Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach => Topic started by: cjb on June 27, 2009, 07:19:24 pm
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My tendency is to stick with beef in all its forms. I am thinking about trying chicken or pork raw. Can anyone tell me about different benefits they have had on chicken and pork or fish versus just beef? While I find any form of beef totally appealing in the raw, the thought of raw chicken grosses me out. Raw pork seems even more unappealing. But I am wondering if this would add to my overall health and perhaps chicken and pork are more appealing when not cooked.
I am writing this, too, b/c I do have those fears about "worms" from pork or weird stuff from raw fish. But this doesn't really match with everything else b/c I am not a frequent hand washer, never worry about "catching" germs, and am not concerned in the slightest about eating raw meat. Hopefully, listening to some of you can allay this.
What has been your experience with chicken, fish, or pork in raw form? I wonder if I would like it better b/c chicken is not very appealing to me, nor is pork. And fish, of course, I have eaten raw, but for some reason, the past two times I have had sashimi, I felt like I was going to throw up later that night. And this is unusual for me b/c I can eat REALLY old meat and never feel sick.
I am very inspired reading on this site. I did raw foods for several years, then went back to regular eating, and am on close to ZC now. I am finding that raw feels so much lighter, and I need much less to feel satisfied. This is a great thing!
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What has been your experience with chicken, fish, or pork in raw form?
They are all better dried to taste.
I don't think worms/parasites take well to being dried. ;)
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I've tried chicken several times, it's not my favorite food. Some chickens taste better than others. I don't dream about it. Unlike beef where my mouth waters over it.
I also tried duck. Not something I crave about.
I tried organically raised boar - raw tastes good, but supply is very hard / sporadic in my area.
Raw fish is a staple where I live, I like raw tuna, raw dorado, dilis, blue marlin, oysters, shellfish, squid, tangigue, shrimp... many many stuff, as long as you can get it really fresh, same day.
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thank you! You are all so helpful on here. I have been poring over all the material since yesterday. Lex referred me to this site. I love it!!! I notice I am so much "lighter" when not cooking.
so what about the fish and the mercury issue? I used to LOVE eating raw tuna but I think the mercury is a problem even if you are not eating carbs. What about this....
so it doesn't seem as if anyone is RAVING about raw pork or chicken. makes me not motivated to eat it. blech. but I would be willing if someone had fantastic effects from it. ;)
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Aajonus says in his books that raw chicken is good for something. Of course it must be organic.
The freshest raw tuna is amazing, get the top most quality. I'm not scared of the mercury warnings. I believe since we eat the tuna raw, whatever mercury in the raw tuna is in homeopathic form... beneficial to us.
I feed raw tuna to my kids regularly. To make it more fun, I get nori (japanese sea weed paper) and some ripe yellow mango and they roll their own sushi. It's fun for them, healthy party food. And it's all raw except for the nori.
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CJB,
Most of us that have been doing this awhile find that red meats tend to be much more satisfying than fish or fowl. When eating fish or fowl we are soon hungry again where red meats will allow us to eat just one or maybe two meals per day at most. The fatty acid profile of the fat in grass fed red meats is also closer to what many of us believe we evolved on. There is much less fat in fish and fowl and what fat there is, is more unstaurated and we need saturated fats as our primary fuel.
My suggestion is to go ahead and try everything as there certainly is no penalty for experimenting with different meats and you'll soon learn what works best for you and what doesn't. Some things will satify and some won't. Have some fun with it. You'll learn quickly. Also, start a Journal and record what you learn about the different foods you eat. It will help others on their journey.
Lex
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Thank you! I will start my journal!
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I stay away, mostly, from pork or fowl but that's solely because most domesticated pigs and fowl are fed on diets very high in grains, which makes their nutrient-profile(and taste) very poor. On the other hand, I love eating wild boar meat or wild mallard duck when available in season etc. Don't worry re the issue of parasites. We all start out phobic re parasites at the beginning, but the vast majority, other than a tiny handful of hypochondriacs, don't worry about the issue after being years on RPD diet without ever having a problem.Besides, farms in the west are so over-regulated that even the organic ones are forced to deworm their animals as a routine procedure.
Re fish:- I find that raw seafood is particularly useful for my health and I generally find that I thrive better when I have at least some portion of seafood in my diet(10-40%?) Raw oysters, for example, IMO, provide me with far more nutrients than much of the grassfed meats I buy, and are as good as the wildgame meats I get(such as wild hare carcasses). Raw (wild)
seafood is very high in vitamins and minerals and, IMO, much of the grassfed meat, however 100% grassfed, is substandard by comparison. This is mainly because they don't feed their cattle on a wide variety of herbs etc., which is what would happen in the wild. Just don't buy farmed seafood.
There's no need to worry about the issue of mercury in fish. The whole issue is a scam dreamt up by the pro-vegan PETA and the green movement. Here's a (still ongoing) study which debunked the whole notion, which focused on Seychelles Islanders who ate 10 times as much seafood as the average American yet never had the slightest problem:-
http://www.rochester.edu/pr/releases/med/mercury.htm
Here's a website which describes some of the major flaws in the mercury-fish theory:-
http://fishscam.com/mercuryMyths.cfm
The mercury-fish theory is so often cited that I think I'll have to put info debunking it in the sticky thread for RPD newbies.
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Hmm, Geoff....this is food for thought! Why is it you think that our friend got mercury poisoning from eating swordfish, and tuna, etc. and then when he stopped, he was able to reverse it. He doesn't eat low carb or close to. This is confusing to me, b/c he did have mercury poisoning. HOw could it not be right?? I would LOVE if it is not right b/c I really enjoy raw tuna. this is one of those things that would be very nice for me to be reassured about, but I am not seeing how this could be...I would LOVE to be wrong about this. It makes me very angry that I can't eat tuna!
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Hmm, Geoff....this is food for thought! Why is it you think that our friend got mercury poisoning from eating swordfish, and tuna, etc. and then when he stopped, he was able to reverse it. He doesn't eat low carb or close to. This is confusing to me, b/c he did have mercury poisoning. HOw could it not be right?? I would LOVE if it is not right b/c I really enjoy raw tuna. this is one of those things that would be very nice for me to be reassured about, but I am not seeing how this could be...I would LOVE to be wrong about this. It makes me very angry that I can't eat tuna!
I experienced true mercury poisoning from my amalgams and the removal of my amalgams without a biological dentist's equipment while my eczema was raging in 2005. I personally know what mercury poisoning is. And I'm pretty sure I don't get mercury poisoning from the raw ocean fish I eat.
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Well, my view is that what people usually think of as mercury-poisoning is always due to some other unrelated health-problem. Genuine mercury-poisoning is very rare(such as what happened at Minamata Bay).
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They are all better dried to taste.
I don't think worms/parasites take well to being dried. ;)
Drying at low temperatures reportedly does not kill parasites, but freezing at sufficiently low temps and for sufficiently long periods is supposed to kill them. From my brief search on the subject, there are apparently different opinions on how low one must go and for how long.
I'm not particularly concerned about parasite infection and haven't taken much in the way of precautions, but I am interested in what herbal treatments actually work, since it only takes one infection to make life miserable and I plan to eat this way for a long, long time. Goodsamaritan, which of the treatments that you and your wife tried would you say works best and how do you know it worked (did you see excreted parasites)?
Interestingly, I saw a documentary in which chimpanzees ate the bumpy leaves of a particular tree to clean out parasites. When Paleo humans were new to an area they probably watched other mammals to see what herbal/natural treatments to use as well as what plants were safe to eat.
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Read Aajonus' newsletter archives. He studied mercury and fish eating. You'll have answers there. Did your carber friend eat their carbs cooked? How about their muscle meats? Fats?
I eat raw chicken, raw duck and raw pork. I ate raw pork tonight, not uncommon for me. I bought raw chicken yesterday to eat today. I used to eat more raw chicken. I liked it better. I eat more raw pork at the moment. I like that better. When I first started I ate more raw fish for my meat. I liked that. I have not liked raw beef yet. I do like raw buffalo. I do not like raw deer.
Raw "white" meats help calm. Raw red meats give you iron. Raw fish can help your nervous system and glands. That journal sounds like an excellent way to learn and teach.
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I'm not particularly concerned about parasite infection and haven't taken much in the way of precautions, but I am interested in what herbal treatments actually work, since it only takes one infection to make life miserable and I plan to eat this way for a long, long time. Goodsamaritan, which of the treatments that you and your wife tried would you say works best and how do you know it worked (did you see excreted parasites)?
We've got a full range of anti-parasite stuff:
- hulda clark type zappers, we have 3 of these
- herbal dewormers from barefootherbalistmh.com and humaworm.com
- beam ray treatments from a very knowledgable operator
I'm not afraid of parasites. I recognize they exist in symbiosis with us most of the time. But during my non paleo days and lifestyle where we got a lot of chemical pollution from alcohols and more... some parasites may have grown where they should not be... for example the liver.
Parasite cleansing needs to be well thought out. You have to clean your colon and your kidneys first before you do your parasite cleanses because through those channels the dead bodies of the parasites will have to go through.
These anti-parasite measures have saved our family members time, effort and money which the western medical industry has no answers.
I used to be awfully sick with eczema, my first deworming resulted in expelling of tomato peel like parasites.
My first born boy has parasites and has been pooping worms when we do dewormings for him. I feel he needs more nutrition than deworming.
My then 3 year old girl had a painful nape no chiropractor could solve, just 20 minutes of zapping did it.
I did a recent beam ray appointment to look for hidden infections in my jaw... man, I pooped and pooped the following day and my pee smelled really bad afterwards... that beam ray is powerful stuff. Imagine the damage to someone who has impaired kidneys and colon... scary.
My wife has the symptoms of a beginning amoebiasis, she took the herbal dewormer to take care of it immediately.
Not only do these anti-parasite stuff work, they are very powerful and not to be toyed around with.
Barefoot says his dewormer is powerful and safe because it is nutrition given to the liver so the body can cleanse its own system of parasites instead of directly harming the parasites.
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Beam ray treatments? ??? l) :o It sounds like something out of star trek (and as nonsensical as much of the language/gobbledygook in star trek "re "reversing the polarity" etc.
But then I'm a parasite-skeptic, I guess.
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Beam Ray is a the brand name. Generically these are called frequency generators. It was raymond royal rife who first hunted down various parasites, bacteria, viruses with his most powerful optical microscopes back in the 1930s. He found out that each creature had a mortal frequency, hit that frequency and you disintigrate the culprits. It is like science fiction, but it works.
Blogged here was my beam ray experience http://www.curemanual.com/blog/2009/06/the-amazing-beam-ray-machine-for-parasites-bacteria-fungi-and-viruses-operated-by-romy-macapagal/
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How did he show that the organism was dead after applying the frequency, and that it didn't hurt anything else?
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Good Samaritan: I am concerned that you and your family seem to be so susceptible to parasite infections. What is the source of this? How did you diagnose?
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Yeah... Wha'gwan whid dat...? Is it just because of where he comes from they don't de-worm? In that case parasites may be a big threat, but just not many get through to our plates. I've heard of tapeworms growing huge inside people and eating their way out; or coming out of people's mouths. I've seen them come out in pig faeces and they's massive...
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In warm areas like GS lives, there isn't a die off period from cold weather, thus the populations of parasites can be astronomical to what we have here.
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It is the weather/climate/environment/terrain in the gut that matters.
So-called parasites should only be a problem if we eat neolithic "food".
Such problems could even be considered the result of a test to see if we really have been eating a paleolithic diet.
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Isn't it possible all those parasites could be from the fish?
I red somewhere you need to freeze fish for 14 days to kill fish eggs.
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I think you mean to kill fish parasites and their eggs, and yes, 14 days is the recommended time frame I've seen. I don't bother with it, though. Fish are the only animal I've seen parasites in, so I find it ironic that most people are more willing to eat fish raw than other meats.
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Just find well raised sources of chicken and pork and try them both. Eat whatever meat you are craving like I do. My staple is meat but when I crave chicken or pork I eat those as well. Its good to try more things so your body knows whats in those foods for when you are deficient in whatever that particular food contains.
Iv been eating fish a lot less these days since it jsut doesnt satisfy my hunger at all these days. It just feels so light in my stomach now that iv been working out. Before I had times when I ate only fish and no other meat for up to a week at a time.
just dont overthink it. Your body will tell you what you should eat at the time. you should listen.
you will become more in tune with your bodies needs the longer you eat only raw foods.
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and people need to stop worrying about parasites in my opinion.
just trust nature.
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Re: Advantages to chicken, pork, fish...Anyone?
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2013, 06:21:45 AM »
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Just find well raised sources of chicken and pork and try them both. Eat whatever meat you are craving like I do. My staple is meat but when I crave chicken or pork I eat those as well. Its good to try more things so your body knows whats in those foods for when you are deficient in whatever that particular food contains.
REPLY:
I have enjoyed eating raw chicken and raw pork quite a bit fairly recently and am getting a terrific craving for raw pork at the moment, which is almost uncontrollable. I really don't know how to manage without it? I am sure if I do go back to it I will then want to return to the raw chicken which I also love? Perhaps I have just been spoiled!
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I do eat chicken and fish raw, along with raw beef. I usually eat chicken or fish at lunch, and beef at dinner. I only eat frozen chicken, due to the high chance of parasites infection. The reason I eat chicken is because I want balance the red (higher cholesterol) and white meat. I found that chicken is more tender to chaw, and if the chicken is young, it taste very good as well.
I do not want to try pork yet, because the chance they are fed with various additives are high.
My tendency is to stick with beef in all its forms. I am thinking about trying chicken or pork raw. Can anyone tell me about different benefits they have had on chicken and pork or fish versus just beef? While I find any form of beef totally appealing in the raw, the thought of raw chicken grosses me out. Raw pork seems even more unappealing. But I am wondering if this would add to my overall health and perhaps chicken and pork are more appealing when not cooked.
I am writing this, too, b/c I do have those fears about "worms" from pork or weird stuff from raw fish. But this doesn't really match with everything else b/c I am not a frequent hand washer, never worry about "catching" germs, and am not concerned in the slightest about eating raw meat. Hopefully, listening to some of you can allay this.
What has been your experience with chicken, fish, or pork in raw form? I wonder if I would like it better b/c chicken is not very appealing to me, nor is pork. And fish, of course, I have eaten raw, but for some reason, the past two times I have had sashimi, I felt like I was going to throw up later that night. And this is unusual for me b/c I can eat REALLY old meat and never feel sick.
I am very inspired reading on this site. I did raw foods for several years, then went back to regular eating, and am on close to ZC now. I am finding that raw feels so much lighter, and I need much less to feel satisfied. This is a great thing!
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So far I haven't found an animal, bird etc. I don't prefer to eat raw.... I think the advantage to eating smaller critters like chicken, fish, rabbit etc. is the price. They are often much cheaper and can make my beef and pork go further. The advantage to pork itself imo is they are a great source of some amazing tasting fat. (and lots of it)
The funny thing about this whole parasite thing is the only person I know that got worms was my son and that was on a average Canadian Diet not from eating raw meat.
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Delighted to hear you prefer all kinds of meat, poultry and fish raw to cooked. Seeing some of the burnt offerings others are forced to endure you feel you are a member of an enlightened and privileged culture. Pleased too you are not influenced by all the scaremongering so free to enjoy the full range of meats available including raw chicken and raw pork, both of which I find delicious. I wondered if you have tried any of the rotten meats and fish as these have a stronger flavor which is very pleasant? I find the more adventurous your tastes the more rewarding is the experience!
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I just started with the high meat thing not too long ago but it is actually very amazing and rewarding as you said... lol.. its true the more adventurous the better. Each time I'm aging things longer and longer and always eager to try new things. I just finished some high duck meat that was pretty amazing! I got high chicken on the go now and just started some beef today.
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Never thought of trying high duck meat before, but it could make it more tender and soften the stringy bits! Have tried high chicken and liked that, also high beef. Main interest is high fish, like the Inuit, which has a lovely cheesy texture. Definitely improves the longer you keep it. I keep my high items at room temperature so they go off more quickly and add previously rotted meat to encourage it to go off, and it cannot get too rotten to eat, but you can only wait sooooo long to try it! I leave open top jam jars in the garage at slightly lower temperatures in there with meat or fish lying in the bottom. Provided it does not dry out too quickly and keeps moist it should go off quite well. Interested to hear of your other experiments?
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Read Aajonus' newsletter archives. He studied mercury and fish eating. You'll have answers there. Did your carber friend eat their carbs cooked? How about their muscle meats? Fats?
I eat raw chicken, raw duck and raw pork. I ate raw pork tonight, not uncommon for me. I bought raw chicken yesterday to eat today. I used to eat more raw chicken. I liked it better. I eat more raw pork at the moment. I like that better. When I first started I ate more raw fish for my meat. I liked that. I have not liked raw beef yet. I do like raw buffalo. I do not like raw deer.
Raw "white" meats help calm. Raw red meats give you iron. Raw fish can help your nervous system and glands. That journal sounds like an excellent way to learn and teach.
I think this is excellent and I really appreciate it!
Thanks for posting the original thread! I have been wanting to ask the same questions, just havent gotten around to it yet. This is great!!! Thanks everyone for your incredible input!
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Huge tape worms coming out of pigs faces?! Yuck!!! -v -v -v -v -v -v
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I find that most fish is too bland and light, and I don't enjoy the texture much. I have the same problem with skinless chicken breast. However, if I marinate these meats in lemon juice, they become really tasty. The fish usually turns softer and mushier, but very tasty, and the chicken breast turns firm for some reason, and has a much chewier texture that I really like. Plus the taste improves a lot.
Fish eyes are pretty tasty however, and sometimes are amazing. They seem to be better and sweeter when the fish is very fresh, they even taste almost like fatty berries sometimes. Fish organs are disgusting, they're one of the most bitter things in the world.
Chicken legs/thighs, the organs and the bone marrow I really enjoy as is. I haven't had conventional chicken yet, and I don't think I will. But some people claim to like it.
Most cuts of pork are really tasty too, especially if it's organic.
From beef I've only had conventional grain finished. The lean meats are tasty (though not ask much as organic pork or organic chicken), but the fat is usually pretty disgusting. Some of the fat will be okay sometimes, but most will be almost inedible in my opinion. By contrast, pork fat is pretty tasty, and it will only taste bad if it's from conventional pork, and then again only some of it will taste bad, maybe like 50%. Or it will only start tasting bad after you had more than a little.
Rabbit isn't bad, but it's too lean. Rabbit brain is pretty good, but you only get a tiny amount of it per rabbit. I haven't noticed a lot of difference between conventional and organic rabbit. They were probably both fed the same all-grain diet. It tastes almost identical to chicken, minus most of the fat. And the meat is a bit more firm.
Conventional goat I don't particularly enjoy, but it's edible.
Conventional lamb is pretty good.
Oysters can either be a mouth watering gift from the gods, or really yucky things that you eat only because you spent so much money on them. It's hard to get the good ones. I'd say I only get good ones about 20% of the time I buy them.
Squid is amazing. Well, most of it is. The tentacles, mouth and eyes are. The "body" is only good if you remove the skin, otherwise it tastes pretty bad. Oh and the organs are as bad as fish organs.
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And fish, of course, I have eaten raw, but for some reason, the past two times I have had sashimi, I felt like I was going to throw up later that night. And this is unusual for me b/c I can eat REALLY old meat and never feel sick.
Did you have it from a sushi place? And was it pink salmon? Because most pink salmon is farmed, and even wild pink salmon might be genetically contaminated by escaped GMO salmon from farmed operations.
Did you have the sashimi with the usual soy sauce and fake wasabi? Because it could also have been that that made you ill.
I haven't had wild pink salmon, but I used to be a big fan of cooked farmed pink salmon, and then later of farmed pink salmon sashimi, until I stopped adding the soy sauce and wasabi, and tasted it raw on its own, and realized that it didn't taste good at all.
In either case, not all meats are for everybody. Some people swear by fish and will eat an almost entirely fish based diet if they can get enough fresh fish. Others like me find that fish doesn't satisfy us much. And then again our tastes do change and from time to time a fish eater might want some red meat, or a red meat eater may want only fish for a while.
In my experience, women tend to prefer fish more often than men, while men tend to prefer red meat more often than women. But it's not always like that.