Author Topic: I've been experimenting with coffee  (Read 7706 times)

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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I've been experimenting with coffee
« on: November 18, 2015, 11:40:04 am »
I know it's neither raw nor paleo, but I don't drink it every day, I generally only have it 4 or 5 days a week. It used to give me a little acid reflux, but no more. I have noticed that it can drain the adrenals if I'm not careful, but there's a recent study finding that coffee drinkers live longer, and are much less likely to get certain neurological disorders. ADD runs in my family, and it definitely helps me focus.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2015, 02:56:41 pm »
I also noticed the study. When I was very ill in pre-RPD days, I could not help noticing that as soon as I drank coffee some of my nasty hormonal symptoms just disappeared for a half an hour or so. I suppose I should have just bought my own coffee-machine at the time and just served myself 2 cups of coffee an hour, but I believed all that stuff about caffeine addiction and problems with the adrenals as many much older  acquaintances had complained of those 2 very things.

I do not generally consume coffee while fasting as that gives me stomach-issues, but still have a few cups a week. I do not actually need it these days, though, to be honest.
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Offline djr_81

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2015, 01:03:06 am »
Coffee really helped me get through the last couple years. That said I know I personally have issues with it as I get a malaise when I drink it too much. I also get stomach issues when I drink it. It's a nice treat every once in a while but definitely not a good idea for me.

All that said I love Peet's Coffee's dark roasts. The murkier the cup of coffee the better. Milk is coffee just tastes repellant to me now. I think the two combine poorly.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 01:24:58 am »
I nearly always drink it black. It used to cause me stomach issues, but that only happened for a short time.

Offline Brad462

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2015, 02:07:08 am »
You racist!  Hitler also liked black coffee!  Just kidding, I like my coffee too, wish I could stop it but I don't care anymore.
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Offline dariorpl

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2015, 03:20:06 am »
The beans are roasted (burned) and then you're steeping that in boiling hot water so that you can extract all the carcinogens and damaged nutrients. Don't do it.

If you absolutely need caffeine, drink yerba mate tea. You can sun-steep it so it's raw. Or steep it in cold or warm water. Even if you use hot water, like the traditional 55 to 70C (131 to 158F), you're still doing a lot less damage than you do to the nutrients in coffee beans.

I personally prefer to avoid caffeine entirely, even if it comes from a raw source.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 06:39:26 am »
The beans are roasted (burned) and then you're steeping that in boiling hot water so that you can extract all the carcinogens and damaged nutrients. Don't do it.

If you absolutely need caffeine, drink yerba mate tea. You can sun-steep it so it's raw. Or steep it in cold or warm water. Even if you use hot water, like the traditional 55 to 70C (131 to 158F), you're still doing a lot less damage than you do to the nutrients in coffee beans.

I personally prefer to avoid caffeine entirely, even if it comes from a raw source.

I'm going to need you to address the study showing much greater longevity among coffee drinkers. Just because something is cooked doesn't automatically make it horrible and damaging. Do you need a link to the study?

Offline raw-al

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2015, 07:41:21 am »
Love the smell of the stuff but it is like roto-router to me. One cup and off to the can in semi pain in about 1/2 hour. Always been that way. It gives me stomach pains also.

2 bad because it smells so awesome...
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Offline TylerDurden

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2015, 08:08:25 am »
Tyler, that second study was only true for people drinking over 32 oz daily. That's a stupid amount for anyone.  I couldn't get the Forbes page to load.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2015, 08:25:48 am »
The forbes page had this:-

"Steel yourself for the results of a new study that’s making headlines: Those of us under 55 who drink a lot of coffee – more than four cups per day – may be at greater risk of an early death. And not death from heart problems, but death from all causes. The study, from Mayo Clinic Proceedings, followed people for almost two decades, and found that in both sexes, younger people were more likely to die of anything than people who drank less. Though it may sound bleak, the study really just adds to the mishmosh of coffee studies all pointing at different outcomes. And good news remains – many earlier studies have found that heavy coffee consumption is linked to reduced mortality. So the logical advice is still to enjoy your daily ritual if it seems to work for you.

But here’s what the new study found. The team tracked almost 44,000 participants for 17 years, noting how many people died, and of what cause. Lifestyle factors like coffee consumption, diet, exercise, smoking, and weight were taken noted and potential confounders controlled for. It turned out that 2,500 people died during the study period, with men making up over 87% of those deaths.

The headline-worthy results: People under 55 who drank more than 28 cups per week were more likely to die of almost any cause than people who drank less. Women were twice as likely to die from any cause and men were 56% more likely, compared to people who drank less. Even controlling for cigarette smoking, which is generally the big confounder in coffee studies, did not totally eliminate the link."

The above mentioned 4 or more cups of coffee a day. That said, I remember that US coffee is very weak compared to Italian etc., so much so that my aged American friend would drink a dozen cups of coffee a day while travelling around California.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2015, 08:33:32 am »
Sounds like PPL who drink coffee are likely to die early, which is not to say that the coffee is a factor only that coffee appeals to those who die early for whatever reason... IMO
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Offline raw-al

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2015, 08:38:23 am »
The above mentioned 4 or more cups of coffee a day. That said, I remember that US coffee is very weak compared to Italian etc., so much so that my aged American friend would drink a dozen cups of coffee a day while travelling around California.
I have read that American coffee has a much higher level of allowable mycotoxins in it than Euro coffee. Lower standards for importation in the US.

Mycotoxins are a result of beans being shipped on the ocean. The dampness encourages the mould that becomes the toxins. Apparently that is the cause of the hangover from coffee and stomach troubles that it gives me and a lot of PPL.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2015, 08:47:51 am »
Sounds like PPL who drink coffee are likely to die early, which is not to say that the coffee is a factor only that coffee appeals to those who die early for whatever reason... IMO

No, the higher mortality only held true for people drinking over 4 cups daily.

Offline dariorpl

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2015, 09:10:27 am »
I'm going to need you to address the study showing much greater longevity among coffee drinkers. Just because something is cooked doesn't automatically make it horrible and damaging. Do you need a link to the study?

Maybe I'll look at the study later if I have the time. It's not really a subject that interests me a lot, I know the type of stuff I'm gonna find. It's really hard to do one of these studies right. Just like there are studies that claim to show that vaccines work and are safe, but they don't actually show that if you look at the details.

For example, people who get their caffeine from coffee are less likely to be getting it from sodas. Sodas are really bad for you and people consume them in much larger amounts than they do coffee, in order to get the same amount of caffeine. What did the study do to rule out this factor?
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2015, 09:40:53 am »
Maybe I'll look at the study later if I have the time. It's not really a subject that interests me a lot, I know the type of stuff I'm gonna find. It's really hard to do one of these studies right. Just like there are studies that claim to show that vaccines work and are safe, but they don't actually show that if you look at the details.

For example, people who get their caffeine from coffee are less likely to be getting it from sodas. Sodas are really bad for you and people consume them in much larger amounts than they do coffee, in order to get the same amount of caffeine. What did the study do to rule out this factor?

Those are called "confounding factors" or uncontrolled-for variables. I agree, it's extremely difficult to do a real-world study that controls for all of the relevant variables. Extremely. You don't get to dismiss a study like this without at least looking at the abstract, though. Coffee definitely is preventative against certain liver problems, including liver cancer, diabetes, depression, as well as protective against dementia, Parkinson's, etc.. Those effects are not in dispute, so we've already proven that coffee has some benefits.

Offline Ioanna

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2015, 10:44:34 am »
I'm not writing with specifics bc I don't have them at hand, but taking coffee orally is supposed to have a systemic flushing effect, puts the body in fight or flight mode. Maybe in small amounts, but I wouldn't think daily, that does promote longevity?… but to rely on this purging stimulus to stay awake does not sound healthy to me which is what most Americans need to just get their shoes on in the morning. People in my family that know my routine ask how I just get up and go in the morning. I forgot most people aren't able to do that, I guess?

Now coffee enemas are supposed to have the opposite effect on the liver, these are supposedly the longevity credit to coffee… anyone to testify???

I'm with raw-al, never liked the taste, but the smell is wonderful!

dariorpi, I used to love yerba mate!!! I was just a kid, and it was probably with tons of sugar added  :o

I have read that American coffee has a much higher level of allowable mycotoxins in it than Euro coffee. Lower standards for importation in the US.

Mycotoxins are a result of beans being shipped on the ocean. The dampness encourages the mould that becomes the toxins. Apparently that is the cause of the hangover from coffee and stomach troubles that it gives me and a lot of PPL.

That's why we have Bulletproof coffee  ;D

Offline Thoth

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2015, 02:40:43 am »
hahaha what planet did I just read into? I leave for a year or two and come back to boards where the former PaleoNazi reigned with an iron fist, and now the practice of drinking concentrated carcinogens (I like my beans gooey and black and to smell like chocolate cake, vanilla, smoke and more chocolate :) is being openly discussed with only mild scorn via Argentina? lol bravo!

I will say that though I've really appreciated coffee's euphoriant, stimulant, nootropic, and social benefits over the years, I am very wary of anything that taxes the glands/endocrine system in any significant way. Though biological units (body's, regardless of the species) are generally, mindbogglingly brilliant with respect to resilience and such, one unavoidable bit of truth I've learned to recognize over the years is that cause and effect are easily seen with substances and conditions which somehow drastically impact the glands. Nuclear radiation, hormones/disruptors in the food, air, ground and water, stress hormones easily observable with epigenetic and genetic consequences for generations, drugs (laughingly called medicines (maybe by Dr.Mengele?) of the pharma variety, and that doesn't even factor in sound/light/subtle frequencies which all get digested by the system, which add enormously to the variable-soup, leading to the physical manifestation of our actual hormonal state. Balanced hormones are absolutely synonymous with good, physical, foundational health, and can be challenging to achieve in our stimulus/disruptor laden environments, internal and external.. then add to all of that, the delicate hormonal chain reaction through sperm and egg production and gestation, probably good to be a bit paranoid of the fallout of whatever it means to excessively tax the glands.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 02:45:47 am by Thoth »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2015, 04:27:30 am »
Agreed, Thoth. I'm still dealing with the fallout of an adrenal crash this summer that was caffeine-assisted. I'm definitely on the mend, but I have to be careful how hard I push myself when I've had coffee the same day. As long as I skip caffeine 2-3 days weekly, I'm generally fine, though. It's a delicate balance.

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Re: I've been experimenting with coffee
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2015, 04:30:18 am »
And I'm only a Nazi about cooking because people go so easily from cooking food very lightly, which isn't especially harmful, to deep-frying and heavy grilling very easily. Cooking versus raw is an easy line to hold fast to for the weak-minded. Lightly-steamed versus every other cooking method is not as easy a line to stick to, in my opinion.