Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: Löwenherz on June 22, 2013, 05:50:37 pm
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It's my duty to share my very disappointing experiences of the last months with you.
I got massive health problems on my raw paleo low carb diet. At the beginning I felt very energetic, strong, healthy and sometimes even euphoric. Unfortunately things went differently.
What have I eaten?
Mainly fruits, wild game meats and grass fed beef. 100.0% raw. Zero grain fed meat. Zero dairy. Wild fish and seafood 1-2 times per week. Low carb, high animal fat. Main calories came from grass fed beef fat. Carb intake between 0 and 80 grams per day. Round about 75% of the meats were frozen.
What happened?
- I ended up in hospital for the first time in my life.
- massive inflammations in several parts of my body
- gastritis
- sharp pain in my colon
- diarrhea and bloating
- colonoscopies revealed inflammations of the appendix and the whole colon
- lab tests showed high levels of clostridium perfringens
- a colon tumor was found and removed
- huge inflammatory eczemas
- persistent eye infections
- extreme irritability and nervousness
- sometimes heart problems
- impaired glucose tolerance
- dental calculus
I started my raw food journey 13 years ago. Vegan diets as well as high fruit low fat raw paleo diets never caused such inflammations in my body. I believe that the colon tumor was a result of these inflammations. I felt very frustrated when I got the message. Unfortunately a fruit based raw paleo diet is no solution in the long-run. I have already damaged my skin, joints, teeth etc. too much on such a raw food diet. In my case all the inflammations were clearly caused by raw animal fats, beef fat and wild boar fat.
The interesting thing here is that the same fats do not cause inflammation, diarrhea and pain if I eat them cooked.
The inflammations became so aggressive that I needed cortisone. I'm now very slowly recovering on a cooked paleo low carb diet. Cooked vegetables have been very helpful in reducing inflammation. I can't digest raw broccoli and other hard vegetables. They irritate my gi tract. To be honest, I'm nevertheless still not "healed" from the idea of a raw food diet. Because, as we all know, a raw food diet is the way to eternal youth, immortality and paradise. Unfortunately fruits accelerated the aging process of my body like no other substance. Unfortunately raw grass fed animal fats gave me inflammations (Michael Eades has written about this problem), a tumor, eczemas and irritability. Unfortunately my body can't handle raw vegetables...
Good bye!
Löwenherz
-
It's my duty to share my very disappointing experiences of the last months with you.
I got massive health problems on my raw paleo low carb diet. At the beginning I felt very energetic, strong, healthy and sometimes even euphoric. Unfortunately things went differently.
What have I eaten?
Mainly fruits, wild game meats and grass fed beef. 100.0% raw. Zero grain fed meat. Zero dairy. Wild fish and seafood 1-2 times per week. Low carb, high animal fat. Main calories came from grass fed beef fat. Carb intake between 0 and 80 grams per day. Round about 75% of the meats were frozen.
What happened?
- I ended up in hospital for the first time in my life.
- massive inflammations in several parts of my body
- gastritis
- sharp pain in my colon
- diarrhea and bloating
- colonoscopies revealed inflammations of the appendix and the whole colon
- lab tests showed high levels of clostridium perfringens
- a colon tumor was found and removed
- huge inflammatory eczemas
- persistent eye infections
- extreme irritability and nervousness
- sometimes heart problems
- impaired glucose tolerance
- dental calculus
I started my raw food journey 13 years ago. Vegan diets as well as high fruit low fat raw paleo diets never caused such inflammations in my body. I believe that the colon tumor was a result of these inflammations. I felt very frustrated when I got the message. Unfortunately a fruit based raw paleo diet is no solution in the long-run. I have already damaged my skin, joints, teeth etc. too much on such a raw food diet. In my case all the inflammations were clearly caused by raw animal fats, beef fat and wild boar fat.
The interesting thing here is that the same fats do not cause inflammation, diarrhea and pain if I eat them cooked.
The inflammations became so aggressive that I needed cortisone. I'm now very slowly recovering on a cooked paleo low carb diet. Cooked vegetables have been very helpful in reducing inflammation. I can't digest raw broccoli and other hard vegetables. They irritate my gi tract. To be honest, I'm nevertheless still not "healed" from the idea of a raw food diet. Because, as we all know, a raw food diet is the way to eternal youth, immortality and paradise. Unfortunately fruits accelerated the aging process of my body like no other substance. Unfortunately raw grass fed animal fats gave me inflammations (Michael Eades has written about this problem), a tumor, eczemas and irritability. Unfortunately my body can't handle raw vegetables...
Good bye!
Löwenherz
Wow what a story! Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Could you be more detailed about what the root cause of your problems were? I think you mentioned "clostridium?" I think it would help out future RPD'ers.
Did you use salt at any point on your RPDiet? What kind of water did you drink? Did you eat magnesium rich foods? Did you get any calcium? How was your potassium intake, etc. Please be as detailed as possible so we can perhaps find a root cause for your troubles (not necessarily to get you to try again, but for information purposes).
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Sorry to hear about your difficult situation. Thank you for sharing it with us, it's important for people to understand that a 100% raw diet does not automatically translate to 100% perfect health till the day you die.
All the best, I hope you have a quick recovery!
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Thanks for sharing your experience, Lowenherz. We can learn from failures as well as successes. Sorry to hear about the problems and I hope you're doing well now and have found something that works better for you.
It would indeed be helpful if you shared some more details so we can learn, if you don't mind.
What's your height and weight and how many calories/day were you eating? It's difficult to get a sense of a macronutrient and calorie intake based on grams of carbs alone.
Has your carb intake or macronutrient intake ratio changed at all on your new diet?
When did you start raw LC Paleo and why did you try it?
What had your diet been at the time you started LC RP?
How was your health before LC RP and when did the problems with LC RP start?
When do you think the clostridium perfringens infection began and when did you get it treated? Do you suspect a particular source that you got it from?
What were your top 10 staple foods on LC raw Paleo and what are they now on LC cooked Paleo?
What % of your foods do you cook, roughly?
How has your health (symptoms, lab markers, etc., such as how did your reduced inflammation specifically manifest itself?) improved since you started eating cooked foods?
Where did you get raw wild boar fat?
Are you really still drawn to the notion that "a raw food diet is the way to eternal youth, immortality and paradise," or is that a joke?
Would you share the link to where Michael Eades wrote about "raw grass fed animal fats" causing "inflammations"? I've seen him talk about raw plant foods being more inflammatory than cooked plant foods, but not raw grass fed animal fats.
Why do you call your former LC RP diet "fruit based" when you were eating only 0 - 80 g carbs per day? Do you mean that the plant portion of your diet was mostly fruit? Which fruits?
How much of the problem for you do you think was caused by raw animal fats vs. fruits vs. clostridium perfringens?
Could you clarify what you mean about fruit accelerating the aging process of your body like no other substance despite high fruit low fat raw paleo never causing "such inflammations"?
If you prefer, you could PM me your answers. Best of luck with your new approach.
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Domestic fruits don't make me feel so good. What kinds of fruit were you eating?
I think perhaps some people are more adapted to fruit eating than others. Could your diet have been composed of too much meat and not enough organs or marrow? Was your meat frozen or fresh?
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Lowenherz said that 75% of his meats were frozen.
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Lowen....have you had a mineral/vitamin analysis?
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I think the frozen meat might be a big part of the problem.
It also sounds like there might be a vitamin D deficiency. You might want to try supplementing with the Now brand vitamin D for a few days, and see what that does for you.
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I think the frozen meat might be a big part of the problem.
Sorry but that's ridiculous. You certainly will not get colon cancer because of frozen meet! Not even 1%
Stuff like cancer simply happen and that's it, just accept it's normal part of life.
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Dear Löwenherz,
Thank you very much for your honesty! Honesty is rare thing with raw food / raw paleo dieters.
I'm sure you will find a way to solve your health problems!
I'm still eating a 100% raw food diet (since 13 years, omnivore, including seafood, meat, but not much meat, nuts, vegetables, non-acidic fruit, ...) and I'm still fine - better than ever, I guess. Never had any problems with frozen foods. Currently, I'm professionally very active, so not much time to write / read about nutrition.
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P. S.: Would you mind to reveal your age?
Since when have you eaten a (strict) RPD?
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I can't digest raw broccoli and other hard vegetables.
Neither do I. The vegetables I eat rarely are celery, and kamote tops leaves (which I juice), I sometimes drink capsulized raw dried moringa.
How much raw vegetables did you try to pursue?
Carb intake between 0 and 80 grams per day.
I'm not a fan of very low carb myself.
This translates to what amount of fruits? And what fruits?
Lowenherz said that 75% of his meats were frozen.
Aajonus warned about pre-frozen meats.
Mainly fruits, wild game meats and grass fed beef.
What fruits were you on most of the time?
Where did you buy your game meats and grass fed beef? What brand?
Did you eat offal?
clostridium perfringens
I am theorizing you kept your frozen meats in their respective plastic bags.
And those meats in plastic bags you defrosted in their plastic bags.
And kept these meats in plastic in the refrigerator.
And covered them while in the refrigerator?
Eventually maybe the refrigerator is clostridium infested?
How often do you clean out your refrigerator?
This sounds like food poisoning to me.
http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/causes/bacteriaviruses/cperfringens/ (http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/causes/bacteriaviruses/cperfringens/)
Would have been avoided if you expose your raw meats to the air in the refrigerator.
We have here pictures where the raw meat is exposed or hung exposed to the refrigerator air.
Enclosed raw meat builds bad bacteria... exposed raw meats gain good bacteria.
I would have taken tons of probiotics with the diarrhea.
Where do you get your probiotics? Your own high meat? Store bought probiotics? Your own fermentations?
Dental Calculus?
Not enough vitamin K2.
I'm asking these questions so we can learn from your experience.
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This sounds like food poisoning to me.
http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/causes/bacteriaviruses/cperfringens/ (http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/causes/bacteriaviruses/cperfringens/)
To me some of the symptoms sound like food poisoning too.
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Yes it is:
C. perfringens is the third most common cause of food poisoning in the United Kingdom and the United States[2] though it can sometimes be ingested and cause no harm.[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_perfringens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_perfringens)
Interestingly, like all food-borne illnesses, it doesn't sicken everyone equally. Thus, as Antoine Béchamp, Hans Selye and others found, the terrain is also important, not just the pathogens.
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What about environmental factors? Do you live in a city with terrible air quality? Strong electromagnetic fields? Do you avoid toxic chemicals in cleaning and personal care products? Were you stressed? Do you exercise? Sedentary or active job? Were you using any supplements?
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Good bye!
Löwenherz
it's likely none of us are going to get a response. I think this guy is long gone and never coming back.
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it's likely none of us are going to get a response. I think this guy is long gone and never coming back.
and not to be a mindless RPD advocate, but this makes me question his legitimacy towards unbiased dieting. Possible vegan? Idk, I've seen him post in other threads and nothing seemed to be off.
Personally, I wouldn't have waited 3 months to bring up health issues that severe to this forum. That's a long time to be forcing a certain diet that obviously wasn't working for him.
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Personally, I wouldn't have waited 3 months to bring up health issues that severe to this forum. That's a long time to be forcing a certain diet that obviously wasn't working for him.
That's true. I doubt all of those health problems just crept up out of nowhere and hit him all at once.
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My bet is on the "clostridium perfringens" caused by the packing in plastic and keeping in plastic... not airing out the meat. And this was probably done every single day... maybe the refrigerator is full of "clostridium perfringens" then.
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to blame rpd... i wonder if, while racked up in the hospital, he asked what diet type other cancer patients were on? instead of blaming the "diet", maybe blaming "choice of diet" is more appropriate. if raw veggies were an issue, plenty of forum members still indulge in some cooked, or non-raw foods as a means to get proper / better nutrition. carcinogens are floating around inside everyone, regardless of diet or environment. whether those carcinogens take hold, is random. certainly, factors can improve the chances of cell development. if the 1% just didn't happen, there would statistically be no 1%. the poster's change in health is most unfortunate, but i'm sure this all didn't happen overnight. so what steps were taken during development and deterioration to try and rectify the situation?
this sounds more like an attempt to place blame, not take responsibility for the situation... like when a loved one passes on unexpectedly, the remark of "well, if only i had..." is inevitable. i wonder how bad off the poster would have been 10 years earlier if not practicing an rpd...
and yes, i would expect no reply...
best wishes on recovery with modern, western medicine. i'm sure they have the cure...
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And that's just it, if no raw paleo, then what? Vegan? Vegetarian with animal products like cheese, Milk and other non lethal foods? Fruitarian?
I've been down those paths (except vegan) and I never got the same health boosts that those guys claim to have. My best diet was the Slow carb diet but it didn't solve health issues.
It seems unusual to me, someone seeking health, being silent, then coming out of nowhere and leaving, blaming raw meat. I think GS has it. Fridges are made of plastic walls, I'm sure if it started, it cultured really strongly in his fridge.
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And that's just it, if no raw paleo, then what? Vegan? Vegetarian with animal products like cheese, Milk and other non lethal foods? Fruitarian?
I've been down those paths (except vegan) and I never got the same health boosts that those guys claim to have. My best diet was the Slow carb diet but it didn't solve health issues.
It seems unusual to me, someone seeking health, being silent, then coming out of nowhere and leaving, blaming raw meat. I think GS has it. Fridges are made of plastic walls, I'm sure if it started, it cultured really strongly in his fridge.
the middle way and time is always best, I doubt he will want to swing the pendulum too far as it seems he has already experimented with many diets. I hope he tries to stick with paleo, even if cooked, and rely and some supplementation(after proper blood tests) to boost the healing and regenerative processes.
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I hadn't seen this thread because I had just moved to Portugal and had no Internet connection at the time.
Löwenherz had the honesty to tell what happened to him. I wonder how many others former regular posters experienced health problem and just suddenly disappeared from this forum without telling goodbye.
A raw diet is no joke: it took several years, a considerable amount of experimentation and observation to develop a way which is sustainable in the long run. Even now, there are still questions which are not totally and satisfactorily answered.
I just followed the path roughly cleared by the pioneers which I know and who are still in a very good health and even ageing slower than most people after several decades of instinctive raw paleo nutrition, some having seen their so called “incurable disease” cured. But it’s clear that in our modern world we are kind of walking on the crest of a mountain range and it suffice to go a bit sideways down to find it very difficult to climb again to the crest.
I can’t tell why raw thawed food can cause troubles, but since some negative effects have been observed, we never eat anything that had been frozen and thawed. Eating too much meat from mammals, especially domesticated ones, also appear to be dangerous.
I hope Löwenherz has well recovered, and yes, I think it’s wise for him to have gone to cooked paleo. Cooked or mostly cooked paleo may well be safer than a rough individual experiment of a 100% raw paleo diet on an uncleared path in the jungle.
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I'd imagine whats likely is his gut bacterias messed up. Sometimes the only way it can be corrected is fecal transplant.
Humans are really hardy. As long as we have really good gut bacteria, and breathe to the best of our ability, problems are kept at bay even with a very limited range of food. Also what I think is critical is to have a very high nutrient to calorie ratio. Gotta reaaaaally make them count. Some days that ratio needs to be very highly swayed in the nutrients direction (i.e. restricted eating fasting).
Also is mentioned the fact that he doesn't eat vegetables, and only fruits. This seems really wrong to me. This comes back to the "high nutrient versus calories" point once again. Tolerance likely just needed to be built up slowly, and with only certain kinds of vegetables.
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I also see no mention of organs or high meat, which personally have been some of the greatest healing tools for me. Not sure if it would've fixed him, but still helpful. Also, he says raw fat gave inflammation, which is still confusing. I agree with you barefoot, it sounds like a bacteria issue. I know it takes time to build the correct mitochondria for digesting fat.
There are many issues at play I'm sure and looking over his past posts he mentions a lot in passing how cooked meats are better for him than raw. Nobody ever addressed it. I sadly still can't help but question; troll?
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There are many issues at play I'm sure and looking over his past posts he mentions a lot in passing how cooked meats are better for him than raw. Nobody ever addressed it. I sadly still can't help but question; troll?
I don't care if he's a troll. He didn't hang around to let us help him, so I assume he wants a quick fix, instead of getting at the root of the problem. Therefore, who cares what he does?
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His fitness level must also be taken into account. There is no mention of this, and yet it is an extremely critical part of health. A lot of effort (not even so much as time, but effort) needs to be put into it, and in the right ways. Otherwise you're just prone to break down because you're not struggling to get better.
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He's a real person, not a troll: I spoke with him on the phone about a week ago. ;)
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I'd imagine whats likely is his gut bacterias messed up. Sometimes the only way it can be corrected is fecal transplant.
Humans are really hardy. As long as we have really good gut bacteria, and breathe to the best of our ability, problems are kept at bay even with a very limited range of food. Also what I think is critical is to have a very high nutrient to calorie ratio. Gotta reaaaaally make them count. Some days that ratio needs to be very highly swayed in the nutrients direction (i.e. restricted eating fasting).
Also is mentioned the fact that he doesn't eat vegetables, and only fruits. This seems really wrong to me. This comes back to the "high nutrient versus calories" point once again. Tolerance likely just needed to be built up slowly, and with only certain kinds of vegetables.
Animal foods are far more nutritious than plant foods
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I know it takes time to build the correct mitochondria for digesting fat.
What have mitochondria got to do with fat digestion?
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I hope Löwenherz has well recovered, and yes, I think it’s wise for him to have gone to cooked paleo. Cooked or mostly cooked paleo may well be safer than a rough individual experiment of a 100% raw paleo diet on an uncleared path in the jungle.
Are you in favour of cooked foods these days? I noticed your advice to cook trout livers and hearts on another thread.
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No, not at all! But if some food is not all right, it should not be eaten, even more so raw. Do it properly or don’t do it. ;)
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Yes I agree, if isn't good enough to eat raw then it shouldn't be eaten at all.
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Animal foods are far more nutritious than plant foods
They're also very high in calories. You missed my point. In addition to, yes, very nutritious animal foods, you can also accrue a large amount of nutrition and chemicals through extremely low calorie (basically nothing) but highly health preserving vegetables.
The more nutrients you can take in, in the form of whole food, while not jacking up your calories more than they should be, the better. This is how you further lengthen the gap between nutrient intake and energy intake. In this regard, vegetables are a highly valuable food source. I eat pounds of it most days.
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Yes I agree, if isn't good enough to eat raw then it shouldn't be eaten at all.
totally agree with you guys in theory, and trying to get there, but finding carbs so helpful, but i'm not finding many i can eat raw :( ... they go right through me, so to get some carbs taht will stay in me, i've experimented with some steamed or cooked and it works so much better atm. -\
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Have you tried bananas? I find overripe organic bananas (mushy ripe) to be VERY digestible.
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i was afraid to bc gs says they're 'mutant' :D
i did last weekend after reading one of paleophil's post, get a plantain. i'm still waiting for it to get ripe, or overripe.
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What have mitochondria got to do with fat digestion?
I read it in Lex's journal. Maybe he used the word mitochondria instead of bacteria. But he only used mitochondria when referring to fat digestion specifically. I probably assumed too much or misunderstood.
They're also very high in calories. You missed my point. In addition to, yes, very nutritious animal foods, you can also accrue a large amount of nutrition and chemicals through extremely low calorie (basically nothing) but highly health preserving vegetables.
The more nutrients you can take in, in the form of whole food, while not jacking up your calories more than they should be, the better. This is how you further lengthen the gap between nutrient intake and energy intake. In this regard, vegetables are a highly valuable food source. I eat pounds of it most days.
But what about anti-nutrients? What about organ meats? What about mineral balance rather than high numbers; i.e. a 1:1 ratio of calcium-magnesium?
The nutrient density thing seems to me like it has been blown out of the water by the sheer amount of people eating so few veggies on a meat heavy RPD, with health problems declining. That's not to say we don't need them. It's just they are seasonal in the wild and therefore, IMO, should be so for us. We don't get plant matter year-round, in fact we usually only get it about 4-5 months out of the year AT BEST, definitely not in the wild.
Nutrient density seems to be promoted most by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. His recipe of 'Health=nutrients/calories' seems a little in favor of raw veganism. In fact it disregards adequate fueling altogether. He puts all meat (except salmon and a few low-fat white fish) into the category of detrimental to health. He says meat should be a condiment; 10% of your plate size. He puts anti-nutrient rich greens at the top of his health list; wheat grass, spinach, winter squash (not terribly anti-nutrient filled but starches are still being explored), and many others I can't remember right now. I always wondered why we had so many problems with nutrients in my family, we ate so many veggies but still felt lacking. Anti-nutrients explains it all.
The calorie vs. nutrient thing seems a little bogus IMO when dealing with raw foods. Nutrients are great, but like calories, we only need what we need, any excess is damaging. It seems on a raw meat diet you need far fewer nutrients and IMO that's because of that lack of anti-nutrients you are consuming.
He's a real person, not a troll: I spoke with him on the phone about a week ago. ;)
Okay. Fair enough. He's certainly allowed to live his life and chose the way he wants. I won't question it anymore ;)
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They're also very high in calories. You missed my point. In addition to, yes, very nutritious animal foods, you can also accrue a large amount of nutrition and chemicals through extremely low calorie (basically nothing) but highly health preserving vegetables.
The more nutrients you can take in, in the form of whole food, while not jacking up your calories more than they should be, the better. This is how you further lengthen the gap between nutrient intake and energy intake. In this regard, vegetables are a highly valuable food source. I eat pounds of it most days.
Our Paleolithic ancestors almost certainly would have foraged by the laws of optimal foraging theory ie. spend as few calories as possible to obtain as many calories as possible.
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i was afraid to bc gs says they're 'mutant' :D
i did last weekend after reading one of paleophil's post, get a plantain. i'm still waiting for it to get ripe, or overripe.
Plantains are one of the best varieties of bananas, very fulfilling. One only? That is a very tiny sample! In a case such as yours, it is probably necessary to test the broadest possible choice: sugar cane, bee pollen, sweet potatoes, yacon, mulberries, prickly pears, various varieties of bananas in different ripeness state, sapodillas, cherimoyas kids and adults, dates, any wild fruits, etc, etc.
That is the approach that has given tremendously good results over 40 years on hundreds of people, a path much safer than trying to move forward in a self-cleared, one’s own path in the jungle or just following a single person’s experiment as Löwenherz did, I’m afraid.
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I read it in Lex's journal. Maybe he used the word mitochondria instead of bacteria. But he only used mitochondria when referring to fat digestion specifically. I probably assumed too much or misunderstood.
But what about anti-nutrients? What about organ meats? What about mineral balance rather than high numbers; i.e. a 1:1 ratio of calcium-magnesium?
The nutrient density thing seems to me like it has been blown out of the water by the sheer amount of people eating so few veggies on a meat heavy RPD, with health problems declining. That's not to say we don't need them. It's just they are seasonal in the wild and therefore, IMO, should be so for us. We don't get plant matter year-round, in fact we usually only get it about 4-5 months out of the year AT BEST, definitely not in the wild.
Nutrient density seems to be promoted most by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. His recipe of 'Health=nutrients/calories' seems a little in favor of raw veganism. In fact it disregards adequate fueling altogether. He puts all meat (except salmon and a few low-fat white fish) into the category of detrimental to health. He says meat should be a condiment; 10% of your plate size. He puts anti-nutrient rich greens at the top of his health list; wheat grass, spinach, winter squash (not terribly anti-nutrient filled but starches are still being explored), and many others I can't remember right now. I always wondered why we had so many problems with nutrients in my family, we ate so many veggies but still felt lacking. Anti-nutrients explains it all.
The calorie vs. nutrient thing seems a little bogus IMO when dealing with raw foods. Nutrients are great, but like calories, we only need what we need, any excess is damaging. It seems on a raw meat diet you need far fewer nutrients and IMO that's because of that lack of anti-nutrients you are consuming.
Okay. Fair enough. He's certainly allowed to live his life and chose the way he wants. I won't question it anymore ;)
Nutrient density definitely matters. The higher Brix a specific piece of fruit is, the more nutrients that it usually contains, especially minerals.
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i was afraid to bc gs says they're 'mutant' :D
I do prefer heirloom/niche varieties of banana, like the burro or quadrato bananas that you can get in Costa Rica, or the apple bananas you can get in Hawaii. However, the fears of bananas are WAY overblown. I stick to the organic ones, and I do fine.
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I tested my BG an hour after eating just 2 small super-ripe black skinned plantains and it had spiked to 185 mg/dl. I didn't notice any negative symptoms, and thus wouldn't have known that my BG spiked badly if I hadn't tested, so it may a good precaution to test one's BG when trying new foods.
Since then I've been peeling most of my plantains while green and drying them, to minimize the sugar. This is also supposed to detoxify them and also maximize the resistant starch (RS) content. RS is supposed to improve insulin sensitivity (among other benefits) and my general BG readings have improved some since I started consuming raw potato starch, which is very high in RS.
The plantains don't taste as good this way, but oddly not too bad. Sort of like a bland banana cracker. I like dried mushrooms, which have a somewhat similar taste and texture so maybe that help explain why I don't mind these. I think I'll also try dipping them in raw egg and using them like crackers with raw cheese.
I also let some plantains ripen a bit before drying, to give some sweetness. I limit my intake of these.
Some hopeful news - a Filipino scientist has developed a natural treatment to fight Panama disease in banana plants:
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/260412/scitech/science/filipino-discovers-cure-for-dreaded-banana-diseases (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/260412/scitech/science/filipino-discovers-cure-for-dreaded-banana-diseases)
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Nutrient density definitely matters. The higher Brix a specific piece of fruit is, the more nutrients that it usually contains, especially minerals.
Not speaking for any other fruit or for anything other than brix, but most well-grown non-organic cherries have far higher brix counts than their organic counterparts. Idk if that correlates into better mineral content or what. However some of the toxicity (however much that is at the end result, again idk) may reduce the difference in higher mineral content.
It would be interesting to know what weighs out to healthier.
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I tested my BG an hour after eating just 2 small super-ripe black skinned plantains and it had spiked to 185 mg/dl. I didn't notice any negative symptoms, and thus wouldn't have known that my BG spiked badly if I hadn't tested, so it may a good precaution to test one's BG when trying new foods.
What does BG stands for? Blood Glucose? Is it a problem if it spikes while producing no negative symptoms? Sorry to have to ask, but as an hominid living in paleolithic times, I don't know ;) :) . What should have happened to me when I ate not only 2, but 4 - 5 (or perhaps more) super ripe plantains?
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What does BG stands for? Blood Glucose? Is it a problem if it spikes while producing no negative symptoms? Sorry to have to ask, but as an hominid living in paleolithic times, I don't know ;) :) . What should have happened to me when I ate not only 2, but 4 - 5 (or perhaps more) super ripe plantains?
That's a point,, what's the problem if it's not apparent. But I see it differently. The problem isn't short term, but long term repeated spikes of glucose. One would truly have to have an interest here to follow up with learning about insulin resistance, hormonal effects, etc. And again, I think a lot has to do with genetics; not everyone is going to show the effects the same from blood sugar spikes. If you want to go back to what our ancestors did ( as if that's a blueprint for optimal health) in most locations of the world, excepting the jungles where fruit is abundant, blood sugar spikes would come for a very short period of each year, when fruit ripened. And then it beneficial in that it helped put weight on (insulin response to high blood sugar) for the coming winter when food would be less abundant. Contrast that to spiking bg on a daily basis, for the rest of your life. Our ancestors didn't import fruit nor cultivate it.
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Not speaking for any other fruit or for anything other than brix, but most well-grown non-organic cherries have far higher brix counts than their organic counterparts. Idk if that correlates into better mineral content or what. However some of the toxicity (however much that is at the end result, again idk) may reduce the difference in higher mineral content.
It would be interesting to know what weighs out to healthier.
Yes, it's true that you can find convetionally-grown produce that is higher Brix than the organic versions.
As to which is healthier, that's probably on a case-by-case basis, depending on the person, the chemicals, the amount of lifetime exposure, etc..
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What does BG stands for? Blood Glucose? Is it a problem if it spikes while producing no negative symptoms? Sorry to have to ask, but as an hominid living in paleolithic times, I don't know ;) :) . What should have happened to me when I ate not only 2, but 4 - 5 (or perhaps more) super ripe plantains?
Yup, blood glucose. Not everyone's BG spikes throughout the year after eating certain fruits or other carby foods, so it may not be natural or healthy in every context. For example:
"Insulin doesn't clear all the glucose as it enters the bloodstream, however. Some of it does accumulate, leading to a spike in blood glucose. This usually doesn't exceed 130 mg/dL in a truly healthy person, and even if it approaches that level it's only briefly. ...
In South America, different investigators studied a group of native Americans in central Brazil that subsist primarily on cassava (a starchy root crop) and freshwater fish. Average blood glucose one hour after a 100g OGTT was 94 mg/dl, and only 2 out of 106 people tested had a reading over 160 mg/dL" - Stephan Guyenet, PhD, http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/11/glucose-tolerance-in-non-industrial.html (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/11/glucose-tolerance-in-non-industrial.html)
"1hr pp BG is 160 - that could be pre-diabetes, BUT IT MAY IMPROVE ON HIGHER CARB INTAKE!" - Dr. Kurt Harris, http://www.blogger.com/profile/16581622438291732724 (http://www.blogger.com/profile/16581622438291732724)
If you're OK with post-prandial BG spiking above 180 mg/dl, that's your choice. Given my history of poor carb tolerance and health issues, I'm erring on the side of caution.
What should have happened to me when I ate not only 2, but 4 - 5 (or perhaps more) super ripe plantains?
I can't possibly know, nor can you without testing. Just because we don't notice obvious symptoms doesn't guarantee that no damage is occurring at the cellular level. I'm not saying that it is, just including it as another piece of info and trying to avoid excessive spikes if I can.
Contrast that to spiking bg on a daily basis, for the rest of your life. Our ancestors didn't import fruit nor cultivate it.
Yes, not our pre-agrarian HG ancestors, anyway.
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(…), excepting the jungles where fruit is abundant (…) for the coming winter when food would be less abundant. (…) Our ancestors didn't import fruit nor cultivate it.
Why would they have to import fruit if they lived in tropical jungles where fruit is abundant whole year round as there is no such thing as winter in the tropics? Significant human population of Europe and other temperate regions occurred only after the mastery of fire.
This topic has been discussed and addressed ad nauseum on various threads. GS mentioned in a post I’m unable to find again that when the Spaniards came to Philippines, fruits were extremely abundant.
And…
A few weeks ago I talked on the phone with one of the three “instincto” guys who went in exploration without taking any food supplies into the primary rain forest where the orangutans live. I’m not sure if it was in Sumatra or in Borneo, I should ask him again but he lives in Jakarta and he was only shortly in France.
Anyway… I asked him what they found to eat in this jungle. He said they ate almost only fruits, various species of unknown wild fruits and he said it was not a problem because their trip lasted only 10 days. The fruits were high in the trees, so they had to climb after having thrown a rope.
And last week a met the father of an instincto family who lived half a year in French Guyana. I also asked him what food they found in the Amazonian primary forest. He said there is about 150 different species of wild fruits, also all high in the trees.
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Why would they have to import fruit if they lived in tropical jungles where fruit is abundant whole year round as there is no such thing as winter in the tropics? Significant human population of Europe and other temperate regions occurred only after the mastery of fire.
This topic has been discussed and addressed ad nauseum on various threads. GS mentioned in a post I’m unable to find again that when the Spaniards came to Philippines, fruits were extremely abundant.
And…
Our ancestors left the tropical jungles about 6 to 7 million years ago and since then progressively increased their animal food intake, whilst reducing their plant food intake.
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Left the jungles but not the tropics.
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Our Paleolithic ancestors almost certainly would have foraged by the laws of optimal foraging theory ie. spend as few calories as possible to obtain as many calories as possible.
So? We're not in paleo times. We can't be paleo perfect and we shouldn't be trying to be. If we have access to large amounts of nutrient dense food we should eat it. Whose to say at some point in paleo times a lot of vegetables were gathered, not by your own hand but for you? Does this suddenly mean its wrong and oh noes we shall now not eat it and all of its nutritional glory. A lot of us do labor heavy jobs, like me. Whose to say the time and effort and what have you I spend doing that, earning money, can't go into large amounts of sustenance, albeit energy poor sustenance (usable energy, that is. Not LIFE FORCE energy).
Nutrients are not the only thing to consider. When you eat that plant you absorb its unique life-force. The laws of nature and the workings of the universe go far beyond what most of us consider. The food is many things to us, not simply "nutrients" as we know them.
Dr. D: The evidence for the health promoting effects of a mostly only meat diet is shoddy. I don't see how you can rely on that fact at all to make any point. A human can live off of garbage food for a long time and seem fine, but what I'd find interesting to see is if that person can then become something of a "hardcore fitness buff" without these plant compounds, and live without problems into old age.
My idea of health is body-builder or extremely fit and functionally strong looking athlete (basically one of the highest of quality people you see from time to time). We were all meant to look like this, developed strongly in childhood and carried on through life. If you aren't like this (most of us don't even come close) then you can make absolutely no claim to the lack of veggies being a healthy thing for you, even if people seem to be "living".
Anti-nutrients exist, obviously. But they're blown out of proportion. To suggest that large amounts of vegetables, when taken into the context of a very healthy diet filled with a range of food (and an abundance of it to keep you healthy) could be the wrong idea is idiotic. Every food has these things, but that doesn't mean they outweigh the benefit.
That being said, yes, it should be a seasonal thing for the most part, with vegetable intake declining sharply for winter but not being eliminated (the idea of it being unnatural at times doesn't necessarily destroy all benefits it can accrue or induce more negatives than positives, if done with limitation).
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Why would they have to import fruit if they lived in tropical jungles where fruit is abundant whole year round as there is no such thing as winter in the tropics? Significant human population of Europe and other temperate regions occurred only after the mastery of fire.
This topic has been discussed and addressed ad nauseum on various threads. GS mentioned in a post I’m unable to find again that when the Spaniards came to Philippines, fruits were extremely abundant.
I was thinking of you, living in Europe, eating fruits cultivated and imported from all over throughout the whole year, and instinctos at Montrame when I used to visit,, eating food from all over the globe, tables lined with fruits, perfectly ripe, very very sweet and at least to me,, so tempting to fill up on. Just had to walk downstairs and sit myself at the table.
And…
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This is to help explain why I have a rough personal rule of thumb to try to keep my 1 hour post meal blood glucose below 160, not to imply any claims about what macronutrient ratio anyone should eat--I found this example in my notes of a people who can eat loads of starchy carbs their whole lives without spiking their tested BG above 180 at 1 hour after consuming glucose:
In the 1960s, when it was fashionable to study non-industrial cultures, researchers investigated the diet and health of a culture in Tukisenta, in the highlands of Papua New Guinea. The eat practically nothing but sweet potatoes, and their typical daily fare is 94.6 percent carbohydrate. Whether or not you believe that exact number, their diet was clearly extraordinarily high in carbohydrate. They administered 100g OGTTs [liquid glucose] and measured blood glucose at one hour, which is a very stringent OGTT. They compared the results to those obtained in the 1965 Tecumseh study (US) obtained by the same method. Here's what they found (1): [chart] Compared to Americans, in Tukisenta they had an extraordinary glucose tolerance at all ages. At one hour, their blood glucose was scarcely above normal fasting values, and glucose tolerance only decreased modestly with age. In contrast, in Americans over 50 years old, the average one-hour value was around 180 mg/dL!
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/11/glucose-tolerance-in-non-industrial.html (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/11/glucose-tolerance-in-non-industrial.html)
Perhaps these Tukisentans have very healthy microbiomes or helminths or something that help them deal with such a high carb diet. Whatever the reason, not everyone gets big BG spikes from carby meals, so it's not necessarily natural or healthy to get them.
Footnote: anyone who has read my early posts in this forum will know that I didn't come to this from an originally pro-carbs-bias viewpoint. I even reported quite a bit of evidence supporting the hypothesis that humans might be classed as facultative carnivores. I kept my eyes open for counter examples, and this was a rather amazing one.
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Left the jungles but not the tropics.
Tropical grassland ecosystems have far fewer fruits. Compared to tropical jungles there are far fewer frugivorous animal species, due to the limited fruit supply. The few frugivores that there are are mostly birds, because they are able to cover the distance between dispersed fruit sources. Fruits also grow seasonally in tropical grassland ecosystems (wet and dry seasons).
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I was thinking of you, living in Europe, eating fruits cultivated and imported from all over throughout the whole year, and instinctos at Montrame when I used to visit,, eating food from all over the globe, tables lined with fruits, perfectly ripe, very very sweet and at least to me,, so tempting to fill up on. Just had to walk downstairs and sit myself at the table.
And…
And... ?
I now eat seafood (I haven't yet find a reliable source of meat in the region since I came here 2 months ago), vegetables and fruits from the area around here, as most of us do most of the time and wherever possible. I don’t say “local” because the concept of “local” lacks a precise definition.
Once again, the situation at Montramé was specific and organized in a way that newbies and ill people could quickly and easily discover the immense choice offered by nature and choose the food best suited to them at the moment to let their body recover and heal. The fact that this situation was artificial and made it much too easy to obtain our food was acknowledged and recognized by GCB himself. He said he hadn’t found any solution to this problem.
Cheers
François
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Thanks for your quote, Phil. Interesting, to say the least. .
Tropical grassland ecosystems have far fewer fruits. Compared to tropical jungles there are far fewer frugivorous animal species, due to the limited fruit supply. The few frugivores that there are are mostly birds, because they are able to cover the distance between dispersed fruit sources. Fruits also grow seasonally in tropical grassland ecosystems (wet and dry seasons).
Yes, and that could be why we eat a lot of animal foods. But it doesn’t mean that we are not adapted to fruits as well. The ecosystem you describe is the current one and we know that ecosystems can change quite a lot in relatively short periods of time. What was exactly the one of our ancestors 1 million years ago? Where they all living in identical or similar environments? Didn’t they move and thrive in various environments as we homo sapiens still do?
I just spoke with my neighbors last evening and they told me one of their friends walks easily 40 km per day; he walked from Würzburg to Rome in 6 weeks. According to Google Maps, that is a 1 126 km, 233 hours walk.
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This is to help explain why I have a rough personal rule of thumb to try to keep my 1 hour post meal blood glucose below 160, not to imply any claims about what macronutrient ratio anyone should eat--I found this example in my notes of a people who can eat loads of starchy carbs their whole lives without spiking their tested BG above 180 at 1 hour after consuming glucose:
Perhaps these Tukisentans have very healthy microbiomes or helminths or something that help them deal with such a high carb diet. Whatever the reason, not everyone gets big BG spikes from carby meals, so it's not necessarily natural or healthy to get them.
Footnote: anyone who has read my early posts in this forum will know that I didn't come to this from an originally pro-carbs-bias viewpoint. I even reported quite a bit of evidence supporting the hypothesis that humans might be classed as facultative carnivores. I kept my eyes open for counter examples, and this was a rather amazing one.
I know i came across some theories that carb eating cultures have a way inside their gut that converts carbs to something like fat. Dont know really. Must be a genetic thing.
I live in a rice crazy country and me and my 11 yr old boy are odd for not eating rice.
My boy has digestive issues with rice. Me too... But not as bad... I used to suffer from blood sugar highs and crashes daily thinking that was normal.
Who knows maybe some of those tribal folk are still not fully adapted.
Im of mixed breed so its just my bad luck how the genes mixed.
Maybe most of us here are the odd unadapted people unsuited for the 21st century norms.
The rest of the sickly who didnt find their suitable diet are diseased and will die out.
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Yes, and that could be why we eat a lot of animal foods. But it doesn’t mean that we are not adapted to fruits as well. The ecosystem you describe is the current one and we know that ecosystems can change quite a lot in relatively short periods of time. What was exactly the one of our ancestors 1 million years ago? Where they all living in identical or similar environments? Didn’t they move and thrive in various environments as we homo sapiens still do?
I just spoke with my neighbors last evening and they told me one of their friends walks easily 40 km per day; he walked from Würzburg to Rome in 6 weeks. According to Google Maps, that is a 1 126 km, 233 hours walk.
The African Savanna has been around for millions of years. It just expands or gets smaller depending on the level of aridity, determined by global climate change. Apparently there was significant expansion of grassland 2 to 1.75 million years ago (MA) (Quinn et al, 2007).
Homo erectus had spread into northern China by at least 1.66 MA. So yes, the genus Homo inhabited regions with significantly different climates by 1 MA. Chances are, though, that we didn't evolve from Homo erectus, but rather an African population of Homo heidelbergensis (Manzi, 2011).
J Hum Evol. 2007 Nov;53(5):560-73. Epub 2007 Oct 1.
Paleogeographic variations of pedogenic carbonate delta13C values from Koobi Fora, Kenya: implications for floral compositions of Plio-Pleistocene hominin environments.
Quinn RL, Lepre CJ, Wright JD, Feibel CS.
Manzi G. Before the emergence of Homo sapiens: Overview on the Early-to-Middle Pleistocene fossil record (with a proposal about Homo heidelbergensis at the subspecific level). International Journal of Evolutionary Biology 2011 May; 582678. doi: 10.4061/2011/582678.
Having to walk tens of kilometers just to get some fruit is hardly optimal foraging. I would happily walk 40km every day if I knew I was going to get access to an ungulate carcass at the end of it, of which I would only need relatively very little, compared to fruits, to balance the caloric deficit I obtained from the walk.
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And... ?
I now eat seafood (I haven't yet find a reliable source of meat in the region since I came here 2 months ago), vegetables and fruits from the area around here, as most of us do most of the time and wherever possible. I don’t say “local” because the concept of “local” lacks a precise definition
Once again, the situation at Montramé was specific and organized in a way that newbies and ill people could quickly and easily discover the immense choice offered by nature and choose the food best suited to them at the moment to let their body recover and heal. The fact that this situation was artificial and made it much too easy to obtain our food was acknowledged and recognized by GCB himself. He said he hadn’t found any solution to this problem.
Good to know, I think it really made it difficult for people like myself to come home and not just get over fruited out,, too many day after day sugar highs. It was hard for me to correlate my failing health then when I had bee taught that if honey, mangos and dates are what smells etc.. the best, eat as much as you want... So again, that is what I am speaking of, the daily consumption of high amounts of sugar spiking insulin repeatedly..
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The African Savanna has been around for millions of years. It just expands or gets smaller depending on the level of aridity, determined by global climate change. Apparently there was significant expansion of grassland 2 to 1.75 million years ago (MA) (Quinn et al, 2007).
Homo erectus had spread into northern China by at least 1.66 MA. So yes, the genus Homo inhabited regions with significantly different climates by 1 MA. Chances are, though, that we didn't evolve from Homo erectus, but rather an African population of Homo heidelbergensis (Manzi, 2011).
J Hum Evol. 2007 Nov;53(5):560-73. Epub 2007 Oct 1.
Paleogeographic variations of pedogenic carbonate delta13C values from Koobi Fora, Kenya: implications for floral compositions of Plio-Pleistocene hominin environments.
Quinn RL, Lepre CJ, Wright JD, Feibel CS.
Manzi G. Before the emergence of Homo sapiens: Overview on the Early-to-Middle Pleistocene fossil record (with a proposal about Homo heidelbergensis at the subspecific level). International Journal of Evolutionary Biology 2011 May; 582678. doi: 10.4061/2011/582678.
Thanks, good and well referenced info — as it should be if we wanna be taken seriously. However I fear that these papers only reflect the current mainstream state of knowledge, which is subject to some controversies and will probably be altered in the future to take account of new discoveries. All this remains somehow hypothetical. For example where does the “Aquatic Ape Theory” or AAT fits in all this? Is it compatible or not? I don’t know, I ask you because you seem to have a good knowledge of anthropology, something I don’t have.
Having to walk tens of kilometers just to get some fruit is hardly optimal foraging. I would happily walk 40km every day if I knew I was going to get access to an ungulate carcass at the end of it, of which I would only need relatively very little, compared to fruits, to balance the caloric deficit I obtained from the walk.
Yeah, I didn’t mention this long distance hiker to tell that our ancestors walked likewise — not to go to Rome but to pick a few fruits on a faraway tree! ;D No, it was to remain that Paleolithic hominids and humans were certainly moving around a lot and could cover long distances in a relatively short time, thus having access and spreading to various ecosystems and different kinds of foods. It’s not only a matter of caloric balance, but also of variety. Our ancestors became sedentary in the Neolithic only, then tied in one place by their grain fields and livestock.
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Thanks, good and well referenced info — as it should be if we wanna be taken seriously. However I fear that these papers only reflect the current mainstream state of knowledge, which is subject to some controversies and will probably be altered in the future to take account of new discoveries. All this remains somehow hypothetical. For example where does the “Aquatic Ape Theory” or AAT fits in all this? Is it compatible or not? I don’t know, I ask you because you seem to have a good knowledge of anthropology, something I don’t have.
Yeah, I didn’t mention this long distance hiker to tell that our ancestors walked likewise — not to go to Rome but to pick a few fruits on a faraway tree! ;D No, it was to remain that Paleolithic hominids and humans were certainly moving around a lot and could cover long distances in a relatively short time, thus having access and spreading to various ecosystems and different kinds of foods. It’s not only a matter of caloric balance, but also of variety. Our ancestors became sedentary in the Neolithic only, then tied in one place by their grain fields and livestock.
You are right that much of what we know about hominin evolution is hypothetical, and there are several different proposed hypotheses. But these hypotheses are based on the discovered evidence so far. I am by no means an expert on the subject, I have just read some scientific articles on the subject, that's all. I havn't read much about the aquatic ape theory, but as far as I am aware it is not compatible with the other hypotheses about human evolution.
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Good to know, I think it really made it difficult for people like myself to come home and not just get over fruited out,, too many day after day sugar highs. It was hard for me to correlate my failing health then when I had bee taught that if honey, mangos and dates are what smells etc.. the best, eat as much as you want... So again, that is what I am speaking of, the daily consumption of high amounts of sugar spiking insulin repeatedly..
I remember you answered to me that you don’t speak French. As the explanations were given in French only, I’m afraid you didn’t really get everything straight. We were clearly and repeatedly told both in the sessions and in the written articles published in “Orkoscopie”, which became latter “Instincto Magazine”, to be wary of modern fruits, to eat a minimum of fruits and a maximum of veggies — as far as plant foods are concerned.
I know it’s difficult, especially when we are psychologically missing something such as love and affection. Humans are not meant to live alone or to be locked into a malfunctioning couple. In such situations we tend to overeat those too easily obtainable sweet foods to compensate the lack of satisfaction and enjoyment in our lives.
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I agree about filling the emptiness with sweets, or food in general. The times I was there, five times over five years, I spent big blocks of time being tutored by Nicole, and others... Plus I watched the eating patterns of the long timers... So my guess is that if you're told now (or at some time) to eat more veggies than fruits, that in itself, if followed, mentally contradicts your impulses to eat more sweet fruits. Or,, what do You if you come across an abandoned fig tree and the figs are perfectly ripe, you break them apart and they ooze sweet jam like sugars, and they are the type of figs that don't burn your tongue, when do you stop? My point here is, big deal if it's only a few times a year this happens. But if it's the next day and you've imported a Durian, as Montrame did/does, and then you have bought a dozen mangoes... the way we can find really yummy ripe fruit year around these days, either you're using some discipline and limiting how much you eat, or you're indulging and believing that you're body needs 'these' nutrients and will tell you when you've had enough. So it's not that we're not adapted to eat fruits,, my point is how much and how often. My experience with eating fat for calories vs. fruit is that now even though I still enjoy the taste of fruit, I can feel the effects of rising blood sugar, and not to mention what I think about it. Before I 'found' fat as a fuel source, I had little or no idea of what it was doing, and would not look closely enough after eating it as to how it really made me feel. But then, we're all different. And some of us have less or more love that truly fills us.
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So my guess is that if you're told now (or at some time) to eat more veggies than fruits, that in itself, if followed, mentally contradicts your impulses to eat more sweet fruits.
No, the advise is not: "eat more veggies than fruits". It is: "eat a max of veggies and a minimum of fruits, especially of cultivated modern fruits". It’s not the same, can you see the difference?
You mention figs. Figs are quite wild, you can barely eat too many. I ate a few tonight and I’m absolutely fed up of figs, I can’t eat more of them even if there are several kilos left in my fridge. I wish I rather had some fatty wild boar meat instead, but unfortunately I haven’t got any meat. I got plenty of limpets for my lunch, though, since the tide was low around lunch time.
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I see some difference, but still there is a mental process going on, or in need to be remembered. I remember being on Crete in Greece, the figs were everywhere,, years ago. I could easily eat a kilo of more without a stop. Some figs here in US will create a burning stop, some won't until you've eaten quite a bit.
Your example of not wanting figs and craving fatty Boar meat, I know what you mean. My point is that let's say you have the Boar meat, a day goes buy and there's a market with Mangoes or Durian, who knows what you'll be drawn to, but I have experience a yo-yo effect; yes I can eat so much fruit that I want protein and fat, but the next day I can very easily be tempted by some sugary fruit if it's staring right at me in my fridge or counter, or market place where I'm shopping. Again, I think this is different than peoples had years and years ago; simply, the consistent availability of sweet fruits.
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Regarding modern fruit... yes I have observed this. Go for the more ancient the more organic by default ones.
And follow the seasons... that is what the healers here in the Philippines advise... there is always something new in season and local.
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My latest observations support the aquatic ape theory with regards to our nutritional requirements and deficiencies.
- magnesium is the big deficient mineral but can be abundantly found if you lived and waded in the beach waters. abundant magnesium from sea plants, fish and the ocean water through our skin. The magnesium absorbed through skin is the big bad kicker. Even if you stuff yourself with magnesium supplements you can never get your requirements unless you get it through your skin.
- zinc is skyrocketing #1 healing from oysters.
- omega 3 fats from sea creatures
- we need some amount of salt... but living by the sea fits the bill without need for "table" salt.
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Regarding modern fruit... yes I have observed this. Go for the more ancient the more organic by default ones.
And follow the seasons... that is what the healers here in the Philippines advise... there is always something new in season and local.
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My latest observations support the aquatic ape theory with regards to our nutritional requirements and deficiencies.
- magnesium is the big deficient mineral but can be abundantly found if you lived and waded in the beach waters. abundant magnesium from sea plants, fish and the ocean water through our skin. The magnesium absorbed through skin is the big bad kicker. Even if you stuff yourself with magnesium supplements you can never get your requirements unless you get it through your skin.
- zinc is skyrocketing #1 healing from oysters.
- omega 3 fats from sea creatures
- we need some amount of salt... but living by the sea fits the bill without need for "table" salt.
I am not convinced that our magnesium nutritional requirement is as high as you say it is. Where do you get your opinion about magnesium from?
There's plenty of zinc in meats and organ meats. I just had a quick check on USDA nutrient database. There were two types of raw oysters, one had a bit more zinc than raw lamb liver, the other less.
If you're eating grass-fed ungulates you shouldn't have to worry about essential PUFAs. The omega 6 to 3 ratio is more important anyway.
My body can't stand salt, whether it's sea salt or not.
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My latest experiences and experiments on magnesium
http://www.myhealthblog.org/2013/08/08/magnesium-deficiency-the-big-elephant-in-the-room-big-root-cause-of-many-diseases/ (http://www.myhealthblog.org/2013/08/08/magnesium-deficiency-the-big-elephant-in-the-room-big-root-cause-of-many-diseases/)
- my childrens' leg cramps
- my father in law's lower back pain osteo arthritis
My opinion on zinc:
Oysters - 1 ounce gives 25.4 mg zinc or 170% DV
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4189/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4189/2)
Raw Beef - 1 ounce gives only 1.3 mg if zinc or 8% DV
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/10526/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/10526/2)
- my experience with healing my eyes (eating a dinner of raw oysters after abstinence of a few years), seems like I woke up with tint removed from my vision
- my experience with raw oysters almost every other day while on SAD after 1 month measuring my sperm count from 100 million / ml to 300 million / ml
My opinion for omega 3 fats from fish:
- my brother stopped shivering to death while being deathly sick due to MD psoriasis treatment... all it took was a lunch of raw tuna sashimi.
- Inger's experience with raw fish heads is amazing.
My readings about Soil and Health... that our farmed soils are depleted... but that the oceans are still rich in nutrients.
Why there are illnesses that are cured by people bathing in the ocean.
Why mountain people have to trade with the sea shore people for sea foods to complete their nutritional requirements. But the sea shore people have less need to trade with mountain people for nutritional deficiencies.
Why aren't omega 3 supplements made from cows or sheep?
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I agree on the mineral balance with sea food. Eating Salmon satisfies my need for minerals, maybe mg, who knows, at least by going by any tendency to have leg cramps. Oysters, I'm sure are full of Zinc, as shown, but have not noticed any benefits. Swimming in the ocean to absorb mg,, maybe, the minerals in the ocean, even though ionic in size, are still not organically bound as in the minerals in plant and animals. Whether the body absorbs enough to matter, who knows. There is a big craze right now with mg. oil. And maybe it does work. I think one would have to do some lab work to find out,, For there can be so many other factors. Such as, anyone who is inclined to rub mg oil on their body is already probably focused on the importance of mg, and probably believes they need more, and My Guess is that they are more aware of what foods have mg. and are including them at the same time. Swimming in the ocean can have a myriad of effects on health; breathing ocean air, cleansing the skin by the action of swimming and sand (exfoliating dead skin cells and removing old body oils and grime ) and receiving large amounts of vit D from Sun exposure, sun bathing for the eyes due to the high reflectance of water, exercise in itself, the simple joy or elation of swimming in the ocean itself, the reduction of stress by swimming and taking the time to relax and do something 'healthy' for yourself, the natural stretching that occurs while swimming which can be likened to yoga, and the list goes on...
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My latest experiences and experiments on magnesium
http://www.myhealthblog.org/2013/08/08/magnesium-deficiency-the-big-elephant-in-the-room-big-root-cause-of-many-diseases/ (http://www.myhealthblog.org/2013/08/08/magnesium-deficiency-the-big-elephant-in-the-room-big-root-cause-of-many-diseases/)
- my childrens' leg cramps
- my father in law's lower back pain osteo arthritis
My opinion on zinc:
Oysters - 1 ounce gives 25.4 mg zinc or 170% DV
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4189/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4189/2)
Raw Beef - 1 ounce gives only 1.3 mg if zinc or 8% DV
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/10526/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/10526/2)
- my experience with healing my eyes (eating a dinner of raw oysters after abstinence of a few years), seems like I woke up with tint removed from my vision
- my experience with raw oysters almost every other day while on SAD after 1 month measuring my sperm count from 100 million / ml to 300 million / ml
My opinion for omega 3 fats from fish:
- my brother stopped shivering to death while being deathly sick due to MD psoriasis treatment... all it took was a lunch of raw tuna sashimi.
- Inger's experience with raw fish heads is amazing.
My readings about Soil and Health... that our farmed soils are depleted... but that the oceans are still rich in nutrients.
Why there are illnesses that are cured by people bathing in the ocean.
Why mountain people have to trade with the sea shore people for sea foods to complete their nutritional requirements. But the sea shore people have less need to trade with mountain people for nutritional deficiencies.
Why aren't omega 3 supplements made from cows or sheep?
Don't your kids eat rice? The phytate content of rice, which binds with Mg and inhibits absorption, could well be the problem. We should be thinking about Mg balance (intake - excretion), not just intake.
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I agree on the mineral balance with sea food. Eating Salmon satisfies my need for minerals, maybe mg, who knows, at least by going by any tendency to have leg cramps. Oysters, I'm sure are full of Zinc, as shown, but have not noticed any benefits. Swimming in the ocean to absorb mg,, maybe, the minerals in the ocean, even though ionic in size, are still not organically bound as in the minerals in plant and animals. Whether the body absorbs enough to matter, who knows. There is a big craze right now with mg. oil. And maybe it does work. I think one would have to do some lab work to find out,, For there can be so many other factors. Such as, anyone who is inclined to rub mg oil on their body is already probably focused on the importance of mg, and probably believes they need more, and My Guess is that they are more aware of what foods have mg. and are including them at the same time. Swimming in the ocean can have a myriad of effects on health; breathing ocean air, cleansing the skin by the action of swimming and sand (exfoliating dead skin cells and removing old body oils and grime ) and receiving large amounts of vit D from Sun exposure, sun bathing for the eyes due to the high reflectance of water, exercise in itself, the simple joy or elation of swimming in the ocean itself, the reduction of stress by swimming and taking the time to relax and do something 'healthy' for yourself, the natural stretching that occurs while swimming which can be likened to yoga, and the list goes on...
being earthed, just to add to your list :)
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a couple more, the idea we swallow salt water when we swim, which might have more mg. than what comes through our skin,, which probably does move our bowels, coupled with being buoyant in the water unweights the colon ( and other organs ) and allows them to work in an unweighted manner ( ever try taking a full enema floating in a bath tub?)
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Don't your kids eat rice? The phytate content of rice, which binds with Mg and inhibits absorption, could well be the problem. We should be thinking about Mg balance (intake - excretion), not just intake.
Thats a great thought. Thank you.
My eldest child is the least affected by leg cramps maybe because he no longer eats rice due to his health history.
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I thought phytates are in mostly the bran and the germ or grain seeds,, maybe I'm wrong. But I also think there's a relation to sugar/high glycemic carbs (white rice) and mineral balance and needs. I can't think of the references, sorry.
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You are not wrong about the phytates being mainly in the bran. White rice contains about 0.2g phytic acid per kg, compared to about 9 to 11g/kg for brown rice.
The following article seems to support what you are saying about sugar (glucose) and its effect on minerals (Mg at least):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7986788 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7986788) Rats fed fructose absorbed more Mg than rats fed glucose.
Another factor to take into consideration is that if you eat rice you are filling yourself up with nutrient-poor food when you could be eating nutrient-dense food instead. That in itself will obviously have a significant effect on mineral balance.
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Since you have exhausted all options, perhaps you are suffering from a severe cannabinoid deficiency.
The government doesnt want you to have it so its extremely hard to get, even where the plant is legal but perhaps you should go to california or somewhere else and try to get your hands on raw cannabis juice.
LEAF [ The Health Benefits of Juicing Raw Cannabis ] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xPmR8j4plw#)
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some very important points.
-75 percent of meat was frozen. aajonuses experiments already confirmed that frozen meat is no good
-i cant digest raw vegetables either...unless i juice them, you shoudl try that.
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you also messed up by saying no raw dairy and yes to high fruit,
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Cannabanoid deficiency??? or over active pain response? I think people just need to heal their neurotransmitters and settle down their endocrine systems to reduce pain. This can happen by many means, not just with the use of cannabis. Sure cannabis can alleviate symptoms, but it's still up to people to change their lives so that they are taking care of the roots of the issue. It can also cause symptoms in sensitive individuals.
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juicing cannabis has nothing to do with getting stoned. The reason i suggested that he try the cannabis juicing is because cannabinoids are a dietary essential and i thought he had exhausted all raw paleo options. It actually works miracles for people without changing anything else in their diet but it si important that the cannabis is kept raw.
upon delving deeper into his report i noticed the high fruit zero dairy andfrozen meat issues which are likely to have been a very big problem as well.
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smoking cannabis in my opinion is only a temporary relief that helps while your stoned. Juicing it raw is the real medicine that heals you nutritionally.
I suspect this is why they "legalized" in america recently. CO went from being a medical state where you can grow as many plants as you want to being "legal" where u go to jail for growing more than 6 plants. 6 plants is not nearly enough to support a juicing regimen so i suspect that they changed it because they want us only smoking and not juicing.
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you also messed up by saying no raw dairy and yes to high fruit,
For the hundredth time, significant dairy consumption started in a few agrarian societies about 8000 years ago with the domestication of animals. Even today, there are still some regions where people don't eat any dairy and are in much better health than dairy consuming populations.
Individuals who have been on raw paleo instinctive nutrition since birth and thus never ate any dairy except their mother's milk are now perfectly healthy adults.
I would appreciate if dairy advocating were restricted to the Primal diet and W. Price diet sections. Thanks.
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For the hundredth time, significant dairy consumption started in a few agrarian societies about 8000 years ago with the domestication of animals. Even today, there are still some regions where people don't eat any dairy and are in much better health than dairy consuming populations.
Individuals who have been on raw paleo instinctive nutrition since birth and thus never ate any dairy except their mother's milk are now perfectly healthy adults.
I would appreciate if dairy advocating were restricted to the Primal diet and W. Price diet sections. Thanks.
Well, the hot Topics Forum is also meant for raw dairy along with other anti-rawpalaeo Foods discussions.
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Yes, I thought about it too late, my post was already on line. But I didn't remove it because it is also meant for all the several pro-dairy posts which are spread everywhere on this forum by svrn (alias "Troll of Dungeon" if I'm not mistaken — why all those changes of pseudo? It is confusing) and plenty others. That's boring and it can lead newcomers to think that, according to us, raw dairy is fine . -\
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i did a lot of research and found out that some or most of the cannabis in the world is contaminated by gmo cannabis. Need more input on this. Look at this thread and see if you can help me figure out whats going on.
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http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/alert-cannabis-may-be-gmo/new/#new (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/alert-cannabis-may-be-gmo/new/#new)
only posting it here to correct the mistake i made on this thread. discuss it on the new thread.