Author Topic: kefir recycling  (Read 4603 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,694
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
kefir recycling
« on: May 15, 2012, 07:16:36 AM »
if i have kefir and when im almost done I pour the remainder in a new jug of milk will that make new kefir? Can I do this indefinitly?


I have now retired from making forum posts and all text based internet communications. I will still respond to private messages if anyone is so inclined.

(delphi technique proven a success?)

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 07:37:25 AM »
It will tend to get more sour.
Cheers
Al

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,694
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 12:27:35 PM »
Thats great, its not getting sour nearly fast enough for my liking at this point. I havent had anything id call to sour yet so im looking forward to experiencing that.
I have now retired from making forum posts and all text based internet communications. I will still respond to private messages if anyone is so inclined.

(delphi technique proven a success?)

Offline HIT_it_RAW

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 02:59:32 PM »
Thats great, its not getting sour nearly fast enough for my liking at this point. I havent had anything id call to sour yet so im looking forward to experiencing that.
You use kefir grains? if not than its just sour milk. Nothing wrong with that. But it is not the same as kefir.
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 10:17:31 PM »
You use kefir grains? if not than its just sour milk. Nothing wrong with that. But it is not the same as kefir.

The endless argument. LOL

We use raw honey as a starter, works well. We tried K grains but they were a bit of work as we don't eat a lot of kefir. Too sour for me.

BTW it isn't, but even if it is, what s wrong with sour milk?
Cheers
Al

Offline HIT_it_RAW

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 10:57:38 PM »
The endless argument. LOL

We use raw honey as a starter, works well. We tried K grains but they were a bit of work as we don't eat a lot of kefir. Too sour for me.

BTW it isn't, but even if it is, what s wrong with sour milk?
Like I said in my previous post there is nothing wrong with sour milk. In fact i like sour milk. However there are only a couple of bacteria strains in raw milk thar sour(ferment) it. In real kefir made with grains. There are over 50 types of bacteria and yeast and fungi in a very powerfull symbiose.

My kefir is only sour if i let it be. short fermented kefir is hardly sour. Adding honey fixes this anyway if you have a problem with sour. I don;t i love sour stuff.
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 11:28:16 PM »
Other than the advertising at the site where the guy who sells the grains claims there are 50 bacteria, I am not sure where that number originates....

Aajonus claims that the honey makes perfect kefir because one strain of bacteria in it causes the milk to change and another strain in the honey keeps it from going bad. I have no idea if this is true, just going on his word.

It isn't the taste of honey that makes it sweet, it is the length of time that you let it work. It goes sour eventually no matter what bacteria are in it. Same with yogurt.
Cheers
Al

Offline HIT_it_RAW

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 12:08:59 AM »
I've seen lab tests confirm the 50+ claim. I'll see if I can find then again.

I meant adding honey just prior to consumption to make it sweet. Of course sourness depends on fermentation time.
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2012, 12:11:46 AM »
What about the sour milk and a couple of strains part?
Cheers
Al

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,694
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2012, 01:32:19 AM »
The original milk I started with was a kefir made with kefir grains. Instead of getting kefire grains however, I am just using the remnants of the original kefir. Isnt this just as good as having the grains since the bacteria are in the kefir I am using?
I have now retired from making forum posts and all text based internet communications. I will still respond to private messages if anyone is so inclined.

(delphi technique proven a success?)

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2012, 01:59:46 AM »
If you got the kefir from a friend who had the grains, ask them to keep you in mind when they get bored with caring for the grains or when the grains grow and or divide. The grains we had made the rounds with our cowshare group. Everyone tried them for awhile.

I think I recall someone here offering free grains as theirs had multiplied. I think there is a Yahoo group on grains also.

For us the honey is perfect, simple and I doubt someone would be able to tell the difference. (that should elicit a flurry of replies  >D ) LOL
Cheers
Al

Offline Adora

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • to thine own self be true ... Shakespeare
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2012, 02:23:24 AM »
I've never tried the honey-milk culture so I can't speak to it, but Grains are far superior than just using the kefir starter. The only time I use starter is when I am culturing cream b/c it seems to work better with the high fat of cream. I have lots of huge grains and 5 lbs of nice kefir cheese. If you can't get it local I would send you some. I let my kefir grains sit a couple of days then the whey separates I strain it to make less sour and more thick. If you want it more sour keep a tight fitting lid on it and stir the whey back into it before drinking it. It makes it almost fizzy.
  I think grains are easy. Just switch them into fresh milk every day or so on the counter. If you get sick of kefir you can put a cup of milk in the fridge with a kefir grain for like 3 weeks and switch it out. If you want to stop for like a year you can rinse the grains and dry them on towels then put the dried grain in powdered milk and freeze it. When you want to use it again you just put it in a little milk and change the milk every day until it starts kicking out good strong kefir again, about 2 weeks
know thyself and all of the mysteries of the gods and the universe will be revealed.
Oracle at Delphi

Then began I to thrive, and wisdom to get,
I grew and well I was;
Each word led me on to another word,
Each deed to another deed.
Odin, who chose to be weak and hang form the tree of the world (the universe), to capture the Runes (wisdom), so he (omnipotent) grew...
Each true word and deed leads to my manifestation of the true me.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2012, 02:33:04 AM »
Adora,

Our cheese maker just separated (no pun intended, believe me it's not funny) from the farmer and we are cheesed off. Her raw cheese was primo.

So how did you make the kefir cheese? Do you just make the kefir and then put it in a cloth to drip (like Philadephia cream cheese) and then press it? or is it a soft cheese.

That's interesting about the whey. We do tend to eat the whey and that's maybe why it is sour.
Cheers
Al

Offline HIT_it_RAW

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2012, 04:16:40 AM »
The original milk I started with was a kefir made with kefir grains. Instead of getting kefire grains however, I am just using the remnants of the original kefir. Isnt this just as good as having the grains since the bacteria are in the kefir I am using?
possibly. However if it was indeed made with strong healthy grains then the kefir should be riddled with tiny baby grains. if you keep some of the old every time those babys would quickly start growing to be grains themselves.
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline Adora

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • to thine own self be true ... Shakespeare
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2012, 05:26:09 AM »
This is the way I strain the soft kefir cheese, and a picture of a kefir grain
The cheese is still sour but not as sour. In the past I have made sweet cheese with dried fruit and nuts, or herb cheeses with dried herbs. The dried soaks up more water and it gets nice and dense, but not knife hard. It is a treat over sliced apples/pears. I also, enjoyed it rolled with thin beef strips, and mixed bone marrow and salt and garlic in it. I over ate the combos and got fat, so I quit.
    Cheese cloth bugs me, but most people say it is bad to use metal with kefir, but this is easy, so I hope its not poisoning me. If you want a mozzarella firmness you can wrap your fine cheese cloth around the ball of cheese in the photo and put a weight over it. I use a bowl and a grapefruit. Let the whole thing strain out 2-3 more days, it gets harder and drier the longer you leave it out. I have even eaten the crust. Sounds gross, but it was good like Parmesan.
   I also, put an egg into my kefir after I took out the grains and left it for days on the counter. It tasted good especially the yolk. I only did it once but the experiment seemed to be fine.
I love kefir, but I worry that I may be addicted, so I stopped again, and I crave it, so hard to tell if it is my body wanting to get a nutrient or if it is just addicted -\
know thyself and all of the mysteries of the gods and the universe will be revealed.
Oracle at Delphi

Then began I to thrive, and wisdom to get,
I grew and well I was;
Each word led me on to another word,
Each deed to another deed.
Odin, who chose to be weak and hang form the tree of the world (the universe), to capture the Runes (wisdom), so he (omnipotent) grew...
Each true word and deed leads to my manifestation of the true me.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2012, 05:44:49 AM »
Nice pics Adora, thanks.

That looks like a nice cheese you have there. Now that we've lost our cheese maker I may try that. Just have to hit up the guy that I gave the grains to. Or maybe I'll do the honey. decisions decisions...

We used to use a piece of cotton cloth to wrap it when we used to make paneer (which is not paleo) It was soooooooooo good. But now I do not enjoy it as much as my stomach has a hard time with cooked food.

When I used to make tofu I made a press. A friend used a sausage press to harden his tofu. It was almost as hard as a board. LOL Then he went to putting 25 pound weights on it. He ended up with prostate cancer. I blame the tofu.
Cheers
Al

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,593
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2012, 12:06:50 PM »
Al - cheese is a very big subject. I've lived with a book for awhile, spent many hours on the net, have tried some things and I know I'm like the tiniest fledgling in a great big blue sky.

What kind of cheese did you get from the farmer's wife?

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2012, 07:19:58 PM »
Al - cheese is a very big subject. I've lived with a book for awhile, spent many hours on the net, have tried some things and I know I'm like the tiniest fledgling in a great big blue sky.

What kind of cheese did you get from the farmer's wife?
Not sure of the exact name but it was a hard cheese (normally the result of pressing) that was mild. She also made herb cheeses which I realize how too make.

Basically I/we like mild cheeses but my wife likes a bit tangier. This is easy to do, just make two batches.

However any raw recipes would be appreciated.

We cannot handle grocery store stuff. All kinds of issues.

Simpler is better also. We have some veal calf rennet from somebody selling it on the net - steve@the cheesemaker.com
Cheers
Al

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,593
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2012, 10:49:14 PM »
The soft cheeses are the easiest. I don't have the book here atm so can't scan any of the recipes. They carry the book at the library so your library might have it - but a friend lent me hers. I went through the entire book to figure out which cheeses can be made without heating and you would be surprised how many can! Most of the time it's just the traditionally way of making it. I tried to make hard cheese but you have to leave it out and it attracted fruit flies more than bananas. I would have to figure out a way around the fruit fly problem before making hard cheese again. Soft cheeses don't have that problem and when you say seasoned cheese - that's usually soft. You can't keep the soft cheeses as long as the hard cheeses of course - but they sure taste great.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2012, 11:07:09 PM »
I used to make breads with all kinds of crazy ingredients, and I assume there's no reason that cheese couldn't have say olives in it etc.
Cheers
Al

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,593
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2012, 11:20:34 PM »
You couldn't do that with most hard cheeses as the bacteria has to be just right - but with soft cheeses I can't see why not put just about anything you like in it ..... as long as it can stay ok for the couple of weeks that is the life of the cheese that is..... or if you eat it all right away like I so often do. ;)

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2012, 11:29:58 PM »
We use about 1.1 pounds of cheese per week.

When you say hard cheese, isn't that just soft cheese that you press?

I used to make Philadelphia CC from yogurt and the longer you hung it the dryer it got and eventually it was fairly hard.
Cheers
Al

Offline HIT_it_RAW

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2012, 12:41:57 AM »
Hard cheeses are pressed, than sealed using wax or nowadays plastic and left to age. Young cheese is very soft. As the cheese matures it gets harder/dryer. This is partly due to evaporation and partly due to ongoing fermentation.

My local farmer and cheese maker just started making cheeses for me. He used to only make salted cheese. So far he made me three unsalted cheeses that are now aging. First one its almost ready, can't wait!
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,521
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2012, 12:52:17 AM »
How long does he age it?
Cheers
Al

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,593
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: kefir recycling
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2012, 01:28:41 AM »
Hard cheeses are pressed, than sealed using wax or nowadays plastic and left to age. Young cheese is very soft. As the cheese matures it gets harder/dryer. This is partly due to evaporation and partly due to ongoing fermentation.

My local farmer and cheese maker just started making cheeses for me. He used to only make salted cheese. So far he made me three unsalted cheeses that are now aging. First one its almost ready, can't wait!

oooh nice HIT! You've got a cheese dealer to keep you supplied! ;)

There are many types of hard cheese Al and each one has it's time to be aged, different pressures, different bacteria that is added as well temperature and humidity that the cheese has to be made in and stored at. Some bacteria cheeses you can't make in the same place or the bacteria gets mixed. It's quite the art and science. For all the hard cheeses you have to leave the cheese out for a certain amount of time turning it to get it to a certain point of dehydration and then like HIT said you put it in wax (some old timers just use oil) and then let it sit for at least the specified amount of time for that particular cheese. Some cheeses get new names with the amount of time they are allowed to cure. 

What kind of cheese do you get HIT?