Other Raw-Animal-Food Diets (eg:- Primal Diet/Raw Version of Weston-Price Diet etc.) > Raw Weston Price

Fixing narrow palates and cranial deformities

(1/12) > >>

JaredBond:
This is a response to Raw Kyle and others in the topic "Fan of Price's work".  I'm answering here because I think it's important enough that even passerbys should see it, and also because it's been almost a year since anyone's responded in that topic.

Anyways, I was glad to see that someone linked to the exact article I was influenced by at the time:  "Is it Mental or is it Dental" by Raymond Silkman, from the WAPF website (http://www.westonaprice.org/healthissues/facial-development.html).  However, that article doesn't illustrate what he does to actually treat his patients.  I wrote to Silkman, thinking maybe it was surgery, but he responded back saying he uses an "ALF Lightwire" device to expand the upper palates of people.  I'm not sure if he uses anything else, but the thing about ALF Lightwire is that it actually moves the bones of the entire face.  I've seen pictures online (though I can't find them now), and also if you actually see a practitioner they'll probably show you before and after pictures of their patients.

The idea is that a very gentle, steady force (rather than the strong and abrupt force of common expanders or surgery) will properly coerce the bones into moving and adapting, instead of wanting to snap back to their original position.  For instance, according to my practitioner, ALF patients never need a retainer.  And interestingly, the bones know when to stop moving as well- she's never had a patient where the jaw has expanded TOO much.  The second crucial element is giving space for the teeth to move- for example, my bottom teeth are temporarily going to be "built up" so that my bite in front doesn't close.  My theory is that your current bite is actually what's keeping your jaws (and therefore, cranial structure) in its current place, by way of you biting down throughout the day- sort of the same gentle but steady pressure the ALF uses to move the teeth.

I'm kind of filling in the blanks here, but what this sounds like is that your head, face and jaws actually know where they should be, and WANT to move or grow there, if you only give them a chance.  I know you're not supposed to be able to grow past about age 20, but people of ALL AGES do lightwire and it works.  I've seen the dental casts and pictures of a patient treated in her late 60s.  The results were dramatic.  The only downside is that it can take a long time- up to 6 years.  But it can take as little as 1 year, if you're young.  I'm 24 myself, and I'm projected to take 3 years (my Lightwire is currently being ordered).  I'm really hoping for sooner though, as maybe better nutrition than most will speed up the process.  However, I don’t think supplementing with calcium to “grow bones” is a good idea, in case anyone was thinking that.*

The other downside is that it's expensive, at least with the people that I've contacted.  I guess all orthodontics are, but still, it's a tiny piece of metal.  But, it does require a huge amount of expertise to adjust it properly and predict where the bones will go.  Just be prepared for the price.  It's probably going to be about $1000 to get started with someone, $500 for the x-rays (and if you have someone really in depth, they will want all sorts of x-rays and measurements), $400 per visit (once every 1-2 months), and $2000 for braces afterwards.  Some things like the x-rays may be covered by insurance- heck, maybe more.  Tell the insurance people, or get diagnosed for something called "myofascial pain" or TMJ- "temporomandibular joint disorder", or sleep apnea (go to a sleep lab- ask your doctor for an order), and maybe they'll cover some or all of it.  It should be in their books.

You can see if any people doing this are in your area here: http://www.alforthodontics.com/Practitioners%20&%20Labs.htm.  This site is run by Ljuba Lemke, who treats with the ALF and also is one of the key teachers for it.  Her site is http://www.holistichealthsource.com.  You can see pictures of what the ALF can do, top and bottom jaw, here: http://www.icnr.com/cs/cs_05.html.

More info on the ALF:  It was invented by Darick Nordstrom in the 1980s and is manufactured by Murdock Laboratories in Colorado (only place as far as I know).  You can see Nordstrom here in this video (all infomercial-y and ready for mass consumption):  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx5oXFrceB0 .  Although, since the 80s, the technology has been improving.  For example, the more lightweight and flexible the metal, the better.  Also, make sure they are attaching it to your 2nd or 3rd back molars, not the 1st, as those have more influence on the bones of the face.  My practitioner, Rebecca Griffiths of Phoenix AZ, says to have worked with Nordstrom and actually convinced him to make this change.

So, while I can't say for sure because I haven't had it yet, this ALF Lightwire seems very promising.  I have some hope it will do something for me, though my head is a bit small and narrow and I don’t think it will change that.  I found this site because I think low carb is the way to proper nutrition, and proper nutrition of me and my parents would have avoided these problems to begin with.  Seeing the changes in Dr. Price’s natives is the first thing that clued me in to that.  I’ll be letting you know how it goes for me.

-Jared Bond, AZ

P.S.  I hope this forum stays up forever, because I reference this site to vegans and vegetarians!

*(Sadly, as expert as my practitioner is at orthodontics, she suggested supplementing with calcium.  Now, I just read in "Gut and Psychology Syndrome", by Natasha-Campbell-McBride, that nutrients compete for absorption with other nutrients in the gut; calcium for instance competes with magnesium, zinc, copper, iron, some amino acids and other things.  When you eat an unnatural amount of any substance, the ratio of the others will be off, creating a deficiency (pg. 197-198).  Plus, supplementing with calcium decreases stomach acid, disrupting the entire process of digestion.  Too much calcium in the blood is also not a good thing- calcium kills brain cells if they are not able to pump it out, as with an MSG reaction.  Besides, bones are mostly synthesized from protein, as Barry Groves points out in his book "Trick and Treat" (pg. 365))

cherimoya_kid:
I've been thinking about getting this done on my daughter and myself.  Let us know how it goes.

As far as mineral supplements go, it's fine to supplement with calcium so long as you take some magnesium.  They balance each other.  I take a lot of dolomite and bone meal every day, which are very calcium-rich, but  balance that with lots of Pascalite, which is very magnesium-rich.  I've had blood work done, and my calcium/magnesium ratio is perfect, and I've been doing that for almost a year now.

wodgina:
Interesting, might check those sites out. Might be a good preventative for when I get my wisdoms.

Stig of the Dump:

--- Quote from: JaredBond on July 13, 2009, 01:18:02 PM ---This is a response to Raw Kyle and others in the topic "Fan of Price's work".  I'm answering here because I think it's important enough that even passerbys should see it, and also because it's been almost a year since anyone's responded in that topic.

Anyways, I was glad to see that someone linked to the exact article I was influenced by at the time:  "Is it Mental or is it Dental" by Raymond Silkman, from the WAPF website (http://www.westonaprice.org/healthissues/facial-development.html).  However, that article doesn't illustrate what he does to actually treat his patients.  I wrote to Silkman, thinking maybe it was surgery, but he responded back saying he uses an "ALF Lightwire" device to expand the upper palates of people.  I'm not sure if he uses anything else, but the thing about ALF Lightwire is that it actually moves the bones of the entire face.  I've seen pictures online (though I can't find them now), and also if you actually see a practitioner they'll probably show you before and after pictures of their patients.

The idea is that a very gentle, steady force (rather than the strong and abrupt force of common expanders or surgery) will properly coerce the bones into moving and adapting, instead of wanting to snap back to their original position.  For instance, according to my practitioner, ALF patients never need a retainer.  And interestingly, the bones know when to stop moving as well- she's never had a patient where the jaw has expanded TOO much.  The second crucial element is giving space for the teeth to move- for example, my bottom teeth are temporarily going to be "built up" so that my bite in front doesn't close.  My theory is that your current bite is actually what's keeping your jaws (and therefore, cranial structure) in its current place, by way of you biting down throughout the day- sort of the same gentle but steady pressure the ALF uses to move the teeth.

I'm kind of filling in the blanks here, but what this sounds like is that your head, face and jaws actually know where they should be, and WANT to move or grow there, if you only give them a chance.  I know you're not supposed to be able to grow past about age 20, but people of ALL AGES do lightwire and it works.  I've seen the dental casts and pictures of a patient treated in her late 60s.  The results were dramatic.  The only downside is that it can take a long time- up to 6 years.  But it can take as little as 1 year, if you're young.  I'm 24 myself, and I'm projected to take 3 years (my Lightwire is currently being ordered).  I'm really hoping for sooner though, as maybe better nutrition than most will speed up the process.  However, I don’t think supplementing with calcium to “grow bones” is a good idea, in case anyone was thinking that.*

The other downside is that it's expensive, at least with the people that I've contacted.  I guess all orthodontics are, but still, it's a tiny piece of metal.  But, it does require a huge amount of expertise to adjust it properly and predict where the bones will go.  Just be prepared for the price.  It's probably going to be about $1000 to get started with someone, $500 for the x-rays (and if you have someone really in depth, they will want all sorts of x-rays and measurements), $400 per visit (once every 1-2 months), and $2000 for braces afterwards.  Some things like the x-rays may be covered by insurance- heck, maybe more.  Tell the insurance people, or get diagnosed for something called "myofascial pain" or TMJ- "temporomandibular joint disorder", or sleep apnea (go to a sleep lab- ask your doctor for an order), and maybe they'll cover some or all of it.  It should be in their books.

You can see if any people doing this are in your area here: http://www.alforthodontics.com/Practitioners%20&%20Labs.htm.  This site is run by Ljuba Lemke, who treats with the ALF and also is one of the key teachers for it.  Her site is http://www.holistichealthsource.com.  You can see pictures of what the ALF can do, top and bottom jaw, here: http://www.icnr.com/cs/cs_05.html.

More info on the ALF:  It was invented by Darick Nordstrom in the 1980s and is manufactured by Murdock Laboratories in Colorado (only place as far as I know).  You can see Nordstrom here in this video (all infomercial-y and ready for mass consumption):  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx5oXFrceB0.  Although, since the 80s, the technology has been improving.  For example, the more lightweight and flexible the metal, the better.  Also, make sure they are attaching it to your 2nd or 3rd back molars, not the 1st, as those have more influence on the bones of the face.  My practitioner, Rebecca Griffiths of Phoenix AZ, says to have worked with Nordstrom and actually convinced him to make this change.

So, while I can't say for sure because I haven't had it yet, this ALF Lightwire seems very promising.  I have some hope it will do something for me, though my head is a bit small and narrow and I don’t think it will change that.  I found this site because I think low carb is the way to proper nutrition, and proper nutrition of me and my parents would have avoided these problems to begin with.  Seeing the changes in Dr. Price’s natives is the first thing that clued me in to that.  I’ll be letting you know how it goes for me.

-Jared Bond, AZ

P.S.  I hope this forum stays up forever, because I reference this site to vegans and vegetarians!

*(Sadly, as expert as my practitioner is at orthodontics, she suggested supplementing with calcium.  Now, I just read in "Gut and Psychology Syndrome", by Natasha-Campbell-McBride, that nutrients compete for absorption with other nutrients in the gut; calcium for instance competes with magnesium, zinc, copper, iron, some amino acids and other things.  When you eat an unnatural amount of any substance, the ratio of the others will be off, creating a deficiency (pg. 197-198).  Plus, supplementing with calcium decreases stomach acid, disrupting the entire process of digestion.  Too much calcium in the blood is also not a good thing- calcium kills brain cells if they are not able to pump it out, as with an MSG reaction.  Besides, bones are mostly synthesized from protein, as Barry Groves points out in his book "Trick and Treat" (pg. 365))


--- End quote ---
Just had to bump this amazingly useful post.  Thanks!

TylerDurden:
The Weston-Price forum is in no danger of becoming extinct, though I'm rather surprised it hasn't taken off in the way the Primal Diet forum has. We have 1 very important thread on the WP forum with an online version of Dr Price's book which a lot of people read, so it's here to stay, regardless.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

Go to full version