Author Topic: Zero Carb Terminology  (Read 5026 times)

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Offline King Salmon

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Zero Carb Terminology
« on: December 03, 2010, 06:49:16 am »
Regarding Paleophil's post(which we can't reply to),I agree to a change in terms.The main reason though,for me,is because ZC is not necessarily raw.A ton of ZC people are cooked ZC.

However,I don't see a reason to add a million other terms.Like,what's the difference between Raw Carnivore,Raw Animal Foods,and Raw Zero Plant Foods? They all sound the same to me.


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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 07:28:40 am »
Regarding Paleophil's post(which we can't reply to),I agree to a change in terms.The main reason though,for me,is because ZC is not necessarily raw.A ton of ZC people are cooked ZC.

However,I don't see a reason to add a million other terms.Like,what's the difference between Raw Carnivore,Raw Animal Foods,and Raw Zero Plant Foods? They all sound the same to me.


Raw carnivore = what a carnivore would eat (meat, fat, organs, fish, shellfish, eggs, insects and some fruits, greens, seaweeds or honey if they are facultative--for example the polar bear will eat kelp or berries if meat/fish is not available). A small amount of raw milk might fit too, but dairy wouldn't be a staple. Technically, some carnivores like the Giant Panda and other bears eat omnivorous or herbivorous diets despite being classified as carnivores due to carnivorous taxonomy and morphology, but for the purposes of human diets people generally mean a diet heavy in animal flesh, with plant foods seen as a nonessential, medicinal or very minor aspect.

"When other food is unavailable, polar bears sometimes eat muskox, reindeer, small rodents, seabirds, shellfish, fish, eggs, kelp, berries, ...." http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/where_we_work/arctic/area/species/polarbear/diet/

Raw Animal Foods = meat, fat, organs, fish, shellfish, eggs, insects + dairy can be a staple; generally no or negligible plant foods; I would think that honey could be included; seaweeds are are a sort of combination of plant and animal, so I'm guessing that they're not included; I'm also guessing that fungi are not included, which are neither plants nor animals

Raw Zero Plant Foods = add fungi to RAF and if RAF doesn't include seaweeds, then this would; this term was just recently invented at this forum, I think, so I doubt that many are using it


ZC can be "raw ZC" and it still seems to be popular, probably because it only requires two letters, so I wasn't able to persuade folks to bury the term here. It's a confusing term because there's no possible way to literally eat zero carbs (which prominent ZCers acknowledge) and an increasing number of folks who call themselves ZCers eat milk and carb-containing organs, which technically is a contradiction.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline King Salmon

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 11:34:43 am »
Thanks Phil.But what's Raw Meat No Dairy/No Lactose called? One reason I actually like the term ZC is because it's a great term for those who are on a "Candida Diet".It takes out all the sugars(from fruits,dairy or honey).That's my perception of it anyway.
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Offline Nation

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 11:37:44 am »
I don't like your definition of Raw Carnivore. If someone eats fruit etc, he is omnivore. Your definition of carnivore is basically paleo omnivore.


Offline Nation

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 11:41:11 am »
Thanks Phil.But what's Raw Meat No Dairy/No Lactose called? One reason I actually like the term ZC is because it's a great term for those who are on a "Candida Diet".It takes out all the sugars(from fruits,dairy or honey).That's my perception of it anyway.

I'm on that diet as well, i guess we need to come up with our own name. How about Raw Meat-Organ diet? There can't be any confusion with that name.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 04:19:12 pm »
I don't like your definition of Raw Carnivore. If someone eats fruit etc, he is omnivore. Your definition of carnivore is basically paleo omnivore. 
Exactly.
That's why there is omnivorous raw paleo diet and carnivorous one.
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Offline King Salmon

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 11:58:42 pm »
I'm on that diet as well, i guess we need to come up with our own name. How about Raw Meat-Organ diet? There can't be any confusion with that name.

Yes,I agree.The only thing is,is that I also eat cucumbers.So,I'm going to have to stick to RVLC 8)
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Offline miles

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2010, 06:29:19 am »
As long as you're a family man.
5-10% off your first purchase at http://www.iherb.com/ with dicount code: KIS978

Offline KD

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2010, 09:46:31 am »
I think phil's definitions are pretty good.

I personally think RAF functions well for all..everything else seems to be some sort of bragging rights..obviously people arn't out in some utopian nature, so even accepting humans were/are carnivores, it doesn't seem to be a dramatic reinterpretation of any of these terms to eat some fungus, seaweed or the occasional piece of fruit or vegetable that have known nutrients that might be absent in domesticated diets. If someone wants to hold on to some kind of handle over that very minor diet 'flexibility' then I would guess they would expect to be grouped endlessly into others variable definitions in line with whatever trends. RVAF would be the other type of diet by my definition being very liberal in regards to fruit and vegetables/fiber and fat intake etc...

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 04:34:17 am »
Thanks, KD. I added some more explanation to the definitions that I hope will help.

I don't like your definition of Raw Carnivore. If someone eats fruit etc, he is omnivore. Your definition of carnivore is basically paleo omnivore.
Some facultative carnivores also eat fruits, such as wolves, coyotes, etc.

I'm on that diet as well, i guess we need to come up with our own name. How about Raw Meat-Organ diet? There can't be any confusion with that name.
If you're eating nothing but raw meat and organs that would qualify as raw obligate carnivore, raw animal foods and raw zero plant foods. Raw Meat-Organ diet would be even more specific. I'll add it to the list.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2010, 04:39:46 am »
What about strict raw organ-meats diet without any muscle-meats? Is there anybody who follows such a diet? :)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 05:34:42 am »
What about strict raw organ-meats diet without any muscle-meats? Is there anybody who follows such a diet? :)
I used to be like that years ago for a long time, just eating raw organ-meats and no muscle-meats, but also raw plant foods, of course. I would eat raw heart, though, which is a kind of muscle-meat, really when one thinks about it.

Raw organ-meats are known to speed up health-recovery on a RVAF diet, according to reports from many RVAFers, and raw organ-meats are also cheaper than muscle-meats as no SAD-eater wants them, which was why I went in for that kind of diet at the time.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2010, 02:43:15 pm »
I like the organ-meats very much, but...
I realized that when I ate too much of them I started to crave muscle-meats.
And when I eat to much of muscle-meats I start to crave organ-meats.  :)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline SteakNchop

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2010, 06:08:39 pm »
I like the organ-meats very much, but...
I realized that when I ate too much of them I started to crave muscle-meats.
And when I eat to much of muscle-meats I start to crave organ-meats.  :)
Logical. O0

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 07:00:33 am »
A minor update: some folks at the Dirty Carnivore forum reported that the ZIOH forum is apparently done with its milk and ice cream experiments and they are apparently back to their original definition of ZC as excluding milk and milk-containing products like yoghurt.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2011, 04:20:32 am »
A minor update: some folks at the Dirty Carnivore forum reported that the ZIOH forum is apparently done with its milk and ice cream experiments and they are apparently back to their original definition of ZC as excluding milk and milk-containing products like yoghurt.

Oh, yes, I was reading. Since dairy fell out of favor with the Leader, it is now shunned again!

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2011, 04:34:54 am »
Presumably they're still OK with butter as always, yes?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Ioanna

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2011, 06:39:04 am »
I like the organ-meats very much, but...
I realized that when I ate too much of them I started to crave muscle-meats.
And when I eat to much of muscle-meats I start to crave organ-meats.  :)

me too! :D

Offline wodgina

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2011, 07:34:43 pm »
Oh, yes, I was reading. Since dairy fell out of favor with the Leader, it is now shunned again!

 does he do the site to get laid? hookups?

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Offline klowcarb

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Re: Zero Carb Terminology
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2011, 07:44:30 pm »
Presumably they're still OK with butter as always, yes?

Oh, early on when I was using butter liberally, Dear Leader was against it--he was "suspicious" of butter. No, muscle meat only is the name of the game there. So sad and although I am grateful that I found ZIOH because I realized ZC was possible, I wasted time on the muscle meat only thing and thankfully got into paleo and realized that a true ZC diet needs organ meats, eggs and grassfed fats.