Author Topic: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?  (Read 36876 times)

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carnivore

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2010, 02:05:22 am »
A single small-bowl-size amount of whole fruit was sufficient to give me acne breakout, dry skin, dental scum, morning breath, etc. the next day. That may be hard to believe for those who are less sensitive to carbs than me, but it was my experience. I tried a fruit-oriented diet at SuperInfinity's suggestion and found it to be very harmful to me. I've read other people's similar experiences with Wai and various frugivorous-oriented diets on the Internet in the past, so I'm apparently not the only one. Even GS reported that he's doing better on his current diet than he did on Wai. I'm not saying, though, that my experience necessarily applies to anyone else. Just sharing my experience that even whole fruits have negative effects on me. Even small amounts of any plant carbs give me acne breakouts and other symptoms and I've been able to repeat this experiment in myself numerous times.

I'm hoping that I'll be able to handle wild berries better, as I would like to be able to eat some occasional berries without annoying symptoms, but it's probably mostly wishful thinking on my part.

In Wai diet, fruits are always buffered with fat. What was precisely your diet when you had acne breakout ?

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2010, 02:35:39 am »
I did eat plenty of fat when I was doing SuperInfinity's experiment. No doubt 811ers would make a claim opposite to yours that the reason I developed acne was that I was eating too much fat. My rather frustrating experience with promoters of plant foods has been, that no matter what combination of foods you may follow, if you have problems with a plant-oriented diet they will say you did something wrong or that you are just detoxing and will never admit that most plant foods could be a problem for some people. There are numerous examples of this on the vegan forums, with people being persuaded to continue eating lots of plant foods and avoid animal foods even as their health deteriorates. SuperInfinity claimed his diet was fantastic and I happened to have most of his recommended foods on hand, so I followed his suggestion of eating more of them. Yet my problems worsened. I don't remember every detail of it and I don't care as it's irrelevant. The important thing is that raw carnivore completely cleared up my acne without the use of zinc supplements for the first time since I developed acne as a senior in high school and eating whole fruits--with no other change in my diet whatsoever--brings it back.

I occasionally cheat and when I eat any carb-containing food, whether it be fresh whole fruit, wine, raw honey, etc., I experience numerous mild symptoms that I can now recognize as being related because raw carnivore has cleared them up so that even subtle changes are noticeable. Why would I want to eat lots more plant carbs like on a Wai diet very high in fruits to keep acne away after discovering that fruits trigger my acne and when only a plant-carb-free diet has succeeded in clearing things up? Especially when one of our former Wai dieters, GS found it to be a detrimental diet for him? That would be like suggesting to a person with poor, uncorrectable vision who was injured in a motorcycle crash as a result of his poor vision to stop wearing helmets next time instead of to stop riding motorcycles. Some people have good vision and can ride motorcycles relatively safely. Others cannot. Experience suggests that I'm one of the ones who cannot.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 02:55:35 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

carnivore

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2010, 03:05:00 am »
I did eat plenty of fat when I was doing SuperInfinity's experiment. No doubt 811ers would make a claim opposite to yours that the reason I developed acne was that I was eating too much fat. My rather frustrating experience with promoters of plant foods has been, that no matter what combination of foods you may follow, if you have problems with a plant-oriented diet they will say you did something wrong or that you are just detoxing and will never admit that most plant foods could be a problem for some people. There are numerous examples of this on the vegan forums, with people being persuaded to continue eating lots of plant foods and avoid animal foods even as their health deteriorates. SuperInfinity claimed his diet was fantastic and I happened to have most of his recommended foods on hand, so I followed his suggestion of eating more of them. Yet my problems worsened. I don't remember every detail of it and I don't care as it's irrelevant. The important thing is that raw carnivore completely cleared up my acne without the use of zinc supplements for the first time since I developed acne as a senior in high school and eating whole fruits--with no other change in my diet whatsoever--brings it back.

I occasionally cheat and when I eat any carb-containing food, whether it be fresh whole fruit, wine, raw honey, etc., I experience numerous mild symptoms that I can now recognize as being related because raw carnivore has cleared them up so that even subtle changes are noticeable. Why would I want to eat lots more plant carbs like on an extreme Wai diet when only a plant-carb-free diet has succeeded in clearing things up? Especially when one of our former Wai dieters, GS found it to be a detrimental diet for him? That would be like suggesting to a person with poor, uncorrectable vision who was injured in a motorcycle crash as a result of his poor vision to stop wearing helmets next time instead of to stop riding motorcycles. Some people have good vision and can ride motorcycles relatively safely. Others cannot. Experience suggests that I'm one of the ones who cannot.

I try not to persuade you to eat more fruits or adopt Wai diet, I just want to be sure that it is indeed the fruits that give you acne, and not something else. Anyway, you didn't follow Wai Diet, so you can't judge this diet.

I also would be curious to know if GS strictly follows Wai diet (especially eating fat with fruits on several small meals a day and not overeating protein). Often people pretend that a diet does not work while they did not follow it strictly.
I can understand that carb-containing food is problematic, as it is also the case for me. I can't digest fibers properly.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 03:12:34 am by carnivore »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2010, 03:29:59 am »
...you didn't follow Wai Diet, so you can't judge this diet.
I appreciate your trying to help, but the Wai diet contains fruits, doesn't it? Fruits, even when eaten with fats (as I explained), trigger acne outbreaks in me (though who knows, maybe I'll become less sensitive in the longer run). I also tried to explain that I have found many claims of magical combinations of foods to offset their harmful effects, to not work in my experience, nor in that of countless other people, so I am skeptical of any claim that the Wai diet would clear existing acne in carb-sensitive people like me, rather than trigger it. I could be wrong, but given my experience with fruits and GS's with Wai, it's not a diet I would be remotely interested in. Like Dr. Harris, I also don't consider it Paleo, but that's another story. I'll give this for the Wai diet--it's at least vastly superior to an 811 diet.

None of us has tried every single diet. We make judgments based on the foods we have tried. I don't know exactly how I'd fare on Wai, but given that even a small amount of fruit triggers new outbreaks of acne in me, it isn't rocket science to judge that a heavy-fruit diet like Wai would cause even more acne in me. So based on my experience and some limited knowledge of human metabolic and immune system function, I do judge that diet, as does Dr. Harris (another somewhat carb sensitive person, BTW) despite his also never having followed it to the letter--though he knows much more about human biology than I do, so he is better qualified to judge it. If I had reason to believe that fruits were not actually a problem for me, that the Wai diet might somehow make sense for me, and if I had never tried anything similar to it, then I would reserve judgment before trying the explicit Wai diet. But that none of those factors apply in my situation.

Let's try it from a different angle. If someone like Tyler says to me that he doesn't do well on even small amounts of raw dairy, I don't then suggest that he increase his intake of raw dairy or offset it with special food combinations to overcome that problem. I figure he's probably wise in avoiding it. If he really wanted to eat dairy anyway and found that it was only lactose that was the issue, then he might be able to eat raw cultured butter. Similarly, I'm trying to find out if I can handle small amounts of certain fruits. For example, maybe it's just fructose that's the issue for me, so maybe I could handle some low-fructose fruits, but I wouldn't go wild and eat a ton of fruits and try to offset the damage with other Wai diet foods--especially given that I find I fare better on grassfed animal and seafood fats than I do on the olive oil of the Wai diet.

Quote
I also would be curious to know if GS strictly follows Wai diet (especially eating fat with fruits on several small meals a day and not overeating protein).
I can understand that carb-containing food is problematic, as it is also the case for me. I can't digest fibers properly.
He doesn't follow it now. He said he used to. As I understand it, he still eats plentiful fruits, but he found that adding raw meats to his diet was beneficial. He can correct me if I err.

If all carb-containing foods are also a problem for you, then I would never dream of suggesting that the Wai diet might clear up acne in you, even if you had never tried it. I suspect that the main reason it clears up acne in some people is because it eliminates some well-known triggers of acne like gluten-containing foods. For a carb-sensitive person like me, eliminating gluten was a great help but it didn't clear up the acne fully, whereas eliminating all carbs did.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 03:44:57 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline miles

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2010, 04:17:26 am »
I have the same as you, Paleophil. If you were physically active, you'd notice that at the same time as you get the acne, you'd start to get pains in your muscles too; as they're both caused by inflammation.
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carnivore

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2010, 04:37:14 am »
I appreciate your trying to help, but the Wai diet contains fruits, doesn't it? Fruits, even when eaten with fats (as I explained), trigger acne outbreaks in me (though who knows, maybe I'll become less sensitive in the longer run). I also tried to explain that I have found many claims of magical combinations of foods to offset their harmful effects, to not work in my experience, nor in that of countless other people, so I am skeptical of any claim that the Wai diet would clear existing acne in carb-sensitive people like me, rather than trigger it. I could be wrong, but given my experience with fruits and GS's with Wai, it's not a diet I would be remotely interested in. Like Dr. Harris, I also don't consider it Paleo, but that's another story. I'll give this for the Wai diet--it's at least vastly superior to an 811 diet.

None of us has tried every single diet. We make judgments based on the foods we have tried. I don't know exactly how I'd fare on Wai, but given that even a small amount of fruit triggers new outbreaks of acne in me, it isn't rocket science to judge that a heavy-fruit diet like Wai would cause even more acne in me. So based on my experience and some limited knowledge of human metabolic and immune system function, I do judge that diet, as does Dr. Harris (another somewhat carb sensitive person, BTW) despite his also never having followed it to the letter--though he knows much more about human biology than I do, so he is better qualified to judge it. If I had reason to believe that fruits were not actually a problem for me, that the Wai diet might somehow make sense for me, and if I had never tried anything similar to it, then I would reserve judgment before trying the explicit Wai diet. But that none of those factors apply in my situation.

Let's try it from a different angle. If someone like Tyler says to me that he doesn't do well on even small amounts of raw dairy, I don't then suggest that he increase his intake of raw dairy or offset it with special food combinations to overcome that problem. I figure he's probably wise in avoiding it. If he really wanted to eat dairy anyway and found that it was only lactose that was the issue, then he might be able to eat raw cultured butter. Similarly, I'm trying to find out if I can handle small amounts of certain fruits. For example, maybe it's just fructose that's the issue for me, so maybe I could handle some low-fructose fruits, but I wouldn't go wild and eat a ton of fruits and try to offset the damage with other Wai diet foods--especially given that I find I fare better on grassfed animal and seafood fats than I do on the olive oil of the Wai diet.
He doesn't follow it now. He said he used to. As I understand it, he still eats plentiful fruits, but he found that adding raw meats to his diet was beneficial. He can correct me if I err.

If all carb-containing foods are also a problem for you, then I would never dream of suggesting that the Wai diet might clear up acne in you, even if you had never tried it. I suspect that the main reason it clears up acne in some people is because it eliminates some well-known triggers of acne like gluten-containing foods. For a carb-sensitive person like me, eliminating gluten was a great help but it didn't clear up the acne fully, whereas eliminating all carbs did.

Well, GS apparently did not really do the Wai Diet :

"I used to do exclusive wai for 2 months, but not the eating schedule.
Call me lazy.  I just want a few meals a day.
I added raw beef and cooked pork because I needed variety, it was getting pretty boring just limited to raw egg yolks and raw fish."

And raw meat is allowed on the Wai Diet.

Your analogy with butter is not relevant because butter is not a paleofood and contains many well-known detrimental components, especially for someone sentivite like TD. So obviously the less the better.

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2010, 06:46:51 am »
I try not to persuade you to eat more fruits or adopt Wai diet, I just want to be sure that it is indeed the fruits that give you acne, and not something else. Anyway, you didn't follow Wai Diet, so you can't judge this diet.

I also would be curious to know if GS strictly follows Wai diet (especially eating fat with fruits on several small meals a day and not overeating protein). Often people pretend that a diet does not work while they did not follow it strictly.
I can understand that carb-containing food is problematic, as it is also the case for me. I can't digest fibers properly.

I did Wai Diet for 3 months.  It felt good after being malnourished on 2 months of fruitarian.  I got bored with just sea food quickly.  I read about Aajonus and Primal Diet.
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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2010, 09:36:19 am »
Fruits is all I can imagine. If they were eaten I'd assume they were eaten as snacks. Found on the ground or low hanging trees while out hunting etc.

Some wild greens maybe as well, though practically all greens are inedible it would be difficult finding the edible kinds in the wild.

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2010, 10:05:22 am »
I just realised that this link might fit into this thread about Paleolithic carbs.

It's about the wild fruits of Africa (and some domesticated ones) found there today:

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11879&page=186


carnivore

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2010, 04:10:07 pm »
I did Wai Diet for 3 months.  It felt good after being malnourished on 2 months of fruitarian.  I got bored with just sea food quickly.  I read about Aajonus and Primal Diet.

Isn't it contradictory to ""I used to do exclusive wai for 2 months, but not the eating schedule.
Call me lazy.  I just want a few meals a day. " ?
Did you really do the stuff : eating a bit of fruits with olive oil or nuts every hour or so when you need energy ?
How did you feel during this experience (energy level...) ?

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2010, 05:04:28 pm »
Isn't it contradictory to ""I used to do exclusive wai for 2 months, but not the eating schedule.
Call me lazy.  I just want a few meals a day. " ?
Did you really do the stuff : eating a bit of fruits with olive oil or nuts every hour or so when you need energy ?
How did you feel during this experience (energy level...) ?

Always ate fruits with fat.  I chose egg yolks or coconut meat.  Also did various fishes.

Energy?  I felt really good.

I had just come from 2 months of malnourishing fruitarian.  So I suddenly felt alive!
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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2010, 05:49:40 pm »
I do think one can judge a diet even if one doesn't rigidly do it 100%. I mean gurus prescribe all sorts of ridiculous methods that few, if any, people can emulate in real life. For example, in the 1st edition of WWTL, Aajonus recommended truly vast amounts of food each day, with small meals being eaten practically every hour of each day, and getting up at night to eat etc - which most people can't do as they have to work etc.. When I did PD, I didn't include the raw coconut cream they usually eat nor the veggie-juice. I tried the veggie-juice 3 years later, albeit without the raw dairy, and that didn't help me either, just gave me diarrhea(solid raw veg was fine, though). So, I think I can be a reliable  witness to what the PD is like.
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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2010, 07:17:38 pm »
I do think one can judge a diet even if one doesn't rigidly do it 100%. I mean gurus prescribe all sorts of ridiculous methods that few, if any, people can emulate in real life. For example, in the 1st edition of WWTL, Aajonus recommended truly vast amounts of food each day, with small meals being eaten practically every hour of each day, and getting up at night to eat etc - which most people can't do as they have to work etc.. When I did PD, I didn't include the raw coconut cream they usually eat nor the veggie-juice. I tried the veggie-juice 3 years later, albeit without the raw dairy, and that didn't help me either, just gave me diarrhea(solid raw veg was fine, though). So, I think I can be a reliable  witness to what the PD is like.

Agree regarding silly methods like gorging on dairy, etc. that obviously are unhealthy.
But what about claims that seem extreme (like eating one meal a day, or 10+ small meals a day) ? How can you be sure that they don't work if you don't follow them seriously during enough time to see the outcome ?

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2010, 07:21:21 pm »
Agree regarding silly methods like gorging on dairy, etc. that obviously are unhealthy.
But what about claims that seem extreme (like eating one meal a day, or 10+ small meals a day) ? How can you be sure that they don't work if you don't follow them seriously during enough time to see the outcome ?
  Actually, when I first started the PD, I followed AV's rules re frequent small meals every day to the letter for several months. Did me considerable harm as my digestion was already pretty much shot after years on cooked-meat diets.
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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2010, 08:34:21 pm »
But what about claims that seem extreme (like eating one meal a day, or 10+ small meals a day) ? 
One meal a day is definitely not extreme - it's a good comprimise
Eatinig once every week could be extreme
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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2010, 10:30:15 am »
How many meals a day does Wai advocate anyway? I've seen some wild claims of up to 9 meals a day. I believe it likely that diets that advocate eating many small meals a day do so because they advocate excessive amounts of carby foods like fruit juices, sugary fruits, starches, etc. Some people tend to get hungry pretty quickly after eating carby foods. I think that anything over 3 meals and 1 snack a day is excessive, and less is probably better for people trying to lose or maintain weight.

I agree with Tyler that one can make at least a partial judgment about a diet if one follows it mostly (unless the one or two differences are major). It seems kind of nit-picky to claim that not eating the prescribed # of times means one can't make any judgment.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 10:37:24 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

carnivore

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2010, 02:45:19 pm »
How many meals a day does Wai advocate anyway? I've seen some wild claims of up to 9 meals a day. I believe it likely that diets that advocate eating many small meals a day do so because they advocate excessive amounts of carby foods like fruit juices, sugary fruits, starches, etc. Some people tend to get hungry pretty quickly after eating carby foods. I think that anything over 3 meals and 1 snack a day is excessive, and less is probably better for people trying to lose or maintain weight.

I agree with Tyler that one can make at least a partial judgment about a diet if one follows it mostly (unless the one or two differences are major). It seems kind of nit-picky to claim that not eating the prescribed # of times means one can't make any judgment.

It I remember well, there are no really meals, just several small food intakes spread over the day when the need for energy is felt. It is like grazing, so the exact number of "meals" doe not matter. There is no excessive amount of carbs because the Waidieter eat only when he feels he needs some energy, and stop immediately when the energy is up again. The tiny amount of food does not trigger excessive insulin and BG stays within a normal range. It is the opposite of a carnivorous WOE (one big meal followed by a fast).

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2010, 04:00:20 pm »
I forget his name, but the male partner of Wai, openly says he sips orange juice with added white sugar and olive oil every twenty minutes.  He said that he had to add the sugar because he couldn't get enough calories in without it. 

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #68 on: February 10, 2010, 07:07:08 am »
Grazing?!  :o  Opposite of carnivore?!  :o :o  Sips OJ with white sugar & olive oil every 20 minutes?  :o :o :o  What the heck? The Wai diet is more extremely opposite to my needs than I dreamed. I'd sooner eat my own foot than eat Wai. Please, no one even mention it in the same post as my name.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2010, 08:04:58 am »
Has anyone yet listed paleolithic forms of carbs?

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #70 on: February 10, 2010, 08:28:08 am »
How many meals a day does Wai advocate anyway? I've seen some wild claims of up to 9 meals a day. I believe it likely that diets that advocate eating many small meals a day do so because they advocate excessive amounts of carby foods like fruit juices, sugary fruits, starches, etc. Some people tend to get hungry pretty quickly after eating carby foods. I think that anything over 3 meals and 1 snack a day is excessive, and less is probably better for people trying to lose or maintain weight.

I agree with Tyler that one can make at least a partial judgment about a diet if one follows it mostly (unless the one or two differences are major). It seems kind of nit-picky to claim that not eating the prescribed # of times means one can't make any judgment.

    I really only know from my own experiences.  Whatever I read, well, I don't fully know it till I try it.  

    When I was vegan I had to eat many times per day, or feel like I couldn't be.  Switching to pd, I fully cultured cream and butter (with a drop of unheated honey mixed in), drank celery juice and all in all only ate one fruit per day.  Of course I ate raw meat and lots of raw eggs.  I ate three moderate size meals per day altogether, and never felt like I needed more, but felt satisfied.  Actually, I'll go back to the vegan here for a second, after too long on that I still never felt satisfied but I couldn't eat more than like a bite in a day either.  

    I write this all past tense; because my diet is mixed now.  All I ate since this morning is (all raw) 1 two oz fisheggs, 2 three oz bisonshoulder, 3oz unsalted grassfed hardish cheese, 4 four local eggs, 5 one oz cultured unsalted butter, 6 no water, that's it.  I'm not really sticking with one diet.  I am hoping to see if I can stay away from carbs healthfully.  So far so good I guess, but I might change my mind tomorrow as to what to eat.  I can't tell you.  I've been varying a lot.  
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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #71 on: February 10, 2010, 08:59:12 am »
 All I ate since this morning is (all raw) 1 two oz fisheggs, 2 three oz bisonshoulder, 3oz unsalted grassfed hardish cheese, 4 four local eggs, 5 one oz cultured unsalted butter, 6 no water, that's it.  I'm not really sticking with one diet.  I am hoping to see if I can stay away from carbs healthfully.  So far so good I guess, but I might change my mind tomorrow as to what to eat.  I can't tell you.  I've been varying a lot.  

I tend to it all in one meal, so could not eat tiny bits like that, but if it were all mixed together, it looks reasonable to me. Might taste good too.
Maybe taste even better if you add 5golden rings and a partridge in a pear tree. ;)

Offline RawZi

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #72 on: February 10, 2010, 11:59:10 am »
I tend to it all in one meal, so could not eat tiny bits like that, but if it were all mixed together, it looks reasonable to me. Might taste good too.
Maybe taste even better if you add 5golden rings and a partridge in a pear tree. ;)

    I can tend to be a grazer, especially when I eat small bits or low Vitamin D food.  The butter, fish eggs and cheese taste good together.  Anyway, I'm sure in nature I wouldn't have found all those foods at the same time.  BTW, my hamster ate a good portion of the butter today.  The yolks tasted carby.  Do they have sugar?
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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #73 on: February 10, 2010, 01:12:29 pm »
Has anyone yet listed paleolithic forms of carbs?

Fruits and nuts in the vegetal kingdom.
Liver, seafood, eggs, ... in the animal kingdom.

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Re: What exactly are paleolithic forms of carbs?
« Reply #74 on: February 10, 2010, 01:20:49 pm »
Liver, seafood, eggs, ... in the animal kingdom.

    Which sugars do eggs have?
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin