Author Topic: Liquified Ketogenic Diet  (Read 8464 times)

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Offline Paleo Donk

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Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« on: June 18, 2015, 03:44:21 am »
Hey all,

My dad has been very recently diagnosed with a rare form of brain cancer (T-cell lymphoma) and has very quickly degenerated from normal human functioning to ECOG performance status 4 (the most he can do is open his eyes) in only the span of one month. Chemo starts tonight.

My biggest contribution for my dad at this point would be to prepare a liquid ketogenic diet that could be easily administered through a feeding tube. Ketogenic diets have done wonders for epileptic children but have only now just begun to be studied more seriously for cancer with some early promising results. There is this awful formula called Ketocal for epileptic children which would be very easy to administer but is based on soy and other vegetable oils as its fats.  I'd like to think it would be easy to make a superior formula for my dad.

I am assuming the physical properties of the formula I am going to create must adhere to certain restrictions as so it can pass through the tube. I will be talking to a nutritionist soon about this. So far A simple formula will contain the following:

Bone broth
Some mix of Coconut/Palm/Olive oil
Protein powder (Great lakes gelatin and a beef/whey based powder)
Some greens and berries

It needs to contain at least 70% of calories from fat and at most 5% from carbs. Any other suggestions are appreciated.

Offline Alive

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 07:34:33 am »
You could take a look at Citizens Against CUT, POISON, BURN on facebook

Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 10:45:33 am »
gently warm bone marrow, raw butter, and maybe even raw fat if it will melt to an oil consistency.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 12:04:09 pm »
Alive, all the major treatments (surgery, radiation and chemotherapy) have shown significant clinical efficacy. Immunotherapy has caught fire lately and now 'metabolic' therapy which is what I am targeting in addition to the big three for my dad. I am not going to debate conventional therapy in this thread. I'm sure there are dozens of other threads for that. So, given that my dad is getting standard treatment I want to fuel him with a ketogenic diet. He's being fed with a tube right now so I need to make liquidify it. The oncologist actually was tentatively open to the idea and suggested I talk to the nutritionist about it so that is good news.

ATCP, yes I was thinking bone marrow should go down the tube easily and my dad was the first person to tell me how to eat bone marrow from the insides of chicken bones so it seems fitting to go that route. If you know of a specific way of melting animal fat and keeping it liquid at room temperature I'd be willing to listen.

I'm making some bone broth now and will be making my first batch of this keto solution tomorrow.

Offline eveheart

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 12:46:12 pm »
If you know of a specific way of melting animal fat and keeping it liquid at room temperature I'd be willing to listen.

I'm not at all familiar with the dynamics of a feeding tube, but I am a relentless experimenter. I would suggest using a high speed mixer such as a Vitamix to blend fat with your other ingredients and then thin the whole batch with your slightly-warm bone broth. Try different fats, such as marrow, melted fat, solid fat, egg yolk, butter, etc. Egg yolks are good emulsifiers, too, so try egg yolk with another fat to see if you get something that stays suspended in the liquid better. If this involves small, frequent feedings, make a undiluted base that can be thinned down as needed. Maybe Inger's fishhead smoothie would be a good food, too.

"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2015, 10:50:36 pm »
Thanks eveheart for the response. I am going to be doing lots of experimenting in the future trying different combinations to find out what works and will try all of the fats you listed.

My dad had not eaten for about a week (which could be a good thing as starvation is actually quite beneficial) as he had lost his ability to swallow and the medical team was determining how to correctly feed him. They move incredibly slow but that is another story. My dad finally was given a formula yesterday which consisted of the following garbage. (Image from my cell phone)



If you can't read that - the first two ingredients after water are corn syrup and canola oil. They actually have healthier organic blends but of course we were not even made aware of them until much later. I had the nurses setup an appointment for me to meet with the nutritionist to talk about administering a ketogenic diet. I am normally a fairly passive person but my encounter with the nutritionist was anything but that. I made my own keto blend (consisting of broth, coconut and olive oil, animal and plant protein powders and juiced fruit and veg) and desired the extremely simple task of filling their feeding bag up with my blend. It would perhaps take me all of 30 seconds to open the bag and empty my blend into the bag.

The nutritionist at first offered me the organic blends which I of course rejected as they are non-ketogenic blends and said that was the best they could do because of their 'policy'. I then told her that she needs to do whatever it takes for me to sign consent legally to administer my formula to my dying father. I am not sure why this is such a big deal to them. I am the paying customer paying 10k per day to stay in this overpriced hotel. I pay you. You help me out. Its simple. She finally escalated my demands to the head nutritionist who attempted to debate some of the science on cancer metabolism and ketogenic diets. He lost but I wanted to steer the situation away from a debate and towards administration as at this point the science is meaningless. I just want to try this approach. Perhaps a turning point was when I shifted the talk from cancer to epilepsy in children which ketogenic diets show almost complete remission of symptoms if followed properly. I then talked about how this diet is not a cure at all and how I am merely attempting to shift the probabilities slightly in my dad's favor. I think this started to click with him as he was less likely to debate the specifics any more.

We finally settled on agreeing to administer Ketocal to him beginning on Monday. Ketocal is a commercial product (made of terrible ingredients) that induces ketosis due to its ratio of fat to carbs. This was a small victory I suppose. Throughout the whole process I had to be extremely aggressive and forceful and stepped way out of my comfort zone to advocate for my father. Seems like individualized care is just not in their playbook. They just check boxes and move on. I will spending lots more time at the hospital and will attempt to advocate much more for anything possible.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2015, 11:33:42 pm »
I'm sorry you're going through that stuff.

Offline eveheart

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2015, 11:42:51 pm »
Medical professionals like to use packaged treatments that are quantified and verified by their own medical organizations. That's not to say that a homemade batch won't exceed the quality and efficacy of the packaged product, just that they have not quantified and verified your formula.

Here in California, hospice is gaining popularity beyond its usual end-of-life application. If hospice is available and appropriate, you might explore the possibilities of home care for your father. At the very least, visiting nurses are less harried than their in-hospital counterparts, so they are more cheerful and relaxed. They say that, in the U.S., most sick people die in the hospital and most sick doctors die at home. That is interpreted to mean that doctors do not choose the hospital when they need ongoing critical care.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 12:05:49 am »
Sorry for the bad news, Paleodonk.

I found a couple of feeding tube versions online:

http://stephenson.typepad.com/train_with_nellie/2011/03/a-new-challenge-paleo-in-a-feeding-tube.html

https://www.paleohacks.com/help-1959/what-to-feed-someone-with-cancer-on-a-feeding-tube-17810

I don't know how good they are, but they at least look better than the Ketocal gunk. Maybe it would help if the nutritionist saw that other people have used these homemade versions.

I've seen claims that certain brain cancers are one of the things that respond best to ketogenic therapies, and perhaps you saw some of them too:

http://robbwolf.com/2007/09/23/cancer-ketosis
robbwolf.com/2013/01/09/thoughts-carb-paleo-episode-3-hope
http://robbwolf.com/2013/09/19/origin-cancer

If it were me and I had control over what I could eat, I would probably try a ketogenic therapy for brain cancer myself--especially if there was good evidence for whatever particular kind I had. I'm not a physician, of course, so I'm not prescribing and take it with a grain of salt.

Best wishes for your father and you.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline kalo

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2015, 08:55:04 am »
Thats power how you stood up for your father. Keep fighting!

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2015, 05:44:09 am »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline jessica

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2015, 07:29:48 pm »
Pigments like methylene blue and chlorophyll are another approach that has been generating some interesting research:

Functions of natural pigments on gastric ulcer and cancer
http://tissuescience-regenerativemedicine.conferenceseries.com/abstract/2015/functions-of-natural-pigments-on-gastric-ulcer-and-cancer#sthash.WXyTE00S.dpuf

"Mitochondria: The 'power supplies' of cells. I believe, they also represent pulsating near infrared light sources because they contain the vast majority of porphyrin (heme-)containing proteins in tissue cells, namely the cytochromes." - Prof. Guenter Albrecht-Buehler, http://www.basic.northwestern.edu/g-buehler/htmltxt.htm

Light-harvesting chlorophyll pigments enable mammalian mitochondria to capture photonic energy and produce ATP
http://jcs.biologists.org/content/127/2/388.full

Nonphotosynthetic Pigments as Potential Biosignatures

Flavonoids and Melanins: A Common Strategy across Two Kingdoms

PLOS ONE: Ionizing Radiation Changes the Electronic Properties of Melanin and Enhances the Growth of Melanized Fungi


Methylene blue is a photosensitizer: A transcriptional response to singlet oxygen, a toxic byproduct of photosynthesis.

Methylene Blue: Revisited
Prashant R. Ginimuge and S.D. Jyothi
J Anaesthesiol Clin Pharmacol. 2010 Oct-Dec; 26(4): 517–520.
"Recent research suggests that Methylene Blue and other redox cyclers induce selective cancer cell apoptosis by NAD (P) H: quinine oxidoreductase (NQO1)-dependent bioreductive generation of cellular oxidative stress. Hence Methylene Blue is being investigated for the photodynamic treatment of cancer."
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2015, 08:30:54 am »
"Ray" reported developing esophageal gastric junction cancer 2 years after starting a ketogenic diet with vitamin D supplements:
http://caloriesproper.com/sunlight-and-the-circadian-rhythms-in-your-skin/#comment-2082147049

Is a keto diet perhaps not a cancer cure-all?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Robinlove

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2017, 01:08:46 pm »
Ghee, of it doesn't need to be raw, raw heavy cream, egg yolk, warmed sustainable palm oil, macadamia oil, walnut oil, avocado oil, fermented cod liver oil, any form.of suet that you can add to a blender

Id do a combination of raw butter, raw cream, raw yolk, and raw beef liver and blend the hell out of it.

Don't go crazy with bone broth as it has more protein than we think (knocks out of ketosis) and an amino acid whose name I can't recall that tends to spike blood sugar levels, even if macros are correct (loads of people have reported this and it has been clinically studied), which furthers the issue of being knocked out of ketosis.

Hmm I wonder if MCT oil or the bullet proof brand brain octaine would be helpful.

If you want him to get into ketosis as quickly as possible, feed him just fats for three days, then add back in a bit of protein and minimal carbs. I mean, really, he doesn't need any carbs. Most carbs for folks in ketosis are either treats, like chocolate of the occasional berries or something, or sugars in veggies or milk.

I'd recommend a fat fast (three days just fats) and then the other macros in appropriate ratios.

Good luck. I hate cancer. I will post back In here if I can think of anything else.


Offline Robinlove

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Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2017, 01:16:17 pm »
"Ray" reported developing esophageal gastric junction cancer 2 years after starting a ketogenic diet with vitamin D supplements:
http://caloriesproper.com/sunlight-and-the-circadian-rhythms-in-your-skin/#comment-2082147049

Is a keto diet perhaps not a cancer cure-all?

No, it's not. I've read studies for people who have advanced cancer, and it not curing, but it did improve a lot of things. It also made their lives easier. But ketosis starves cancer cells. So I dunno. Maybe case by case... It's worth a shot.

I love someone who refused to change his diet even though he was told he has less than a year left, after being diagnosed with the fourth kind of cancer. He'd rather smoke all the tobacco and eat all the brightly colored cereal and add sugar to everything and eat all the candy and drink all the koolaide and yell at everyone cuz he's miserable and scared  and puke all the time cuz he's literally dying. So well....

Go for it. Nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain. My heart bleeds for you.