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Health / Re: Parasites?
« Last post by cherimoya_kid on Today at 01:14:47 am »
Tyler- I have perused through various Curezone forums and found the Hulda Clark forums to be full of seemingly hysterical people. I never cared for the woman because she advocated some risky/worthless measures and died of cancer herself. "The proof is in the pudding" or something like that haha.

On that note, I do believe that most people have some degree of parasites in them that they are completely unaware of. I plan to do an herbal cleanse and post-cleanse believe that populating the gut with healthy bacteria (high meat, sauerkraut, etc.) will provide a healthy environment that will discourage future infestations. I just found it interesting that they seem to be more active on raw and was wondering if it was a die-off reaction possibly....

If by some chance you HAD them, they would be more active on raw because you would be feeding them a better-quality diet.
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Health / Re: Parasites?
« Last post by HoneyBadger on Today at 12:55:50 am »
Tyler- I have perused through various Curezone forums and found the Hulda Clark forums to be full of seemingly hysterical people. I never cared for the woman because she advocated some risky/worthless measures and died of cancer herself. "The proof is in the pudding" or something like that haha.

On that note, I do believe that most people have some degree of parasites in them that they are completely unaware of. I plan to do an herbal cleanse and post-cleanse believe that populating the gut with healthy bacteria (high meat, sauerkraut, etc.) will provide a healthy environment that will discourage future infestations. I just found it interesting that they seem to be more active on raw and was wondering if it was a die-off reaction possibly....
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General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« Last post by cherimoya_kid on Yesterday at 10:18:55 pm »
Damn. You boys know your grass and grazing.
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Health / Re: Parasites?
« Last post by TylerDurden on Yesterday at 09:55:36 pm »
Look, I used to believe that the whole parasites concepts were a myth, yet after 10 years of going rawpalaeo, I duly once got a lot of tapeworms.There were no wriggling motions. I just, most unusually,  felt an appalling pain in my bladder for 2-3 days, nothing more.  All I had to do, after 3 more months,  was to go to a doctor and get a  prescription and then go to a local pharmacy and get a potion which easily got rid of them. All I had to do in the meantime was to avoid drinking alcohol, not too difficult a thing, really..... Perhaps the reason why CK is upset over this is because there is a small, overly hysterical subsection of RVAFers who blindly follow Hulda Clark's insane notions that parasites are everywhere in everything.What I mean is, don't worry, if there are any parasites, if any,  see a doctor, then get a prescription for the relevant anti-parasite medicine and you will be fine.

The main point is that getting real, actual parasites is very, very rare indeed among RVAFers.And if  it ever does happen, it is almost always benign in nature(except for  very rare individuals like myself). The main reason for this is that farmers, even organic farmers, routinely give their farm-animals various deworming/anti-parasite medications which get rid of such parasites well before slaughter. That is why parasite-epidemics are virtually unknown in the West, yet appear every now and then in tropical, non-Western countries like Vietnam.
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TylerDurden: Thanks for the links! I'll be sure to check them out! I'm looking forward to making high meat actually...that's the next step in my journey for sure! Can I make liver high meat? The liver I have is pretty bloody so I'm worried about it becoming too soupy. Can one make liver high meat without it getting too soupy?
All depends on the individual. I myself could only handle the taste of  "high-meat" in the form of raw, aged tongue or raw, aged heart. Raw aged, muscle-meat etc. just made me puke. Maybe, though, you may love raw liver high-meat - who knows? raw liver high-meat tends to be a liquid soup, just so you know...
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Health / Re: Parasites?
« Last post by HoneyBadger on Yesterday at 09:23:38 pm »
I know that some of you are saying that parasites are difficult to actually feel but I am incredibly in tune with my body. Almost to a point where it's uncomfortable because I can literally feel nutrients being assimilated and used for repair and can feel my food as it goes through different stages of digestion, etc. I know it almost sounds as Sci-Fi in nature but I assure, I can feel them in there and I know I have them. I know I got them eating SAD because I was having to take some antibiotics among other drugs and I believe they are attracted to/feed off of an unhealthy body that is overburdened by drugs. I am of the camp that believes parasites can be beneficial but I also believe that they can get out of hand. I also think they could be causing some of my digestive issues.

Cherimoya-Kid: "Vegan Troll"? Lol...hardly. I understand you guys probably get a fair amount of them here but I am not a troll just because my beliefs aren't quite in line with yours that all parasites are inherently beneficial.
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General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« Last post by RogueFarmer on Yesterday at 02:41:18 pm »
Wheat grass is usually a sham. Wheat grass to be truly high quality, must have 1 leaf per grass plant. As soon as the wheat plant makes a second leaf, the nutrition drops off incredibly.

Sabertooth, if you want your holy grail of forage, the best soils in America if properly minerally balanced can produce oat grass with blades 14 inches or more, single blades that are the most nutritious food ever recorded growing on land supposedly.

Another really good thing is Eastern Gamma grass which is basically perennial native corn that produces epic amounts of superior quality summer forage, is flood resistant and if properly managed can live for over a thousand years.

I am really interested in this website. I want to compile a seed mixture to plant native flowers and herbs and whatever I can add to quality pasture seed mixes.

http://www.edenbrothers.com/
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General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« Last post by RogueFarmer on Yesterday at 02:35:25 pm »
I live in Southern Oregon and I am doing some amount of farming.

Sabertooth, I am not at all trying to say fescue hay is ever suitable feed however in certain growing conditions even kentucky 51 endophyte fescue can be pretty much the best perennial forage that is actually still green in most of the United States. Now if you are planting pastures, you could instead use meadow fescue which is more palatable and does not have endophyte as well as endophyte free fescue and even "friendly" endophyte fescue which has a special endophyte which does not produce the toxins associated with regular endophyte Kentucky 51 tall fescue. As far as I know there are few other perennials that can replace fescue in quality for a winter forage in the midwestern united states. In order to do better I know of two ways, one would be to plant a crop of winter rye, winter wheat or triticale for winter grazing which produces some of the most nutritious grass possible on earth and two to have some kind of a grazing vineyard of honey suckle, which retains it's leaves and protein content long into the winter.

Bison are adapted to eat native stockpiled forages. Buffalo grass, big and little blue stem, indian grass and switch grass all make excellent winter feed for bison but are inedible to cattle after they grow too tall and throughout the winter. As well, bison's metabolism in winter slows down more than cattle, deer and elk, even more so, lessening their dietary requirements to make it through harsh winters. This is the biggest advantage of native livestock in the Americas.

It is extremely difficult to displace fescue once it is there. It is basically the hardiest cool season grass because of the symbiotic endophyte and because of it's spreading and crowning root system it is difficult and sometimes impossible to eradicate without use of harmful chemicals or great effort in machinery and cover cropping. Using Holisitc Management, fescue can literally be clobbered so hard by cattle hooves and manure that diversity is naturally forced onto fescue pastures. It is possible with one heavy grazing to increase biodiversity many times over. Fescue toxicity stops being recognizable after fescue is reduced to a smaller proportion of fescue domination. Traditional grazing as well as MIG encourages fescue. Fescue LOVES MIG, if you use MIG in the fescue belt of the midwest and southern united states I bet you will end up with a field of at least 90% fescue in less than ten years. Using HM, native grasses are able to compete against fescue and start to naturally establish themselves, the seeds somehow brought in by birds or stored in the ground, waiting for the right conditions.

You can base your beef farm off of fescue pastures, but that doesn't mean your finished product has to ever have personally eaten any fescue. How much will feeding a beef cow fescue harm her calf if her calf only ever eats improved pastures lacking in fescue?

I think it's important to remember why we grew beef cattle in the first place. Beef cattle are probably the most or second or third most economical source of meat on the planet. A beef cow can live off pasture that would starve all but the hardiest animals. A beef cow can survive and raise a calf where little else can be grown. Over 70% of beef cattle are in the tropics or sub tropics where grass grows incredibly lush but low in nutrition. There are parts of Africa where most livestock and humans die within months of living there in the wrong season due to a particular species of fly, but native cows can survive there.

I think there is good beef grown on fescue pastures. I raised my livestock for 2 years on fescue based pastures, their meat and milk was incredibly delicious, my cow in August in the middle of a drought was in better condition than most of the jerseys I visited that year at the Ohio State Fair.

I also fed my livestock kelp and they ate a lot of other things besides fescue.

I did feed my livestock fescue hay one year because it was almost impossible to find hay that year and I will tell you I will never do that again however, that year I also managed to only feed hay for a month and three weeks and my jersey cows grazed and dug through snow and grazed all winter long that year.

I think what eric said about high sugar and protein forages being lower in overall nutrition. Now those crops can be extremely nutritious in ideal conditions however, if conditions are not ideal those crops will be inferior quality. A better solution to building a better diet would then be to plant a higher diversity instead of trying to rely on a few high yielding and superior nutrition forages. What people forget is that these "superior nutrition forages" generally can only match but not surpass many of the "weeds" growing in their pastures in nutritional quality. However there are some super nutritious crops that have ludicrous quantities of sugar, protein and minerals. Most of them are weeds and as I am trying to explain, many that have excellent soil requirements, so often fail to meet expectations.

I think there are farms that produce good quality beef on fescue pastures, but perhaps you wouldn't like their quality either, you should try Polyface beef and Green Pastures farm and see how their beef tastes if you can.

You should also probably go to NZ because their whole beef production model is basically grass fed beef fed so well that the meat is so tender you can cut it with a butter knife.

I think the best compromise would be to buy a really quality piece of land, raise the best economic beef business you can that earns you money, which will also allow you to feast on your retired bulls and cull cows.

I have mostly heard 4 different influences on flavor and eating quality of beef. 1 the faster the animal is growing the more tender the meat will be and as soon as growth slows toughness onsets. 2 a mixture of forages is important for a balanced fatty acid profile and improved flavor and forage quality throughout the grazing life of the animal. 3 the way the animal is killed and the way the meat is stored and preserved after slaughter 4 the older an animal is the more flavor it has. The best tasting beef according to the editor of the stockman grass farmer was from a 20 year old cow. this is my experience as well, the best hamburger I ever ate was from my friends beef farm (which happens to be fescue based) from his 20 or 30 year old cull cows!

Finally, you may find this hard to believe but before he died, Bob Evans had a 2000 acre permaculture farm. Yes Bob Evans from the restaurant chain that serves breakfast foods and sells sausage! He was even quoted to say that if had learned about managed grazing when he was younger he never would have gotten into the sausage business!

Bob Evans managed to graze his cattle in Rio Grande Ohio all but 2 days out of the year. He was working on a system to utilize honey suckle for winter pasture when he died.
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Welcoming Committee / Re: New to the primal diet and have some questions!
« Last post by eveheart on Yesterday at 10:21:24 am »
The weight-gain process is complex, but ingested fat has relatively no involvement. Ingested carbohydrates are the fat-storage trigger because insulin is the body's fat-storage hormone.
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Health / Re: Parasites?
« Last post by eveheart on Yesterday at 10:10:56 am »
Intestinal parasites don't wiggle around a lot so that you feel them. As Dario explained, they live where they are useful in your body. If they are in your intestines, they lay eggs, hatch, live, and die where they find the kind of "food" that they like to ingest.

If you want to brag that you actually had this or that parasite, go get a microscopic identification of your species. If you don't want a diagnosis, you can consider one of your broad-spectrum vermifuges and see if you feel much better afterwards.

That's a waste of time, though, if you don't address the cause of parasites. So, don't forget to heal your leaky gut, if that's the problem that the parasites are attracted to. (Visualize parasites increasing their population to thrive on the undigested food molecules that cause leaky gut. If you kill the parasites, more of the undigested food gets into your bloodstream... until the parasites repopulate to enjoy their feast. They'll only go away if you stop feeding them.)

My philosophy has been to eat clean, pure, unprocessed food and let my own body determine what "clean" means. I prefer this approach because, in the final analysis, I want to maintain my health effortlessly and cheaply. I hated the years of tiring and costly searches for something that would make me feel better. Build a good foundation with diet and you won't find yourself searching anymore.
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