Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: tests on May 27, 2013, 10:42:12 am
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Hey everyone, I live in Southern California (city of diamond bar), and I am struggling to find a brand of olive oil that is actually olive oil, not rancid, and has all the health benefits. I currently purchase the Kirkland Olive Oil (Costcos brand). According to this olive oil study conducted by UCD, the Kirkland brand meets all the requirements for legit olive oil. But I am not sure if there are any other factors at play (i.e. if its a bullshit study). Also, I cannot find 100% pasture raised eggs. Almost all of the chickens that lay eggs are fed grains.
http://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/news-events/news/files/olive%20oil%20final%20071410%20.pdf (http://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/news-events/news/files/olive%20oil%20final%20071410%20.pdf)
thanks!
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This is not a direct answer to your question, but I used to live in Anaheim, so I want to remind you how many olives are grown as landscape trees in that area. Most homeowners don't do anything with their olives except rake them into the trash. You probably can get some unsprayed olives in season (late autumn) by posting a request in FreeCycle. If you remove the pits, blend up the olives, and drain them through a nut-milk bag, you'll end up with olive oil floating on top of the liquid. You'll get total control over rancidity that way.
Now the direct answer: Artesanal olive oil stores are springing up in upscale urban centers in California. I saw one http://www.beyondtheolive.com/ (http://www.beyondtheolive.com/) just off of Colorado Boulevard in downtown Pasadena on a recent trip, and we have one in Campbell (ritzy San Jose suburb), CA. I don't buy olive oil, so I never asked about how the oil is produced, but you might call them and ask about their olive oils.
As I was looking up the name of the Pasadena store, I noticed the California Olive Oil Council http://www.cooc.com/ (http://www.cooc.com/). You know, we are a major commercial olive-growing state, so you might find someone selling good oil from their farm at a farmers' market. The fresh oil will be found after the autumn harvest.
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This is not a direct answer to your question, but I used to live in Anaheim, so I want to remind you how many olives are grown as landscape trees in that area. Most homeowners don't do anything with their olives except rake them into the trash. You probably can get some unsprayed olives in season (late autumn) by posting a request in FreeCycle. If you remove the pits, blend up the olives, and drain them through a nut-milk bag, you'll end up with olive oil floating on top of the liquid. You'll get total control over rancidity that way.
Now the direct answer: Artesanal olive oil stores are springing up in upscale urban centers in California. I saw one http://www.beyondtheolive.com/ (http://www.beyondtheolive.com/) just off of Colorado Boulevard in downtown Pasadena on a recent trip, and we have one in Campbell (ritzy San Jose suburb), CA. I don't buy olive oil, so I never asked about how the oil is produced, but you might call them and ask about their olive oils.
As I was looking up the name of the Pasadena store, I noticed the California Olive Oil Council http://www.cooc.com/ (http://www.cooc.com/). You know, we are a major commercial olive-growing state, so you might find someone selling good oil from their farm at a farmers' market. The fresh oil will be found after the autumn harvest.
Interesting. What do you think of the study that I posted (and the name brand kirkland)?
I will have to look into this further
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Interesting. What do you think of the study that I posted (and the name brand kirkland)?
The study was very broad in its reasoning why brands tested did not meet the sensory standards. I don't like olive oil, so I can't relate to the information about how it can be a pleasing taste, but I will agree that bad taste can come from bad olives, bad storage, etc. I really can't comment on that brand because I don't eat commercially processed foods, Kirkland or otherwise. There's no reason why it would be bad just because it's from Costco.
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I have great taste and experience with Braggs and Cirio for extra virgin olive oil.
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I just want legit unadultered olive oil. If it tastes good, so be it!
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I have great taste and experience with Braggs and Cirio for extra virgin olive oil.
I think braggs olive oil may be fake
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why?
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Tests, I've never seen anyone claim to have 100% pasture-raised chickens, unless you mean chickens allowed to roam outside year round (when not laying). It's not like 100% grass-fed beef where cattle feed only on pasture. I just buy whichever local eggs are the best of those that are easily available to me and the results have been good. Chickens seem to tolerate a certain amount of grain better than cattle, and it makes some sense since their ancestors fed in part on wild seeds.
"Let's get this straight from the get go. No one, here or anywhere else, has real 100% grass-fed chicken meat birds. If anyone claims their meat bird chickens are "grass-fed" they are not being upfront. At best, they can claim their chickens are "pastured." Pastured means raised on grass but supplemented with grain-based feeds. The best pastured feeds contain flax seed though, so that improves the nutritional fatty acid profile. Grass-fed would mean chickens on pasture being fed nothing."
- Ted E. Slanker, Jr., http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/pastured_chicken.htm (http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/pastured_chicken.htm)
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Iguana definitly doesnt feed his ducks any grains and I hear they are doing great. I think he doesnt feed his chickens either but yull have to double check that.
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I would say that you are right in general, Phil, but I have no reason to doubt the grain/soy-free true scavenger poultry that has been raised using the same model as Joel Saladin's Polyface Farms. There are medium-sized grass farmers who do this in my area. Of course, eggs like this are strictly seasonal, and they run about $10/dozen.
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Iguana definitly doesnt feed his ducks any grains and I hear they are doing great. I think he doesnt feed his chickens either but yull have to double check that.
Is Iguana selling his eggs?
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Tests, I've never seen anyone claim to have 100% pasture-raised chickens, unless you mean chickens allowed to roam outside year round (when not laying). It's not like 100% grass-fed beef where cattle feed only on pasture. I just buy whichever local eggs are the best of those that are easily available to me and the results have been good. Chickens seem to tolerate a certain amount of grain better than cattle, and it makes some sense since their ancestors fed in part on wild seeds.
"Let's get this straight from the get go. No one, here or anywhere else, has real 100% grass-fed chicken meat birds. If anyone claims their meat bird chickens are "grass-fed" they are not being upfront. At best, they can claim their chickens are "pastured." Pastured means raised on grass but supplemented with grain-based feeds. The best pastured feeds contain flax seed though, so that improves the nutritional fatty acid profile. Grass-fed would mean chickens on pasture being fed nothing."
- Ted E. Slanker, Jr., http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/pastured_chicken.htm (http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/pastured_chicken.htm)
Interesting... their are pasture raised eggs available to me, but they cost about $8 a dozen
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Is Iguana selling his eggs?
i dont think so, hes also in france...
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Interesting... their are pasture raised eggs available to me, but they cost about $8 a dozen
So by pasture raised what do they mean?
Do any of these pasture raised operations have a website I can check out. For $8 - 10 a dozen, they presumably must be doing something better to justify that cost and I'm curious how they do it.
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there are about 20 sources/farms providing pasture fed eggs where I am living right now. chickens get the full run of as much green forage and bugs and worms available to them on large plots of undeveloped prarie/grass land. most of these have clover, alfalfa, dandelions, mustards, all different types of grasses and tons of bugs and worms, but I never ever see farmers go without supplementing some kind of feed.
I think its just a cultural thing, like farmers don't trust that the chickens will produce if they don't provide a little grain and corn here and there. and it also might be a good supplement for farmers that mow their pastures before things go to seed(a lot of farmers will rotate pastures, mow and till in crops right before they go to seed as a "green manure" and also to smother weeds), if they let their grasses and alfalfas go to seed the chickens would definitely peck around on them, so in a way its making up for not letting the whole process occur out in the fields
how much the chickens eat varies, it may be less then a quarter cup per day that they scratch up, it may be more. I think letting that effect my perception of how healthy the chickens environment is otherwise would be more detrimental to my health then just being very thankful to have such high quality eggs.
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So by pasture raised what do they mean?
Do any of these pasture raised operations have a website I can check out. For $8 - 10 a dozen, they presumably must be doing something better to justify that cost and I'm curious how they do it.
tarafirmafarms.com (http://tarafirmafarms.com)
Day old chicks arrive in the early morning hours and enjoy a warm cozy brooder with room to flit around and build leg muscle. At two weeks old they head out to the pasture to roam the fields all day while being safely tucked into a predator proof house at night. Omnivores themselves, they keep pastures clean of bugs, dig for worms and will go after the occasional small rodent. Stress free management is key to a chicken that never needs antibiotics. Living its life as a chicken provides the soil with the needed fertilizer and food for us that is healthy and tasty. They actually "taste like chicken"!
I have visited this farm and bought eggs from them. The pigs live in the woods, the hens clean the insect larvae from the cow patties. [On Edit: during dry months, the hens are fed some supplemental non-GMO food.] All their beef is slaughtered and butchered off-farm and sold frozen. If you call ahead, they will save you a same-day slaughtered/dressed chicken that has not been frozen (for about $30).
http://www.marinsunfarms.com/livestock/poultry/ (http://www.marinsunfarms.com/livestock/poultry/)
Pasture Raised Layer Flock
Our shelters are constructed as portable hoop houses on wooden skids. Our layer flock ranges from it, eating bugs and scratching through cattle droppings in the pasture just like birds in nature that always follow herbivores. While spreading out the dung piles in search of insect larva, our birds assist in more quickly re-assimilating the nutrients back into the soil, while at the same time ingesting high quality pertinacious larva that would otherwise mature into pesky livestock flies. Our birds also convert their food into rich nitrogen fertilizer that is deposited directly onto, and metabolized by our pastures. We keep layers and roosters for up to two production years. At that point, the layers don’t lay enough eggs to be economical and we prepare these old birds, along with their roosters, as Range Hens and Range Roosters. Although they are tougher than the young broilers, the taste is incomparably superior and the broth is exquisite. These must be slow cooked in order to be tender. [On Edit: The hens are never fed supplemental food.]
I have bought eggs and meats from this farm's store and through their CSA.
www.polyfacefarms.com (http://www.polyfacefarms.com)
Pastured Eggs
An Eggmobile follows the cows in their rotation. The Eggmobile is a 12 ft. X 20 ft. portable henhouse and the laying hens free range from it, eating bugs and scratching through cattle droppings to sanitize the pasture just like birds in nature that always follow herbivores as biological cleansers. The Feathernet is similar, although the birds are secured inside a large electrified netting that is moved every three days to offer additional clean pasturage. Cows mow ahead of the chickens.
This is Joel Saladin's farm, described in detail in the book The Omnivore's Dilemma.
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Thanks a million Eveheart. As always, you're a wealth of useful information, as well as good sense.
I haven't checked out the links yet, and don't want to seem contradictory. I do have a quick question--doesn't Joel Salatin feed his chickens some grain? I thought I read that somewhere. My past research into eggs matches what Jessica reported--that all chicken farmers of any significant size feed their chickens at least some supplemental grain, often in part because they want to promote fertility (laying) or muscle/plumpness/size (more meat and juicy fat). Heck, even among many traditional African peoples, young wives stuff themselves so as to fatten and thereby make themselves more fertile.
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Heck, even among many traditional African peoples, young wives stuff themselves so as to fatten and thereby make themselves more fertile.
I saw a documentary on that. Very interesting. They drank so much milk they'd throw up. lol
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LOL, yeah, the current obsession of young American women with skinnyness is a bizarre aberration and counter to history and valid science. On the bright side, recently some scientists dared to speak out against the skeletal obsession: http://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorbutterworth/2013/05/27/top-science-journal-rebukes-harvards-top-nutritionist (http://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorbutterworth/2013/05/27/top-science-journal-rebukes-harvards-top-nutritionist)
For millions of years, young, fertile/marriageable women were supposed to be plump, and men lean and hard, then with industrialization it bizarrely reversed--it became OK for men to be fat and useless for hunting or warring (granted, there are some exceptions among a few traditional pastoral peoples where young men are encouraged to fatten on raw milk, but only temporarily) and young women suddenly were supposed to become skeletons incapable of reproducing at the very time of life when it was most crucial for them to be fertile. This insanity has reached its current height among raw vegans who claim that everyone, including young women, should be skeletal, and everyone else is too "fat." The most extreme (such as 30BAD and 911ers) frequently attack anyone on the Internet with an ounce of flesh as "fat."
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I personally feel much better and more able to hunt after putting on this fat from all the dairy I binge on every day.
However I also think that its much more important to have fat on our bodies in today toxic world then even a hundred years ago when we didnt need the fat to deal with so much toxicity.
I am curious though, at what times were these men encouraged to fatten up on the dairy?
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Yes, and I should add that it's also not good for men to become skeletal, feminine and anemic like Durianrider, however well-intentioned he may be.
Here is an image of the Bodi fat men:
(http://[url=http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/pictures/110511-best-pictures-sony-world-photography-awards/#/world-photography-contest-2011-sports_35452_600x450.jpg]http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/pictures/110511-best-pictures-sony-world-photography-awards/#/world-photography-contest-2011-sports_35452_600x450.jpg[/url])
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LOL, yeah, the current obsession of young American women with skinnyness is a bizarre aberration and counter to history and valid science. On the bright side, recently some scientists dared to speak out against the skeletal obsession: http://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorbutterworth/2013/05/27/top-science-journal-rebukes-harvards-top-nutritionist (http://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorbutterworth/2013/05/27/top-science-journal-rebukes-harvards-top-nutritionist)
Right I remember in my "positive psychology" course they talked about how in the 50's a beautiful woman was slightly overweight. But the "frame" shifted at some point between now and then and it became unacceptable for a woman to have a little extra weight on them, and now the "norm" for beautiful women is to be skin and bones.
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Indeed, the shift seems to have occurred most dramatically beginning in the "flapper" era, when women started to become expected to participate as slave laborers in the industrial tyranny, rather than remain as human beings.
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I haven't checked out the links yet, and don't want to seem contradictory. I do have a quick question--doesn't Joel Salatin feed his chickens some grain? I thought I read that somewhere.
If you read the quotes from the three egg farms carefully, you'll notice that the ad copy for all three talks about 100% pasture, and nary a word about grains, even when grains are supplemented. I don't even know whether to believe the ones that say "never any grains."
As far as the practice of supplementing grains itself, I think it's a little like mothers who feed their newborns formula because they cannot see how much junior is getting in breast milk. Being good farmers, they throw down a little something in case the hens couldn't find enough larvae and want a little snack.
And then there are those who feed flax seed so they can write "omega 3" on the carton.
Caveat emptor.
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My grandfather used to feed his chickens flax seeds decades ago, and he died before the notion of "omega 3" came about. It seems to be an old practice that got somewhat of a revival. Then I noticed that some of the egg sellers that used to feed their chickens flax seeds switched to grains and soy plus omega 3 supplements (cheaper).
I found one of the claims re: Salatin: "Joel Salatin has to use grain to produce chicken. I've written before that this model is unsustainable. It's not possible to produce truly pastured American-style chicken." http://www.huntgatherlove.com/content/myth-sustainable-meat-and-james-mcwilliams (http://www.huntgatherlove.com/content/myth-sustainable-meat-and-james-mcwilliams)
What's your take on that?
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one thing, having travelled the world, at least in most latin countries, men have wives, which they want fat, so that they are not feeling anxious that another man will take her away from him. And then they have an affair with a younger, slimmer women. I found this to be true and explained to me several times in as many different parts of the world. So, maybe there's a more complete notion to the idea of woman are most beautiful when they are plump.
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I saw a documentary on that. Very interesting. They drank so much milk they'd throw up. lol
can you tell me the name of the documentary please?
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one thing, having travelled the world, at least in most latin countries, men have wives, which they want fat, so that they are not feeling anxious that another man will take her away from him. And then they have an affair with a younger, slimmer women. I found this to be true and explained to me several times in as many different parts of the world. So, maybe there's a more complete notion to the idea of woman are most beautiful when they are plump.
Have you traveled to a olive-oil consuming country (legit olive oil)? If so, how healthy were these individuals and were they skinny normal or fat|?
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can you tell me the name of the documentary please?
I don't know. I started watching half way through. I think it was on the discovery channel. Basically this specific culture in Africa would force the young girls to eat to fatten them up to make them attractive for men later on. They'd literally force feed them till they'd vomit on many occasions.
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Have you traveled to a olive-oil consuming country (legit olive oil)? If so, how healthy were these individuals and were they skinny normal or fat|?
people almost anywhere look healthier than in america.
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I have a bottle of Laurel Hill unfiltered organic extra virgin olive oil. I think I prefer it a bit over the Filippo Berio filtered EVOO I usually bought in the past, but I should do a taste test some day.
Here's some tips on EVOO from Mark Sisson:
"I recently came across a California unfiltered, cold-pressed extra virgin olive oil at the Santa Monica Trader Joe’s for around $7 a pint. This is far better than the jug of imported Greek oil I used to buy there (luckily, it was sold out, or else I might have gone with it like always). It’s drinkable, straight from the bottle, and it doesn’t coat your mouth in a jarring way. Don’t get me wrong – it’s oil, but it’s lighter and more delicate than most. Plus, it has that herbaceous olive scent that you want in an olive oil. When it goes down, you get that peppery aftertaste on your throat (that’s the antioxidant tocopherol content and a sign that the oil comes from the first harvest).
When choosing an oil, treat it a bit like wine and engage your senses. Smell it – it should smell like olives, very clean and almost like grass and apples. Don’t rely too much on sight – the color of an oil is easily manipulated. Instead, go with the one that really matters: taste. Take a half teaspoon or so into your mouth and swirl it around (again, like wine). First and foremost, it should taste like olives, but there are other flavors in the best oils. Grassiness, apples, even fennel are pretty common in really great olive oil. If it’s metallic-tasting, it’s probably rancid. If it’s light, delicious, and barely coats your mouth (without feeling greasy), it’s probably great stuff. And then my favorite part, the finish. The best oils from the first harvest with the highest antioxidant content will leave a spicy finish on your throat, like mild peppers.
Just experiment. Keep trying them until you find one you like. The different varietals are all unique, so your journey might be a long one."
Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-all-olive-oil-created-equal/#ixzz2Uub1Z8q3 (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-all-olive-oil-created-equal/#ixzz2Uub1Z8q3)
Regarding plump women as traditionally appealing, I've seen both male and female Jamaican (in person and via video) and Kitavan people (via video) compliment women by telling them they look fat (and other terms they use to mean fat, or at least thick and curvy - fit, plump, thick, healthy, pretty, juicy, ...).
"Those who have big legs and fat body, like arms too..., they look pretty when they wear grass skirts." - Kitavan woman, Tribal Wives Kitava, Tribal Wives: Kitava (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PfeXlwfWRg#ws)
The Venus of Willendorf
http://www.donsmaps.com/willendorf.html (http://www.donsmaps.com/willendorf.html)
(http://www.donsmaps.com/clickphotos/venuswillendorf.jpg)
"Thin may be in now, but prehistoric men 15,000 years ago preferred full-figured gals, suggest dozens of flint figurines excavated from a Paleolithic hunting site in Poland. ... Most of the carvings show a slight curve in the breast area. Very exaggerated curves depict the buttocks, while tiny rounded tops served as heads." - Cavemen Preferred Full-Figured Ladies, Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News, March 27, 2007, http://www.archaeology.ws/2007-4-3.htm (http://www.archaeology.ws/2007-4-3.htm)
(http://0.tqn.com/d/archaeology/1/G/-/o/wilczyce3.gif)
Female figurines from Wilczyce, Poland. 1-8, flint, 9, ivory, 10, bone
Antiquity Publications Ltd, published in Fiedorczuk et al. 2007
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/92/Venus-of-Schelklingen.jpg/330px-Venus-of-Schelklingen.jpg)
Venus of Hohle Fels
"A woman has to have strong legs to make a man happy." - Yesugei Baghatur (father of Temujin / Ghenghis Khan) in Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan
"I don't want no woman with no skinny legs" - Joe Tex (black blues musician, Southern USA, Skinny Legs and All song