Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Coatue on July 03, 2010, 08:11:45 pm
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If a steak is low in fat, would covering it in coconut oil make up for the loss of fat?
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I read something about coconut oil not being truly raw - even extra virgin coconut oil - in that it is all heated between 45 c and 60 c (which is 'cold' by oil standards hence they use the term 'cold pressed')
That said, I also read something that said there are no enzymes in coconut oil or any oil so perhaps the heating doesn't matter so much as the fats in the oil are stable up to fairly high temperatures
Raw butter might be a better bet if you can get it, or coconut cream you've made yourself from raw coconuts...
Also, different fats have different properties so adding any fat to the meat would make up for the lack of fat in the sense of calories etc. but it's not exactly the same as having the actual fat of the meat...
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very good coconut oil is extracted using a fermentation process (and i think is highly digestible for most people.) tropical traditions gold label i believe is the name, or blue breeze. there are a few high quality brands.
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I use raw coconut butter as a dipping sauce for nearly all my meat
totally awesome tasting
It is very rich and taste like sweet cream, so much better than plain oil
It is like a mixture of oil and cream and has the nutrition of the whole coconut
Expensive but worth it
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I use raw coconut butter as a dipping sauce for nearly all my meat
totally awesome tasting
It is very rich and taste like sweet cream, so much better than plain oil
It is like a mixture of oil and cream and has the nutrition of the whole coconut
Expensive but worth it
sounds good is it raw?
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It says its raw
kind of expensive
13 dollars a jar
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what brand do you use sabertooth?
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Artisana raw organic coconut butter
www.premierorganics.org
You can get it on line or whole foods, I think its worth trying
It works real well with my low carb approach
I eat a couple of table spoons with every meal and besides a little lemon water, it the only non animal food I have been eating for the last 4 months, and have had real results as far as health vitality and wellbeing.
I feed it to my kids, even my 6 month old likes it, I believe adding extra quality fat is good for babies.
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My favourite Virgin Coconut Oil is sold by Wilderness Family Naturals as found here: http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/ (http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/). It's so much better than all of the other, so-called, 'raw' oils I've tried that it's worth the expense and time importing it from the US. Highly recommended!
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My favourite Virgin Coconut Oil is sold by Wilderness Family Naturals as found here: http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/ (http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/). It's so much better than all of the other, so-called, 'raw' oils I've tried that it's worth the expense and time importing it from the US. Highly recommended!
Thank you for this recommendation. I plan to order some as soon as I get paid on Friday. I've been wanting to try Coconut Oil again to fight my Candida problem, but even the "raw" oils are heated to 118 degrees F.
I've tried Coconut Oil in the past and gotten extreme nausea, thrown up and diarrhea from it. I'm willing to bet that it's die off.
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coconut butter is far Superior in taste and digestibility compaired to oil.
please take the challenge.try a Jar (IM totally addicted to the stuff)
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wouldn't you think that fresh coconut meat is way better than either butter or oil which are always processed to some degree?
i buy fresh coconuts from korean supermarket, crack them open and scrape meat. it can't get fresher than that and zero industrial processing.
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coconut butter is far Superior in taste and digestibility compaired to oil.
please take the challenge.try a Jar (IM totally addicted to the stuff)
FYI: coconut butter is just another name for coconut oil (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-coconut-butter.htm).
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have you tried it
Coconut butter is not the same at all, it has the milk cream, flesh and oil blinded into a velvety treat.{its like a more concentrated raw coconut with some of the fiber removed),<<<low temperature prosess>>>
Oil is just coconut grease
Raw Coconut Butter is made using a low-temperature process (below 115° F.) that preserves the vital enzymes, vitamins, and proteins. It is made from 100% certified organic coconut, with no preservatives or other additives, in a facility that does not process any peanut, gluten, or dairy products.
Ingredients: Organic, raw coconut
http://livesuperfoods.com/raw-foods/coconut/artisana-coconut-butter.html
This stuff is not like other cooked coconut butter please don't jump to conclusions based on other brands and try it before you dismiss it(Its freaking great)
Those wise geeks dont know what ends up :P
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Well, I'd love to try that butter stuff but I can't because I can't tolerate carbs right now.
I don't like Coconut Oil, but I LOVE Coconut cream/milk. Problem is it has sugar in it.
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have you tried it
Coconut butter is not the same at all, it has the milk cream, flesh and oil blinded into a velvety treat.{its like a more concentrated raw coconut with some of the fiber removed),<<<low temperature prosess>>>....
What do you mean by coconut cream and coconut milk, as the store-bought kind have non-raw, non-Paleo aspects, including the one ThatWasJustYourLife84 mentioned, with variations between the brands, of course. This coconut butter you're referring to must be a special kind, because most companies that use the term just use it as a simile for coconut oil. The company you buy from should give it a special name to distinguish it from the other coconut butters and minimize confusion (and probably increase sales :) ).
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It is a special raw blend of coconut butter minimally processed
Its a phenomenon in itself(like nothing else, quasi paleo)
its coconut with some of the indigestible fiber cold pressed out
check the web page out: Its Artisana coconut butter.
http://livesuperfoods.com/raw-foods/coconut/artisana-coconut-butter.html
Its a shame that most people dont know about this stuff, I found it by chance sitting next to the oil at the Whole Foods. Its 13 dollars a jar, so I think the price deters most shoppers, but I can tell you its worth it.
It has the complete nutrition of a whole coconut without the tough fibrous material
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Hmm, it says here the carb content is only 2%: http://coconutbutter.org/, yet Sabertooth says it tastes good. Maybe that little bit of carbs is what makes it more tasty and digestible, like the wild berries did for me with coconut oil? They still need a more distinctive name for it, though. How about coconut ambrosia butter?
However, it doesn't pass the "raw" test per our local raw prelate, Tyler. According to TD, a food cannot be heated above 40 degrees Celsius (104 degrees Farenheit) to be considered raw, whereas Artisana says their coconut butter "is made using a low-temperature process (below 115° F.)". However, it does pass my test for sufficiently low-heated to try it at least once, as I'm less of a purist.
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That 40-degree Celsius rule is not of my making. I merely quoted it as it is the main figure accepted in RVAf diet circles, more or less. That is, AV sometimes cites 37 or 38 degrees celsius as the upper limit which makes no sense as that is human body-temperature, while others cite 46 degrees Celsius, but most usually go for the 40 degrees celsius figure as a general rule.
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There are 7 g carbs per serving and I eat about 3 servings a day so that is 21 carbs plus two glasses of lemon water that brings me to around 30 grams of carbs per day, it works for me
I have eatten about a 16 ounce jar per week for the past six months and along with my meat and fat trimmings,marrow,eggs,ect; it has improved my health and wellbeing dramatically.
I tried the plain oil with blueberries(Its just too high glycemic and always gave me sugar spikes and now for some reason anything high fructose makes my sugar drop into the low 70s an hour or so afterward) I think the ultra low glycemic carbs in this coconut butter is what keeps me in a good balance.
I wishfor anyone who thinks that coconut oil is a little bland and tasteless should give it a try
It does have a statement on the side of each jar that some here may find appealing
Artisana..always Full Power Rae
Handmade with care, our organic live foods
are crafted using a special low temp process that
always presever the life-essentail fatty-acids
enzymes and vitamines
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That 40-degree Celsius rule is not of my making. I merely quoted it as it is the main figure accepted in RVAf diet circles, more or less. That is, AV sometimes cites 37 or 38 degrees celsius as the upper limit which makes no sense as that is human body-temperature, while others cite 46 degrees Celsius, but most usually go for the 40 degrees celsius figure as a general rule.
OK, thanks for that clarification. I'm curious--what do they base 40 degrees on and why do regard that figure as the best (and I'm not saying that it isn't)? Why not 39 or 41, for example?
Sabertooth: "Artisana..always Full Power Raw"
Yes, but again, TD's view is that anything above 104 F is not raw. Artisana's saying their product is raw does not make it so. Artisana merely mentions that the honey enzymes are not damaged below 115 F. Do you have any additional explanation to offer for why below 115 F should be considered raw instead of below 105 F? And TD, can you refute Artisana's claims on this? I'm open-minded on the subject and curious about the explanation from both sides. I think I would lean more towards Tyler's definition of raw, though, because heating even up to 114 F adds complexity to nature whose full effects we may not be aware of. Adding unnecessary complexity also adds unnecessary unknown risk. On the other hand, if I test the coconut butter and get benefits, I may decide that the experienced benefits outweigh the unknown risks.
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above 104 F is not raw. Artisana's saying their product is raw does not make it so. Artisana merely mentions that the honey enzymes are not damaged below 115 F. Do you have any additional explanation to offer for why below 115 F should be considered raw instead of below 105 F? And TD, can you refute Artisana's claims on this? I'm open-minded on the subject and curious about the explanation from both sides. I think I would lean more towards Tyler's definition of raw, though, because heating even up to 114 F adds complexity to nature whose full effects we may not be aware of.
Plants don't have the same fats as animals. Plants don't get damage to their myelin sheaths if they run too extreme a fever. Plant foods can be heated to 114F. Animal foods, like honey, should never go above body temperature.
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In some tropical areas were coconuts are grown the temperature reaches 115 so I doubt that 115 could do damage that would cause harm to the nutritional qualities of the coconut, and with the indigestible fiber removed, the nutrients that are left are More bio available, so I think its not compromising anything , except an Ideal that doesn't apply to coconut
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In some tropical areas were coconuts are grown the temperature reaches 115 so I doubt that 115 could do damage that would cause harm to the nutritional qualities of the coconut
here is another way of looking at it. it is probably true that 115 degrees of outdoor temperature would not harm live coconut, in fact i think coconut gets even hotter under direct sunshine.
but coconut is in a live state and can probably tolerate wide range of temperatures because the fats are hidden well within the plant structure and are not exposed.
as soon as the coconut is harvested, it is not live anymore. and if cracked open, all the contents immediately start react with oxygen in the air (very slow at first). it starts to decompose even at room temperature and below.
i really do not know the answer to the debate, so make your own conclusions.
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In some tropical areas were coconuts are grown the temperature reaches 115 so I doubt that 115 could do damage that would cause harm to the nutritional qualities of the coconut, and with the indigestible fiber removed, the nutrients that are left are More bio available, so I think its not compromising anything , except an Ideal that doesn't apply to coconut
But other wild plants game animals live and have lived in areas where temperatures reach 115, so wouldn't that same argument apply to all edible plants and animals that can survive in temperatures up to 115? Heck, even here in Vermont the record high recorded temp is 105 F and the plants and animals didn't all die at that time.
Like you I don't care much about dietary "ideals"--just the facts ma'am/sir--and I'm interested to hear the facts from both sides of this argument. The 104 F (40 C) figure has dominated this forum up to now, but that doesn't guarantee it's correct and it's good to get different perspectives.
I'm still curious as to where the maximum 114 F and 104 F (40 C) figures come from. Why not 113 F or 115 F, or 103/105 F? If 114 F is OK because it's below a theoretical maximum temperature on earth (with possible higher temps in direct sunlight), an actual temperature of 159.3 °F was recorded in a desert in Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremes_on_Earth), should that then be the max temp to heat foods to?
So far we seem to have just opinions on what the max temp to heat food should be to still be considered "raw" or "nutritious"--I'm more interested in facts, please. I'm not taking a stance myself--I'm in information-gathering mode on this, so I'm soliciting facts. I've benefited from eating mostly raw, but I don't know all the details behind why and how it works.
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I have had raw whole coconuts and they are nearly impossible to get fresh in Kentucky, The ones I have eaten have given me headaches and weren't very pleasent to eat. This butter taste wonderfull and makes me feel good , what else matters unless your a fundamentalist fanatic. Its the only processed food I eat and its nearly raw and organic so I sleep good at night.
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But other wild plants game animals live and have lived in areas where temperatures reach 115, so wouldn't that same argument apply to all edible plants and animals that can survive in temperatures up to 115? Heck, even here in Vermont the record high recorded temp is 105 F and the plants and animals didn't all die at that time.
Like you I don't care much about dietary "ideals"--just the facts ma'am/sir--and I'm interested to hear the facts from both sides of this argument. The 104 F (40 C) figure has dominated this forum up to now, but that doesn't guarantee it's correct and it's good to get different perspectives.
I'm still curious as to where the maximum 114 F and 104 F (40 C) figures come from. Why not 113 F or 115 F, or 103/105 F? If 114 F is OK because it's below a theoretical maximum temperature on earth (with possible higher temps in direct sunlight), an actual temperature of 159.3 °F was recorded in a desert in Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremes_on_Earth), should that then be the max temp to heat foods to?
So far we seem to have just opinions on what the max temp to heat food should be to still be considered "raw" or "nutritious"--I'm more interested in facts, please. I'm not taking a stance myself--I'm in information-gathering mode on this, so I'm soliciting facts. I've benefited from eating mostly raw, but I don't know all the details behind why and how it works.
All living plants and animals regulate their own temperature, so that they do not get too hot or too cold. Mammals and birds produce heat through respiration to keep their body warm in a cold environment. In a hot environment sweating and increasing blood flow at surface of skin etc can be utilised. Ectothermic animals (eg reptiles and amphibians) regulate their temperature by moving in and out of the sun/shade to warmup or cool down. Plants prevent overheating through transpiration.
These mechanisms occur to try and keep the temperature of the organism at the optimum temperature for their enzymes. That is, the temperature at which the rate of catalysation by the enzymes is greatest. At temperatures above the optimum, enzymes begin to denature. As temperature drops below the optimum enzyme activity decreases (but they are not denatured).
So I would say that the max temp for something to be considered raw is the optimum temperature for the enzymes of that organism when it was alive. For example in humans it would be 37.8 C. However, different organisms have different optimum temperatures. I believe birds for example maintain their core body temperature at approx 40C.
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http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/coconut-oil/msg44670/#msg44670
This butter taste wonderfull and makes me feel good , what else matters unless your a fundamentalist fanatic. Its the only processed food I eat and its nearly raw and organic so I sleep good at night.
Not much else probably matters to you, and I'm not questioning your experience, which is intriguing to me, but your experience doesn't necessarily apply precisely the same way to everyone else, which is why in forums like these people ask questions and others share answers. Questioning and answering--that's the Socratic method and it's a pretty good learning tool in my experience. I've even got links re: Socrates and the Socratic method at my blog, so don't be surprised if I ask a lot of questions. :)
I'm not a fundamentalist fanatic by any stretch of the imagination (not that you were necessarily implying that, but I'll try to put you more at ease by explaining this)--you only have to glance at my avatar caption "mostly-raw facultative carnivore" (it doesn't say 100% raw zero carber, for example)--to know that, and I've been on the receiving end of some tut-tutting in the past for being insufficiently pure in both my rawness and low-carbness, but that coconut butter is expensive and I am more interested in factual answers to my questions than opinions. I'm curious about coconut butter and do intend to try it because coconut oil is indigestible and nasty tasting for me unless I mix it in with something else. If you don't have the answers, that's fine, maybe someone else will. That's the beauty of forums.
Surely it's not out of bounds to ask about the rawness of a food in a place called the "Raw Paleo forum"? I'm open to either interpretation--TD's claim that keeping foods below 40 C is essential and other people's claims that heating up to 45.6 C / 114 F ("low-and-slow", hunter-gatherer style) is OK, though perhaps not optimal. I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I'd like to learn the reasoning and evidence of both sides. I used to lean a little to the low-and-slow cooking is OK side of things, but after I'd been eating mostly raw for a while I started to notice that when suet, pork fat and honey are heated up to 114 F or somewhat higher, they acquire a wee bit of a burnt flavor. Even so-called raw honey that has only been heated up to 90 F or so doesn't taste as good as honey that has never been heated at all above room/shipping temperature. So now I do lean more to the lower-temp side of things, for taste reasons if nothing else, but I also do eat some low-and-slow-cooked foods too and even eat some higher-and-faster cooked foods when I dine at restaurants or relatives' homes and I don't vomit as a result like Tyler reports he does.
...So I would say that the max temp for something to be considered raw is the optimum temperature for the enzymes of that organism when it was alive. For example in humans it would be 37.8 C. However, different organisms have different optimum temperatures. I believe birds for example maintain their core body temperature at approx 40C.
Thanks, Haai, so the sense I'm getting from proponents of the 40 C figure is that it's a rough average of the body temperatures of animals that are consumed and the principal is not to heat anything much above its normal body temperature, yes? And it sounds like the negative effect that heating within the 40 - 45.6 C range is believed to have is to damage the enzymes in the meat eaten. Is that correct and how does 40 C apply to plants?
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The optimal temperature for plants is much lower than for animals. I think in the low 20s C. I think the figure will vary across different species of plants though, depending on the climate in which they live and are adapted to. I would be interested to know what the core temperature is for example of a cactus that lives in a hot desert.
So I don't know at what temperature you would consider plants to be no longer raw.
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Yes, 40 degrees celsius is about the point when (some) enzymes start getting denatured. Other enzymes have higher temperature-limits, it all varies.
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Don't bees fan air onto honey with their wings to keep it cool or something, or am I mixing something up?
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Don't bees fan air onto honey with their wings to keep it cool or something, or am I mixing something up?
Yes, I read about that too.
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http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/coconut's/msg44670/#msg44670
I'm not a fundamentalist fanatic by any stretch of the imagination (not that you were necessarily implying that, but I'll try to put you more at ease by explaining this)--you only have to glance at my avatar caption "mostly-raw facultative carnivore" (it doesn't say 100% raw zero carber, for example)--to know that, and I've been on the receiving end of some tut-tutting in the past for being insufficiently pure in both my rawness and low-carbness, but that coconut butter is expensive and I am more interested in factual answers to my questions than opinions. I'm curious about coconut butter and do intend to try it because coconut oil is indigestible and nasty tasting for me unless I mix it in with something else. If you don't have the answers, that's fine, maybe someone else will. That's the beauty of forums.
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Don't mind My facetious nature, for I am the fundamentalist fanatic I was referring to, because this butter is truly the only processed food I eat, I do believe debate is important as a tool to squeeze out a consensus or at least a mutually understanding of what it is to be a modern day Paleo man.
I'm just a Wild Cat by nature so most of the negative insinuation is part of my feline nature and not an attempt to Buffalo my position, which I stand by, that this butter is about as raw as you can get when it comes to processed coconut, and its leaps and bounds above coconut oil in taste, digestibility, and nutritional content,(these are the issues I would like to discuss on this thread)
I know the importance of the whole raw thing is paramount but you must keep it into the context of the thread which is coconut oil which even if cold presses it is still a non paleo food concentrate, and I think the butter is better because it contains the nutrition of the whole coconut
Like you the oil just didn't set with me right, but the butter seems to work wonders, it has fiber and very low glycemic carbs that seem to buffer the fat and facilitate better digestion and absorbsion, I understand the issue of cost I spend 60 dollars a month on the stuff and I am fairly poor, so all I can give is my testimony and personal recommendation that anyone who uses coconut oil or who wants a better alternative should at least try one jar, I melt the butter and use it for a dipping sauce. Its truly a divine dessert.
I only found it by chance, before I was trying to mix ghee and coconut oil to add fat to my diet, because I didn't yet have a good raw fat source for the low carb approach, It was tolerable, but I didn't feel it was optimal. I fist saw non raw coconut butter on Marks daily apple and was interested in Trying it ,but it took a month or so before I saw it on the store shelf.http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-wonderful-world-of-coconut-products/
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Yes, I read about that too.
I think I read that British honey should not go above ~20C, whereas honey from warmer climates can go slightly higher, before it is damaged.
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I think I read that British honey should not go above ~20C, whereas honey from warmer climates can go slightly higher, before it is damaged.
I came across a much higher temperature as a guideline(low 30s, I think).
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34 to 35C
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34 to 35C
Yes, I recall reading that bees fan the honey with their wings in a desperate effort to keep the temperature below 93F. It was always something which had struck me as rather profound. I think the same article also noted that if they failed in this attempt that, incredibly, they rejected the honey as a source of food.
Sabertooth, that Artisana coconut 'ambrosia' butter sounds incredible and it's very interesting to read of your positive experiences using it with regard to your otherwise problematic blood sugars. I'll try to find out if it's available in the UK as I'd be keen to try some myself.
Thanks, Haai, so the sense I'm getting from proponents of the 40 C figure is that it's a rough average of the body temperatures of animals that are consumed and the principal is not to heat anything much above its normal body temperature, yes? And it sounds like the negative effect that heating within the 40 - 45.6 C range is believed to have is to damage the enzymes in the meat eaten. Is that correct and how does 40 C apply to plants?
Thanks for the information Haai.
My understanding, Phil, has certainly always been that above the stated temperatures the enzymes begin to denature. I'd read previously, for instance, that honey apparently contains over 5000 enzymes in it's raw state which are partly responsible for it's benefits. However, with Alphagruis (I think!?) recently refuting the significance of the enzymes of raw food, I now wonder also about what temperatures are important. If the enzymes are quickly de-activated by our own digestion and, therefore, unimportant perhaps we should ask - at what temperature does any additional damage become significant?
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Has anyone tried the "Thai Organc Life" coconut oil?
I just learned that the only way to guarantee that the oil is raw is to obtain it by fermentation. Some say this brand is the only one that does it and also that most coconut oils (even cold pressed) are obtained by first overheating the coconut pulp.
Unfortunately they are in Thailand and the shipping would cost more than the bottle itself.
So far I tried an oil from the 'now' brand which helped a little with my sunburn at the time, but the skin still pealed off.
Anyway, would you think this thing could work for extracting coconut oil?
(http://image.lehmans.com/lehmans/Images/products/main/30340100.jpg)
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The coconut oil I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, majormark, is truly raw fermented oil. I import it from the US to the UK at great expense! It's very high quality.
I'm not sure the pictured contraption would do all of the work. It may be useful as part of a multi-staged process. If one could obtain the coconuts, I don't see why one couldn't follow a procedure for producing traditionally fermented coconut oil at home. Your device looks similar to my coconut grater.
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If one could obtain the coconuts, I don't see why one couldn't follow a procedure for producing traditionally fermented coconut oil at home. Your device looks similar to my coconut grater.
That coconut oil ferments at a certain temperature for about 24 hours, so you'd have to have a way to maintain that at home. They have it naturally in Thailand.
I checked some mixed reviews about that oil extractor and it seems the seeds are in general heated by the small lamp at the bottom to generate more oil. That is optional anyway so I will probably try to order one to see how it works.
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Yes, it may be difficult to maintain the correct temperature here in the UK particularly. I'll stick to buying it for now but may keep it in mind as a future project.
Keep us posted with your experiments using the extractor!
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My local market does have Artisana coconut butter after all. I tried it. It's OK, though it seems rather dry and bland. Could I have gotten an old jar? At least it doesn't give me nausea like coconut oil does.
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dry? sometimes the oil separates and yo have to heat it to over 80 degrees for it to melt, but I have noticed a different consistency depending on what shipment comes in, usually the oil separates from the top and needs to be blended back in, The main point is that like you coconut oil makes me feel bad and this butter doesn't, and I believe it helped me detox, because I was polluted before this diet and I think the coconut butter has helped me restore my mineral balance.
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I'm disappointed to read your review of the Artisana coconut butter PaleoPhil as I was looking forward to trying some myself. I've managed to locate a UK supplier! I guess I should just try it myself anyway. I have the same issues with nausea caused by even small amounts of coconut oil.
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dry? sometimes the oil separates and yo have to heat it to over 80 degrees for it to melt, but I have noticed a different consistency depending on what shipment comes in, usually the oil separates from the top and needs to be blended back in, The main point is that like you coconut oil makes me feel bad and this butter doesn't, and I believe it helped me detox, because I was polluted before this diet and I think the coconut butter has helped me restore my mineral balance.
I tried blending the oil back in and adding some more oil, but it's still pretty dry/powdery and sticks to the roof of my mouth and my throat like dry peanut butter. I'm guessing it was real old.
... I have the same issues with nausea caused by even small amounts of coconut oil.
Interesting, we seem to have a lot of similarities.
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Two days in a row that I've tried the coconut butter I've woken up with stomach gas, nausea, malaise and diarrhea. The first time I didn't wake till morning and I figured the diarrhea was probably due to some burdock root I tried. The second time (tonight) I woke during the night and the diarrhea was bad and also accompanied by cramps.
So it looks like I can get coconut butter past my stomach, but then it gives my intestines problems. It may be useful as a laxative, however, if I limit the amounts. Problem is, I don't know what the maximum I can tolerate is.
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I think it does get old on the shelf, being totaly raw, but I have noticed that the batches have been a little dryer than when I first started tring it.
Coconut is a laxative and you may be having a detox reaction and your bowls are flushing, I'm sorry about your reactions, maybee I am more adapted to the detox effects and now rely on it to keep me clean. Take into account that I eat no other plant fodder so my gut may be primed a little differently Coconut is very cleansing and I wouldn't think that it would be responsible for such gut reactions, I have totally given up all herbs and I have used burdock as well as milk thistle, and from my experience they cause me more problems then they are worth. One mans ambrosia is an other mans gastric distress. so far coconut butter has 1 for and 1 against so who can be the tie breaker
thumbs up or down anyone?
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It sounds as though you need to avoid all forms of coconut PaleoPhil. As you suggest, we have many similarities and so I, too, shall endeavour to experiment with some Artisana coconut butter when I place my next order to see if I have similar reactions.
I'll go for the tiebreaker sabertooth! :)
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It does seem that my body doesn't digest coconut butter well, but this may be just the remedy I need. I can consume more of it at a time than coconut oil, so I can achieve more of a laxative effect with less nausea. My thumb is down for coconut butter only as a staple food. If I can find the right dose, maybe it will serve as a workable medicinal.
Plus perhaps the occasional coconut-oil-and-berry akutaq, which I found I also can tolerate better than coconut oil alone. Coconut akutaq is a bit like coconut butter.
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My local market does have Artisana coconut butter after all. I tried it. It's OK, though it seems rather dry and bland. Could I have gotten an old jar? At least it doesn't give me nausea like coconut oil does.
I have tried it when I wasn't raw. I don't feel I can trust an item off an unrefrigerated shelf that looks like a cream to be raw and pure.
Can you run mature coconut through a juice extractor? Many of us do. Maybe a local juice bar can do it for you if you don't have your own juice extractor. Can you buy organic raw coconut meat nearby to do that?
I have fermented coconut cream at regular room temp. It worked fine separating itself from the oil after a while.
I know coconut cream can act as a soap, and that's great for some things. Otherwise, I seem to really do good with raw long chain fatty acids for my nutrition.
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Yes, you could be on to something in that respect PaleoPhil. If it helps with your constipation issues then it may provide a temporary role whilst your body continues to adjust to this WOE.
Thanks for the reminder RawZi! I'd forgotten about the delicious coconut cream I used to make when I first got into AV's Primal Diet. Have you tried this PP? Could well be worth a try. I've never tried fermenting the resultant cream from juicing. Do you then actually dispose of the separated oil RawZi or consume both end products?
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I made coconut creme a few times when I first read AV's books... it is the most divine food ever! I'd keep it in the fridge so it would be solid (no separation), but it's soft and then just melts in your mouth.
Unfortunately, I do better wo it though.
As for the coconut creme concentrate (coconut butter), I'm not a fan of concentrated foods. They (even pemmican) just don't do quite go right for me. But if it works for you and you like, then enjoy!
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I haven't tried coconut cream. Maybe I'll try it some day. I don't have a juicer and I don't know of a decent local juice bar. I searched the Internet and the only one that came up is an afterthought added to a tanning salon on the other side of the next town.
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making the coconut cream is quite the feat!.. at least i thought so, breaking open the coconuts and all. it's so disappointing to open a bad coconut! also, you have to put the juicer blade part in the freezer before use or it will get too hot too fast. i even had to take breaks to put it back in the freezer to cool as it would get to warm from use after a short while.
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making the coconut cream is quite the feat!.. at least i thought so, breaking open the coconuts and all. it's so disappointing to open a bad coconut! also, you have to put the juicer blade part in the freezer before use or it will get too hot too fast. i even had to take breaks to put it back in the freezer to cool as it would get to warm from use after a short while.
What juicer do you use? I have an Omega 8005, and it does a good job juicing coconuts. I've juiced up to 5 coconuts in a single run. It gets warm, but not too hot. I find that the warmth helps the coconut cream flow.
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I tried gently heating the Artisana coconut butter just to the point where it melted, but it still tasted dry and powdery/fibery. I'm hoping it's because it was old and that the 3 jars of it I ordered will be much better.
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hmmm, i can't remember my juicer...
paleophil, i think that coconut cream (butter, whatever) is a concentrated product and therefore dry. i tried something similar a few years ago and it made me want so much water it was so dry. it seems to take my energy instead of add to it, so i just never ate it again. i wonder if you can add more oil to offset the dryness?
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When I First started using coconut butter, I would melt it with a little ghee it make it smoother, It was good , I just stopped using dairy alltogether so phased out the ghee, and enjoyed it a little dry
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When I First started using coconut butter, I would melt it with a little ghee it make it smoother, It was good , I just stopped using dairy alltogether so phased out the ghee, and enjoyed it a little dry
Dry? So you mean it's normally dry? Man, I hope the jars I ordered don't turn out to be as dry as the stuff I got from the market. It's like sawdust mixed into paste. And it's more bland and slightly sour like coconut oil than sweet. But if it helps my bowels I'll force it down.
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Instincts>you.
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Phil
Well It may be seasonal fluctuations in moisture levels because I have noticed some jars have more oil than others, I have had some dryer jars but I have such a taste for thestuff I don't mind much
But usually it can be heated over 80 degrees and stirred into a rich thick cream.
I just meant it wasn't as creamy without the ghee, I also added a little plane oil into it when I was about out and was trying to make it go further, without any negative effect.
I hope you do well from your order, I ordered a six pack and had it direct shipped and it was good.(try to blend it as soon as you open it, sometimes there will be an inch of oil that separates to the top of the jar and it needs to be blended back in to make it creamy.
I hope that your first reaction was just a detox reaction and if you let yourself adapt long enough, you may be able to benefit from the mild cleansing and nutrition provided by coconut butter.
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Thanks for the tips, Sabertooth. "Detox" is a vague, largely meaningless and overused term that is often found within magical contexts that are impossible to prove or (more importantly) disprove. What exactly am I supposed to be detoxing from a raw Paleo diet? Isn't this supposed to be a low- or non-toxic diet? After all, coconut butter is heated and refined more than raw Paleo foods. I think my reaction is more likely to be due to the high level of medium chain triglycerides (http://www.nutritionreview.org/library/mcts.php) in coconut fat. There's no need to reach for mysterious and ill-defined causes like "detox" when nausea is a very common side effect from MCTs for people who aren't used to eating them (see the article I linked to). If detox means nothing more than nausea, than detox it is. :)
Coconut oil gave me such bad nausea at one point that the taste is particularly foul to me and I currently can't eat it on its own, whereas I can handle the taste of coconut butter and incur less nausea at the same intake levels, so it may allow me to adapt to MCTs faster than straight coconut oil. Coconuts were not consumed by humans for 99.9+% of our history, AFAIK, and I appear to digest ancestral animal fats like marrow and suet better, but if MCTs can assist with my current constipation without incurring negative side effects, then that medicinal benefit makes coconut butter worth experimenting with.
Interestingly, based again on the article I linked to, MCTs may provide an alternative athletic fuel to carb loading, which would be particularly useful for people like me who fare poorly on carbs. So it might be useful if I could become adapted to MCTs.
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Perhaps it is an issue with mct adaption, I had been using coconut prior to going paleo so was already some what adapted.
Coconut fats are processed by the liver and even if you are fully paleo, metabolic waste can still result in mild liver congestion, which may or may not be responsible for your issues, ,(its vague but plausible to consider that nauseousness could signify some type of flushing) perhaps you just aren't MCT adapted and the undigested mcts that pass through the liver trigger a purging effect where a combination of the mcts and whatever else is flushed out with it could trigger nauseousness(vague but plausible)
I had yeast real bad prior to paleo and did a coconut oil cleanse, but had to stop after the third dose because the flushing was so bad(worst nausea ever), maybe flushing is a more appropriate term than detox, anyway I did feel some improvement , but since going paleo I don't think such drastic measures are necessary and now I rely on my meat, coconut butter, animal fat, egg yolk, and lemon water to keep me well.
I also do poorly on carbs and use coconut butter as an alternative fuel, it has some carbs that are very low glycemic and besides lemon water its my main source of carbohydrate. Now that I am adapted to this way of eatting I don't even crave any carb rich foods, maybee my body remembers how bad they made me feel. It seems to of helped me with ketogenic adaption early into the diet (it primes me for optimum fat metabolism)
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I found a fleeting reference by KGH that "the MCTs in coconut" make "their first pass metabolism through the liver". I'd be interested in any original sources you have.
I also found in my earlier searchings coconut oil is supposedly absorbed into the bloodstream via intestinal capillaries:
"Coconut Oil
Short- and medium-chain fatty acids are absorbed directly into the blood via intestine capillaries and travel through the portal vein just as other absorbed nutrients do. However, long-chain fatty acids are too large to be directly released into the tiny intestine capillaries. Instead they are absorbed into the fatty walls of the intestine villi and reassembled again into triglycerides. The triglycerides are coated with cholesterol and protein (protein coat) into a compound called a chylomicron.
Within the villi, the chylomicron enters a lymphatic capillary called a lacteal, which merges into larger lymphatic vessels. It is transported via the lymphatic system and the thoracic duct up to a location near the heart (where the arteries and veins are larger). The thoracic duct empties the chylomicrons into the bloodstream via the left subclavian vein. At this point the chylomicrons can transport the triglycerides to where they are needed." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid
However, neither the liver nor intestine angle seem to explain the nausea I experience as soon as coconut oil hits my stomach. Perhaps some of it in some people can enter the bloodstream via the stomach as well?
Here's a thread on nausea from coconut oil where others chime in that it gives them nausea and some got used to it by building up slowly:
http://paleohacks.com/questions/7292/nausea-from-coconut-oil
I put the mixed coconut butter in a container into the fridge without thinking and discovered by accident that this makes it more palatable. It's still bland but the powderiness isn't quite as noticeable for some reason and it's less dry.
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I often leave whats leftover on the plate and stick it in the fridge and snack on a flake or two between meals
What ever is the mechanism by which nausea is occurring we may not be sure
Is tolerance building and adaption beginning.
All I know is that for me it seems that a table spoon or two with meat and fat trimmings works great , it seems that the coconut butter boast my fat metabolism and keeps my energy levels stable throughout the day, If I just eat meat and fat I get an energy boast at first but then seem to drag after a couple of hours, the coconut seems to prevent this and I can keep good energy all day..
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I finally received the shipment of Artisana coconut butter today. It looked fresh and somewhat more mixed, but it's still dry and powdery. I warmed it to mix it, but it was still dry, so I put it in the fridge.
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After eating a couple tbsps of the coconut butter with water I felt full, didn't eat anything else and went to bed early. Big mistake. I was woken with some bad reflux. This never happens with suet or marrow, so I apparently don't digest coconut butter well for some reason. It's a little surprising because the WAPF says that coconut oil is the easiest fat to digest and claim it's a good one to start with for people who have trouble digesting fats, though I was already skeptical that it's the quite the miracle food they claim it to be. It doesn't make biological sense for it to be a better fat than the animal fats we evolved eating over millions of years.
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It doesn't make biological sense for it to be a better fat than the animal fats we evolved eating over millions of years.
I agree. Sure, for certain people who have developed an adaptation for coconuts due to environmental considerations it could be considered a very positive food. But, for most, I suspect the miracle benefits so often alluded to are mostly illusionary.
Having said that, it probably does still retain some benefits for people in a state of functional health that can digest and assimilate it well. I can tolerate a little oil and do notice improvements in my skin but, as previously noted, I do suffer nausea consuming even small quantities. I suspect the 'butter' would cause me further problems too.
Glad to read of your experiences Phil. Thanks for sharing!
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After eating lard and coconut butter for a while I was feeling down in the dumps, quite fatigued and with mild stomach pains and nausea. The butcher at the local market finally had some suet and since eating that again I've rapidly been feeling more my old chipper and energetic self. When I eat some coconut butter again, it takes me back down. I can handle small amounts of lard with suet, but coconut butter seems to overwhelm the positive effects of suet. It's puzzling to me, because the WAPF and many coconut butter/oil advocates report that coconut oil is very easy to digest and that they get lots of fast energy from it. Perhaps I have some issue still in the stomach and/or liver that prevents me from digesting coconut butter/oil well.
Another bummer was that after the one day where the coconut butter seemed to loosen my bowels a tiny bit and the next day where it gave me severe diarrhea it hasn't loosened any further. It seems that it only loosens if I eat a lot of it and then it does it severely. There doesn't seem to be any in-between for me.
Do you think anyone would eat the remaining unopened jar of coconut butter I have if I gave it to Goodwill?
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It clearly is not for your consumption Phil. Yes, best give your remaining supply away. If only I were closer! :) I'm sure someone would love to relieve you of it.
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lol, i don't think goodwill is allowed to sell opened food product. better give to michael :D
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It's not opened and it has a safety seal, but my guess is that most lower-income folks wouldn't even know what it was (I didn't myself until learning of it from this forum).
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I'll soon be importing this brand of coconut oil. I've searched long and hard and it is the best value for money:
http://www.therawfoodworld.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=1002879
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I got interested into VCO because I decided to try a 3-day VCO detox starting from today and will continue it if I don't suffer from unbearable detox reactions, in an attempt to rid myself of 5% eczema rashes.
1) Why does coconut butter or coconut oil never go bad?
- Coconut cream made from juicing mature/young coconuts have to be refrigerated or else it'll turn bad right?
- I would love it if one of these suppliers that claim to be using "Cold-pressed" or "raw" or "low temperature" methods to put up a real video recording of the manufacturing process. What is different from their manufacturing process compared to our "juicing" methods? that makes their product stay good for so long?! does not make ANY sense at all...
- I just saw that Mercola's Coconut Oil is a new product on iHerb.com and it claims to be "cold pressed". They can say whatever they want, since "raw" or "cold-pressed" have NO certification agencies!
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The coconut cream comes in cans, so I suppose that's what preserves it?
Coconut oil is resistant to going rancid much more than vegetable oils, because it's highly saturated.
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aLptH, I think that Letseczema meant AV style pd coconut cream.
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My favourite Virgin Coconut Oil is sold by Wilderness Family Naturals as found here: http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/ (http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/). It's so much better than all of the other, so-called, 'raw' oils I've tried that it's worth the expense and time importing it from the US. Highly recommended!
Hi Phil,
Here is some more info regarding Wilderness Family Naturals EV Coconut Oil.
The centrifuged virgin coconut oil is exposed to maximum temperatures of 40° C (about 104° F) and the cold-pressed coconut oil is processed at about 98.6° F or 37° C. Neither oil is exposed to extremely "low" or high temperatures. If you go to there website: www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com (http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com) ( I apologize Phil, I gave you the wrong web address, I forgot to add "Naturals" at the end) and go to the FAQ's you can get even more info regarding why this is the best EVCO in the market! I hope you give it a shot! My body seems to agree with this brand. Probably due to the extraction at lower temperatures. This is the ONLY EVCO I recommend!!!
Wow! Michael and Chris were right. My thanks to these gentle men. Wilderness Family Naturals kicks ass over Artisana, Nutiva and other so-called raw coconut products. It tastes way better and seems to be much more digestible for me. Wish I had tried it first instead of the other junk. If I fare well on it in the longer run, I'll add it to my staple foods.
I miss Michael, who was one of the best contributors to this forum. Wish Dorothy could have been here at the time. I'm sure they would have hit it off.
coconut butter is far Superior in taste and digestibility compaired to oil.
please take the challenge.try a Jar (IM totally addicted to the stuff) ...
http://livesuperfoods.com/raw-foods/coconut/artisana-coconut-butter.html (http://livesuperfoods.com/raw-foods/coconut/artisana-coconut-butter.html)
Have you tried Wildnerness Family Naturals, Sabertooth? I find it to be way better than Artisana coconut butter, which makes me ill just thinking about it. I have both (I resorted to eating small bits of Artisana mixed with honey and water to get it down). I find it difficult to imagine anyone bothering with Artisana any more after trying WFN.
Even WFN is not my favorite food by any means, but I found by accident that when the room temperature is warmer and it turns to liquid it's even more palatable and digestible, so I may warm it a bit on colder days.
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paleo phil, does wfn cause you any nausea?
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I put it to a bigger test today. Ate a whole tablespoon of it in its solid state. It wasn't pleasant, but it wasn't horrendous like others. It gave me a slight feeling of malaise, which might be due to association of the taste with nausea from other coconut products, but no actual noticeable nausea. Then I warmed it to a liquid and there were no noticeable negative effects and it had a relatively neutral, very mild taste similar to Thai coconut water (though not as good), which I find to be the most palatable part of the natural coconut. I also tried this at the same time with Nutiva "cold-pressed" coconut oil and Artisana "raw" coconut butter and found that the other two still tasted nasty. There's no comparison. For me, WFN kicks their asses.
Interestingly, the WFN even looks better than the Nutiva cold-pressed. It's hard to describe, but I would say the WFN has a smoother, more uniform, softer appearance. Also interesting is that when I gently melted the Nutiva, it brought out more of a burnt flavor, which suggests to me that they do use heat in their processing.
The key seems to be to get a "centrifuged" coconut oil rather than "cold-pressed." I discovered that Nutiva does have a centrifuged version, but it's currently out of stock: http://nutiva.com/coconut-info/nutiva-raw-centrifuge-coconut-oil-is-out-of-stock/ (http://nutiva.com/coconut-info/nutiva-raw-centrifuge-coconut-oil-is-out-of-stock/)
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paleo phil, thanks so much for the info! i've been doing all sorts of 'experiments' to get coconut oil to work as a fat for me. i'm going to give it a try!
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Good luck, fair warning that even the WFN is not particularly appealing to me, taste-wise. Instead of a staple, it would be more accurate to say I'm considering it as a secondary or tertiary food for me; something I'm considering keeping in stock but probably not eating a lot of. I like having as many healthy fat options as possible.
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Do you know what do they expeller press it with?
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I don't know, but I know that I have read that expeller pressing can generate heat and I just found an article that said that "cold-pressing" only keeps temps below 120 degrees (http://www.ehow.com/facts_5829685_expeller-pressed-vs_-cold-pressed.html (http://www.ehow.com/facts_5829685_expeller-pressed-vs_-cold-pressed.html)), which I find is more than enough heat to diminish the quality of many foods.
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120° F = 49° C
But your link states :
Expeller pressing generates heat in the range of 140 to 210 degrees F, and this heat is not regulated.
That is 60 to 99° C, not 49° C ! -d
Yeah, "cold pressed" oils are not raw : the pressure extracting process elevates the temperature and generates abnormal molecules, just like cooking. Anyway, our paleo ancestors could hardly extract, collect, store and drink oils, could they ? Are apes in the wild drinking oils ? -\
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Anyway, our paleo ancestors could hardly extract, collect, store and drink oils, could they ? Are apes in the wild drinking oils ? -\
our paleo ancestors were not raised to eat by the same food pyramid guide as I was. 20+ years on 'rubbish' (as td would say ;D ) and i'm not digesting animal fats well at all. coconut oil seems to be easy to digest for now so i'm not fueling off of carbs or proteins... i can tell the difference when i workout. raw butter seems okay too (i know it's dairy, but it works for now), but it will be out of season soon.
if you have a better suggestion, iguana, please do let me know.
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if you have a better suggestion, iguana, please do let me know.
Plain natural matured-in-jar olives, plain coconuts, avocados, safus, almonds, macadamias, pecans, walnuts, hazelnuts, pine nuts, brazil nuts, sunflower seeds, chufas, raw peanuts, cold-extracted cashew nuts, pistachios, durians...
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120° F = 49° C
But your link states :
That is 60 to 99° C, not 49° C ! -d
That's for "expeller pressing." Under "cold pressing" it says "Cold-pressed oils are kept below 120 degrees F during the expeller-pressing process."
Yeah, "cold pressed" oils are not raw : the pressure extracting process elevates the temperature and generates abnormal molecules, just like cooking.
Quite correct, and it's amazing how much better "centrifuged" coconut oil is than "cold pressed."
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paleophil, are there brands available that are centrifuged? i am enjoying dried coconut flakes, i basically use them as a snack, chew them up and spit most of the fiber out...so basically making coconut oil in my mouth
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Yes, Wilderness Family Naturals and Nutiva sell centrifuged coconut oil (Nutiva is currently out of stock), as I mentioned above. I've only tried the WFN brand of centrifuged oil. For Nutiva, I've only tried their "cold-pressed" version (which is actually heated, they only claim that it doesn't reach a temp of 120 degrees F).
Iguana, FYI - it's not currently legal to sell truly raw almonds in the USA (http://naturemoms.com/blog/2007/10/24/the-death-of-the-raw-almonds-take-action-now/ (http://naturemoms.com/blog/2007/10/24/the-death-of-the-raw-almonds-take-action-now/)). The only state I've seen so far with reports of durians being sold in the USA is California. I found that buying internationally, including from the source you gave, costs more than I'm interested in paying (which may not be an issue for some folks, of course).
FWIW, I do eat the meat and water from coconuts, but I am considering adding centrifuged coconut oil as another food. I'm not into Paleo or Instincto re-enactment, so the fact that Stone Agers didn't consume oils in and of itself doesn't bother me. I've also been experimenting with pastured butter, which Stone Agers also didn't consume. In my case, I didn't notice any benefits from including nuts, including truly raw nuts, in my diet (unless you count coconut as a sort of "nut," given that the colloquial definition of "nut" is vague), and do experience some mild negatives if I eat too much raw nuts (particularly raw or "raw-blanched" peanuts, though I do believe that some people can handle eating plenty of them fine). To each his own.
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Iguana, FYI - it's not currently legal to sell truly raw almonds in the USA (http://naturemoms.com/blog/2007/10/24/the-death-of-the-raw-almonds-take-action-now/ (http://naturemoms.com/blog/2007/10/24/the-death-of-the-raw-almonds-take-action-now/)).
!! >D :o
Then there are still some solutions :
- find a outlaw-grower
- maraud almonds in an cultivated orchard (wear a bullet-proof vest as a safety precaution)
- collect almonds from abandoned trees (there are plenty abandoned almond trees in southern Europe – if there are none in US, fly to Perpignan or Barcelona)
- drive to Mexico and buy almonds there
- buy a land and plant almond trees (you'll have to wait a few years to have your own raw almonds) :(
- buy an orchard with already grown almonds trees :)
- write to Obama and ask him the freedom to buy raw almonds ;D
The only state I've seen so far with reports of durians being sold in the USA is California.
I found fresh whole durians in China Town of NYC and other US big cities as well as in Toronto. That was in 1993, perhaps now there are no more or they must be irradiated for import?
In my case, I didn't notice any benefits from including nuts, including truly raw nuts, in my diet
What kind of benefit do you expect from a foodstuff except nourishing yourself?
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LOL, good jokes. It's only a little over 3,000 km to Mexico from here. :o ;D
Thanks for the info about durians. If I'm ever in NYC or Toronto again I'll keep an eye peeled for them.
What kind of benefit do you expect from a foodstuff except nourishing yourself?
I didn't say "expect"--I just reported that I haven't noticed the sorts of benefits from raw nuts that I get from other raw Paleo foods. A mostly raw Paleo diet has provided much more in the way of benefits for me than just nourishment. You can read my journal if you're curious about it. Heck, I could eat a SAD if all I needed and wanted was nourishment.
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there are actually plenty of walnuts and pecans ripe and free for the picking from the western slope of colorado all the way down through mexico....seriously all over the place, i picked em and sold em at the market last year $4/lb, just what i scored off the side walk
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I didn't say "expect"--I just reported that I haven't noticed the sorts of benefits from raw nuts that I get from other raw Paleo foods. A mostly raw Paleo diet has provided much more in the way of benefits for me than just nourishment. You can read my journal if you're curious about it. Heck, I could eat a SAD if all I needed and wanted was nourishment.
A SAD diet nourish but at the same time brings toxins. Suppressing the countless chemicals substances (either synthetic or produced by heating organic molecules) and other “abnormal” molecules it contains, we suppress a major cause (commonly the main cause) of health troubles. 8)
A raw (paleo) diet is the normal diet, the one that about all the animals (including hominids and humans) have ever had since they appeared on Earth, millions or hundreds millions years ago. The duration of Neolithic and modern era being about nil in comparison, Neolithic and modern diets should be considered as abnormal. >D
Thus, it is illogical (it doesn’t makes sense, if you prefer, Jessica!) to consider that a normal diet brings any benefit. It is rather that an abnormal diet causes troubles and by suppressing the cause, these troubles eventually disappear.
Metaphorically, it is like if we had always filled the tank of our car with a wrong fuel and then finally switch to the right fuel, the one the engine had been engineered for. Is the right fuel bringing benefits or was it the wrong fuel causing troubles? ;)
Cheers
François
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A SAD diet nourish but at the same time brings toxins.
Yes, thanks for making my point that eating nuts and other foods is not only about nourishment. It's also about toxins and other factors, the overall effects and aspects of foods above and beyond nourishment, else I could just as well eat a SAD diet. Raw nuts have been one of the lesser Paleo fuels for me, whereas for you it sounds like they have been a premium fuel. So it makes sense that they would form a more important part of your diet than mine.
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Raw nuts have been one of the lesser Paleo fuels for me, whereas for you it sounds like they have been a premium fuel. So it makes sense that they would form a more important part of your diet than mine.
Not sure nuts are a premium fuel for me as I generally prefer animal foods such as shellfish, fish, meat and eggs. But if it happens that I have no animal food at the moment or if I’m still hungry after eating some RAF and then some veggies, I may eat nuts next. They don’t cause any troubles nor any digesting discomfort as long as we avoid eating too many, stopping intake as soon as a feeling that we have enough appears. Thus, it’s one more indication that they can be considered paleo.
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Not sure nuts are a premium fuel for me as I generally prefer animal foods such as shellfish, fish, meat and eggs.
Same here, thanks for sharing.
But if it happens that I have no animal food at the moment or if I’m still hungry after eating some RAF and then some veggies, I may eat nuts next. They don’t cause any troubles nor any digesting discomfort as long as we avoid eating too many, stopping intake as soon as a feeling that we have enough appears. Thus, it’s one more indication that they can be considered paleo.
I do consider them "Paleo"--even "jungle peanuts" and perhaps ordinary raw "peanuts" (and you are one of the few Paleos that agree with me on that)--and I suspect that it's the disorder in my own biological systems due to decades of my and my parents' eating grains, pasteurized dairy, vegetable oils, etc., that results in no noticeable benefits from, and poor digestion of, nuts.
For people like me who obtain no noticeable benefits from nuts, and even problems from more than small amounts of nuts, centrifuged coconut oil may be another option to try. Yes, it's not purely raw Paleo, but if it helps, I'm not going to knock it. In my case, the jury is still out. We'll see.
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I've ordered and eaten about 8-10 gallons of it over the last few years.