Author Topic: Question about weight-lifting  (Read 31689 times)

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2013, 11:38:19 am »
I've also read that static holds with heavy weights are good for building tendon strength.

Offline svrn

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2013, 12:04:18 am »
When I stopped talking out of my ass and actually tried weight lifting I was really surprised with how effective it was at enhancing my physical ability. I thought that since I did lots of hard yoga and kickboxing style activities that I didn't need to weightlift and that kind of thing just makes you muscle bound and slow.

All that I found was that you get a little tight after some heavy lifting but you really notice your strength gains at the start when things that used to be heavy to you are suddenly no problem at all to lift. 

I only eat as much as I want to eat, I figure my body is smart enough to tell me to eat if it needs some food so i dont stress out about my calories or whatever so I dont really feel like that is an issue.

I used to be one of those 'functional strength' talking people since i did 'functional styled exercise', but then I thought i would test out Hit_it_raw's theories on strength where basicly the size of your muscle is a pretty good indication of its strength. And my observation was I started lifting weights, My muscles got bigger, and I got stronger.

I think the guys who go to the gym, lift incorrectly (your joint damage), only work their chest and biceps, and then go home and eat pizza and drink whey powder muscle max stuff and get weird fat/water retention problems and look all bloated give weightlifting a bad image. If you're eating good food and lifting correctly you should only see benefits.

nice to hear someone else coming from the bodyweight excercise/ functional strength perspective going into weightlifting,

iv only been doingb odywieght stuff for about 2 months now and its great. But I feel iv hit a plateau in my strength. I get stronger in that I do more reps of things  all the time but my strength isnt increased too much which is why im starting weights very soon.

i believe that the bodywieght stuff gives me a good foundation with which to start lifting.
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Offline Neone

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2013, 01:31:24 am »
When I stopped lifting random weights and started an actual 'program' (a basic 5x5 starting strength routine) I had much better results as well.  I am at an intermediate level now according to http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.htm so I will probably need to change things up a bit to keep on getting gains, But i pretty much just do Bench, Overhead press, Deadlifts and Squats. Takes about an hour each time, twice a week (or more if i get time/feel like it).
I really only wanted to be able to lift the 200lb guys off of me who i would be getting crushed by in grappling, and now that i can almost do that I might just stay there and work on getting more reps out of that weight.  And since I have a function for the benchpress movement, does that mean that benchpressing is actually a functional strength? haha.

I also still do bodyweight exercise, because lifting heavy weights in say, a squat, is a little bit different than jumping as high as you can from a squatted position with just your body weight, and i feel that both are important.

Also, doing bodyweight things.. I used to be able to almost hold a planche, but when i started lifting, my body got heavier and made doing things like that more difficult.  It took a little while to get used to doing a butterfly twist with a heavier body weight.  I also lost some flexibility because the time i used to spend on yoga went into lifting, So when you get stronger, you have to work harder on other aspects of your physicality to keep everything balanced.
That's not paleo.

Offline Martin

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2013, 07:58:16 pm »
Weight lifting is the best source for keep fitness of the body.Mostly young
people like the weight lifting work.It is the best solution for reduce the extra
body weight and fat.So weight lifting is a perfectible exercise....

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2013, 08:22:50 am »
Here's an update:

I've gone from being able to do a static hold at half-extension in a pullup position for 5 seconds to about 90 seconds.  Now I've started carrying an extra 25 pounds or so in my backpack while doing the pullup to increase the load.  I've increased muscle mass by about 6 or 7 pounds in the 13 months that I've been doing this.  That was unintentional.

I've been doing the same thing in handstand pushup position.  I've gone from 3 seconds there to about 15 seconds.  That's much slower going, but there's definitely improvement.  My goal is to be able to keep doing this for many years, and increase strength the entire time, instead of doing it quickly, and then getting bored.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 11:30:11 am by cherimoya_kid »

Offline svrn

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2013, 11:42:36 am »
So are you gonna start lifting weights or not?

Im really glad I did. Still glad I had the few months of bodyweight excercise before that though, think important to have that as a base.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2013, 11:52:18 am »
So are you gonna start lifting weights or not?



There's going to come a point where it's inescapable. I'm trying to decide if I should start with a squats machine, or just with deadlifts.

Offline svrn

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2013, 12:01:10 pm »
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jamesst2.htm

this is the program im doing and I like it very much. If ur not into once a month do it more often.

Theres no reason to wait, you can just do it if u want.
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Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2013, 02:26:31 pm »
There's going to come a point where it's inescapable. I'm trying to decide if I should start with a squats machine, or just with deadlifts.
They are both important. I would never exclude one for the other. Usually best to do either of them in a workout. Don't deadlift more than once a week or you'll fry your nervous system. Regular squats are far superior and safer than squat machine. Also don't forget about military presses and a form of rows or pullovers.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2013, 06:18:29 am »
They are both important. I would never exclude one for the other. Usually best to do either of them in a workout. Don't deadlift more than once a week or you'll fry your nervous system. Regular squats are far superior and safer than squat machine. Also don't forget about military presses and a form of rows or pullovers.

I don't need military press, since I already do handstand pushup holds.

Why are the freeweight squats better than the machine?

Tell me about the rows/pullovers.

Offline svrn

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2013, 08:48:01 am »
freeweight is always better because it makes you do more natural movements.
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Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2013, 06:51:07 pm »
I don't need military press, since I already do handstand pushup holds.

Why are the freeweight squats better than the machine?

Tell me about the rows/pullovers.
Miliatry presses are quite different than hanstand pushup holds. Think power prodution.
F = m * A
P = F * V
In any static exercise there is only force, no velocity, thus no power.

The larger the range of movement the larger the muscle mass involved the more valuable the exercise. Static holds produce very limited results. Limited in force, power, and range of movement.

Balancing a heavy barbell above the mid-foot takes an incredible amount of strength and neuromuscular coördination. Much bigger systemic trigger than leg presses(or squat machine little difference other than load aplication).
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
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Offline svrn

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2013, 11:27:15 pm »
what is Balancing a heavy barbell above the mid-foot?
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Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2013, 02:57:26 pm »
Well just that.

The only way you can support a heavy barbell in a squat is to keep it in a straight line above the mid of the foot. Other wise you either fall on your ass or your face. The heavier the load the smaller the moment arm between the weight and the midfoot you can handle.
 
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Offline svrn

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2013, 12:26:19 am »
are u talking about holding a heavy barbell mid squat?
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Offline Dr. D

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2013, 02:18:49 am »
CK: I'm glad you built muscle with static tension, but 7 lbs in 13 months is by no means something to write home about, even at only 90 seconds a day. Doing weighted negatives like HIT_IT_RAW mentions gave me about 8 lbs of muscle in a little over 2 months with no supplementation. This is with 1-2 15 min sessions per week. 15 min of pure exhausting exercise mind you haha.

Imo any exercise is better than none, but also imo, if you're gonna do something, do it right.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2013, 06:10:50 am »
CK: I'm glad you built muscle with static tension, but 7 lbs in 13 months is by no means something to write home about, even at only 90 seconds a day. Doing weighted negatives like HIT_IT_RAW mentions gave me about 8 lbs of muscle in a little over 2 months with no supplementation. This is with 1-2 15 min sessions per week. 15 min of pure exhausting exercise mind you haha.

Imo any exercise is better than none, but also imo, if you're gonna do something, do it right.

The increase in muscle was an unwanted side effect.

I knew a massage therapist, a woman who was maybe 5'3" and 120 pounds, who had the strongest grip I've ever encountered. She did not have large forearms or large muscles anywhere, but she had an incredibly strong grip, stronger than any man's that I know. She did not need large muscles for this kind of strength. Something's going on there, that people like you are completely unaware of.  While that's OK, I ask that you not go on and on with your talk of muscles while I'm trying to accomplish something different. 

The way that East Asian martial artists train to have an extremely powerful grip is by gripping something (like a tennis ball) with all their force for several seconds, and then releasing.  This is very similar to what I'm doing, except that I'm trying to train tendon strength in my arms/shoulders/etc. more, with less focus on my hands.  Do you see?


Offline Dr. D

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2013, 07:13:03 am »
Please don't make assumptions about my knowledge of exercise as that is very rude and quite condescending. Sorry if I offended you by assuming you were talking about mass gains.

Now I do know and am quite aware that with muscles mass does not mean strength. I've added more strength to my lifts than my friends by working out less. strength is a skill. I'm open to accepting that static training gives better strength gains in a shorter time than Tim ferris' version outlined in the four hour body. 2 reps at 90% max weight.5 min rest in between sets. 5 sets a day as long as you don't get muscle fatigue. Any opinion or experience with that type of workout? In his book, he said someone doubled their bench press in 2 weeks. Pretty impressive imo.

I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong but as I have learned, more muscle fatigue means more size, somewhat. It's not always true. But pushing yourself and not hitting fatigue allows for less muscle growth and more Muscle memory.

I just have to add, I'm NOT meaning to be confrontational. I'm inquisitive and willing to learn. I am asking your opinion on Tim Ferris' strength training and if you've heard anything about it or experienced it. Sorry I misunderstood your post about the muscle gain.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 07:22:23 am by Dr. D »
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2013, 09:15:38 am »
Please don't make assumptions about my knowledge of exercise as that is very rude and quite condescending. Sorry if I offended you by assuming you were talking about mass gains.

Now I do know and am quite aware that with muscles mass does not mean strength. I've added more strength to my lifts than my friends by working out less. strength is a skill. I'm open to accepting that static training gives better strength gains in a shorter time than Tim ferris' version outlined in the four hour body. 2 reps at 90% max weight.5 min rest in between sets. 5 sets a day as long as you don't get muscle fatigue. Any opinion or experience with that type of workout? In his book, he said someone doubled their bench press in 2 weeks. Pretty impressive imo.

I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong but as I have learned, more muscle fatigue means more size, somewhat. It's not always true. But pushing yourself and not hitting fatigue allows for less muscle growth and more Muscle memory.

I just have to add, I'm NOT meaning to be confrontational. I'm inquisitive and willing to learn. I am asking your opinion on Tim Ferris' strength training and if you've heard anything about it or experienced it. Sorry I misunderstood your post about the muscle gain.

Why do you think fast gains in strength are somehow ideal?  Do you think there are no downsides to such methods, in the long run?

 Tendon strength is a whole topic unto itself, and those training methods have nothing to do with increasing muscle size.  There's even some good science on the topic.  Take a look at the wikipedia article on "eccentric training", it's a good starting point.

These are ancient methods, with a long history in Asian martial arts and yoga.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccentric_training[



Offline Ioanna

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2013, 09:48:48 am »
ck, what are your workouts like these days? like what do you do, how often, etc.

Offline Benedict

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2013, 05:19:07 pm »
Any exercise that improves strength gradually also improves large, a muscle generates power in regards to its combination area, durability does originally increase without including large because your intramuscular coordination and expertise increase....

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2013, 05:35:23 am »
ck, what are your workouts like these days? like what do you do, how often, etc.

In addition to having a job that includes some manual labor, I am just doing my isometric pullups and handstand pushups, plus some yoga postures like cowface. I may start doing isometric squats soon.

Offline svrn

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2013, 12:21:04 pm »
i gained about 20 pounds in less about 2 months of doing convict conditioning. Then i kind of stopped gaining weight  even though my strength has increased immensly since then. Iv probably gained another 5 pounds since i got those initial 20 and this includes after I started lifting wieghts.

My weight often fluctuates +/- 6 pounds
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2013, 07:41:00 pm »
i gained about 20 pounds in less about 2 months of doing convict conditioning. Then i kind of stopped gaining weight  even though my strength has increased immensly since then. Iv probably gained another 5 pounds since i got those initial 20 and this includes after I started lifting wieghts.



This is similar to my experience.  I haven't gained muscle weight for quite a few months (after the first few months), even though I've gotten a lot stronger.

I like convict conditioning, i just think that I'd like to see some people doing isometric versions of those exercises.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Question about weight-lifting
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2013, 07:42:52 pm »
This video is proof that you don't need muscles for tremendous strength:

A one finger one arm pull up.

This guy, Alain Robert, does a ONE-FINGER pull-up. And his arms look totally normal, no extra muscle on them.