Author Topic: Frozen versus Fresh Meat  (Read 434 times)

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Offline Qondrar_The_Redeemer

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Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« on: May 16, 2018, 05:30:50 am »
Just wondering what everyone thinks about frozen meat versus fresh meat? I've seen people claiming it's worse, but have not been able to find any evidence for it. For reference, I eat mostly fresh, I've also eaten both dry aged and high (fermented) meat. I eat mostly my liver frozen (I buy in bulk so it's better because I can have more space in my refrigerator, I also prefer the texture, taste is about the same) and I sometimes freeze excess meat if it can't all fit into the fridge. I've no problem with putting the meat outside the fridge either (room temperature).

Without getting off topic, again I'd like to know what your opinion is and if there's any evidence to back it up. I haven't personally experienced a difference other than texture and what temperature the meat is at (I eat the meat semi-frozen to avoid thawing completely).

And to avoid confusion, by meat I mean the entire animal. All the organs, muscle and even blood.
Any difference to freezing fat compared to freezing lean meat compared to freezing blood, for example?

Offline ys

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Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 11:25:25 am »
I searched all over and found no evidence that freezing impacts nutrients in any negative way.  When thawing in room temperature some juices may leak and that's about it.

Some people swear they can taste and feel the difference but to me fresh or frozen tastes the same.

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 02:19:04 pm »
I once read an online article about the effects of freezing on meats. Unfortunately, it is no longer available.The article was very scientific, pointing out how the enzymes in the frozen meat tend to become slightly denatured as a result.An RPDer on a previous forum claimed that all the enzymes in frozen meats are wholly destroyed after  c. 10 weeks of being frozen, though provided no scientific data. The article also mentioned that the formation of ice-crystals rips the cell-membranes open so that, once it starts thawing, the meat loses nutrients at a rapid rate.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221824503_Impact_of_freezing_and_thawing_on_the_quality_of_meat_Review

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/bit.10612

Googling always helps....
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Offline Qondrar_The_Redeemer

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Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 04:59:29 pm »
I once read an online article about the effects of freezing on meats. Unfortunately, it is no longer available.The article was very scientific, pointing out how the enzymes in the frozen meat tend to become slightly denatured as a result.An RPDer on a previous forum claimed that all the enzymes in frozen meats are wholly destroyed after  c. 10 weeks of being frozen, though provided no scientific data. The article also mentioned that the formation of ice-crystals rips the cell-membranes open so that, once it starts thawing, the meat loses nutrients at a rapid rate.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221824503_Impact_of_freezing_and_thawing_on_the_quality_of_meat_Review

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/bit.10612
Since I eat the meat semi-frozen, the nutrient loss should not affect me. Slightly denatured enzymes are what I kind of expected, based on what I've read on freezing/thawing meat.

It's interesting how he mentions the enzymes are destroyed wholly after 10 weeks. It is a shame there isn't much information I could find from my search, although perhaps I have not been spent enough time researching it.

Thank you for your answer. You wouldn't by chance know of anyone else here or somewhere else, claiming that freezing does significant damage to the meat, would you?

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 06:44:27 pm »
"Semi-frozen"? What does that mean? Do you mean "chilled"? (ie stored at between 2 to 4 degrees Celsius).

No idea re others. AV did have a theory that freezing was 25% as bad as cooking but did not give any scientific data, as usual.
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Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 07:26:31 pm »
I have access to fresh kills at our wet markets... yes it makes a big difference in taste, fresh is really the way to go.  Deeeeliccioussss is the word.

I once located my office beside my favorite wet market for a year and had access to fresh kill anything daily.

But then, there is the problem of availability if you do not have access to the "bestest" and freshest you will have to make do by refrigeration and freezing... thank the engineers and scientists for refrigeration technology.

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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 07:40:51 pm »
Incidentally, for those who think freezing isn't palaeo, I should point out that I am a fan of archaeology and have visited sites from the Romans to the Middle-Ages where they stored frozen meats in deep stone pits beneath the surface. What they would do is, each winter, collect lots of snow and ice and pack it into these pits and shove their meats down as well. Invariably, the meats stayed frozen until consumed. I would not be at all surprised if freezing meats happened at the same time as when cooking was invented, if not before. Not saying that freezing is a good thing, just pointing out that ancient peoples had their own equivalent of fridges in those bygone days. We moderns, such as 2 or 3 on this forum, often have a delusion that we are all far more advanced/more intelligent than past peoples, especially non-urban ones, yet, as we have seen in many past threads on RPF re new discoveries re the Palaeolithic era, this is simply nonsense.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 09:25:43 pm by TylerDurden »
"If it is right for me, it is right. It is possible that it is wrong for others: let them take care of themselves"
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Offline Qondrar_The_Redeemer

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Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2018, 08:16:31 pm »
I have access to fresh kills at our wet markets... yes it makes a big difference in taste, fresh is really the way to go.  Deeeeliccioussss is the word.

I once located my office beside my favorite wet market for a year and had access to fresh kill anything daily.

But then, there is the problem of availability if you do not have access to the "bestest" and freshest you will have to make do by refrigeration and freezing... thank the engineers and scientists for refrigeration technology.
I have access to the best quality beef and pork (the entire animal), along with all kinds of wild game. The problem with wild game so far is that I can only get muscle, so that's not a viable option for me. I always get meat fresh. Although I can personally leave it outside at room temperature to make either dry aged or fermented meat. The only organ or even any part of the animal I freeze is liver, and that is because I buy in bulk, and I prefer the taste of fresh liver rather than aged or fermented liver. It's also usually an issue of not enough space in refrigerator, since that is usually reserved for muscle and other organs. I might occasionally freeze some bone marrow, if I get a gigantic amount of it, as after three weeks or a month or so bone marrow starts to get a sticky texture that is not as good as when fresh (although it's obviously perfectly fine to eat).

I wouldn't say I personally taste a difference in frozen versus fresh liver. The only difference is the texture since I eat it semi-frozen. At least that's how it is for me.
"Semi-frozen"? What does that mean? Do you mean "chilled"? (ie stored at between 2 to 4 degrees Celsius).

No idea re others. AV did have a theory that freezing was 25% as bad as cooking but did not give any scientific data, as usual.
Definition of semi-frozen:
https://www.definitions.net/definition/semifrozen
I just don't let the meat thaw out completely when I eat it, that's all.

Offline ys

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Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2018, 01:13:10 am »
Quote
"Semi-frozen"? What does that mean?

What he probably means is it is soft enough to cut it but still hard enough so it does not leak much juice.

Quote
enzymes in frozen meats

I don't think there is such thing as enzymes in meat.  I could not find any.  For example our saliva has amylase to break down carbs.  It appears there are no such enzymes in muscle meat.  All enzymes come from outside.  If there is one that's found inside meat I would be very interested to read about it.


Offline Fenrir

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Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2018, 01:26:48 pm »
Though I feel its very likely that fresh never frozen meat does taste better I haven't been able to try it yet, I would have to say the benefits of eating a raw diet will still be drastic regardless, ive been eating frozen meat shipped from white oak pastures in Georgia for the entirety of my raw diet experience which will be one year as of the 7th of next month and I always think it tastes amazing. I order fat from them which sometimes sits in my freezer for several months depending on how much I stock up but I haven't ever been able to tell a difference in it I can't explain with normal variation.

 I really do love the quality of their meat but they've all of a sudden raised the prices on everything 125-150% and I don't think I'm willing to pay that much if I can find a local alternative that supplies good quality meat, I know buying local is far more responsible anyways. I'm hoping to find a rancher with grass-fed goats or lambs in the north Texas area I'm willing to travel to aquire it if its a reasonable price, I don't mean to derail the thread but I've seen 80-90 pound whole lambs listed online for around 320 US dollars is this around what I can normally expect to pay?