Author Topic: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure  (Read 6718 times)

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Offline pinktruffle

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22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« on: January 14, 2016, 09:07:55 am »
Hello, I've researched and done many diets in general and when I came across Zero Carb it made a lot of sense to me. I have been doing this diet for 2 weeks now and although I don't know my baseline blood pressure before this diet as I never bothered to check. I have checked it consistently since starting and it is anywhere between systolic 138-160 and diastolic 50-80. I feel fantastic in most ways but I am started to get really scared in relation to my blood pressure I've ordered a glucose meter so I can start checking my blood sugar levels (I'm worried I might be diabetic and I just never noticed). I'm hoping someone will have an idea of what's going on. I've been eating primarily Beef some eggs, raw milk, butter, raw sharp cheddar cheese, and lamb. starting today though I've gone to only beef and water and suet if I need fat because I was thinking the blood pressure thing might have to do with an allergy. Some extra information I am 6'1 22 years old 195 pounds 11-13% bodyfat and I exercise 4-7 times a week.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 10:36:04 am »
Not everyone is going to do well on zero carb or very low-carb over the long run. How long have you been doing very low-carb or ZC?

Offline pinktruffle

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 10:39:21 am »
20 days so far

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 11:11:22 am »
Let us know how the blood sugar goes. It's extremely unlikely that you'll show high sugar on such a low carb diet, but it can't hurt to check it.

One of our former low-carbers here, PaleoPhil, would probably recommend you try some resistant starch. He swears by it. Do a forum search with resistant starch as the keywords if you want to learn more.

Offline pinktruffle

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 11:34:28 am »
ok I'll post my blood sugar tomorrow when I get the meter, I'll look up the resistant starches.

Offline eveheart

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 01:07:45 pm »
I have great results with low carb, but never zero carb. My main reason to limit carbs is to reverse diabetes, which I've done with the guidance of Dr. Bernstein's book, The Diabetes Solution. My carbs come from fermented green leafy vegetables and fresh vegetables in season. I learned my correct carb level per meal using a blood glucose meter. If you do have blood sugar issues, Dr. Bernstein's book tells you what might work. I experiment a lot on myself, and my medical doctor is fascinated with what I've accomplished, so she helps by ordering the blood tests I want a few times per year.

I'm not a bodybuilder, but I know quite a few. The ones who go ketogenic eat some carbs, typically 5% of total calories. Then they set their protein level based on their needs. Finally, they get all the rest of the calories from fat. The bodybuilders I talk to only cycle through ketosis for a few weeks to attain ultra-low body-fat percentages, alternating ketosis with carb loading when they are actively building. The one guy I know really well is in carb-craving agony every minute of being in ketosis. That might be a mental or a physical craving, I don't know. As for me, I never crave carbs, and i never "cheat" for any reason.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 06:37:49 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 12:55:18 pm »
In recent years I've seen more and more VLCers report problems and witnessed a dramatic dropoff of interest in VLC. As just one small example, I think Cheri recently shared that none of the current moderators are low carb.

I see resistant starch as probably one piece of a much larger puzzle (of which energy dissipation appears to be a huge factor) and maybe a potential tool to help some people improve their tolerance of whole carby foods. Serious intolerance of carbs is not a natural human state, so it's probably diagnostic of underlying problems in most cases.

The use of raw powdered sources of RS is relatively new, so I advised caution and my own goal is to try to get as much RS and other prebiotics from whole food sources as possible (which inevitably means eating more carbs than in my VLC past) and that I can handle relatively well (which involves a balancing act). There are some reported potential problems from overdoing it on resistant starch, as with anything, such as in what I shared here:

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/fantastic-health-benefits-of-butyrate-6649/msg133348/#msg133348

Raw potato starch is the most popular concentrated source of resistant starch, because it's cheap, convenient and simple, and thus it got most of the attention, especially in the early days of RS exploration, and I tried it for a while with some interesting benefits, but I'm not much of a fan of commercial brands, as I suspect they may contain large-particle starch, which raises the spectre of the persorption issue that Ray Peat discussed years ago http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/10/22/3169. It may be possible to get around that issue by using only other sources of RS or making one's own potato starch from small, young potatoes which presumably have mostly relatively small starch particles. Perhaps using small-particle sources of resistant starch is a sort of win-win solution, though much more research is needed.

As I often say, don't do something just because I or another forum member or gurus do it. Research, investigate and find what works best for you. Good luck!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 01:02:30 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2016, 07:16:57 pm »
Good find on persorption, Phil.

Offline pinktruffle

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2016, 10:56:25 am »
Hey guys so here's the update my glucose levels are totally normal even after eating the highest they seemed to spike was in the 90's. I've decided to take a very hands-off approach to dieting since I feel that I've gotten too caught up in the particulars of things. it turns out that the blood pressure thing was because my roommates cuff was too small for my arm :P (sometimes being a bodybuilder can put us outside the average). I've decided to try some resistant starches, play around with ketosis and maybe dip in and out of zero carbs here and there to reset my body every now and then. I plan to use a very bodybuilder mindset in relation to diet and use taste, and my cumulative knowledge of nutrition to play with. The things that I would like to impart onto everyone though that I think are the pillars of a good healthy way of eating are 1. no processed junk 2. limit refined sugar 3. high-fat diets are much better and more natural to humans 4. Variety 5. taste despite being something that pulls you towards junkie foods can be an invaluable tool in assessing what your body needs (you have too of course, maintain a reasonable level of skepticism, meaning if your bodies telling you to eat cookies that probably isn't something your body NEEDS its something it WANTS.) I'm pretty young so you can take all of this with a grain of salt, but I do study anthropology in school, I have been doing physical fitness and nutrition stuff for 6 years and I've tried a wide variety of ways of eating. The most important thing to understand is that every single person is unique and can thrive on different things. I'm sure there is an optimum "Diet outline" out there but it definitely needs to be tinkered a little bit for every person depending on their unique genetics, and environmental factors. If I were to take a shot at what those "optimum outlines" would be iI would say Lots on animal protein (From a variety of sources, especially marine life), a minimization of insulin response, promoting good gut health, using all three of your sources of energy (Sugar, Fat, Ketones) and the two last most important things are MODERATION and exercise. In relation to exercise you've got to do it guys its one of the most important ways of teaching your body to deal with everything. If you have a strong body then your body will be able to fight disease, inflammation, overstimulation much better then if it is not physically fit. We were meant to move as a species run, hike, swim, lift weights, rock climb, dance, martial arts just find something that is FUN. I also wanted to thank you guys especially Paleophil, Lex, all the testimonials, and everyone else who has posted valuable information, all your collective experiences help me to get a better understanding of my own.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2016, 07:33:43 pm »
I would remember to not overtax your adrenals from exercise. I have "hit the wall" from working too hard before. Remember also these are the joints you will have for the rest of your life, don't trash them now, especially your knees. There are a lot of former athletes walking around in pain.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2016, 09:33:31 pm »
Just one thing, I as a GM, may no longer be RVLC but this has nothing to do with my health. In social settings, nowadays,  I find it impossible to avoid eating some level of carbs as the alternatives are even worse. I do therefore want to make it clear that RVLC is perfectly healthy - I did it for many years in the past and did fine on it.
"If it is right for me, it is right. It is possible that it is wrong for others: let them take care of themselves"
"Whoso is full of sacred (religious, moral, humane) love loves only the spook, the "true man," and persecutes with dull mercilessness the individual, the real man." Max Stirner

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2016, 01:17:48 am »
Good to hear, pinktruffle. Good luck.

LC gurus tell us to check our blood glucose, but they don't tell us about some other health markers, signs and symptoms that some LCers have been sharing suboptimal reports on, such as one or more of high anion gap (usually with a low CO2 component, as measured via serum bicarbonate), elevated BUN, very acidic urine, low body temperature (with a common early sign being cold hands or feet), low pulse, low WBC count, poor dream recall, waking during the night, muscle twitches, cramps or tetany, chronic constipation or IBS, reduced athletic/work performance (especially with strenuous burst-like tasks like sprinting), skin rashes, sniffles that don't go away, poor carb tolerance, new or worsening food intolerances, IgG or IgM immunoglobulin deficiency, positive Antinuclear Antibodies (ANA), hypocomplementemia, .... You don't have to have all these signs for there to be a problem.

Disturbingly, metabolic acidosis tends to be asymptomatic (http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/endocrine-and-metabolic-disorders/acid-base-regulation-and-disorders/metabolic-acidosis) and you don't have to have diabetes to have it (some LC proponents assumed that because if there is no diabetes that they can thus just dismiss subpar anion gap numbers, without giving a reason why beyond confirmation bias).

LC gurus tend to focus on measures that LCers do best on, thus creating self-fulfilling prophecies. For example, when it comes to lipid panels, they tend to suggest that all you need to worry about is that your HDL is relatively high and that with triglycerides, "lower is better." They don't warn us that triglycerides can go too low and that extremely elevated LDL can be a sign of other problems. Just as cholesterol performs necessary functions in the body, so too do triglycerides. Both have been excessively demonized.

Just one thing, I as a GM, may no longer be RVLC but this has nothing to do with my health. In social settings, nowadays,  I find it impossible to avoid eating some level of carbs as the alternatives are even worse. I do therefore want to make it clear that RVLC is perfectly healthy - I did it for many years in the past and did fine on it.
So theoretically healthy but practically "impossible"?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: 22 bodybuilder 2 weeks into Zero carb High Blood pressure
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2016, 03:37:42 am »

So theoretically healthy but practically "impossible"?
No, healthy in reality, not theory. And not practically impossible. Iguana, for example, is able to eat 100% rawpalaeo, along with some  other members. It all depends on the person's circumstances. I allow a few dietary vices in life for myself so as to get on with various cooked-foodists who, otherwise, would view me as beyond-the-pale.
"If it is right for me, it is right. It is possible that it is wrong for others: let them take care of themselves"
"Whoso is full of sacred (religious, moral, humane) love loves only the spook, the "true man," and persecutes with dull mercilessness the individual, the real man." Max Stirner