Author Topic: Primal Shift  (Read 2174 times)

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Online sabertooth

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Primal Shift
« on: April 24, 2017, 09:45:17 am »
I'm operating from an instinctive primarily carnivorous diet and its been a while since I have made any major changes to the day to day diet... in which whole animal( meat, fat, glands, organs) eggs and blood are the mainstay...along with some greens, herbs, and coconut.

This past month I began to have extreme Dairy cravings out of the blue. I think my body has been missing something, and my energy has been lower than usual, and its been harder to recover from workouts. It got to the point where I would literally dream about nursing big breasted women( much more than usual) TMI

So for the last three weeks Ive been drinking about a quart of raw whole milk a day along with some blood. Ive also been eating a fair amount of turmeric and have been using shilajit. So far its been working good, its odd but I think that as long as I regularly consume blood, and some turmeric, the usual mucus dairy gut condition isn't an issue. In past experiments within a week my stomach would rebel entirely against dairy. This time around its been surprisingly calm. Around the two week mark I had a day of constipation after running out of fresh blood, but after a fresh kill everything was fine.

Its too soon into the experiment to make definite conclusions, so I will continue to post here on any changes.
So far I feel strongly that there is a real benefit to the shilajit milk mixture, which is an ancient ayurvedic practice ; having experienced increased stamina, strength, since of well being and libido.


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Offline van

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 08:14:18 am »
With dairy, always question as to what the animal ate.   By this, I mean how much lush green grass/forage ( and ideally mineral balance of soil ) to the amount of grains used to increase milk production.   Most grains used for milk animals are crushed, thus oxidized, and most often aren't organic.  When I had goats for about 15 years we sprouted all grains, and used very sparingly...  I can tell you my experience is that all  mucus was created by poor grass quality and mostly grains.   
    Milk, unsoured, has a fair amount of carbs.  Very likely that you're using them for energy and feeling energized from them. 
   I ended up with making kefir, and then mixing half and half, kefir and fresh milk, to make a most creamy delicious drink.   Highly recommend it if you're going the milk route.   If so, there are multiple varieties of strains out there.  I had three going most of the time and rotated them as I developed a taste for each one of them. 

Online sabertooth

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 09:44:58 pm »
In the past Ive tried everything possible to make dairy work. Made my own kefir and yogurt from the best free range cows available, and there was always a threshold to the amount i could tolerate.

Shorty before transitioning into Raw paleo I had two small milking goats that were grass fed, supplemented with a small amount of oats. The milk was good and I never had any issues that could be directly related to the milk, though I rarely drank more than a cup a day.  After killing the goats and beginning Raw paleo I eliminated dairy entirely for a couple of months or so, only trying it again after studying AVs Primal Diet.

Starting out on primal everything was great, learning about high meat was a god send, and for a while I was only using small amounts of dairy...I began to notice that if I had more than a cup of milk a day for an extended period that my gut would get mucusy and bloated, so I quit dairy and the issue resolved.

Every now and then I would crave dairy, and feel absolutely great for about a week or two while drinking it, only to have the symptoms of intolerance return. This time around I went over a year without trying any dairy, but the cravings just got so strong that I believe it was a sign that I was missing something, and so began experimenting with it again. The source is 100% pasture fed, from a very lush and ideal range, and is the best tasting milk I could imagine.

Well into the third week now, and doing good, gained about 5 pounds or so and feeling strong, no signs of mucus....Perhaps there is something to the new combinations of regularly drinking blood eating turmeric, and mixing shilajit into the milk....along with the quality of the milk...which is mitigating the past intolerance issues.

I also have a big garden started, and have been juicing some greens, these are very good, and dont make me feel noxious like past experiments with green juices made with store bought. Ive frozen some green juice into ice cubes and mix it with chaga for a refreshing drink. I will be experimenting with different drink blends this summer season. Blending in herbs and greens into refreshing hydrating drinks.
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Offline van

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 12:14:45 am »
hard to say, lots of variables.  You could delete one or both of the shilajit  and tumeric to see it it is indeed the addition of those ingredients.  But you'd have to qualify the change of spring pastures to summer pastures if you waited too long.  Spring grasses etc. are at their peak.  Also the nutrition that an animal puts into her milk early is different early on than later.   Food combing with milk is also key,, as milk will form curds as they digest in your stomach,, goat milk forming smaller curds, thus some believe it's one of the reasons it's easier to digest than cow milk.  But some speculate that when curds form, they can form around other food particles preventing complete digestion of those particles. 
  But enjoy while you can.  I can remember my days of milk drinking, the weight gain, energy etc.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 04:44:28 am »
///
This past month I began to have extreme Dairy cravings out of the blue. I think my body has been missing something, and my energy has been lower than usual, and its been harder to recover from workouts. It got to the point where I would literally dream about nursing big breasted women( much more than usual) TMI
///
Its too soon into the experiment to make definite conclusions, so I will continue to post here on any changes.
So far I feel strongly that there is a real benefit to the shilajit milk mixture, which is an ancient ayurvedic practice ; having experienced increased stamina, strength, since of well being and libido.

I wonder why you obey to your craving for milk since you certainly know that milk contains opioids / exorphins and is therefore addictive, as wheat, most grains and cooked food. And don't forget that "cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response."!  ;)

Why not look for "paleo" foods you've never tasted before, to broaden your food range as we are certainly meant to constantly do? I still discover new tasty foods, even after 30 years of raw paleo!

PS: Cravings seem due to memory of former experiences with certain specific foods and thus aren't trustworthy for showing the current real needs of the body.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Online sabertooth

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2017, 01:16:18 pm »
hard to say, lots of variables.  You could delete one or both of the shilajit  and tumeric to see it it is indeed the addition of those ingredients.  But you'd have to qualify the change of spring pastures to summer pastures if you waited too long.  Spring grasses etc. are at their peak.  Also the nutrition that an animal puts into her milk early is different early on than later.   Food combing with milk is also key,, as milk will form curds as they digest in your stomach,, goat milk forming smaller curds, thus some believe it's one of the reasons it's easier to digest than cow milk.  But some speculate that when curds form, they can form around other food particles preventing complete digestion of those particles. 
  But enjoy while you can.  I can remember my days of milk drinking, the weight gain, energy etc.

Im not sure if anything I do can qualify all the variables, such is life...all I can do for sure is ride out this next phase of dietary experience, and continue to shift according to the whims of the gut feeling...This is as much an art as it is a science.
I wonder why you obey to your craving for milk since you certainly know that milk contains opioids / exorphins and is therefore addictive, as wheat, most grains and cooked food. And don't forget that "cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response."!  ;)

Why not look for "paleo" foods you've never tasted before, to broaden your food range as we are certainly meant to constantly do? I still discover new tasty foods, even after 30 years of raw paleo!

PS: Cravings seem due to memory of former experiences with certain specific foods and thus aren't trustworthy for showing the current real needs of the body.


It may indeed be possible to seek out and find the elements that I am craving from other sources, but I am still a fledgling in this trek and am not sure if I am ready willing or able to forage for the right combinations of roots, and foliage...or kill large animals only to take their marrow and vital organs while leaving the lean meat as our apex hunting ancestors could. I am at the mercy of circumstance, even though my position my be better than some, I still struggle to obtain the optimal balance, while living in a modern city and working day to day for a little money and comfort. Perhaps a little milk binge from time to time isnt such a bad thing in the grand scheme, if it brings some sense of relief to the craven soul.

All your concerns are well noted, and I have had similar thoughts regarding how certain elements of dairy are counter to and conflict with the instinctive drive. Yet I feel that there are even higher levels within the scope of instinct to explore. My feeling of there sometimes something missing from the diet, along with the subsequent craving for dairy, seems more than a mere relapse of an addictive behavior, . In the same line of thinking fruit sugar can be seen as addicting, and science has proven that dopamine release is triggered by all forms of sugar, which could also be seen as an addiction. Even edible plants like wild lettuces have opiates and countless other sought after foods have peculiar effects upon our instinctive mechanism. Underneath the thin veil of bodily animal instinct is a neurological desire for ever more satiation; the blueprints of addiction are built into the very fabric of our food web.

Do the pos ultimately outweigh the cons??? that is a question we are not always capable of clearly answering, at least on an intellectual level. There are factors compounded by factors and the short term gains can quickly turn into long term losses, only to be vindicated by the eventually triggering of long term successful adaptation. There is no linear logic to the equation.

 In many cases so called addictive behaviors are rewarded by nature, and our quest for optimal sustenance evolved while walking the line between temperance and intoxicance. Our Large brains may have been driven to grow simply in order to increase the size and scope of our hedonistic pleasure centers. The opiate receptors evolved as a reward system for a reason, and to indulge these cravings, is as deeply ingrained a part of the instinctive way of life, as anything can be.

Could it be possible for "will power" of the "intellect" to combine with "instinct" of the "animal body" in order to synergisticly work out the pros and cons of any choice the mind is faced with? IF so, perhaps the integrated "mind body"  would work out an advantageous compromise to each situation as it arrives.

Sure dairy can be addictive and may be disruptive to the instinctive mechanism, but it also may be triggering positive overall effects...such as enhanced creative thinking, and overall more energy. Maybe there is a price to pay, but as long as one is aware of the consequences and understands the risk then I say game on, lets see where this goes, and have faith that I will know when enough is enough.

Based on other past choices be them right or wrong, I have come to trust a highly developed "instinctive free will". For a time I was drinking  kombucha daily and although it wasn't causing me any problems I noticed that I was becoming dependent upon the small amount of caffeine. I then made the choice to quit, and I did, after about two weeks I quit having cravings and my energy levels normalized. Other occasions I have found myself depending too much on cannabis, and would quit for long periods...eventually I found a balance of eating a small amount of the raw herb intermittently, or on special occasions.

I have been widening my over all range beyond just the addition of Dairy... by trying shilijit, juicing greens, chewing ginseng, many other herbs...starting out with small amounts....tasting each individually, and testing the threshold, noticing if cravings are stimulated....Idealistically with time and experience the instinct will hone itself and foraging for the optimal will become second nature.
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Offline Robinlove

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2017, 12:40:17 pm »
I absolutely love this thread. I love this group. I dont personally much care for raw milk, but raw cream? Get out of here. I will live in the stuff! Oh so much yummy. Shilijat sounds very interesting! Also.interstimg is I thought I liked raw milk until a few days ago. Realized I dont care much for it all. Additionally, I started craving tumeric!!! I've been thinking about making a fermented curry paste for the past few days and I have just been wanting to gnaw on tumeric and various herbs.

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2017, 12:38:57 am »
Ive cut back on my milk consumption after having some of the typical reoccurring lactose intolerance symptoms, but still consume fresh raw cream on occasion. Whipping it up and eating a spoon full is about my most decadent indulgence.  Most of what I do is directed by craving and gut instinct. If you are in tune with what the body needs, and you are not full of adulterated foods and artificial ingredients then you better be able to know when you have had enough of something.

I encourage people to taste test a number of raw herbs and greens to find out what they like best, start a garden with your favorites so you will always have something fresh to chew on.

Lately I have had sea food cravings and just got back from North Carolina, where i ate raw oysters and steamed blue crabs. I tried a couple of raw crabs which were very tasty, but the flesh is real gooey and hard to pick from the shell when raw. I brought thirty crabs back, and froze them for later use. The small legs and soft pieces of shell I blended up with a little sea water and froze into ice cubes which taste pretty good and I am using as a mineral supplement
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Offline surfsteve

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2017, 02:46:52 am »
I haven't had any milk or dairy for years. It's unavailable in my area and would probably be too expensive anyway.

When I eat whipped egg yolks I feel like I am eating whip cream anyway so I don't miss it.

I wonder if I will get any symptoms from the egg yolks. I buy regular supermarket ones. Even virtually all of the cage free are fed grain so when it comes to eggs I don't think there's a whole lot of difference anyway. One brand of cage free I bought one time because they were on sale turned out to be pasteurized. It's so hard to find good quality food these days!

I've read that adding yeast to food will make it taste like cheese but the vast majority of nutritional yeasts are fortified with fake chemical vitamins and they make me sick. Also the non fortified yeasts for some reason are very expensive so I'm holding off on that. At least for the time being.

Offline Robinlove

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2017, 07:42:27 am »
Don't buy cage free, buy pasture raised! I've never had whipped egg yolks in the sense that you seem to be eluding too.

Yah.... I need more butter in my life. Currently broke so I'm eating fruit off my tree and I feel like poo. This week will be crappy. $17/ pound of raw butter is something I just can't do right now when I have a free tree in my backyard. But after today... Stuff like this is how I guide most of my food choices. How do I feel? How Is the rest of my body reacting? How well do I recover from a workout?  I have a crap ton of chia seeds so Im sporting a bunch to.turn into seedlings. It will be free since I already have them and I will.hopefully feel better. Screw you, orange tree and you're oranges...

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2017, 08:35:51 am »
Even most pasture raised chickens are fed chicken feed that contains mostly soy and GM corn. Actually the last time I tried to buy them I thought I was buying pasture raised eggs but when I got home it said they were cage free pasteurized. Like you said. Screw it! I'll just wait till the regular ones go on sale and keep buying them for a dollar a dozen. At least for now till my finances improve. I use coconut oil in place of butter. Been doing it for years and never regretted it. Though lately since trying total raw I been just using fatty cuts of meat instead. I was a little afraid of raw fat at first but I found that it tastes really good!

BTW I love oranges. Have you ever tried juicing them peelings and all? The fiber in the peelings is supposed to be really good for your gut flora. It also puts me in a really good mood!

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2017, 08:49:26 am »
Ever heard of "high citrus"? Ha ha!

Offline Robinlove

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2017, 11:26:33 am »
I felt terrible yesterday after the stupid orange! I had to take a nap! It was no good. I love love love love love love raw butter. I could literally live on it. I prefer it over coconut oil taste and nutrition wise, plus I bet it has a lower carbon footprint print. As for the pasture raised eggs, I can find soy and gmo free feed ones! Hard to find but worth it. Plus, I found these! New whole foods item

Offline Robinlove

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2017, 11:28:56 am »
Not organic per say and not sure about soy free, but gmo free and pasture raised and about half the price of the other kinds of pasture raised eggs I can find. Money is an issue right now so these work. $5/doz instead of the usual $9-10/doz I pay for other brands they carry of farmer's market egg's

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 09:48:19 pm »
I felt terrible yesterday after the stupid orange! I had to take a nap! It was no good. I love love love love love love raw butter. I could literally live on it. I prefer it over coconut oil taste and nutrition wise, plus I bet it has a lower carbon footprint print. As for the pasture raised eggs, I can find soy and gmo free feed ones! Hard to find but worth it. Plus, I found these! New whole foods item

Ever try coconut butter? It is a whole food and I like it much better than the oil.

Oranges are too sweet for me and mess with my digestion, I much prefer lemons and limes, which dont seem to cause the same issues. Im currently raising a small lime tree in the hope that in the near future I can have my own supply of high quality citrus....

Much of the "organic" store bought lemons and limes are nowhere near the quality of what I have tasted from the back yard tree ripe fruit that a house guest brought me... There is something not quite right about most of Lemons and Limes I have found at the local markets, and its hit or miss... some shipments are alright, while others, not so much....Unfortunately the "police state" enforced "big agra complex" will not allow individuals to ship high quality homegrown produce through the mail....so citrus lovers who live outside of the sub tropics are at the mercy of unscrupulous corporations, that cut corners, use questionable methods, and dont allow for full tree ripening, in order to maximize profit.
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Online sabertooth

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2017, 09:52:34 pm »
Not organic per say and not sure about soy free, but gmo free and pasture raised and about half the price of the other kinds of pasture raised eggs I can find. Money is an issue right now so these work. $5/doz instead of the usual $9-10/doz I pay for other brands they carry of farmer's market egg's


I recommend if possible to raise your own chickens, or find someone who does to buy directly from... surf sites like cragslist, or agrilicious http://www.agrilicious.org/ you will be surprised to find that there are usually Die hard foodies in your area that have paleo quality foods for a reasonable price.
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Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2017, 11:20:00 pm »
Feed her rabbit turds sabertooth.

Online sabertooth

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2017, 02:37:41 am »
Feed her rabbit turds sabertooth.
I only recommend Raw Turd therapy for more advanced practitioners, in which case I prefer consuming whole raw unwashed sheep intestines, with the bio-film layer of intestinal slime still intact.   
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Offline Robinlove

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Re: Primal Shift
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2017, 09:19:51 pm »
I looked up backyard chicken raisers in my area a few years ago, maybe two, and I was rather disappointed to find that they all seemed to keep them rather penned up and charged like 8-10 bux a dozen.