Author Topic: Bad news for vegetarians! If you want grandchildren, make sure you eat MEAT  (Read 5269 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Offline goodsamaritan

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May explain why there are no vegan tribes.

Offline TylerDurden

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There was some reference to a study  online(can't find it any more) re an Iranian tribe that was 100% vegan and which avoided B12 deficiencies by using "night-soil"(human excrement), with B12-rich bacteria in it, as fertiliser for their plants. Plus, of course, even the strictest religious vegans in a non-modern society would have inevitably eaten some insects with their  vegan produce, if they did not wash the veg throughly beforehand.
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Offline sabertooth

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Technically Night soil is not vegetarian.... Bactria, nematodes, microscopic organisms are all consumed by even the most anal Durrian types, as well as by animals which are labeled herbivores. Ruminants actually are bacteria-vors who get their life force from colonies of gut bacteria that break down the plant matter.

The vegan agenda does a terrible job at providing trans-generational evidence that would prove their way of life is sustainable.
Among the more vegetarian-ish tribes that have flourished, they have practices which include, in some way shape or form, the use of small amounts of non vegetarian foods. So the Claim that people could live and thrive from generation to generation on entirely vegetarian diets, cannot be proven.
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Offline dariorpl

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In all fairness, what does a study on fruit flies have to do with humans?

Also, I would like to know the types of foods fed to each group. terms like "high and low protein" can both mean very unnatural foods for the flies' diet.

Also, there is protein in fruits and in other foods which the flies consume, the question is whether the flies can utilize it effectively.
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Offline cobalamin

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Technically Night soil is not vegetarian.... Bactria, nematodes, microscopic organisms are all consumed by even the most anal Durrian types, as well as by animals which are labeled herbivores. Ruminants actually are bacteria-vors who get their life force from colonies of gut bacteria that break down the plant matter.

The vegan agenda does a terrible job at providing trans-generational evidence that would prove their way of life is sustainable.
Among the more vegetarian-ish tribes that have flourished, they have practices which include, in some way shape or form, the use of small amounts of non vegetarian foods. So the Claim that people could live and thrive from generation to generation on entirely vegetarian diets, cannot be proven.

It can easily be proven that we aren't strict omnivores. History has proven time and time again that the majority of humans falsely believed something until someone came out to shine their bright light in a world full of darkness.

Offline sabertooth

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Nowhere did I ever say that humans were "strict ominvors"? and if you have any light to shine please feel free to try to prove me wrong?

I have testified time and time again that we are apex adaptivores whose diet has evolved along with us. There is an ebb and flow from one extreme to another through our entire evolutionary history. Our earliest proto primate ancestors were carnivorous tree weasels that subsisted on insects and tiny animals, then we swung more toward herbivious tree monkeys, then to omnivorous great apes, and then into Apex Hunting omnivores.

During our change from tree monkey-to great ape- to Human raw meat was an essential part of what allowed for the development of our large brains and other supernatural abilities. Generally speaking no other strictly herbavorian creature known has been able to match the intelligence of carnivores. Eating copious amounts of meat is what turned our early ancestors into the cyber sentient beings of the current era.

Any attempt to revert back to herbovorian ways of life will in my opinion trigger a reversion back to smaller frames and weaker minds....though if you are into that kind of thing I wont try to stop you.
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Offline dariorpl

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I think we are opportunistic eaters. We can and will eat whatever is available. Our powerful brains, dexterous hands and the use of tools and planning have allowed us to acquire all sorts of foods in many different types of environments. The question here is what our ideal diet would be like, rather than what we can eat.

With any other non-domesticated animal, when determining what their ideal diet consists of, researchers would look at what that animal typically would be able to eat in the wild.

If one looks at what's available in the wild for humans to eat, while it does vary from one environment to another, in the raw, it's basically the same as what most bears eat. In the north pole and other northern very cold areas, polar bears will live on meat only, just like the humans who inhabit such areas. In other areas, while meat will still mostly play a crucial role, there are other foods available, such as fruits/berries, some mild herbs and bulbs/root vegetables and nuts and seeds and mushrooms that are not overly toxic, as well as insects, worms, honey and eggs.

Once humans developed cooking, however, more food sources became available, as there are many plants which are toxic or inedible raw, but become mild and edible when cooked. This is the case in particular with root vegetables and with nuts and seeds, notably with grains and legumes, which are generally a type of seed.

Then, with the development of agriculture, human diets were no longer bound by that which was available, but to an extent by that which they wanted to produce, or perhaps to another extent, by that which they could produce in enough quantities given scarce land, water and other resources.

In time, people learned to make intentionally fermented, refined or prepared foods and meals, such as wine, sugar, cheese, tea, and more recently hot dogs and icecream, then canned foods and potato chips, candy, and so on. Now much of our food is treated with artificial pesticides and is genetically modified, then treated in large factories and packed, often with additional artificial preservatives, then shipped over long distances, and it can sit in a shelf, often at room temperature, for extended periods of time before rotting.

The question then is, at what point do we make the cut, and say, this far is when we're gonna say we were no longer eating the foods that our wild ancestors would've been eating on a regular basis, and which were probably healthy for them (and thus, likely, for us too)?
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Offline dariorpl

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I just wanted to add that while insects, grubs and worms can provide nutrition, I myself have never intentionally eaten any. I don't know if my repulsion to eating them is inculcated or if it's instinct as well. But I don't remember seeing one of them and thinking to myself "that could be food", or wanting to investigate what they taste like. Although I hear tales about how my mother had to get rid of a flyswatter because as a baby I was always grabbing it and trying to eat it. I wonder if as a baby I wanted to investigate what fly squashes tasted like.

There's a case to be made that humans are not supposed to eat animals that are that small. I don't know, if we see prey, our instinct is to be drawn to it, whether to chase it down if it's running, or to pet it, protect and/or feed it, let it reproduce and keep it closeby so that when it's time to eat, we can kill it more easily. But with insects, it's to get rid of them, because they annoy us, and I don't see myself trying to catch them so that I can eat them. I don't know. The only insects we generally favor are usually the ones which eat other insects which are even more annoying to us. With worms, we can also favor them if they're composting our organic leftovers and garbage in order to feed the plants that we will then eat, or the plants that we will feed to our animals which we will eat. But I really don't see myself or most humans picking through a compost pile for a snack of fresh worms. Rather, I'd let the chickens eat the worms, then I eat the chickens and their eggs.
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Offline cobalamin

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Nowhere did I ever say that humans were "strict ominvors"? and if you have any light to shine please feel free to try to prove me wrong?

I have testified time and time again that we are apex adaptivores whose diet has evolved along with us. There is an ebb and flow from one extreme to another through our entire evolutionary history. Our earliest proto primate ancestors were carnivorous tree weasels that subsisted on insects and tiny animals, then we swung more toward herbivious tree monkeys, then to omnivorous great apes, and then into Apex Hunting omnivores.

During our change from tree monkey-to great ape- to Human raw meat was an essential part of what allowed for the development of our large brains and other supernatural abilities. Generally speaking no other strictly herbavorian creature known has been able to match the intelligence of carnivores. Eating copious amounts of meat is what turned our early ancestors into the cyber sentient beings of the current era.

Any attempt to revert back to herbovorian ways of life will in my opinion trigger a reversion back to smaller frames and weaker minds....though if you are into that kind of thing I wont try to stop you.


Nice storytelling.

Your belief that we don't produce Vitamin B12 is an indication that you believe we are strict omnivores. We are omnivores for survival purposes just like every other non-carnivorous animal.

With great power comes great responsibility. I will shine my light when it feels right.

The biochemistry science isn't on your side regarding cranial growth. Big land carnivores still have puny 350cc cranials and puny genitals from consuming a lot of meat. Sure they have big frames but that's nothing. There isn't any land carnivores with big cranials. None!

Read these regarding cranial growth...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotrophin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostaglandin

To understand this...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1016/S0014-5793(04)00246-7/pdf

Human societies that consume more Omega 3 fatty acids than Omega 6 fatty acids have smaller cranials and smaller sexual organs. Those who consume more Omega 6 fatty acids from whole foods are more technologically advanced.

Offline dariorpl

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What nonsense are you talking about, cobalamin?

For the most part in the animal kingdom, intelligence can more or less be correlated with whether or not meat constitutes a staple of an animals' diet or not. Carnivores and omnivores lead the charts in sharpness, with hervibores largely at the top of the dull category.

The reason why is simple, herd animals only need a herd mentality to survive, as long as they stay and move with the herd, their chances are good. Predators need to understand the complex behavior and tendencies of the prey, often to a better extent than the prey themselves understand it. Herd animals need not worry about understanding predator behavior, all they need to know is that if they run faster than their peers and avoid the predators while another one in their herd gets caught, they will survive. It's the predator which has to choose the prey who is the weakest, the one which will tire the fastest, the one more likely to trip over itself, the one least likely to kick and injure the predator, the one which will provide the most and the highest quality meat... It's the predator which needs to determine the stalking position, when to launch the chase, the attack vector, how to read and predict the prey's next movement. If it's worth it to lead the prey towards a natural obstacle where they will be trapped. Whether to go straight for the throat or to weaken the prey by attacking the extremities first... It always takes a lot more brain power to understand the brain and body functions of another, lesser animal. That's why, even if they tried, herd animals can't understand predators, in particular pack hunters. So they don't even try, for the most part.

Wolves, lions, dolphins, chimpanzees, humans, and all other pack hunters need not only understand their prey's behavior, but also coordinate attacks with their pack members. That takes even more intelligence.
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Offline sabertooth

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I dont appreciate people putting words in my mouth, especially when someone acts all high and mighty as if the have gotten the best of the argument, while failing to prove anything? So far I've seen no evidence to warrant such vile denigration of my personal views on this subject as they are stated in previous post?  Feel free to use real quotes in response to any matter of contention, but please do not resort to retorting with vague assumptions and condescending banter.

That said I have claimed in the past that Typically people on exclusively vegetarian diets cannot enough B12 on vegetable diets to fully thrive...but will recognize that there are some cases individuals who are able to generate enough from bacteria and composting vegetation to stave off deficiency...but the environmental conditions, dietary habits, and epigenetic propensity have to be just right.

Certain practices of using night soil, or eating copious amounts of soil microbes, prebiotics and other beneficial bacterial rich foods( Which technically are a form of animal life) may enable some individuals to live well off a vegetarian based diet...but for the most part most people who attempt to go vegetarian will not and cannot replicate these conditions to the point where they can claim any trans generational success?

Most of the people on this forum are not dogmatically professing that it is impossible for some individuals to do well on vegetarian based diets, indeed there are examples of people converting over to vegetarianism and living seemingly health lives, but that does not mean it will work for everyone. Many people here have reacted very negatively to vegetarian diets, and so can recommend that vegetarian based diets are not  optimal for everyone....  we have yet to see examples of thriving populations of trans-generational herbivorian people....they simple do not exist! To the contrary there are countless examples of born again vegans who foolishly force their habit upon the young and ill informed, with dire consequences. You see the poor things in the check out line at the local health-food stores, or farmers market...loading up on fruit juices, processed nut milk...and perhaps some legumes for protein. Many of the children I have seen raised vegetarian have small frames, are near sighted, and possess a number of unhealthy looking features.

Based on personal experience and research along with anecdotal evidence based on what has been gleaned from the collective experience of people on the forum, I audaciously proclaim "vegetarianism is soooo not paleo!!" Dont get me wrong I am not saying that it is theoretically impossible for children to grow up to be healthy on "mostly" vegetarian based foods.... there is the one example of the wild boy who was raised by orangutans, who ate primarily vegetarian along with some insects, and there are wild tribes of people who live very close to vegetarian... but as for dogmatic vegetarianism as is typically practiced by westerners I have seen no evidence of it being a trans-generationally viable way for humans to live...to the contrary I see it as it is most often practiced in the west as a form of child negligence and a crime against human nature.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Hmm, SB , I think, meant to say "veganism", rather than "vegetarianism".
“The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. "Ayn Rand

Offline dariorpl

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Hmm, SB , I think, meant to say "veganism", rather than "vegetarianism".

There really isn't much difference. Vegetarianism used to mean those who eat vegetation/vegetables only, meaning plants. What is now generally referred to as vegetarians in the west used to be called lacto-ovo vegetarians, meaning they also consumed dairy and eggs, in contrast to strict vegetarians who consumed no animal products, except perhaps for honey. I guess seeing honey as an animal product is a new development in western dietary thought.

This was all a mere 20 years ago or so, so it's not like we're talking ancient history.

If I had to guess, I would say the difference between vegetarian and vegan was invented by radical militant vegetarians as a tool to shame and establish superiority over the lacto-ovo vegetarians for consuming animal products. i.e. "We're vegan, you're just a vegetarian"
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Offline sabertooth

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"So sick and tired of these ism schism games"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegetarianism
I meant vegetarianism in the broadest sense of the meaning which also encompasses veganism...generally speaking of people who eat only plants. Though I will agree that vegetarianism is likely a much more viable trans-generationally than veganism..both practices have failed to prove that they can be sustained over the course of multiple generations without significant negative effects.

Im not claiming that its impossible, only that I have yet to see evidence of long-term multi generational vegetarianism work in practice. Most people who have converted to that way of life are beneficiaries of millions of years of ancestral flesh consumption. With strong enough genetics and a good foundation, there are indeed examples of humans who convert over to vegetarian based diets in the middle of life and can maintain genuinely good health....but evidence suggest that after two or three generations the degeneration on an epigenetic level begins, where the body is unable to maintain its apex form and the brain, skeletal structure, and other tissues begin to atrophy.

Our gut size to brain size ratio is smaller than any other animal, it was never meant by nature for us to be able to maintain such a large and powerful brain with such a tiny gut, without the nourishment of animal foods...we would of never been able to evolve to such a high level of intelligence as herbivores.... .plenty of other animals indeed are designed differently and can thrive as herbivores...but this is not the human legacy.....

Im sure it is possible for some mutant strain of supper vegan( Perhaps Freely and Durians love child) to undergo the epigenic changes needed to pass on vegan gene adaptation, and after a few stunted generations the force of life will find a way as it has always done....but I doubt that such a race of vegans would be any match for a antithetical tribe of neo paleos who after generations of reverting back to the apex human evolutionary diet, would likely excel in nearly every facet of ability...with greater strength, speed, intellectual and sexual prowess.

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Offline dariorpl

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Im sure it is possible for some mutant strain of supper vegan( Perhaps Freely and Durians love child) to undergo the epigenic changes needed to pass on vegan gene adaptation, and after a few stunted generations the force of life will find a way as it has always done....

Unlikely. Durian's had a vasectomy and he encourages all of his male fans to do the same, and tells his female groupies to make their mates have vasectomies too. Freelee is pushing 40 and has made her new partner have a vasectomy as well.

From my perspective, that's a good development. We don't need more people like that in the world. Freelee is psychotic and has said that all meat eaters should be executed. Durian is now promoting sprite as a health drink. "It's fruit in a can", he says. I think this strict low-fat vegan diet tends to deteriorate the brain in the long term.

If anything, what I don't like is that many of their fans followed their advice and got a vasectomy, and now regret it, but there's little they can do about it, reversals may not work and even if they do, it's not the same as never having had that surgery done.
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Offline sabertooth

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I haven't followed the "digressions" of Freelee and Durian for sometime, but it does seem they are still the poster children for everything wrong with the vegetarian agenda....Perhaps on some subconscious instinctive level people like Durian and Freelee know that if they were to ever breed the resulting offspring would be an abomination, and so they put on this anti-reproduction front, to cover up the fact that the vegan way of life isn't conducive for producing viable offspring.

Also, the long term diet induced brain deterioration theory, may explain some of their general misanthropic anti-humanist attitudes???
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Offline TylerDurden

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It seems that even vegetarianism, not just veganism, is bad as well:-


Quote
“I’ll take a dead cow over anemia any time.”
Other former vegetarians cited persistent physical weakness despite eating a whole foods, PETA recommended diet while others returned to meat at the recommendation of their doctor.
Another big reason that vegetarians returned to meat was due to irresistable cravings.    This occurred even among long term vegetarians.  Respondents talked about their protein cravings or how the smell of cooking bacon drove them crazy.
One survey participant wrote:
“I just felt hungry all the time and that hunger would not be satisfied unless I ate meat.”
Another put it more humorously:
Starving college student + First night back home with the folks + Fifty or so blazin’ buffalo wings waiting in the kitchen = Surrender.
Sustainably Raised, Grassfed Meats Prove Enticing to Vegetarians
About half of vegetarians originally gave up meat for ethical reasons.  Pictures of confined animals standing on concrete in their own excrement and the stench of factory farms on country roads from 5 miles away is no doubt plenty of reason to turn away from meat.   Some former vegetarians, however, have recognized and embraced the grassfed movement back to sustainable and humanely raised, cruelty free meats as a real ethical alternative.
Some of these converts back to meat view buying grassfed beef and other sustainably raised animal foods as a new form of activism similar to their boycott of factory farmed meats when they were vegetarians.
Berlin Reed, a long term vegetarian with the tattoo “vegan” on his neck is one of these.  Now known as “the ethical butcher”, he believes that promoting customer contact with butchers which has been lost in recent decades with the rise of factory farming is the key to an improved and sustainable meat system.
Omnivores Healthier Than Vegetarians
The article in Psychology Today ended on a baffled note with the author wondering if meat eating could potentially be in our genes?
I submit that the results of this survey are not surprising and are in fact a testament to the research of Dr. Weston A. Price.   Dr. Price traveled the world in the 1920’s and 1930’s visiting 14 isolated cultures in the process.  During this adventure which he documented in great detail with amazing pictures in his masterpiece Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, Dr. Price concluded that while the diets of these natives varied widely, nutrient dense animal foods high in the fat soluble vitamins A, D, and K (also known as Activator X) were the common denominator.  Consumption of these animal foods were revered in these communities as they bestowed vibrant health, ease of fertility, healthy children, and high resistance to chronic and infectious disease.
This discovery was a disappointment to Dr. Price who had expected to find the vegetarian cultures to be the healthiest cultures of all. But, the vegetarian cultures he examined displayed more degeneration than the omnivore cultures which surprised him given that these vegetarian cultures did indeed have superior health than the Americans of his day.
However, he could not deny that the health of the indigenous omnivores exceeded that of the vegetarian cultures with those consuming marine seafoods of all kinds exhibiting the most vibrancy of all.
Therefore, in the famous words of Pink Floyd,  “Eat yer meat!”
And, while you’re at it, make sure it’s grassfed because even meat eaters hate factory farms!
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist.com
Sources: Vegetarians Beat a Humane Retreat Back to Meat
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Offline ys

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Your belief that we don't produce Vitamin B12 is an indication that you believe we are strict omnivores. We are omnivores for survival purposes just like every other non-carnivorous animal.

I would say it is other way around. I see plenty of evidence.

Humans have fully developed gall bladder enabling us to digest lots of concentrated fats which in paleo times would come primarily from animals especially brain and bone marrow.

Humans digestive system is very similar to wolf's who is primarily carnivore but retained ability to digest plant food.

Compare that to another omnivore, pig, which is mostly plant eater, and you will see that pig guts is drastically different from humans and wolves.

If you start feeding a dog Standard American diet it will get all usual human diseases - diabetes, cancer, arthritis, etc.


Offline cobalamin

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What nonsense are you talking about, cobalamin?

For the most part in the animal kingdom, intelligence can more or less be correlated with whether or not meat constitutes a staple of an animals' diet or not. Carnivores and omnivores lead the charts in sharpness, with hervibores largely at the top of the dull category.

The reason why is simple, herd animals only need a herd mentality to survive, as long as they stay and move with the herd, their chances are good. Predators need to understand the complex behavior and tendencies of the prey, often to a better extent than the prey themselves understand it. Herd animals need not worry about understanding predator behavior, all they need to know is that if they run faster than their peers and avoid the predators while another one in their herd gets caught, they will survive. It's the predator which has to choose the prey who is the weakest, the one which will tire the fastest, the one more likely to trip over itself, the one least likely to kick and injure the predator, the one which will provide the most and the highest quality meat... It's the predator which needs to determine the stalking position, when to launch the chase, the attack vector, how to read and predict the prey's next movement. If it's worth it to lead the prey towards a natural obstacle where they will be trapped. Whether to go straight for the throat or to weaken the prey by attacking the extremities first... It always takes a lot more brain power to understand the brain and body functions of another, lesser animal. That's why, even if they tried, herd animals can't understand predators, in particular pack hunters. So they don't even try, for the most part.

Wolves, lions, dolphins, chimpanzees, humans, and all other pack hunters need not only understand their prey's behavior, but also coordinate attacks with their pack members. That takes even more intelligence.

You have this delusional brainwashing that humans are pack hunters. Please go hunt without modern weapons and then let me know how well it goes.

Large herbivores kill the cubs of lions every chance they get. This proves that they kill the cubs so then they don't have to fight off the full grown lions in the future.  Elephants consume large amounts of nuts in africa when they are in season by using their trunk to pick them off trees and look at the size of their brains compared to lions. Have you ever seen a cat chase a squirrel? Squirrel reflexes are beyond what a cat can achieve.

Why do land based carnivores still have puny 350cc cranials if they are so intelligent and if meat increases cranial size?

Meat is only a concentrated source of nutrients that the animal ate. It is survival food.

Omega fatty acids(to produce prostaglandins) and Magnesium(for bone resorption of the skull) are required in abundance to increase cranial size. Period. There isn't sufficient amounts of omega fatty acids in grass fed animals unless animals are fed oily seeds like we see in factory farm animals but factory farmed meat lacks sufficient magnesium.

I know how we humans are capable of producing our own B12 and why most don't. I'm not here to share. Just to point out that meat did not in fact contribute to our cranial expansion.


Offline TylerDurden

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Err, you may be right re meat-eating and intelligence. However, I should point out that size of brain is not important on its own. Intelligence is defined by the ratio between brain-size and body-mass. Elephants have large brains but also large body-mass, so are not all that intelligent. Squirrels aren't too bright, either, with "reflexes" not being a sign of intelligence. It is true that sea mammals like dolphins often have large brains, but they need them as they, needing air, cannot afford to sleep underwater, so they need one  half of the brain to be awake all the time, with the other half asleep, in order to reach the surface regularly and breathe.
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Offline ys

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I know how we humans are capable of producing our own B12

OK, please share it with us.

Offline sabertooth

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What utter nonsense, humans evolved larger brains while living as pack hunters, and foraging opportunistic scavengers. The elephant analogy does not apply because elephants stomachs are designed to consume large quantities of foliage to fuel thier larger brains. Nor is it relevant about the size brains of other predators, because at some level evolution can be a resource conservative phenomenon, especially when periodic scarcity is an everyday reality and for animals who rely more on tooth and claw to obtain foods, freakishly large brains may not be an advantage, by weighing down the front end of four legged predators, and demanding much more calories to fuel, larger brains may not be advantageous for the more primitive beast...As for humans I believe it was critically necessary for the evolution of our massive brains, that liberal amounts of animal fats, like DHA, were essential for the green lighting the Lamarckian epigenetic quantum leap. Because we learned to crack open the bones of animals , and eat the brains and marrow, as well as crabs, cray fish, shell fish, bugs, birds, lizards...basically anything we could get our hands on.... the bodies micro RNA took full advantage of the abundance of neuro-generative nutrients found in those animal foods and through a process of Lamarckian Evolution, used that excess life energy intelligently to create the most magnificent jewel of the natural world.

During the period of  the epic cranial expansion, which is the most dramatic growth of any organ in such a short time, in known evolutionary history, our ancestors ate large quantities of meat...large bone yards have been found with clear evidence that stone tools where used to smash open bones, cut flesh for consumption...there is also evidence that even before the development of sophisticated tools and larger brains hominids were collecting shellfish, savaging and even used raw uncut stones to smash critters heads in....whoever can deny this denies their own nature.                                                                                                                                                                                     
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline cobalamin

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Err, you may be right re meat-eating and intelligence. However, I should point out that size of brain is not important on its own. Intelligence is defined by the ratio between brain-size and body-mass. Elephants have large brains but also large body-mass, so are not all that intelligent. Squirrels aren't too bright, either, with "reflexes" not being a sign of intelligence. It is true that sea mammals like dolphins often have large brains, but they need them as they, needing air, cannot afford to sleep underwater, so they need one  half of the brain to be awake all the time, with the other half asleep, in order to reach the surface regularly and breathe.

Not all elephants and squirrels have intelligence and intellect just as not all humans have intelligence and intellect.

Fast reflexes is a sign of long term potentiation.

Squirrels that I've fed an abundance of in-shell black oil sunflower seeds were extremely fast days later when they chased the non-intelligent squirrels from the high quality food and were quite intelligent and playful in their mating behavior. Quite similar to humans when a male is courting a female. Unfortunately many squirrels live around junk food eating humans and therefore are fed junk roasted nuts and cookies. And suffer from addiction and chronic stress from the car noise & air pollution as self evident by their ringworm infection. Hence why they seem unintelligent in cities while suffering immensely.

Sharks also have the same ability as dolphins regarding half of the brain staying awake and they have puny brains.

Dolphins have large brains because of their mating behavior and their consumption of a lot of Omega fatty acids from fish and seaweed. Love increases the production of neurochemicals which drives the production of prostaglandins in the nervous system which lastly stimulates the production of neurotrophins.

Love, not war, drives cranial expansion.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51246752_NGF_and_romantic_love

Lions on the other hand kill cups of their own specie so they can mate right away with the mother. There is nothing more stupid, arrogant and selfish then this type of action.

OK, please share it with us.

If you have one good reason.

What utter nonsense, humans evolved larger brains while living as pack hunters, and foraging opportunistic scavengers. The elephant analogy does not apply because elephants stomachs are designed to consume large quantities of foliage to fuel thier larger brains. Nor is it relevant about the size brains of other predators, because at some level evolution can be a resource conservative phenomenon, especially when periodic scarcity is an everyday reality and for animals who rely more on tooth and claw to obtain foods, freakishly large brains may not be an advantage, by weighing down the front end of four legged predators, and demanding much more calories to fuel, larger brains may not be advantageous for the more primitive beast...As for humans I believe it was critically necessary for the evolution of our massive brains, that liberal amounts of animal fats, like DHA, were essential for the green lighting the Lamarckian epigenetic quantum leap. Because we learned to crack open the bones of animals , and eat the brains and marrow, as well as crabs, cray fish, shell fish, bugs, birds, lizards...basically anything we could get our hands on.... the bodies micro RNA took full advantage of the abundance of neuro-generative nutrients found in those animal foods and through a process of Lamarckian Evolution, used that excess life energy intelligently to create the most magnificent jewel of the natural world.

During the period of  the epic cranial expansion, which is the most dramatic growth of any organ in such a short time, in known evolutionary history, our ancestors ate large quantities of meat...large bone yards have been found with clear evidence that stone tools where used to smash open bones, cut flesh for consumption...there is also evidence that even before the development of sophisticated tools and larger brains hominids were collecting shellfish, savaging and even used raw uncut stones to smash critters heads in....whoever can deny this denies their own nature.                                                                                                                                                                                   

You fail to see the difference between neurodegeneration(deficiency), maintenance(sufficient) and neurogenesis(abundance of Omega fatty acids, vitamins and minerals). Elephants can keep eating foliage and never increase their cranial size from baseline because there isn't any Omega 6 fatty acids from whole foods in abundance to provide the "Lamarckian epigenetic quantum leap". Especially while living near the equator since Vitamin D limits the production of prostaglandins. Hence why those living further away from the equator have larger cranials.

What you said regarding lions makes sense on a elementary level however not on a biochemical level.

You're assumption that humans are the most magnificent jewel of the natural world is wishful thinking. The majority of humans are gullible and arrogant. They will do anything for made up monopoly money including hurting their own specie. Hence placing amalgam fillings in young children's teeth without their permission and ruining their lives for decades and nobody caring or doing anything while these children not only have to reverse their own neurodegeneration but they need to piece their lives back together while trying to learn to trust these waste of a life humans that keep making a mess.

We started consuming raw nuts and oily seeds like cantaloupe seeds(rich in Omega 6 fatty acids) before we gained enough brain mass to migrate for the seafood. I don't deny we consumed a lot of seafood that contributed in conjunction of Omega 6's to our present cranial size however my own experience as a child trying to consume raw grass fed meat and having trouble chewing it and spitting it out just like spitting out and gagging on broccoli tells me that meat from land animals is survival food. While consuming large quantities of Merluzzo, lattuga, raw pistacchios, melons and stone fruits to my hearts desire while growing up in Italy tells me more than anything.

My experience with consuming raw grass fed beef without condiments for a couple of weeks led to the same conclusion. Quite disgusting body odor. And it is self-evident that those who consume meat from land animals aren't anywhere near as attractive as those of us who don't consume land animals.

My own experience tells me that Adrenic Acid is superior than DHA and the science proves that AA is a lot more potent than EPA for growth unless someone is deficient in Vitamin D, then EPA can work for bone resorption. My own experience of gaining half an inch in penile length from 7" to 7.5" and girth from 5.5" to 6" tells me that the biochemical science is correct in regards to PGE1(made from an Omega 6 fatty acid) in increasing penis size in conjunction of prolonged love making.

I have a proposition for you to test whose brain is more efficienct (Long-term potentiation). Write a paragraph in cursive if you can as soon as you wake up. Initial it with your username and date. I will do the same. Whoever has the more legible and impeccable hand writing wins.  Are you up for the challenge?

Offline dariorpl

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You have this delusional brainwashing that humans are pack hunters. Please go hunt without modern weapons and then let me know how well it goes.

If the money was available to pay a prize for the participants, it would be interesting to take two groups, of 40 people each, and have them roam around a given area of the wilderness over the course of a year, preferrably somewhere in Europe, and in such a way that the two groups never overlap, but that the available nutrition in both areas is roughly equivalent.

Both groups would go into the experiment with nothing but the skin on their back and one toothbrush per person.

One group would be allowed to eat whatever they can find, whereas the other group will be limited to vegan foods.

The group who finishes with the most members still alive and still in the experiment wins (the group members are free to quit anytime they want).

Perhaps one way to finance such an operation and provide a substantial prize for the winner would be to take a filming crew and/or place lots and lots of hidden cameras around the wilderness, and then air it as a reality TV series.

In a way the experiment would be heavily skewed towards the vegan side because in real hunter-gatherer societies, the two groups wouldn't just avoid each other, but they would fiercely combat each other to the death. And obviously if you have the tools and skills to hunt, you're going to be better prepared to fight opposing tribes, since the two practices have similar requirements in some areas, if only slightly. Still I think the paleo group would win by a landslide as long as the location isn't picked in such a specific way to give the vegan group a big advantage. (there are a few places on Earth where food is very scarce and there are basically no animals you can hunt, in such a scenario the vegan group would have an advantage because vegan people tend to be smaller and weaker and thus are used to surviving on smaller amounts of food - however these places are very rare, so you would have to really try to pick one of these)

To make the experiment even more interesting, it would be nice if all the food eaten had to be raw, and there was no cooking allowed, or better yet, no fire either. In such a scenario the vegans would stand no chance, unless the wilderness location was somewhere in the tropics.
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