Author Topic: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham  (Read 25192 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,746
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2015, 12:35:34 am »
One of the links provided above  had the WAPF threaten to expel any WAPF chapter leaders who dissented, like they did with Ron Schmid. Does anyone know why Ron Schmid was expelled? All I know about him was that he wrote "The Untold Story of Milk" and sold a vast amount of allegedly raw pills, such as raw thyroid etc., which did not work for me and were very expensive for non-US customers(though admittedly quite cheap for Americans).
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline Ioanna

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,339
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2015, 02:11:59 am »
Quote
What are people's vitamin D levels here?

I'd really like to get mine tested again now that I'm eating and healthy, but my vitamin D level used to be really low. I tried FCLO, and it made me horribly sicker than I already was. I'm afraid to ever try it again. Like Jessica said, could have been the histamines. I eat organs occasionally, and I eat whole fish when I can, so I'm hoping I've got a handle on vitamin D!

FWIW, my dog loved the remaining FCLO, won't touch regular CLO.

Quote
I recall one extract by Ray Peat in which he attacked grassfed meats because of their higher omega-3 content, and instead promoted grainfed meats.

Bc shifting the animal to a higher omega-6 content is not hypocritical re PUFA concern??  :o
Not doubting what you read TD, that just doesn't make sense.


Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,515
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2015, 02:15:23 am »
I don't understand why people like Ray Peat, etc. get to make a living spreading dietary nonsense, while we get paid not one red cent for what we do here. Is it because we have a good product but poor people skills? LOL

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,746
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2015, 02:40:56 am »

Bc shifting the animal to a higher omega-6 content is not hypocritical re PUFA concern??  :o
Not doubting what you read TD, that just doesn't make sense.


I think Ray Peat was a condemning omega-3s as being far worse than any omega-6s. I am pretty sure of this, but I admit I cannot immediately find the right source.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,746
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2015, 02:46:27 am »
I don't understand why people like Ray Peat, etc. get to make a living spreading dietary nonsense, while we get paid not one red cent for what we do here. Is it because we have a good product but poor people skills? LOL
My position on allexperts.com makes me feel so virtuous and positively saintly. I hand out occasional info re raw diets and yet do not get paid for it. If I ever got paid for it, I would inevitably end up becoming a hopelessly corrupt  guru like Sally Fallon or Aajonus or Dr Mercola, possessing some good points but posessing many flaws due to a corrupt desire to make ever more money.

You can, of course, try to become a guru. You would need massive charisma like Dr Atkins, be willing to lie all the time about your dietary rivals, make up endless claims of 100% health for all your own products, write a book simple enough for the mass of morons worldwide  to be able to read, and sell lots of (raw?) supplements(the most successful dietary gurus are the ones selling supplements).
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline Eric

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 849
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • EricGarza.info
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2015, 04:50:45 am »
The reason Ron Schmid was prevented from speaking and selling at the conference was because he wrote an article where he blamed his heart problems on his consumption of Green Pasture's Fermented Cod Liver Oil. The article was called Too Much of a Not So Good Thing. This violated the WAPF policy for exhibitors and speakers that they are not allowed to say anything bad about any products that are sold by conference exhibitors or that are produced by companies that donate funds to the foundation.
My personal website: EricGarza.info

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,746
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2015, 05:17:36 am »
The reason Ron Schmid was prevented from speaking and selling at the conference was because he wrote an article where he blamed his heart problems on his consumption of Green Pasture's Fermented Cod Liver Oil. The article was called Too Much of a Not So Good Thing. This violated the WAPF policy for exhibitors and speakers that they are not allowed to say anything bad about any products that are sold by conference exhibitors or that are produced by companies that donate funds to the foundation.
Thanks. I just  read online that you are a WAPF chapter leader. I do hope you are not being targetted right now for any past so-called "transgressions"?
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,205
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2015, 05:22:36 am »
Tyler, I disagree with Ray Peat on some things (such as the importance of commensal microbiota) but I tried to confirm your allegation about Ray Peat advocating grain-fed meats, and all I found was these:
Quote
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/meat-physiology-stress.shtml
"(Grass-fed organic beef fresh from a local farm would be a reasonable choice.)"

Ray Peat’s diet 
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AV-Skeptics/message/5523
 – with cheese and milk, the feeding of the animals (grassfed vs. grainfed) is more the issue than raw vs. pasteurized.

 
I think Ray Peat was a condemning omega-3s as being far worse than any omega-6s. I am pretty sure of this, but I admit I cannot immediately find the right source.
Peat considers both omega-6 and omega-3 FAs to be toxic, especially when oxidized, and has frequently warned against both. I quickly searched and found that he does write more about omega-3, which has become popular in the media and diet forums in recent years, and warned that it is even more oxidizable than omega-6:
 
Quote
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fats-degeneration3.shtml
 The “balance” between the omega -3 and the omega -6 fatty acids is increasingly being presented as a defense against the toxic omega -6 fats. But the accumulation of unsaturated fats with aging makes any defense increasingly difficult, and the extreme instability of the highly unsaturated omega -3 fats creates additional problems.
 
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsuitablefats.shtml
among the polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) the omega -3 fatty acids react most easily with oxygen

 
Peat reported that even cod liver from unfermented sources had problems:
Quote
"Between the first and second world wars, cod liver oil was recommended as a vitamin supplement, at first as a source of vitamin A, and later as a source of vitamins A and D. But in the late 1940s, experimenters used it as the main fat in dogs' diet, and found that they all died from cancer, while the dogs on a standard diet had only a 5% cancer mortality. That sort of information, and the availability of synthetic vitamins, led to the decreased use of cod liver oil." http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fats-degeneration3.shtml

 
The reason Ron Schmid was prevented from speaking and selling at the conference was because he wrote an article where he blamed his heart problems on his consumption of Green Pasture's Fermented Cod Liver Oil. The article was called Too Much of a Not So Good Thing. This violated the WAPF policy for exhibitors and speakers that they are not allowed to say anything bad about any products that are sold by conference exhibitors or that are produced by companies that donate funds to the foundation.
Yes, and his opinion is rather credible, as he used to sell the GP RFCLO himself. The good news is that he says he has been recovering since he stopped taking daily high doses of CLO (more than the recommended amounts), which fits with his claim that it was the culprit (though that's not proof, of course).

It's difficult to know what to do when there is so much conflicting information and so many conflicting opinions. I was already planning on trying going without any supplements for vit D in the future, so this controversy is another incentive to try that. I think I'll continue to use topical vit D. Even before this controversy, I was mostly using the RFCLO I had recently purchased like a lip balm, figuring it would be safer applied to the skin than directly ingested, though some does get ingested this way, and I would also swallow a tiny amount. I figured the vitamin A might also be good for my lips. Danny Roddy and others recommended vitamin A for glucose-triggered lip chapping.

If I don't buy the RFCLO or CLO/butter oil mixture (which I bought this last time) again, I'll miss it. I actually liked the fermented taste and kick of the unflavored version--more so than vinegar, which many people say they like. A past jar did eventually go rancid, though, when it got down to about 1/3 left, as I took small doses and wasn't good about always keeping it refrigerated. That further increased the cost/unit for me, which was another reason I  hadn't been buying it. Some people say that the fresh product tastes "rancid," but if they tasted it when it truly goes bad some months after being opened, they would know that it can get far worse. LOL

I know people who think that all fish smells and tastes rancid--even if fresh caught that day, and to the point where they will exit a kitchen or house if fish is being cooked in it. During a period where I was doing a lot of fishing, I found that the more I ate and handled the fish, the less bad and less strong it smelled to me and the better it tasted. It seems like people adapt to it over time. I have seen videos of Inuit elders relishing and praising "stink heads" (fish fermented for about a year) and Chukchi people relishing fermented walrus that nearly made British physicians ill (the British also considered it "rancid" and they couldn't stand the smell of it, which didn't bother the Chukchi at all). However, the Inuit and Chukchi live in very cold climates, and they have certain physiological adaptations, and even they eat such foods seasonally, so their experience may not be that applicable to us.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Eric

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 849
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • EricGarza.info
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2015, 06:15:24 am »
I just  read online that you are a WAPF chapter leader. I do hope you are not being targetted right now for any past so-called "transgressions"?

If the foundation closes down my chapter because of any so-called "transgressions" I won't lose any sleep over it. I don't gain anything by being a chapter leader, and I've received plenty of gratitude from those on my email list for providing both sides of the FCLO story.
My personal website: EricGarza.info

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,515
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2015, 06:37:03 am »
Eric and phil, do you still trust the butter oil?

Offline Eric

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 849
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • EricGarza.info
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2015, 06:44:26 am »
I haven't used Green Pasture products on years. I tried the FCLO/BO blend, and I can't say it did anything useful for me. I've had much better results with respect to healing cavities by oil pulling with coconut oil with a drop of antiseptic essential oil in it. While I acknowledge that some claim to enjoy benefits from Green Pasture products, I personally don't think they're worth the money.
My personal website: EricGarza.info

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,515
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2015, 06:49:04 am »
I haven't used Green Pasture products on years. I tried the FCLO/BO blend, and I can't say it did anything useful for me. I've had much better results with respect to healing cavities by oil pulling with coconut oil with a drop of antiseptic essential oil in it. While I acknowledge that some claim to enjoy benefits from Green Pasture products, I personally don't think they're worth the money.

I used to have very sensitive teeth from overeating fruit, and coconut oil worked FAR better than butter oil to stop the problem. I gave up on butter oil after one jar, but have been brushing and oil pulling with coconut oil for probably 10 years now.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,205
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2015, 07:07:17 am »
Eric and phil, do you still trust the butter oil?
It's probably harder to screw up, but I already told my sister before I bought the jar of CLO/butter oil mix that I might just go with butter (and other animal and plant fats) in the future.

CLO seemed to do a tiny bit for my dental health, though so small it was hard to tell. The dental health claims via fat soluble vitamins were what originally interested me in it. Coconut oil pulling did nothing for me (I also tried other oils to no avail). Chewing hard suet and beef jerky did more (unfortunately, the latter seems to be my most constipating food). The real winner for me in dental health has been Gerolsteiner, with neem tooth powder and tea tree oil toothpicks probably #2 and 3, and of course eating healthy.

It's not Paleo/primal, but I also found by accident recently that microfiber cloths really scrub teeth well. I looked it up and others have noted it and there are now even microfiber toothbrushes. Don't know if they'll discover some side effect down the road, though. I'm generally cautious about new things.

Some time ago I also found that by keeping ice in my mouth adjacent to cold-sensitive teeth, that I completely eliminated their cold sensitivity. I can now put ice in any part of my mouth for any period of time without discomfort, and no more "ice cream headaches", no matter how cold something is.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline jessica

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,005
  • Country: 00
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2015, 10:32:31 am »
its truly a shame that by not being transparent and admitting to making mistakes the WAPFoundation may risk jeopardizing the legitimacy of some of the real benefits of part of their diet to people who have yet to be exposed or who are on the fence about its efficacy.   i honestly dont think anyone on this message board is egoic enough to uphold the type of guru facade that people seem to need to be convinced to eat a healthy diet and live a healthful life. 

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,515
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2015, 10:47:38 am »
its truly a shame that by not being transparent and admitting to making mistakes the WAPFoundation may risk jeopardizing the legitimacy of some of the real benefits of part of their diet to people who have yet to be exposed or who are on the fence about its efficacy.   i honestly dont think anyone on this message board is egoic enough to uphold the type of guru facade that people seem to need to be convinced to eat a healthy diet and live a healthful life. 

I agree. We're about fact, not material success.

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,746
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2015, 10:58:25 am »
I am amazed at how so many people feel the need to follow just one guru. My own experience showed that many different gurus were needed to be listened to in order for my  own health to improve, and that all of these gurus had some claims which were heavily flawed or even positively dangerous to me. Relying solely on oneself to judge health is also, admittedly, very dodgy given my experience, but a healthy, varied combination of different sources and info  is, imo, essential.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,205
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2015, 10:45:16 pm »
I am amazed at how so many people feel the need to follow just one guru. My own experience showed that many different gurus were needed to be listened to in order for my  own health to improve, and that all of these gurus had some claims which were heavily flawed or even positively dangerous to me. Relying solely on oneself to judge health is also, admittedly, very dodgy given my experience, but a healthy, varied combination of different sources and info  is, imo, essential.
Yes, good summary.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lb_on_the_cb

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2015, 10:33:22 am »
I am amazed at how so many people feel the need to follow just one guru. My own experience showed that many different gurus were needed to be listened to in order for my  own health to improve, and that all of these gurus had some claims which were heavily flawed or even positively dangerous to me. Relying solely on oneself to judge health is also, admittedly, very dodgy given my experience, but a healthy, varied combination of different sources and info  is, imo, essential.

good advice.

 in the past i tended to look for one health guru that had all the answers but seems like each one might have a little piece of the puzzle for me and is ultimately up to me to choose my path and figure out what makes sense and what doesn't.

Offline Satya

  • Trapper
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #68 on: September 15, 2015, 04:35:29 am »
For those who are interested, David Gumpert has posted a series of well-done blog entries about this controversy over the past few weeks. They are:



Wow!  I just came back and spent all afternoon reading these links.  A comment by Cathy from the last link sums up my feelings:
Quote
...I hope these Chapter Leaders use their excellent minds to fully exercise their right to freedom of speech, their right to dissent and call their leader to the carpet if needed.

Perhaps the new qualification for a chapter leader will require a lobotomy. That way, they will be very tractable little sheeple.

I know a couple of these folks and they are not at all the sheeple type. These chapter leaders are amazing, generous, hard-working, free-thinking women and men who VOLUNTEER countless hours to teach and connect people with good sources of food. They are leaders in their communities. David, I hope they use your blog as a safe way to share their thoughts, pro or con.

And, ahem, Sally, .why are you still saying bad things about Dr. Daniel? If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all, or you will be disinvited from your own conference and exhibit hall.


Oh, and in case y'all missed it.  Here is the bashing of Paleo by WAPF.  Total duh on SFM to limit Paleo eating by one author's description.  I think it was circa 2007 when she started legally going after websites using the WAPF logo and such.  At that time I ran a volunteer site for the local N TX chapters.  Well, I got out of that business in a hurry and set up the site as a local resource that pays some homage to Price, but without any reference to WAPF.  I mean, fuck that noise of being told what I can say and do.  She has gotten way worse than she ever was.  She should step down and let someone else lead.  Otherwise it is going to look more and more like a religious organization.  And sorry, but those of us trying to make a living peddling health really do need to look healthy.  She has probably gained 50 pounds since she wrote NT and does not seem to have glowing health.  It may not be fair, but we in the nutrition and/or fitness industry are judged on looks to some extent.  And she has written weight loss books, so, yanno...


Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,515
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #69 on: September 15, 2015, 04:46:59 am »
A good point about her weight. She's probably gotten too busy to focus on eating healthy these days. People will judge her message about diet by how she looks, though, and will not take into account how busy and stressed she may be.

And I agree, the last thing she needs to do is to make herself into some sort of guru whose dogma cannot be questioned. That's laughable...she is no pioneer. She is no researcher. Pride goes before a fall, and this is looking like the season she may Fall.

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,746
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #70 on: September 15, 2015, 05:04:09 am »
I'm not happy at all. Yes, I know the gurus all have their many faults, and power corrupts etc.,  BUT BUT BUT without these gurus, most of us would have gotten nowhere near diet. Take my own example:-  well over a decade ago, I had tried virtually every diet other than Breatharianism, to try to solve my  godawful health problems, and wanted to try a raw-meat diet  as an absolute last resort, but was deathly afraid of doing such; so I searched online for  10 hours a day, 6 days a week, for some months,  in order to find just 1 raw-meat-diet guru so that I could get enough courage to try such a diet(and also thereby find out what pitfalls existed in such a diet). I duly found out about Aajonus after lengthy internet searching(I had not even heard about google at the time) and was able to discover a few health-benefits for a very few months before I went into my raw-dairy phase and started suffering again. My point is that most of us simply do not have the balls or the  initiative to find out what works for us as individuals, and so most of us  need to have access to lots of different diet-gurus and acquaintances in order to find out what specifically works for us as individuals.

Plus, we all need our gods and prophets. Dr Price is long dead, we need more current ones as well.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline Satya

  • Trapper
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #71 on: September 15, 2015, 05:13:38 am »
Yes, I think it's important to learn from those who have figured some of this stuff out.  But I like to think of such people as more of a mentor.  Once they become too powerful or subdue dissent and questioning, then it is an unhealthy relationship...or rather it can lead to that.  That's why I prefer forums like these to more hierarchical organizations.  And traditional peoples were more egalitarian anyway, right?  Hierarchies are for Neolithic types.

Hey, am I the last person to know AV died a couple years ago?  Too bad on having such a seemingly painful death falling. 

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,746
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2015, 05:19:59 am »
Yes, I knew re AV dying, as of ages ago. But, quite frankly, if, ages ago,  I have never gotten to know about him online, I would have instead tried a raw-meat-and-raw-vegetable/raw fruit diet. I would have failed miserably healthwise since all the meat I would have eaten at the time  would have been 100% grainfed meat, however raw.

Palaeolithic-era tribes would never have been egalitarian. They had their tribal leaders, tribal shamans, deputies thereof, wise old women(re herb-gatherers etc.), top hunters and so on and on.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,515
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2015, 06:57:11 am »
Not to derail the thread, but traditional tribes vary quite a bit in their degree of power differential between people. In general, though, there's not NEARLY the degree of economic/political imbalance that you see in large modern societies. But most of those societies have their own failings, just not in the area of nutrition, posture, etc..

Offline lb_on_the_cb

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2015, 05:29:34 am »
Chris Kresser has a column on it here:

hxxp://chriskresser.com/important-update-on-cod-liver-oil/      (sorry, wont let me post direct link i guess)

differing opinions

also 376 comments