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Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: MrBBQ on October 27, 2010, 03:06:13 am

Title: Sleepless...
Post by: MrBBQ on October 27, 2010, 03:06:13 am
Hey all,

I'm in a fairly desperate state and wondering if anyone has any advice or an explanation of what happened to me.

I'd increased my meat last week from 150g-200g to 300g and after meals noticing bloodshot eyes and general fatigue. The night afterwards (last Thursday) I was truly wired and could not drop/nod off as if I'd had caffeine or something (although I hadn't had any stimulant).

Since then, I've been experiencing severe sleep disturbances, either not really sleeping at all or sleeping and then waking at 3am/4am/5am, which is really abnormal for me (normally sleep right through).

Currently, I've been dragging myself to work like a zombie and somehow managing to pass off as a diligent professional, although I can imagine that I'm running mainly on adrenalin, which cannot be good. I look and feel terrible - like an old man with bloodshot eyes.

This event definitely coincided with the increase in meat per day, which seems to have unbalanced my neurotransmitters and/or stress hormones (e.g. cortisol).

I've been trying to benefit from some rest, but frankly, I'm going downhill fast without the regenerative REM/delta sleep that we all need.

Herbal remedies like chamomile and valerian amongst others have kept me a little relaxed, although this state will not be sustainable for long and I can imagine a visit to a naturopath soon.

Suffice to say I've scaled back my meat/fat rations to the previously prudent level.

Can anyone help me or did anyone have the same experiences with self-resolution later on? I'm getting to the point of desperation with this spectre... :'(

Thanks for your help.

Best,

Scotty
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: TylerDurden on October 27, 2010, 03:10:07 am
In my pre-raw days I would take  2 melatonin pills before bedtime for my chronic fatigue. They worked but, over time, they stopped working and had no effect on me anymore.

Try doing Intermittent Fasting, perhaps?
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: ForTheHunt on October 27, 2010, 03:12:55 am
First off, just relax. This will pass. We've all had something like this happen. It always passes.

So don't get super anxious. I know it seems hard but I think key here is just relaxing and allowing what ever happens to happen  :-*
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: MrBBQ on October 27, 2010, 03:42:48 am
Thanks Tyler - I've been thinking about that hack, even if not food-based...What was your ultimate CFS hack?

ForTheHunt, I always appreciate your wise counsel - I'm certainly trying to be Zen, even though I'm feeling/looking awful. One can only do one's best in a given situation - the rest is up to the cosmos...Sleep deprivation has its potent psychological effects tho'...
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: TylerDurden on October 27, 2010, 03:52:05 am
Well, simply getting rid of raw and pasteurised dairy and eating some raw meats helped get rid of my CFS symptoms, though it took 4 full months to get rid of it all. Also, many RVAFers suggest eating raw organ-meats as the higher nutrient levels in them seem to speed up healing.

You could also try high-meat though this is usually only recommended for those with 1 years RVAF diet experience. High-meat really does help boost one's mood and energy levels.  I wish I had had the guts to try high meat right from the start.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: goodsamaritan on October 27, 2010, 05:46:43 am
Try a 3 day orange juice fast.
It's not always eating time.
I just finished a 3 day coconut water fast.

Do not watch TV, at all.
Replace all your room lights with warm white.
Stop using computers and cell phones by 7pm.

Look up EFT and other healers like Dr. Leonard Coldwell who i inspirational and can teach you to relax.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: yuli on October 27, 2010, 06:07:10 am
Hey,

I always get sleepless when I change things in my diet, especially quantities of meat and fat, fruit....I think your brain just needs to adjust to it, like others above said.
The funny thing is I'll get insomnia if I eat too much, but once I do fall asleep, I'll sleep at least 8 hours straight. Of course if you have to go to work that doesn't work out so good  :P
Most people have their big meal at night...but what if you try eating earlier in the day and go to sleep hungry/empty stomach, maybe that will help?
Another thing is, I get sleepless when I don't exercise enough! It's like because my body didn't move enough during the day my brain has to stay awake to make up for that, perhaps you need to have more physical activity, I think that will definitely help sleep.
If I exercised a lot, I can drink 2 big cups of strong coffee and then go to bed, when you really want to sleep you'll sleep. Getting physically tired should be able to make you want to sleep after, not right after but a little while after.
All the dietary things mentioned are helpful, but when you need to move you ass more nothing can replace that  ;D

Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: MrBBQ on October 27, 2010, 07:30:11 pm
Thanks for the responses, which are most appreciated.

Last night, maybe I got 5 hours sleep, which is an improvement, although today I've woken up with slight blurred vision. I just ate a meal of meat/fat/eggs and already I feel "wired" again with slight ache where my heart is.

It's as if meat/fat is stimulating cortisol release in my body and making me stressed. I'm actually becoming scared now about what I can eat anymore, given that my staple is meat/fat.

The only thing about fruit fasting is that I would rapidly lose weight and they again may affect my health negatively.

I have the feeling that my body is just giving up on everything, which is sad because I was interested in continuing to live, possibly with some measure of health (this negativity seems to be the cortisol frantically speaking).
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: TylerDurden on October 27, 2010, 07:51:54 pm
Eat no later than 5pm, maybe?
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: RawZi on October 27, 2010, 07:55:53 pm
    Are you eating red meat, white meat, a mix of the two, fish?  Are you eating vegetables in some form?  What about water therapy (shower, bath etc)?
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: Brother on October 27, 2010, 08:06:43 pm
First off, just relax. This will pass. We've all had something like this happen. It always passes.

So don't get super anxious. I know it seems hard but I think key here is just relaxing and allowing what ever happens to happen  :-*

I double this. I have had those lows. Usually it helps me to just ramp up my fat intake. I mean go on a fat binge! If that does not help after a few days, then I load on carbs throgh berries (a single days binge, usually makes it go away).

if you have tried all the advice people have to offer and you find no change in your condition. Then I would get hold of some Kava (Piper Metysticum/Intoxicating Pepper) and drink that before night time for a couple of days. If you are not one of the people who are immune to kavalactones, a large dose (1g or so) of them will introduce a heavy dreamless sleep from which you wake up really well rested. I suspect that a couple of days, a week at most with a cup or 2 would do the trick. But this is just a symptom treatment that can help prevent you from going into a spiral of stress over it, which itself is draining on your resources. It does not adress whatever issue there might be.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: Ioanna on October 28, 2010, 09:01:48 am
is it possible that this was too much??.. did you increase out of hunger?  eating too much of even the foods that have been most beneficial to my recovery DOES NOT work for me. eating late at night also does not work well for me, i am very much awake after eating.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: shel on October 28, 2010, 09:24:56 am
hi Scotty. maybe i can help.

i've been lurking around here for a while and may as well dive in for this one.

i think i might know where you're coming from regarding your problem. i started an experiment involving mostly meat and fat with bone broths (WAPF's purported miracle elixer... hah!). the pounding heart and vibrating anxiety (especially at night) that i developed within about 4-5 months left me in much the same state as you. haggard and burnt out.

regarding broth, it seems that some have bad reactions to isolated amino acids (in my case, tyrosine and other amino acid supplements, and the cursed glutamic acid. a pox on WAPF's house! l)). bad hydrolysation effects for some of us might be another reason to go mainly raw.

the crap i went through only stopped when i quit eating so much fat and protein and those stupid bone broths. if i ate one or the other, nothing changed. i don't do well on a high fat or fat/protein diet. my backpacking, cycling and mountaineering suffered big time.

everyone is different, and i don't make unequivocal statements about what others should eat. some do well eating only animal products. good on 'em. but maybe you are thinking too much about diet, and worrying, like some others, about starch, fruit and phytotoxins in veggies etc. maybe one who doesn't have problems with specific foods or macronutrients should simply eat more instinctively, in a general "paleo" context? i don't know...

...so this is my diet (trust me; i've done 'em all, from vegan, to down the line carnivory, to everything in-between):

morning: fruit (yes, those candy bars on trees that Harris vilifies. nonsense). 2 bananas, some pineapple or melon or whatever else moves the spirit.
lunch: meat to satisfaction, some steamed roots (carrots, beets, parsnips, etc.).
home from work: a big green salad with olive oil, cider vinegar, some chopped up meat in it, some berries, and whatever the hell else i feel like eating (in a general paleo context).

nothing written in stone, this is just a general day.

macronutrients seem to fluctuate, with fat hanging around the 50% range (gms), though i don't give a shit about it.

so, i hope this helps. good luck, and don't think so much  ;).
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: miles on October 28, 2010, 09:36:15 am
Maybe you should try moving to Seattle.

Hi shel, good post.

Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: Hannibal on October 28, 2010, 02:19:40 pm
eating late at night also does not work well for me, i am very much awake after eating. 
Eating some amount of carbs at the end of the day supposedly helps with having a sound sleep (- serotonin being released)
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: yuli on October 28, 2010, 08:12:13 pm
It does work!
I wanted to go to bed early last night because I have shifted to a very late night schedule and wanted to shift back, but I couldn't shift back because I was never tired enough at night anymore, so I pigged out on honey and fruit, worked like a charm!
Had a huge bowl of ground beef and calf liver, a little after I ate a prickly pear cactus, a bowl of wild grape, 5 tiny apples in season, a bowl of fresh blackberries and about 3 tablespoons of honey, that finally put me to sleep early, thats how much sweetness it took ha ha (boy that was a lot of food for me)
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: Arthas_ on October 28, 2010, 08:37:59 pm
To me it seems your problem is magnesium deficiency. It's hard to find a concentrated food source of magnesium, so you might try supplementing it. Chelated form is better as magnesium salts could be hard on the stomach. I suggest 400mg to 600mg right before going to bed. You might be skeptical, but I really think it's worth a try.



Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: Hannibal on October 28, 2010, 08:48:03 pm
It's hard to find a concentrated food source of magnesium
Pumpkins seeds - 540 mg per 100 g
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: Arthas_ on October 28, 2010, 10:00:42 pm
Pumpkins seeds - 540 mg per 100 g

You're right. But you do realize 100g is a lot. Eating 100g of it every single day is not harmless to say the least. Seeds in general contain many antinutrients. You would have to roast them, and even then they're not safe in high amounts. Here in Brazil I can get hold of pure magnesium powder(chelated or not) without any fillers. I consider it safe and better than pumpkin seeds, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: andvanwyk on October 29, 2010, 12:57:53 am
I've found that getting about an hour of sunlight per day extremely beneficial (I think it might take a few weeks to work but after that you can really feel the difference). The sunlight resets your circadian rhythm and gets your body to produce melatonin at the right time. I've heard vitamin d also helps synthesis certain neurotransmitters which I'm assuming will help you sleep and lower the stress.

I second the opinion on magnesium. I'm taking transdermal magnesium and defnitely have found it to be very relaxing. Eventually I'd like to live without supplements but I'm finding the magnesium too beneficial at the moment.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: MrBBQ on October 29, 2010, 02:48:22 am
Thanks for the insightful answers, which are most appreciated.

I ended up gorging on fat the other night (according to advice I chose), which massively released bile and moved too much water from my upper intestines, thereby dehydrating me and adding/extending a few new permanent wrinkles on my face. I've noticed this about dehydration and my face - more pronounced/extended wrinkles!

Anyways, after eating the fat, I was awake the entire night with an unbelievably powerful, steady heartbeat - not one wink of sleep, nevermind reaching REM/delta sleep. Today at work was a disaster but the funny thing I'd noticed is I'd been neglecting the carbs (someone astute mentioned carbs later on before bed) and I had that familiar ketone breath (I actually like the sensation of ketone breath). When I somehow managed to arrive at work, I decided to type "ketosis" and "insomnia" into Google - that was a revelation...It also reminded me of The Hibernation Diet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c1lbfhPLeM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c1lbfhPLeM)), which I always found particularly effective.

Good advice on vitamin D - I've actually ordered a vitamin D lamp for over winter, so that should be useful.

Magnesium was always trouble for me in rock/chelated forms (my first severe dehydration causing wrinkles), so unless it's a food complex, there's no chance it's passing my lips. Transdermal is a good idea and I'm yet to buy some of that oil - does it affect the bowel in any way?

Funnily enough, on the matter of wrinkles, I've directly experienced wrinkle healing with daily kombucha (a source of bounce tissue building blocks like GAGs) and L-proline/L-glycine, along with amla/triphala (high vitamin C).

I agree about bone broths completely - they are currently poisonous for me given the excitotoxicity, although maybe there's more to the puzzle of excitotoxicity in certain brains - e.g. magnesium and B6 as calcium channel blocker, as well as sufficient taurine (maybe low stomach acid is implicated in not enough amino acids uptaken).

WAPF certainly does not have the whole picture, although observing primitives is a good foundation.

I love Washington state, so Seattle is a great idea...Touche!

I started to eat more meat as a means for more minerals and more weight gain. Instead I got bloodshot eyes and wired insomnia - the saga continues...
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: miles on October 29, 2010, 06:13:21 am
I started to eat more meat as a means for more minerals and more weight gain. Instead I got bloodshot eyes and wired insomnia - the saga continues...

You increased your meat by 100g, and also increased your fat by 100g at the same time, right? meat=/=fat.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: andvanwyk on October 29, 2010, 06:34:10 pm
Transdermal magnesium doesn't effect the bowels!
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: MrBBQ on October 30, 2010, 04:13:24 am
No, I decreased my fat intake again (according to your advice) and increased meat intake. There's no way I can take anymore than 200g meat per day - it destroys me. Even my instinct rejects eating more than that. I know it doesn't reconcile with everyone's experience but frankly, too much meat is not good in my opinion - maybe it's a kidney insufficiency thing, particularly with renal acid load. I really think those bubbles in the urine are from bicarbonate buffers made by the kidney in the presence of acids - the more meat/eggs, the more bubbles. There is something nice about those bubbles though, I have to admit - I can almost feel comfort in past paleo lives looking at those bubbles, although maybe they wouldn't be so self-evident when pissing up a tree or in a stream (certainly not into the wind).

The other problem I discovered with high fat is that I have to eat it 30g per serving, otherwise there's too much bile in my intestine and the resultant peristaltic waves push sodium-rich fluid down the small intestine (before reabsorption), resulting in severe dehydration and new facial wrinkles (from water moving out of cells due to change in osmolarity, causing shrinkage and death).

Also, I think insulin promotes potassium loss (kaliuresis) vs sodium recycling (antinatriuresis), which is another interesting electrolyte fact - maybe a little salt is good for seasoning, especially as a source of chloride for stomach acid.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: yuli on October 30, 2010, 05:27:29 am
People demonize salt but I have no issues adding a bit of salt every day (I am talking a BIT of sea salt)...I personally believe it gives me a beneficial effect, and I don't feel good when I have no salt at all for too long, its not that I crave it due to salt addiction, not at all, but I feel something is missing. I don't salt my meats in a long time now but I do have a piece of raw cheese often, which provides me with the salt I need. Or sometimes I will add some sea salt to a shredded veggie and avocado salad when I have it.
Last summer when I was camping close to ST Lawrence I found so much sea-salt on the rocks, to anyone living close to ANY salty body of water getting sea salt is MAD easy, so its not so modernized as we think.
Oh and even if I eat some salt, I have found I hardly ever drink water, I am now having to consciously remind myself to drink at least some water, so salt does not dehydrate me, my body is actually using it. What dehydrates me is cooked meat, even without salt added. Just a thought...
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: MrBBQ on November 05, 2010, 10:02:57 pm
I've not managed to reply on this thread due to major health problems (and trying to keep my day job), whereby I'm still not sleeping and now it seems that I'm not producing any bowel movements, plus I'm losing weight rapidly, even though I'm eating plenty of food and certainly not constipated/bunged up.

I've thought back and recalled that I tried taking a soil-based organism probiotic called "Prolisan" from Harmonic Health in the UK (I was also buying kombucha capsules from there), which must have kicked it all off (the maldigestion).

In the absence of stools and weight gain, I'm concluding that I'm not absorbing my food and that these proliferated organisms are consuming it on my behalf. From the perspective of no nourishment (starvation), severe sleep deprivation (no chance to fall asleep) and no elimination (no stools produced, only gas), I'm presuming that I'm on my doomed last legs with no clue as to what to do...I don't know what my inner ecosystem must look like now, but I can guess it's deranged somehow. I would try high meat and probiotics, but I'm wary about poisoning myself even further, given that I'm not fully compus mentus.

Another problem is that when I'm digesting, my electrolyte balance gets disturbed, so I get dehydrated, which further damages my skin/collagen - this is noticably aging my face.

I saw my doctor today, who has prescribed temazepam for sleeping and reassured me that I will not die, with an optional referral to a gastroenterologist, although I'm not so convinced. I've tried contacting the importer in the Netherlands (Green People) for a description of the specific organisms, but they don't answer the phone yet.

All in all, my health seems a little trashed. I was considering some kind of beam ray practitioner, but they don't really seem to be available in my region (UK). I suppose a zapper might be an alternative, but I'm damned if I know frequencies and things.

I should have better known better from past experiences with other-than-foods, but this sounded pretty natural to me, so I didn't even think twice.

As you can imagine, I'm currently in hell with sleep deprivation, malnutrition/starvation, anxiety and no elimination. It reminds me of the Laurel & Hardy saying "that's another fine mess you've got me into Stanley".

I'm not sure if this will be my last post, so I wish you all well on your healing journey, be it short and direct or long and winding.

If anyone has insights about Royal Rife/Zapping vs SBOs, it would be greatly appreciated, especially in the UK.

Sayonara!

Scotty
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: ForTheHunt on November 05, 2010, 10:07:54 pm
I've not managed to reply on this thread due to major health problems (and trying to keep my day job), whereby I'm still not sleeping and now it seems that I'm not producing any bowel movements, plus I'm losing weight rapidly, even though I'm eating plenty of food and certainly not constipated/bunged up.

I've thought back and recalled that I tried taking a soil-based organism probiotic called "Prolisan" from Harmonic Health in the UK (I was also buying kombucha capsules from there), which must have kicked it all off (the maldigestion).

In the absence of stools and weight gain, I'm concluding that I'm not absorbing my food and that these proliferated organisms are consuming it on my behalf. From the perspective of no nourishment (starvation), severe sleep deprivation (no chance to fall asleep) and no elimination (no stools produced, only gas), I'm presuming that I'm on my doomed last legs with no clue as to what to do...I don't know what my inner ecosystem must look like now, but I can guess it's deranged somehow. I would try high meat and probiotics, but I'm wary about poisoning myself even further, given that I'm not fully compus mentus.

Another problem is that when I'm digesting, my electrolyte balance gets disturbed, so I get dehydrated, which further damages my skin/collagen - this is noticably aging my face.

I saw my doctor today, who has prescribed temazepam for sleeping and reassured me that I will not die, with an optional referral to a gastroenterologist, although I'm not so convinced. I've tried contacting the importer in the Netherlands (Green People) for a description of the specific organisms, but they don't answer the phone yet.

All in all, my health seems a little trashed. I was considering some kind of beam ray practitioner, but they don't really seem to be available in my region (UK). I suppose a zapper might be an alternative, but I'm damned if I know frequencies and things.

I should have better known better from past experiences with other-than-foods, but this sounded pretty natural to me, so I didn't even think twice.

As you can imagine, I'm currently in hell with sleep deprivation, malnutrition/starvation, anxiety and no elimination. It reminds me of the Laurel & Hardy saying "that's another fine mess you've got me into Stanley".

I'm not sure if this will be my last post, so I wish you all well on your healing journey, be it short and direct or long and winding.

If anyone has insights about Royal Rife/Zapping vs SBOs, it would be greatly appreciated, especially in the UK.

Sayonara!

Scotty

I've done SBO's and Zapping. Didn't have issues with neither.

What is your diet like? Have you considered going all fruit for a while, to help rehydrate and help with elimination? Being constipated for ages is just the worst.

If I were in your shoes I'd buy plenty of normal probiotics + lots and lots of fruit. And then if that works, then go for high meat

Hope you get well
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: MrBBQ on November 05, 2010, 10:33:49 pm
Hey ForTheHunt,

Nice one for the advice - fruits (simple sugars) + standard probiotics is something I was considering myself (a la the SCD diet), so that seems like good advice to restore some kind of normality, although I read these SBOs can be very persistent in their "task" depending on the strains, which I'm yet to discover via the importer.

I ordered the Natren probiotics, which are especially meant to be the best, particularly having no nasty fillers like magnesium stearate. The only thing is that they were delivered to my office, which I would have to visit to collect.

Natren formulates a probiotic called "Healthy Trinity", which is very potent but contains sunflower oil, which totally discouraged me. I ordered their dairy-containing powders, which despite the trace dairy seem the most benign (if trace dairy could be benign), although some people have said that only the Trinity formulation works (I read that after I made the decision).

The more I continue on this journey, the deeper I seem to get into complications, when all I'm looking to do is simplify. I suppose hindsight is always 20/20...

Thanks for your wellwishing and if the avatar is your physique, well established!
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: ForTheHunt on November 05, 2010, 10:57:33 pm
Sounds like a plan.

For me, when ever I get sick it always seems to work out best if I just give my body rest.

I.e. I eat less, I rest more, I meditate, don't stress etc. Don't underestimate the power thoughts can have.

I think mono eating fruit could be helpful in your case. I wouldn't be surprised if you started eliminating again in a day or two.

Mango, oranges and melons are especially powerful for relieving constipation. Also make sure you drink plenty of water a long with the fruit. Keep us posted
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: andvanwyk on November 06, 2010, 05:13:14 pm
I really think you'll find the magnesium tremendously beneficial. I see some of your thoughts and thought processes in my own and a lot of it is just the anxiety talking. If your bowels can't handle magnesium glycinate then go crazy with the transdermal form and defnitely take lots of epson salt baths. You can do this while eating the fruit. It will relax you tremendously i promise.  Just do it properly and give it a week to work.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: MrBBQ on November 19, 2010, 03:07:09 am
Well, I've been off the forum again due to major sleep deficiency and fatigue.

I've toyed with the transdermal magnesium chloride and I can say that it's nasty stuff - left me with relaxation of too many smooth muscles, particularly of the small/large bowel. Magnesium transdermally also caused racing heart and totally exacerbated my insomnia.

I must conclude once again that magnesium from rocks/salt is not designed for humans.

Anyways, I've tracked my possible dehydration down to aldosterone, which is made by the adrenals for controlling re-uptake of sodium and release of potassium by the kidneys.

With my chronic sleeplessness and dehydration, coupled with deranged digestion, I can only now conclude that I'm walking the path of adrenal fatigue/exhaustion, which is a very bumpy ride.

The "final straw" with my adrenals (the night I went to bed "wired") seemed to correlate with accidentally entering ketosis (had ketone breath) and increasing meat consumption along with decreased fat consumption.

My paleo journey seems to be a horror story compared with everyone else.

Every time I eat excessive meat and insufficient carbs, I'm laying in bed wired with a racing heart. It seems my cortisol is disturbed whenever I kill the carbs and increase meat/fat. The only thing is now with my electrolyte problems and sleeplessness, it seems my adrenal cortex is FUBARd.

I'm clueless is to why adrenal recoveries have been reported on raw paleo diets when it seems to have constituted the final straw in my case.

Trying to not try to try not to be anxious is an experience of swimming against the tide at the moment!

Anyone recover with wholefood vitamin C and raw glandulars, along with adaptogens? I'm reluctant to do this "on my own" given my poor experiences with just about every trial I make...

Help me please! (thanks!)
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: KD on November 19, 2010, 03:46:01 am
My opinion honestly is that none of these problems will be addressed without proper sleep, even if you have the right components of which are unknown. This unknown seems to in turn be exacerbating both the physical and mental components to your issue and likely any right combinations of vitamins will not click in time to fix the sleeping necessary for it to work. Not sleeping is in itself a huge problem for any cortex and has brought me close to total breakdown or probably death many times.

I would look into some kind of prescription sleep aid, take the week off work, queue up some Bill Murray movies and curl up with some non diet related books that take place on future planets. I would eat whatever combinations of things you were doing prior to things getting really lousy and eat whatever foods work per your digestion no matter how productive you think they might be for your healing. Once you have a decent rest and can get on a good schedule, turn some energy back on to troubleshooting and not a day prior.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: MrBBQ on November 19, 2010, 04:20:17 am
You're a sound man (wise teaching) and I've just been contemplating popping one of my prescribed Temazepams (I know benzos are bad) early doors to get me into the circadian jive...

I did seem to reach a few days of less dysregulation after my first prescription nap, but maybe the tide turned again because I broke off the prescription too early.

I love your prescription of future planet fiction and Bill Murray (awesome!), although I'm unsure as to the creeper coming back when the lights go out, if you know what I mean.

What's your experience of insomnia anyway? Did you break the vicious circle by hitting the meds yourself or was it self-prescribed cannabis ingestion or something?

I'm fairly sure that too low carbs rewired my circuits after a collective period of covert stressors like negligence for aspects of life, job performance, nutritional pressure, loneliness, relationship breakdowns/obscurities. Being Zen I suppose should allow the wisdom of the "atman" to shine through, but I suppose that's how spiritual colours are gradually accumulated - through direct experience.

Given my signature text, the lines "fate is not without a sense of irony" and "be careful what you wish for" are most bemusing/amusing...

Tyler Durden's words "everything is a copy of a copy of a copy" strongly resonate with me now, hehe.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: KD on November 19, 2010, 04:49:43 am
If there is something like melatonin or herbal teas or valerian that works i'd say go for it, never did much for me. Not sure about pot, havn't messed around with it much lately. I'm guessing similar to teas for extreme insomnia it might be less effective unless the cause is largely anxiety and not physical. I don't have much experience with benzos. Is that halcion? sounds nice...I have tried some pretty hardcore things in the past, regular ambien did/does the trick for me when needed. My experience is that other than it being a drug/processed/heated, the actual sleep is almost as beneficial than regular sleep and the healing on mostly raw foods can still move forward. Certainly more so then with the perfect diet or fasting/healing regime with no sleep. Honestly I would take whatever works till you find some other strategy to go off of it while getting the same rest and sleep. Here and there won't cut it.

not sure about the low carb thing, again I think the searching for explanations/reasons kind of goes hand in hand with being away form the now moment we seek and usually perpetuates reasons to dwell in depression or anxiety. Even if the root of these things is in the physical, the real, what can we do but work to make our present situations more satisfying? often times this involves one to 'stop digging' to use the lame saying.

I'm inclined to believe there is some possible link between raw or low carb etc..with insomnia..just from being exposed to peoples stories (when they are being honest). But like I said I would just focus on one thing (the sleeping) and then move on to the next thing (adrenals/thyroid etc..). I'm not sure what you mean exactly by creeper, but yeah the plan of laying around and doing absolutely nothing will work terribly if you do not get at least 8-10 hrs of real physical sleep either assisted or not. You need both types of rest I think right now. In normal day to day, the strategy that is helpful for me is just expending alot of energy, but that doesn't seem appropriate right now.
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: goodsamaritan on November 19, 2010, 05:30:46 am
What kind of work do you do?
How old are you?
What time do you try to sleep?
Title: Re: Sleepless...
Post by: dsohei on November 19, 2010, 07:53:31 am
if magnesium stimulates you, then you are one of the people who it reacts oppositely to. do it in the morning instead, with some natural calm drink.
it sounds like your cortisol is too high, which means your stress and systemic inflammation is also too high.
learn to meditate, find out if you are eating allergenic foods, get blackout curtains to rest in total 100% darkness. dont eat 3 hours before bed. turn off all electronics and power strips, have good air circulation in room (hepa filter or airwise), drink enough real water w/sea salt or lemon juice, see a naturopath or functional biological medicine doctor.