Author Topic: Milk and Natural Selection  (Read 4581 times)

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Offline Fermenter Zym

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Milk and Natural Selection
« on: January 30, 2011, 03:12:03 am »
I have read on this forum many-a-times (even though I registered a day ago) that humans did not evolve to drink milk. However, I read an article I wanted to share that points to the fact that maybe, in fact, they did.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11261-early-europeans-unable-to-stomach-milk.html

Coupled with information about the Raw Milk Cure ( http://www.realmilk.com/milkcure.html ) and other people getting over chronic disease with raw milk, I often wonder why people are so against milk on this forum.

.zym.



Offline kurite

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Re: Milk and Natural Selection
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2011, 06:38:45 am »
I didn't read the articles because I have read plenty of raw milk articles before I knew about paleo and still used it as an option. First off as far as science knows there has only be one gene that has changed for the use of drinking milk and that is the continued production of lactase (the lactose digesting enzyme). While yes this means we are slightly adjusted to it there are still billions of people who don't have the gene for continued digestion of lactose.

It helps SADers because compared to the crap they eat and drink, any RAF is a huge leap up in terms of food quality. Any RAF fat is going to help even fat from non-optimal RAF foods.
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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Milk and Natural Selection
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2011, 06:42:31 am »
The reason why people here are so against raw milk is precisely because raw milk is THE biggest health-problem on a RVAF diet. Raw dairy is also notorious also for causing unnecessary weight-gain unlike other raw foods.

The claim that Northern Europeans are mostly immune to raw dairy is highly suspect, IMO, as I know rather a lot of people of that ethnicity who have some form of problem with dairy - that 5 percent figure usually given for Northern Europeans is too low to be believable. Then there's the 75 percent of the whole world's population who are lactose-intolerant etc.

I concede that some RVAFers have done well on raw dairy and even cured some health-problems, but for most RVAFers raw dairy causes endless health-problems due to maladaptation. Plus, because so many people who go for RVAF diets have incurred serious health-problems beforehand, it is often quite common that they have developed further food-intolerances to foods like raw dairy, due to leaky guts/faulty digestive systems etc.
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Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Milk and Natural Selection
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2011, 07:35:40 am »
Milk has done great things for me. Try it see how it works for you and then decide.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline kurite

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Re: Milk and Natural Selection
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2011, 10:00:20 am »
Milk has done great things for me. Try it see how it works for you and then decide.
I agree with ForTheHunt, if it works for you then use it, otherwise don't. Theres no rules for optimizing your diet for you specifically.
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Offline Fermenter Zym

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Re: Milk and Natural Selection
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2011, 12:12:40 am »
I agree that each person should find the diet that works best for them. I however, believe that those who are vehemently against dairy should also take into account that, due to poor nutrition of our recent ancestors, many of us do not have the microflora or the healthy gut lining to digest milk protein or lactose -- yet this doesn't mean that one's gut cannot recover.

Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride, Neurologist and Nutritionist, has been treating children with autism with a Weston Price diet called the GAPS Diet or the Gut and Psychology Syndrome Diet and has had great success. She makes sure not give raw milk first, but instead recommends fermented raw dairy like kefir and yoghurt. This insures that the body is provided with the bacteria needed to digest lactose. In addition, her treatment is all about healing the gut, which in her belief is the cause of many psychiatric, behavioral, and learning disorders.

For children and adults without proper intestinal microflora digesting their food and permeable intestinal linings allowing proteins to escape into the blood, modern foods can be hazardous. Hence the onslaught of deadly allergies, gluten intolerance, and in my opinion, milk sensitivity.

Mother's breast milk plays an important role of transferring probiotic bacteria to a child, but if the mother does not have this bacteria, she does not have anything to give. What you are left with is babies (and later teenagers and adults -- myself included) with digestive disorders due to a sterile intestinal ecology. And then all too often, doctors give these children antibiotics, further worsening the problem. And of course, the same thing can occur to children who are not breast-fed and not supplemented with probiotic bacteria.

Another thought I have about dairy is the Gerson Cancer Therapy and the Raw Milk Cure. A quick google search for either of these will provide a wealth of information for treating chronic disease with raw dairy. Raw Milk Kefir in the case of Gerson's cancer therapy and simple Raw Milk for Tuberculosis and other diseases was found to be effective in many cases. In fact, to my understanding the Mayo Clinic was founded to give the Raw Milk Cure.

All in all, if dairy doesn't work for you, then definitely avoid it, but that doesn't mean that some people don't thrive on it. The two tribes in Weston Price's research seemed to, as well those tribes of the Caucasus Mountains who drank large quantities of Milk Kefir daily.


Online TylerDurden

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Re: Milk and Natural Selection
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2011, 02:07:09 am »
Weston-Price's claims are dubious and not supported by others' evidence.

As for the notion of raw dairy helping people to resolve problems, I have no doubt that that can happen. After all, raw dairy has the advantage of being raw, unlike most foods eaten by humans nowadays, and a few people are better adapted to it than the rest.  The claim re fermenting dairy making it easier to digest is rather meaningless - sure, any kind of fermentation will make pretty much any toxic food more digestible than before, but that does not make it a healthy food. RVAFers still consume raw dairy and build up sufficient bacteria-levels and healthy gut-lining but then still get problems from the stuff. More to the point, precisely because people who come to RVAF diets usually are already very ill, with compromised digestive systems/increased rates of allergies etc., it is extremely unwise to recommend raw dairy to most such newbies until they have fully recovered their health. 
"“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell "“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Milk and Natural Selection
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2011, 02:15:24 am »
After my initial raw vegan diet raw milk felt like heaven...

To make a long story as short as possible:

Raw dairy is PURE HELL for my body.

I will never touch it in this life again. For me it's a drug with exceptionally nasty side effects.

Löwenherz

Offline Fermenter Zym

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Re: Milk and Natural Selection
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2011, 02:31:55 am »
I agree Tyler, the nutritional program that I follow loosely -- the GAPS Diet --introduces fermented dairy very very slowly and expects one to follow the diet for at least two years before trying foods not on the diet. Unfermented raw milk is not on the diet.

I am not pushing raw dairy, I just believe that people should leave their options open in this forum. I've only been here a few days and all too often people are telling others what they are definitely NOT to do. I support giving advice and life experience, but there is not one proper way to live, nor one proper way to eat. Information should be shared with respect and compassion.