Author Topic: Fermented raw plant foods  (Read 17770 times)

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Offline LePatron7

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Fermented raw plant foods
« on: December 08, 2012, 05:08:32 pm »
Besides getting lots of friendly bacteria from high and fresh raw meat. Getting friendly bacteria from fermented plant foods is a good idea too.

By consuming a variety of bacteria types, you ensure your digestive tract is able to digest the various plant and animal foods you consume.

All of these are easily made at home, and not just cheaper than the store equivalent but much healthier since they avoid the additives (or being pasteurized).

Pickles
http://www.scdiet.net/elainesrecipes.htm
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/naturally-fermented-dill-pickles/

Sauerkraut
http://pecanbread.com/new/sauernew.html

Cortido
http://www.nourishingdays.com/2009/07/the-benefits-of-fermented-food-lacto-fermented-vegetables/

Kimchee
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Kimchi-Kim-Chee/

Fermented Salsa
Pickled Jalapenos
Ginger carrots
http://www.scdkat.com/2010/04/ferments/

Fermented raw honey
http://www.culturesforhealth.com/how-to-ferment-honey]http://www.culturesforhealth.com/how-to-ferment-honey
http://www.wildfermentation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3237

A great link on fermentation
http://www.wildfermentation.com/forum/index.php?sid=db15c41f808196e1a6c4e4f10e970b74

Constipation Cure with sauerkraut:-

http://www.myhealthblog.org/2012/12/06/constipation-cure-testimonial-with-saurkraut-probiotics/

Book on theory and practice of fermentation in general:-

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Fermentation-Depth-Exploration-Essential/dp/160358286X

Recipe book concerning fermentation:-

http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Fermentation-Flavor-Nutrition-Live-Culture/dp/1931498237


"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2012, 05:38:45 pm »
Thanks. I'll sticky this. I think, though, there are many other possibilities such as kimchi? If you could add the others  at some stage in the future, I could insert them into that 1st post.
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Offline LePatron7

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2012, 01:02:23 am »
Thanks. I'll sticky this. I think, though, there are many other possibilities such as kimchi? If you could add the others  at some stage in the future, I could insert them into that 1st post.

Sounds good.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline eveheart

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2012, 01:16:13 am »
The only plant foods I eat are fermented plant foods. Plant-food fermenting follows the same basic procedure for lacto fermentation. The difference between one "recipe" and another is usually seasoning or degree of fermentation. For example, sauerkraut and kimchi are the "same" except that the former uses green cabbage and the latter uses Chinese cabbage, and each has its own traditional flavoring additions, such as caraway seeds for sauerkraut and red pepper flakes for kimchi. Both ferments can be long and slow or quick.

My favorite source for fermentation information is Sandor Ellix Katz AKA "Sandorkraut," the author of Wild Fermentation. He discusses the fermentation of everything except animal flesh.
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Offline LePatron7

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2012, 02:18:43 am »
Kimchee
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Kimchi-Kim-Chee/

Fermented Salsa
Pickled Jalapenos
Ginger carrots
http://www.scdkat.com/2010/04/ferments/

Can these be made without whey?
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline Eric

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2012, 03:05:49 am »
I also recommend Sandor Katz most recent book Art of Fermentation, which covers both plant and animal food fermentation processes. It's not a recipe book like Wild Fermentation, but goes deeper into theory and practice so those interested in the process can be creative. Both books are on my shelf.
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Offline LePatron7

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2012, 09:24:33 am »
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 02:21:48 pm »
All inserted in the 1st post.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2012, 02:38:06 am »
Fermented raw honey
http://www.culturesforhealth.com/how-to-ferment-honey]http://www.culturesforhealth.com/how-to-ferment-honey
http://www.wildfermentation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3237
Fermented raw honey is actually an animal food made by bees, rather than a true plant food (and thus most vegans avoid honey and dairy products). I created a thread for fermented raw animal foods here - http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/display-your-culinary-creations/fermented-raw-animal-foods-more-than-just-high-meat/msg103007/#msg103007. I tried to add enough entries to make it worthy of a sticky, so we can post fermented animal foods there and fermented plant foods here.

Interestingly, the things that are made in nature to be foods ALL ferment: Fruits/berries, nectar, tree sap, honey, honeydew, and milk are all substances that are produced in nature to be foods and they all ferment. Fruits/berries, nectar and tree sap are made by plants and the rest are made by animals.

Fermented veg like sauerkraut and pickles is frequently written about, but fermented fruits, nectars and saps are rarely written about. Here are some exceptions:

Orangutans brew raw durian wine in the wild and evidence "suggests that our ancestors regularly consumed [raw] alcohol as a part of their fruit-rich diet." (The Wine of Astonishment Why Drinking Wine Gets You Drunk, by Robert Walters, http://www.finewinemag.com/docs/22%20WaltersAstonishment.pdf) - Thanks again to DopeDivinity for this source.

A game warden said that black bears are attracted to the smell of fermenting fruit:
Gold Diggers

Chimps and other primates also like fermented fruits, as this quote hints at:
"Extra ripe bananas give the recipe for our chimp gruel a nice strong flavor."
http://www.honoluluzoo.org/support-the-zoo/enrichment/chimp-enrichment-termite-mound.html

Tree shrews, which are quite similar to an ancestor of all Homo sapiens, drink fermented flower nectar: Tree Shrew Sober Despite Drinking All Day by Clara Moskowitz, http://www.livescience.com/7540-tree-shrew-sober-drinking-day.html

Acerglyn: fermented maple syrup (normally heated, but probably doesn't have to be)
Example: http://www.donosborn.com/homebrew/acerglyn.htm

Raw fermented vinegars made from apple cider, coconut sap and coconut water:

Quote
"The ideal apple cider vinegar is in raw liquid form. It should be unprocessed and unfiltered, with plenty of "mother" in it. Any other kind of apple cider vinegar will be far less effective and may provide no benefits at all. In fact, some cheap imitations are simply white distilled vinegar with caramel coloring added!"
Learn more: Elizabeth Walling, Detox and Cleanse with Raw Apple Cider Vinegar, Tuesday, August 25, 2009,
http://www.naturalnews.com/026910_apple_vinegar_cider.html#ixzz2EZjBf0oO

Quote
Only one vinegar, other than coconut vinegar (apple cider vinegar) can be purchased in an unpasteurized form so that it still contains a natural "mother." http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/category/coconut-products-coconut-vinegar.php

 
Claim of Coconut Sap Vinegar being superior to apple cider vinegar and coconut water vinegar:
Quote
Coconut Sap Vinegar vs Apple Cider Vinegar

Coconut trees are grown in rich volcanic soil, contributing to the sap's high mineral content (especially abundant in potassium - 192mg/tablespoon of fresh sap).  Coconut vinegar nutritionally exceeds other vinegars in its amino acids, vitamin and mineral content, and is an excellent source of FOS (a prebiotic that promotes digestive health).

By contrast, apple cider vinegar enthusiasts say it heals a vast array of ailments and prevent chronic diseases of aging, largely because it is chock full of nutrients. However, according to the USDA Nutrient Database, apple cider vinegar has no measurable vitamins A, B, C or E, and the fiber (pectin) and amino acid content is zero.

Coconut Vinegar has an alkalizing effect in the body, much the same as apple cider vinegar. Although vinegar is an acidic food, when it is metabolized by the body, it becomes alkaline producing.

The naturally occurring organic acids found in coconut sap vinegar provide the body with important minerals such as potassium, calcium, sodium and magnesium. These and other minerals form compounds in the body that convert acid body fluids into alkaline. These are known as alkalizing minerals.

Raw apple cider vinegar is touted by many as an alkalizing food that raises pH levels. Well known alternative health experts such as Earl Mindell and Dr. Robert C. Young, hold this point of view.

However, Dr. D. C. Jarivs, the physician who popularized apple cider vinegar as a cure-all and health tonic, recommended using it to make the body's pH more acidic. He found that his patients were more alkaline before they became sick, and that making the body more acidic helped prevent illness.

Since there is no clear consensus about acid/alkaline nature of vinegar, the best way to know how your own body responds is to regularly test your urine with pH testing strips.

Coconut Sap Vinegar vs Coconut Water Vinegar

There is a stunning nutritional and palatable difference between coconut vinegar made from the 'sap' of the coconut tree, and others onthe market made from the water of mature coconuts.

The sap collected from coconut blossoms before they form into mature coconuts, is universally revered in tropical cultures as the 'lifeblood' of the coconut tree. All of the minerals that aid the coconut tree in its growth and development primarily come from seawater along coastal shores where the majority of coconut trees naturally grow. The 65 abundant minterals in seawater are absorbed by the roots of the tree, and then delivered by way of the sap, to all parts of the tree. This sap is exceedingly rich in vitamins, minerals, and amino acids, all of which translates into the impressive nutritional profile of sap vinegar.

Aside from the dramatic diference in taste and nutrient content in sap vinegar over water-based vinegar, there are other key factors to consider as well, in making an infomed choice. Most noteworthy is the fermentation process of vinegar making. Sap vinegar is naturally aged for 8 months to one year, with not a single other alteration, thereby fully retaining and even enhancing its nutrient-rich properties.

Coconut water-based vinegar undergoes an 'assisted' fermentation process of only 2-4 weeks, by adding as a fermentation starter, either apple cider vinegar, or muscavado cane sugar to catalyze fermentation. Because of this, water-based vinegar is not capable of forming a 'mother' culture, thus resulting in a less nutritious end product. Sap vinegar, however, naturally produces a 'mother' full of alive probiotics, enzymes and other health promoting cofactors.

It is also important to note that the water from mature coconuts is considered a disposable byproduct in the production of other coconut ingredients such as coconut oil, coconut flour, shredded coconut, etc. Typically this water is of little interest, and is usually tossed out, making it much less costly to produce coconut water-based vinegar.

http://livesuperfoods.com/coconut-secret-coconut-vinegar.html


Claim of Coconut Water Vinegar being more environmentally friendly than coconut sap vinegar:
Quote
Tropical Traditions Organic Coconut Water Vinegar is truly unique and is the first of its kind in the US market! Most vinegars are clear because they are distilled and originally made from white sugar. Our Organic Coconut Water Vinegar is not distilled, but raw. It contains the mother of vinegar. In the Philippines most all commercial vinegars are distilled, and the "coconut vinegars" are not made from the nutrient-packed coconut water from inside the coconut, but from the sap of the coconut tree which is used to make lambanog, an alcoholic drink similar to vodka. These "coconut vinegars" are by-products of the lambanog industry. To make these products, one must harvest the sap of the coconut tree from the coconut flower bud, which would normally become a fruit-bearing coconut. Hence, trees dedicated to harvesting the sap for lambanog and the more common coconut vinegar will never produce coconuts. Tropical Traditions does NOT support coconut products that prevent coconut trees from bearing fruit (this would include "coconut sugar" harvested from the flowering bud of the coconut tree.) Coconut trees in the Philippines have been on the decline for decades, and the coconut oil from coconuts is also now valued as a fuel source in bio-diesel production, resulting in less coconut oil availability as a food source each year. Vinegar made from coconut water, however, does not sacrifice coconuts or coconut oil in its production, as it is collected from mature coconuts which are used to make coconut oil, and the same trees can continue producing coconuts year after year.

Tropical Traditions is the first company to make a truly organic product from the water of organic coconuts which is raw and fermented with fair-trade organic Muscabado whole cane sugar. This is one of the most nutrient-packed and healthiest vinegars you will find anywhere in the world!

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/organic_coconut_water_vinegar.htm
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
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Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2012, 04:35:34 pm »
PP, I've now permanently stickied the non-high-meat raw animal food thread of yours in the CC forum.
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Offline Eric

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2012, 11:49:21 pm »
Here's a goofy hypothesis that I'm sure has been said 10,000 times even though I can't find where anyone said it: What if human use of fermented (i.e. predigested by bacteria) foods was a precursor to cooking (i.e. sort of predigested by heat), and cooking came to dominate because it didn't require the eater of the food to wait so long?

Please note that I'm not claiming cooking is better, just that it accomplishes sort of the same thing in a shorter period of time.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2012, 07:28:11 am »
PP, I've now permanently stickied the non-high-meat raw animal food thread of yours in the CC forum.
Thanks Tyler.

Here's a goofy hypothesis that I'm sure has been said 10,000 times even though I can't find where anyone said it: What if human use of fermented (i.e. predigested by bacteria) foods was a precursor to cooking (i.e. sort of predigested by heat), and cooking came to dominate because it didn't require the eater of the food to wait so long?

Please note that I'm not claiming cooking is better, just that it accomplishes sort of the same thing in a shorter period of time.
Yes, that's basically my hypothesis as well. Some wild foods require either thorough ripening or fermenting or cooking to be made edible. An example is quinces, which many sources claim are inedible unless cooked, but Wikipedia reveals can be eaten raw if bletted after one or more hard frosts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bletting).

Most folks nowadays want fast food. Fermented foods are the slowest of the slow foods and thus much less popular than they used to be (aside from grain-based alcoholic beverages, which are cheap, plentiful, easy to come by, and provide many with a buzz that they crave).

Some people understand that fermented dairy foods (yogurt, kefir, etc.) and cabbage (sauerkraut, kimchi, etc.) are more digestible and provide probiotic health benefits if fermented, but few realize that this applies to any food that ferments (including meat and fish, which would shock the hell out of most people). When I see a claim that a natural food is only edible when cooked, I search for info about it being edible raw, and many times I find it. I even found reports that certain African and American yams (dioscorea) can be eaten raw (none of which I've seen in markets in the USA, though, so I can't try them myself to confirm it--but I don't doubt it, as evidence was found of Australopithecines eating yams and I doubt they cooked them first  ;D ).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 06:51:49 pm »
Just bought some pickling cucumbers, sea salt, and dill. I combined the 2 recipes on mark's daily apple and the scd one.

I also bought a head of red cabbage, and after work today will be making sauerkraut.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

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Offline LePatron7

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 08:13:43 pm »
If anybody can find NON-lacto fermented foods it would be much appreciated.

I'd like to make salsa, pickled jalapenos, and various other foods without having to use whey. I'd also love a fermented raw ketchup dish.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline eveheart

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2012, 11:00:29 pm »
If anybody can find NON-lacto fermented foods it would be much appreciated.

Using whey is what might be called cultured fermentation. All my fermented foods are wild-fermented. I use brine only. Most of the recipes I find are for wild fermentation. Try it. It just happens.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Fermented raw plant foods
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2012, 12:01:25 am »
Sauerkraut with purple cabbage.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014