Author Topic: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You  (Read 2689 times)

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Offline surfsteve

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How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« on: July 29, 2017, 06:27:30 am »
I've read Men used to have about ten times the testosterone than they do now. Also that estrogen is hidden in many things especially plastics. Aromotase is the key enzyme responsible for turning testosterone into estrogen. Aromatase Inhibitors prevent testosterone from turning into estrogen. Cruciferous vegetables are one of the best foods that contain aromatase inhibitors but I haven't been eating very many of them since I've switched to raw food. I don't know why but I thought I'd see if there's anything else I can do about it. The only herb that comes to mind is nettle root. I have some extract on hand but it's kind of expensive so I am interested to find out if there is anything else. I read that turmeric inhibited the aromatase in cancer cells but I have no idea if it works on normal cells as well. I seem to remember something about black pepper helping free up testosterone as well. I'm going to hit up google and see what I can find and will post anything interesting about it here.


Offline surfsteve

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2017, 06:51:12 am »


Quote
Aromatase inhibitors and estrogen blockers: Nature's answer to xenoestrogens and aging

Estrogen blockers, aromatase inhibitors(AI's) and estrogen detoxifiers, offer all round approach in fighting excess estrogen.

Although estrogen is important hormone for our well being, especially for women, high amounts can cause serious health problems, in both sexes. There are three types of estrogen, estrone (E1), estradiol (E2), and estriol (E3).

However, not all of them are made equal. Estradiol is the most strongest, natural occuring estrogen which has a great influence on males too, since it is involved in testosterone feedback loop.

In men, estrogens are produced from androgens such as testosterone, by enzyme aromatase which increases with aging.

WHY DO MODERN HUMANS PRODUCE TOO MUCH ESTROGEN

Our enviroment is filled with estrogen mimicking chemicals known as xenoestrogens which pollute the foods we eat and the water we drink.

By ingesting these chemicals, we are boosting the process of aromatization, thereby stimulating aromatase enzyme. This increases estrogen levels in the blood because of which women and men are getting more feminine.

While you may think that this is a good news for women and bad for men, you are wrong. It is bad for both sexes. However, estrogen blockers, aromatase inhibitors and estrogen detoxifiers are natural solutions for these problems.

High estrogen increases the risk of prostate problems, low libido, male breast cancer, short stature and gynecomastia, in men.

On the other hand, women these days have bigger breasts, more feminine characteristics and higher sex drive. However, because of it, women are also getting diagnosed with breast and ovarian cancer in their twenties, while experiencing weight gain and fertility problems.

Heart disease is another problem since high estrogen also affects the heart muscle and blood clotting mechanisms as well as other hormones which are crucial for normal heart function.

HOW ESTROGEN AFFECTS OTHER HORMONES

Estrogen is a crucial part of feedback loop of our hormonal system. Endocrine system is always trying to establish homeostasis. However, when estrogen is high, it signals the endocrine system that balance is already established which prevents further production of several hormones.

This is most apparent with testosterone but it affects other hormones which are precursors to testosterone and estrogens such as DHEA, progesterone and androstenedione.

DECREASE ESTROGEN WITH ANTI-ESTROGENS

I have tried many supplements. While couple of them have been very effective, I saw the biggest improvement with these anti-estrogen supplements, besides adaptogens, Hawthorn, vitamin D, Forskolin and fish oil.

The most potent estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors are:
Chrysin (5'7-Dihydroxyisoflavone) is a flavonoid from blue passion flower which has shown to be the most powerful natural aromatase inhibitor. However, its low bioavailability gives weak results in real life. To overcome that, you should consume it with piperine from black pepper, dihydroxybergamottin (DHB) from grapefruit or both.
White Button Mushrooms seems to be very powerful aromatase inhibitor with great real life results.
Trans-Resveratrol is not as strong as other AI's but it works. It also has numerous other health benefits, especially regarding the cardiovascular system.
Daidzein (4'7-Dihydroxyisoflavone) is a strong isoflavonoid extracted primarily from Kudzu root. Although it is not as strong as Chrysin, the body absorbs it much better.
Hesperetin is created by metabolising hesperidin in the stomach which is found in citrus fruits, especially orange.
Naringenin is another citrus bioflavonoid whose metabolites are able to inhibit aromatase enzyme and reduce estrogen.
Nettle Root contains probably the weakest of all aromatase inhibitors, 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran and Secoisolariciresinol.
CAPE from Bee Propolis is a natural SERM and estrogen blocker. It is one of the newest addition in the fight against xenoestrogens. It is helpful for men suffering from prostate cancer, women battling breast cancer as well as for reducing the risk of heart disease.
Vitamin D is another natural aromatase inhibitor. It is one of the reasons why so many teens experience growth spurt during summer.
Turmeric may also help, by occupying estrogen receptors.
7-MF (7-Methoxyflavone) is natural compound with powerful aromatase inhibiting properties, superior bioavailability as well as strong resistance to hepatic breakdown. Don't confuse it with methoxyISOflavone. 7-MF is completely different compound.
Acacetin (4'methoxy-5,7-dihydroxyflavone) is one of natural aromatase inhibitors isolated from the damiana plant which may suppress up to 63 percent of aromatase activity. Unlike some other natural AI's, it has no estrogenic activity at all.

NOTE: Although phytoestrogens such as Chrysin and Daidzein as well as natural SERMs such as CAPE, Turmeric and Resveratrol may inhibit aromatase enzyme to some degree, they are primarily estrogen blockers. They bind to estrogen receptors thereby blocking estrogen which causes an increase in testosterone, progesterone, DHEA and androstenedione.

DECREASE ESTROGEN WITH ESTROGEN DETOXIFIERS

When we have blocked estrogen and lowered its production with aromatase inhibitors, we have to detoxify excess estrogen as well as xenoestrogens. This is where the liver comes.

Liver is a detox powerhouse which is responsible for detoxification of our blood. When it is clogged, it can't do its job. However, there are a couple of liver herbs which can improve its function. They are:

    Milk Thistle
    Prunella Vulgaris
    Artichoke
    Dandelion
    Burdock
    Yellow dock
    Adaptogens
    Turmeric

Besides these liver herbs, there are some supplements which have a direct effect on estrogens metabolism. They are:
Indole-3-Carbinol or I3C is found in cruciferous vegetables. It helps detoxify estrogens because of which it works very well with estrogen blockers.
Diindolylmethane or DIM is a metabolite of I3C. It is stronger and more effective compound which increases the amount of good estrogens, while reducing the amount of bad estrogens and xenoestrogens. When you take DIM, you may notice a change in your urine color. Those are the toxins and estrogens being flushed out from the body. The best time to take it, is before bed or after you wake up since hormone levels are raising at night, during sleep.
Ingredients: White Button Mushrooms, Acacetin, 7MF, Daidzein, DIM, Zinc, Selenium + ALA, Bioperine & Vanadyl Sulfate

CONCLUSION

In order to lower estrogen, you don't need to take any supplements such as aromatase inhibitors. You can get them from food and sunlight.

Just eat white button mushrooms, citrus fruits, broccoli, brussels sprouts, spice up your food with turmeric and black pepper, drink a glass of red wine per day and get a healthy dose of sunlight to increase your vitamin D levels.

Also, the amount of fat you have is directly connected with how much estrogen you produce since fat cells contain the aromatase enzyme. Losing weight and lowering fat percentage will help lower aromatase enzyme, while detox, estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors will help with weight loss.
http://www.heart-health-guide.com/Aromatase-inhibitors.html

Offline Haai

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 12:01:04 pm »
Did you incorporate those foods, that are mentioned in the conclusion, into your diet? Any noticeable effects?
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 01:40:15 am »
Yes. That and more. Practically everything I eat is supposed to boost testosterone in one way or another. Even the cologne (blue spruce) I wear is supposed to boost testosterone. I am a big believer in Vince Gironda's recommendations. I eat (drink) 4 to 8 very, very lightly poached eggs a day. Can't afford raw glandular tablets so I just take a 4 oz slice of frozen raw liver with some water and chuck it into the blender. Tastes surprisingly good! Another thing I do is Rocky Mountain oysters. One to three times a day I make a smoothie with a quarter pound of them (raw, frozen slices). I add an equal amount of canned kale along with a table spoon or 2 of onion powder, a table spoon of nettle root extract, citrulline, the juice of 2 or 3 lemons, half teaspoon of malic acid (a tablespoon if I don't add the lemons), half teaspoon of TMG, magnesium glysinate, black pepper, quarter teaspoon celtic sea salt and a quarter teaspoon of potassium chloride. I also add 10 squirts of salmon oil and a healthy dose of hot sauce. Vince claimed that the RM oysters (he referred to them as orchic), liver and eggs worked just as good as taking oral steroids. I feel I am living proof to that! Been eating lots of bananas these days. Them and just about everything else I eat are supposed to boost testosterone. Lost over 10 pounds this month and I attribute it to the bananas and giving up beef, swapping it for wild caught sardines and herring! My diet is only about 80% raw these days. Down from 99%.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 01:48:27 am by surfsteve »

Offline Haai

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 11:53:49 am »
I came across your post because I'm trying to find a solution to get rid of my chest and back acne that I've developed. I think it could be hormonal. More specifically I suspect it's due to an imbalance in sex hormones,  but I don't know for sure.
My testosterone is sky high. That's total testosterone; I can't get free T tested here at the local blood testing centre without a referral from a doc. After a little secondary research, it seems high testosterone means high dihydrotestosterone  (DHT), which is often blamed as being a cause of hormonal acne.
Another stream of thought of mine was that perhaps (xeno)estrogens are to blame. I haven't been tested for it, but I've been traveling a lot the past 15 months or so, and so had to resort to drinking from plastic bottles most of the time. I quit this about 7 weeks ago. Instead I've been drinking only raw river water, which I collect and store in glass. I started including raw powdered broccoli and kale in my diet about 3 weeks ago, as well as fresh turmeric. Some days I think there's improvement and some days I'm like, nah there's no improvement. I guess I'll have to give it a few months.
Another thing to note, my body fat % is, I would estimate about 9%.
Part of me thinks I should try and lower my testosterone (f*** knows how), but then I think surely testosterone can't be the problem.
Any insights?
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2017, 09:15:55 am »
Hmmm. Try eating more green vegetables. Seems like that worked for me though I was also consuming a lot of liver and organ meat smoothies and even fruits. This is good evidence that it was not hormonal acne. At least for me. I like my fruits raw but seem to have problems consuming leafy greens in huge amounts unless they are cooked. I love canned kale and eat it right out of the can and also other greens just like Popeye did in the cartoon!

Ordinarily I'd suspect a bad diet as the cause of acne but since you are on here it probably doesn't apply to you. I don't know if free or bound testosterone or both causes acne but I do know that bound up testosterone does no good unless you can free it up.  Supposedly it is your body's oil production that causes acne and I think hormones can play a part in that.

I have a strong suspicion that the types of oil in ones diet have more to do with it than realized. One way I read to tell if an oil is good or bad is whether or not when it gets old if the top of the bottle becomes clogged or glued on by it. Both olive and coconut oil never get clogged but flax seed and most other oils are famous for it and I think they are highly over rated.

Oh yeah. Don't forget about fish oils. I take wild salmon oil for dogs because the brand I found is so much cheaper than the ones intended for human consumption. Seems like I had an old bottle of cod liver oil that got cemented shut a few years back. I would expect the same thing to happen with salmon oil but mine never stays around long enough to find out. Makes me suspicious though as to how good for you it really is. For now I'm still taking it...

Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 09:22:47 am by surfsteve »

Offline Haai

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 05:07:59 am »
Thanks for your input.
Yeah my diet is very clean. I follow a ketogenic version of the RPD. These days I eat, on a daily basis, about 400g beef, 100g berries, 6 tblsp raw dried broccoli or kale powder, and a few pieces of fresh turmeric and 200-300g beef fat, plus 2 capsules of Dr Rons astaxanthin supplement which contain salmon oil. Also about 2 liters of river water (I live in New Zealand atm, so have access to relatively clean rivers). Also one bottle of red wine (organic and preservative free) per week, which I just started doing a few weeks ago..
After a bit more reading I've decided to buy a zinc supplement. I'd read many times that zinc deficiency is often a culprit for acne. But I always dismissed it, because meat is a decent source of bioavailable zinc. However, I came across an old post written by Cherimoya, if my memory serves me right, about zinc being highly antagonistic with copper. This switched on a light bulb in my head, because I've always eaten quite a lot of liver, and even went through a period where I ate about half a pound of it per day. Liver is very high in copper, so I figured this could have had a negative impact on my zinc levels. Liver is also very high in iron. And I believe that iron and zinc compete for the same uptake channels in the body, perhaps further depleting my zinc. Blood tests already confirm that my iron (ferritin) is very high. That's why I do not currently eat organ meats, but I will reintroduce them sometime in the future and just make sure that I don't go overboard on them. Furthermore, apparently zinc acts as a DHT blocker. So hopefully I'm putting the right pieces of the puzzle together here.
I'm not one for opting in for supplements in general, but I'm allergic to shellfish, otherwise oysters would have been the way to go regarding upping zInc.
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 01:39:58 am »
Hmm. I been eating that much or at least half that much liver every day for years. I buy my liver packaged in prefrozen quarter pound slices and have one or two slices a day in a raw liver smoothie. If I remember correctly zinc and copper don't antagonize each other but rather compete for the same absorption sites.  I used to take a zinc supplement that had copper in it for that reason long before I started on liver smoothies.

I just looked it up and you are 100% correct about the high copper content in liver. I had no idea that there was three times as much copper as there is zinc in it but I do know you should be taking ten times more zinc than copper which is the reverse. So apparently I am grossly imbalanced in these minerals. Maybe I should be adding an ionic zinc supplement to my liver smoothies or something to help try and correct this. Zinc is also good for testosterone so it probably couldn't hurt.  I also probably shouldn't be having more than one liver smoothie per day, if that much.

Thanks for your input.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 02:10:54 am »
Also. You are eating 200 to 300 grams of fat to only 400 grams of beef? I'd be suspicious of that much fat being the cause of your acne! Especially if you are not taking the fat already in the beef into consideration. I tried a keto (hight fat) diet for a while and  despite reading very good things about it, it didn't agree with me at all. A third to half my calories from fat seems to be the sweet spot for me. I'd definitely check into the amount and kinds of fat you are consuming in relation to your acne.

Offline Haai

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 08:00:23 am »
Maybe I should be adding an ionic zinc supplement to my liver smoothies or something to help try and correct this.

I'd be more inclined to just lower liver intake. I know it's considered a superfood among the paleo community, but too much of a good thing can be bad.

Also. You are eating 200 to 300 grams of fat to only 400 grams of beef? I'd be suspicious of that much fat being the cause of your acne! Especially if you are not taking the fat already in the beef into consideration. I tried a keto (hight fat) diet for a while and  despite reading very good things about it, it didn't agree with me at all. A third to half my calories from fat seems to be the sweet spot for me. I'd definitely check into the amount and kinds of fat you are consuming in relation to your acne.


I actually started a ketogenic diet in an attempt to heal the acne. Before that I was getting approx 35 to 40% of cals from protein and I would guess about 10% from carbs.
I'm convinced that low carb is key to good health, because the eczema that I had when I first started RPD 7.5 yrs ago didn't disappear until I went low carb.
The only fat I eat is grassfed beef fat, a tiny amount of cold pressed extra virgin so-called raw coconut oil and the salmon oil that is in the Dr Rons astaxanthin supplement. With astaxanthin being, I believe,  the most powerful antioxidant known in nature, I think I don't need to worry about the salmon oil being rancid or anything.

In what way did a keto diet not agree with you? How long did you follow a ketogenic diet?
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline van

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2017, 12:09:08 am »
I'd be more inclined to just lower liver intake. I know it's considered a superfood among the paleo community, but too much of a good thing can be bad.

I actually started a ketogenic diet in an attempt to heal the acne. Before that I was getting approx 35 to 40% of cals from protein and I would guess about 10% from carbs.
I'm convinced that low carb is key to good health, because the eczema that I had when I first started RPD 7.5 yrs ago didn't disappear until I went low carb.
The only fat I eat is grassfed beef fat, a tiny amount of cold pressed extra virgin so-called raw coconut oil and the salmon oil that is in the Dr Rons astaxanthin supplement. With astaxanthin being, I believe,  the most powerful antioxidant known in nature, I think I don't need to worry about the salmon oil being rancid or anything.

In what way did a keto diet not agree with you? How long did you follow a ketogenic diet?

the salmon oil was rancid before they even put it in the bottle.   

Offline Haai

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2017, 12:52:43 pm »
the salmon oil was rancid before they even put it in the bottle.   

Is there a reason why you state this as if it's a fact?
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2017, 01:37:53 pm »
This general topic needs to be approached from a very broad perspective, and is relevant to what I have discovered

It appears that the majority of the pro androgenic elements have been entirely removed from the human environment. Testosterone building herbs, roots, and uncastrated male animal have been eliminated and replaced entirely with estrogen dominant foodstuffs. While at the same time artificial estrogen chemicals have saturated the terrestrial environment.

Other complications stemming from lack of certain nutrients, and deficiency of natural sunlight also play a role. Testosterone is built upon a foundation of cholesterol and the D proto-vitamins which are best synthesized by UV harnessing probiotic microbes and absorbed in the skin. Also testosterone cannot be properly broken down if the liver is overloaded with the toxic byproducts of poor food stuffs, estrogen mimickers, and whatever ungodly substances the kids are eating these days. These unproperly metabolized hormonal waste is eliminated through the skin where iot triggers oil glands to produce extra oil while stimulating bacterial detoxification protocol, as a means to void thorough the pores. The resulting Acne outbreaks are acutually a form of detoxification in accord with the Theory of AV regarding bacterial detox.

Sun Bathing along with practicing natural hygiene, and eliminating the triggering foods is the best way to begin to deal these kind of issues. The skin excretes oily substances laced with a food for certain bacteria, these bacteria intern detoxify the skin while producing vitamin D from UV light. This is a delicate process and is easily disrupted by using cleansers, other cosmetic products, antibiotics, sun avoidance, and in part leads people to become unable to obtain optimal hormonal balance. 

This is a bit of a tangent, but one worth following...Our hormonal systems not only regular our own bodies functions, but also on a Phenomenal level they trigger responses in others who share the same environment. I believe the bacteria which we cultivate on our skin send signals which can give valuable information about who we are, what our condition is on many levels...but because of the hive like conditions many modern humans live in, these pheromones have created sensory overload, where peoples natural biological aversions and attractions become disruptive to the social hierarchies of the business space, and so have been forcibly repressed, by the strict enforcement of dermal sterilization rituals.

Males particularly because they have a stronger natural scent, but also females are forced to use deodorizing chemicals at the start of puberty, and so most people grow up with the impression that Men are suppose to smell like cheap cologne and antiseptics, and the women to smell like fake flowers and perfume. Women are also forced to shave their pit and body hair which originally evolved to act like atomizers to spread their pheromones through the air. People who grow up entirely sheltered from phenomenal influences, do not develop proper sensitivities to the biological cues present in these hormonal messages, and so many are screwed up and mixed up when it comes to establishing organically evolving relationships.

Such confusion and disassociation with our biological hormonal cues, enable the development of structural dominance hierarchies, which do not operate in accord to humanities innate biological imperatives. Humans did not evolve to be A-sexual hive insects, yet these social hierarchical structures necessary for advanced societal cohesion seem to encourage trends of lower overall testosterone levels along with the suppression of healthy gender expressions in both men and women.

Where did these trends begin, could it be that agricultural societies began to cultivate emasculation foods, which took the wild out of humans who would otherwise not be content to live within such limited boundaries. Wild people who continued to forage and consume androgenic foods were eventually out bred and replaced by the exponentially increasing agricultural populations. The nomadic tribes one by one over the last 12,000 years began to become subjugated to effects the cooked estrogen. The yam, the soybean, the nightshades and many varieties of plants developed estrogen like chemicals as a biological defense mechanism, which were intended to render over consumers vapid and impotent...yet through the development of cooking humans began to tolerate higher and higher levels of these hormone mimickers, up to the point where tolerance led to addiction, so that those most effected by hormone disruption actually prefer the emasculated life, and are even collectively triggered by any expression of hyper masculinity traits in others.
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline van

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 12:31:23 am »
Is there a reason why you state this as if it's a fact?
  from experience buying directly from oil processor in Norway ( and others ) days old oil.  you have to be open to the idea that it is rancid to taste it.  We want to believe in our 'supplements' to fulfill our expectations.   Suggestion; find fatty salmon that has just been caught, and has not sat on a truck and display case for days.. ( pretty hard to find at that ),  warm it gently and use fine strainer or cheese cloth to squeeze out some of the oil, and taste.  Now compare it to what's in your bottle.  Notice the sensation in the back of your throat comparing one to the other.   And, see which one your body really wants more of from a taste point of view. 
    I'm in favor of allowing my body to guide my choices.   Hard to do if we're making choices from what's written on a label.
Fish oils are predominately polyunsaturated oils which are very unstable.  Bears, early man, ate the salmon right after catching.  Yes, fish have been smoked and fermented for centuries.  But just because that is fact doesn't mean for a second that those peoples weren't ingesting oxidated fatty acids.  I would have too, if it kept me alive over a long cold winter.  Many are out of balance with regards to balanced omega three to six fatty acids.  And do receive benefits from supplements aimed at balancing them.  But at what cost?   This is a raw forum.  So yes, if we were starving to death, cook food would keep us alive....

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2017, 12:54:30 am »
Van, what do you think of these 2 RAW cod liver oils?
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline van

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2017, 03:53:46 am »
maybe your link etc. didn't come through.  The proof is in the taste as far as oxidation goes.  In college, I went to a school up north and saw zero sunlight, developed real aches in my shins.   Cod liver oil took care of it almost literally overnight.  The vit. D was needed.   So my point again, there is benefit to fish oils.  But if one starts to read the opposing literature about them there's just too much data for me to risk taking them.
    I look for a burn in the back of the throat to detect oxidized fat.  The same is detectable in back fat when it's hung too long in my fridge.  Others here have  said they haven't noticed it.  I simply may be more sensitive.  And, hold that rancid fat/oil is a major component of aging, as inflammation causes all sorts of harm.
   

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2017, 05:49:43 am »
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline surfsteve

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2017, 12:16:43 am »
I believe Van has confused salmon oil with cod liver oil which is traditionally produced by fermenting cod livers till they have decomposed and left the oil behind. I actually like the taste of salmon but find the taste of cod liver oil to be disgusting. Especially the raw form produced in the traditional fermentation way, which TylerDurden was asking about. Funny how people can be gung ho about consuming rotten meat yet afraid of fish oil becoming rancid.

Guess the old but slightly modified saying it true...

You can't have your rancid meat and eat it too!

Offline van

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2017, 01:31:03 am »
I Was commenting on Salmon oil, and also included the story about cod liver oil.   I have also bought the usual talked about fermented cod oil and tried it one time out of the bottle.  Curious how promoters can tell you the burn is Only from the fermentation and not oxidized fatty acids.   Like I said, we tend to believe what we want to believe.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2017, 10:02:50 am »
There does not seem to be any real burn noticeable in the raw(unfermented?) cod liver oil from Rosita. Incidentally, some people who buy Rosita deliberately store the raw cod liver oil in the freezer. That means one has to prise the frozen oil out with a knife, but, apparently, it's not all that difficult to do so.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline van

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2017, 09:49:13 pm »
I'll check it out. Just might be unique.  thanks

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2017, 01:35:43 am »
@ van... I tend to agree about what you say about oils. I think the majority of people on this forum have probably heard it all before. But it doesn't justify stating as a fact that a particular salmon oil supplement is rancid before it was put in the bottle.
A more appropriate statement would be something along the lines of, "imo the chances are high that the oil was rancid before it was put in the bottle".
The way you said it made out like you had personal experience with said supplement - perhaps it caused a burning in your throat - and so you then went on to have a laboratory analysis carried out on it which proved that the fats therein were oxidized.
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline Haai

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2017, 01:55:42 am »

Sun Bathing along with practicing natural hygiene, and eliminating the triggering foods is the best way to begin to deal these kind of issues. The skin excretes oily substances laced with a food for certain bacteria, these bacteria intern detoxify the skin while producing vitamin D from UV light. This is a delicate process and is easily disrupted by using cleansers, other cosmetic products, antibiotics, sun avoidance, and in part leads people to become unable to obtain optimal hormonal balance. 


I work outdoors usually wearing nothing but a pair of shorts and shoes, so I get a  ton of sun exposure.
I don't voluntarily apply anything to my skin other than cold water (short cold showers).
I haven't taken antibiotics since I was a child or teenager.
I don't eat triggering foods unless grassfed beef (fat) or offal could be considered a trigger. I haven't eaten offal in 3 months now. There has been no improvement in symptoms.

I guess I just need to be patient. It's only been 8 weeks since I stopped drinking from plastic bottles and replaced it with river water.
I started taking the zinc a couple of days ago, let's see what happens with that.
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline Xisca

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2017, 06:35:52 am »
I came across your post because I'm trying to find a solution to get rid of my chest and back acne that I've developed. I think it could be hormonal. More specifically I suspect it's due to an imbalance in sex hormones,  but I don't know for sure.
My testosterone is sky high. That's total testosterone; I can't get free T tested here at the local blood testing centre without a referral from a doc. After a little secondary research, it seems high testosterone means high dihydrotestosterone  (DHT), which is often blamed as being a cause of hormonal acne.
Another stream of thought of mine was that perhaps (xeno)estrogens are to blame. I haven't been tested for it, but I've been traveling a lot the past 15 months or so, and so had to resort to drinking from plastic bottles most of the time. I quit this about 7 weeks ago. Instead I've been drinking only raw river water, which I collect and store in glass. I started including raw powdered broccoli and kale in my diet about 3 weeks ago, as well as fresh turmeric. Some days I think there's improvement and some days I'm like, nah there's no improvement. I guess I'll have to give it a few months.
Another thing to note, my body fat % is, I would estimate about 9%.
Part of me thinks I should try and lower my testosterone (f*** knows how), but then I think surely testosterone can't be the problem.
Any insights?
You can be transforming some testosterone into estrogen too.... As I do not have the problem I do not remember all the details, but I have seen explanations about hormones in the forum hack stasis. I guess you will never try acutane as did some unfortunate ex-users with side effects.

I would do a hair analysis from ARL or trace elements before taking any mineral even zinc, as it can unbalance your copper. My % was the reverse of what I guessed! 

Isn't the wai diet good for acne?

Offline Haai

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Re: How Aromatase Estrogen and Testosterone Affect You
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2017, 08:03:03 am »
From what I gather, the wai diet is very high in fruit, which in my opinion is loaded with too much sugar. Insulin spikes and over-stimulation of the mtor pathway are, I believe, very much associated with acne.
I originally started a RPD 7.5 yrs ago to combat eczema. I found that RPD only helped me with that condition once I went very low carb ie. very little fruit.
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.