Author Topic: Worms in my fresh, raw, wild salmon from whole foods--a short video showing them  (Read 47255 times)

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Offline Michael

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I agree with your wise comments, Eric.  Have you experienced any parasite issues since eating RPD?

I've never observed problems from 10 years of eating raw meats but am reluctant to eat raw fish.  I used to eat it a couple of times a week but would always marinate it in lemon juice.  I've had too many issues with it on the few occasions I've eaten it straight raw (oysters, sushi, fresh salmon/tuna).  Like you, I rarely eat fish at all now.

I'm keen to introduce my 15 month old son to more raw animal foods but he is, so far, reluctant to eat any meat.  He enjoys fish cooked in bone broth.  I'm experimenting at the moment with freezing fish for 14 days (to kill parasites), and then serving it dehydrated in cooled broth or with raw butter/egg yolk sauce.  It's a rather convoluted procedure but I'm still conscious of potential parasite issues and certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for infecting him with tapeworms etc!  I pray for the day he starts eating raw meats!

gs, have you ever used any of the herbal worm formulas on your children?  If so, at what age?  I sometimes use a herbal formula using fresh herbal extracts of black walnut, wormwood and cloves but am not sure if it would be wise to give it to my young son if I suspected parasite issues.

bharminder, nice catch!   ;D  Salmon, particularly due to periodically swimming in freshwater, is renowned for carrying tapeworms as I understand it.  Did you identify the worms in your picture?
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Offline bharminder

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Hi Michael, according to this website: http://www.13.waisays.com/fish.htm
Those worms are not able to survive in humans for long and may cause temporary digestive upset. Though I'm not sure what they were

Offline goodsamaritan

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I agree with your wise comments, Eric.  Have you experienced any parasite issues since eating RPD?

I've never observed problems from 10 years of eating raw meats but am reluctant to eat raw fish.  I used to eat it a couple of times a week but would always marinate it in lemon juice.  I've had too many issues with it on the few occasions I've eaten it straight raw (oysters, sushi, fresh salmon/tuna).  Like you, I rarely eat fish at all now.

I'm keen to introduce my 15 month old son to more raw animal foods but he is, so far, reluctant to eat any meat.  He enjoys fish cooked in bone broth.  I'm experimenting at the moment with freezing fish for 14 days (to kill parasites), and then serving it dehydrated in cooled broth or with raw butter/egg yolk sauce.  It's a rather convoluted procedure but I'm still conscious of potential parasite issues and certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for infecting him with tapeworms etc!  I pray for the day he starts eating raw meats!

gs, have you ever used any of the herbal worm formulas on your children?  If so, at what age?  I sometimes use a herbal formula using fresh herbal extracts of black walnut, wormwood and cloves but am not sure if it would be wise to give it to my young son if I suspected parasite issues.

bharminder, nice catch!   ;D  Salmon, particularly due to periodically swimming in freshwater, is renowned for carrying tapeworms as I understand it.  Did you identify the worms in your picture?


LOL, people in my country have the opposite attitude towards meat.  Most Filipinos will eat raw fish but will say no no no to raw land animals.

Yes, I have used herbal dewormers on my children.  Barefoot Herbalist MH and Humaworm for kids.  I've done 30 day programs on all 3 children.  Of course I did it on myself first.  Only then did I do it on my kids.  I keep some barefoot dewormer for emergencies.  It works for amoebas.  Amoeba is very common here.  My wife and my sister in law have benefited from emergency treatment with dewormers for amoeba.

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Offline sabertooth

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amoebas are very common everywhere only most people with strong immune systems can fight it without parasite cleanses. Children often contact them at an early age and quickly develop defences against, for example Montezuma revenge is cause by gut parasites that the south American locals are completely immune to but travelers often fall prey to, but even travelers get over the initial infection and develop some immunity if they aren't already malnourished.

Also amoebas are common in the west but are rarely diagnosed and may be responsible for many chronic illnesses in immune compromised individuals. My son when he was exclusively breastfed would pass these quarter inch black worms in the yellow breast milk waste , I was extremely concerned , but after a few days they disappeared and I only assume he was able to flush them out. My people come from hill country and the old folks said my granny had worms when she was 4 because she wasn't gaining weight, so they gave her the Castor oil treatment along with an herbal remedy. The old ways of parasite cleansing have been forgotten and modern medicine rarely diagnoses parasite infection even though the majority of people get some type of infection throughout there life. Perhaps paleo baby developed a strong immunity to these pest by drinking antibody rich paleo fed breast milk for the first 3 years as well as chewed up meat as the first food, Early exposure often builds the strongest immunity against these invaders.

My 2 year old eats a little red meat and marrow as well as oysters and drinks eggs AV style, she is beautiful and thriving, my 8 month old is eating pea sized chunks of meat and fat along with my homemade formula and she is a complete butterball(they are the hardyest healthyest children I know, no exaggeration)

My three year old boy was born pre paleo so by the time I offered him some Paleo fodder he was already grain adapted so its difficult to get him to eat raw, but he loves rare steak and overeasy eggs with cooked Bacon(cooked Weston price) he does like sushi and I do give him cod liver oil

 I wish you could see my little one grin with delight everytime I give her a small taste of marrow, the key is to give them taste of animal foods before anything else and they will love it, If you wait to long and feed them fruit and vegges first then you will discourage their taste for other foods. My two year old started on raw egg at 6 months(my great grand mother did the same thing, Durring the great depression there were no vitamin enriched factory foods available so she mixed an egg in with raw milk and gave it to all her babies along with cod liver oil.

It is sometimes hard for some to accept what I am doing with the children's diet so I am forced to keep things down low, I hope I can be safe here, but where I live the little Kidd's around look so dumb and sickly and have to go on antibiotics all the time and have allergy's to everything, many have this dull unhealthy complexion, I tears me up so see 2 year old drinking soda pop and eatting candy. Then I look at how my children stand out from that crowd and it gives me the strength to carry on, I let them play in the sun and run along with the chickens and climb in the dog pin, and help me when I had goats, my dogs had worms and the chickens have amoebas and the goats had who knows and I let them run around the small farm and Like the old time farm folk I think exposure to these things builds up a strong immune system, as long as there are no imbalances, and you do hose them off from time to time. But I swear I see the germaphobs Kidd's that are washed in antibacterial agents and doused in sunscreen, just look so poorly when compared to the more robust outdoorsy living kids.
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Offline Michael

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LOL, people in my country have the opposite attitude towards meat.  Most Filipinos will eat raw fish but will say no no no to raw land animals.

Perhaps it's all in my head then gs:)  It's interesting how an understanding of different cultures can sometimes enlighten our own perspectives.  Of course, it could also be considered as a consequence of other matters.  Are the animal husbandry techniques of equal standard between Asia and UK/US?  Is the access to fresh fish an important factor?  Or, is there a case for the argument that Filipinos are more immune/adapted to the fish pathogens than the land animal pathogens and the inverse for (some) Westerners?

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Yes, I have used herbal dewormers on my children. 

Good to know, thanks.

...Perhaps paleo baby developed a strong immunity to these pest by drinking antibody rich paleo fed breast milk for the first 3 years as well as chewed up meat as the first food, Early exposure often builds the strongest immunity against these invaders.

Yes, my thoughts exactly.  As with avoidance of all vaccinations, I believe in building natural resistance/immunity from correct feeding and lifestyle.

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My 2 year old eats a little red meat and marrow as well as oysters and drinks eggs AV style, she is beautiful and thriving, my 8 month old is eating pea sized chunks of meat and fat along with my homemade formula and she is a complete butterball(they are the hardyest healthyest children I know, no exaggeration)

Congratulations sabertooth and thanks for sharing your experiences feeding your children.  That's wonderful to hear.
Unfortunately, it doesn't quite seem to be panning out the same for me.  My son still has no interest in meat despite great efforts at preparing it in all manner of ways.  He has never done so even though it was among the first foods I tried to introduce.  I only hope the amount of cooked fish, bone broths and scrambled eggs he's eaten over the last months hasn't ruined any potential for a RPD in his case!  The difficulty is exasperated, I suppose, by the fact that his mother eats a cooked diet.  Therefore, he was exposed to this in the pre-natal period as well as, perhaps, imitating his mother's eating patterns now.

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It is sometimes hard for some to accept what I am doing with the children's diet so I am forced to keep things down low

Yes, I know exactly what you mean.  From strangers to friends to schools to child classes to grandparents.  It can make life very difficult!  They would all be so much happier if I started filling him with fruit, vegetables, breads, biscuits and all manner of other junk despite the proof of the pudding they see before their very eyes!

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I tears me up so see 2 year old drinking soda pop and eatting candy. Then I look at how my children stand out from that crowd and it gives me the strength to carry on, I let them play in the sun and run along with the chickens and climb in the dog pin, and help me when I had goats

Know you are doing the right thing always sabertooth!  I feel the same.  All around me I see quite obviously sickly, pale children and I fear for their and our human future!  Even though my own son is not eating quite how I would choose, he likewise stands out from the crowd.  We can never go out without strangers stopping us in the street commenting on how handsome he is, what a wonderful tan he has, what incredible large white straight teeth he has, what a delightful temperament he has, what a happy little boy he is etc...  There is no luck involved in this.  As it is for I, it is for you and it is for Delfuego et al.
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Offline Pimativo

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 I have eaten raw fish for over 30 years, and am a sushi chef.
 It is rare, but the possibility of contracting anisakis with raw fresh salmon is not worth the risk.
  Freezing it first will kill anisakis.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisakis

Offline Michael

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences Pimativo.  That's interesting.

How long do you usually freeze the fish?  Do you consider the figure stated by Sally Fallon / Weston Price Foundation of 14 days as accurate and suitable for killing all parasites and their eggs?

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Offline TylerDurden

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Freezing really isn't necessary. Reports of issues with parasites from raw fish in the RVAF diet community  are so rare, involving no real side-effects of note, that it's nothing to worry about. I would accept that cooked-foodists might have issues given their compromised immune-systems etc., but for us it's no big deal. Besides, anisakis is cited as dying in the human gut over time, anyway.
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Offline Michael

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I appreciate your comments TD and am aware that for most people this does not seem to present a problem.  Unfortunately, my own experiences do not reflect this.  Parasites in raw fish/seafood remain a concern to me due, purely, to problems I've experienced with them on any occasion that I've eaten them raw without freezing or marinating.  I appreciate that this may be due to possible remaining personal biological dysfunction such as low stomach acid, imperfect immune system etc.  This may render any problems I experience irrelevant to others but could perhaps serve as a warning that one hat does not fit all in this case.

With my own confidence in the safety of consuming raw fish/seafood somewhat questionable, the matter becomes a larger concern at the moment when deciding what to feed my 16 month old son.  Clearly, I'm not going to feed him something I am not 100% convinced is safe.  In cases such as this freezing becomes a viable consideration. 
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline Gwong

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I got some salmon that also had worms.  I cut it open and saw them squirming around.  I saw some tuna in a store that had a sign that said shushi grade.   I asked them what that meant, and the man told me that shushi grade is fish that had been frozen.  I also checked on the Internet and found this    http://www.sushifaq.com/sushi-sashimi-info/sushi-grade-fish/   

I think everyone already has parasites, especially if you're going to eat raw meat, so I take food grade diatomaceous earth to keep them in check.  If you decide to take diatomaceous earth, make sure it's food grade.   

Offline LePatron7

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 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisakis

I'm reading this article as I eat some wild-caught king salmon I just bought from whole foods.

I always buy pre-frozen fish (it's typically been frozen longer than 2 weeks). If it hasn't been pre-frozen, I freeze it for 2 weeks.

This salmon I'm eating has been previously frozen.

I don't follow the same precautions for grass fed land animals, or eggs.
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Offline van

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interesting to see all the activity so quickly on this thread.  Pacific salmon carry two worms.  ( l have spoken  at least several hours with a doctor specializing in parasites,  she's well informed.  The worms in the photos attach themselves to the stomach lining.  Hence the discomfort.  They can only be taken care of with instruments that go down your throat, or you can let them naturally die off.  They don't reinfect, or lay eggs.  The other more troublesome worm is the fish tape worm.  It can grow up to 25 feet long.  When I used to eat Salmon wild fresh from the pacific, I would blend or chop a million times the fish first, thus destroying the worms.  As you did, you can find them if you put on glasses and have good lighting and carefully go through the fish.  Atlantic salmon doesn't have the same worms, nor does farmed.  And Maybe that's why those like tyler and other europeans say they never have problems with salmon.    All you have to do is freeze till completely frozen.  The whole thing where some say you have to freeze for ten days is wrong.    But, I don't care for frozen foods.

Offline LePatron7

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Van, most of the posts date back oct 2010
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline jessica

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i wouldn't trust meat from whole foods, they have horrible handling practices even by raf standards.  always too much moisture is one thing, and going between being in fresh air and being wrapped in plastic so anaerobic decomposing takes place which is when stuff gets foul not high.  i dont know, i worked for the company for 5 years and definitely think some of their stores are gross, especially the fish and meat departments and prepared foods. not to mention how much of a scam they are :(
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 07:22:02 am by TylerDurden »

Offline LePatron7

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I have a close friend  that works there and gets me 20% off.

Also their grass fed beef comes from a farm I like and visited, white oaks pastures.

I haven't noticed any problems with their meats/fish yet, and I've eaten them high.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 07:18:57 am by TylerDurden »
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline longhairlover

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It sounded like you said that marinating it in lemon juice caused the worms to come out.  Is that what happened?  So could you marinate it in lemon juice for a long time, let the worms come out, and then discard the lemon juice with the worms in it?  I've never done this or seen this before, so I don't know.  I've only read in several different places that marinating fish helps get rid of worms somehow. 

I'm pretty sure that I've had temporary worm infestations before too, from eating fish, and I don't remember what type of fish it was, but I remember it happened the one time when I experimented with cooking the fish lightly so that it was almost raw.  Afterwards, I could actually feel worms crawling in my intestines for a couple of days, and then they went away on their own.  I didn't marinate the fish or do anything to hunt for worms.

I have also read about something called 'candling.'  You hold up a candle, or any kind of light - it was invented back before we had batteries or electric lights - and you hold the light up behind a thinly sliced piece of fish, and you can see the worms through it. 

Offline longhairlover

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I just read something else:

http://seafood.ucdavis.edu/pubs/parasite.htm

"Dry-salting fish, or curing them in a saturated salt brine, for 5-7 days before pickling will kill nematodes and tapeworms. Pickling without salt curing may not destroy some nematodes."

So if you put a bunch of salt on the fish while it's dry, or else leave the fish sitting in salty water, it says this will kill the worms.  You'd have to wash off the salt, and you might not want to be eating a bunch of extra salt on your food.  I wonder if the fish would taste yucky and spoiled after sitting in a bunch of salt water for a week?  Is it at room temperature, or is it in the refrigerator? 

Offline LePatron7

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Fish is the only food I intentionally get frozen, or make sure it's been frozen for 2 weeks to kill parasites. Everything else I'll eat raw - liver, brain, kidney, tongue, heart, muscle meats, eggs.

But for some reason I just feel like salmon is likely to have parasites so I always get it pre-frozen.
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Offline Haai

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Atlantic salmon doesn't have the same worms, nor does farmed.  And Maybe that's why those like tyler and other europeans say they never have problems with salmon.

In The Netherlands if you buy wild salmon it is almost always from the Pacific. Same in England if I remember correctly.
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Ate some monkfish with anisakis on my road trip a few days ago, no stomach discomfort to report yet, will lyk if anything comes of it :-)

Offline MaximilianKohler

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I'm actually switching from raw paleo to cooked paleo because of similar issues.

I passed some worms that I think were tapeworms and I've been getting diarrhea from a wide variety of meats and eggs. I started this diet after reading Aajonus Vonderplanitz's book, but now I think his claims regarding nearly zero risk of issues with bacteria, parasites, and food poisoning are irresponsibly dangerous and bogus.

I think parasites and other food poisoning issues may be why humans started cooking our meat in the first place.

Offline LePatron7

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I'm actually switching from raw paleo to cooked paleo because of similar issues.

I passed some worms that I think were tapeworms and I've been getting diarrhea from a wide variety of meats and eggs. I started this diet after reading Aajonus Vonderplanitz's book, but now I think his claims regarding nearly zero risk of issues with bacteria, parasites, and food poisoning are irresponsibly dangerous and bogus.

I think parasites and other food poisoning issues may be why humans started cooking our meat in the first place.

Not trying to tell you what to do. But most users on the forum experience no problems with parasites. I've been eating raw since the beginning of 2012, and I've never really had any problems with parasites or even food poisoning. In fact, the only time I got food poisoning was when I ate uncleaned eggs. After ordering those same eggs cleaned, I never got diarrhea again. Either way, good luck to you in your health journey whatever you decide.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline cherimoya_kid

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I'm actually switching from raw paleo to cooked paleo because of similar issues.

I passed some worms that I think were tapeworms and I've been getting diarrhea from a wide variety of meats and eggs. I started this diet after reading Aajonus Vonderplanitz's book, but now I think his claims regarding nearly zero risk of issues with bacteria, parasites, and food poisoning are irresponsibly dangerous and bogus.

I think parasites and other food poisoning issues may be why humans started cooking our meat in the first place.

So how is it that other primates eat raw meat safely?  A number of primate species eat raw meat with no problems.

For that matter, thousands of other species are omnivorous, and eat lots of raw meat without problems. Occasionally they may pick up a parasite, but parasites are rarely an issue with saltwater fish, or with grassfed/pastured meats.

Dude, the Japanese have been eating raw meat and fish for centuries.  Dozens of members of this forum have been eating raw meat/fish for many years. You probably are just having some problems with food combining, or eating too much at one time, or drinking too much water after you eat, etc.. There are a number of things that can cause loose stools and digestion issues.

Offline MaximilianKohler

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From what I've heard, wild animals are quite often infected with various parasites.

I don't combine foods and nothing changed in my diet to start all this. I was feeling great, gaining weight, and then I just started getting diarrhea...

All of my symptoms (weight loss, diarrhea, nausea) are symptoms of parasite(tapeworm) infection and/or food poisoning. Not to mention I saw worms in my stool...

Offline Poncho

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Guys, my body shuts down if I eat cooked meat.
Doesn't matter how organic the meat is, if it's cooked Ill be in pain. I can suffer for days from one serving of cooked meat.
I am very weak in the digestive system, so I basically use my body as a testing ground.
Raw meat can not be matched. It is the holy grail of health.
If you're getting worms and whatnot, find better sources.
I even ate 100% raw meat for a few months, nothing else,
my health only improved. Dramatically.

If parasites are inevitable with raw meat, I will gladly take them on.
But so far I can only report a crazy detox and remarkable results.