Author Topic: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites  (Read 9856 times)

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Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« on: October 16, 2010, 10:45:04 pm »
The say, all the tribes weston price studied got ill eventually, he didnt study them properly, etc etc.

yet they ate a raw paleo diet ?? are they implying that the raw paleo diet made them ill ?

They counter this by saying they got ill because they cooked their meat, they ate grains, or they ate dairy.

Yet, not all the tribes ate dairy, not all the tribes ate grains either.
They cooked some of their meat, ate some raw aswell.




Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 11:00:40 pm »
 :o  Prepare for the wrath of Tyler.  ;D
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
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Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2010, 11:32:32 pm »
 -v -v -v -v -v -v -v -v -v -v l) l) l) l) l) l) l) l) l) l) l) l) :o :o :o :o :o >: >: >: >: >: >: >:


The above remarks in the opening post are the biggest load of b*ll*cks imaginable. None of the tribes Weston-Price studied practised a genuine rawpalaeodiet. The closest to rawpalaeo were the Inuit and yet even they ate something like 50 percent of their diet in cooked form. The rest all did something  wrong, such as eating grains or raw dairy or whatever.

Now, many HG tribes benefitted by undergoing caloric restriction and Intermittent Fasting which helped alleviate some of the negative effects of their deficient non-rawpalaeodiets - plus they went in for greater levels of exercise which, just like fasting, has been shown by scientists to reduce a little the levels of heat-created toxins in the body(well, only  in the case of AGEs/advanced glycation end products). However, that, of course, does not make those HG diets remotely healthy, in  and of themselves.

As for WP, he blithely ignored multiple evidence showing that some of his tribes were not remotely as healthy as he had claimed(  2 years ago, here,I gave previous examples re ill-health among the manioc-eating Maori, for example), plus his whirlwind tour around the world made it physically impossible for him to get sufficiently accurate data to support his silly claims.


This makes me yearn for the good old days of stocks and tarring-and-feathering.

"“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell "“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
? George Washington

Offline KD

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 12:13:10 am »
ahem, yes, other than that the usefulness in WP is in his observation that their were common denominators in various tribes of what they ate and what they did not despite their large variations in actual dietary makeup. People here are interested in a raw 'paleo' nutrition/lifestyle. Why would it be wrong to analyze or criticize peoples that obviously varied from this concept particularly when we do not enjoy their circumstance/food quality/conditions-of-health? If you feel like WAPF that one can just appropriate any old traditional way of eating and create the best health or cure all your ailments, power to you. Speaking for myself, I do not. Ah well, from other posts it sounds like you are not genuinely interested in hearing what other people have to say anyway and have it all figured out.

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 01:13:21 am »
I agree with you, but the people he studied certainly have better teeth than me, or anyone else in the westernised countries.

So what, they got ill. Was this after they introduced westernised foods ?

Offline wodgina

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 01:20:04 am »
The say, all the tribes weston price studied got ill eventually, he didnt study them properly, etc etc.

yet they ate a raw paleo diet ?? are they implying that the raw paleo diet made them ill ?

They counter this by saying they got ill because they cooked their meat, they ate grains, or they ate dairy.

Yet, not all the tribes ate dairy, not all the tribes ate grains either.
They cooked some of their meat, ate some raw aswell.

you love to troll this forum.


“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 01:23:26 am »
NO, I just want to understand why they hate weston price. So what, the man made a few mistakes in his research. His heart was in the right place and Im sure he enjoyed travelling the world.

So according to you, raw paleo eaters are invincible and will never get ill ?

Offline wodgina

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2010, 01:40:16 am »
NO, I just want to understand why they hate weston price. So what, the man made a few mistakes in his research. His heart was in the right place and Im sure he enjoyed travelling the world.

So according to you, raw paleo eaters are invincible and will never get ill ?

LOL

“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline KD

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2010, 02:29:48 am »
I agree with you, but the people he studied certainly have better teeth than me, or anyone else in the westernised countries.


hmm, yeah its because you are British.

but seriously, that IS the whole conundrum of WP, the research isn't in-it-of-itself bad (maybe could have been more thorough like Tyler suggests). It is the translation to modern peoples in modern conditions and its relevance which is under scrutiny. So while it could be totally possible (though not nec. so) that a living HG type eating a fair amount of cooked traditional foods might have better health than a RVAF dieter that spent 20+ years living a typical industrial life, the important thing is which diet is better for making that person healthier. There is no hypocrisy in being specific about one wants and doesn't. Although I agree that some of the 'bashing' for reasons of promoting fermented grains and dairy (which I believe are health foods compared to how most of the world eats) is pretty unnecessary but would only be hypocritical if people in turn eat these things no?

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2010, 02:42:17 am »
you love to troll this forum.



Yes, I agree, it does seem suspicious.

"“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell "“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
? George Washington

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 05:20:32 am »
Yes but he found tribes that didnt eat grains or dairy either.

He also found they ate some raw and some cooked.


Offline KD

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2010, 05:28:43 am »
and

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2010, 05:37:35 am »
Yes but he found tribes that didnt eat grains or dairy either.

He also found they ate some raw and some cooked.


Irrelevant as he wrongly suggested that all the various combinations were healthy. As for raw and cooked issues, also irrelevant as the cooked element meant that the tribespeople could not possibly have had the idyllic health that WP pretended they had, as cooked foods contain  toxins in them , directly related to worsened aging effects etc.
"“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell "“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
? George Washington

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2010, 09:10:12 pm »
so your saying they got ill because they ate cooked food ? wow, you will do anything to prove weston price wrong.

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2010, 09:17:14 pm »
so your saying they got ill because they ate cooked food ? wow, you will do anything to prove weston price wrong.
Trolling again, I see....


try to read the previous entries I made showing how unhealthy the Maori were well BEFORE they took up Western diets. Then you might eventually grasp that Weston-Price did not take enough time to evalute properly the health of his tribes, and simply assumed, falsely, that the Noble Savage theory was right, without real evidence.

Aside from that, we have ample scientific studies showing the negative effects of eating cooked foods, so it is absurd to suggest that these cooked-eating HG tribes were somehow immune from such effects.
"“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell "“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
? George Washington

Offline wodgina

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2010, 10:03:34 pm »
so your saying they got ill because they ate cooked food ? wow, you will do anything to prove weston price wrong.

'wow' = shaming language

Now you've been outed what will you post next?
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Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2010, 11:29:46 pm »
what are you quoting this from.

At least I can refer to the weston price book for details, where do you get this information

And Weston Price himself said, the tribes got cavities, about 1 per 100, compared to the westernised sugar diet, where it was about 25 per 100,

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2010, 12:05:16 am »
what are you quoting this from.

At least I can refer to the weston price book for details, where do you get this information

And Weston Price himself said, the tribes got cavities, about 1 per 100, compared to the westernised sugar diet, where it was about 25 per 100,
Try at least to read the past threads before making such absurd comments, where I quote the various links where it is mentioned just how badly the maoris did re health pre-Contact with Europeans. And cavities are irrelevant as really horrible dental health is mostly to do with SAD-eaters and dental health is only a tiny part of real health. In other words, having  a dentist like WP state what is healthy is absurd as he was not even qualified as to real, general health.
"“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell "“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
? George Washington

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2010, 12:34:09 am »
Okay.

How would you argue with durianriders ? I quoted to him weston a price and he mentioned the china study in response. What else can be said about 30bananasday(70 bananas actually) apart from the fact that eating all that fruit is just silly and ridiculous.


Online TylerDurden

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2010, 12:50:18 am »
The china study has already been shown to be flawed by numerous websites.
"“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell "“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
? George Washington

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2010, 10:20:54 pm »
2 things,

even if the weston price tribes ate dairy and grains and cooked food, his point was they were healthier than evryone eating westernised food. he did more than the teeth, explaining how they were generally happier and told of a man who ate a westernised diet had 'great difficulty' waking up in the morning compared to a man who ate a tribe diet, and other things not connected to teeth

secondly, the tribes were eating the best they could with what they had ! not all of them could eat a raw paleo diet for obvious reaons like a lack of animals, lack of food choices in general. for example the gaelics lived on fish and oats predominantly, the swiss lived on bread, dairy, and meat only once or twice a week.

they did the best they could from the land they were living on. it wasn't a competition to see who was healthiest.


Offline KD

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2010, 10:37:31 pm »
they did the best they could from the land they were living on. it wasn't a competition to see who was healthiest.


ster, the point of this forum (and intelligent discussion in general I believe) is to not state obvious things that everyone already knows but to find deeper truths (in this case health). if you are satisfied with the diet supplied by the WAPF as an interpretation of WAPs findings, than you should have no reason to argue with folks here or fruitarians or whatever you spend your time doing, that is, if you are even on a WAP-esq or paleo or raw diet which is increasingly doubtful.

the whole reason people are dismissive (which would not include everyone here) of WAP is that it is an oversimplification of what it means to be healthy -particularly for modern folks removed from such situations - not that the people studied were not healthy by modern low standards or did not do the best they could, or that WAP himself did not enjoy himself traveling or whatever. I personally don't believe these people were unhealthy as I already mentioned or had serious debilitating issues from their traditional foods but that doesn't mean it has value necessarily in my life, as i am not them.

can you bring any experience to this discussion whatsoever about how WAP or WAPF style diets have improved your health, to the point of making a RAF diet unnecessary or hypocritical?

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2010, 11:24:22 pm »
The point is that WP was solely qualified re dental health( and maybe not even then given that some of his dental-related theories have been heavily criticised in the past). His claims re other non-teeth-related subjects are generally without foundation, given his lack of expertise in them,  and he did not spend enough time on each specific tribe to make a decent analysis of their health and lifestyle.

More to the point, the claim that HG diets were healthier than SAD diets is irrelevant as there were a number of aspects of HG diets which made them less healthy than rawpalaeo diets. Naturally, for anyone in ill-health, it would be stupid for us to advocate a WAPF-based diet consisting of things like dairy or grains or partially-cooked diets when so many of us have had past serious problems from eating such diets.
"“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell "“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
? George Washington

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2010, 01:40:53 am »
Use your energy to argue with durianrider and Therawvoice on youtube, it would be more worthwhile.

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Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2010, 02:10:02 am »
Use your energy to argue with durianrider and Therawvoice on youtube, it would be more worthwhile.
I tried, but they somehow blocked my comments. At any rate, the various points I have raised are simply ones already raised  by a multitude of other RVAFers, so I am simply repeating the obvious.
"“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell "“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
? George Washington