Author Topic: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)  (Read 32668 times)

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 09:12:07 am »
Fermented honey can be fed back to the bees but it is unfit for human consumption.  Honey can be frozen and that is a good way to keep honey for long periods of time.
LOL, Thanks for that quote, Eveheart. What ignorance. Fermented honey is not only NOT unfit, it's the best honey of all; and freezing isn't necessary at all--honey is the only food I'm aware of that can be stored for thousands of years without going bad (and fermenting is not going bad). Honey fermentation is clearly largely a lost art in the modern world. Thank heavens Really Raw is keeping it alive in the USA.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2011, 11:30:33 am »
LOL, Thanks for that quote, Eveheart. What ignorance. Fermented honey is not only NOT unfit, it's the best honey of all; and freezing isn't necessary at all--honey is the only food I'm aware of that can be stored for thousands of years without going bad (and fermenting is not going bad). Honey fermentation is clearly largely a lost art in the modern world. Thank heavens Really Raw is keeping it alive in the USA.

Speaking of honey, I've been eating Honey Pacifica's chunky cold-packed honey this week. It's delicious.   I think I'm going to order some more fermented Really Raw honey next.

I found a beekeeper in Portland that will mail me an entire frame of honeycomb, untouched/uncleaned.  I might get that next.

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2011, 12:09:58 pm »
I wonder if honey needs some moisture + some sort of starter to get it fermenting?  I wonder what would happen if I mixed in a little liquid from one of my other ferments (like sauerkraut or something)?

Offline eveheart

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2011, 12:18:28 pm »
Honey ferments without starter. It only needs moisture, such as a lot of moisture in the air when the beekeepers are collecting the honey. Really Raw Honey says, "You can actually do it yourself by dipping a wet spoon into a jar of raw honey! The honey can also ferment if it is exposed to heat. We have jars that ferment when shipped long distances in the summer time or stored in a hot place."

Really Raw Honey has delicious fermented honey. For me, it's not worth the hassle of trying to get the right conditions (without a hygrometer and something for temperature control), but I have had good aged honey end up fermenting by accident. Sauerkraut juice in honey might make an interesting experiment, but YOU do it, not I. LOL
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2011, 01:14:36 am »
Eveheart is correct. As with sauerkraut, honey doesn't need a starter to ferment. Starters are not used with the sauerkraut or the fermented honey I buy, according to the sellers of the products.

Starters are used in modern fermentation because they assure fermentation, shorten the time to ferment and are believed to produce more consistent results important for mass production. The resulting product is cheaper and more rapidly produced, but I have tasted both modern sauerkraut and traditional sauerkraut and I find the latter is far superior in taste.

Another shortcut that's used is to add an-already fermented pasteurized product, such as grain vinegar, and just pickle the food. This is done with sushi (which means vinegared rice), whereas the predecessor of sushi was raw semi-naturally fermented rice such as red yeast rice (rice fermented with a mold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_yeast_rice).
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Contemporary Japanese sushi has little resemblance to the traditional lacto-fermented rice dish. Originally, when the fermented fish was taken out of the rice, only the fish was consumed and the fermented rice was discarded.[3]The strong-tasting and smelling funazushi, a kind of narezushi made near Lake Biwa in Japan, resembles the traditional fermented dish. Beginning in the Muromachi period (AD 1336–1573) of Japan, vinegar was added to the mixture for better taste and preservation.
The vinegaring shortcut is also often done with sauerkraut and other pickled veggies. Here's an excellent write-up on the topic from the producers of one of the fermented veggie brands I buy:
Quote
Modern pickling methods, including use of vinegar (usually in place of fermentation) and pasteurization, produce a uniform, shelf stable product suitable to the needs of the large food corporations. Unfortunately, modern pickles do not offer the authentic flavor or health-promoting qualities of traditional pickles.

How it works

Lactic acid fermentation relies on beneficial cultures - similar to those used to make yogurt or sourdough bread - to break down natural sugars in the vegetables and produce a variety of healthful substances, primarily lactic acid.

The process begins with fresh, nutrient-rich vegetables, naturally bearing lactic acid cultures on their surfaces (making starters or innoculants unnecessary). http://www.realpickles.com/process.html
Here's the fermented honey seller's write-up:
Quote
Moisture and warmth produce fermentation. When the moisture level of the honey is slightly elevated and the temperature is warm, fermentation may occur, due to the enzymes and the yeast in honey. Two main reasons for heating honey in modern times are to stop fermentation and be able to strain it. But fermentation is not harmful. Some people believe that it is more effective for digestion than honey that is not fermented, but we have not seen any documentation to either prove or disprove this theory.

http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/category_s/44.htm
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2011, 04:57:18 am »
Interesting!
Maybe I'll buy some of the already-fermented honey and see how I like it, before trying to make my own.  It does sound yummy!

Offline LePatron7

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2012, 01:51:34 am »
I attempted at fermenting honey. I accidentally put to much water, so it's more liquidy than I'd like.

But I left it in the sun and it's making bubbles.
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Offline mariec77

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2014, 03:09:07 am »
came across this thread and found it interesting since i've recently started fermenting food & drink. spent a few hours searching the internet and found this http://www.pickl-it.com/blog/562/creamed-honey-recipe/ i know it says creamed honey but it is made using a fermentation airlock and talks about the honey fermenting and releasing gasses. i am thinking that not all creamed honey is fermented but fermented honey is creamed. i tried to find a picture of Real Raw Honey's fermented honey but had no luck there. since there are multiple people in the thread that expressed interest in fermented honey i thought i would share. i think if you already have some fermented honey you could use that as a starter to ferment some more.  also i've been thinking about the math to try to ferment it without any type of starter. since honey is already around 17%-18% water you only need to increase it 2%-3%, so for two cups of honey i am thinking you would only need to add 1 Tbs of water to bring it up around 20%. next time i pick up some raw honey i will have to try it out. if you want to try on a smaller scale it would be 2/3 c honey and 1 tsp water.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2014, 09:04:20 am »
Not all fermented honey is creamed, though the fermented honeys that are sold will tend to be made from high-glucose honeys that otherwise would become very thick/creamy. Totally liquid honey, saps and nectars can ferment, just not as easily.

Creamed honeys are easier to ferment, not because they're creamed, but because in order to become creamy (thick) over time, they must be high in glucose, and glucose ferments more readily (thus, fermented honeys have a higher fructose/glucose ratio than unfermented, and they also tend to be more liquidy than the unfermented original honey).

Real Raw's unfermented honey is creamy and quite firm, but their fermented honey is quite soft and becomes even more liquidy over time as it slowly ferments further.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline NuclearKnight

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2016, 10:43:50 pm »
My method is a cup of water with a quarter of a cup of honey in a jar shaken until the honey dissolves. One jar is fizzy and bubbly like soda and delicious with no alcohol taste or smell, the other bland with a raw egg white consistency. Dariorpl was right about stirring the jar frequently to encourage yeast and prevent mold.

Offline Apani

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2018, 03:28:45 am »
I put some crystallized honey in a yogurt maker (a device which warms your jars).

I remove it a few hours later, and it's liquid.

I will see if it shows any visible signs of fermentation later on.

Offline Cubo

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Re: How ferment raw honey? (Not Mead)
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2018, 10:54:32 am »
I was given a jar of local honey for Christmas.  Upon closer inspection at home it looked like it was solidifying so I decided to put the jar in some lukewarm water to make it turn liquid again.  When I twisted opened the jar it popped at me and I saw a slight foam on top of the honey.  I thought it might have fermented so I tasted it.  OMG how tasty it is. I took a spoon of it to eat and put the jar in the warm water bath.  When I returned for a second table spoonful 5 min later I decided to not heat it up for fear I would ruin its lovely taste.  I want to replicate this and make more.  “Regular” honey will never be my first choice any more.  I have no idea what the water content is for the honey or where it had been kept before being gifted to me.  Any advice on how to care for this prize possession or how to duplicate it with another jar of raw honey?