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Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: svrn on April 09, 2013, 02:27:38 am

Title: plastic containers
Post by: svrn on April 09, 2013, 02:27:38 am
What are peoples views on how bad having food in plastic constainers is due to phytoestrogen.

I hear the softer plastics are worse because they release plastics more easily into the food.

Id also imagine that certain foods are worse to keep in pastic than others. Fats would be worse than something like honey because fats are more absorbent and milk would be worse than something like butter because its so liquid that it moves around all of the time in the bottle and a lot more of the milks surface area touches plastic whereas butter is more solid and a lot less of the surface area touches the plastic than milk.

This is why i always take my milk out of the plastic but am more lazy about other things.
Title: Re: plastic containers
Post by: PaleoPhil on April 09, 2013, 06:16:30 am
In this thread I shared a report re: plastic containers promoting more of the bad bacteria:

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/does-covering-meat-cause-'bad'-bacteria-to-grow/msg75669/#msg75669 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/does-covering-meat-cause-'bad'-bacteria-to-grow/msg75669/#msg75669)
Title: Re: plastic containers
Post by: eveheart on April 09, 2013, 08:29:00 am
In this thread I shared a report re: plastic containers promoting more of the bad bacteria:

That reminds me of an incident with my cat, who had "cat acne" on her chin years ago. THe cause was bacteria on her plastic water dish, bacteria which was not removed when I washed her dish. As soon as I replaced her plastic water dish with a glass dish, her acne cleared up.
Title: Re: plastic containers
Post by: svrn on April 10, 2013, 06:29:15 am
yes i notice that meat gets smelly very fast in plastic.

im more talking about the dangers of phytoestrogens now though.
Title: Re: plastic containers
Post by: PaleoPhil on April 10, 2013, 07:11:24 am
Thanks for sharing the interesting observation, Eveheart.

Re: phytoestrogens, research was coincidentally just reported as finding that BPA is "present in far too small amounts in most people's bodies to cause suspected health effects" (Read more here: PNNL analyses: Is risk from plastic water bottles inflated? http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/03/31/2336664/pnnl-research-tests-bpa-risks.html#storylink=cpy (http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/03/31/2336664/pnnl-research-tests-bpa-risks.html#storylink=cpy,)), but that finding doesn't persuade me in the slightest to start using plastic more because I think that the factors of increased spoilage, inferior taste and smell, promotion of bad bacteria and inhibiting of good bacteria, and the fact that fat is difficult to clean off of plastic containers (it apparently has to do with similar molecular structure--http://www.thekitchn.com/tip-store-bacon-fat-in-glass-n-138153) are more than enough reason to minimize use of plastic with food. While rare, increased risk of death via botulism, which has become a significant problem with Eskimos who store raw meats long term in plastic, certainly gets my attention.

I find the problems to be significantly less in the freezer than the fridge, so I do leave frozen foods in the plastic they come in and use plastic storage bags quite a lot in the freezer. Whereas with the fridge, I try not to leave food in sealed plastic for more than a day or two. If it's going to be there longer, I transfer it to a glass, metal or paper container (note: some foods don't do well in metal), or leave it exposed.

At any rate, for me, the default position is to not use food containers that haven't been used extensively for centuries or more in their current basic form/substance. The jury is out on inventions with potential significant downsides until thoroughly proven. I try to mainly use the more tried and true things and let others be the guinea pigs. :D When it comes to tried-and-true things that I haven't tried myself and may have gone out of fashion for no good reason, I become much more the adventurous mad scientist. -d
Title: Re: plastic containers
Post by: svrn on April 10, 2013, 01:19:53 pm
Im sorry but articles like that are the same as flouride apologist articles.
Just another mainstream media outlet trying to convince us that the bioweapons designed to kill (sterilize in this case) us are not that  bad or actually good for us.

just look into the history of bpa. they knew in the 19th century that it was a very powerful phytoestrogen and it was actually designed for that purpose.

and glaxosmithkline didnt just use bpa to "sterilize" theyr baby food bottles out of coincidence. They knew they wanted to sterilize the babies.
Title: Re: plastic containers
Post by: PaleoPhil on April 11, 2013, 07:17:33 am
Like I said, that article doesn't persuade me in the slightest and I assume the worst about BPA until it's proven conclusively safe, which I doubt will ever truly happen (though some probably claim that already), and I don't need BPA as a reason to not use plastics anyway--there are plenty more reasons. So I act like what you say is true, regardless of whether there is strong evidence for it or not. I try to minimize use of all types of plastic food containers when there are good alternatives, not just BPA-plastics, and I've gradually been replacing plastic containers and kitchen utensils with nonplastic alternatives in recent years, starting before I became aware of the BPA scare.

The plastics industry has responded by selling "BPA-free" plastics, which I doubt are that much better. They've actually made a lot of money off of the BPA scare, as many people threw out BPA-plastic items before they intended to and bought brand new plastic replacements. I've noticed lots of people focusing on BPA and buying the BPA-free plastics when they would probably be better off buying non-plastic items (though I see more of those too, thankfully). They are bumbling along from one error to another because of their focus on the details and their missing of broader and more fundamental elements. Who knows what other toxins scientists will some day discover in the BPA-free plastics. I doubt that there's any part of plastic that isn't toxic to some degree.
Title: Re: plastic containers
Post by: svrn on April 12, 2013, 08:35:09 am
Yes I agree. I am sure eery plastic has asome phytoestrogens in it.

I try to avoid any plastic as much as I can
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