Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Poncho on September 14, 2013, 12:09:02 am
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(This topic has been split from Aajonus Vonderplanitz DEAD at 66 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/aajonus-vonderplanitz-dead-at-66/) — Iguana)
There's no reason to conspire.
The 'opposing side' is composed of sick people.
They need help, that's the only way.
Humans have all this false power, and when they have this power (that they absolutely do not deserve), the only way to 'defeat' them is by helping them reach health. Fighting fire with fire only makes a bigger fire, right.
They are just sick.
We need to make them learn, for the good of everyone.
Think of the greatness this world would be capable of, if the 'leaders' understood?
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You're absolutely right.
We have a huge and difficult task...
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There's no reason to conspire.
The 'opposing side' is composed of sick people.
They need help, that's the only way.
Humans have all this false power, and when they have this power (that they absolutely do not deserve), the only way to 'defeat' them is by helping them reach health. Fighting fire with fire only makes a bigger fire, right.
They are just sick.
We need to make them learn, for the good of everyone.
Think of the greatness this world would be capable of, if the 'leaders' understood?
the only way to get rid of these parasites trying to control us is to bring them to trial and bring justice for the crimes they have committed.
The leaders will never understand, they have a very potent hatred for the common people. THis must be understood. Look into eugenics and luciferianism (high level freemasonry/the mystery school in general.)for more info their attitudes towards us. They been thinking this way for so long that I think its hardwired into their genes by now.
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If we try to teach them and fail,
we must find new ways of teaching.
We want them to learn, it's on us.
Its not fair, but neither is life, right?
You keep touching flames with the misinformed,
and I'll keep trying to find a way to teach them.
Doing things properly benefits EVERYONE and EVERYTHING.
They just don't know how. The brainwashing goes back generations and generations and generations.
The world now is just the outcome of some kind of outrageous game of broken telephone that never stops.
The fact that you blame your own kind for their own suffering is ridiculous.
They don't KNOW.
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Poncho, I think you have such a beautiful heart. I believe it is exactly how you say here. They do not know. That is all about love... and when you want to help you need love. It never gives up. It even sacrifies something for others to help. I do not believe in violence one second. It has to happend the other way around. I do not care if it looks impossible, because I do believe in magic. :)
I still think it is possible Aajonus got murdered. I do not know. But anyways, we need to go on. He was such a blessing for many, and will continue to help people.
Maybe many today have an issue with their brain... that the two halves do not work together somehow.. but are too separated? Hmm. Maybe there are so many calcified pineal glands. -[
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I'm so glad to hear that haha, I really am used to being the crazy one that no one listens to.
People all around me think I'm absolutely ridiculous, so I'm learning ways to teach them. Its working!
But it's very slow, and not 100% at all. We need to all work on this.
The probability that he was murdered, is all the more reason for us to work as hard as we can to teach.
The world needs to know, because the world is connected through energy.
I used to think that was ridiculous, my mom would always say it haha, but then I did more research.
I learned that obviously she didn't understand it, but that there was actually so much to it all along.
The fact that energy changes the actual structure of water, and all life is made of primarily water,
it all makes sense. Relate that to almost anything and you can begin to understand that thing in ways you couldn't before.
Everything matters.
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This is fucking insane.. rest in peace..
This man changed my entire life.. I love him with my whole heart.
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This is fucking insane.. rest in peace..
This man changed my entire life.. I love him with my whole heart.
I'd say a lot of us have him to thank
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I'm so glad to hear that haha, I really am used to being the crazy one that no one listens to.
People all around me think I'm absolutely ridiculous, so I'm learning ways to teach them. Its working!
But it's very slow, and not 100% at all. We need to all work on this.
The probability that he was murdered, is all the more reason for us to work as hard as we can to teach.
The world needs to know, because the world is connected through energy.
I used to think that was ridiculous, my mom would always say it haha, but then I did more research.
I learned that obviously she didn't understand it, but that there was actually so much to it all along.
The fact that energy changes the actual structure of water, and all life is made of primarily water,
it all makes sense. Relate that to almost anything and you can begin to understand that thing in ways you couldn't before.
Everything matters.
You continue to amaze me Poncho. You really have gotten it...... :)
@ achillezzz, me too loves A.W. :-*
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Thanks Inger, one of my few supporters haha
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If we try to teach them and fail,
we must find new ways of teaching.
We want them to learn, it's on us.
Its not fair, but neither is life, right?
You keep touching flames with the misinformed,
and I'll keep trying to find a way to teach them.
Doing things properly benefits EVERYONE and EVERYTHING.
They just don't know how. The brainwashing goes back generations and generations and generations.
The world now is just the outcome of some kind of outrageous game of broken telephone that never stops.
The fact that you blame your own kind for their own suffering is ridiculous.
They don't KNOW.
the elites are NOT my kind. They consider themselves a different species and I agree with them. Their parasitic and ruthlessly psychopathic nature has been inbred within the bloodlines of these people for tens of thousands perhaps millions (or more?) of years. Evil is part of their DNA. Very few of them ever stray from this path of evil. Iv only heard of one so far. A Rothschild who did want to play the game and ended up being found strangled by his bathrobe in his hotel room. Those with eyes to see know he didnt hang himself.
You cant fix these people this is what they are unless we bring them to trial at every move they make humanity will never see the end of this curse. Any true student of history knows there is no way around this cold hard fact.
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I'm so glad to hear that haha, I really am used to being the crazy one that no one listens to.
People all around me think I'm absolutely ridiculous, so I'm learning ways to teach them. Its working!
But it's very slow, and not 100% at all. We need to all work on this.
The probability that he was murdered, is all the more reason for us to work as hard as we can to teach.
The world needs to know, because the world is connected through energy.
I used to think that was ridiculous, my mom would always say it haha, but then I did more research.
I learned that obviously she didn't understand it, but that there was actually so much to it all along.
The fact that energy changes the actual structure of water, and all life is made of primarily water,
it all makes sense. Relate that to almost anything and you can begin to understand that thing in ways you couldn't before.
Everything matters.
I will take care of this question of whether or not water is effected by our emotions very soon. I will replicate the japanese experiment with the two glasses of water of which one became moldy and i encourage everyone else to do the same.
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I will take care of this question of whether or not water is effected by our emotions very soon. I will replicate the japanese experiment with the two glasses of water of which one became moldy and i encourage everyone else to do the same.
You can keep hanging out in the past, sure.
I'm going forward. The little details aren't visible when you're looking at the big picture.
I mean really, what happens if everyone listens to you and does unprofessional water experiments at home and the results are not what the scientists found?
Evil is part of my fucking DNA, you calling me a bad person? Come on.
I used to eat like shit, my lifestyle was garbage. A judgemental fool like yourself would have deemed me 'unfixable', certainly. You go do useless experiments now, I'll keep doing my best to change things. My task is larger, maybe impossible, but I've got more time than you do.
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I don't know how much time you've spent in court? But court time breeds animosity, deep feelings of anger and revenge and a whole host of other spiraling negative emotions. There may a result one could say was victorious, but does little to change the other's human nature, or lack of. Maybe you could stop half way in the middle of your next email and take stock of just how your whole body feels. That might be a clue as to how effective you'll be in positively effecting another. Sorry to be the one to hold up the mirror, but thought it might help.
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The experiment is underway. I will inform as to the results when completed. Hopefully more of you do it with me so theres more data. Its a very simple experiment that people can do at home. If your not suer what im talking about look at the work of dr emoto.
Evil a part of your dna? I was talking about the elites who killed any of their own breed who werent ferocious enough. Its in their dna.
You are just a peasant like the rest of us.
I was talking about the evil of these people being unfixable, not discussing anything diet or health related. Sorry if someone understood.
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In the chapter entitled The Biology of Belief: The Real “Secret” in Primal Body, Primal Mind, Nora Gedgaudes writes:
Fear, anger, and anxiety in the brain generate an erratic EEG (electrical brain signal pattern) along with a heart–mind incoherence pattern not at all compatible with intellectual processing or the higher-order thinking that one can associate with being functional in the world. Fear, anger, and anxiety effectively do away with clear thinking. Choosing to focus on emotions such as compassion, appreciation, gratitude, empathy, and love (if, in fact, love can be relegated to so trivial and transient a thing as emotion) enhances healthy coherence, mental clarity, higher-order thinking, and expanded ability.... The degree to which we can release (not simply sublimate) nonconstructive, self-limiting influences such as fear and anger and cultivate a focus on love, gratitude, and compassion is the degree to which we have greater access to our fullest resourcefulness and potential.
...learning to effectively release negative thoughts and feelings is actually much easier and more natural than trying to force positive thinking (check out The Sedona Method by Hale Dwoskin or go to www.sedona.com (http://www.sedona.com)). By simply letting go—which is so simple it can seem difficult to some—you can instantly free yourself from a negative thought, belief, or habit, rather than trying to force positivity. When you release the negative (not simply suppress it), then what is left over is more naturally positive with a whole lot less effort. It can be as simple as unclenching and gently releasing a pebble from your hand. Try it; you might be surprised at just how easy it is.
Gedgaudas CNS, CNT, Nora T. (2011-05-27). Primal Body, Primal Mind: Beyond the Paleo Diet for Total Health and a Longer Life (pp. 228-229). Inner Traditions Bear & Company. Kindle Edition.
The Sedona Method is a very nice way to get and stay mellow through life's ups and downs.
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I will take care of this question of whether or not water is effected by our emotions very soon. I will replicate the japanese experiment with the two glasses of water of which one became moldy and i encourage everyone else to do the same.
Im skeptical about this as well. It should be easy for anyone to bless and freeze water then examine under a chemistry set microscope to prove or disprove.
Though sound vibrations do make water dance beautifully.
You cant fix these people this is what they are unless we bring them to trial at every move they make humanity will never see the end of this curse. Any true student of history knows there is no way around this cold hard fact.
The devil is in all of us, to recognize the existence of evil in another you must have it within yourself.
Man is the ultimate predatory animal who learned many generations ago that to be successful it was a generally good policy to kill and devour anything and anyone who wasn't apart of your tribe.
Though this has been base instinct has been waning and was toned down by the development of society and civilization, it still remains a part of our nature, and those who are able to dominate will continue to dominate according to the fashion of the day. It does no good to place labels like evil upon those great apes who are in the dominant position of our society. They are acting according to their nature and its foolish to think they can act any differently, even if it would benefit the whole of humanity for them to change.
All that us children of a lesser god can do about the inequity of the worlds power structures is to focus on developing the other side of our peaceful nature to protect us from the ravaging beast of the top rankin. There is a nature in us just as strong and powerful, that is willing to cooperate with others and work as a team, to serve and protect its fellow beings.
There are two wolfs, one good and one evil, that battle eternally for the soul of humanity. Instead of hating and blaming the bad wolf for its evil nature we could spend our efforts feeding the good wolf.
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I was talking about the evil of these people being unfixable, not discussing anything diet or health related. Sorry if someone understood.
“These people”, like the average Joe, have grown, have been educated and live in our agrarian-industrial civilization, whose social organization and cooked grain and dairy based diet is a factory of neurotic, materialist, possessive and power thirsty people.
Thus, all this is diet and health related.
The elites are not your kind? What kind are they? Reptilians? ;D
The devil is in all of us, to recognize the existence of evil in another you must have it within yourself.
Man is the ultimate predatory animal who learned many generations ago that to be successful it was a generally good policy to kill and devour anything and anyone who wasn't apart of your tribe.
Though this has been base instinct has been waning and was toned down by the development of society and civilization, it still remains a part of our nature, and those who are able to dominate will continue to dominate according to the fashion of the day.
No, the devil is not inherently in all of us. The devil came into us with the changes in social organization and in diet initially sparked by using the fire for hunting and cooking. This finally resulted in the disaster of agriculture which implied the transformation of the nomadic small tribes of egalitarians foragers into unmanageably large settled groups of land owning, possessive farmers.
Understanding this is an essential breakthrough enabled by our raw paleo experience. We no longer have to be ashamed to be human beings.
Humans are not devils. Agriculture, neolithic-modern social structures and grain based diets make humans devils.
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Humans are not devils. Agriculture, neolithic-modern social structures and grain based diets make humans devils.
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The devil is in all of us
No, the devil is not inherently in all of us.
People are simply lazy. They gravitate towards convenience and bunch of little things that give temporary pleasures even if it is detrimental to their health.
Everyone knows smoking kills. Yet people keep smoking.
Everyone knows fast food is not healthy. Yet almost everyone eats it.
These and other similar habits are incredibly difficult to break. Convenience factor trumps facts almost 100%. There are very few exceptions like us on this forum who found it because of health issues. There even fewer exceptions of those who never had health issues.
Reality is people still going to consume junk even if they know it is bad.
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Reality is people still going to consume junk even if they know it is bad.
You haven't put much thought into this, have you? Best not say that you did, because that would only lead to your own embarrassment. I was one of those junk food eating people, now I am not. My boyfriend was a smoking junk food eating person, now he is not. The list goes on. Anyone can change, they just need to be taught properly. We're generally poisoned from birth with cooked foods and stupid ideologies. Changing can be hard, but is always possible.
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I was one of those junk food eating people, now I am not.
Most people are not like you. You'll see that when you get older.
Average person is not interested in change. I see that all over around me. I work in a busy office. I had numerous discussions with my co-workers about vaccines dangers and that I have not had one in over 20 years. They all agree with me and next day they all go and get their shots.
You have no idea how many times I tell my wife and my parents about dangers eating bread. They do it anyway.
Even Lex was saying his wife still follows her old diet.
Most people in the world are like my parents and Lex's wife. They just don't change.
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Humans are not devils. Agriculture, neolithic-modern social structures and grain based diets make humans devils.
I beg to differ on that point, and insist that Humans developed both angelic and demonic traits long before the neolithic age.
Humans have evolved a killer instinct, it gives us the capacity to be totally ruthless under the right circumstances, and has been a great asset to our survival as a species, though I think labeling this part of our nature evil and comparing the instinctive behavior of modern man to paleo man may be a bit difficult. We evolved from blood thirsty savage breeds of a cannibalistic apes, who were also capable of the most specialized care and attention to ones own kin. In fact the part of humanity that makes us most caring toward our loved ones is also responsible for triggering the most viscous animistic killer behavior if we feel our loved ones are threatened.
A perversion of these instincts is where evil in the modern world arises, its a separate issue from diet. We no longer exist as tribes people, and now there are nations of people all conglomerated together and expected to live and act like herd animals. Only our instincts wont allow us to be so easily cowed, and so many will form allegiances and loyalties with others like themselves and separate from the main herd to form gangs. They then can detach from feeling any loyalty to human kind as a whole and become only concerned about the interest that serve their particular gang. The gangs of today are extremely sophisticated and work in complex systems. All gangs are not entirely evil and many work for egalitarian goals, though since many gangs both good and evil exist and work in often obscure ways, it is impossible to know exactly what side has the upper hand in the world of 7 billion bedeviled monkeys. It seems apparent that the influence of gangs on our world is eminence.
Has anyone seen gangs of chimpanzees hunt down and kill with their bare hands other outsider chimps in cold blood. This is the primal basis for what the empire of today is doing in on a world wide stage. There were paleo tribes peoples who would make chimpanzees, or the modern day mercenary look tame by comparison. Just imagine our ancestors having to share a habitat with both Neanderthals and cro-mag-dons, {three of the most viscous predictory apes to ever walk the planet}. At times they killed and ate each other in the most savage ways. There must of been turf wars and epic battles with spears and rock axes flying.... rape, pillage and plundering, Long before the days of cooked foods.
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Has anyone seen gangs of chimpanzees hunt down and kill with their bare hands other outsider chimps in cold blood. This is the primal basis for what the empire of today is doing in on a world wide stage. There were paleo tribes peoples who would make chimpanzees, or the modern day mercenary look tame by comparison. Just imagine our ancestors having to share a habitat with both Neanderthals and cro-mag-dons, {three of the most viscous predictory apes to ever walk the planet}. At times they killed and ate each other in the most savage ways. There must of been turf wars and epic battles with spears and rock axes flying.... rape, pillage and plundering, Long before the days of cooked foods.
Such conjectures have been completely and thoroughly debunked in "Sex at Dawn"
by Christopher Ryan, PhD, and Cacilda Jethá, MD, freely downloadable here http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/ (http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/)
It’s a great read that every paleo dieter should read, one of the 2 or 3 best books I ever read and even perhaps the best of them all.
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Has anyone seen gangs of chimpanzees hunt down and kill with their bare hands other outsider chimps in cold blood
I assume the answer to this rhetorical question is no. However, I was under the impression that egalitarian paleo peoples acted in an almost synonymous manner to chimps, i.e. no possessions, peaceful, mostly matriarchal, minor brawls without murder or intention of murder, etc. I may be wrong but I figured that was a large part of the premise of Sex at Dawn.
Even these chimps that you ask if they murder like humans do, in fact they do, as Goodall noted, which was after the limitation on food was placed. In other words, in a foraging society, chimps are peaceful and egalitarian, but in a society with limited resources (agricultural) they begin to claim possession and fight over it, even to the death.
Risking talking about utopia, it seems a society where nobody owns anything and all is shared is how people are designed to work. There is, of course, a large stipulation, in that resources have to be unlimited, or at least feel that way, so sharing is promoted.
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Such conjectures have been completely and thoroughly debunked in "Sex at Dawn"
by Christopher Ryan, PhD, and Cacilda Jethá, MD, freely downloadable here http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/ (http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/)
It’s a great read that every paleo dieter should read, one of the 2 or 3 best books I ever read and even perhaps the best of them all.
haha you hopped right in there on the same idea. Maybe if we keep bringing it up others will decide to try it. I agree with you entirely on this one, truly amazing book. I try to tell whoever I meet that I think may have an open mind about it. I'm careful as the idea that people are basically supposed to live like hippies and seem to have the most success that way can really piss people off.
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Debunked my ass....
What is the opinion of sheep to a wolf?
We could split hares on the subject, and get nowhere fast, but I would rather clarify the difference of opinion
I just don't see how you can disagree about our violent past. Even in times of relative plenty our ape-man ancestors killed and ate other members of their own species. There have been human skulls found from paleolithic times that were smashed open to get the brains out.
Yes, there likely were great numbers of peaceful people during paleo times who lived in the garden of Eden environment of plenty like noble savages.
Its good to focus on the ideal environment and work on ways to nurture our better nature.
Studies have found that people with a genetic tendency toward violence, are actually more likely to be peaceful and caring if raised in a peaceful environment. Evil has an environmentally triggered on and off switch. It is a survival mechanism that is latent even in the most docile and gentile of people. Just like in the violent behavior of the pit bull, evil only comes out under certain provocations.
Yes during times of plenty there was a lot of sex at dawn, Im not denying our paradisaical roots, all I was saying is that there were in our evolutionary history times when food was scarce, the ice ages had set in, neanderthals and other sub breeds were all competing for limited resources, and those humans who possess the right balance between a strong killer instincts and the capacity for egalitarian cooperative behavior had the advantage in the evolutionary long run.
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Even in times of relative plenty our ape-man ancestors killed and ate other members of their own species. There have been human skulls found from paleolithic times that were smashed open to get the brains out.
And the people who were being eaten may well have died while hunting, or from disease, accidents, or predation. I've not seen any evidence that says that the people doing the eating were also the ones doing the killing, have you?
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Skulls can be cracked for many more reasons that cannibalism. What evidence is it there another human caused that?
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Skulls can be cracked for many more reasons that cannibalism. What evidence is it there another human caused that?
The evidence for cannibalism, among humans AND Neanderthals, is overwhelming. I wouldn't dare argue against that, although I admit that I find it a little disturbing. The question is, how did they die?
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Yes I didn't mean that its not likely that it was cannibalism, I have no clue frequency or relativity. I just mean that there are many nasty predators that can break skulls, humans can fall off cliffs on their head, running from a predator and get hit by a tree, and many others. Ever heard of the Darwin awards? People get killed in all sorts of creative ways, and I'd rather not assume a boring way like cannibalism. ;)
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Most people are not like you. You'll see that when you get older.
Average person is not interested in change. I see that all over around me. I work in a busy office. I had numerous discussions with my co-workers about vaccines dangers and that I have not had one in over 20 years. They all agree with me and next day they all go and get their shots.
You have no idea how many times I tell my wife and my parents about dangers eating bread. They do it anyway.
Even Lex was saying his wife still follows her old diet.
Most people in the world are like my parents and Lex's wife. They just don't change.
this is 100% my experience
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Studies have found that people with a genetic tendency toward violence, are actually more likely to be peaceful and caring if raised in a peaceful environment. Evil has an environmentally triggered on and off switch. It is a survival mechanism that is latent even in the most docile and gentile of people. Just like in the violent behavior of the pit bull, evil only comes out under certain provocations.
This is true. Although the elites have a genetic predisposition to evil this must be nurtured from their earliest years with things such as ritualized sexual abuse or getting raped in boarding school. These events are very important in devloping the bloodthirst of the elites and making sure that the abused becomes the abuser.
Im not sure what the elites would call themselves. They must have royal blood. Whatever they are they would never mix their blood without someone not descended from their ancient bloodlines. They are very inbred this is why there are so many genetic diseases related to royalty all around the world.
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Debunked my ass....
What is the opinion of sheep to a wolf?
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I just don't see how you can disagree about our violent past
The point is about intra-species violence, not about violence between species. Please read the book "Sex at Dawn" of Christopher Ryan, PhD, and Cacilda Jethá, MD, freely downloadable here http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/ (http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/) . It precisely answers to your arguments with tons of references.
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Are humans intrinsically diabolical?
My answer: no.
But humans can certainly be trained to be diabolical, and once so trained they can be pretty damn diabolical. They can also be un-trained though, and doing so seems like a worthwhile pursuit, in my opinion.
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Most people are not like you. You'll see that when you get older.
Fuck really?
Its the same concept as adopting a previously abused dog.
You've got your work cut out for you, but with complete dedication, even the most deranged dog can become man's best friend.
To think that human beings are any different, is either insulting to us, or thinking too much of us.
Try not to forget that in the end, were just animals.
And like pit-bulls, we have been bred wrong for so long, that most 'good' people think we're a lost cause.
It's just a misinformed thing to think.
http://love-a-bull.org (http://love-a-bull.org)
http://www.angelcitypits.org/i-love-my-pit-bull-psa (http://www.angelcitypits.org/i-love-my-pit-bull-psa)
http://www.petfinder.com/pet-adoption/dog-adoption/reasons-why-pit-bulls-rule/ (http://www.petfinder.com/pet-adoption/dog-adoption/reasons-why-pit-bulls-rule/)
You can keep looking at the bad if you'd like,
but you're wasting your time.
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Not every trainer knows how to rehabilitate every pitbull or other abused dog with perfect success. Also, we are talking a domesticated dog that is slightly short of property (technically yes property, but loved property).
I feed my dogs raw. Does that mean it's the dog's choice? No. A person's diet is their own choice. And it reflects in their dogs' diets.
What you are comparing that to is the same as saying a dog has a choice in their diet which they simply do not. Their owner chooses for them. Maybe you'd like to choose someone else's diet for them?
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I feed my dogs raw. Does that mean it's the dog's choice? No. A person's diet is their own choice. And it reflects in their dogs' diets.
The fact that you believe humans typically choose their own diets... oh god.
So I suppose you blame individuals for their smoking habits? haha
Do you really blame deranged serial killers for 'choosing' to do what they do?
Perhaps you blame everyone for simply not making the right choices, as if the choice was really theirs, and not simply a product of the events of their lives up to that point? What would you say a human is, other than a direct product of everything that has happened to them, been taught to them, and happened around them, throughout their lives?
Everything changes us. But we have the ability to overcome it all, when we are properly taught the truth.
Are you, by any chance, a high-ranking government official?
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Are you, by any chance, a high-ranking government official?
That is simply rude and unnecessary. You are obviously no longer in this conversation for the sake of being open-minded. Have a nice day.
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That is simply rude and unnecessary. You are obviously no longer in this conversation for the sake of being open-minded. Have a nice day.
Yes right, because your mind is closed, its me who must leave due to my mind being closed... very well overseer
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But humans can certainly be trained to be diabolical, and once so trained they can be pretty damn diabolical. They can also be un-trained though, and doing so seems like a worthwhile pursuit, in my opinion.
Yes, and the social organization of every civilization since the Neolithic has always been an excellent training ground to make people neurotic and aggressive: private property, social rules and laws, money, army, police, judicial system, governments with chiefs and kings, overpopulation and huge concentrations of population in towns, dogmatic religions, social inequalities, famines when crops failed, sexual frustration… and last but not least, exciting abnormal substances in wheat and cooked food. -d
The population of the planet is estimated at less than 5 million during the Paleolithic era. Without private property, with immense unspoiled territories almost void of humans but packed with plenty of natural resources, what would have been worth fighting for?
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Yes, and the social organization of every civilization since the Neolithic has always been an excellent training ground to make people neurotic and aggressive: private property, social rules and laws, money, army, police, judicial system, governments with chiefs and kings, overpopulation and huge concentrations of population in towns, dogmatic religions, social inequalities, famines when crops failed, sexual frustration… and last but not least, exciting abnormal substances in wheat and cooked food. -d
The population of the planet is estimated at less than 5 million during the Paleolithic era. Without private property, with immense unspoiled territories almost void of humans but packed with plenty of natural resources, what would have been worth fighting for?
We need nature to intervene
I wonder why it hasnt yet
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No, the devil is not inherently in all of us. The devil came into us with the changes in social organization and in diet initially sparked by using the fire for hunting and cooking. This finally resulted in the disaster of agriculture which implied the transformation of the nomadic small tribes of egalitarians foragers into unmanageably large settled groups of land owning, possessive farmers.
Humans are not devils. Agriculture, neolithic-modern social structures and grain based diets make humans devils.
I could not have said it any better! l)
..More, this is a kind of question many scientist throughout the time asked themselves and the results were more violence, more violations, oppressions and slavery in attempt to "have this evil tamed".
Back then we justifyed those abuses with the use of religions, saying that devils possessed bodies of people having them do evil things," today" with the advent of the new techno messiah, we justify with mental illnesses and treat them with synthetic chemicals.
But are we really dealing with the core issue? Not even a bit.
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We need nature to intervene
I wonder why it hasnt yet
Well, how can you say it did not? :)
Are you waiting for some kind of a grand style catastrophic event?
Nature is "slowly" working everyday, every minute, every second.
She is alive, she responds to us, I can feel her better I am in the forest all day..
Perhaps it looks/feels like dead or defeated to those who spend their time disconnected from her.
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Diabolical is in the eye of the beholder.
The evidence for cannibalism, among humans AND Neanderthals, is overwhelming. I wouldn't dare argue against that, although I admit that I find it a little disturbing. The question is, how did they die?
Honestly IDK, we are condensing eons of events into speculative eggshells, but from anecdotal evidence based on what warring tribal humans have been known to do, I think its a safe assumption that head hunting existed long before the neolithic age turned humanity evil.
The point is about intra-species violence, not about violence between species. Please read the book "Sex at Dawn" of Christopher Ryan, PhD, and Cacilda Jethá, MD, freely downloadable here http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/ (http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6191785/) . It precisely answers to your arguments with tons of references.
Im under attack , Trojans are at my gateway.....My filters wont let me download the book, anyway there is still much I doubt that the book could address in regards to our current predicament. Feel free to explain on this thread anything that would persuade me to think differently.
Though I don't think we disagree on things, only we are looking at different issues. Sure we can say that ideally humans can live in peace and harmony with each other in small tribal groups, but the reality of today's world is so far removed that it would be suicidal for most people to attempt to abandon the violent ways of the modern man.
Yes, and the social organization of every civilization since the Neolithic has always been an excellent training ground to make people neurotic and aggressive: private property, social rules and laws, money, army, police, judicial system, governments with chiefs and kings, overpopulation and huge concentrations of population in towns, dogmatic religions, social inequalities, famines when crops failed, sexual frustration… and last but not least, exciting abnormal substances in wheat and cooked food. -d
The population of the planet is estimated at less than 5 million during the Paleolithic era. Without private property, with immense unspoiled territories almost void of humans but packed with plenty of natural resources, what would have been worth fighting for?
So if this is true, what do the authors of Sex at Dawn suggest we do?
There will always be uncertainty in the future and no matter how well things seem to be going, humans still must retain the capacity to be intrinsically diabolical. Its insurance against total annihilation when times get apocalyptic. You can idealize all you want about the past, but I know Intrinsically, and am adamantly sure that my ancestors went though the inferno. We can only imagine the hell that our ancestors endured in the times that history has forgotten, though it has left its mark upon everyone who is alive today. The genetic mutations that made us who we are were forged in the fiery inferno of pain and suffering. In that struggle for survival the spirit of man; capable of braving and beating all obstacles and against all, odds was born. Neither angel or devil, Mankind will become what ever nature demands of him(or her).
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Nature is "slowly" working everyday, every minute, every second...
Not to quibble, but recent flooding and such in Colorado, increased intensity of hurricanes and typhoons, etc. collectively don't feel like nature working slowly. Maybe I'm just biased though.
...my ancestors went though the inferno...
They probably did. All people of European ancestry carry terrible historical and ancestral traumas. We can heal those though, with the right mentoring and support.
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Not to quibble, but recent flooding and such in Colorado, increased intensity of hurricanes and typhoons, etc. collectively don't feel like nature working slowly. Maybe I'm just biased though.
Hello Eric, I was referring more specifically on an "inner" level of human consciousness but even physically speaking, floods, hurricanes etc are a big thing from our point of view but little things on a universal, cosmic scale of events..
Still we have the tendency of associating Nature s fight for survival to such extra-ordinary events, - often anthropomorphisizing them to embody our own frustrations and desires to revenge - but not on ordinary ones, such as the whispers of the wind, the warmth of the sun, your body BEING alive now..
Those too are powerful whispering sounds that things are constantly moving..
We humans did create time. We are the only creature that gives time to Time.
That is why I wrote "slowly"
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Based on my experience 90% or more of the people i meet are incredibly good and wouldnt hurt anyone. This is part of the reason they have such a hard time believeing there`s people out there itching to murder billions of people and possessing the power to do it.
In fact most common criminals Iv known in my life had a general line they wouldn`t cross. Even those who were willing to hurt people to steal from them so they could eat wouldn`t want to kill someone. (unless an authority figure orders them, the intense brainwashing of militaries can override this instinct of general goodness)
It`s a very rare type of individual who was brought up in a very specific way who can kill millions of people and still feel great about it. A normal person would never be able to sleep after doing such a thing.
Perhaps it has to do with inbreeding elites go through as well. Breeders know that if you inbred too much you may end up with murderously insane animals.
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Diabolical is in the eye of the beholder.
Honestly IDK, we are condensing eons of events into speculative eggshells, but from anecdotal evidence based on what warring tribal humans have been known to do, I think its a safe assumption that head hunting existed long before the neolithic age turned humanity evil.
Yes, I agree that head hunting would have existed before the Neolithic since it was practiced recently still amongst hunters-gatherers (and even by some US soldiers during WWII and Vietnam war).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headhunting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headhunting)
Headhunting is the practice of taking and preserving a person's head after killing them. Headhunting was practiced in historic times in parts of Oceania, South and Southeast Asia, West and Central Africa, and Mesoamerica, as well as among certain tribes of the Celts, the West Germanic peoples, the Norse[1] and Scythians of ancient Europe. It occurred in Europe until the early 20th century in the Balkan Peninsula and to the end of the Middle Ages in Ireland and the Anglo-Scottish border regions.
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During World War II, Allied (specifically including American) troops occasionally collected the skulls of dead Japanese as personal trophies, as souvenirs for friends and family at home, and for sale to others. (The practice was unique to the Pacific theater; German and Italian skulls were not taken.) The Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, in September 1942, mandated strong disciplinary action for any soldier who took enemy body parts as souvenirs. Nevertheless, trophy-hunting persisted: Life, in its issue of May 22, 1944, published a photograph of a young woman posing with the autographed skull sent to her by her Navy boyfriend, causing significant public outcry
Not sure, though, that it existed before the appearance of behavioral modernity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity,) and even more doubtful that is was practiced before we controlled the fire and then used it for grilling food.
Im under attack , Trojans are at my gateway.....My filters wont let me download the book,
I sent you by e-mail the pdf of that book “Sex at Dawn”. BTW, Aura, your link for this pdf you made no longer works.
anyway there is still much I doubt that the book could address in regards to our current predicament. Feel free to explain on this thread anything that would persuade me to think differently.
This book is not meant to address our current predicament, but to try to establish a correct idea of what life would have been in the Paleolithic and debunk the recent, ill founded view that chimps and humans have always been inherently belligerent and violent against their own kind.
Though I don't think we disagree on things, only we are looking at different issues. Sure we can say that ideally humans can live in peace and harmony with each other in small tribal groups, but the reality of today's world is so far removed that it would be suicidal for most people to attempt to abandon the violent ways of the modern man.
Do modern man always have violent ways? Sometimes, yes, but religious antagonism and nationalisms compounded by exciting substances in grain and cooked foods often ignite fights and wars. Sexual repression cause frustration, neurosis, loss of extrasensory perception and thus materialism and delinquency.
So if this is true, what do the authors of Sex at Dawn suggest we do?
I don’t feel they suggest what we have to do. They don’t seem to know about raw paleo diet and they even make a mistake in stating that we have used fire to cook food since a million years ago or so. But otherwise, the content of their book overlaps at 90% what GCB had been relentlessly telling in his “metasexuality” theory since the 70’s.
If a diet adapted to our species (an instinctive raw paleo diet) tends to normalize our sexual drives, then most aggressive and violent behavior would vanish and current social rules repressing our sexuality could be relaxed. Materialistic and possessive tendencies would also be largely reduced.
There will always be uncertainty in the future and no matter how well things seem to be going, humans still must retain the capacity to be intrinsically diabolical. Its insurance against total annihilation when times get apocalyptic.
Why? On the opposite, it seems to me that cooperation has always been a better way to insure survival than deadly fights and wars, which can lead to mutual annihilation.
You can idealize all you want about the past, but I know Intrinsically, and am adamantly sure that my ancestors went though the inferno.
Yes, but there are very strong clues that this inferno followed the shift from foraging-hunting-gathering to agriculture. It doesn’t mean that the life of our pre-fire ancestors was always enjoyable, but certainly nothing comparable to the abominable cruelties committed for example by the Assyrians, the inquisitors in the middle age, or in WW II by the Nazis and the burning alive of hundreds thousand civilians by the English/US incendiary bombing of Dresden.
Neither angel or devil, Mankind will become what ever nature demands of him(or her).
And most of all, the conditions we inflict to ourselves.
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Aura, your link for this pdf you made no longer works.
I uploaded it on my google drive.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B35CHq__bQh7aUYtM0xrdW5oYzA/ (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B35CHq__bQh7aUYtM0xrdW5oYzA/)
Check it out.
As I already proposed on the "suggestion box" it would be a nice idea to have a Library/Mediateka section.