Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Exercise / Bodybuilding => Topic started by: Parker Reid on September 25, 2010, 03:23:47 am
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Whos gonna be in NYC for the barefoot run?
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rofl I'm sorry I just f**ked up your poll. I just read the title and the poll before I read your post >.> I'm afraid I'm not going to be there.
I reset it, as yours was the only vote, and changed it so people can modify their vote.
I didn't realize they were holding a barefoot run in the city. When/where?
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Announcing the
1st Annual New York City Barefoot Run
on
Sunday, October 10th
www.nycBarefootRun.com
It's about time that minimalist and barefoot runners had our own run. Well, now we do. We invite all barefoot, minimalist, or curious runners to join us for the 1st Annual New York City Barefoot Run on Sunday, October 10th at beautiful Governors Island in New York Harbor. More than just a run, this is a whole weekend of events to understand the benefits of barefoot -- walking or running. Saturday clinics, talks and presentations, a runners party, and oh yeah, there's a run too.
Come meet other leading barefoot runners, including:
Dan Lieberman, Harvard professor studying the science of running
Barefoot Ted, larger-than-life barefoot runner in the best-seller Born to Run
Jason Robillard, barefoot ultramarathoner, author of The Barefoot Running Book
Erwan Le Corre, founder of MovNat and 20-year barefoot running veteran
Daniel Howell, author of The Barefoot Book
John Durant, event host and founder of Barefoot Runners NYC
Participate in a totally unique race format: Run your distance
Everyone starts together, then run as many loops around the island (2.1 miles) as is right for you
Each runner will have to decide when to stop -- emphasizing the importance of listening to your feet and body
Wear VFFs, other minimalist shoes, or go barefoot...or even just wear normal sneakers
* Beginners are encouraged to walk 1 loop of the island *
Come cheer on Jason Robillard as he runs a barefoot marathon!
The events will last throughout the weekend
Saturday barefoot clinics in Central Park
Saturday evening Lieberman talk and panel discussion at the Terra Plana store
Sunday morning run at Governors Island
More clinics and product demonstrations after the run
The location is beautiful Governors Island in New York Harbor, with stunning views of
The Statue of Liberty
Lower Manhattan
Brooklyn and the Brooklyn Bridge
Thank you to our lead sponsor, Terra Plana's Vivobarefoot, for being so supportive of the run in its first year!
Registration for this event is limited to 500 runners. That sounds like a lot, but runs fill up quickly in NYC, so it's really not -- register soon. We have people coming in from North Carolina, Boston, New Mexico, Seattle, Michigan, and...Sweden. If you're coming into town on a budget, contact us and we will try to arrange for a member of Barefoot Runners NYC to host you.
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have fun!
what is the running surface? is it cleaned (glass, etc)?
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Im sure its in the streets and people will be wearing vibrams and such but im also sure some will be going bare, dodging glass, rocks etc. gotta have tough skin, ha.
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Way cool. Speaking of John Durant, Paleo Dude: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/265602/february-22-2010/exclusive---backstage-with-john-durant
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nwbzpyterI&feature=player_embedded
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Check out his foot skills.
The first thing I noticed when I started trail running with my five fingers was you could not run sloppy or else you would hurt yourself. Then I started to really enjoy the foot work and concentrating, really fun skipping around objects and looking where to put your feet. The terrain forces you to slow down and then you can open up on the smooth sections. Very paleo compared to all out running.
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I think once the skin on your feet hardens, you don't need to be as careful when running barefoot.
Maybe this topic should be in the Exercise / Bodybuilding section btw.
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Maybe this topic should be in the Exercise / Bodybuilding section btw.
Agreed. It's been moved there. :)
This sounds like a fun event. I can't make it this year but hopefully it's a success and they hold it again next year so I can attend. :)
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Way cool. Speaking of John Durant, Paleo Dude: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/265602/february-22-2010/exclusive---backstage-with-john-durant
Was that a right link you gave ? Anyway, the paleo man was looking porn on the last challenge so another +1
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I've been pretty much barefoot for about 3 years now. I walk about 4-5 miles every couple of days along a river wash with a paved bicycle path. It is strewn with small rocks, broken glass, old sofas, and other trash. Being black pavement it can also get very hot. At 60 I'm not much inot running but have been known to break into a jog now and again.
It took over a year, but my feet toughened up to the point that I can tollerate and even enjoy the hot pavement (except on the very hottest days when temps are over 100F (38C)), and other than the occasional glass shard, I've had no problems. When I do get a glass shard, I've found it easy to just stop, pull it out, and then resume my trek. I now detest wearing shoes and only put them on when I aboslutely have too. I carry flip-flops in the car and wear them when footwear is required. The only time I wear shoes at home is when doing metal work on the lathe or mill. The metal swarf cuts like a razor and little metal slivers are hard to see and their rough edges make them difficult to remove.
As others have mentioned, I've found that over time I've come to walk differently. My feet naturally hit the ground in a completely different way than when wearing shoes. Much lighter heal strike and toes spread just before weight is rolled onto ball of foot. When running, toes spread, ball of foot hits the ground, heal comes down lightly, then I spring off ball of foot and toes for the next stride. I now find that shoes restrict my body's natural fluid movement and when I must wear them my feet feel like they are trussed up in splints and my body is forced to compensate for the stiffness.
Lex
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Have you tried any minimal shoes for when you do have to use them Lex? If I was in the states, I'd have bought soft stars, but didn't want the hassle so sticking to vivo's
http://www.softstarshoes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=43
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Was that a right link you gave ? Anyway, the paleo man was looking porn on the last challenge so another +1
Yes, that's John the "Paleo Man." He was also featured in a NYT article on the Paleo diet, as he's also a member of the NYC Paleo diet group: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/fashion/10caveman.html
I think once the skin on your feet hardens, you don't need to be as careful when running barefoot. ...
Some of the leading barefooters (like Barefoot Ted, if I recall correctly) have reported that their soles didn't harden, so Lex's contradictory report is interesting. Maybe they mean their soles don't get really hard, just a little tougher or something like that?
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I've been pretty much barefoot for about 3 years now....
Great report Lex, thanks! I didn't realise you were also a long-standing convert to the barefoot movement! I suppose I should've guessed considering your wisdom in most matters.
That's interesting to read of the change to your walking pattern as well as running. I haven't read of this before. I think it's a good suggestion from Josh re: trying minimal shoes for occasions when footwear is necessary. I suspect for other times that, once truly barefoot, one would have no desire to wear ANY form of shoe. I'm still using VFFs, VivoBarefoots etc myself as I don't see much opportunity for being totally barefoot. I am keen to try it for my walks/runs in nature, however, and your experiences spurn me on further.
Some of the leading barefooters (like Barefoot Ted, if I recall correctly) have reported that their soles didn't harden, so Lex's contradictory report is interesting. Maybe they mean their soles don't get really hard, just a little tougher or something like that?
Yes, I seem to recall Barefoot Ken Bob stating the same (Funny how they all prefix their name with 'Barefoot' like it's some religious cult eg Father Ted!) :) A good friend of mine who spends his life travelling the world, working on organic farms etc tends to naturally go barefoot when hiking in the mountains, running, walking great distances etc. I can confirm that the soles of his feet are hard and rough like leather!
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As others have mentioned, I've found that over time I've come to walk differently. My feet naturally hit the ground in a completely different way than when wearing shoes. Much lighter heal strike and toes spread just before weight is rolled onto ball of foot. When running, toes spread, ball of foot hits the ground, heal comes down lightly, then I spring off ball of foot and toes for the next stride. I now find that shoes restrict my body's natural fluid movement and when I must wear them my feet feel like they are trussed up in splints and my body is forced to compensate for the stiffness.
Lex
I will most of the time walk forefoot-first, in addition to doing so when running.
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I like being bare foot. I go to parks sometimes, but there are sometimes unnatural things in the woods and parks here, glass etc.
Bare foot on cement I wouldn't recommend to anyone though.
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I will most of the time walk forefoot-first, in addition to doing so when running.
Thanks for the report, Miles. This is a subject that first briefly piqued my curiosity many years ago when I was watching a detective show or movie on TV in which the hero's sidekick was a Native American (I can't remember the name of the show, unfortunately). The Native American looked at the killer's footprints in sand in the desert and said that he was a native. The hero asked how he knew and the sidekick said he could tell because the footprints showed he walked "toes first." It amazed me to think that Native Americans might walk in an opposite fashion to other Americans, but it was before the Internet, so I couldn't look up anything about it and I forgot about it for a while.
Then the phenomenon of barefoot walking started to pop up on the Internet, which reminded me of that "toes first" comment. I looked into it and found that all infants start out walking toes first. However, I since have also found that people who have apparently been walking barefoot their whole lives, such as in Africa, appear to walk heel-and-midfoot-first (though with a lighter heel strike, as Lex describes) and I've found in my own barefoot and barefoot-style-shoe walking that I still strike heel-and-midfoot-first, rather than forefoot first. As a matter of fact, I don't even jog forefoot-first (it's more of a flat-footed plant) and only find myself striking forefoot-first when sprinting at high speeds.
So I haven't found much evidence of forefoot-walking (aka fox walking) among adults except in special circumstances like creeping up on animals while hunting and during dances (such as the barefooted dancing of the Zhu/wasi Bushmen and the moccasined-dancing of Native Americans). Have you found evidence of everyday forefoot-walking among adults?
I tried forcing myself to forefoot-walk and forefoot-jog to see what it would be like and found that my toes and forefoot became quite sore. However, this could be due a combination of weak connective tissues from autoimmune damage and nutritional deficiencies that stretch back to conception, rather than to forefoot walking being inherently unnatural.
...Yes, I seem to recall Barefoot Ken Bob stating the same (Funny how they all prefix their name with 'Barefoot' like it's some religious cult eg Father Ted!) :) A good friend of mine who spends his life travelling the world, working on organic farms etc tends to naturally go barefoot when hiking in the mountains, running, walking great distances etc. I can confirm that the soles of his feet are hard and rough like leather!
It may have been Ken Bob I was thinking of...I know it was at least one if not more of the fellows with "barefoot" in their name. ;D I do remember multiple people reporting this, but now I have multiple reports contradicting this, so this is an interesting puzzle. My best current guess is that the other barefooters were just calming fears that barefoot running is too dangerous unless your feet are already rock-hard.
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Been enjoying walking barefoot as much as possible for the last year. Not at work, but I don't work that much, (standby) so it's easy.
Concrete is not good and hot pavement is really not good but there is a place near the house where I can walk in the sand which is bonus.
I get splinters at home as one of my hobbys is woodworking, so I am set up for the splinters. I have a jeweler's loup to see them and a sharp tweezer and some really nice, very sharp xacto blades to do the surgery.
I noticed a couple of young girls (18 or so) in the neighbourhood walking/running BF.
The old medical sciences recommend it as there are places on the feet that need the massage and the Chinese talk of meridians that travel through the body and originate in the feet. Shoes give you repetitive strain type of injuries despite what the advertisement say. My feet are much stronger and healthier and more solid.
PP,
The moccasins that the Indians wore must have been nice. Do you know anything about them? Did they put the fur on the inside or outside? My Muskrat hat is awesome in the winter. Nothing even comes close. Sweat in -35 degrees C
BTW I will not be at the run. I voted BF as I didn't RTFQ. ;D
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BTW I will not be at the run. I voted BF as I didn't RTFQ. ;D
Heh I did this too but Djr reset it as I was the only voter.
"Bare foot on cement I wouldn't recommend to anyone though." -'Sully'
"Concrete is not good and hot pavement is really not good but there is a place near the house where I can walk in the sand which is bonus." -'Raw-al'
I have no problem with either.
"Have you found evidence of everyday forefoot-walking among adults?" -'PaleoPhil'
I don't have any evidence of others doing so no... This is just how I walk as it's the most effective for me most of the time. For speed, comfort etc... If I've just broken out of a hard run I might walk heels first for a bit to rest, but then move back to forefoot after a bit. If I've just eaten a load of food and I'm walking somewhere soon after I also have walked on my heels first.
I suppose I might be able to film my walking/running barefoot somehow to show you, if I can find a camera >.>
I dunno wtf midfoot is, sounds like bs, although I've heard lots of people say it. I don't see how you can walk midfoot, unless your foot is shaped like the shoe in the attached image.. When I say forefoot I don't mean staying on my tip-toes...
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I have walked on my forefoot first since I saw some Martial arts movie, maybe Karate Kid. Grasshopper not want rip rice paper.
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I don't have any evidence of others doing so no... This is just how I walk as it's the most effective for me most of the time. For speed, comfort etc... If I've just broken out of a hard run I might walk heels first for a bit to rest, but then move back to forefoot after a bit. If I've just eaten a load of food and I'm walking somewhere soon after I also have walked on my heels first.
I do the same. If I'm in a hurry and don't think about it I sometimes start out heel-striking but quickly switch over when I notice the impact on the ground.
I dunno wtf midfoot is, sounds like bs, although I've heard lots of people say it. I don't see how you can walk midfoot, unless your foot is shaped like the shoe in the attached image.. When I say forefoot I don't mean staying on my tip-toes...
Maybe they mean the very back of the ball of the foot? Or more of a flat strike where the ball hits a moment before, or at the same time, as the heel?
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If the forefoot hits a moment before the heel, that's forefoot imo.
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If the forefoot hits a moment before the heel, that's forefoot imo.
While I agree with you I'm trying to rationalize their description. ;)
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Josh,
Yes, I’ve tried the minimalist footwear. I have a couple of pairs of Vibram 5 Fingers and don’t like them much. They helped early on when running and my feet were still tender, but I soon abandoned them as I preferred the feel of the different textures and temperatures on my feet.
The dramatic change in footstrike pattern made a huge difference as well. When I first started barefoot, I would wear the skin off the soles of my feet in a very short distance. My feet would become very tender and I’d have to wait a week before walking again, at which point I’d quickly wear away the skin again and feet would again become sore. Over time, my footstrike and gait changed, there was much less wear on the skin and my soles held up longer and longer. I also suspect that my body reacted to the irritation by building replacement skin faster as well. This whole thing took a bit of dedication and over a year before I could easily walk 10 miles or more on asphalt and/or concrete before I notice any thinning of my soles. Asphalt and concrete are rather abrasive so they will eventually cause noticeable thinning, but I can now walk on gravel, dirt trails, and paths for hours without any problems at all.
Very hot pavement. What is unbearably hot to most people is nice and warm to me. It takes a pretty hot day for black asphalt to get too hot for me to walk on, and even then I can usually manage it for some distance as long as I can keep moving. My feet now cool off between footstrikes enough that I can walk comfortably as long as I’m in motion. I can’t prove it but have a sneaking suspicion that circulation in my feet has increased a good bit and it carries off the heat more rapidly as well. I can stand still very comfortably as long as the pavement is 125F or less. At 140F I have to keep a lively step and at 150 or above it becomes uncomfortable. At 160F or above I can cross a street but any distance and I risk blisters.
Raw-Al,
I do plenty of woodworking (table saw, routing, hand plane, you name it) and almost never wear shoes. Wood splinters just don’t get through my soles anymore like they used too. Can’t remember the last time I got a wood splinter in my foot. Metal working is another matter altogether. Metal slivers are sharp as needles and barbed like fishhooks. I’ve had to use a 45 power microscope to find the little devils and some just won’t come out until they fester – not pleasant. Hence, I wear full foot armor, long pants, and a leather apron when working on the metal lathe or mill.
Walking on glass has not proven to be as big an event as expected. Yes, I will get a shard impaled in my foot on the rare occasion, but they are quickly and easily removed as they seldom go very deep. With the change in footstrike, my feet can now quickly shift position if they feel a puncture. This keeps the glass or other sharp object from embedding very deeply and they are easily pulled out. I’ve never had a glass shard that I couldn’t remove in a couple seconds. I usually don’t even have to sit down or even look at it, just reach down, feel for it, and pull it out. I then resume whatever I was doing without giving it another thought.
Miles and DJR,
I read that a forefoot strike was the natural way to walk barefoot so tried to force myself to walk that way. Over time I gave up the quest as my body just didn’t want to do it on normal surfaces. It naturally seemed to want a light heal strike then a roll onto the ball of the foot with the toes spread followed by a push-off from the forefoot and toes.
When running ( if you can call what I do running) my body does automatically convert to a forefoot strike. As my foot comes down, toes spread, ball of foot hits first quickly followed by toes, foot rolls back lightly onto heal as it absorbs shock and then forefoot and toes push off for the next stride.
My gait will also change to forefoot strike first when walking on crushed gravel or other very uneven surfaces, but on solid surfaces like dirt, grass, asphalt, and concrete my normal gait is a light heal strike first.
Lex
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the play i was just in was outdoors, so for three months of rehearsals before the stage was set up we were just outside in an open field. while waiting for one of my scenes i'd be running around barefoot in the grass, usually playing with someone's dog. i know i didn't think about 'how' to run, i just ran around.. my heels never hit the ground until i stopped. i felt like a kid, i could have run around forever it was so enjoyable! i'm not sure how good i'd feel on the street though?.. haven't been brave enough to endure the public's opinion even if only revealed with a stare :(
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Barefoot and forefoot walking/running has been a topic of interest to me for many years and there are several questions raised here, so I hope folks don't mind if I use this opportunity to discuss the topic in depth.
Been enjoying walking barefoot as much as possible for the last year. Not at work, but I don't work that much, (standby) so it's easy.
Concrete is not good and hot pavement is really not good
Yes, Raw-Al, I've noticed that concrete is one of the worst surfaces for walking and running on in bare feet or thin-soled shoes for more than short distances that I've encountered. I seem to have mildly injured my right forefoot walking in thin-soled shoes on concrete sidewalks, so I have temporarily added some more insole padding and I try to walk as much as possible on any grass adjacent to sidewalks until my foot recovers. Interestingly, barefoot walking on concrete does not seem quite as harsh as thin-soled shoe walking. I think it's because the bare foot is more flexible and can walk more gently. I think increased cushioning in shoes may have developed in part in response to concrete sidewalks.
Blacktop, when not hot, is much less of a problem for me. It feels much softer than concrete. My father explained that blacktop is less dense, with more air pockets.
I noticed a couple of young girls (18 or so) in the neighbourhood walking/running BF.
Coincidentally, I was walking on my way to work when I saw for the first time a barefoot (and shirtless) guy jogging on the sidewalk of the main street in my neighborhood. I had only run barefoot in the woods up to that point. After seeing that I did some barefoot walking on the same main street when my right foot was really hurting me, which got some brief stares. It's amazing how rapidly the barefoot craze is taking off after an initial harsh reaction from the "experts" and the public.
PP,
The moccasins that the Indians wore must have been nice. Do you know anything about them? Did they put the fur on the inside or outside?
Depending on the location, moccasins were reportedly usually made of furless hides:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Beadedmoccasins.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Soft_moccasin.jpg
When fur was used, my understanding is that fur could be on either the inside or the outside, but I'm no expert on moccasins.
I dunno wtf midfoot is, sounds like bs, although I've heard lots of people say it. I don't see how you can walk midfoot, unless your foot is shaped like the shoe in the attached image..
I wrote "heel-and-midfoot-first", not "midfoot walk", so I'm not sure why you cut out the mention of the heel, unless you were just reminded by mention of the word midfoot that "midfoot strike" is a commonly used imperfect term, such as by Danny Dreyer, founder of ChiRunning and ChiWalking, here:
"The midfoot strike is characterized as having your heel and the ball of your foot touching the ground simultaneously with each foot strike." ("Midfoot strike, Forefoot strike or Heel strike…which one is best?" http://www.chirunning.com/blog/2008/07/25/midfoot-strike-forefoot-strike-or-heel-strike%E2%80%A6which-one-is-best)
As you can see by Danny's description, the midfoot strike is really more of a flatfoot strike centered over the midfoot. Clarity is good, but because it's both a new field of inquiry and a new lifestyle movement that involves people of diverse backgrounds, I think it's crucial to not get too hung up on the literal meanings of terminology and focus instead on what people actually mean as they try to come up with words to describe what they're talking about.
I've seen those ridiculous curved-sole shoes before and I've always considered them a bizarre abomination. The part of the midfoot that naturally contacts the ground is not the middle of the foot's arch, it's the side of the foot, as showed by this footprint image (http://www.footprintdesigns.co.nz/images/footprint.gif), and it's not curved out like those shoes, nor is there any need for it to curve out in order to contact the ground. The developers of the shoe claim it creates the proper walking motion, but it makes no sense to me to create an artificial sole surface in order to promote natural walking. The bare sole of the foot is the best surface to promote that.
In my case "heel-and-midfoot-first" walking or near-flat-foot-walking, if you prefer, is not BS, it's just what I naturally do at the current time. I don't have a video camera to show it to you, unfortunately, but this is a pretty good approximation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZk4qoTVdnQ. It's a nearly flat-footed landing with the heel lightly contacting the ground first, instead of landing on the balls of the feet or pounding on the heel like this: (http://media.npr.org/programs/bpp/images/2008/04/22/feet_primary.jpg?t=1248630771). Sometimes I'll walk with less heel and more of a flat-foot strike if I'm consciously thinking about it, as in this example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfnAP1m6lNM&NR=1, but at this time I tend to naturally revert more toward the first example. The differences are subtle, but I find that putting more emphasis on the front of the foot still causes me more soreness after more than a year of barefoot and barefoot-style-shoe walking and running. It could be a transition stage (which I initially speculated months ago) or a result of weak connective tissues, like I wrote above, and weak foot muscles. I think because I'm still a little flat footed and have weak connective tissues, it may take longer for me to adjust to forefoot walking and perhaps I may never fully adjust.
I hypothesized in this forum months ago that forefoot-first walking is the natural method (see http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/born-to-run-tarahumara-barefoot-running-pose-method-chi-running-egoscue/msg20382/#msg20382, Nov 2009) and as early as January of 2007 in the PaleoFood forum (http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?A0=PALEOFOOD), and it first occurred to me many years before that, but, when I tried to force myself to gradually shift to forefoot-first walk I ended up with sore forefeet and couldn't continue with it.
I suppose I might be able to film my walking/running barefoot somehow to show you, if I can find a camera >.>
I didn't doubt that you do it, Miles, but the more data the merrier, if you want to film it, as I am looking for more evidence to support my hypothesis of forefoot walking being the optimal natural method. However, I'm particularly interested in images or written reports of significant numbers of lifelong barefooters walking forefoot-first and thinking nothing of it, the way there is of traditional people commonly squat-sitting, "stack-sitting" and "tallstanding", rather than moderners consciously converting to it as you apparently did and like I tried to do.
When I say forefoot I don't mean staying on my tip-toes...
Of course; I can't imagine anyone walking on their tip toes for very far and I've never seen anyone make that claim, so I don't know why you're mentioning that. Are you extrapolating "tip-toes" from the TV character comment about "toes-first" walking? I think it's more likely that the scriptwriter meant forefoot-first walking, rather than someone walking on their tip-toes. When I first heard the "toes-first" comment I thought the character meant that the toes contact the ground first in forefoot walking (though I didn't think he meant tiptoes, which would be a rather funny walking style for a killer in a remote desert :D ), but I later discovered through self-experimentation that the ball of the foot does, rather than the toes.
One article did refer to fox-walking as being like "tiptoeing" and also used the midfoot-strike terminology that you understandably take issue with. Despite advocating barefoot walking, the author took a harsh stand against forefoot walking being the natural method of walking (emphases mine):
Barefoot walking is, in its mechanics, very similar to barefoot running. The idea is to eliminate the hard-heel strike and employ something closer to a mid-strike: landing softly on the heel but rolling immediately through the outside of your foot, then across the ball and pushing off with the toes, with a kind of figure-eight movement though the foot. There's a more exaggerated version of this style of walking known as "fox-walking," which is closer to tiptoeing and which has caught on with a small group of naturalists and barefoot hikers. Fox-walking involves landing on the outside of the ball of your foot, then slowly lowering the foot pad to feel for obstructions, then rolling through your toes and moving on. All of which is great, if you're stalking prey with a handmade crossbow, or you're an insane millionaire hunting humans as part of the Most Dangerous Game. As for walking in the city, fox-walking has no real practical application, in part because it's incredibly frustrating to master and in part because you look like a lunatic. ("You Walk Wrong," http://nymag.com/health/features/46213)
Not trying to justify it, but maybe one reason that imprecise terms like mid-foot strike and tiptoeing are sometimes used is that flat-foot strike sounds too much like "flat feet," which is a bad thing, and people are more familiar with tiptoeing than forefoot walking. When I talk about forefoot-first walking I mean like the infants in these videos I found with a little searching some time ago:
Collin's First steps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU72k0daevU&feature=related
Baby Em's first steps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWVM-m9veLo&feature=related
Interestingly, notice that those infants do a semi-shuffle-step that resembles some of the traditional dance steps of Zhu/wasi Bushmen:
Bushmen dance at SanDüne
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p2QBHCdjT8
Maybe they mean the very back of the ball of the foot? Or more of a flat strike where the ball hits a moment before, or at the same time, as the heel?
The answer appears to be the latter, and below is another example of this that I recently came across. Here too, they use "mid-foot strike" as a synonym for "flat-foot strike." Again, I'm not defending it, but just explaining that it appears to be an imperfect way of briefly describing a foot strike in which the heel is not pounded hard like is typical with a big-heeled shoe and neither is the strike solely on the ball of the foot.
"Here we show that habitually barefoot endurance runners often land on the fore-foot (fore-foot strike) before bringing down the heel, but they sometimes land with a flat foot (mid-foot strike) or, less often, on the heel (rear-foot strike). In contrast, habitually shod runners mostly rear-foot strike, facilitated by the elevated and cushioned heel of the modern running shoe." (Foot strike patterns and collision forces in habitually barefoot versus shod runners, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7280/full/nature08723.html)
By quoting that excerpt I'm not trying to imply that "mid-foot strike" is a good description. I think flat-foot strike is more apt.
I've been keeping my eyes out for more evidence of forefoot-first walking among adults. I've been puzzled by the fact that I haven't found much of it yet other than a few anecdotal reports and some opinion-based pieces at barefoot-promoting websites. I've even found reports from longtime forefoot-first runners that they still have some heel strike in their walk. I thought Esther Gokhale's book, 8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back, might contain some evidence, since she studied some relatively traditional people of Burkina Faso, including some barefooters, but I was suprised to find her advocating heel-strike-walking (though she did at least advocate a light heel strike) and images that show heel-striking. She even instructs to "press" the heel towards the floor/ground. She further states that a common mistake is "not leaving the heel on the ground long enough." That was the biggest surprise of all for me.
Don't worry, I haven't abandoned my original tentative hypothesis of many years ago, which is that forefoot-first barefoot walking is the most natural style, since that's how all infants apparently start out walking, but I've been puzzled by my difficulty in finding photographic or textual evidence of this from first-hand observations of adults in longtime barefoot-walking populations. Anything people might have along those lines that they could share would be much appreciated. The first time I researched this on the Internet I don't recall finding any references to it, then eventually one or two, but with the recent barefoot craze there has been a growing amount of information that touches on it, so I'm confident that the evidence one way or the other will become clear in the near future.
On the other hand, I was little surprised to discover a video that shows a chimp walking heel-first:
Then again, humans aren't chimps.
I have walked on my forefoot first since I saw some Martial arts movie, maybe Karate Kid. Grasshopper not want rip rice paper.
Thanks for sharing that, raw-al. That encourages me some more to think that my hypothesis may be on target. I saw the original Karate Kid and don't remember that, despite my curiosity about the topic before I saw it. If anyone knows whether it was in that movie or another, I'd be interested to know which one.
If the entire Japanese people recently walked forefoot-first, that would be huge evidence and it would lead me to expect that the Chinese did also, which would of course be massive evidence and the only potential remaining argument at that point for heel-strike walking would be biological differences between groups requiring some people of some backgrounds to heel-strike, which would be a weak argument.
It's pretty neat to find other people in Western culture who share my interest in barefoot- and forefoot-first walking and running. Years ago I used to wonder if I was one of only a few modern people who were interested. People used to act like I was nuts if I dared to talk about it, :) but the growing number of news stories on it has gotten a few to start to take me seriously about it--though no one has converted to barefooting or barefoot-style shoes (my father considered the latter, but the prices turned him off). So thanks much for the inputs here!
@Lex: Thanks for the fascinating reports. I too have noticed that I handle both hotter and colder water and weather than other slim people now. In the past even warm water felt hot and stingy to my feet at times, and I told my physician of the time about it and he thought I was nuts, of course. Now I can put my feet or hands in water that other slim people tell me is way too hot or cold and it feels good to me instead of painful. I too think that my circulation has improved, though I still can't stay in cold water as long as my relatives that have much more body fat. I think this may be because the cold water has more direct access to my bones and its the bones that chill us most.
Running into broken glass nearly everywhere is one of the annoyances of barefooting. It has brought to my attention the vast amount of broken glass that can be found, even deep in the woods and even now with recycling. It seems to have increased in recent years, which I think may be due to the fact that inflation has made the nickel deposit worth much less than what it was when the law went into effect in the 1970s.
I read that a forefoot strike was the natural way to walk barefoot so tried to force myself to walk that way.
Where did you read that?
Over time I gave up the quest as my body just didn’t want to do it on normal surfaces. It naturally seemed to want a light heal strike then a roll onto the ball of the foot with the toes spread followed by a push-off from the forefoot and toes. .... My gait will also change to forefoot strike first when walking on crushed gravel or other very uneven surfaces, but on solid surfaces like dirt, grass, asphalt, and concrete my normal gait is a light heal strike first.
Same here. I gave up for the time being on everyday forefoot walking, but I've always used a forefoot strike when walking barefoot on sharp gravel, even when I wore big-heeled shoes.
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hi parker, my toddler always walks on the grass barefooted. i also prefer to walk on wild grass. not those city grown grass. but this event sounds very exiting. me and my family may be can come.
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It is not the ball of my foot which touches first, but near the outside corner. When you say I consciously changed... Yes I was conscious of the change but I in no way forced myself to do it, any more than a toddler or a caveman would. I just naturally adapted my movement based on feedback and this is what I've got...
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Blimey PaleoPhil! You weren't kidding when you mentioned taking the opportunity to discuss the topic in depth!!! :) When I find a couple of spare days I hope to work my way through that last post! ;) As you know, this is also a subject I'm very interested in so I hope I find those spare days soon. I did watch the videos but need to watch them again as I wasn't monitoring her feet sufficiently! ;)
Lex, you're an inspiration! It's really encouraging to read of your progress with your barefoot lifestyle. Like raw-al, as a fellow woodworker, I'm very impressed that you're able to do this barefoot and would love to be able to achieve such a level of hardness/durability on my feet. It does make me think that this whole 'minimalist' footwear thing should only be used as a brief stepping stone to achieving a true barefoot lifestyle.
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It is not the ball of my foot which touches first, but near the outside corner. When you say I consciously changed... Yes I was conscious of the change but I in no way forced myself to do it, any more than a toddler or a caveman would. I just naturally adapted my movement based on feedback and this is what I've got...
Fascinating. I envy you. ;D So you had no idea that the ball of the foot was the optimal strike point and the change just occurred naturally and unconsciously? How long did this take? Do you have strong muscles and connective tissues in the feet, ankles, lower legs, and knees and good posture?
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"hi parker, my toddler always walks on the grass barefooted. i also prefer to walk on wild grass. not those city grown grass. but this event sounds very exiting. me and my family may be can come."
- Yah I've always wondered about natural surfaces. When it comes down to long distance running I'm curious to what surfaces are the best.
-if anyone knows.... let me know.
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Fascinating. I envy you. ;D So you had no idea that the ball of the foot was the optimal strike point and the change just occurred naturally and unconsciously? How long did this take? Do you have strong muscles and connective tissues in the feet, ankles, lower legs, and knees and good posture?
When I started running barefoot, I was considered to have big muscles by people I knew, and I was strong in doing ~10rep max range of controlled movements, but my muscles and joints would easily become inflamed from any impact or sudden stuff. I got pain in my knees from running on hard surfaces in shoes unless I'd already been running for hrs on soft surfaces. This is why I started running barefoot, and it worked. Because of this stuff, I guess I may've been more sensitive to problems in technique than someone else.
When I started running barefooted it was before I knew about Paleodiet never mind RPD, it was sort of a gateway as I was in the right frame of mind, and I started eating Paleo a few months later.
The thought was that it's natural to run barefoot, so I shouldn't need to think about it, and I'll just react to the feedback from my body, not think about how I should be running, and just let myself adapt. On the heel just didn't work so initially I was running on my forefoot and without putting my heel down. I was doing short-ish, fast-ish runs at this point. Then one day I did my longest run, and my calves got tired so I started putting my heels down after the forefoot to rest my calves.
When walking, heel-first was awkward and I had to try not to put my heel down hard because it was uncomfortable, and this was limiting, and putting my forefoot down first wasn't comfortable either. I just ran everywhere as my walking ability was worse than with shoes whilst my running was better than before, and certainly anyone I knew. Then after a change of location, I found myself a few miles from my food-source, and at the time I would get my food I considered rest-time, so I didn't fancy running. This meant I was 'forced' to walk several miles every day. At some point not long in to this I found it was more comfortable putting the outside corners of my feet down first, rather than the ball, because the ball part was suffering impacts from the ground and this altered way was absorbing the shock better. Then I found myself naturally adopting this same movement in running. It actually allowed me to run with my knees less bent I think too, as I had more effective flexion this way.
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I have to say I haven't put much thought into barefoot running and it clicked ok for me. I just got some vivo boots and started wearing them all the time, then went abroad and ran in them as well.
I didn't build it up slowly, but I'm lucky that I know how to take care of problems that muscles have, so cautious is probably the best approach. It did put a strain on my rectus femoris and other quads at first, and I had to treat the knots.
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I have found that if I feel any discomfort on the sole it is because of a splinter which could be anything from a a thorn to metal or whatever. Even if not visible, it is a foreign intruder. I can get it out now or like Lex says when it starts to infect.
However my soles get tougher each day, as I am pretty much always barefoot inside and out. Winter will be a challenge though. My friend grew up on a farm in Saskatchewan Canada and he says that barefoot was the norm from March to October / November. He has some Indian (aboriginal) blood.
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... I guess I may've been more sensitive to problems in technique than someone else.
My problems occur when I use supposedly proper technique. I didn't develop any calf problems, just forefoot and ankle problems. Like Lex, I do better at this time when I walk with a light heel strike or flatfoot strike than when I forefoot-walk.
It sounds like some of you live in rural areas with moderately soft ground. There are woods near me, but even they have a much-traveled mostly very hard-packed trail and I live downtown and walk to work in a city, so much of my walking is on concrete sidewalks, hard ground and very hard floors, and I think that may account for some of the difference.
The thought was that it's natural to run barefoot, so I shouldn't need to think about it, and I'll just react to the feedback from my body, not think about how I should be running, and just let myself adapt.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing and I find my body naturally gravitates to somewhere between a light heel strike and a flatfoot strike when walking; jogging is a flatfoot strike and sprinting is a forefoot strike for me. It has been nearly two years since I switched to wearing only barefoot-style shoes and doing as much barefoot walking as I can. I had expected that I would develop a forefoot-walk by now, but it hasn't happened yet. About how long did it take for your body to develop a natural forefoot-walk?
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Like Miles, when running, the outside of my forefoot strikes first, toes spread as I roll to the ball of the foot followed by the toes hitting and finally the heal drops to absorb shock and prepare for then next push off. This change was automatic and noticable but just as miles said, not forced.
Overall, footstrike constantly adjusts depending on gait, surface type, and terrain. My body just seems to know what to do depending on these factors but it did take a good bit of time for this to happen.
Lex
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Well I developed a forefoot walk probably in about a week of walking a few miles a day. However by that time I'd been travelling barefoot for ~2 years, 1000s of miles. It's just that I'd never walked barefoot with purpose up until that point. If I was barefoot and had purpose to get somewhere I'd always run. If I was walking and felt I wanted to go faster I'd switch to running(forefoot), and this was most of the time as I couldn't walk very fast at all barefoot, especially on hard surfaces. Heel-first very much limits the speed you can go at without shocking the bone. I would've switched to walking forefoot sooner if I'd had a reason to stay walking and not run earlier on. I would naturally try to walk forefoot early on, to absorb shock and allow me to move faster, but found it tiring around my achilles, as it's a different movement to running, and I was already used to that so I would just switch. Also the forefoot can touch much earlier on the outside of the foot than the ball, and in the beginning I used to put my forefoot down flat, as the skin outside of my foot wore out very quickly when it was my first point of contact with the ground. In this later time the skin on theoutside of my forefoot was now strong, and I only just remembered writing this that this is why I previously ran/tried to walk flat-forefooted(forefoot north-south but flat east-west).
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Like Miles, when running, the outside of my forefoot strikes first, toes spread as I roll to the ball of the foot followed by the toes hitting and finally the heal drops to absorb shock and prepare for then next push off. This change was automatic and noticable but just as miles said, not forced.
Same here. Where I think you and I find we do things differently from Miles, if I understand correctly, is that we don't forefoot-walk, despite having tried it, yes? Perhaps it will just take more time to adapt further, I don't know.
I don't shock my feet when barefoot walking, because I find myself naturally using either a light heel strike, or a flatfoot-strike. So I neither do a hard heel strike nor a forefoot strike when walking. The faster I move, the more my feet naturally transition forward to a forefoot strike. Like you two, when I walk I naturally connect first on the outside of my foot too before the ball, I just don't find myself naturally landing on the fore part of the foot first, even though I thought I would. When I do try that I get soreness in my forefoot.
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I'm really new to this forum, but I was wondering, what is the point of barefoot running? It seems like it would hurt your skin and bruise your feet more. I'm a new mother and I can't even imagine trying this right now.
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we are civilized people, and put ourselves wearing shoes all day long which is more abnormal than anything else!! ;)
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I'm really new to this forum, but I was wondering, what is the point of barefoot running? It seems like it would hurt your skin and bruise your feet more. I'm a new mother and I can't even imagine trying this right now.
The point of barefoot running is that it's>all.
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Phil,
I agree that Miles walks forefoot first and we don’t. I suppose that I could force myself to do this and then when I mastered it I could call it “normal”. I decided not to do this. I just let my body decide how my foot should strike depending on the conditions at the time.
Marissa,
It takes some time to get over the conditioning of wearing shoes all our lives, however, for me it has been of great benefit. Posture has improved and many aches and pains (that shoe supports are supposed to solve) have gone away once I adapted to barefoot. We aren’t born with shoes. Why do we think that wearing them is important to our health? Most on this forum have found that once we are weaned away from the societal norms our health and happiness significantly improve.
Lex
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... I just let my body decide how my foot should strike depending on the conditions at the time. ...
Same here
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The harder the surface is your walking on, the lighter your heel will strike the ground to prevent injury. Your body does it naturally.
Walking/running on cement is bad barefooted, very bad. Dirt is no where near cement in hardness. You can hammer a nail through dirt but not cement.
Most of walking/running our ancestors did was done on softer surface than cement.
Conditioning the foot, and walking on cement are 2 different things. Walking on cement conditions your foot but can cause knee injuries.
Oh, on animal skins people used for winter times, they fit the shape of the foot. When you walk the animal hide would just press against you skin, fitting the form.
If anyone chooses to go bare, do so on natural surfaces like dirt or grass etc.
I have done barefoot, and sandals on cement both suck and cause injuries when on man made cement. I walk for miles and miles in a given day. THE BEST SHOES FOR THE URBAN JUNGLE I HAD ARE THESE BAD BOYS, THESE FEEL THE BEST FOR ME WHEN I WALK SEVERAL MILES A DAY ON MAN MADE HARD SURFACES
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/DSCN5286.jpg)
Only if there were still dirt roads....
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Even though the shoes here I wear protect me when walking on cement, I still can get knee injuries If I run long distance on cement even with shoes.
I always do my long distance running on grass.
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sully, i never think about that to tear up nice pair of running shoes like that, so air can get through this. great idea!!! :D so we don't need to wear socks i guess!!
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sully, i never think about that to tear up nice pair of running shoes like that, so air can get through this. great idea!!! :D so we don't need to wear socks i guess!!
yes raw, when I wear these my feet don't stink. But if I wear shoes with no holes, my feet stink, which is why people wear socks to absorb sweat in shoes with no holes that have little air flow. these shoes are a mircale. I don't care if people stare at them. they are pure genius.
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I've found that once my feet toughened up, cement and asphalt have been no problem at all. I can easily walk many miles on these surfaces with no problem. I can also walk on crushed gravel without a problem. Shoes, on the other hand, tend to force my feet and ankles into unnatural positions. I discovered this in the 1970's when Niki came out with their Waffle Trainers. These were hailed as the holy grail of foot wear for runners to avoid ankle and knee injury. I found just the opposite. The wide flat soles and all the padding restricted the natural rolling motion of my foot when running and actually caused more stress on my knees and ankles. I just couldn't wear them without risking ankle and knee injury. However, I did find that wearing racing flats that had a very thin sole and no padding at all didn't cause me any problems. Just my experinece,
Lex
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Walking many miles every day, barefoot, on hard man-made surfaces is not a problem.
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I have walked on man made surfaces bare footed, not a problem for my feet. But it is a problem for my joints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many of you walked for hours on cement at a regular pace and not tip toed or lightly stepped with your heel?
I have, knee joint pain surfaced. Put on shoes for cement and it went away.
Walking on man made surfaces damages joints. Especially bare footed and walking normally.
This is NOT my opinion, this is my experience and a pure fact.
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That's why I don't heel-walk. I absorb the shock like with running barefoot.
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That's why I don't heel-walk.
then your not human, JK
heel walking is done naturally and with no problem on grass and sand dirt etc
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How many of you walked for hours on cement at a regular pace and not tip toed or lightly stepped with your heel?
Walking on man made surfaces damages joints. Especially bare footed and walking normally. This is NOT my opinion, this is my experience and a pure fact.
I've walked for hours at a regular pace on cement and asphalt with no problem at all. As I've stated before, my whole body, hips, knees, ankles, and feet adjust their motions to accommodate the surface. For instance, when walking on crushed gravel with sharp angular surfaces, my footstrike automatically becomes more flat to spread the pressure more evenly. This causes the rest of my body to compensate by adjusting how the knees, hips, and torso move while walking on that particular surface. All this is automatic. I don't even think about it - it just happens on its own.
Thinking that wearing shoes to isolate you from the various surfaces that you find uncomfortable so that you can always maintain the same footstrike and gait seems far more unnatural to me than just allowing my body to naturally adjust to whatever conditions exist. Solid rock is just has hard as cement and I'd call it 'natural'. Several places I've hiked were mostly rock. Our feet are marvels of engineering. If given a chance they will accommodate almost any surface, but you are right, you can't force you body to maintain the same footstrike and gait on every surface and expect that all will be well. It is our body's ability to automatically adjust to accommodate widely varying conditions that is so remarkable in our species. Unfortunately, it is also very human to want to control our environment so that we can ignore the natural order of things and force our bodies to do very unnatural acts like always walking with the same step and gait – hence we invent shoes and over time come to believe that they are necessary.
Lex
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I picked up a pair of vibram FFs a couple months ago and I absolutely love them, especially since I started running with proper form, not heel-striking. I think this weekend I may start running fully barefoot. It's such an incredible lower-leg workout! Sprinting up hills in vibrams (or barefoot) is a ridiculous calf workout for those of us who have worn "regular" shoes all our lives.
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Unfortunately, it is also very human to want to control our environment so that we can ignore the natural order of things and force our bodies to do very unnatural acts like always walking with the same step and gait – hence we invent shoes and over time come to believe that they are necessary.
Lex
We invented shoes/sandals (not referring to moccasins), because we invented pavement and brick/stone roads/paths. The shoes helps withstand the the hard surface.
I understand that our body adjust to whatever it walks on naturally, but where is there pavement in nature, Where we would be walking miles on end on hard surfaces on a daily basis? Or better yet, who would choose to walk on hard surfaces miles on end if there is a softer path of dirt/grass etc? Were not mountain goats.
Btw, I wonder if Neanderthals needed some animal skins to cover there foot in winter. We all know the Inuit did.
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Running on manmade surfaces will only damage your joints if you're running with bad form, i.e., heel-striking. Barefoot Ken Bob has run tons of marathons barefoot on pavement, but he does it with natural form, on the balls of his feet, and his joints are doing great.
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I picked up a pair of vibram FFs a couple months ago and I absolutely love them, especially since I started running with proper form, not heel-striking.
I bought a couple of pair of these as well and don't like them much. I prefer total barefoot and they don't meet the fetching Mrs Rooker's requirements as appropriate footwear when we are out socially so to me they are not very useful.
Lex
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Barefoot Ken Bob has run tons of marathons barefoot on pavement, but he does it with natural form, on the balls of his feet, and his joints are doing great.
You can run heel toe without knee problems on grass and dirt....
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Running forefoot first is still usually, almost always better off-road as well.. Even if it's so little that it's almost flat, it's the default, natural way of running..
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It still transmits a surprising amount of shock to the body though. The middle of the foot is basically a big joint, that absorbs a ton of impact. Running on the balls of your feet allows your feet to work as they evolved to work, to absorb all that shock and prevent it from harming your body. It takes a bit to re-learn running form, both the form itself and for the muscles/tendons/ligaments/bones to strengthen, but it's well worth it. I'm in the Army and we do a lot of running on pavement, and I used to get shin splints pretty badly at times. Once I got my vibrams (which, due to Army regulations on allowable PT clothing/shoes, are the closest I can get to barefoot while exercising at work) and started running on the balls of my feet, with a shorter, faster stride, my shin splints instantly went away. Ahh, I'm rambling.
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Once I got my vibrams (which, due to Army regulations on allowable PT clothing/shoes, are the closest I can get to barefoot while exercising at work) and started running on the balls of my feet, with a shorter, faster stride, my shin splints instantly went away.
As usual it is the individual conditions that count. If I were in the Army and was allowed to wear Vibrams for PT instead of those miserable boots I was issued, I'd probably be shouting the praises of my Vibram's to the rafters.
Lex
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Running on manmade surfaces will only damage your joints if you're running with bad form, i.e., heel-striking. Barefoot Ken Bob has run tons of marathons barefoot on pavement, but he does it with natural form, on the balls of his feet, and his joints are doing great.
I haven't noticed any problems with blacktop pavement--just cement, which is apparently denser and therefore harder and less forgiving. Now that I'm used to walking and running in bare feet and flat-soled shoes, shoes with heels like Sully's feel awkward and clumsy and tip me foreward and out of balance. So shoes with big cushy heels are not a good solution re: cement for me. I've been giving my right foot a break by trying to walk on the grass beside sidewalks wherever possible and it seems like it's slowly recovering.
I'm hoping my feet will toughen up, like Lex's, and I'll eventually be able to handle even cement well. I have a history of connective tissue problems, so it will likely take me longer to strengthen my tissues than most people.
It's interesting to see the wide spectrum of experiences here. Clearly we're not going to agree on a single perfect approach to every aspect of running, walking, brand of shoe, shoes vs. no shoes, or various surfaces that suits the current needs of all of us. Luckily, we don't need one.
Even though my speculative hypothesis is that forefoot-style is the most natural form of both running and walking, based on watching infants walk and anecdotal reports from and about some others, my feet so far have only gravitated to forefoot-style when sprinting or going uphill or up and down stairs (they naturally gravitate to flatfoot style or a very light heel-first style when walking on flat ground, even when I'm barefooted). My guess is that my feet will slowly gravitate more toward forefoot-style in the future, but I can't be sure of this. As I think I mentioned, I have also encountered counter-evidence to my hypothesis, in the form of images of traditional people walking heel-first in bare feet or flat-soled shoes and a video of a chimpanzee walking heel-first. The contradictory evidence is puzzling and it's an intriguing topic. I'm hoping that more evidence will make the picture clearer in the future, but in the meantime I'm enjoying the puzzle.
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shoes with heels like Sully's feel awkward and clumsy and tip me foreward and out of balance.
I was just thinking about that, my shoes have a mini ramp which pushes my heel too high ,
Not too much prob with them, but I know there must be better out there more form fitting,
there is a new balance pair that i like much more than these modified sandals i made, i had them before, got to find them
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I was just thinking about that, my shoes have a mini ramp which pushes my heel too high ,
Not too much prob with them, but I know there must be better out there more form fitting,
there is a new balance pair that i like much more than these modified sandals i made, i had them before, got to find them
Get racing flats. Light weight, very thin sole and no heel.
Lex
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I haven't noticed any problems with blacktop pavement--just cement, which is apparently denser and therefore harder and less forgiving. Now that I'm used to walking and running in bare feet and flat-soled shoes, shoes with heels like Sully's feel awkward and clumsy and tip me foreward and out of balance. So shoes with big cushy heels are not a good solution re: cement for me. I've been giving my right foot a break by trying to walk on the grass beside sidewalks wherever possible and it seems like it's slowly recovering.
I'm hoping my feet will toughen up, like Lex's, and I'll eventually be able to handle even cement well. I have a history of connective tissue problems, so it will likely take me longer to strengthen my tissues than most people.
It's interesting to see the wide spectrum of experiences here. Clearly we're not going to agree on a single perfect approach to every aspect of running, walking, brand of shoe, shoes vs. no shoes, or various surfaces that suits the current needs of all of us. Luckily, we don't need one.
Even though my speculative hypothesis is that forefoot-style is the most natural form of both running and walking, based on watching infants walk and anecdotal reports from and about some others, my feet so far have only gravitated to forefoot-style when sprinting or going uphill or up and down stairs (they naturally gravitate to flatfoot style or a very light heel-first style when walking on flat ground, even when I'm barefooted). My guess is that my feet will slowly gravitate more toward forefoot-style in the future, but I can't be sure of this. As I think I mentioned, I have also encountered counter-evidence to my hypothesis, in the form of images of traditional people walking heel-first in bare feet or flat-soled shoes and a video of a chimpanzee walking heel-first. The contradictory evidence is puzzling and it's an intriguing topic. I'm hoping that more evidence will make the picture clearer in the future, but in the meantime I'm enjoying the puzzle.
Well for walking I think heel-first is okay, as it's pretty low impact, but for running, that's when the need for running on the balls of your feet really arises. Another thing that I sometimes forget is that I'm only about 5'7", and 140 pounds soaking wet. So when I'm running there isn't a ton of pressure/stress on my feet/achillies tendon/etc. Guys that weigh more put a lot more pressure on their feet/ankles, and it just takes longer for stuff to physically strengthen. I've read that even for an experienced runner, switching to barefoot or even vibrams and running toes first it will still take as much as a year or more for the bones/tendons/muscles/skin of the feet and lower legs to strengthen enough to run long distances that way. I believe it. I've been wearing mine for a few months and my calves still get nice and sore after running a few quick miles in them.
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Get racing flats. Light weight, very thin sole and no heel.
Lex
I'll check them out, thanks :)
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Make some Huarache's(Sandals) in the style of the Tarahumara etc..
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@infinitenexus: I'm light too and I've been doing barefoot style for a couple years, but like I said, I have weak connective tissues and muscles (due to a history of gluten sensitive enteropathy and mild connective tissue disorders), so it will probably take longer for me to adjust, if I ever do adjust fully. Interestingly, I found the following, which suggests that forefoot striking might not be best for anything beyond sprinting, which contradicts my original hypothesis that it's the natural method for all forms of walking and running. This adds to my skepticism about my hypothesis, but I haven't abandoned it yet. For one thing, it would be pretty cool and wild if it turned out that most people walk the opposite way they should, so I'm still rooting for the forefoot-strike-at-all-speeds-being-natural hypothesis, :), but being a skeptic and a lover of empirical science, I cannot claim that there is strong evidence for my hypothesis at this point.
In the third figure I’m landing in a midfoot (or fullfoot) strike which means that the entire bottom of my foot is landing as my foot hits the ground. My GFR was measured at 2.47 x Body Weight or 2.47 x 150 lbs. = 370.5 lbs. Now, if the surface area of the entire bottom of my foot is roughly 30 sq. inches. (I’m a size 9.5 shoe), that would mean that the impact felt by my feet would be approximately 12.35 lbs./sq. inch. or half as much as the forefoot striker. That’s less than 25% of the impact per square inch the heel striker feels and half of what the forefoot striker feels. ....
There are times to run with a forefoot strike. There are times to run with a fullfoot strike. And, there are times to run (believe it or not) with a heel strike. I’ll cover these in a future blog. http://chirunning.com/blogs/danny/2010/02/15/comparison-of-harvard-study-results-with-chirunning/
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Well, that equation isn't taken one very very important thing into account: the fact that the foot itself flexes and absorbs shock when you avoid heel-striking. There's slow-motion videos on youtube of a guy jogging on a treadmill both heel striking and not. In the heel striking videos you can literally see waves of shock travelling up beyond his knees, but when he's on the balls of his feet, there is much much less shock. Running on the balls of the feet fully utilizes the flexible nature of the foot. Flat footed, I dunno, I'd have to try it I guess. But I definitely do not believe in any way that there is a time to ever run heel-first.
Barefoot Ken Bob has really good guidelines for running barefoot: small, quick steps, upright posture, landing on the balls of your feet. Running with small fast steps makes it a lot easier and more natural feeling.
Sorry to hear about your weak tissues. Unfortunately, modern shoes have weakened all of our feet (though not necessarily to the point of yours) because they support our feet, instead of letting the foot grow strong and support itself.
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...But I definitely do not believe in any way that there is a time to ever run heel-first.
Yeah, I'm also particularly skeptical of that part of Danny Dreyer's claim--unless maybe he means when running downhill? Unfortunately, it looks like he hasn't posted further on it yet. Maybe we should express our interest to encourage him?
Barefoot Ken Bob has really good guidelines for running barefoot: small, quick steps, upright posture, landing on the balls of your feet. Running with small fast steps makes it a lot easier and more natural feeling.
Yes, I have checked out some of his writings, and that sounds like what I recall.
Sorry to hear about your weak tissues. Unfortunately, modern shoes have weakened all of our feet (though not necessarily to the point of yours) because they support our feet, instead of letting the foot grow strong and support itself.
Thanks, and you're quite correct. In many ways we moderners have coddled ourselves and as a result we are less robust, which Taleb and others would probably argue increases the risks of disadvantageous changes and reduces the survival chances of our species. I think Taleb is right in focusing on robustness as a key concept.
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@infinitenexus: I'm light too and I've been doing barefoot style for a couple years, but like I said, I have weak connective tissues and muscles (due to a history of gluten sensitive enteropathy and mild connective tissue disorders), so it will probably take longer for me to adjust, if I ever do adjust fully. Interestingly, I found the following, which suggests that forefoot striking might not be best for anything beyond sprinting, which contradicts my original hypothesis that it's the natural method for all forms of walking and running. This adds to my skepticism about my hypothesis, but I haven't abandoned it yet. For one thing, it would be pretty cool and wild if it turned out that most people walk the opposite way they should, so I'm still rooting for the forefoot-strike-at-all-speeds-being-natural hypothesis, :), but being a skeptic and a lover of empirical science, I cannot claim that there is strong evidence for my hypothesis at this point.
Too much talking, too little doing.
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Too much talking, too little doing.
??? What are you talking about? I already walk barefoot style too much as it is and injured my right foot as a result, as I reported. By reducing the amount of walking and walking with my right foot more on grass, I have enabled it to mostly heal. If it stays healed I will gradually increase my walking again.
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Nah I just mean because... If you are barefoot enough, you will learn that walking forefoot is better, most of the time. Then you won't be so concerned about some douche's study. If you actually use walking, barefoot, then you will want to walk effectively and you will just end up walking forefoot much of the time, at some point. That's the way you will find what is best, not by thinking. If you just go out for walks you might never learn to walk forefoot. But if you are walking to get to places then you will.
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Nah I just mean because... If you are barefoot enough, you will learn that walking forefoot is better, most of the time.
No, I didn't learn that, even after two years of not wearing shoes with heels, as I already explained. You said that walking forefoot-first came quickly and naturally to you, and that's fine, but it didn't happen for Lex or me. I expected that it would, but it didn't--yet--and I found this out myself long before I read about "some douche's study." I've been posting about forefoot walking since before you even registered at this forum. BTW, I don't see where that guy acted like a douche. You've been acting much more like that yourself lately. What gives? Whatever it is, please get over it and move on.
That's the way you will find what is best, not by thinking. If you just go out for walks you might never learn to walk forefoot. But if you are walking to get to places then you will.
What the...? l) That's one of the most bizarre comments I've ever seen in this forum, and I've seen some doozies. I did try forefoot walking with surprisingly poor results. I do walk to places--like work for one. That's actually part of my exercise style--incorporating exercise into my daily life, rather than driving to a gym and spending an hour there every three or more days of the week, as though it were a special, unusual activity that required certain rituals and burning of fossil fuels. Do you actually expect us to believe that Lex also does not walk "to get to places"?
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You're talking about walking forefoot with shoes.. That isn't the same as barefoot. It seems to me that when you're walking anywhere for a reason you are wearing shoes, whereas when you walk barefoot it is walking for walking. Am I not correct?
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No, I frequently walk and/or run or jog to a special place of mine in my bare feet and I have walked home in bare feet from work and other places at times recently, by coincidence. What constitutes a "place" to you?
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And by what mechanism would walking to a "place" instead of say, around in circles on a race track, better enable forefoot walking? It sounds like magical thinking to me.
Come to think of it, I almost always walk or run "to a place", whether I go barefoot, or in barefoot-style shoes or sandals, instead of on a race track or around a block or on a treadmill. The latter always seemed too much like a rat on a treadmill. It never made much sense to me.
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You've been acting much more like that yourself lately. What gives? Whatever it is, please get over it and move on.
My apologies Phil. I am conscious of it. I started writing a reply but I think it got far too long and complicated so I cut it down to this.
I had a significant change in my life fairly recently and have sort of 'let myself go' to some extent.
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OK, thanks for explaining. Take care of yourself.
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Do you actually expect us to believe that Lex also does not walk "to get to places"?
To close the loop on this one, yes, I do walk almost everywhere when time permits. It is generally a 2 mile walk to most of the places I go like the market, bank, post office, local mall & etc so out and back is a 4 mile trip. I walk barefoot almost without exception, rain or shine, hot or cold, and probably average 20 - 30 miles per week. Been doing this since I retired in 2006. Did 4 trips in one day once so that day alone was 16 miles, but most days are 4 miles and about 6 days per week. I wear a moderately sized back pack when going to the market and often carry 30 to 50 lbs (15 - 25 Kilos) back home.
I seldom walk forefoot first unless the terrain demands it and then I just do it automatically. I can force myself to do it on flat surfaces but it just doesn't feel right and I have to work hard to keep from reverting back to a light heal strike first. I finally figured out that it was way to much work to continually force myself to do something that my body obviously didn't want to do so now I just walk and let my body choose the foot strike it wants depending on conditions. 90% of the time it is a light heal strike first.
Lex
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OK. As a separate issue, do you carry a pair of flip-flops with you to go in to buildings? Have you ever been denied access to somewhere for not wearing shoes?
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OK. As a separate issue, do you carry a pair of flip-flops with you to go in to buildings? Have you ever been denied access to somewhere for not wearing shoes?
Yep in supermarkets - because of "hygiene"...ridiculus...
well I have started running barefoot a while ago and i LOVE it! I never get injured anymore - I used to have knee problems, but they quickly went away! I have been walking barefoot before that and once after I started running in FF's and then also barefoot my posture greatly improved-by itself. it is aazing how the body naturally responds to the surface!
The other day I was wearing hiking boots - it is getting winter now here and we made a day hike throught the forests and well I thought I would need shoes -my legs did hurt so much after this! I swear my legs and feet feel way better with no shoes / minimal shoewear!
Nicole
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I seldom walk forefoot first unless the terrain demands it and then I just do it automatically. I can force myself to do it on flat surfaces but it just doesn't feel right and I have to work hard to keep from reverting back to a light heal strike first. I finally figured out that it was way to much work to continually force myself to do something that my body obviously didn't want to do so now I just walk and let my body choose the foot strike it wants depending on conditions. 90% of the time it is a light heal strike first.
When I walk barefoot or in socks I walk forefoot first, but when I wear sneakers (flat ones) I walk heel first. Forcing yourself to walk one way or the other is pointless. Perhaps the way we walk barefoot has to do with a person's posture or the way their back curvature is and how their weight is distributed. When walking forefoot first I feel more sneaky and fox-like, when I am jogging its usually heel first though, which gives me a nice tempo/speed for running.
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When I walk barefoot or in socks I walk forefoot first, but when I wear sneakers (flat ones) I walk heel first. Forcing yourself to walk one way or the other is pointless. Perhaps the way we walk barefoot has to do with a person's posture or the way their back curvature is and how their weight is distributed. ...
That's an interesting hypothesis, as I do have a mild diagnosed kyphoscoliotic curvature. I'm hoping that barefoot walking might help straighten it a little in the long run, or at least prevent future worsening of it.