Author Topic: Raw Food and Bone Broth  (Read 14670 times)

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Offline Fermenter Zym

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Raw Food and Bone Broth
« on: October 31, 2011, 02:14:47 am »
I was first introduced to raw food through the Weston Price Foundation, although they ironically do not push raw foods (besides dairy) much because they do not wish to alienate the American people from their theory of high fat, animal foods being key for vibrant health.

Upon reading a lot of WP's research over the past year or two, I've found that Bone Broths are really only necessary when you eat cooked food. Pottenger showed in some studies that the hydrophilic nature of gelatin in broths attacts digestive enzymes to cooked food, which are normally hydrophobic. Pottenger pointed out if you eat raw foods, you do not need bone broth or gelatin because the enzyme content is so high and the foods are already hydrophilic on their own. Case in point, the Inuit were one of the only cultures WP studied that ate all raw, and despite being in the arctic regions of Canada (where a warm broth would think broth would be welcomed), they forwent it entirely -- because they simply didn't need it nutritionally.

I personally enjoy bone broth and still eat cooked foods for social situations so for now I'm going to mix as many of my cooked foods as I can with a reduced broth stock (read about reduction sauces here: http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/broth-is-beautiful ) to obtain the benefits of gelatin. I also always start a cooked meal with a raw fermented vegetable to prepare my digestive system.

Despite being cooked, Bone Broth feels nourishing, don't you think? Nothing beats a good soup in the winter.

Zym.



Offline Inger

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 04:19:11 am »
I personally get headaches from broth. I tried it twice. Both times headache. So no more broth for me. ;)
I do eat almost 100% raw though. But I do tolerate shortly cooked stuff quite well otherwise, strangely.

Inger

Offline Fermenter Zym

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 04:27:15 am »
Do you eat dairy for calcium or do you find eating all raw you don't need as much Calcium, Inger?

Offline Inger

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 04:53:18 am »
I do not eat dairy for calcium. I eat it occasionally but I do not feel optimal from it though. I eat wild greens. I believe they are good for calcium? I have no idea though..

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Offline Fermenter Zym

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2011, 05:31:44 am »
Not sure if it's really bioavailable from greens, but maybe. I would bet some wild greens like dandelion would be a good source, but I've never done the research.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 05:51:51 am »
Not sure if it's really bioavailable from greens, but maybe. I would bet some wild greens like dandelion would be a good source, but I've never done the research.
The Bantu get most of their calcium from their vegetables. One doesn't need much calcium to get good bones.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline Fermenter Zym

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 06:12:30 am »
The Bantu get most of their calcium from their vegetables. One doesn't need much calcium to get good bones.

Very cool, Tyler. I didn't know that.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2011, 06:18:01 am »
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2011, 03:23:58 am »
I have had several excellent doctors inform me that most diets are not deficient in calcium but rather, they are highly deficient in the minerals and vitamin k that allow calcium to be absorbed.

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2011, 10:10:46 am »
I always heard that the vitamins in most greens are hard for us to assimilate, unless the greens are at least somewhat cooked.  Also, that the vitamins are much better absorbed if the greens are eaten with a fat.  Can someone comment on why that is true/untrue?
Thanks!
~Sile

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2011, 12:03:52 pm »
I always heard that the vitamins in most greens are hard for us to assimilate, unless the greens are at least somewhat cooked.  Also, that the vitamins are much better absorbed if the greens are eaten with a fat.  Can someone comment on why that is true/untrue?
Thanks!
~Sile

I don't eat greens very often.  Cooking them does make them more digestible, but it also creates toxins as well, so it's a tradeoff.

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2011, 12:21:12 pm »
Thanks for your reply!
Are there other plant foods that are more easily digested without being cooked?
What kinds of toxins are produced when plants are cooked?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2011, 03:45:42 pm »
Toxins include advanced glycation end products, which are linked to increased rates of aging.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2011, 05:27:37 am »
Thanks for your reply!
Are there other plant foods that are more easily digested without being cooked?


Fruits are usually the easiest to digest.

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2011, 05:45:47 am »
Thanks; that does make sense.  : )

So, back on the topic of bone broth (sorry for getting OT, there!), do you think it is beneficial perhaps more so in the early stages of starting a raw diet (as well as being eaten in conjunction with cooked foods, as was mentioned before), when more nourishment is needed for healing?  I have been eating a lot of bone broth lately, and it really feels good for my body.  What do you all think?  I'd really like to be able to keep eating it!
Would it be better to eat it at seperate times than when I'm eating raw meat, though?

Offline raw

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2011, 07:15:17 am »
bone broth...hmmm! cooking in low heat for a longer period of times? still it could be toxic, using toxic gas to cook.

to obtain a good source of calcium, try wild greens, fresh raw juice.
bugs or country chickens

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2011, 08:17:59 am »
What do you mean by toxic gas?
As far as I know, cooking something in a liquid, at a low heat, for a longer period of time is better than cooking something at a higher heat for short time (like frying), correct?
Sorry for all the newbie questions! : )

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2011, 12:06:31 pm »
I would eat the marrow separately.  Marrow should be eaten raw, IMO. Heating the bones at maybe 120 F for an hour or two will probably not cause any major toxic stuff to form.  I don't really recommend it, I think you'd be better off using a file to grind it down, and then eating the ground bone, but I don't think it will do major harm.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2011, 04:27:28 pm »
Bone-broths are a waste of time, as one can easily get all the nutrients one needs from eating raw foods. Bone-broths are possibly useful when eating deficient, cooked diets full of grains and other rubbish(such as the Weston-Price Diet) but should otherwise be avoided. Also, they interfere with raw foods' digestion if eaten together, plus the body will need a bit of time to deal with the toxins from the cooked bone-broth rather than healing the body.

Cooking in moisture is "less worse" than other forms of cooking. It is true that cooking at lower temperatures for longer periods is better than cooking  at higher temperatures for short periods.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2011, 12:45:17 am »
Tyler--do you have any links to articles or studies etc... that talk about why it is easier to get nutrients and easier to digest raw foods?  I've been looking around here, but I'm guessing you'd be able to locate these things a lot quicker than me!
Something I am specifically looking for is an explanation that refutes the theory that all of the enzymes and stuff that  make raw food more digestible/easier to get nutrients from are all destroyed in the HCL of the stomach, which is a form of "cooking" anyway.  And also, that we've been cooking foods for long enough to be evolved to eat them, and that they are the reason we were able to get enough nourishment to grow bigger brains.
Sorry, I would just keep searching around here, but I just don't have time today.  I did read the article posted on the thread for newbies, but I am wondering if there are other ones too?
Thanks!!

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2011, 03:35:02 am »
zillions others.....

Here are 2 articles demonstrating why the notion that cooking led to bigger brains is dead wrong, and why it might have led to smaller brains in the end....:-
http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/when-did-humans-begin-to-cook/

http://old.rawpaleodiet.com/non-wrangham-theories-of-cooking-debunked/

The Sally Fallon enzymes article explains why enzymes in raw foods are so essentially needed etc.:-

http://www.realmilk.com/enzyme.html

Only enzymes get destroyed, and then only in the lower stomach. Bacteria  (mostly) get destroyed after digestion, but not wholly, which is why gut-bacteria are so essential for eventual digestion. "High-meat", being more bacteria-rich than fresh, raw meats, is best for adding bacteria to the digestive tract.

More studies on why raw foods are easier to digest than cooked foods etc.:-

Losses of nutrients caused by cooking:-

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O39-cookinglossofnutrients.html

http://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/processing

Info on negative effects of cooking on raw meat re reduction in digestion etc.:-

"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1897402

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/food.19870311007/abstract;jsessionid=C4D468D92AFC1F95D1C9221E3BBBED3F.d01t04

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/food.19870311007/abstract

The HCL in the stomach has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the processes of cooking. This notion is ridiculous. Perhaps Iguana can provide the relevant data as to why this HCL/Cooking theory is so laughable:-

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.""The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.""A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."" The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap."Ayn Rand

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2011, 05:44:10 am »
Thanks for posting all those links for me Tyler, you rock!! <3
I'll definitely be spending some time going through them all.  I really want to get my husband on board with this (as well as understand the science behind it myself) and he is only convinced by logic.  Me, I'm more 50% logic and 50% go-with-my-gut-feelings.
I do hope Iguana chimes in! : )

Offline letsdoiteczema

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2012, 09:11:17 pm »
TylerDurden, your post is so so so useful. I eat 4-5 pieces of grass-fed beef bone marrow every day now, and I hate to just toss it into the trash, and been looking at trying bone broth.

From your info, I've decided that it is better to waste the marrow-less bones than to introduce cooked toxins into my body through bone broth. I've tried it a couple of times and it has felt harder to digest than raw meat/marrow etc. obviously I guess...haha I wish I had dogs though, so the bones wouldn't be such a waste. Here in Hong Kong, grass-fed meat/bones are so expensive.

1kg of grassfed bones is $100 HKD = $12.8934 USD

Thanks again.
Wishing everyone the best in health and happiness! much love to all!

My severe suicidal eczema healing blog: http://eczemabye.weebly.com/

Offline aginghippie

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 10:14:05 am »

Offline mors

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Re: Raw Food and Bone Broth
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2014, 01:34:09 am »
I've been on the GAPS diet for over 6 months, eating meat and bone broths almost every day. It did make my nails very strong for the first time in my life. So I guess it was good for me..

But I am so happy that I don't have to cook it anymore since I'm on the raw diet now!