Author Topic: Geophagy  (Read 3919 times)

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Offline surfsteve

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Geophagy
« on: June 26, 2017, 12:25:09 am »
Geophagy is the practice of eating dirt. Many monkeys and parrots eat clay and no one knows for sure why. It is thought the parrots eat it at the same time poisonous berries are in season to help absorb the toxins. I've eaten a lot of diatomaceous earth and calcium bentonite clay in the past and started eating some again a couple of days ago. I am noticing a slight ache in the kidney area this morning and my weight is up as if I am constipated. Don't ever recall those symptoms from eating clay before. It doesn't feel healthy so I  should probably stop although it could be that the clay is detoxing me like they say and over working my kidneys. I would think I'd be fairly well detoxified already since I been on such a clean diet so it doesn't make sense.




Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 12:30:26 am »
Paleo Foods: CLAY?
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Apparently anthropologists have found that many women crave clay during pregnancy. In most of the Western medical literature it is considered pathological, but:

    Worldwide, clays are used to relieve diarrhea..., detoxify compounds, and provide minerals that are insuficient in the diet. In Africa, this practice is also employed by women seeking to relieve nausea of pregnancy and it can serve to bind toxins that would harm that fetus in this stage. When geophagy continues beyond the early stages of pregnancy, it probably adds important nutrients to the diet, especially calcium, essential for fetal skeletal development and maintenance of blood pressure in pregnancy.

    Anthropologists Andrea Wiley and Sol Katz propose that clay as a source of calcium helps to explain the distribution of geophagy in African populations. Their survey of 60 societies confirms that whee dairying is practiced and calcium is available in the diets of pregnant women, geophagy is less common...

    Given evidence that clay consumption occurs in chimpanzees and may have been practiced by early hominins, it seems to have a long evolutionary history. Certainly most of the sources of calcium sought by pregnant women today (dairy products) were not available to our ancestors and clay consumption may have made the difference between a healthy and unhealthy pregnancy. As with all practices, however, geophagy may have negative consequences, including exposure to pathogens in soil, iron deficiency, and lead poisoning.
http://huntgatherlove.com/content/paleo-foods-clay

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 12:47:19 am »
Eating Earth: Exploring the Mysterious World of Geophagy
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Geophagy has been observed throughout the world – everywhere from sub-Saharan Africa to Europe, Asia to Australia. In the U.S., geophagy has figured into the culture of various indigenous cultures and to the past (and present) of the South, where experts believe native Africans who were brought as slaves introduced the practice.

It’s not just one of collective humanity’s hobby horses either. Scientists have studied geophagy in a host of other mammals as well, including elephants, wolves, and primates. Surely, this common a practice must have some kind of adaptive element?

Quote
Many experts traced the phenomenon to mineral supplementation. In other words, animals and humans ate earth to benefit from the nutrition of it – particularly minerals like calcium and iron. Numerous studies exist attempting to correlate anemia and earth eating. Some show that those who eat earth tend to be more iron deficient, but the earth routinely eaten by some of these groups is actually high in iron.  More questions arise from there. Is something in the earth they eat interfering with iron absorption? Were they already deficient before they started eating earth? Which came first: the chicken or the egg? Moreover, when anemic, geophagy-practicing children in one study were given iron supplementation, they still ate the clay. Is it culture then? Habit? Is it something else?
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/eating-earth-exploring-the-mysterious-world-of-geophagy/

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 12:50:35 am »

Dirt: A Paleo superfood?
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autoimmune conditions such as type 1 diabetes and multiple sclerosis have increased at rates too rapid to be accounted for by changes in our genetics. (5) Many healthcare professionals, research scientists, and epidemiologists are at a loss for why the rates of these inflammatory diseases are increasing on such a steep incline.
Could it be that we’re all just not eating enough dirt?
https://chriskresser.com/dirt-a-paleo-superfood/

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 02:36:49 am »
Some of us have tried eating clay. It does work but it's not a cure-all. I tried eating it and it caused a mild detox, unsurprisingly, the first time or so. After that, it ceased to have a noticable effect on me, so I never bothered afterwards.Might have been  a mistake.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
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Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 04:21:38 am »
Hmm. Maybe I am getting a mild detox right now because I haven't had it in so long. I think I was using diatomaceous earth when I tried the clay before. Seemed to have a mild detox reaction when I first tried that so maybe that's why I didn't originally get it from the clay.

Anyone have any experience with diatomaceous earth? I like them both but stopped using them. Maybe I should a little more often. Primitive man probably ate a lot of dirt that just naturally clung to it after it was slaughtered. If I give my dogs a big chunk of meat outside they will carry it over to the dirt and eat it before they will drop it on the concrete.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 04:34:59 am »
I read about primitive tribes dipping their meat into moistened clay and eating it. I don't know if I would care for it but I suppose it might taste like some sort of a sauce. The whole idea sort of reminds me of fondue. Might have to try that if I get the urge. Clay fondue anyone?

Online sabertooth

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 04:36:14 am »
Ive tried both clay and D.E. in the past...where I do seem to feel positive effects....I think clay and dirt can be good for adsorbing toxins and metabolic waste, and perhaps in balancing gut flora...but they tend to constipate me so I never have made it a regular practice.

Where my diet is so low in plant fiber I think clay and D.E. dry out and become bound up in the gut...where as it may not be an issue for people who consume larger quantities of plant fiber to buffer its adsorbent properties.
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2017, 05:25:51 am »
I wasjust  making some steak tartare for lunch and held back a small handful of the meat to mix into some moistened clay and it was pretty good! It almost tasted better than the steak tartare! The only thing that concerns me is that I might be suffering from a cleansing reaction already so I didn't want to eat too much of it.

What concerns me in the future is that if it gets to be a habit and I eat too much of it. Is the grit from the clay going to wear down my teeth?

Yeah I think the clay did constipate me this time. I wonder if my body will get used to it if I were to do it all the time. I can't get over how good that raw meat tasted with the clay. It doesn't taste that good on it's own but the two flavors seem to go together really well!

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2017, 05:40:05 am »
I did a google search about dipping raw meat into clay and all that came up was a link about doing it for dogs.

http://www.moesmeats.com/blog/2017/montmorillonite-raw-meat-dogs/

It talked about using Azomite instead of calcium bentonite clay. I think I have some of that around. I'm going to have to take a look in my storage. It's very good for growing plants and supposedly contains a lot of minerals. The thought of eating it never even crossed my mind. Until now!

Offline surfsteve

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Anyone tried eating Azomite?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2017, 07:05:36 am »
After reading my last article about putting Azomite clay into dog food I became interested and found my old batch I had in storage. I tried hydrating it in water but it doesn't hydrate like Bentonite clay. It's more like Diatomaceous earth. I also found my DE and my old dehydrator that must be over 20 years old and the plastic was cracked and brittle.

When I hydrated the Azomite dirt particles floated to the top. They must have been from scooping the Azomite with my bear hands after using them to mix it into the soil. I strained it through a paper towel and lost half of it trying to get it clean. I took a sip of the hydrated rock dust and can still feel the sharp taste it left on my tongue.

I did a google search about eating Azomite and only found one article. There was nothing in the article but quite a bit in the comments which I will paste below. One person claimed they ate a teaspoon a day. Another claimed they lived near the Azomite dealer and met him, who claimed he and all his children ate it every day and appeared to be in excellent health. One person claimed it had over 6 PPM of lead but the lead was rendered harmless from all the calcium that was in it. I wonder if lead combines with calcium the way it does with fluoride rendering it nearly a thousand times less harmful in it's organic natural form.

As long as I don't get sick from what I ate already I'll try increasing the amount later and if I like it I will have to break down and buy a fresh batch that's not contaminated with soil from me gardening.

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Primal Palate
5 years 11 months ago

I’ve been eating dirt for over a year now.
It’s called Azomite and has ALL minerals and trace minerals present in the correct ratio. It’s being supplemented for animals fed grains, legumes or a pasture deficient in soil minerals. It counteracts the effects of high phosphorus in a high grain,legume diet and is given to most sport horses so they don’t break a leg when stumbling.
It makes hair and nails grow twice as fast and super strong. It also counters the effects of foods that are acidic forming. Weak poultry legs quickly recover to their full strength and chicken yolks end up more orange with an egg that has a hard, thick shell.
When thrown out into the garden everything grows twice as fast and twice as thick (weeds, too, just a heads up). My tree gained 2 feet in height this year from supplementing Azomite into the ground. The usual height gain every year is about 1 foot and 2 inches. Also, a bush that has never grown, finally has awoken and gained new branches and new height of 1/2 a foot…after 4 years of not growing.

I highly recommend it. I lick my finger and dip it into a jar of Azomite powder every day with meals.
It is also recommended by the Weston A. Price Foundation.
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Phil
Phil
5 years 11 months ago

Just out of interest,is there any particular grade or type that you get? I eat Celtic Sea Salt, which has plenty of minerals, though I guess in levels not so high as this.
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Primal Palate
Primal Palate
5 years 11 months ago

I bought 4 bags of 44 lbs of Azomite, directly from an Azomite Dealer about 10 miles from my house. I’m not sure if you’d get the exact quality buying online in smaller bags from stores that might call their clay Azomite, but might not be.
I had a really long conversation with my Azomite Dealer, and he assured me that this is completely clean and healthy and all of his life stock + his entire family, children and grandchildren take Azomite daily. This guy was in his mid 60’s with a full set of white hair and a healthy skin you don’t see often in older people. He looked extremely robust and showed no sign of aging other than his white halo.
At the Azomite web site you can find a dealer close to you and read about what Azomite is and does. I’ve checked each mineral and its amount and it’s the exact ratio needed by all life forms. The heavy metals are extremely low AND in their natural form and always have the mineral present that neutralizes that specific metal. Like selenium does mercury for example.
I don’t trust the store bought ‘clays’ because they’re the same ‘clay’ used to drill through rock to get to oil or other natural resources…but they also use chemicals on the drilling machine which end up in the store clay. I believe the store clays are a waste product sold as a health food supplement.

I also use Celtic Sea Salt and Himalayan Rock Salt. Rock Salts get chelated by the body through saturated fats and your own stomach juices. On top of all this I make a weekly bone broth from cattle bones. After simmering knuckle bone for about 24 hours with a spoon full of vinegar, the bone is so soft you can scrape it with your fingernails. This is a good time to scrape more minerals off the bone and make your own bone meal. Mortar and pestle comes in handy 🙂
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Phil
Phil
5 years 11 months ago

Thanks for your reply, Primal Palate. 🙂 Unfortunately,after doing some digging around, it seems like it will be a bit hard to come by where I am (UK). The best I could easily do locally is French Montmorillonite, or Bentonite orginating from Wyoming. I’m not exactly sure how they compare to Azomite.

Glad for the info! 🙂
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james
james
5 years 11 months ago

I have been cycling Azomite for about 7 months now. I usually take a teaspoon before bed with CALM and Arginine powder.
My question has always been dosage as there are so many conflicting reports as to how much to take in order to reap the benefits. What say you regarding dosage?
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SlenderGrok
SlenderGrok
5 years 11 months ago

Also, Azomite isn’t treated in any way like the other commercial clays you might find.
It comes in its raw form, not treated with heat or chemicals.
This is the only clay/limestone that I take. It also makes an excellent skin paste for oily folks with acne.
Some people use it to dry wash their hair. If you’d like to be shampoo free, sprinkle it over your hair, rub into scalp and rinse out with filtered water (no chlorine).
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Phil
Phil
5 years 11 months ago

Thank you, too!
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maurile
maurile
5 years 11 months ago

As soon as I read the article I came to the comments section to see if I’d be the first to mention Azomite. You beat me.

I bought about $10 worth of Azomite a few years ago, and still have plenty left. It’s as reasonably priced as it is minerally rich.
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gman
gman
5 years 11 months ago

I read something earlier in the day that said azomite has lead in it…
Opinions???
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Primal Palate
Primal Palate
5 years 11 months ago

If you’ve ever opened a can of food and eaten it chances are you’ve eaten more lead than you would in a year of consuming 1/2 a teaspoon of azomite a day.
The major exposure of lead to the general population in food is through fruits and grains, according to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, part of the U.S. Public Health Service. Lead in the food chain comes mostly from direct deposit from the air to plants (gasoline and industrial polutants)and from livestock eating soil laced with lead as they eat the plants. The bans on leaded gasoline and paint have reduced exposure (3).

Precautions that can be taken to reduce your exposure to lead in food include, avoiding the use of glazed pottery and pewter dishes to serve or store food, avoiding the storage of beverages in leaded glass decanters, keeping the home clean and as dust free as possible, eating a variety of foods, and eating foods rich in calcium, iron and Vitamin C so your body will absorb less lead from specific food sources that have been exposed to lead.
In another study Calcium greatly reduced the uptake of Lead in Lunge, Blood, Liver, Brain, Skin, Skeleton and Kidneys.

If you’re taking in adequate dietary calcium your body will take up calcium rather than Lead.
The amount of lead in azomite naturally occuring and not coming from pollution is 6.2ppm. The total calcium of an entire scoop of azomite powder is 3.6%. There is a million times more calcium in Azomite than lead making lead uptake almost non existant.
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http://www.marksdailyapple.com/eating-earth-exploring-the-mysterious-world-of-geophagy/

« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 07:14:45 am by surfsteve »

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2017, 08:07:59 am »
Most of the Azomite videos are for feeding plants. I couldn't find any about people eating it but here is one for putting it in animal feed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOd187X8Ybk

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2017, 12:56:42 am »
Here is another link about people eating Azomite and feeding it to their livestock.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/azomite-or-de.631231/

Since my azomite is contaminated with regular soil I ordered a couple of pounds of clean azomite to try and see how it goes. I live in an apartment now so there's no point in ordering a huge sack of it even though it's more than 4 times cheaper unless I plan on taking it for the rest of my life or starting a huge container garden. Unlike clay and diatomaceous earth which absorb minerals and toxins, azomite is supposed to supply minerals and judging on peoples comments of how good it makes them feel and how healthy it makes their animals it's worth a try taking internally.

I can attest myself on how well it makes plants grow and how good it makes vegetables taste but I can only go on other people's words when they talk about taking it internally. I still feel constipated from the clay so I think I'll lay off that for a while and see how it goes with the azomite and hopefully report my findings on this thread to you guys. Perhaps I need it more than someone eating grass fed and organic vegetables and that eating it instead of eating vegetables and animals fed azomite is the next best thing.

Offline surfsteve

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Re High Fluoride in Azomite: Geophagy
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 10:48:28 pm »
According to the links provided Azomite contains 900 PPM of fluorine. It doesn't say the source but it's probably in the form of calcium fluoride.

How can this stuff be good for you if it contains so much fluoride? Very strange because even the Weston Price Foundation advocates taking it internally even though it's not rated for human consumption. I can't believe I was taking that stuff!

http://massamllc.com/newsite/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/AzomiteOre-CertificateofAnalysis.pdf

http://www.nantahala-farm.com/azomite-certificate-of-analysis-s.shtml

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 11:06:10 pm »
Here is the mineral analysis of Redmond Clay, a type of calcium bentonite clay. It contains 18.6 PPM of fluoride according to the link below, which sounds like a lot but is nothing compared to what I discovered about the azomite. I'm having second thoughts about taking this stuff as well. Funny though my back hurt me in the kidney area after I took calcium bentonie clay but the ache subsided a couple of days later when I happened to be taking the azomite which is supposedly very high in fluoride. I don't know for sure if it's related but there's a good chance. Aching and a sore back can be symptoms from fluoride. I also had a terrible workout at the gym on Tuesday. Kinda feel like I will again today.

Maybe there's a good reason people don't normally go around eating dirt! Live and learn I guess!

https://redmond.life/pdfs/RedmondClay_MineralAnalysis.pdf

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2017, 12:39:44 am »
Some of us have tried eating clay. It does work but it's not a cure-all. I tried eating it and it caused a mild detox, unsurprisingly, the first time or so. After that, it ceased to have a noticable effect on me, so I never bothered afterwards.Might have been  a mistake.
Might it have been a toxicity reaction instead of a detox reaction?

I stopped taking both clay and azomite after noticing I was significantly weaker at the gym on Tuesday. I felt stronger on Thursday but was still not back to normal.

I don't know what to make of the fact that azomite makes plants grow so much bigger or the claims it has the same effects on animals. I wish someone had done some longevity studies on it or some experiments on strength.  Just because it makes an animal grow faster doesn't mean it makes it healthier. I do like the way vegetables taste when grown with it though so I'm more perplexed than dead set against it. Same thing with clay. Nothing works better on insect bites than putting clay on them. Very strange!

After reading everything I can on geophagy I think I know less than before I began!

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2017, 12:58:37 am »
It was detox. The definition of  a genuine detox is that one feels slightly better afterwards than before the experience.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
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Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2017, 01:22:52 am »
I noticed my bones aching after taking azomite. Particularly in places where I had broke them. I thought maybe the azomite was healing them but looking back maybe it was the opposite. I have to wonder if feeling better from a detox could be due to an effect similar to weight training in that it tears down the muscles and causes the body to rebuild them stronger then they were before.   

I've never heard of it but isn't it possible the immune system could work the same way?

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 12:09:08 am »
The more I think about it the more I feel that geophagy was practiced during times of malnutrition and scarcity. Azomite being consumed by animals seems to indicate that something is lacking which is why farmers see benefits feeding it to them on their poor diets.

Online sabertooth

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2017, 11:09:46 pm »
I agree, feeding such supplements to either farm animals or humans is only necessary when there is some deficiency in the diet. On an optimal raw paleo diet adding extra dirt to the diet shouldn't be necessary.

The only time ive tried using DE, clay, or other mineral supplements was during times when I was feeling depleted, such as in the summer after working and sweating in the heat for extended periods, especially if I do not have enough fresh blood to drink or fresh seafood...I have always had mixed results using such products, and so was never convinced that supplements offered any benefits which couldn't be attained by obtaining more optimal foods.

Generally speaking the point of the Raw Paleo diet is that you are able to choice from soo many nutritious and satiating foods that supplements are not necessary. Instead of buying concentrated earth products, I encourage eating small amounts of naturally occurring earth...by gardening or foraging for food and eating everything unwashed.

I have noticed some positive effects without any negative side effects from using shilajit, which is a resin composed of organic composted matter harvested from the Himalayan Mountains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Y7o8xzMSQ
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 11:18:14 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2017, 01:31:28 am »
I had totally forgotten about shilajit. I tried it a few years ago. I remember the name had something to do with conquering mountains. At the time I was running up a mountain every day as part of my exercise routine. Seemed like the first time I tried it, it might have made me run up it faster but eventually I ran up slower and slower and stopped using it. Maybe I just took to much.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2017, 01:50:29 am »
Eating sundried clay every so often is, imo, essential on a RVAF diet. Not all the time, obviously, just on rare occasions,  but, even on the most perfect RVAF diet possible, there will always be circumstances where one eats something not right/healthy for one, maybe a  raw oyster affected by the red tide/algae phenomenon or whatever, or maybe one hasn't done enough exercise and the clay might help with some  resulting bodily toxins/wastes that have accumulated etc.. I discount clay in terms of a need for any nutrients, I just see clay as a useful, necessary detoxing susbtance to be used occasionally, perhaps once a year or so for a RVAFer(or more frequently if toxic foods such as cooked foods/poisonous mushrooms etc. are ever consumed).
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Geophagy
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2017, 02:03:35 am »
If I ever felt I had eaten something poisonous, bentonite clay would be the first thing I would turn to. It is the best thing I know of to absorb toxins and all of my neighbors come to my house every time they get bitten or stung by anything to borrow some to put on their affliction. The stuff really works well. Have found nothing that even comes close to being as good for absorbing toxins. That being said I agree with you that it's not something you need to be taking all the time. But when you need it, it is the very best thing there is!

Offline surfsteve

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2nd thoughts on Geophagy
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2017, 01:35:13 am »
Way back near the beginning of this thread I mentioned that my back started hurting after eating clay. After reading about all the different types of clay I came to the conclusion that it was not a good idea to be eating it but today I am having second thoughts. I think maybe the bentonite clay detoxified my body and the back ache came from over working my kidneys from all the stuff that the clay drew out. For now I'm still going to stop eating the clay but I may try it again in the future after I've fully recovered.