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Messages - CarnivorousApe

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51
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Does instincto lead to overeating?
« on: May 02, 2012, 08:36:25 am »
Including plenty of fat in the diet will cure overeating.  That's where instincto often fails, people often don't eat enough fat.

Hm, shouldn't instinct make people eat more fat?

52
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Does instincto lead to overeating?
« on: May 02, 2012, 08:35:27 am »
Anyway, instincto will lead you to overeat if there is nothing interesting (and enjoyable) to do except eating. In this case, you´ll tend to accept even unpleasant sensations when eating. The more you´ll enjoy life, the less you´ll be willing to accept unpleasant sensations when eating and the more you´ll consequently observe your instinctive signals.

That's true for cooked foods also. A lot of people who forget to eat while doing something exiting. Other people overeat because they don't have enough pleasure in their lives otherwise. I still can't see how instincts can protect us from overeating if it makes perfect sense from evolutionary perspective to have instincts that make us overeat at every opportunity as such opportunities are rare in the wilderness.

53
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: Which is better?
« on: May 01, 2012, 09:49:04 pm »
Well, even the duck eggs I got from farmers' markets had that negative effect. They also tasted much fouler. Ducks in the UK are far more intensively-raised than other birds, judging from reports.

I usually drink raw chicken eggs, free range, they taste great to me (I didn't like omega 3 fortified though). There is a source of duck eggs at the farmers market, going to try them. Unfortunately no goose nor quail eggs around.

I think sour cream and butter are better as a temporary solution than tallow and very accessible if there is a problem with eggs.

54
General Discussion / Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« on: May 01, 2012, 05:24:38 pm »

Does that mean processed cooked rice,  lite Italian salad dressing,  puffed wheat, white Italian bread, sugar, aspartame, coke, coffee, and dinner roll are good for health as they produce few AGE?

People eating this stuff don't have to worry about their AGE because they die young :)

55
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: Which is better?
« on: May 01, 2012, 04:29:24 pm »
No good.

Is it because ducks are fed grain while geese not?

56
General Discussion / Re: Planning for a few weeks - what to order?
« on: May 01, 2012, 04:17:20 pm »
I tried lamb liver, it's great.
Plus tongues - beef and lamb - really cheap and probably the best meat there is.

57
General Discussion / Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« on: May 01, 2012, 04:12:25 pm »
AGE is definitely important for publishing industry. At last Cordain has something else to write about. It seems similar to cholesterol - initially it was considered bad, that it turned out there are two types and if eating paleo style you don't have to worry about it.

58
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: Which is better?
« on: May 01, 2012, 11:14:03 am »
Raw egg yolks since they'" raw unlike tallow. But the former are still not ideal. I tend to not properly absorb raw eggs with the exception of raw goose eggs and raw quail eggs. I suspect this is because the other types of eggs aee all from heavily-grainfed birds.

What about duck eggs?

59
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: lifestyle and exercise frequency
« on: May 01, 2012, 10:51:40 am »
I found that paleo mindset is useful not only for diet but also for selecting activities.

I took some salsa classes. Dancing is the most enjoyable physical activity I found so far. (mating ritual)
Another great activity is sport games. (hunting or war)

Farm labour as well as working out in the gym are neolithic abominations, lead to bad results in the long term and bore me to tears.

60
Primal Diet / Re: Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 26, 2012, 03:34:01 pm »
I should add that only by reducing my meat-intake to zero did those problems I mentioned, disappear. While symptoms were less frequent on a cooked diet with 20% meat, they still happened after I ate any cooked animal food. Incidentally, I have no problems now, whatsoever on a diet very high in raw meat.

Makes sense. You can reduce damage done by cooked meat but not get rid of totally. That's why I'm switching to raw myself. But eating cooked meat is not paleo anyway.
I wonder if KD is going to bring a lot of samples of people suffering on raw paleo diet that he mentioned.

61
Primal Diet / Re: Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 26, 2012, 03:13:48 pm »
No, my health was shattered on a SAD/SMD diet. When I switched to a cooked, palaeolithic diet, my health worsened a lot more. By that stage, due to near-destroyed glands, I had lost the ability to digest any cooked animal foods. This resulted in extremely painful stomach-aches after I ate any cooked animal foods, along with rectal bleeding and chronic, very painful constipation. I also got even more tired than before, and anxiety levels increased.Oh, and I got extra skin-inflammation.

Similar to my symptoms. But they appear when I try to eat low-carb plus crazy amounts of meat some "gurus" recommend. This recommendation goes against my common sense as in my opinion never people had such amounts of meat for long periods with that little carbs and fiber.

I reduced amount of meat, I only eat it with raw vegetables and leaves plus a glass of kefir (for enzymes). I also eat cooked potatoes or yam. Increased amount of fats (eating lean was another stupid idea, promoted by some gurus in early days of paleo). This solved constipation problems and it seems closer to what people ate during late paleo times when they started to cook food.

I feel much better on such diet than on SAD diet (gone all kinds of nasty digestive problems that bugged me since early childhood and became worse every year)

However I feel it is not optimal (having to take kefir does not seem natural to me) and I already felt that raw food does magic, so I'm transitioning to it slowly, thank you for great post on this.

62
Primal Diet / Re: Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 26, 2012, 02:49:58 pm »
My health was ruined on a cooked, palaeolithic diet. And dairy, for sure, was even worse in this regard.

I have some doubts that "cooked" and "palaeolithic" can be used in one sentence :) Anyway, cooked palaeolithic is good as transitional diet. I am surprised however that you ruined your health with it. So you were ok on SAD diet and after switching to cooked palaeolithic became sick?

63
Primal Diet / Re: Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 26, 2012, 11:39:11 am »
I forgot about veggie juice.  Good point. 

Also, excellent point about raw meat phobias.

And KD, there are plenty of us moderators and members here who use other alternative healing methods BESIDES diet. I use magnesium and vitamin D-3 supplements regularly, and also supplement with different herbs sometimes.   I also am very into posture work from Esther Gokhale, and lots and lots of other stuff.  I'm no "blind paleo re-enactor", so to speak.  I do what works.   Eating pretty much 100% raw really seems to keep my body young and healthy, relatively, so I keep doing it.

That's the whole point of discussion - determine, what really works long term. For smoker a cigarette works, because it temporarily removes his cravings and symptoms of detoxification. But it is not going to help him long term. Having said that, there are smokers who live past 100 years.

D3 supplements perfectly fit paleo diet as a replacement for sunlight, but I don't see how milk and other recommendations by AV fit into picture.

I prefer to see what is there, not trying to read mind of AV. Based on what I saw in his book, there was no mentioning about transitional nature of his diet.

My goal is not to blame AV or tout paleo diet, I just want to have answers to questions that puzzle me. If there is better way to evaluate diet than evolutionary perspective I would accept it (and change my nick :)).

64
Primal Diet / Re: Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 26, 2012, 07:45:48 am »
Not sure how I can say it any better.

There is only opposing evidence to any mechanism that the body heals best under 'natural' (pretentious) circumstances when in a contemporary setting, and there is no reason why an intelligent person would pick a historic person that supposedly didn't have a problem and assume this held the key to their complex problem or represents the optimum expression of health.

Can you provide a sample when eating paleo style worsened somebody's condition in modern environment?
Do you think that adding more damaging neolithic foods (like milk) would improve somebody long term in a contemporary settings?
We are not talking about healing or transition here. It seemed to me that AV recommended milk as constant part of the diet.

65
Primal Diet / Re: Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 25, 2012, 10:10:00 pm »
KD, I'm afraid I can't get your point exactly, despite large number of letters you use to outline it. You can provide better criteria than evolutionary one to choose optimal diet?

66
Primal Diet / Re: Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 25, 2012, 02:22:47 pm »
I count at least 10 ex forum members here who eat large quanities of milk and claim their health is never better and have labs to prove this improvement. More notably how in dire straits they were following most health-guessing here. I count a far greater number of main posters here who never actually share a single shred of documentable evidence about their own personal health, but who have tons of ideas on how things should be.

Well, if we are going to follow some claims, any diet can seem optimal - there are a lot of healthy vegans, frutarians, damn, even SAD eaters! There is a woman in Australia who claims to eat only thin air!

For any lab research there are tens opposing lab researches.

Can we believe our instincts? Not with neolithic and cooked food for sure. Look and macdonalds kids. Maybe with raw food? Look at the fate of GCB wife.

Our own experiece? Hardly. It can be ok in the short term, but in long term a lot of problems can be unnoticed.

That's why the only thing seems more a less reliable to me: eat the way our bodies evolved to eat.

Btw, did AV shared his own medical documents or his son, or that girl Owanza, who claimed to cure from multiple tumours?

67
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Does instincto lead to overeating?
« on: April 24, 2012, 04:04:39 pm »
My experience has been that instincto principles cure overeating. For years, I had what was called binge-eating disorder. It stopped immediately when I started eating raw foods the way that GCB outlines. On the occasions that I eat cooked or processed foods for social events, it is impossible for me to find the stop. In addition, all that psycho-babble about eating disorders was a lot of hot air, IMO. I cannot address other people's experiences, but this is what happens to me.

No doubt, people would eat less on raw paleo diet then on SAD diet but I wonder if it is still too much.. After all GCB admitted himself that he and his wife overate beef. Blaming selection for that seems like a stretch to me. Feast/famine theory  seems more feasible to me.

68
Primal Diet / Re: Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 24, 2012, 03:50:38 pm »
Aajonus recommends honey and dairy because those are foods that people addicted to cooked foods can enjoy easily, as replacements for sweet/fatty junk food.

So his diet is transitional? I believe that honey is great as seasonal treat and for healing purposes but I really doubt it is good for constant consumption.

He recommends to avoid fasting, and also recommends to eat a lot of food, because he wants people to avoid getting so hungry that their cravings get too strong, which could cause them to backslide into eating cooked junk.

Hm, why people should backslide into eating _cooked_ food when they are hungry? They might as well overeat raw food after fasting which seems natural to me. I believe that people in paleo times had to fast pretty often (like all animals in wilderness), so fasting should be incorporated in our genes as a time for body cleanup. AV himself was not happy about his fasting because he was drinking his own urine and was vegetarian at the time, big surprise.

He recommends blending because most people don't chew well, and often have digestion problems.

This might be a good option for very sick people, but seems like a bad habit long term.

He also recommends dairy because it can be a good transition food, from SAD food to raw paleo foods.  Dairy is not ideal for many people, even when fermented, raw and grassfed, but it's better than McDonald's cheeseburgers.

Thanks cherimoya_kid , great explanation. But this seems rather transitional to me. For people who start to switch to raw paleo style this is perfect. (I myself find that fermented milk greatly helps my digestion while fresh milk gives me problems right away) I didn't find AV claims that his diet is only transitional however, can you comment on this?

69
Primal Diet / Re: Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 24, 2012, 03:38:10 pm »
Yes, but only small numbers of humans were on the coast. Most appear to have followed migrating herds further inland. Whatever the case, salt is unnecessary when there are far healthier natural salts in meat/blood etc. already.

There are salt lakes inland, mineral springs. Plus animals eat mineralized clay (AV actually recommends this, go figure) I heard that chimpanzees eat dirt and gorillas eat their own faeces to restore minerals balance. Salt seems like a better alternative :) Elephants migrate to salt deposits regularly.

But you are right, animals that need mineral supplements are mostly herbivorous. Probably meat diet fixes that, but do you really think that paleo diet was all-meat all year round?


70
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Does instincto lead to overeating?
« on: April 24, 2012, 08:40:09 am »
'Overeating' is not so easily to define in my opinion, because mostly we have preconceived ideas about how much of individual foods we should or shouldn't eat, but this may not match physiological requirements at the time.
Bodily homeostasis is a wonderful mechanism.

Physiological requirements may not match instinctive requirements. It seems logical to me that given a chance, ancient man would eat far beyond physiological requirements at the moment to make storage of nutrients for future period of famine.

My point is maybe providing body with constant and wide supply of foods around the year is not natural and leads to chronic overeating.

I started to think about it when found out about GCB wife cause. It is very sad and unexpected but can be explained by idea of overeating. As GCB stated himself, she overate beef for a long time which would be impossible in wilderness, where such kind of meet was rare commodity.


71
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Does instincto lead to overeating?
« on: April 24, 2012, 08:32:42 am »
Pineapple is a sweet fruit.  If you're eating sour ones, then you're getting low-quality, low-Brix ones.  I don't the sour/low-Brix ones.

Any fatty food gives me a very sudden change, including fatty meats.

As far as other sweet fruits go, I generally do get a stop with them.  Maybe I'm just paying closer attention, or maybe it's just because I've geen doing the Instincto thing for about 10 years now, and am in very good touch with my instincts.

I would say pine apples I eat are sour-sweet, they are very sweet comparing to other fruits but feeling of sourness kicks in pretty quickly.

I wonder if instincts make you overeat slightly but constantly? After all it makes sense in environment where food is scarce to overeat at any opportunity. Could it be that your body is in state of chronic overeating due to instincts?




72
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Does instincto lead to overeating?
« on: April 23, 2012, 08:38:27 pm »
I get a stop with every single fruit ever.  Of course, I'm defining stop probably more like GCB or Iguana do...for instance, if I'm eating pineapple, I stop before it makes my tongue bleed.  :)  It still TASTES good, but...that bromelain enzyme in it dissolves my tongue after a while.  ROFL

Yeah, pineapple is evil, I get a stop with it pretty soon also :) This happens with many sour fruits. Can't eat a lot of oranges or apples.  But there is no limit with sweet fruits..

cherimoya_kid, how about meat, especially fatty varieties?

73
Primal Diet / Questions about Primal Diet
« on: April 23, 2012, 04:01:44 pm »
Hi guys,

I finished reading We Want To Live couple of weeks ago. It mostly makes sense and descriptions of healing are really amazing (does anyone know if there are medical records available to prove them?)

However a couple of things seemed strange to me, maybe someone can provide more information (sorry if some of them were discussed before)

These recommendations from AV contradict my understanding of environment that human body evolved in:

1. No water drinking
2. No salt

Water and salt are readily available in nature, being consumed by animals, why would they be harmful to the humans?

3. Dairy products consumption

No animal drinks milk past childhood and from other species.

4. Constant honey consumption

Honey is not readily available in nature at all, it is rare, very seasonal and not easily accessible.

5. Blending

I suspect that ancient diet was very mono oriented, it took a lot of time to get from one food source to another, so blending does not make sense to me in that context and was technically impossible.

6. Vegetable juices (no fiber)

It is known that monkeys chew foliage for juice and spit it out afterwards. But they still consume large amount of solid plant matter, there are plenty of soft vegetables that don't make sense to spit out at all, fiber might be useful for a number of reasons - provide movement of food mass through digestive track and provide food for intestine flora.

7. No Fasting

There are no organic supermarkets in the wilderness so animals have to fast for long periods between seasons of abundance. I believe that human body used such periods for repair and detox.


For me personally it is harder to justify raw vs cooked then the points above, at least people used to cook for a long time, while they did things that AV recommends only during neolithic times.




74
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Does instincto lead to overeating?
« on: April 23, 2012, 02:13:26 pm »
It could be. Obesity is a relatively modern condition. The ready availability of fruit on demand and out of season is a VERY modern development.

That's exactly what I am talking about. I would also add that meat availability was probably also seasonal or at least very rare. So given a chance people would overeat raw meat, maybe even more than fruits.

I'd like to think that anyone taking an instincto approach to eating wouldn't allow blind appetite to override common sense. But then I read accounts of people eating something like seven watermelons in one sitting and I have to wonder.

Well, maybe overeating particular food for short period of time is ok, as long as it is seasonal, but continuous overeating can be dangerous.

75
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Does instincto lead to overeating?
« on: April 23, 2012, 01:02:47 pm »
I have never, EVER experienced a stop for native persimmons. Nor for muscadines and scuppernongs.

Same for me with sweet cherry, grapes, watermelons and melons. I can't eat too much apple though. Such a tendency to overeat could probably be explained that period when fruits are ripe very short in the wilderness (a week or two), so whenever such a source was found, it made sense to overeat, as the next chance could happen only next year.

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