Hey Hey. Putting this into full swing.

[revision]

Hey all. Thought I'd register and introduce myself -- I've been lurking for about a month.

A little about myself -- I've drastically changed my lifestyle over the past 5 years or so. When I was 20 I weighed 350+ lbs for eating SAD, except probably even worse. TONS of fast food; you name it, I inhaled it. A lot of this had to do with emotional eating/filling voids in my life, and also had to do with moving to Montana from California. I never knew how much lack of sunlight actually affected me, it made me even more depressed than I already was. I returned to California, started seeing a dietician, started to be active (walking, hiking, yoga were the primaries), and cut down to about 165. I eventually had to start eating more and have fluctuated between 165-175 since, depending on my activity level. For the two years I was losing weight I was vegetarian, and had stints of trying to be vegan. I felt great for the first 1.5 years, then started to become constantly lethargic, tired all the time, cranky, and unable to think well. I started adding meats back into my diet and began to feel better immediately. It was when I added red meat a few months later that I really began to feel better, and pretty much ate only red meat when I ate meat. Since then my health had fluctuated greatly. While I don't have any major diseases or disorders, I still have fluctuating levels of feeling lethargic and completely drained. When this happens, I become majorly depressed again. I've become interested in this way of eating from my own experiences (such as simply adding meat back to my diet), and my passion for nutrition and helping others, and also from meeting a teacher at the yoga studio I where I work who follows the Aajonous (Primal) diet. He convinced me to try adding raw proteins and fats to my diet a few years ago, and since doing so I've continued to feel better. I tried a few weeks ago following raw paleo for a few days and felt great at first, then started having major cravings for sugar and starch. For a week I forged myself on sugar/starch, and then felt like crap. Also when eating cooked meat, it just seemed to lack flavor or even be 'good.' So I'm back sticking with it. As I write this, it is my third day sticking with it again -- I've been doing some liver cleansing things (herbs, coffee enema, did the egg liver flush this morning) and actually feel very well. When I went hiking this morning I felt like I could keep hiking forever!

I'm not following the Primal diet since I don't function well with milk (although significantly better with raw vs. pasteurized), though I am eating raw butter since I think it's the lactose/protein I have difficulty with. Sorta my own variation I guess, some lower sugar fruit (mostly apples/lemons), raw beef, raw eggs, raw butter, veggie juices, olive/coconut oil, chia seed, and raw veggies. Probably will include some raw fish too since I love ceviche.

So that's that. I hope to contribute to this forum and learn a lot too!

[TylerDurden]

Welcome to the forum!

I trust the raw beef is 100% grassfed?

Given that you still have some issues, I would suggest cutting out the raw butter  completely(people who've assured me that they did fine on just one type of raw dairy but not on other types  have often, years later, admitted to me that  consumption of those other types of raw dairy also eventually led to some other extra minor health-problems, it's just that they took longer to appear. Nothing worse than a slow-acting allergy like what I had towards dairy years ago, incidentally. I would far rather have had an allergy where I broke out in spots or worse, as that would have been fair warning.

Other options could include dumping the raw veggie-juice or processed stuff like  raw olive oil/raw coconut oil,  or the chia seeds. Seeds, imo, aren't  unless perhaps sprouted, due to possessing enzyme-blockers and other antinutrients.

Mind you, we all have our different interpretations. SkinnyDevil does fine on a diet much higher in raw plant foods than raw animal foods, while Lex Rooker eats an all-animal food(mostly raw)  diet etc. At any rate, experiment further, perhaps doing elimination diets to see which foods are bothering you, and constantly adding other  types of raw foods to see if they work better etc.

[LePatron7]

Welcome aboard!

I tried a few weeks ago following raw paleo for a few days and felt great at first, then started having major cravings for sugar and starch. For a week I forged myself on sugar/starch, and then felt like crap

That's normal. When you first eliminate the hard to digest foods - cooked meat, starches, etc. Your gut microbes are starved for nutrition. Those hard to digest foods over feed bacteria in the gut, so when you starve them they send strong signals to the brain to eat the foods that feed them.

Stick to it though, in no time those cravings will go away.

[revision]

@Tyler: Regarding dairy, that's probably true. I've found by reducing other dairy in my diet my energy has increased quite a bit, and especially since butter still has trace amounts of lactose/protein, it would stand to reason it could have some effect. For now I'm going to stick with it until I use what I have and find another source of fat to add to my diet. It's currently the easiest to locate, thought admittedly I've yet to search for tallow, etc. I understand the perspectives with the oils, and I understand the rationale behind juices is actually the same, but I'm not too keen on giving up the juices (again, once I find another source of fat I'd be up for experimenting without the oils), but the juices make me feel so good. I've found that especially since adding a source of fat (eggs/olive oil mainly) to the juice, that my body just seems to react very well to it... nourished I guess?

Thoughts on coconut butter vs. coconut oil? I prefer coconut butter to oil, I just happen to have oil currently.

Beef is grassfed/finished, eggs and butter are as pastured/high quality as possible.

@DaBoss: I figured this the case. I tried cooked paleo before, and this is also what happened. I just feel too lethargic eating decent quantities of cooked meat, and also can feel/hear my joints starting to click. Additionally, this is what happened when cutting gluten from my diet. That's why I'm giving it another go and also including the liver cleansing to ensure fats are being digested properly. Probably will be making some kimchi soon to ensure probiotics are up to par. So far so good!

[LePatron7]

It's currently the easiest to locate, thought admittedly I've yet to search for tallow, etc.

I think tallow is the cooked version of suet/raw beef fat. Raw beef fat from grass fed cows, lamb, etc is an excellent product for getting high quality animal fats. Definitely look into that when ever you get the chance.

It's tough doing raw paleo without a good source of raw animal fats.

Probably will be making some kimchi soon to ensure probiotics are up to par.

You'll also, just from eating your meats raw, be getting a lot of bacteria from the raw animal foods. Eventually you could try high meat. It's meat that's been aged at room temperature for a few weeks to several months.

Aajonous actually ages it for over a year some times, which imho must be really hard to eat. It must taste awful!

ripleys believe it or not - "Rotten Meat"

Thoughts on coconut butter vs. coconut oil? I prefer coconut butter to oil, I just happen to have oil currently.

Some people have a hard time tolerating any oils, but if you do alright with coconut oil I don't see any reason to discontinue it. It's good to have variety in the fats you consume.

[TylerDurden]

The argument versus oils is not the same as the one versus veggie juices. The oils issue is obvious, in that some people are negatively affected by even slight processing(I get diarrhea if I drink raw olive oil in more than a teaspoonful, for example), plus there is the issue of harsh chemicals being added to the oils etc.(I got nasty stomach-aches from eating raw coconut oil, but PP, I think, stated that centrifuged raw coconut oil was far better than what I had bought).

The argument versus raw veggie juices is that shredding the cell-walls via juicing makes not only the nutrients in the veg more bioavailable, but also the antinutrients in the veg as well:-

http://www.13.waisays.com/plants.htm

At any rate,  some primal dieters complained after consuming lots of raw veggie juice. I think the limit is no more than one glass a day, above which it(s not safe to go(not sure at all  what "one glass" is as a measurement, given different sizes of glasses).

Re coconut butter/oil:- Just choose whichever is least processed.

re fat sources:- I found raw tongue easiest to get hold of. Raw marrow is a delight but difficult to get hold of, and you have to stress that it's for human consumption, not for dogs as otherwise they give you bones with hardly any marrow in them. Raw suet is fine for some. Don't buy tallow as that's rendered fat.

When unable to get hold of raw organs, I've often stuck to raw leg of lamb/mutton which is very fatty.

[LePatron7]

When unable to get hold of raw organs, I've often stuck to raw leg of lamb/mutton which is very fatty.

Is mutton any good? What exactly is it? My farmer sells mutton cheaper than lamb, I really like lamb. Is mutton the same thing but a little older?

[Polyvore]

Mutton is simply old lamb.. it is meant to have more sinew and tougher meat, but also taste gamier.

[TylerDurden]

Yes. Mutton is often difficult to get hold of, at least in the UK, as people find it too tough. I disagree.