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Raw Paleo Diet Gallery => Display Your Culinary Creations => Topic started by: TylerDurden on August 06, 2008, 10:15:32 pm

Title: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on August 06, 2008, 10:15:32 pm
High-Meat Preparation Notes:-


First get hold of a properly sealable container(eg:- vacuum-jar/sealable plastic box/Bell Jar etc.). Fill half of the box with the raw meats you want to age - make sure to leave 50% of the box unfilled, so as to ensure that there is enough air/oxygen for the bacteria - it's a very bad idea not to leave enough (fresh)air for the bacteria to work on. Then place the high-meat container in the fridge. Make sure to take the container out and air the box outside , at least once every 1 to 3 days for a few minutes, depending on your whim - properly airing the meats outside helps to refresh the air within the box, allowing the bacteria to continue their work, and the more frequently you air it, the faster it ripens - don't air it inside the house as that will stink out the place. Oh, and don't forget to cut up the fresh, raw meats into  mouthful-sized pieces before you start using it for "high-meat" - otherwise, it's a rather messy business to cut it all up once it's reached the "high-meat" stage - though, I suppose, one can wait, instead, until it eventually becomes liquid, where one just needs a spoon.

Generally speaking, if the fridge is not at too cold a setting, and if the high-meat container is aired frequently, then it's usually recommended to wait c.1  month before trying it. I find that I get the beneficial effects from the high-meat within c.2-3 weeks after storing it, usually once the outer surface of the aged ,raw meats has become slimy enough, but with the rest of the meat still being quite solid enough to be picked up by a fork - I generally don't like the texture of "high-meat" once it becomes too liquidy. Though, there are some who prefer aging the "high-meat" for several months.

A few people wish to speed up the process by storing the "high-meat" container outside the fridge in the open air, but this is fraught with difficulty as flies are fiendishly clever at laying their almost unnoticeable eggs around the lid, and these can then so easily drop in. It's been suggested by one member of the group that the container in question should be sealed within two separate black bin-bags so as to deter the flies. Plus, when I left high-meat outside, it seemed more likely to go dry, and dried out high-meat is useless re getting the boosts in mood etc.

(I should also mention that I personally only got the fullest benefit from "high-meat" once I started eating c. two (cubic-inch-sized?)chunks of "high-meat" each day, and that the effects, oddly, seemed to only start being noticed after c.12-24 hours. Obviously, though, everyone is different, in this regard).

"High-meat" can be made from pretty much any raw-animal-food-source. The Eskimoes used to age raw fish in this way, the Chinese would age their raw eggs for decades, the French often age their raw cheeses until they become very stinky etc.. I personally found most "high-meats" versions to be a problem for me(especially any "high-meat"-muscle-meats), with the exception of aged kidney, aged tongue, and especially aged ox/beef heart - I use the latter most of the time, for reasons of taste and convenience. I would strongly recommend that people experiment with a wide variety of "high-meats" before they find the one that is least appalling re taste.

 Virtually everyone finds "high-meat" a problem at first, re taste, due to past conditioning. My own solution, at the start, was to cut the meats up into very tiny slivers  so that I could just swallow them very quickly without having to endure the taste for long. I'd then follow up each mouthful with a big gulp of alkaline (spring) mineral-water in order to blot out the after-taste. Naturally, over a certain length of time, I got used to the taste and no longer need to cut up the meat into such tiny slices or chase each piece with water, and, nowadays, I even relish the rather acidic taste of some kinds of "high-meat", viewing it as a useful alternative to smelly raw cheeses(I happen to be allergic to raw dairy).

Naturally, there are always going to be some  who feel they won't ever be able to get used to such fare, so I would strongly recommend that such people buy "EM" products, instead, or, (powerful) probiotic supplements. "EM" stands for effective microorganisms. However, I'm sceptical re the efficacy of the latter two, by comparison to "high-meat", and view them as substitutes only - besides, "EM" products are rather expensive and difficult to prepare, whereas "high-meat" is relatively easy to make.

The benefits of the extra bacteria from "high-meat" include better digestion, and increased concentration, energy-levels and improvement in mood. Here's a standard news-report re a study describing  how  bacteria help improve one's mood:-


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1547346/Getting-dirty-could-prevent-depression.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1547346/Getting-dirty-could-prevent-depression.html)






Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: boxcarguy07 on August 06, 2008, 10:40:02 pm
Now here's a question...
is there a distinct advantage to high meat over other fermented foods such as pickles, sauerkraut, etc.? (providing they are unheated and one is not on an all-meat diet)

I've just started eating sauerkraut and pickles as they are supposed to contain live enzymes and beneficial probiotics, and I'm wondering if high meat is truly superior
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Satya on August 06, 2008, 10:45:59 pm
Thanks, Tyler.  How about a picture of some high meat?

Keith, pickles are anaerobic lactofermented foods, high meat is an aerobic fermentation.  You are supposed to get air to the meat (Tyler would know more on the particulars, as I have not tried high meat yet).  So different bacteria are involved (and that is the extent of my knowledge on the subject).  And believe me, there ain't much info out there on high meat, so the more input we have from our rpd community, the better!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: boxcarguy07 on August 06, 2008, 10:52:06 pm
You're sure right about there not being that much info!

I've tried searching quite a few times, and I always find message boards talking about some show where they showed people eating raw meat and high meat and everyone is just talking about how disgusting and unsanitary and unhealthy it is  :D

But no real info  :'(
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on August 06, 2008, 10:58:45 pm
Now here's a question...
is there a distinct advantage to high meat over other fermented foods such as pickles, sauerkraut, etc.? (providing they are unheated and one is not on an all-meat diet)

I've just started eating sauerkraut and pickles as they are supposed to contain live enzymes and beneficial probiotics, and I'm wondering if high meat is truly superior

I think the idea is that different types of fermented foods will provide different types of useful bacteria for the gut. I, for example, would not benefit one bit from bacteria designed to digest raw dairy better.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on August 06, 2008, 11:04:09 pm
Thanks, Tyler.  How about a picture of some high meat?

Keith, pickles are anaerobic lactofermented foods, high meat is an aerobic fermentation.  You are supposed to get air to the meat (Tyler would know more on the particulars, as I have not tried high meat yet).  So different bacteria are involved (and that is the extent of my knowledge on the subject).  And believe me, there ain't much info out there on high meat, so the more input we have from our rpd community, the better!


I don't have anything good enough to take a decent picture and anyway I'm not in a high-meat phase right now. Here's a picture of a rotten-fish dish from Thailand which will have to do for now:-

http://eatingasia.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/pla_raa_1.jpg

(it's called "bplaa raa"(means rotting fish in thai language).

Here's a picture of aged "century eggs":-

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Sliced_century_egg_by_.Florian.jpg/800px-Sliced_century_egg_by_.Florian.jpg

(Please can someone do something about this annoying thing that happens where if you try to click the send button it states that someone's already posted before - I've lost data before because of this and I loathe having to repost everything).
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoKyle on August 07, 2008, 07:39:06 am
(http://)(http://)
(Before/after) This is 1 week old high meat (done outside the refrigerator) the temps were pretty warm so it is nice and high. I started with 2lbs of round roast. I put it in a gallon canning jar and aired it 2-3 times a day tasting the meat as I went. Personally I don't mind the muscle meat, I can actually chew it. I need to try the organs...though I tend to eat those up to fast to make high.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Satya on August 07, 2008, 08:14:19 am
Hey, thanks Dude!  Show it again over time, if you get the chance.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: boxcarguy07 on August 07, 2008, 08:27:52 am
Is it best to use less fatty meat when making high meat, or does it not matter?
Round cuts are usually pretty lean, and organs typically don't have much fat.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: xylothrill on August 07, 2008, 04:04:42 pm
Is it best to use less fatty meat when making high meat, or does it not matter?
Round cuts are usually pretty lean, and organs typically don't have much fat.


It'd probably be better to use lean as animal fat doesn't seem to ever rot. I've had suet in the fridge for lengthy times and the meat on it will get high but the fat stays the same.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: wodgina on August 07, 2008, 05:39:00 pm



It'd probably be better to use lean as animal fat doesn't seem to ever rot. I've had suet in the fridge for lengthy times and the meat on it will get high but the fat stays the same.
Thats weird, my suet turns green in about 3 days,Is the meat on your suet from kidneys  Craig?
My suet comes with traces of kidney on it. No actual muscle meat.
I freeze most of my suet straight away because of this.
Muscle meat left in my fridge will last 7+ days.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: xylothrill on August 07, 2008, 05:53:42 pm
Thats weird, my suet turns green in about 3 days,Is the meat on your suet from kidneys  Craig?
My suet comes with traces of kidney on it. No actual muscle meat.
I freeze most of my suet straight away because of this.
Muscle meat left in my fridge will last 7+ days.

I think it's kidney suet. Not 100% sure. It does have some traces of tissue attached. When I cut it into pieces, I've noticed the fat with little tissue will last almost forever in the fridge without stinking the whole place up though it does stink a wee bit. I attributed that to the small amounts of connective tissue that holds the fat chunks together.  If I leave the whole chunk in there, with pieces of tissue, it gets very smelly and high after a while.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: rawlion on August 07, 2008, 07:05:24 pm
High meat by Aajonus:

"Place 1 volume pint of raw meat, chopped into bite sized pieces, into a glass quart jar: equal air and meat space. Place Ball jar lid on jar tightly and place in refrigerator. I suggest three jars be prepared; one with raw meat, one with natural raw fowl and one with ocean wild caught raw fish. Every 3-4 days take the jar outdoors, completely remove lids and wave the jars in the air to exchange the air inside the jars. Return lids to jars, tighten and return to refrigeration. After 4 weeks, you may begin to eat one marble sized piece once or twice every week. There are approximately 17 stages of bacterial developments. Airing the meat is required to progress the bacteria through the stages....."

I would only add ENJOY!

Yuri
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: stevesurv on August 08, 2008, 09:48:23 am
Is there a real difference between high meat made from frozen or fresh meat besides flavor?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on August 08, 2008, 04:51:38 pm
Is there a real difference between high meat made from frozen or fresh meat besides flavor?

I've tried using frozen meat as a starter for high-meat and it just didn't seem to work.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: stevesurv on August 08, 2008, 06:25:23 pm
I've tried using frozen meat as a starter for high-meat and it just didn't seem to work.

Well what do you mean by that?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on August 08, 2008, 09:47:30 pm
Well what do you mean by that?

I can't remember exactly. This was years ago, when I first started to experiment with high-meat. It just didn't seem to provide the same benefits re boosted concentration/energy-levels etc. as "normal" high-meat. Try it, anyway, if you feel like it.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Neone on September 11, 2009, 06:15:42 am
I use mason jars and bison heart. Chunk up the heart and fill the jar half full. I leave mine on the bench and air it out once a day (although i forget to some days). If you're worried about fly eggs (which i havent had a problem with yet) then put some wax paper or something elastic banded around the lid. It only takes a few days and its starting to get pretty high. I like this way because i (a) dont have a fridge (b) it only takes a few days instead of a month.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: yon yonson on September 14, 2009, 08:02:09 am
I use mason jars and bison heart. Chunk up the heart and fill the jar half full. I leave mine on the bench and air it out once a day (although i forget to some days). If you're worried about fly eggs (which i havent had a problem with yet) then put some wax paper or something elastic banded around the lid. It only takes a few days and its starting to get pretty high. I like this way because i (a) dont have a fridge (b) it only takes a few days instead of a month.
after seeing this i thought i'd give it a try. i used the same exact proceder: cut up bison heart and put it in a mason jar outside the fridge. i didnt not put it in extra bags though and don't have any maggots so far. it's been 3 days and its getting pretty high. i tried a piece today and it was actually pretty good. didn't smell as rotten as i thought it would, it's more complicated smell. also, i've noticed little bubbles in the juices, i assume that's a good sign of fermentation. anyways, i recommend this method. thanks neone!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on October 15, 2009, 06:25:11 am
High-Meat Preparation Notes:-

First get hold of a properly sealable container(eg:- vacuum-jar/sealable plastic box/Bell Jar etc.). Fill half of the box with the raw meats you want to age - make sure to leave 50% of the box unfilled, so as to ensure that there is enough air/oxygen for the bacteria - it's a very bad idea not to leave enough (fresh)air for the bacteria to work on. Then place the high-meat container in the fridge. Make sure to take the container out and air the box outside , at least once every 1 to 3 days for a few minutes, ...


I'm no expert on this stuff, but based on what I've been reading, I'm not sure that a sealable plastic box or vacuum-sealable containers are such a good idea. It sounds like the traditional Inuit containers were leaky and that this was a good thing. Now that more of them are using sealable plastic, botulism has become a problem, according to reports like the one below. The problem is, a loose top will likely result in a stinky fridge, right? Seems like a catch-22 for us who don't have a cellar that no one will mind if we stink it up. Botulism poisoning is rare, but I remember my high school biology teacher saying that it's one of the most potent organic toxins on earth.

Quote
Traditional "stink" foods such as fermented salmon eggs (stink eggs) or salmon heads (stink heads) are prepared by burial in moss-lined pits or barrels in the ground. Nelson (1971) described the process he observed during a visit to the coastal villages of northwest Alaska in 1878-1881: "In the district between the Yukon and Kuskokwim, the heads of king salmon, taken in the summer, are placed in small pits in the ground surrounded by straw and covered with turf. They are kept there during the summer and in the autumn have decayed until even the bones have become the same consistency as the general mass. They are taken out and kneaded in a wooden tray until they form a pasty compound and are eaten as a favorite dish by some of the people."

The process described by Nelson has changed somewhat. Now, fermentation is usually carried out in either a barrel, a plastic or glass jar, or a plastic bag. These containers increase the risk of botulism toxin formation because most can be easily sealed, thereby increasing the likelihood of anaerobic conditions. Some foods are fermented in a seal skin or fish skin bag or "poke" which is either buried or hung up. If salmon eggs are fermented in this manner, they can be left until they dry out somewhat and form a "cheese" which is firm on the outside and soft in the center.

Toxin production is also temperature dependent, and is less likely to occur at the lower temperatures used during traditional fermentation. However, fermentation now may be done indoors, or in a container above ground and in the sun. These methods involve warmer temperatures which make fermentation more rapid and production of botulism toxin more likely.

Botulism in Alaska: A Guide for Physicians and Health Care Providers - 1998 Update
[url]http://www.epi.alaska.gov/pubs/botulism/bot_03.htm[/url]
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on October 15, 2009, 05:32:50 pm
I'm no expert on this stuff, but based on what I've been reading, I'm not sure that a sealable plastic box or vacuum-sealable containers are such a good idea. It sounds like the traditional Inuit containers were leaky and that this was a good thing. Now that more of them are using sealable plastic, botulism has become a problem, according to reports like the one below. The problem is, a loose top will likely result in a stinky fridge, right? Seems like a catch-22 for us who don't have a cellar that no one will mind if we stink it up. Botulism poisoning is rare, but I remember my high school biology teacher saying that it's one of the most potent organic toxins on earth.


I don't think it matters. The main point is to aerate the container fully for a few minutes at least every 3 or 4 days, and people like me actually prefer aerating the meats once a day. The bacteria only need a certain amount of air, which just needs refreshing once in a while.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on October 16, 2009, 07:20:38 am
I don't think it matters. The main point is to aerate the container fully for a few minutes at least every 3 or 4 days, and people like me actually prefer aerating the meats once a day. The bacteria only need a certain amount of air, which just needs refreshing once in a while.
Well it matters for people like me who tend to forget about things and could easily leave it in the fridge for a week before remembering. :D Surely I'm not the only one with a bad memory from years on a SAD?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: yon yonson on October 20, 2009, 10:20:47 pm
Question:i've got a jar of high meat going right now but i want to make some more. can i just add some fresh meat into the same jar? or is it recommended to start a new batch? i would think it'd be fine to just add some fresh meat into the old one... especially if it's a good batch (then the high meat can inoculate the fresh meat). suggestions?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Hannibal on October 21, 2009, 12:21:38 am
I don't think it matters. The main point is to aerate the container fully for a few minutes at least every 3 or 4 days, and people like me actually prefer aerating the meats once a day. The bacteria only need a certain amount of air, which just needs refreshing once in a while.
But if meat is aging in some warm temperatures (20-30 degrees C) one has to aerate it much more often
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: RawZi on October 21, 2009, 03:42:47 am
    I do it twice a day. 
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on October 21, 2009, 04:19:49 pm
Question:i've got a jar of high meat going right now but i want to make some more. can i just add some fresh meat into the same jar? or is it recommended to start a new batch? i would think it'd be fine to just add some fresh meat into the old one... especially if it's a good batch (then the high meat can inoculate the fresh meat). suggestions?

Sure, i did that all the time when I was storing high-meat outside.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Hannibal on October 21, 2009, 04:48:57 pm
I still don't know what to think about botulism. I've eaten so many high meats that were quite old and sometimes not aired for a longer period of time and I haven't experienced any negative symptoms of botulism. But what about those Alaskan people that supposedly got infected with botulinum toxins? They must have done sth really wrong.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on October 21, 2009, 05:55:52 pm
I still don't know what to think about botulism. I've eaten so many high meats that were quite old and sometimes not aired for a longer period of time and I haven't experienced any negative symptoms of botulism. But what about those Alaskan people that supposedly got infected with botulinum toxins? They must have done sth really wrong.

I think it's more to do with combining cooked with raw or eating aged, cooked meats, along with the fact that people on cooked diets have compromised immune-systems and extreme allergenic response to bacteria and foodstuffs. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of deaths from food-poisoning/botulinism come from very old or very young   or people who are already very ill.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Hannibal on October 21, 2009, 07:00:38 pm
I think it's more to do with combining cooked with raw or eating aged, cooked meats, along with the fact that people on cooked diets have compromised immune-systems and extreme allergenic response to bacteria and foodstuffs. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of deaths from food-poisoning/botulinism come from very old or very young  or people, or people who are already ill.
Generally speaking Inuit people eat SAD or something like that and only occasionally try sth traditional. They hate when they are called Eskimos, because it means people who eat raw meat. They are opportunistic.
As you said many times high meats are for those who are eating rawpaleo for about a year, not for those who eat raw occasionally.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: djr_81 on November 09, 2009, 08:36:52 am
I've got a couple Mason/Bell jars going right now.
My first jar is ~8 1/2 weeks old right now. The meat has a strong smell to it & little juice. It just tastes over-aged when you eat it but it has given me somewhat of an energy boost, both mental and physical, when I eat it.
My other three jars (started as two gallon sized mason jars but I swapped containers during the process, they're 6 1/2 weeks old now) more closely resemble what I've read on high meats. Quite a bit of liquid in the jar & slimy meat. I've noted no bubbles/effervescence as some others have noted. The meat has a more muddled flavor to it but it's not horrible. The smell is also different than the older high meat, a bit more acidic.

Now, a quick question for those of you with enough high meat preparation under your belts;
I opened the jars this evening to air them out and two of the three had an audible pop when opened. The jar that didn't pop was 1/3 full as opposed to the half of the other two. I still noted no bubbling in the jars though.
This was the third day since the last airing whereas I normally air after one or two days. All jars are refrigerated.
Do I have anything to be terribly concerned about?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on November 09, 2009, 09:44:19 am
I think it's more to do with combining cooked with raw or eating aged, cooked meats, along with the fact that people on cooked diets have compromised immune-systems and extreme allergenic response to bacteria and foodstuffs. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of deaths from food-poisoning/botulinism come from very old or very young  or people, or people who are already ill.
So if one has a system compromised by a past cooked diet, should one then wait until it's relatively healed before eating high meats?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on November 09, 2009, 10:21:01 pm
So if one has a system compromised by a past cooked diet, should one then wait until it's relatively healed before eating high meats?

That's one of the reasons Primal Dieters are advised to wait 1 year before trying high-meat. I however found that aged, raw meats(only aged for a few days) worked fine for me at the start of this diet, so I wish I'd tried high-meat at the start instead of 3 years later.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on November 10, 2009, 08:11:28 am
I got curious and ate my first chunk of high meat last night before it's truly high. Didn't notice anything, but that's probably because it was only one chunk and not really high yet.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: djr_81 on November 10, 2009, 08:28:14 am
How long's it been culturing Phil?
I think the first truly noticeable effects from mine took 4-5 weeks, the smell was sooner though.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on November 10, 2009, 09:55:31 am
I didn't note the start date, but I would say three and a half weeks or so.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Hannibal on November 10, 2009, 11:18:02 pm
My horse meat after 3 or 4 weeks has still got pleasant flavour; horse meat is different from other kinds of muscle-meats that I aged
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: yon yonson on December 12, 2009, 09:22:16 am
i got my camera out today so i thought i'd add a high meat pic. i think this is beef brisket. i think it's been about a month now. it's got a little bit of an aged cheesy taste. actually pretty tasty. i've been airing it every day. those chunks are a little less than an inch square

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6974/food001l.jpg)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Hannibal on December 12, 2009, 04:44:52 pm
yon yonson - it's not real high-meat ;)
this is -
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9697/img467311.jpg)
it was in april 2009 - about 4 months old deboned lamb thigh, aging in the temperature of 15-20 degrees C
it was really high  ;D
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: goodsamaritan on December 12, 2009, 09:24:21 pm
Can you tell us how different in taste and effect a 4 month old high meat is to a 1 month old high meat?

And can't we age the meat any faster?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Hannibal on December 12, 2009, 09:47:51 pm
Can you tell us how different in taste and effect a 4 month old high meat is to a 1 month old high meat?
It depends on the temperature of the aging. The higher the temperature the faster the aging. The fastest is above 25 degrees C.
That one was really high - you could only eat a little bit, because the taste was so strong.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: yon yonson on December 13, 2009, 12:29:41 am
man, yeah that's way higher than mine. i've never aged anything for that long because i always end up eating it too fast. im gonna have to try that. did you age it outside the fridge? how often did you air it?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Hannibal on December 13, 2009, 02:16:06 am
did you age it outside the fridge? how often did you air it?
I aged it in a cellar, but there was about 15-18 degrees C; I live in a flat in an apartment building, so there is common cellar
I aired it once or twice a day.
It wasn't my oldest high-meat. I had got over a half a year old one - it was extra high, pungent.
After I got used to them the meat that is several weeks old is really fresh for me. ;)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: raw on January 20, 2010, 01:22:17 pm
i give my toddler high meat (aged tongue, heart from beef) with blended fresh meat for the 1st time today. he doesn't get the difference. i give that to my husband too with blended meat, he doesn't know. if i blend high meat, than that will kill all the beneficial organisms or not? i need to know. i also need to know that if high meat stop the muscle cramps, increase the blood circulations? i'm suffering with these problems now. if high meat can stop the nerve pain? i see my toddler's following strict raw paleo  except he loves too much dairy (always cheese and sour yogurt). i see he passes out of gas and stool is very stinky. i think it's not very normal for paleo dieters. my chinese doc says he's dealing with worms and that's causing him gas. i need your advise. thanks.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: van on January 20, 2010, 01:55:59 pm
my advice with worms is to get a stool test.  otherwise you'll always wonder and the mental energy is draining.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: raw-al on March 09, 2010, 06:56:35 am
Is there any special way or time to eat the high meat? I don't find the taste that bad. Smell is awesome! I have tried my beef and fish (haddock that is a month old. I plan to eat it daily for awhile. I do not really notice the "high" effect.

My neighbour from Tibet used to eat high meat that was stored in a sheep's stomach. He says is was a real treat'.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: KD on March 22, 2010, 03:28:07 am
There was a comment in here about high meats from frozen meats.

It seems like alot of folks are eating frozen meats, and also speak about high meat, so are people finding they can make true high meat from their frozen stuff, or are they just talking about meat that has sat open in the fridge a bit?

edit: also, I have 2 small bell jars that I've been using, but also some glass jars with plastic top that I would also like to use, is the plastic problematic in any way?


Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: ontheroadnyc on May 30, 2010, 04:36:27 pm
In order to speed things up, what about keeping the jar sealed but just NOT in the fridge?  Doesn't bacteria like warmth to grow?  And you won't get flies laying eggs because the jar is sealed.  I'm kind of chompin' at the bit to get my meat "high".

FYI, I've recently been turned onto Aajonus Vonderplanitz' Primal Diet so it's so cool to have found this forum.  Sometimes I feel like someone's going to lock me up in a loony bin for eating all this raw meat...especially chicken.  And I just love raw dairy.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on May 30, 2010, 05:34:55 pm
Re high-meat outside the fridge:- even if it's sealed, you're goling to have a problem. Flies live laying their eggs around the surface of the containers so that whenever you open a container's lid, a few eggs will fall in every so often and you won't often notice them as they're so small. Thne the eggs become wriggling live maggots and that's that.

People storing high-meat outside the fridge usually use a plastic container surrounded by 2 large plastic bin-bags. That usually solves the problem.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: RawZi on May 30, 2010, 08:00:24 pm
I have 2 small bell jars that I've been using, but also some glass jars with plastic top that I would also like to use, is the plastic problematic in any way?

    I've made it with glass jars with plastic tops. The meat came out fine.  The top got smelly.  Plastic absorbs a lot of stuff.  I prefer not to use plastic; because I like using the plastic tops for my milk.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: KD on May 30, 2010, 11:32:55 pm
Thanks, I've since acquired more ball jars so that hasn't been an issue.

-

The fly thing is confusing because whenever I air my jars they attract massive amounts of flys and other bugs, its unavoidable. I wonder how long it takes to lay eggs?

-
how many people here are consuming meat >2-3 mo? I've noticed it to be extremely different.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on May 31, 2010, 01:19:02 am

how many people here are consuming meat >2-3 mo? I've noticed it to be extremely different.

how so?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on May 31, 2010, 01:38:08 am
I've noticed  a drop in effect of high-meat after many months of using it. I think the main effect results from bacteria stimulating the immune-system so that it wears out after a while.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: KD on May 31, 2010, 01:39:33 am
how so?

Well, for starters it doesn't seem to break down completely until about 9+ weeks. Prior to that you could still probably cut with a knife if you had to.

I've sort of warmed up to the stuff prior to that as far as taste, and much distress can be avoided just by tearing into even smaller pieces chewing with back teeth and avoiding the tongue as much as possible. once it goes past this point it is extremely intense taste and smell wise I find. I'd say pretty close or worse than coprophagia.

I also had some pretty nasty intestinal symptoms afterward as well, which could have been something else entirely, was short lived, and indeed felt 120% percent better since then. (puked up a bunch of clear gelatinous matter). So I wonder if it takes that long for the bacteria to mature fully or in quantity, as I've never experienced any other effect that I can surely pin down to the high meats, although I suspect they've been helpful with digestion improving an so forth. I did experience some euphoria, but I don't want to relive the experience just yet, even if it was possibly overall productive. For the time being I'm back to the other batch which is a few weeks younger, but pretty soon they'll be even further gone of course.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on May 31, 2010, 01:43:01 am
KD or anyone, would you post some progressive photos of your high meat?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: KD on May 31, 2010, 01:45:13 am
I've noticed  a drop in effect of high-meat after many months of using it. I think the main effect results from bacteria stimulating the immune-system so that it wears out after a while.

you mean once the immune system is healthy one doesn't experience as many positives from high meat? or that if the meat itself gets really old it doesn't stimulate as well?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on May 31, 2010, 01:47:58 am
you mean once the immune system is healthy one doesn't experience as many positives from high meat? or that if the meat itself gets really old it doesn't stimulate as well?

nO, I merely mean that after continuous boosting of the immune-system, the body gets somehow used to the high-meat/bacteria.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: KD on May 31, 2010, 01:56:39 am
nO, I merely mean that after continuous boosting of the immune-system, the body gets somehow used to the high-meat/bacteria.

to me this reads like the first question, so i'm still confused. Are you saying you experience more noticeable effects (actually feeling high or other improvements) once you have healed, or less from getting used to it.

I'm trying to figure out why I don't seem to have any noticeable effects, unless i'm still misinterpreting it sounds like this means my immune system doesn't need the boost/stimulation whearas I think in traditional cultures, they might have more mood alteration due to having healthier/less sterile guts.

KD or anyone, would you post some progressive photos of your high meat?

I don't have progressive shots, but i'll try to shoot what I have soon. (lent out my camera)

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on May 31, 2010, 05:53:50 pm
to me this reads like the first question, so i'm still confused. Are you saying you experience more noticeable effects (actually feeling high or other improvements) once you have healed, or less from getting used to it.

I mean I get less benefit after I get used to it. This takes several months, though. So, I  do high-meat in stages of 3-4 months at a time, with 2-3 months inbetween.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: KD on June 02, 2010, 04:09:27 am
KD or anyone, would you post some progressive photos of your high meat?

ok, these are not progressive and are all totally different containers shot on the same day (today). Basically you can see that the one that is over 2 months, is still basically not altogether different looking than aged meat. of course the taste is totally different, but tolerable. Although the other batch I have at 74 days I think starting getting nastier alot sooner and is indescribably more intense. It could be because it was buffalo, and the other two are chuck. The 2 pieces are the size I usually eat. If I was smarter I would have cut alot smaller as I usually have to pull this apart into thirds or quarters. I guess that is another difference you can't see visually with the second batch, it just sort of pulls apart and coats you hands with gunk. fun.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on June 02, 2010, 07:14:15 am
thank you KD!!

the 64 day photos look dry, but you're saying they are not? 

now i want to know what they smell like :)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: KD on June 02, 2010, 10:01:43 am
it was never dried but by dry I assume you mean not slug-y wet like the other. hmm. Its moist and tacky for sure, very brittle. I can't say exactly, but I know the first batch had liquid in it much earlier on, I'd say by 5 weeks. for some reason the pic makes it more normal looking than it is, but I don't know what is with this 2nd batch as far as not breaking down quickly, I know none of it was ever frozen to my knowledge. You can see the bits of fat in it so maybe that effects things. I can assure you it smells terrible. I tried opening it inside after I had already opened it up outside and aired it out, bad idea. I'm trying to think of a way to describe the smell especially on the oldest batch and can't make any comparison to anything. visceral.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on June 02, 2010, 11:35:21 am
I can assure you it smells terrible. I tried opening it inside after I had already opened it up outside and aired it out, bad idea.

lol, i'll take your word on that. thanks for posting!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: ontheroadnyc on June 19, 2010, 04:12:30 am
I figured out a quicker high meat technique that doesn't require weeks in the fridge.  I took the quart sized mason jar half-filled with meat and simply placed it in a 4.2 quart "clickclack" container which is airtight.  It only took 24-72 hours for the meat to turn colors and funky smelling.

I usually leave the mason jar/clickclack setup out of the fridge for 24 hours and then put the mason jar in the fridge to slow down the growth as it were.

I've had no problem whatsoever with flies.

Mason Jar inside Click Clack container:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4712051687_b277369757.jpg

Here's an amazon link for the Click Clack container.  I purchased it at Gracious Home a small department store near where I work in NYC.
http://www.amazon.com/ClickClack-303502-Airtight-Polystyrene-Canister/dp/B0023NVIN0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1276890756&sr=8-4

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: KD on June 19, 2010, 05:26:08 am
It only took 24-72 hours for the meat to turn colors and funky smelling.
meat usually starts to turn and smell fairly quickly regardless...the advantage (I assume) to being outside of the fridge/house is with either with a more traditional container like animal skin, which were left outside for very long periods and did not need to be aerated due to the container, or some changes with sun and temperature. Its not totally uncommon I think to leave the container in the kitchen, just not very practical and you'd have to bring it outside to air it anyway. Nice system from minimizing contamination from bugs though, let us know how long it takes to turn to high-meat this way. It could also be growing bad bacteria without the needed exposure per acceleration through heat resulting in smell, and possibly danger. How often are you airing it out within that period?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: ontheroadnyc on June 19, 2010, 07:24:23 am
Hey KD, I air the meat at least once every 24 hours while aging it outside the fridge.  Say more about the "bad" bacteria you mentioned.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: KD on June 19, 2010, 07:59:38 am
Well, I have no experience with what you are doing so I can't say exactly. 24 hr might be plenty...or it might not be. I was more concerned you were leaving it outside for extended periods in summer heat and sun in a contained jar. In this thread you can see some mention of temperature and airing more frequently with higher temp, also there are pics to compare. The only thing I know is that the meat needs a certain amount of exposure to oxygen and that it might be altered with heat/sun. Its just like with regular meats: even in the fridge a complete lack of oxygen can be bad news for extended periods. I mean, my high-meat smells and tastes terrible, but I've had just meat I've left in plastic or glass in the fridge that have tasted way more toxic. Its hard to say what is good or bad with bacteria, but the standard is that anaerobic bacteria at least with meat, is not healthful, and is put at bay or destroyed by proper oxygenation.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on June 19, 2010, 08:16:24 am
Call me paranoid, but I don't trust plastic enough to put high meat in it, even a glass jar of high meat. I don't fully understand why the Inuit started getting dramatically higher rates of botulism and other forms of food poisoning when they started using plastic, and recent info has been coming out about how plastic is much more toxic than most people realized--especially clear plastics--and I try to keep things simple, so I think I'll pass on this one, thanks.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: RawZi on June 19, 2010, 04:10:53 pm
it was never dried but by dry I assume you mean not slug-y wet like the other. hmm. Its moist and tacky for sure

    I've tried leaving meat out to get a little dry first and then bottling it to make high meat.  It didn't work at all.  I do not recommend it.  It's still edible, barely, and it's not biodegrading even though it should.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Wolf on July 19, 2010, 07:10:20 am
I once bought some raw beef meat that was already in small chunks at the deli in my grocery store, which was probably the commercial grain-fed tortured-cow beef, though I have no idea but I'm pretty sure it was not grass-fed, and I am not sure if it had ever been frozen or not.  I began to eat it raw pretty much as soon as I got into my car after buying it, but then I noticed the meat began to obtain a brownish colour (like the high-meats in the pictures posted here) and also to acquire something of a rotten taste.. and I am now wondering if it had somehow become high-meat?  I don't know how old or for how long it had been sitting out at the grocery store.  I took the meat to be rotten, though, and stopped eating it raw, and instead took it come and tried cooking it to see if that would improve the taste(this was all before I ever found out about raw diets, I just always liked raw meat).. which was a huge mistake because it only made the taste worse and I ended up throwing all the meat away.

is it possible for meat to have become high or at least partially-high meat so fast?  especially if had been sitting out in the open air in the deli for the entire day?  (though kept in cool/refrigerated temperatures)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: ontheroadnyc on July 27, 2010, 04:21:24 am
Help!  I've been having trouble achieving high meat maturation.  I usually cut up some sirloin or london broil, put it in my large glass ball jar, then place that in my clear, air-tight dry food container (see link below) and it usually only takes a 2-3 days for it to get a decent "high" smell and then I put it in the fridge and it continues to age slowly.  But lately I've been doing this for a week and the meat is barely smelly.  I'm wondering if the meat I get has been frozen at one time thereby killing the essential baby bacteria that eventually becomes the "high" in high meat.

I'm buying grass-fed meat from Whole Foods, which they tell me has never been frozen.  Do you think they might be lying?  Has anybody had similar experiences?

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/display-your-culinary-creations/high-meat-recipe-preparation-for-more-advanced-rafers/msg37877/#msg37877
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on July 30, 2010, 09:49:40 pm
Well, all I can say is that the very few times I tried frozen meats for making my high meat, the preparation failed. They got too dry or something.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: raw-al on July 30, 2010, 10:00:41 pm
I am by no means an expert, Tyler but I wonder... the Inuit pretty much ate frozen meat (I am assuming) unless of course they had fresh.

My friend from Tibet says that they simply let the meat dry out and age. Nothing wrong with it drying out. He told me that the best part was when it turned blue.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on July 30, 2010, 10:02:31 pm
Well, the descriptions mention the Inuit eating the frozen meat, ice-crystals and all, so presumably it was usually fresh.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Coatue on September 02, 2010, 12:10:49 pm
Is there an optimal temp to keep the fridge at when making high meat? Also, is there a point where the meat becomes too high? In other words, can you only eat/age it for so long before it can make you sick?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: majormark on September 02, 2010, 03:55:16 pm
^ I think that if you let it get 'too high', eventually, the bacteria will have consumed most of the meat and it would not remain much for you.
The idea of high meat is to consume a food with high bacterial count, but not just the bacteria.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Wolf on September 03, 2010, 03:04:57 pm
Don't some people like high-meat best after it completely liquefies though?  That seems to me like there isn't much of the meat left, lol.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: sabertooth on September 03, 2010, 03:42:58 pm
I compromise by taking a spoon full of liquefied bacterial ravaged meat with a good portion of fresh meat an fat that way I get a large dose of bacteria to help me turn the fresh meat into the most optimal human fuel I have ever lived off of

I don't care for the flavor of liquid rot, but I get past it by gulping it down with a sip of water,(its my medicine)Its never given me any ill effect. Is it possible to get meat too high?

I think av rotted meat for over a year and ate it with aged meat, a raw egg and raw milk; so if that combination hasn't killed him yet then there may not be a limit to the highness of meat as long as its not contaminated.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: needs_and_wants on September 06, 2010, 05:09:03 pm
hey all, ive been preparing a batch now for about a month, my first. I started with organic grassfed but was vacuum packed so probably wet aged a bit before I started it. do ye suppose this is ok? Ive used the out-of-the-fridge method, and aired twice a day, im thinking of trying it but can't be sure its not contaminated. How does one know for sure? Its brown in colour with a slight tint of green, kind of like army colours. I think I remember reading if its green to chuck it out. maybe I should, but i've come this far and would really like to try it. wat do ye think? is it risky? thanks for your help!  :)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on September 06, 2010, 09:18:39 pm
Just try it out and see.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on September 06, 2010, 09:33:29 pm
@needs - why do you air the high meat twice a day?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: needs_and_wants on September 06, 2010, 10:28:50 pm
PaleoPhil, I read it was best to air once/day if aging in higher temps, and thought id do twice/day just to be safe as im a bit apprehensive about the whole thing.

Tyler, I reckon ill give it a shot tomorrow morning then, if you don't hear from me assume the worst :)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on September 06, 2010, 10:55:52 pm
Where did you see that? I'm curious, because I only air once a week and wonder if I'm being too incautious. I think Tyler recommended once every 3 days, but I tended to forget and didn't notice any difference when it had gone a week, so I stuck with once/week and I tend to remember that better.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: needs_and_wants on September 07, 2010, 12:05:16 am
IIRC it was another user on here who mentioned that was the way the went about it themselves, only I cant find the comment now. it wasnt an official recommendation or anything..
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on September 07, 2010, 04:03:31 am
Where did you see that? I'm curious, because I only air once a week and wonder if I'm being too incautious. I think Tyler recommended once every 3 days, but I tended to forget and didn't notice any difference when it had gone a week, so I stuck with once/week and I tend to remember that better.
  Aajonus recommends airing at least once every 3 days. I usually air my high-meat once every day, max 2, as that ensures fewer mistakes re high-meat preparation.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: needs_and_wants on September 07, 2010, 04:52:41 pm
So, I gave it a shot, about a half teaspoon of liquid followed with water, and it seemed fine. I waited about an hour before eating anything else to see how my body reacted but I was grand. It kind of reminded me of aged cheese in a sense, a taste I can see myself becoming quite accustomed to. Happy days, reckon ill try a full teaspoon tomorrow, and maybe a chunk the day after :)

Tyler, do you age in the fridge yourself?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on September 07, 2010, 05:27:06 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: raw-al on September 07, 2010, 10:47:54 pm
What about leaving it uncovered? Say with a screen over it to keep out the flies. Does the stink go away?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on September 08, 2010, 12:26:43 am
What about leaving it uncovered? Say with a screen over it to keep out the flies. Does the stink go away?
No. The flies are fiendishly clever at laying their eggs where no one can see them. You only have to brush 1 or 2 into the meat without realising and it's then fouled with maggots soon after. You need at least 2 plastic bin-bags covering the high-meat and you'd still have to be careful.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on September 19, 2010, 11:12:00 pm
so i tried my first high meat prep by putting just a little bit of cut up meat in a small glass jar in the fridge.  i figured i'd leave it there for a month with airing ever so often. but condensation would appear on the glass, so every day i would wipe this out with a clean towel. after a week of this.. too high maintenance for me, so i just took the cover off and let everything dry out.  now it's been a week uncovered. i wanted to taste it, and ended up eating it all..  it was flavorful, and tasty, but i know this is not really high. 

so, before my next attempt.. how to handle the condensation?, though i still want to keep it in the fridge.

thanks!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: sabertooth on September 20, 2010, 06:51:17 am
Moisture is necessary for optimal rot and bacterial inoculation.
The wetter the better when it comes to high meat.
Just let it be and after a month enjoy
condensation is fine(nothing to worry about)
High meat making isn't an exact science so let nature work its magic
And just learn to know by taste and smell how ripe you want it.

Sometimes the fridge is too cold and the meat doesn't ripen fast enough
so I leave it out every night for a week, airing it and putting it back in the fridge in the morning
It seems to quicken the aging, and makes meat higher and faster,plus I notice no difference in quality when compared to slower aged meat.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on September 20, 2010, 10:16:00 am
Moisture is necessary for optimal rot and bacterial inoculation.
The wetter the better when it comes to high meat.
Just let it be and after a month enjoy
condensation is fine(nothing to worry about)
High meat making isn't an exact science so let nature work its magic
And just learn to know by taste and smell how ripe you want it.


but doesn't that allow for mold??.. there wouldn't be condensation if i left in on the counter or something, it's only there because the fridge temp cycles. i love the taste of aged meat, but fuzzy growth...  :P


Sometimes the fridge is too cold and the meat doesn't ripen fast enough
so I leave it out every night for a week, airing it and putting it back in the fridge in the morning
It seems to quicken the aging, and makes meat higher and faster,plus I notice no difference in quality when compared to slower aged meat.

thanks! i'll try that next time.

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: sabertooth on September 20, 2010, 07:12:25 pm
fuzzy mold is part of the early high meat process, Av talks about mold and bacteria growing on high meat,

Usually after it gets real high the fuzz gets eattin away by other life forms and adds its richness to the primordial soup(yummy)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: needs_and_wants on September 24, 2010, 06:33:11 pm
What should one do if there is a considerable build up of blood at the bottom of the jar of high meat? Is it best to pour it off? Thanks!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: RawZi on September 24, 2010, 09:05:59 pm
What should one do if there is a considerable build up of blood at the bottom of the jar of high meat? Is it best to pour it off? Thanks!

    I never like wasting things.  For those that don't drink this probiotic rich leftover, I recommend replenishing your garden's soil with it.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: wodgina on January 04, 2011, 07:15:11 pm
Anyone though of adding dirt to high meat. In paleo times there would of been a lot of dirt. Maybe the dirt bacteria will grow too?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: wodgina on January 04, 2011, 07:19:20 pm
fuzzy mold is part of the early high meat process, Av talks about mold and bacteria growing on high meat,

Usually after it gets real high the fuzz gets eattin away by other life forms and adds its richness to the primordial soup(yummy)

Yes I hear bacteria will eat candida A. and good bacteria can eat the bad bacteria too.

A lot of people may need consistant addition of bacteria in their diet to kill candida. The people having fecal transplants found the would be fine for a month or so (remission from crohns/IBS/Ulcerative colitis) and then need a new batch!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 04, 2011, 07:21:56 pm
Anyone though of adding dirt to high meat. In paleo times there would of been a lot of dirt. Maybe the dirt bacteria will grow too?
  I have thought about it, especially since the current research on bacteria affecting mood has been focusing on soil bacteria, and I was wondering if soil bacteria were somehow mysteriously different to bacteria in "high-meat". But I am too squeamish and don't like such dirty flesh. 
I recall that the Inuit, according to Stefansson, ate a lot of raw fish coated heavily in sand/grit, but I seem to recall that this wore down their teeth a great deal.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: wodgina on January 04, 2011, 07:26:03 pm
I'll try it right now I'm making a batch and will report back...
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Hannibal on January 04, 2011, 07:42:54 pm
this wore down their teeth a great deal.
But the teeth grew again.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 04, 2011, 07:46:29 pm
But the teeth grew again.
I recall(?) Stefansson saying that their teeth were constantly worn down due to the grit/sand in their raw fish so their teeth didn't regrow. I admit that Stefansson also stated that the teeth were only worn down with roots etc. still intact, so  that the teeth could have grown back if they had stopped consuming all that grit.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: sanborn on February 02, 2011, 05:34:29 am
I was introduced to high meat by a friend who had an array of different meat and fish all neatly cut up in small portions in small mouth pint jars.  He used nose clips and had some pride in his 'collection'. 
On the other hand the way I got started was if I had some fish or an organ in a jar in the fridge that I was too slow consuming, it started becoming high meat all on its own.  This is fine except I ended up with some larger than bite-sized chunks so had to keep airing it out twice a week until it got to the point where I could easily cut it by pressing it between my fork and the glass jar.  Now I have about 8 of these going.  Sometimes I let some of these just sit there in the fridge without airing them out but when I am ready to start on them, I just take them out 2-3 times a week for some 'fresh air' a few times before I start consuming them. 
Thanks, Tyler, for your full description - it is very good to see this.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Wolf on February 25, 2011, 05:52:12 am
wait wait WAIT.. TEETH GROW BACK?.. like i mean not if you loose a tooth, but if your tooth gets worn down, if it still has the root, it can grow back??
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on February 25, 2011, 08:18:28 am
I'll try it right now I'm making a batch and will report back...

report??  :D
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on February 25, 2011, 02:48:33 pm
wait wait WAIT.. TEETH GROW BACK?.. like i mean not if you loose a tooth, but if your tooth gets worn down, if it still has the root, it can grow back??
I assume so.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: miles on February 26, 2011, 12:22:20 am
I assume so.

What if it's snapped in half? My tooth got snapped in half ages ago and it got a cap put on it, and hasn't grown noticeably. Do you think the cap stopped it from growing, or that it only grows slowly to counter wear so couldn't recover from so much of a loss?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on February 26, 2011, 12:28:16 am
What if it's snapped in half? My tooth got snapped in half ages ago and it got a cap put on it, and hasn't grown noticeably. Do you think the cap stopped it from growing, or that it only grows slowly to counter wear so couldn't recover from so much of a loss?
No idea. I have heard strenuous claims by followers of weston-price that teeth can grow back in all sorts of circumstances, I'm a bit sceptical, though.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: sabertooth on February 28, 2011, 07:18:11 am
I have ran out of my tasty high meat, and don't really like the jar meats that I have left, so I have been cold turkey without it for the last week or so. I have no withdraw or Delirium tremors or anything. I do miss it, but it seems my digestion is just as good as ever, my apatite is a little less than usual, but I have been on paternity leave so I haven't been working as hard.

I got a 5 pound chunk of beef that I am going to age out on a rack in my shed. Its been out there about a week and its smelling mouthwatey delicious, although I promised myself not to touch it until its riper. My wife threw our dog in the shed the other day and  it got a hold of my meat and chewed on it a bit befor I found it. I rinsed the dirt of and put it back on the rack and perhaps the dog germs might help it age better, I hope it turns out good,

I guess I can start trimmings small slimy pieces of the surface while allowing the center to age longer , I want to have a meat locker where I can keep a chunk of meat on a swarma spindle and just cut off a piece whenever I want. I am not sure how well it will work out , but I am going to give it a try.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: magnetic on March 10, 2011, 08:30:13 pm
So if I hang my meat in the fridge it will become high meat, but probably much quicker than if I use the jar/airing method, right?  Will I need to eat it quicker or will it still be good to eat after 2 months of hanging (this is probably how long it will take me to eat ~200 lbs. of meat)?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: magnetic on April 20, 2011, 06:58:32 am
So I have 9 jars of high meat from fresh, never frozen grass fed ground beef that I started April 9th (10 days ago). I have been airing them out regularly, I think today is the 4th or 5th time I have opened them up to air out. The strange thing is that all are the same bright red color except for one jar, in which the meat has all turned brown.  Is that meat bad? Or is it just progressing faster than the rest of the meat? I made high meat once before, using prefrozen grass fed ground beef, but it didn't seem to get high so I just ate it after a few weeks.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 26, 2011, 08:06:43 am
This is a wonderful thread.  I'm new to RAF but I went ahead and made some high meat and I did get a nice high this afternoon about 3 hours after eating two small bites of it.  It feels great.  I made mine out of sirloin stew meat and I stored it 3 days outside the fridge in a plastic container.  I air it out about 3 times a day.  I'm going to keep ripening it outside the fridge until I can't handle the taste.  Then I'll put it in the fridge.  So far, the taste is great.  The smell is kind of foul when I first open it.

I read were one of you eats high meat 3 months on / 3 months off.  Do most of you have a little every day?

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on April 26, 2011, 10:25:38 am
so you got high meat benefits after just three days?.. or is this a different batch?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 26, 2011, 10:37:08 am
Yes, 3 days but it was left at room temperature the whole time.   
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on April 26, 2011, 11:13:44 am
i haven't tried high meat yet, but three days.. surely i can do three days...

at room temp, did any condensation form on the inside of the container?  what does it look like? do you actually chew the meat, or did you just bolt it? :D
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 26, 2011, 11:20:02 am
Yes, there was some condensation.  Some of the meat is grey and some is still red.  I ate a couple of small grey pieces.   It tasted good to me (vinegary) so I chewed it. 
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on April 26, 2011, 11:25:30 am
lol, thanks for your responses! :)  i'll start a little bit tomorrow, something to try on the weekend  :P
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 26, 2011, 11:00:00 pm
I was starting to smell the meat through the plastic container so I transferred it to a glass jar.  Man did it smell bad when I opened it up outside and got to the slime on the bottom.  Just like a restaurant dumpster.  And a fly was on it instantly.  I guess there's no question that it's now high meat.   I can't wash the smell out of the top of the plastic container so I'm leaving it out in the sun to air it out.  What a trip!!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on April 26, 2011, 11:55:50 pm
I was starting to smell the meat through the plastic container so I transferred it to a glass jar.  Man did it smell bad when I opened it up outside and got to the slime on the bottom.  Just like a restaurant dumpster.  And a fly was on it instantly.  I guess there's no question that it's now high meat.   I can't wash the smell out of the top of the plastic container so I'm leaving it out in the sun to air it out.  What a trip!!
Flies go crazy for raw meats, more so than cooked meats, as they lay their eggs on them. I hope you got rid of any such eggs, as, otherwise, you will have maggots crawling all over your meats soon.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 27, 2011, 01:12:48 am
Yes, the fly landed on the plastic container top after I had transferred the meat to the glass container.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 27, 2011, 03:12:21 am
I just tried my high meat after 4 days of ripening outside the fridge.  That's all I can take.  It's rotten enough for me (pretty nasty).  It's going into the fridge and I'll keep eating it.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on April 27, 2011, 05:49:54 am
I think the reason that Aajonus and others recommend keeping high meat and aging meats at cool temps is that pathogenic bacteria tend to thrive in warm temps, whereas good bacteria can handle cool temps fine. On the other hand, some African HGs scavenge carcasses that have been sitting out in the tropical sun, so it may not be a big deal as long as the food is very exposed to air. On the third hand, HGs probably have stronger stomachs than most moderners.

I don't think my high meats and aged meats ever turn grey unless they've been partially or totally in direct contact with plastic at some point after being exposed to air. High meats no longer smell or taste bad to me--just strong. It makes sense, because if fermenting meats/fish turned off all H. sapiens, then our ancestors would have been turned off from scavenging and likely would not have come to dominate the planet like they did. This raises the question of why do fermenting meats/fish smell and taste really bad to unitiated moderners. I wonder if modern foods somehow alter the taste buds and olfactory organ?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on April 27, 2011, 06:39:58 am
I wonder if modern foods somehow alter the taste buds and olfactory organ?

I don't see how anyone who consumes sweets, sugars, etc can have a taste for aging meat or organs.  I think we have to lose that sweet addiction first and experience true hunger to find aging meat appealing.  just mho.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 27, 2011, 10:45:28 am
Thanks for the info Phil - I think I'll start another batch in glass in the fridge.  This batch tastes okay but the smell is really horrible.  It might be unsafe.

I always tend to jump into things a little too quickly.  Now that I've tried high meat, I have the patience to wait 3 weeks.  It gave me a nice mental lift but I can do fine without it for a few weeks.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on April 27, 2011, 07:43:28 pm
I've only bitten into bad meat once and the taste was horrendous--much worse than high meat or even stink fish (the first time I tried stink fish it tasted worse to me than high meat). I only sunk my teeth in a fraction before I spit it out. Even the first time I tried unflavored raw fermented cod liver oil was not as bad as meat that had gone truly bad, though the RFCLO was nasty the first time--it tasted like how a dead fish smells that has been lying in the sun on the beach for a long time. On the other hand, maybe my taste buds are more attuned now that I've been eating raw Paleo for some time? Still, if you were able to eat the meat then I would be surprised if it was very bad, especially if you're new to eating raw meat and didn't get sick.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 27, 2011, 09:49:14 pm
Okay, thanks, Phil.  Maybe I won't throw it out.  The taste was fine.  It smelled exactly like a restaurant dumpster on a hot afternoon.  That may be what it is supposed to smell like.  The worst was when I took the slimy container inside to wash it.  The smell stayed in the room and I had to air it out and spray a deodorizer. 
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 27, 2011, 09:54:57 pm
I re-read the first post in this thread.  It says to air out the meat for a few minutes every 1 - 3 days.  Is it necessary to let in air for that long or will a couple of seconds do it?   I can't imagine being able to keep flies off of it if it's left open for minutes.  Also, does anyone stir it to get air to the bottom?

Thanks
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on April 27, 2011, 09:58:22 pm
I re-read the first post in this thread.  It says to air out the meat for a few minutes every 1 - 3 days.  Is it necessary to let in air for that long or will a couple of seconds do it?   I can't imagine being able to keep flies off of it if it's left open for minutes.  Also, does anyone stir it to get air to the bottom?

Thanks
  The main thing is to refresh the air completely. So, shaking it completely would be OK if airing for only a few seconds.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 27, 2011, 10:33:18 pm
Thanks, Tyler.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on April 28, 2011, 05:18:12 am
My best guess re: getting the bad smell and slime so quickly is because it was left in heat rather than refrigerated or stored in a cool area. I've haven't experienced that with any of my meat except with ground beef left out on during hot summer days. My high meat gets rather stinky after a few weeks, IIRC. Of course, VT is often rather cold and I tend to keep the heater set relatively low. Stink fish only seems to take a few days to get slimy and somewhat stinky.

BTW, the Inuit reportedly prefer high meat that's more than a year or more old. I noticed that the odor and taste of high meat that gets this old is milder, so maybe that's why. It also is very much broken down, with lots of liquid at that point, so maybe easy digestability is another thing they like about >1yr high meat, I don't know.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: larrymagee on April 29, 2011, 12:50:36 am
I went 48 hours without getting sick so that room temperature batch is fine.  I had some this morning after it had been in the fridge for 2 days.  I enjoyed chewing it.  There are hints of both bitterness and sweetness in the taste.

I'm guessing that one day ripening outside the fridge at about 75F = a week in the fridge.  I think I'll do my next batch entirely in the fridge so I can compare the taste.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: rawfishy on October 11, 2011, 11:24:26 pm
Hello.
Now I wanna try High Meat.
I would like to ask what's that:
(http://www.imgxc.com/fullimage/cBvTYd.jpg)
(3 days in room temperature on a plate)
Is it safe to eat?

Also I prepare beef liver in fridge with aerating
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 12, 2011, 03:07:16 am
Hello.
Now I wanna try High Meat.
I would like to ask what's that:

Is it safe to eat?



It's just yeast/mold.  Perfectly safe to eat, most likely, but you can scrape it off if you don't like it.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: rawfishy on October 12, 2011, 03:26:02 am
I cure candida so is it save to eat yeast/mold in this case?  -\ (i'll try vco maybe next week)
so far it is 6 days and smells yummy.

btw liver in refrigerator is 2 weeks old but smells not good.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 12, 2011, 10:32:16 am
I cure candida so is it save to eat yeast/mold in this case?  -\ (i'll try vco maybe next week)
so far it is 6 days and smells yummy.

btw liver in refrigerator is 2 weeks old but smells not good.

I don't know how meat mold would affect candida.  It might out-compete it, or add to the problem, or do basically nothing.

Make sure the liver is exposed to air.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on November 13, 2011, 03:13:53 am
Question 1: Is there a reason not to use ground meat?
I would think there would be more air contact and faster breakdown.
It's also the only kind of fresh non-frozen meat that I am going to have.

Question 2: How many of you give this to your dogs and do they like it?
My dogs have been on an all raw diet for years. It seems like a good way to preserve some of the fresh meat for them.

I'm probably not far enough along yet to try it for myself.... but we'll see.

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: RawZi on November 13, 2011, 03:18:30 am
Question 2: How many of you give this to your dogs and do they like it?

    With my friend's permission I gave it (various types that I eat) and chunks of raw butter and chunks of raw unsalted cheese.  The dog was very happy with it.  I did not do it long term, so I do not know more.  It was for less than a week.  It was too far away for me.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on November 13, 2011, 03:32:17 am
Some people have stated they made high-meat successfully from prefrozen meat. It didn't work for me, but maybe I did something wrong.

No idea re raw, ground meat, as I never tried it. I would imagine that it would turn into a liquid soup more quickly than chunks of raw meats.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Inger on November 13, 2011, 05:22:34 am
Dorothy,
try high heart! I love lambshearts that have gotten high. I just let them age naturally in my fridge. Not in a jar. It works.

Lambshearts give me such a nice feeling anytime! :-*
Huh. I am just in love with them. :)

Inger
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on November 14, 2011, 10:26:39 am
Inger - Lamb's heart to open the heart! 

I probably can get those in the spring. I will definitely try those. More love in my life is always welcome.  :)

Tyler - Maybe high meat from frozen meat might still be better for my dogs than not fermented foods - even if it wouldn't give me all the benefits - but I think I'll try it with unfrozen ground meat before frozen since they love really slimy disgusting things in general.  ;D  Thanks for that info.

Zi - I have one dog that is healthier and young and perhaps I can try these things on him for awhile first before trying it with the old dogs. They all eat regular raw already. For goodness sakes they love eating chicken poop and last week I saw the young one with a bone that I haven't given them in years - it had to be at least 3 years old! I doubt if any form can do them much harm.

I'll report on how the dogs do on high meat here after we experiment. I have a feeling that it could really help the sick dog.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: RawZi on November 14, 2011, 10:03:48 pm
    This dog was very old, sick and weak, and it did not harm him.

    Av has recommended herbivore turd successfully when someone wouldn't try any highmeat.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on November 14, 2011, 11:04:48 pm
Herbivore turd really?

I keep on thinking that the chicken poop is probably good for my sick beagle and she wants it desperately - the only problem is that when I bring her in she throws up in the house and has diarrhea inside too and makes an outrageous mess that stinks like nothing else on the planet.

Otherwise - I would let her eat it.

The only way I can let her outside is with a complicated cone setup around her head - but then if she can't eat the poops she doesn't even want to be out there.

But, if someone wouldn't eat high meat I can't imagine them eating turds! Do people really eat cow turds?!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: PaleoPhil on November 15, 2011, 09:27:46 am
Aajonus isn't the only one. I've seen old-time Hindu-Indian vegetarians recommend eating your own feces or urine for optimal health, including one urine-drinker who advocated it on 60 Minutes. There apparently is also an Irish folk medicine tradition of drinking urine for certain conditions. Not for me, thanks.  ;D
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on November 15, 2011, 02:18:32 pm
Yes, well, virtually all of us are revolted by this sort of thing. Could we please  get back to the more wholesome subject of high-meat?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on November 16, 2011, 01:29:29 am
Sorry Tyler - I was just so shocked - but that was a deviation from the subject.

In one way it might not be though. Maybe it says something about what is missing in the diet and how high meat can fill those dietary needs instead?

I'm going to start feeding my beagle high meat and see if it stops her unsavory habits. That would be a GREAT benefit for us indeed. 
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: MDee on November 17, 2011, 04:02:41 am
I love fermented foods (in fact its about all i eat) but I haven't tried this. Some questions and ideas tho.

So if you put a cheese cloth or even say a shirt over the top of a jar of meat would the flies still be able to lay eggs in it? It seems to keep fruit flies out of vinegar.

Also if leaving it outside dries out the meat, what if you have more fat around the meat wouldn't that keep it moist even if left outside exposed to the air?

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: RawZi on November 17, 2011, 05:40:39 am
    @MkkyDee dried fat makes me gag and makes me feel ill. Fat is not highmeat, but even that feels better to me left out enclosed than open. To make real high meat, follow one of the original sets of directions.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: MDee on November 17, 2011, 09:43:56 am
I'd try the by original instructions for sure ;) I was just tossin an idea out there. Thanks for your response. Dried fat made you gag? huh? Was it suet or kidney fat?

What about a cloth over the jar, would that keep flies out? If say I was to keep it outside and not refrigerate it at all. (By the way I have read this whole thread)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: RawZi on November 17, 2011, 10:22:22 am
    Suet, kidney fat, marrow etc.

    If I make it more at room temp instead of refrigerated, I mix it several times per day, then refrigerated by the time the week's over, otherwise worms grow in it.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Adora on November 18, 2011, 09:55:19 am
Re putting meat outside and preventing flies from getting at it.

What about puttting the jar in a paper bag, then sealing the folded down part of the bag to itself with melted wax. This sounds like a lot of work at first, but all you need is to drip a candle on it and it's sealed and you could just leave alone for weeks until it is done.
It's pretty cold here now so I'm not doing it or I'll just end up with frozen meat, but maybe somebody in a warmer climate.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: RawZi on November 18, 2011, 02:40:59 pm
    @Adora, why not put it below ground. I think it's about fifty degrees F all over the planet four feet and more in the soil all year round. When I Didn't refrigerated highmeat I did it in an earthenware pot (like the terracotta planters) below ground level in my basement when it was warm upstairs and cooler below.

    Funny we bury people six feet under where the temperature is conducive to healthful bacteria, but we add vaccine preservative formaldehyde so that doesn't happen. Why do we live our lives above ground where temperatures are less stable? Please don't mind my babble.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: sabertooth on November 20, 2011, 10:16:50 pm
Ive been hanging a lamb in my shed for the past week and just cutting pieces of it as needed. No refrigeration. Its just now starting to get high, There is a yellowish green surface slime that is beginning to form but the interior meat is still nice and red.

Maggots have taken over the remainder of my bull skull so I threw it to my chickens. I probably have some of the healthiest eggs available. Chickens, free ranged and then fed scraps of high meat infested with juicy maggots(all raised on grassfed).

I have this one chicken that has been living on the cow skull all week eating its fill of maggots, then she leaves me one of the most beautiful eggs every day.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on November 30, 2011, 01:46:24 am
Ive been hanging a lamb in my shed for the past week and just cutting pieces of it as needed. No refrigeration. Its just now starting to get high, There is a yellowish green surface slime that is beginning to form but the interior meat is still nice and red.

Maggots have taken over the remainder of my bull skull so I threw it to my chickens. I probably have some of the healthiest eggs available. Chickens, free ranged and then fed scraps of high meat infested with juicy maggots(all raised on grassfed).

I have this one chicken that has been living on the cow skull all week eating its fill of maggots, then she leaves me one of the most beautiful eggs every day.

I'm so jealous! I want maggots for my chickens so bad. This spring I'm going to start a black soldier fly maggot composting system for them. That's such a good tip of how to use any high meat that you might not want or if it goes a bit too high for you. Never too high for flies and maggots and chickens! :)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Adora on December 05, 2011, 11:25:24 pm
    @Adora, why not put it below ground. I think it's about fifty degrees F all over the planet four feet and more in the soil all year round. When I Didn't refrigerated highmeat I did it in an earthenware pot (like the terracotta planters) below ground level in my basement when it was warm upstairs and cooler below.

    Funny we bury people six feet under where the temperature is conducive to healthful bacteria, but we add vaccine preservative formaldehyde so that doesn't happen. Why do we live our lives above ground where temperatures are less stable? Please don't mind my babble.

Hi Raw Zia - I just saw this. Thanks for the idea, it sounds great. I like thinking about putting it outside under the ground in a hole. Thanks again for helping me to eat high meat for the first time. I finshed that off and I'm waiting for my thanks giving turkey left overs to get high, and some lamb liver and kidney too. I think I want you to walk me through it again. Each day I air it out I think I'll be ready, but I keep putting it back.
  The air in my basement is yucky. I don't know if I want my meat to breathe that stuff. Homes are kind of yucky places. It seems out side would be healthier, but more work. I probably won't do either this year, just the refrigerator method. Next year I'll be more creative.



Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Justaraw on January 06, 2012, 06:34:37 am
I think it's more to do with combining cooked with raw or eating aged, cooked meats, along with the fact that people on cooked diets have compromised immune-systems and extreme allergenic response to bacteria and foodstuffs. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of deaths from food-poisoning/botulinism come from very old or very young   or people who are already very ill.

Contrary to what a few individuals may claim, you shouldn't be unusually susceptible to getting sick from combining raw high meat, or raw meat with a cooked food diet (unless you are a really unhealthy person in general). Just off the top, the Mongolians ate cooked meat all the time combined with their various raw sources of proteins such as mare cheeses, yogurt and milk. The Mongolians also had/have a delicacy called “green meat” which is the same as the Native American practice of burying a carcass for a year and chowing down. There you go, another example of a raw/cooked combo diet. Not to mention the Taiwanese and Japanese cultures (as mentioned earlier in this thread) who consume a mixed diet.

Yea... WAPF all the way!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 06, 2012, 07:03:03 am
Well, sure if someone is eating a SAD diet as well as raw foods, then it is far more likely that problems will occur than on a healthier, mixed raw/cooked  WAPF-style diet. That said, I don't believe that mixing raw and cooked is a good idea, and that it over-stresses the body.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on January 07, 2012, 03:23:34 am
Well, sure if someone is eating a SAD diet as well as raw foods, then it is far more likely that problems will occur than on a healthier, mixed raw/cooked  WAPF-style diet. That said, I don't believe that mixing raw and cooked is a good idea, and that it over-stresses the body.

Would you please explain more of how/why mixing raw and cooked over-stresses the body.
Thanks.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 07, 2012, 06:07:46 am
Would you please explain more of how/why mixing raw and cooked over-stresses the body.
Thanks.
I mean that raw and cooked foods require different digestive processes. For example, I noticed that cooked foods require far more stomach acids to process foods than raw foods do. Also raw foods take a shorter time than cooked foods to pass through the digestive tract, which causes issues when mixing the two and so on.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on January 07, 2012, 06:25:35 am
I mean that raw and cooked foods require different digestive processes. For example, I noticed that cooked foods require far more stomach acids to process foods than raw foods do. Also raw foods take a shorter time than cooked foods to pass through the digestive tract, which causes issues when mixing the two and so on.

Just to understand this more fully as I don't seem to have any more problem eating cooked and raw foods together than eating just cooked foods - why would having more stomach acid be a problem since the things that get broken down faster in more acid would just do so and the cooked would just take longer? Why would more stomach acid than necessary for the raw part be a problem? If the raw foods take a shorter time and move through faster, why would that be more of a problem than eating all cooked foods? I find that eating all raw is much easier -- that I can understand -- less work for the entire system -- but I'm afraid that I don't understand why eating as much of the food raw as possible would be negative. Would you mind please explaining this in more detail for me? I continue to assume that eating as much food as possible raw is better than choosing to eat all cooked rather than mix. For instance - if there is some cooked vegetable, I still do better eating as much of the meal as salad as possible. I also assume that my husband lightly cooking only the outside of his meat and eating it as rare as possible is better for him than thoroughly cooking the meat all the way through. I agree that all raw would be better, but it seems to me that you are saying that all cooked would be better than partially cooked. If I am wrong in this please tell me and explain more fully the details of why cooked and raw should not be eaten together. I think it could be important to understand this correctly. Thanks. 
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 07, 2012, 07:34:44 am
Lightly searing one's steaks on the outside is hardly equivalent to mixing raw and cooked, since it's mostly raw. By mixing, I mean something more susbantial, like having   whole, thoroughly grilled chicken legs mixed with   raw wild hare legs, or whatever.

As regards mixing raw and cooked re digestion-time, if, say, someone eats a cooked meal, and then quickly follows it up with a raw meal, then that can cause problems, though, logically, not so much the other way round, if you see what I mean. I have experienced this myself:- If I eat too much of a cooked meal, and then follow it up with a raw meal, then I often feel the driving urge to vomit, as the raw food seems to get blocked by the cooked food still being digested. I don't get this effect, admittedly, if the amount of cooked food I eat at the same time is small, though.

As regards extra digestive acids for cooked foods, that can be a problem for those with compromised digestive systems. For example, by the time I first switched to a raw, palaeolithic diet, I had developed extremely painful stomach-aches after eating any cooked animal food whatsoever. However, when I ate any raw animal food, my stomach-pains/ulcers did not register at all.

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on January 07, 2012, 02:52:34 pm
Lightly searing one's steaks on the outside is hardly equivalent to mixing raw and cooked, since it's mostly raw. By mixing, I mean something more susbantial, like having   whole, thoroughly grilled chicken legs mixed with   raw wild hare legs, or whatever.

As regards mixing raw and cooked re digestion-time, if, say, someone eats a cooked meal, and then quickly follows it up with a raw meal, then that can cause problems, though, logically, not so much the other way round, if you see what I mean. I have experienced this myself:- If I eat too much of a cooked meal, and then follow it up with a raw meal, then I often feel the driving urge to vomit, as the raw food seems to get blocked by the cooked food still being digested. I don't get this effect, admittedly, if the amount of cooked food I eat at the same time is small, though.

As regards extra digestive acids for cooked foods, that can be a problem for those with compromised digestive systems. For example, by the time I first switched to a raw, palaeolithic diet, I had developed extremely painful stomach-aches after eating any cooked animal food whatsoever. However, when I ate any raw animal food, my stomach-pains/ulcers did not register at all.



I guess I don't understand the difference between eating a rare burger or steak or ahi tuna and eating some cooked and some raw meat as some of the meat is uncooked and some cooked in either case. What's the difference if they are on different parts of the plate?  Once chewed they are separate. They would still be two different digestive processes them wouldn't they?  What's substantial mean? If half the burger or steak or fish is cooked and the other half not, how is that less substantial?

It sounds like cooked foods in general are extremely difficult for you. That I can understand. But for those that don't have problems - I'm still not convinced that eating all cooked rather than mixing as much raw as desired/possible with that meal makes sense to me. It seems to me that you would feel sick eating cooked meal any which way or in any combination because you are so very sensitive to cooked foods.... no? I know what you mean about having a raw meal after your cooked - but might not that be more a specific thing for you since you have such a tough time digesting cooked meals? Are you convinced that would be the same for people that move cooked meals through pretty easily?

I'm still not convinced that if given the choice of having raw mixed with cooked or just cooked that just cooked would be better for most people without a stronger reasoning / argument to convince me. It's a pertinent subject since most of my husbands meals are half raw and cooked these days.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 07, 2012, 05:58:59 pm
Well, actually a fully cooked meal would cause me to vomit much more than a partially raw/cooked meal, so, no, I don't advocate a fully cooked meal as being better than a mixed raw/cooked meal. And, sure, some peoples' digestion will be better at handling such a mixture.

Actually, I don't think my own digestive system is wrecked in any way. After all, all my stomach-pains etc. disappeared once I went rawpalaeo. I think that  many people, once they've been raw for many years, just eventually lose the extra automatic processes that the body normally uses to digest cooked foods.

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on January 08, 2012, 06:45:14 am
Well, actually a fully cooked meal would cause me to vomit much more than a partially raw/cooked meal, so, no, I don't advocate a fully cooked meal as being better than a mixed raw/cooked meal. And, sure, some peoples' digestion will be better at handling such a mixture.

Actually, I don't think my own digestive system is wrecked in any way. After all, all my stomach-pains etc. disappeared once I went rawpalaeo. I think that  many people, once they've been raw for many years, just eventually lose the extra automatic processes that the body normally uses to digest cooked foods.



Ok, that jives with my experiences Tyler. The more raw the better for me - mixed being better than all cooked and raw being the best. I'm not sure that when I've been raw for a long time that my body stopped having the ability to digest cooked foods - I always thought of it more like my body just decided that the cooked was unnecessary inferior stuff that should be gotten out as quickly as possible any way that was possible. I always could adapt way too quickly back to cooked foods for it to be not having the necessary equipment still in place. My body just had to register that this is what we were doing for food again - and it wasn't some awful mistake. :O

I somehow remember you saying that cooked meat made you feel bad and you got sick before finding raw paleo - did I get that wrong? What I meant to say rather than label your digestion as "wrecked" or anything of the sort (sorry if I did that) was that your body from what you said in the past seems to not "like" "want" "digest" cooked animal foods well and so it doesn't surprise me that you would feel like mixing cooked with your raw is not good or that your body would be blocked up with cooked if eating a raw meal afterward.

One of the interesting things that I find sometimes is that if I am eating a lot of or primarily raw, that when I eat raw food after a cooked meal my body will speed up the process of getting rid of the cooked meal to get it out of the way - out the bottom end. It's like my body says - good easily digested and assimilated stuff in the pipe - come on and get moving this garbage out of the way whether it's digested or not!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 08, 2012, 07:44:22 am
One of the many possible symptoms of  adrenal burnout is that animal foods become far more difficult to digest, forcing many to gradually become vegan. That's what happened to me, my glands just shorted out so to speak. Fortunately, I found out that this only applied to cooked animal foods, not raw animal foods.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on January 08, 2012, 07:58:27 am
One of the many possible symptoms of  adrenal burnout is that animal foods become far more difficult to digest, forcing many to gradually become vegan. That's what happened to me, my glands just shorted out so to speak. Fortunately, I found out that this only applied to cooked animal foods, not raw animal foods.

Didn't know that about adrenal burnout making it difficult to digest cooked animal foods. Interesting. Do you think that if you had to go back to eating cooked meat if after the initial adaptation at the start you'd be able to digest it now that your adrenals are healed up from raw paleo? Not that you would want to do such a thing - but I mean - do you think that your adrenals are all healed up so that you could digest cooked if you ever needed to? I would think that all the high meat would do a lot on top of the adrenal healing to make digestion in general easier. Don't mean to be to hypothetical - just curious if you've pondered this.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 08, 2012, 08:23:42 am
Once I healed on this diet, I did experiment with cooked animal foods once again, and I no longer had the awful stomach-aches I had pre-rawpalaeodiet with them. So, yes my adrenals have healed.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dorothy on January 08, 2012, 12:46:08 pm
Once I healed on this diet, I did experiment with cooked animal foods once again, and I no longer had the awful stomach-aches I had pre-rawpalaeodiet with them. So, yes my adrenals have healed.

Nice.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: jessica on March 26, 2012, 09:59:57 am
FLIES! MAGGOTS!  seriously the only thing that is kinda gross to me about high meat...i want to have it out in the air but the flies like to hang out in it, and little white maggots are slightly gross.  i have been just smearing them hoping that kills them...really though is there anything potentially hazardous about eating them?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: cherimoya_kid on March 26, 2012, 12:37:32 pm
..really though is there anything potentially hazardous about eating them?

No. I've eaten plenty of maggots that grew in my fermented raw milk. In fact, there's a delicacy in Italy called "maggot cheese".  It is what it sounds like, cheese with live maggots in it.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Azroy on April 17, 2012, 04:45:43 pm
Sorry,i'm new to rpd..still planning on switching to rpd. What is high meat?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Rawr on April 17, 2012, 05:37:53 pm
Sorry,i'm new to rpd..still planning on switching to rpd. What is high meat?

"High Meat"

- meat that is partially pre-digested by bacteria (and possibly other microbes)
- traditionally made and consumed by Inuits ("Eskimo")
- most "modern western people" would call high meat "spoiled" or "rotten" - however
- as long as the source raw meat is healthy, the resulting "high meat" is also healthy.

Why would we/do we eat it?
- it's a great natura "probiotic supplement" for meat-digesting bacteria & a very easily/quickly digestible protein at the same time
- it is recommended ESPECIALLY for people with brain-function ("psychological/emotional") problems and people with likeliness of insufficient "digestive flora" (poisoned by anti-biotics / flushed by some "colon cleansing" procedure / other reasons)

What is it NOT:
- it is NOT equal to sour milk (which could be called "high milk" :)) - sour milk is pre-digested by different bacteria types
- it is NOT a reliable source for "whipworm"/"Trichuris suis" (doctors call them a "parasite" :)) - for that, AV recommends eating intestines of healthy pigs

Why do/would someone NOT eat it? :)
- it has a strong smell and an intense taste compared to fresh meat! >D That's why it's usually NOT recommended to "RPD beginners". :)
- you might still believe the propaganda that "natural microbes cause diseases"- for letting go of this, I recommend any and all materials and interviews with AV (Aajonus Vonderplanitz) - he frames that propaganda with both common sense approach and links to some other information sources worth having "mapped".
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: letsdoiteczema on June 23, 2012, 06:31:45 pm
No. I've eaten plenty of maggots that grew in my fermented raw milk. In fact, there's a delicacy in Italy called "maggot cheese".  It is what it sounds like, cheese with live maggots in it.

Keep bugs off high meat!

- insect repellent plants
- natural insect repellents, e.g. essential oils. I drip 3-4 drops of "Now" brand Lavender Essential Oil on the lid of my 2 high meat jars

I know this works because without Lavender oil, 1-2 flies are constantly roaming on my high meat jars.

I suppose this also stops insects from laying eggs on the jar lids, so no eggs will drop into the jar anymore!

Please report back your results! I'm very curious whether this works for you or not?
Title: High meat, video
Post by: Inger on June 25, 2012, 09:29:55 pm
I did this video today, where I show how I eat high meat (heart) and how it looks.

High meat, a health bomb (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDfBW93BhLY#)

Inger
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: goodsamaritan on June 26, 2012, 01:17:13 am
So pretty!  Love your videos!

Wish we could transmit smell and taste over the internet.

I'm now inspired to make a new batch of high meat.
Title: High-meat video.. Brain-Gut Blogseries
Post by: Inger on June 26, 2012, 12:19:23 pm
Thank you GS!
I am glad if I could be your inspiration, cause I believe high-meat is very beneficial.. especially after reading the last Brain-Gut series on Jack Kruses Blog. They are mind blowing. :o (the whole blog is totally worth reading, it is directing my life now and I feel great!)

Here the link if interested, the comments are mind opening too!

http://jackkruse.com/jacks-blog/ (http://jackkruse.com/jacks-blog/)

Inger
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Adora on June 27, 2012, 12:51:44 am
Inger
  I'm setting aside a small jar of beef for high meat now. I haven't done it sine I bought my new fridge. I was overwhelmed with the old one breaking down every 3-4 days, but I'll be eating a bite or 2 of high again soon.
  Have you ever made high chicken?  I have some lean breast meat. I'm going to try. I think that would get high quick.

   Also, I stopped going to Jack's blog because I had confusing emails about it being a subscription thing. So, I just jumped over on your link and saw I have loads of reading to do. Such good stuff. Thank you.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Inger on June 27, 2012, 02:00:02 am
Adora,
I never tried high chicken.. I do not eat chicken as they are all grainfed here.. But you could try it! Please tell us how it goes if you try!

Yes, Kruses blog is mind-blowing. I love his hypothesis about viruses + the leaky gut forming us to who we are, it was/is a great thing to have.. and our genome, how the epigenetics are the ones who rules, not the genetics at all. I love it, it is so very hopeful! It means we can be something amazing, if we just make the right environment!!!
Who knew that we get the HIV easiest through our guts??? Me not! But this is what recent research shows. This is why HIV started as African ate bushmeat that was infected. Primates can not get sicknesses that human can because they have no zonulin in their guts.. and no other animal has as leaky a gut as humans. But this is why we can adapt so very fast too..

Inger
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: DopeDivinity on June 27, 2012, 06:13:03 am
Awesome thread... with my comProMised Digestion, I am definitely interested in trying HighMeat. I couldn't want it sooner... it could be the Answer to all my problems. I know I say that alot...

I has a qestion. Has anyone tried High-ing the meat outside, with a cloth over the top,  perhaps in a paper bag for extra protection? It would seem it would breathe well enough that way. Thus you wouldn't need to burp it, so flies wouldn't have a chance to get in.

And another qestion. Does anyone have any figures on how much HighMeat was traditonally consumed? I could see an Eskimo eating a whole plate of it, instead of some'n like a lil marble... so I'm curious. Is there anyone here who eats it "Regularly"... like you would UnHigh meat? I don't see why not... if you think of it just like another fermented food (even if its its own ballgame) then it doesn't seem like it could be overdone.

Thanks! I'm eager to High. Maybe I should try it with frozen meat? Girl.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: jessica on June 27, 2012, 11:37:19 am
hi dougie:) flies will lay there eggs on meat hung outside, but i have seen people dry age sides of pig just as you have described. this thread has a ton of ideas about how to make high meat, look for ingers videos about it too.    high meat is really powerful, when you eat its its super weird tastey but you really cant eat all that much,  not because its not good, just because its so satiating.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Inger on June 27, 2012, 02:25:57 pm
DopeDivinity,
hanging outside will not work I am afraid. It will just dry out. It needs to be moist to rotten. That is why you need a closed glass-jar.
If you hang the whole animal, with the skin on, that might make it rot inside.. I don't know.. if that is a good idea at all.
Traditionally the food that had to rot was buried in the ground. It must have gotten just enough air through the earth that there was no chance for dangerous bacterias like botulism. That is the one that might kill you. This started to appear when the natural tribes started to use plastic to put their meat in to rot. People died from botulism. This bacteria can grow only where are no oxygen (or actually it is not the bacteria per se that is dangerous but the toxic waste that it produces).

Inger
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: DopeDivinity on June 28, 2012, 12:01:10 pm
I said High-ing, not Hanging.  :o

I was talking about the JarMethod, just outdoors with a cloth on top... the cloth would allow air in, so you dont have to burp it and risk FlyContam.

Hello Jessica... Ray here... this account is bof of us.  8)  O0

I'm the one with the Fro
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: DopeDivinity on July 04, 2012, 07:06:57 am
So... I'm sure someone out here has made HighMeat outside before... besides flies... do any other animals try to get at the Meat? I couldn't see the raccoons that live in my attic passing it up...
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: letsdoiteczema on July 04, 2012, 08:35:55 pm
@DopeDivinity

I ferment my meat in jars outside in room temp. Right now, I need to "burp" it (nice word) daily to make sure good bacteria gets fresh air. I think someone mentioned that constant exposure to air (cloth on top method) would dry out the meat very quick, and the meat would no longer ferment and produce beneficial bacteria.

I guess this is another experiment I have to do myself. Thanks for reminding me about it. I'll experiment with a small piece of meat constantly exposed to air.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on July 20, 2012, 08:37:36 am
I think my lambs heart has become too dry to develop properly... Can I just add a teaspoon of water to rehydrate it and let it continue developing?
I keep my high meat in a glass jar with a plastic lid, under my sink in a cupboard, and burp it each night. Is a plastic lid is OK?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Adora on July 21, 2012, 01:06:26 am
I think the meat will rehydrate as it decomposes, so I wouldn't add water. Why not use a mason jar lid. I've heard the plastic is fine, but the smell stays in it
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on July 21, 2012, 08:31:15 pm
i wouldn't add water. may be fine, but something else will grow i think. how about adding some fresh cuts of meat with it for moisture? that always gets slimy for me, not dry.

what does the dry high meat lamb heart that you have now smell like? is it like high meat minus the sliminess?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: CitrusHigh on July 21, 2012, 08:59:17 pm
I'd go for it Poly, but not even a half teaspoon. Just a few drops at first to raise the humidity level. You can always add more, but far more difficult to undo. The microbes just need a moist evironment so they aren't drying out, if the humidity level is kosher, then you should be golden!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on July 22, 2012, 05:37:53 pm
I added a dribble of water to it. I have not smelled high meat before, so I cannot tell you what it smells like... It smells putrid. I guess I will be going by how it looks, it is starting to get that yellow slime in between the meats, but the meat pieces are very sticky and sticking to each other and the glass.
I found out the plastic lid to my bottle is not air tight, as the smell started to come out from under the sink and all through the house! So I have put it outside, in between the shed and the gate with all the spiderwebs. I assume this is a good thing though as it will mean there is a bit of air getting in (or out) like the underground versions?

Also, has anyone ever tried making a raw garlic high meat? Apparently garlic is very good at fighting botulism and things like that, so it would be interesting to see what kind of bacteria would grow and how it would develop if the meat was drenched in fresh garlic at the start...
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: letsdoiteczema on July 22, 2012, 07:03:00 pm
@Polyvore

Yes. You make a good point.

This makes me wonder whether soaking meat in coconut oil will inhibit the potential growth of bad bacteria. The reason I'm thinking about this is that I'm forced to make high meat with frozen meat...which some here advise against, due to good bacteria being killed in frozen meat.

Anyone have any experiences of soaking meat in liquids? e.g. coconut oil, vinegar (or apple cider), garlic, lemon marinate? etc...?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Adora on July 22, 2012, 10:52:52 pm
I make high meat in the fridge, air it 1/day just open it and stir it, eat 1-3 bits and put it back. I usually start with left over meat I've been eating that is over a week old and getting sticky/slimy. Then cut it up and put in wide mouth mason jar, with metal lid.
     I toss it if it gets an ammonia smell. I don't think it is toxic, b/c I've forced myself to eat it, and I've never gotten sick, but I don't have to force it when it is regular high.
      I think marinating should be held off on until you are experienced with plain high meat. Eat fresh garlic before or after, if that pleases you, but don't marinate until you are comfortable with how a good plain batch high meat, looks, smells, and tastes.
    I have never made a good batch from the counter top method. I think it is too quick. It needs more airing, but leaving it open leads to over drying. Fridge is easier to control. Even if you miss a day, just give it extra "air exchanges" until it smells right again.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on July 23, 2012, 03:00:08 pm
I can finally identify a smell: it reminds me of rotting fish bones mixed in with rotten seaweed when I am at the beach. A little bit vinegary... but it is not fish, this is lambs heart!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Adora on July 24, 2012, 12:21:15 am
That doesn't sound bad, for high meat, but I'm eating lamb meat too and it is much more mild. Dumpsterish, but it low intensity. I don't feel better when the high meat is extra rotten so, I don't push myself to eat it when it is past my reasonably icky stage.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on July 27, 2012, 01:41:34 pm
Now if you make a new batch, can you use the uncleaned jar of the old batch as a 'starter'?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Adora on July 28, 2012, 11:06:48 am
I have 4 batches going now. 2 beef (old and new), 1 chicken, and a lamb heart. I stir them all with the same fork daily, so that seems like it would be ok, or just adding fresh meat in as you go.
     Logically it seems good, but I like the clean jar idea. I clean kefir jars too. Also,  if your meat has been frozen in shipping it is very ammonia stink and black, not red and slimey. Having the culture may cover that.
   
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: jessica on July 28, 2012, 11:25:47 am
i cannot wait to get lamb heart! i am going to try and get some tomorrow
fermented and high lamb heart sounds like a great way for me to introduce myself to the new farm
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: letsdoiteczema on August 13, 2012, 08:46:15 pm
Hey guys, just wanted to share some tips:

Get rid of stink smell on your fingers/hand after touching high meat accidentally (or in my case, just holding the high meat jar makes my hand stink...)

- apply coconut oil on smelly areas and rub vigorously
- dump smelly fingers/hand into jar of ground coffee or liquid coffee that's cooled down (I have ground organic coffee because I was doing daily coffee enemas before. I have stopped for around 2 weeks) Coffee is a widely known deodorizer.

- washing with water is pretty useless
- I know most of us here realize the harmfulness of hand soaps etc. and do not use any man-made chemicals to wash
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Ioanna on August 14, 2012, 05:26:06 am
adora and jessica, are you using pre-frozen heart? i'm not able to get any that is fresh, but i have some frozen. just that frozen meat doesn't taste the same high as fresh does... fresh is much much better. thanks!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on August 15, 2012, 10:45:52 am
My first batch seems to be ready, it has been a month now and the smell has evolved as I stirred it around and it aged. It has a distinct smell I remember from fishing bays, old seaweed and rotting fish? Strange that it is like this when it is really lamb! I have not tried it yet, I hope I don't die...
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Chris on August 15, 2012, 04:55:03 pm
adora and jessica, are you using pre-frozen heart? i'm not able to get any that is fresh, but i have some frozen. just that frozen meat doesn't taste the same high as fresh does... fresh is much much better. thanks!
I don't know about Jessica. But, Adora gets her Heart so fresh, it's actually still pumping when she picks it up.  ;)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Adora on August 16, 2012, 09:31:15 am
     Hi Polyvore I was terrified the first time I tried it. RawZi was on the phone with me. She walked/talked me through the whole thing. I did have a though but pleasnt cleans the first couple times. It still moves things nicely but gently now.
    RawZi has a group phone chat. She'd probably invite you to try you creation with her group and you can have support.

Ioanna I've never had any frozen meat come out right high. Have you?
I tried fish lots of times and it never seems right either. I gave up assuming it was because it was frozen in the ice below the ship when first caught.
      Prefrozen "high meat" gets moldy and dark. Fresh high red meat gets a deep red with a yellowish cream. Sounds nicer than it is, but I like my 1-3 peices, until it gets amoniona smell. I've been able to ditch the ammonia smell if I catch it quick and turn and air it more (2-3x/day) then its ripe dumpster smell again, which is what my body seems to like.
       I don't remember if I ate the black spotty Prefrozen stuff, if I did it wasn't much.
High heart is ok, not amazing. I like beef best. When I do make heart I trim all the fat, membrane, valves, etc down and expose the muscle; using only that.
     I think only muscle meat comes out right. What do others think? Has anybody tried high organs/glands? I want to make high pancrease. I don't have it yet though.
   
Chris -in my future it will be beating, but I haven't had that pleasure just yet. 
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on August 16, 2012, 06:18:14 pm
Well Adora,

My meat is a dull gray with a yellow smear, the insides of a piece is still slightly dark pink.

Does this seem right? I have only been airing it once a day for a few minutes, and it is otherwise left in my cold garage. I didn't want to use the fridge as the bottle lid was slightly leaky and would make the whole fridge smell bad. I have missed a day or three of airing, but aired it twice the next day each time.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on August 20, 2012, 01:09:38 pm
Oh no! I left my jar open for a few hours when I left it to air, and flies got into it... I am now assuming maggots will grow in the next few days, but I will still eat them, maggots and all. Maggots cannot do any harm can they? Older cultures eat maggots all the time, is the only reason people do not eat maggots because they are squirmy and yuck?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on August 20, 2012, 01:47:49 pm
I have an idea, perhaps I could freeze my high meat jar, then defrost it for when I want to eat it. Will this kill the beneficial bacteria?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Alive on August 20, 2012, 01:52:13 pm
When my high meat jar got a couple of tiny maggots I ate them no problem  O0 (Need a guy like this but no sun glasses and facial hair!)

I've been doing a few experiments lately:

Heaps of jars of old meat maturing in a cool shed  - I rather like the smell of high meat  >D

Fresh green herbs warm fermented overnight in a un-cleaned high meat jar plus some broad spectrum pro-biotics, drink some and then mix in freshly blended leaves. Its interesting that the high meat taste is still there after many top ups with fresh mixture.

2 weeks ago after reading how onions, leaks etc could feed gut microbes, which would then send out 'alls well, we're doing great' signals to our nervous system, I made a batch of blended raw leaks inoculated with the correct microbe - it still tastes a bit strong so I've put it on the warmer to mature.

Yesterday got a jar each of diced fish & meat, inoculated with the BOD microbe, and now have it warming, so will report on that soon.

Then on the final frontier today I have started a beef yoghurt experiment by blending a cup of organic beef with a quarter cup of BOD yoghurt and placed on warming pad.

Also have been feeding the BOD yoghurt to our hens so they can spread it into the garden.

 -d

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on August 20, 2012, 02:11:56 pm
Thanks, I am thinking of putting it in a plastic bag and into the fridge, and just hope the smell doesn't go everywhere. For me it is starting to smell less and less bad. Every time I stir it and air it out I get a good whiff and I did not like the early stage of decomposition. As it ages and is now becoming more black and green, it smells more like the sea.

What are BOD microbes?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Alive on August 20, 2012, 05:13:22 pm
This is the B.O.D. strain of Bifidus (Bacillus Laterosporus) which is claimed to be effective in dealing with candida imbalances at http://www.vibrationalmedicine.com/images/Candida_Article.pdf (http://www.vibrationalmedicine.com/images/Candida_Article.pdf)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Polyvore on August 20, 2012, 05:41:16 pm
Thanks again!

There was talk a while ago about mixing things in with the high meat to see how it promoted different bacteria, and you are now talking about herb high water. I just happened to come across this today:

" Infused oils have the potential to support the growth of C. botulinum bacteria. These products may cause great harm if not made and stored properly. "

If you are to continue doing your herb high waters I would either keep them aired when storing, or simply stick to eating them fresh.

" ...conditions that favor growth of C. botulinum are met: low acid environment with pH higher than 4.6, anaerobic conditions (oil), food and moisture source (garlic), not boiled before eating. " - http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09340.html (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09340.html)

" Putrescine (sometimes spelled putrescin or putrescene) is an organic chemical compound NH2(CH2)4NH2 (1,4-diaminobutane or butanediamine).

It is related to cadaverine; both are produced by the breakdown of amino acids in living and dead organisms. The two compounds are largely responsible for the foul odor of putrefying flesh. The pH values I've found for putrescine range from 9.8- 10.0 so it is BASIC. That explains the change in pH. " - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100915161351AAHrhU9 (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100915161351AAHrhU9)

Garlic has a pH of 7.3, and as our meat rots the pH gets higher and higher, so perhaps adding a small amount of dilute citric acid may be healthy at the start of our batches? I assume later, and after much airing, the older generations of bacteria fight off botulism very well, so there is no need to add citric at the start. This is just a theory though, I am no expert. It could be that botulism grows best in a certain pH range like ph7-8, and then when it is above or below this it does not grow well. Of course the amount of airing that happens is also important, I am just going into more detail.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Alive on August 21, 2012, 09:02:41 am
All of my 'experiments' have plenty of available oxygen.
None are suspended in oil to prevent oxygen migration.
The blended cultures are especially high in oxygen, as the blending mixes in billions of tiny bubbles, although they also need more oxygen since they have a vast surface area due to the smaller particle size.

I would worry more about meat rapped in plastic, like in the supermarket, as then there will be no oxygen flow.

I have been wondering if unglazed crockery jars would let enough oxygen through to get the good microbes going in a high meat culture?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Adora on August 21, 2012, 09:53:59 pm
Hi Polyvore, I just saw your question. I'm not into maggots, but what you said is reasonable. I don't like plastic, but if you do it once for your first learning experiment, and air it out between, I understand not wanting the smell all over. Can't you just get a good jar from a second hand shop, or buy some new lids if it's a mason jar? I would eat a piece of your meat after airing 3+x/day for a day or 2 until the aroma is milder. Then 1 small chunk and see what that does. Repeat the next day with frequent airing if day one goes well.  I like a little caution with new things. Soon enough you will be an expert. I love the tought and ingenuity you and Alive are sharing here. Thanks
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: LePatron7 on August 21, 2012, 11:26:30 pm
Thanks, I am thinking of putting it in a plastic bag and into the fridge, and just hope the smell doesn't go everywhere. For me it is starting to smell less and less bad. Every time I stir it and air it out I get a good whiff and I did not like the early stage of decomposition. As it ages and is now becoming more black and green, it smells more like the sea.

What are BOD microbes?

I wouldn't use a bag. I remember reading something on the forum about dangerous microbes growing in plastic bags.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Alive on August 23, 2012, 02:39:38 pm
The beef yogurt and fermented leeks went well - after 48 hours of warm fermenting they both smelled fine and tasted good together. The beef had a mild smell and light acid taste, and warm fermenting the leeks calmed them down nicely.   >D
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Alive on October 17, 2012, 09:06:46 am
1 month ground ripened fish wrapped in leaves to make a high fish sushi roll - I really am feeling pretty happy right know after eating all of those beneficial soil bacteria :) lol

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eI6m4G5p-r0/UH398y73zSI/AAAAAAAAARY/qdWvi9g6sj0/s741/IMAG1044.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v6MxdwKcwkQ/UH3985UTSdI/AAAAAAAAARc/P6VQpQBwSFc/s903/IMAG1045.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-266QWv8v_P4/UH3984mj6ZI/AAAAAAAAARU/jiGtUa6rYY8/s100-p-k/IMAG1046.jpg)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: LePatron7 on October 17, 2012, 01:46:19 pm
1 month ground ripened fish wrapped in leaves to make a high fish sushi roll - I really am feeling pretty happy right know after eating all of those beneficial soil bacteria :) lol

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eI6m4G5p-r0/UH398y73zSI/AAAAAAAAARY/qdWvi9g6sj0/s741/IMAG1044.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v6MxdwKcwkQ/UH3985UTSdI/AAAAAAAAARc/P6VQpQBwSFc/s903/IMAG1045.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-266QWv8v_P4/UH3984mj6ZI/AAAAAAAAARU/jiGtUa6rYY8/s100-p-k/IMAG1046.jpg)

It looks like you basically buried the fish in dirt, right?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Alive on October 17, 2012, 02:24:23 pm
@DaBoss = yes, this gutted fish was going stinky after a week in the fridge so I buried it in the vege garden for a month to mature :)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: LePatron7 on October 17, 2012, 02:31:26 pm
@DaBoss = yes, this gutted fish was going stinky after a week in the fridge so I buried it in the vege garden for a month to mature :)

Interesting. What do you do to it once you take it out of the dirt? Do you rinse it with water then eat?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Alive on October 17, 2012, 02:52:18 pm
I just brushed off the big lumps of dirt and ate the small bits that stayed stuck to the fish. In the middle photo the dark spots are dirt. Wild animals eat their food off the dirt and are always ingesting it. Babies eat it to prepare their digestive and immune systems. The dirt has had lots of llama poo and kitchen scraps composted into it over the years, and is a favorite digging spot for the hens. Good natural dirt is good for you :)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: LePatron7 on October 17, 2012, 02:54:35 pm
I just brushed off the big lumps of dirt and ate the small bits that stayed stuck to the fish. In the middle photo the dark spots are dirt. Good healthy dirt is good to eat :)

Sounds interesting. You're brave lol
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Endless on November 05, 2012, 01:29:14 pm
Is there any benefit to adding a bit of liquid whey when starting a batch of high meat? Would it encourage beneficial bacteria like it does when making lactofermented vegetables?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Nora on January 06, 2013, 06:57:26 am
I've started making and eating high meat very recently. Since I am in a hurry for it to be ready I am making most of it (5 quart jars) at room temperature (70 degrees fahrenheit). I also have one quart jar in the fridge. The jar in the fridge is not doing much but the jars at room temperature are fermenting rather quickly. The first jar, which I started about a week ago has just now reached the point where the taste is unpleasant to me so I simply swallow a bite of tiny pieces without chewing.

My question is:
Why do so many of the directions I read recommend fermenting the meat in the fridge rather than at room temperature, when it is so much quicker at room temperature? Is the result better when it is fermented in the fridge?

I do make sure to air each jar and stir up each jar at least once every 24 hours, whether in the fridge or at room temp. I will be going away for 3.5 days next week though so I will put all of my jars in the fridge a day before I go so that they can survive without being aired while I am gone. Is it possible to go away for more than 3 or 4 days when one has high meat in the process of fermentation? What is the longest that it can stay in the fridge without being aired?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: jessica on January 06, 2013, 07:17:02 am
just leave them open while you are gone.......they may dry out a bit
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 06, 2013, 08:46:54 am
It's generally recommended by Aajonus to air the meats at least  once every 3 days for 5 minutes, when leaving it in the fridge. I found that once a day was best re aeration. 3.5 to 4 days isn't the end of the world, just air the meats fully before and after, exposing every part for several minutes each.

The reason why people prefer making "high-meat" in the fridge is that  such meat is relatively immune to flies, provided that you eat it quick once it's outside the fridge. Flies deposit their eggs on rotting meat in ingenious ways, which then develop into live, wriggling maggots, which most RVAFers are still squeamish about eating. Also, I found that leaving raw meat outside the fridge to rot  encouraged the meat to dry. Once dried, the benefits re aging stopped completely. It seems that bacteria thrive on slime.

Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Nora on January 06, 2013, 11:37:12 am
Thanks for the information.
At this time of year I do not seem to have any flies in my house, and after reading about how ingenious flies can be about laying eggs around the lid I have been putting my closed jars of high meat in gallon zip lock bags as another layer of protection to keep any stray fly from finding the jars and accessing the lids.
Regarding the suggestion of keeping the jars open in my fridge while I am away: I feel certain that the jars would smell up my fridge and I do not want that. I guess I'll just air them out and then hope for the best while I am away.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 06, 2013, 05:46:25 pm
One guy who preferred to air his "high-meat" outside used 2 plastic bin bags over the container. I just bury the plastic container in a hole in the soil.  I don't think it matters if one leaves the meat unaerated for up to a week, but it's a good idea to leave all parts of the meat well exposed to the air afterwards, say 5 minutes at least.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Nora on January 06, 2013, 06:42:18 pm
So Tyler, are you saying that you leave your high meat container buried in a hole in the ground at all times between airings, instead of keeping it in the fridge or anywhere in the house?

I have not been airing my jars for 5 minutes, I've only been doing it long enough to believe that I have exchanged the air in the jar for fresh air. I take the lid off and hold my arm out while I spin around in circles with the jar facing into the flow of air to get the air current to exchange the air in the jar as quickly as possible. I think I've only been keeping the lid off for about one minute each time. I stir the meat around with a fork before I spin around and again after, and then I replace the lid.
Perhaps I need to instead open all jars at once and just sit there watching them so nothing gets into them while I leave them open for a full 5 minutes. Do you think that would be better?

My jars of meat started at the same time, (or within one day of each other) do not smell the same. It seems like different bacteria predominate in different jars. Also some of the jars build up a bit of pressure inside between airings and others do not. Does all this seem okay? This is my first time making high meat so I am not really sure if it is working correctly or not. I have been eating a bite out of the very first jar I started (a week ago) each time I air it. I am not certain if it is affecting me or not. I think I may be feeling a slight positive effect from it, unless I am imagining it because I want and expect a positive effect.

I bought a new kind of raw milk cheese today which I have never tried before. It is called Fontina. When I tasted it I thought it seemed remarkably familiar, like I recognized the flavor from somewhere. Then it dawned on me, it tastes very much like my high meat! Someone else mentioned that their high meat tasted like Gorgonzola cheese. I think it was Inger. I wonder if the same types of bacteria grow naturally in high meat as the ones that cheeses get inoculated with, or perhaps just form on their own.

I read in AV's book that one should not eat a lot of meat if they are in a "weight loss cycle". Any idea why that is? I would like to lose 20 lbs., and I also want the benefits of high meat at the same time.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 06, 2013, 07:06:37 pm
So Tyler, are you saying that you leave your high meat container buried in a hole in the ground at all times between airings, instead of keeping it in the fridge or anywhere in the house?
Yes. I have no choice as in urban settings I am not allowed to put any "high-meat" in soil, and when on holiday in a rural setting I am not allowed to put any high-meat inside the house. There are just too many SAD-eaters who are scared of any potential smell.
Quote
I have not been airing my jars for 5 minutes, I've only been doing it long enough to believe that I have exchanged the air in the jar for fresh air. I take the lid off and hold my arm out while I spin around in circles with the jar facing into the flow of air to get the air current to exchange the air in the jar as quickly as possible. I think I've only been keeping the lid off for about one minute each time. I stir the meat around with a fork before I spin around and again after, and then I replace the lid.
Yeah, that seems fine. No real need to air for 5 minutes, the main thing is to refresh the air in the container and make sure that as much as possible of the meat is exposed to the air, if possible.

Quote
My jars of meat started at the same time, (or within one day of each other) do not smell the same. It seems like different bacteria predominate in different jars. Also some of the jars build up a bit of pressure inside between airings and others do not. Does all this seem okay?
Perfectly normal, it's fine.

Quote
This is my first time making high meat so I am not really sure if it is working correctly or not. I have been eating a bite out of the very first jar I started (a week ago) each time I air it. I am not certain if it is affecting me or not. I think I may be feeling a slight positive effect from it, unless I am imagining it because I want and expect a positive effect.

I bought a new kind of raw milk cheese today which I have never tried before. It is called Fontina. When I tasted it I thought it seemed remarkably familiar, like I recognized the flavor from somewhere. Then it dawned on me, it tastes very much like my high meat! Someone else mentioned that their high meat tasted like Gorgonzola cheese. I think it was Inger. I wonder if the same types of bacteria grow naturally in high meat as the ones that cheeses get inoculated with, or perhaps just form on their own.

I read in AV's book that one should not eat a lot of meat if they are in a "weight loss cycle". Any idea why that is? I would like to lose 20 lbs., and I also want the benefits of high meat at the same time.
Yes, high-meat does taste a lot like rotting cheese. Since I'm allergic to dairy, I rather like this aspect.

if you're not sure if the high-meat is affecting you, I would suggest waiting a few more days and then increasing the amounts eaten each time. Also don't expect instant effects. I never experienced an effect until the next day after I'd eaten any high-meat - no idea why.

Re weight-loss:- The benefit of "high-meat" is that the bacteria therein predigest the meat almost completely. I have done experiments where I ate high-meat only for several days at a time, and very little came out the other end. I wouldn't view it as a weight-gaining food like fresh, raw meat might be. Of course, cooked animal food consumption  causes far bigger weight-gain for various other reasons.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Nora on January 06, 2013, 07:13:54 pm
Thanks for all your help Tyler  :)
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: MarkC on January 07, 2013, 03:47:19 am
I am making high meat for the first time. I have two Mason/Ball jars with diced venison in one and diced mackerel in the other. I am aerating them for about 30 seconds every day out in the garden, then they go back in my fridge. I just leave the cap off the jars for a half-minute and watch that nothing flies inside. Everything seems to be progressing fine but it's only been two weeks since I begun so I have not tasted it yet. It smells pretty good to me now. Here's the question.

QUESTION: the meat is diced into half-inch cubes. The jars are one quart/one litre, half filled with meat. Do I need to churn the chunks around so that the oxygen reaches the cubes at the bottom of the jar when I aerate. The pieces of fish at the bottom are pretty much stuck to the jar. Do I need to worry about anaerobic bacteria developing in the bits pressed up against the glass at the bottom? I could just churn it for safety but I was wondering if that's really necessary.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 07, 2013, 04:32:21 am
Well, I consider it necessary. May be just my imagination but I found that the high-meat effect was not as effective with meat that was not properly or regularly aerated.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Nora on January 08, 2013, 06:31:25 am
For some unknown reason one of my 5 jars of fermenting high meat is sort of drying out and not fermenting as well as the other 4. I really don't know what I could have done differently with that one. The other 4 are all red and bloody and wet but this one is more brownish and sticky. I think it needs to be wetter to ferment properly. Adding water did not feel quite right to me, so I had this other idea. I had about 2 oz. of blood saved from frozen grass-fed Tibetan Yak liver in my freezer, so I thawed that and added it to the jar. It has moistened it all up really nicely. Now it remains to be seen whether it gets "higher".

Another interesting development, and a question:
I have had some grass fed beef dry aging on a plate in my fridge for about 10 days (turning them regularly). Just this morning I have noticed the first sign of a dry-ish mold growing on the edges of the meat. I am assuming that those moldy parts of the meat are good to eat just as they are. Correct? I think I'll wait for some confirmation from those of you more experienced RAFers before I take the plunge and eat my first ever meat-mold. It does not smell high or fermented or anything. It just smells like a more concentrated meat-smell.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 08, 2013, 06:33:56 am
Mold on meat whether dried or wet is fine to eat. I've never heard of issues with it.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Alive on January 08, 2013, 01:21:04 pm
Thinking on how to avoid the effort of opening high meat jars to air them got me thinking about a breathable jar lid. First up to try was to cut up a clean vacuum cleaner bag as the lid, since it is dense enough to stop maggots getting through, and porous enough for gas exchange. I have just started off a batch of diced liver to see if this works.  O0
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: cherimoya_kid on January 09, 2013, 09:08:40 pm
Thinking on how to avoid the effort of opening high meat jars to air them got me thinking about a breathable jar lid. First up to try was to cut up a clean vacuum cleaner bag as the lid, since it is dense enough to stop maggots getting through, and porous enough for gas exchange. I have just started off a batch of diced liver to see if this works.  O0

I would just use a piece of panty hose. stretched fairly tight over the surface of the jar.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: MarkC on January 10, 2013, 10:53:59 pm
Thanks Tyler, I've started churning it and aerating for a few seconds every day, it's coming along really well and smells good! I can't wait to taste it.

Do you find fatty meat or fatty fish ferment better or worse than lean meat or white fish?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 10, 2013, 11:09:23 pm
Thanks Tyler, I've started churning it and aerating for a few seconds every day, it's coming along really well and smells good! I can't wait to taste it.

Do you find fatty meat or fatty fish ferment better or worse than lean meat or white fish?
Hmm, I've tried a wide number of fermented raw meats, and the only ones I ever really liked re taste were raw beef/ox heart(minus all the white fat) and raw beef/ox tongue(c.50-60% fat). They all seemed to age really well, but the problem was that I found that most raw aged muscle-meat became seemingly highly toxic to me once it reached the "high-meat" stage(but only then), and I just found the taste of raw aged seafood, aged raw eggs  to taste foul.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Alive on March 02, 2013, 07:43:36 am
The high liver with the breathable lid worked well, coming out high and slightly dried. The high beef got covered in a white mould so I have gone back to a solid lid for that and now the mould has died off and vanished.

I don't have panty hose CK, but coffee filters seem another good option for this.

This morning I dug up an old hock of lamb that has been buried in our organic garden for several months. The meat had disappeared so I ate some of the better preserved dry fatty bits, and added pieces to a new batch of high beef heart to inoculate it with good bacteria from the ground.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: van on March 02, 2013, 11:05:41 am
I keep mine outside  in a plastic beach cooler with a stone on top. It sits in the shade only.   i stir with a knife at least once a day and spin in circles with the jar lid off to get fresh air in. 
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dr. D on June 24, 2013, 07:46:32 am
Do we have a bit of a consensus on whether or not meat that was frozen will get high? I've got 2 week old lamb liver that was frozen.

Sounds like the word on the street is heart is tasty-est when made high?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: favetelinguis on July 06, 2013, 11:49:44 am
I have not tried aged meat yet but to me it is strange that one are using a aerobic process when the human body is anerobic and the bacteria in the meat will die when eaten? Might it be the endotixins created by the dying bacteria that we react to and not the living bacteria inside us?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: eveheart on July 06, 2013, 02:28:17 pm
Do we have a bit of a consensus on whether or not meat that was frozen will get high? I've got 2 week old lamb liver that was frozen.

Sounds like the word on the street is heart is tasty-est when made high?

Not on my street! My tastiest morsels of liver and heart are either fresh or aged by hanging them in the refrigerator. Aged is a stronger taste, an acquired taste.

High meat is a "morsel" or "spoonful" food, as far as I'm concerned. If someone makes a whole meal of high meat, then I say to that person, "U da man!"
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Dr. D on July 07, 2013, 10:38:22 am
I've often wondered how nutritional the high meat is. In terms of fuel. I know ot greatly benefits well being. I enjoy it already. But every meal for a week, how would that turn out? Does AV do that?

I know fruits and veggies lose the nutrient content as they age (50% total nutrients 4 days after being cut). Does it work the same for meat, or does it no biodegrade that way?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Sorentus on March 10, 2014, 05:48:40 am
So can I make high meat from a stainless steel pot? I have been having grounded beef in a stainless steel pot covered by a metal lid and it gets better every day, is that safe?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: FRANCIS HOWARD BOND on May 15, 2015, 01:24:52 am
I have tried high chicken and can confirm it tastes great!   Never tried high pork has anyone else?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: NeoHomoSapien on January 02, 2016, 07:53:24 am
What about eggs, has anyone tried making high raw eggs?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: cherimoya_kid on January 02, 2016, 09:13:42 am
I've often wondered how nutritional the high meat is. In terms of fuel. I know ot greatly benefits well being. I enjoy it already. But every meal for a week, how would that turn out? Does AV do that?

I know fruits and veggies lose the nutrient content as they age (50% total nutrients 4 days after being cut). Does it work the same for meat, or does it no biodegrade that way?

It becomes higher in some nutrients, like vitamin K-2, and lower in others, like vitamin C. Many nutrients are mostly unaffected, like minerals.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 02, 2016, 08:07:42 pm
What about eggs, has anyone tried making high raw eggs?
  I have tried eating raw "high" eggs. It was a disaster for me. Everyone is different, I found I could only handle raw, aged heart or raw, aged tongue for my "high-meat". Anything else either tasted bland or too disgusting for words. Many others can easily handle raw "high" fish or raw "high" muscle-meat  or raw "high" eggs etc.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on January 02, 2016, 08:09:25 pm
Eating high-meat every meal for a week is a good idea as  it replenishes the body's bacteria levels. However, in time, the beneficial effect the excess bacteria in high-meat have on the immune-system and one's well-being tends to disappear after a time as the body gets used to the bacteria, so that one has to leave a pause for a few months and then start again.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: dariorpl on March 20, 2016, 06:04:44 pm
Plastic is a very bad idea for high meats as all the digestive juices that the bacteria produce to break down the meat will make the plastic leech BPAs and all sort of other toxins over time. Plastic top is fine though, as that wouldn't be in direct contact with the meat or the juices.

Regarding botulism, I'm not sure but I think that the real danger with botulism is when the bacteria are feeding on cooked foods. Most of the cases of botulism come from canned foods, which are always cooked. Although I would air the container often just in case.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: ciervo-chaman on June 08, 2016, 07:52:00 am
Any advice/recipe to age eggs?
Going to make a mix of clayey soil with wood ash. And cover eggs with that mix.

But would like to try other way too!

Ideas?? What about fermenting whole uncracked eggs on liquid? What have you tried?

I have tried 6 eggs that were sitting rolled on newspaper for 1 year. And some of them are delicious.. Some very amonium strong flavor (itchs in the throat if not ensalivated enough)
But they kinda dried.. They are not like century eggs that seems to keep all moisture within the egg
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: cherimoya_kid on June 08, 2016, 09:04:58 am
Plastic is a very bad idea for high meats as all the digestive juices that the bacteria produce to break down the meat will make the plastic leech BPAs and all sort of other toxins over time. Plastic top is fine though, as that wouldn't be in direct contact with the meat or the juices.

Regarding botulism, I'm not sure but I think that the real danger with botulism is when the bacteria are feeding on cooked foods. Most of the cases of botulism come from canned foods, which are always cooked. Although I would air the container often just in case.

They have cases of botulism with raw wild game meat pretty often in Alaska. It's the lack of oxygen that causes it.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Healthiswealth on November 27, 2016, 05:28:23 am
    I do it twice a day. 

Hey, Hope all is well!

I have a question regarding probiotic. I read the book "The Raw Paleo Diet" and it stated that we don't need probiotic supplements if we're on a raw paleo diet because we get it from the raw meat we're eating. I see that people are always taking probiotics. How do I know if I'm missing or need to take probiotic?

 Also, I see you make your own high meat. Is it possible you can share the recipe on how to make my own at home? What amount do you eat of it and how often do you eat it?

Thanks!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Healthiswealth on November 27, 2016, 05:32:15 am
    I do it twice a day. 

Hey, Hope all is well!

I have a question regarding probiotic. I read the book "The Raw Paleo Diet" and it stated that we don't need probiotic supplements if we're on a raw paleo diet because we get it from the raw meat we're eating. I see that people are always taking probiotics. How do I know if I'm missing or need to take probiotic?

 Also, I see you make your own high meat. Is it possible you can share the recipe on how to make my own at home? What amount do you eat of it and how often do you eat it?

Thanks!
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Core on February 09, 2017, 12:27:41 am
The top of my high meat is covered in green stuff and some bubble action is happening. Is that ok or should I throw it out? Its been maybe 2 weeks total and I forgot to air it for a few days, not sure if its still good?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on February 09, 2017, 04:55:21 am
The top of my high meat is covered in green stuff and some bubble action is happening. Is that ok or should I throw it out? Its been maybe 2 weeks total and I forgot to air it for a few days, not sure if its still good?
Generally, it's not recommended to eat raw high-meat that has been without exposure to oxygen on a regular basis(at least once very 2-3 days). The idea is that the Inuit sometimes got infected by botulism if they left their raw meats in an unaerated environment  for too long(ie underground under a rock for example). In my own case,  I have sometimes left certain raw meats in vacuum-packs(ie no oxygen) in the fridge at a lowish setting  for a few days and it did not bother me. However, after 7-10 days, the raw-meat would taste extremely foul and I would have to throw it away, unlike the standard high-meat I used which was regularly exposed to oxygen. The latter(once I got psychologically used to the taste!) generally tasted like an excellent aged, raw cheese, more or less.
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: Core on February 09, 2017, 10:17:58 am
What about green stuff and bubbles? Is that normal on high meat?
Title: Re: High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers
Post by: TylerDurden on February 09, 2017, 02:35:13 pm
What about green stuff and bubbles? Is that normal on high meat?
I doubt it. That said,  when consuming normal, aerated "high-meat", I have often seen molds and funguses form of various colours which posed no problems re health. However, given the fact that the high-meat has been left  unaerated for so  long , I would strongly advise against eating it. Just try out another batch. My own rule is to avoid eating any "high-meat" left in the fridge or under the ground that I have forgotten to aearate for more than 3-4 days.