Author Topic: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods  (Read 19638 times)

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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2012, 05:26:45 pm »
Cooked animal fat does indeed have the highest load of heat-created toxins derived from cooking, so is the absolutely worst, unhealthiest type of food to eat. Raw animal fat is, however, the healthiest type of food to eat. Cordain is only referring to cooked animal fat since he is a cooked-palaeodiet guru.
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2012, 07:39:21 pm »
Raw animal fat is, however, the healthiest type of food to eat.

So cooked animal fat is out. But why is raw animal fat the healthiest? What nutrients does it have?

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2012, 08:34:45 pm »
So cooked animal fat is out. But why is raw animal fat the healthiest? What nutrients does it have?
It is more concentrated a nutrient than protein or carbs, and with more complex nutrients within it. Raw marrow, for example, has stem-cells in it.
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2012, 08:51:49 pm »
It is more concentrated a nutrient than protein or carbs, and with more complex nutrients within it. Raw marrow, for example, has stem-cells in it.

Does raw animal fat contain many vitamins and minerals? And what is the benefit of stem-cells?

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #54 on: May 07, 2012, 01:52:31 am »
Will someone summarize for me the reason there is so much emphasis on raw animal fat in this forum? In Cordain's latest book, it appears he cautions against too much animal fat (less than 15% of diet), implying it may lead to heart problems etc..
Dr. Cordain never recommended keeping all animal fat to less than 15% of a diet. Could it be his early comments on saturated fats that you're referring to?:
Quote
This data suggests that the normal dietary intake of saturated fatty acids that conditioned our species genome likely fell between 10 to 15% of total energy, and that values lower than 10% or higher than 15% would have been the exception.

Loren Cordain, Ph.D.
Issue: # 2009 - 16 /April 17, 2009
That is actually higher than the 11% saturated fat that Americans reportedly currently eat (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/04/cordain-on-saturated-fat.html).

Plus, Cordain has actually since moderated his tone on saturated fats:
Quote
(M)y new advice for you is this: "If you are faithful to the basic principles of the Paleo Diet, consumption of saturated fats within the range of 10 to 15 percent of your daily calories will not increase your risk for heart disease. In fact, the opposite may be true, as new information suggests that elevations in LDL cholesterol may actually reduce systemic inflammation, a potent risk factor for heart disease. Consumption of fatty meats and organs had survival value in an earlier time, because fat provided a lot of energy and organs were rich in nutrients including iron, vitamin A, and the B-vitamins."

~ Loren Cordain, Phd, The Paleo Answer, published Dec 20, 2011
I think it would help further if he replaced his use of the term "lean meats" with something like "quality meats" or "avoid high-heated fats."

As Tyler hinted at, increasingly scientists are coming to recognize that it's excess oxidized LDL in the bloodstream that's the problem in heart disease, not eating saturated fats of all types, and oxidized serum LDL does not come from eating raw or low-cooked saturated fats.

Here's some related info to consider:
Quote
More Saturated Fat = Less Coronary Artery Disease!
by Anthony Colpo,
November 9, 2004.
Originally retrieved from LOWCARBPORTAL.COM » Health : Heart/Cholesterol
09 November 2004
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/main-lowcarb-lobby/659922-my-daughter-freaked-me-out-about-sat-fats.html

The latest issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition has just published a study that gives saturated fat-defending heretics like yours truly something to smile about.

Researchers took 235 postmenopausal women with established coronary heart disease and performed coronary angiographies at the start of the study and after a mean follow-up of 3.1 years. A total of 2243 coronary segments were analyzed.

The women were also divided into four categories according to their level of saturated fat intake.

Saturated fats found to be protective

After adjusting for multiple confounders, a higher saturated fat intake was associated with less narrowing of the arteries and less progression of coronary atherosclerosis during follow-up. Compared with a 0.22-mm narrowing in the lowest quartile of intake, there was a 0.10-mm narrowing in the second quartile, a 0.07-mm narrowing in the third quartile, and no narrowing in the fourth and highest quartile of saturated fat intake.

Carbohydrates found to be harmful

The protective association of saturated fat was more pronounced among women with lower monounsaturated fat and higher carbohydrate intakes. Carbohydrate intake was positively associated with atherosclerotic progression, particularly when the glycemic index was high.

Polyunsaturates found to be harmful

Polyunsaturated fat intake was positively associated with progression of atherosclerosis when replacing other fats, but monounsaturated and total fat intakes were not associated with progression.

The bottom line

The authors concluded: "In postmenopausal women with relatively low total fat intake, a greater saturated fat intake is associated with less progression of coronary atherosclerosis, whereas carbohydrate intake is associated with a greater progression".

"Our findings are not consistent with the hypothesis…that saturated fat intake increases atherosclerotic progression in postmenopausal women but instead suggest that saturated fat intake may reduce such progression, especially when monounsaturated fat intake is low or carbohydrate intake is high. Our findings also suggest that carbohydrate intake may increase atherosclerotic progression, especially when refined carbohydrates replace saturated or monounsaturated fats".

Mere association or direct causation?

After examining the baseline data for the study subjects, it becomes apparent that the results can not be explained away by otherwise healthier lifestyles among those eating the most saturated fat; the high saturated fat group, in fact, had the greatest number of current smokers.

Studies like this do not prove causation, but we do know that saturated fatty acids, because of their lack of vulnerable double bonds, are the least susceptible to free radical damage; polyunsaturates are the most vulnerable. We also know that increased carbohydrate consumption, especially of the refined variety, does a sterling job of raising blood sugar and insulin levels, which accelerates glycation, free radical activity, blood clot formation, and arterial smooth muscle cell proliferation.

....

Original source: The Omnivore

Quote
19 March 2004
'Healthy' Diet May Increase Bad Cholesterol
Source: Yahoo

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - There is a plethora of evidence suggesting that low-fat diets, particularly those rich in fruits and vegetables are "healthy." However, in a small study of women, a diet low in fat and high in fruits and vegetables caused an increase in the plasma levels of oxidized LDL cholesterol, the "bad" cholesterol.

This finding was unexpected, Dr. Marja-Leena Silaste from the University of Oulu in Finland and colleagues write in Arteriosclerosis, Thrombosis. and Vascular Biology: Journal of the American Heart Association....
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 04:08:52 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2012, 02:26:52 am »
While I agree that oxidised animal fats derived from cooking  are a problem, it has been mentioned in one study that the real reason for the harm caused by saturated fats was not due to the saturated fats per se, but due to the glycotoxins present in those cooked SFA-rich foods:-

http://www.pnas.org/content/94/12/6474.long
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2012, 02:37:37 am »
Yup, and I'm no expert on AGEs, so maybe it's coincidence, but I do find it interesting that some of the foods highest in reported AGEs are those fatty animal foods that are high heated and/or oxygenated in other ways, such as whipping; apparently especially when the food includes plentiful fats that are easily oxidized, such as omega 6 PUFAs. For example, crispy-fried bacon (conventional bacon tends to be high in omega 6) and whipped pasteurized butter.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline CarnivorousApe

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2012, 08:11:41 am »
So cooked animal fat is out. But why is raw animal fat the healthiest? What nutrients does it have?

Raw animal fat was a staple for the early humans. Actually ape became a human when it managed to find large mammal carcass and smash its bones with a stone to get bone marrow. Other animals couldn't do this.

Another distinctive feature of our ancestors was their ability to dig for roots with a stick.

So our body evolved to utilize these types of food in the best way possible.


Offline Joy2012

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2012, 04:53:06 pm »
Right, Cordain is talking about saturated fat under 15%, not total fat of diet.


"Advanced glycation end products (AGEs), also known
as glycotoxins, are a diverse group of highly oxidant
compounds with pathogenic significance in diabetes
and in several other chronic diseases. AGEs are
created through a nonenzymatic reaction between reducing
sugars and free amino groups of proteins, lipids, or
nucleic acids
."
http://marshfieldceliac.weebly.com/uploads/2/5/5/7/2557865/ada_ages_in_food_reduction1.pdf

 Maybe that is the reason coke/coffee/lead contains little AGEs...because they contain little protein/sugar/lipids.

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2012, 05:55:46 pm »
Does raw animal fat contain many vitamins and minerals? And what is the benefit of stem-cells?
Plenty. I'm not sure re stem-cells utility as these are presumably wholly digested in the stomach.
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2012, 01:55:24 pm »
Thanks, Tyler.

Offline razo999

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Re: Loren Cordain on AGE contents in foods
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2018, 05:32:16 am »
It is well-known, ever since we were kids, that bananas give us our daily need of potassium (440 mg). According to Colorado State University Extension, potassium is necessary for good nerve and muscle function as well as for maintaining a healthy balance of fluids in the body. The potassium in bananas can help prevent muscle cramps after exercise. That’s not all, for besides  potassium, bananas contain Vitamin C and Vitamin B-6.