Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: zeno on May 27, 2011, 10:40:23 pm
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Over the past few days I have lost my appetite completely. I have decided to stop eating as of today and fast until I regain my appetite again. For the past few days I persistently ate even small amounts of food (raw fruit, meat, and honey) regardless of my lack of appetite out of confusion and fear.
I have experience fasting in the past, but this would be the first time my body has expressed a will to fast; beyond my control my body is not interested in any forms of food. Sometimes I yearn for something but it is not hunger for food and small amounts of water usually quell this desire.
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My daily diet since I began eating raw meat has been:
Consistent
1 piece of fruit (apple, kiwi, apricot, etc.)
raw fat
raw muscle meat
water
raw honey
raw egg yolk
raw, bio-active protein powder (One World Whey)
Inconsistent
lemon juice
sprouted nuts and seeds (almonds, sunflower seeds, chia seeds)
some leafy vegetables
raw garlic
raw avocado
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Hypotheses:
Ketosis
Since I began a RAF diet, I would tend to gorge myself on fat which led me to wonder if I have unknowingly induced ketosis? Can anyone confirm whether or not ketosis is characterized by a complete lack of appetite?
Garlic
For the past week I have been eating 2 cloves of raw garlic every day to see if this would cause a reaction among the parasites I harbor. This may seem bizarre but, the only hypothesis I can think of which is related to parasites and the increased intake of garlic would be that my loss of appetite may be controlled by parasites. This seems unlikely but perhaps parasites reacted to the increase intake of garlic by somehow shutting down my appetite in order to stop me from continuing to eat garlic.
Intense Cleansing
Perhaps the loss of appetite is a sign of detoxification?
I'm at loss as to what to do. I want to eat but there is no way I can bring myself to eat. My low energy levels are bothering me but I feel as if I have to be patient and wait for my appetite to naturally return.
Any comments or insight would be greatly appreciated! -\
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Yeah, I had this problem in the beginning too. I think it had something to do with the fact that I never had eaten so much meat regularly in my life.
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And how did you react/solve the problem?
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Lack of digestive enzymes from a congested bile duct/gallbladder/liver was the problem. I'm doing liver flushes and taking herbal bile thinners. It has been working for me.
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Have you thought that you're maybe eating more calories than you actually need? I mean fat, meat, yolks, that's some quite calorie-dense food, it may seem like you're eating a little but it's actually a lot. Measure and check how much calories you have per day (if you haven't already).
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I can understand your concern, but before my appetite was completely lost I was eating a small amount of food:
1 raw egg yolk
1 piece of fruit
water
maybe a cup's worth of raw fat (less than 1 lb)
a cup of raw muscle/organ meat (less than 1lb)
I was eating nowhere near the amounts that are regularly reported here (2 lbs of raw muscle meat and 1 lb of raw fat). In light of this, I would argue it isn't the amount of food that I was eating that caused the loss of appetite. Because my weight is still low for my height (I'm 5'11" tall and weigh less than 150 lbs), I believe I was eating a small amount of food.
But then again, for my size, I could have been eating too much. From my observations, it didn't seem like I was.
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So 1 lb of fat (if it is 100% fat) is 450grams * 9 calories = ~4000 calories.
Do you seriously need that many calories per day (from fat)? I wouldn't think so, given your weight is 68kg. This is exactly how much I weigh too and I eat 2000-2500 calories per day. Now, I'm not that active, but I wouldn't think you're that active either if fat makes such a big percent of your calories.
Furthermore, are you sure you're getting enough vitamins and minerals in your diet? Somehow I don't think that raw fat is so abundant in micronutrients.
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Are you sure you're getting enough vitamins and minerals in your diet? Somehow I don't think that raw fat is so abundant in micronutrients.
What do you recommend to ensure adequate vitamin and mineral intake? I try to eat organ meats as much as possible.
So 1 lb of fat (if it is 100% fat) is 450grams * 9 calories = ~4000 calories.
Do you seriously need that many calories per day (from fat)? I wouldn't think so, given your weight is 68kg. This is exactly how much I weigh too and I eat 2000-2500 calories per day. Now, I'm not that active, but I wouldn't think you're that active either if fat makes such a big percent of your calories.
I didn't state that I was eating one pound, but about one cup of fat.
Diagnosis
I don't know what was wrong with me but I got into a weird mental slump and convinced myself I wasn't hungry. However, I think part of the problem was that I was eating too much indigestible fat; all I had was this chalky fat that seemed to clog up my digestion, which in turn slowed my bowel movements and then affected my mental and physical state.
Other changes I've made to my diet:
1. Returned to eating smaller meals rather than one huge midday meal
2. Cut the amount of daily sugars and carbs (in the form of fruits and honey)
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Loss of hunger is natural.
It happens.
Your body knows.
Listen well and learn from your body.
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At 5'11" 150lbs is quite low... You might want to do some heavy exercise. This triggers hunger. It also increases your active mass (all tissues other than fat). More active mass requires more cals thus will trigger additional hunger. Diet higher in cals are also higher in micronutrients, that is if the make up of the diet doen't change.
You might want to drink some kefir or eat liver to up your B-vitamin intake. Low levels of b-vitamins cause loss of appetite since your body needs those vits to proces the food you eat.
Drinking a very strong herbal tea made from mint and rosemary is an appetite booster.
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Are you sick of something?
You may want to tell us if you are sick of something and using raw paleo diet to cure your disease.
It's different that way.
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Go on few days juice fasting then introduce eggs fish meat to your diet again try white meat I had something like that in the past
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Are you sick of something?
You may want to tell us if you are sick of something and using raw paleo diet to cure your disease.
It's different that way.
As far as I know, I'm sick of nothing besides some of the usual culprits produced from a poor diet in the past.
Go on few days juice fasting then introduce eggs fish meat to your diet again try white meat I had something like that in the past
I may experiment with intermittent fasting in the future, but for now I prefer to build up a healthy foundation before I begin fasting. Thank you for the tip, though.
I suppose that rather than making a plan I should just listen to my body more carefully in the future. If I'm hungry, then eat; if not, then don't eat! The only problem is it's too simple for a modern person to understand or appreciate! :P
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What colour is the top of your tongue?
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My tongue is usually a light colored pink or red, and the top is generally white. It seems as if covered by a film that is concentrated near the rear of my tongue.
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I just wrote up a reply and then lost it l) Here we go again ;D
It is a bit difficult to diagnose when you are separated by a computer however...
Ayurveda says that a white coating on your tongue indicates undigested food (ama) is in your system. You can scrape your tongue with a tongue scraper or an upside down spoon but don't tear you tongue off ;D I suggest this first thing in the morning for anyone.
Think of your digestion as being a fire (a chemical reaction after all is simply a slow fire) If you throw too much food, especially heavy food like fat on the fire it will tend to extinguish it, thus it will not digest and end up going further down to the intestines where some of it may be absorbed and show up as Ama in the system.
@ 5'11" & 150 pounds you are probably some variety of vata. Typically vatas do better with a number of small meals rather than 3 biggies. Monomeals are probably a bit better.
1 cup of fat sounds a bit much if eaten all at once particularly.
As you and others have suggested let your taste buds be your guide, eat slowly and pay attention so that you do not override the stop signal that your body gives out.
Vatas tend to do better with light exercise although it doesn't stop me, but I don't like really heavy stuff. However be sure to take a 10 to 20 minute walk after you eat a meal.
If your appetite still isn't working and you are not under pressure (stress) then try this:
Take a pinch of salt,
pinch of fresh ginger ground up,
few drops of fresh lemon juice,
mix them together,
Chew it up,
wait a half a minute and
then eat.
That will get your digestion off to a roaring start.
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One other thing is that the position of the discolouration on the tongue is also an indicator of where in the body that the ama is located. I loaned out my reference book "Ayurveda The Science Of Self Healing" by Dr Vasant Lad or I would find out exactly the position. However it's more important to get to the cause (low digestive fire) than to worry over details.
There are other sites in your body, including the pulse that can tell you same thing.
Other colours of the tongue such as yellow, deep red, brown are also indicators of things gone awry.
One other thing, are you constipated?
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I've attached a photo of my tongue. My tongue has been this way for quite some time and I've done various things to try to solve the digestion issues but without much consistency or good results.
Yes: I would say I experience both indigestion and am constipated. Before eating raw meat, my constipation was much worse. Raw meats has helped a bit with my indigestion but results have not been consistently good. Because I eat one large meal of meat in the morning, I will have one large bowel movement per day.
I have noticed that I crave fat; I love the flavor and texture. This is perhaps due to my stint with veganism that crippled my stores and intake of fat. However, I have the tendency to overeat fat at times and then my digestion feels extinguished (without the necessary fire to process food).
Lean meat, on the other hand, seems to travel through my system fairly well; I have gotten better digestion and bowel movements when eating predominantly lean red meat or fish.
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I've tried fasting as a means to allow my digestion to "cool down", but it seems that the bacteria of my gut must be near extinction. Even resting my gut didn't seem to help much in the past.
I recently purchased a probiotic and will begin taking capsules today.
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if you suspect low gut flora i would strongly recommend raw milk kefir. Much stronger probioic than those dry powder capsules. I have a history of constipation but havent had any since starting kefir.
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The kefir suggestion is a great idea. You can make your own which is much better. Just put a teaspoon or two of raw honey in the raw milk, shake it to mix it in and put it on top of the refrigerator overnight. In the summer there will be enough heat to work it. The honey flavour is just a bonus plus the bacteria is perfect to make the kefir.
Try high meat also.
Your tongue is in very good shape on the outer portion with ama on the inner portion. Just guessing but if my memory serves me that means ama is on the last part of the GI Tract, the vata section. Overall it's not that unusual BTW.
Your intestines and downstream are the vata portions of the body, so if you are prone to have issues there it may bring on anxiety, indigestion, constipation, diarrhoea, nervous energy,
Fat is good for you, just eat is slower, and less at each meal, maybe try another type of animal fat or butter.
Raw meat diets are especially good for vata types because the meat is the opposite of vata in taste and texture. Being a vegan would not be great for you and being a raw vegan would be disastrous.
Fasting helps to burn up residues left behind with incomplete digestion.
Try the recipe I gave you re the ginger salt and lemon. It is like throwing barbecue starter fluid on your gut. Sour/salty/pungent gets the fire going.
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Alright, tomorrow morning I will try your recommendation before eating.
I have access to raw honey and kefir grains where I am, but not raw milk. I shall continue taking the probiotic supplements I purchased.
Thank you for all your recommendations! :D
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I shall continue taking the probiotic supplements I purchased.
If this works for you, I would be interested to know what you're taking. I've tried a couple, but they made me bloated so I stopped after couple of days. I've just been eating really aged meat to try to help my flora.
The kefir suggestion is a great idea. You can make your own which is much better. Just put a teaspoon or two of raw honey in the raw milk, shake it to mix it in and put it on top of the refrigerator overnight. In the summer there will be enough heat to work it. The honey flavour is just a bonus plus the bacteria is perfect to make the kefir.
can you explain this again?.... 1-2 tsp honey in raw milk left outside fridge = kefir? do you mean with kefir grains too? and how long?
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i forgot to add.. the more organ meats i eat, the less appetite i have for the next few days. do you eat a lot organ meat?
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can you explain this again?.... 1-2 tsp honey in raw milk left outside fridge = kefir? do you mean with kefir grains too? and how long?
The recipe is that simple. Just honey and milk. By the morning the honey has dissolved and you have a delicately sweetened kefir. You could also use pasteurized milk although I've never tried. I got the idea from Aajonus. He says there are bacteria in the honey that make it turn but other bacteria that prevent it from going weird.
Overnight works for us in the summer, but in the winter with the cooler house temperature it takes a day or two. The refrigerator has cooling coils on the back of it (not paleo) to transfer the heat out of the fridge. This heat flows uphill and you just arrange the Mason jar or whatever to take advantage of it.
When we made yogurt we used to heat the milk to boiling cool to 46 degrees C add the yogurt then put a towel around it and put it over the fridge. Works like a charm.
Kefir grains are another method, with an added degree of complication. However some like that.
You can also get kefir bacteria from one of the suppliers at a health food store. That is an expensive option I tried.
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The recipe is that simple. Just honey and milk.
nice. did you ever try this with cream or butter?
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If this works for you, I would be interested to know what you're taking.
I have taken LB-17 with decent results and now I am taking Floraderm.
I've heard from others that when taking Floraderm, you can feel it working. Today, I've taken 3 capsules and I do feel a bit of heat and churning once I take the pills. Hopefully this is a good sign.
As for LB-17: when I began taking LB-17 I also began eating raw meat shortly thereafter. So, its difficulty to discern the effect of LB-17.
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i tried the milk honey thing. it does produce a kefir like drink. However imho ist nowhere close to real homemade kefir using kefir grains. the grains are an incredible symbiosis of 30-50 different bacteria and yeasts. there are very few bacteria that can suvive in honey because its such a concentrated fluid. thats why honey doesn't spoil. some can off course and they can b used to make mead or ferment milk. this doesn't give you the amazing advantages of a truly symbiotic bacteria/yeast culture found in kefir grains. don't be afraid of the yeasts they actually rival the bad yeast (candida)in your gut. I liked the milk honey drink and it is definetly a fermented product but it is not as potend as grain made kefir. you can use pasteurised milk and grains.
you can also eat the grains themselve. they are the most concentrated probiotic you wil find. plus added anti cancer kefiran. I eat grains regurlarly they double every week or so. nothing has ever done more for my hut flora.
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Alright, tomorrow morning I will try your recommendation before eating.
I have access to raw honey and kefir grains where I am, but not raw milk. I shall continue taking the probiotic supplements I purchased.
Thank you for all your recommendations! :D
I forgot to mention one more thing. It's actually a very good solution. Pardon the pun
I would try 1 to 1.5 teaspoons of castor oil either in the early morning or in the evening before bed. Since it is so disgusting to most people, I suggest holding your nose, swallowing quickly and then chasing it with some juice or whatever, a muffin works well.
This amount of castor will work very gently and will clean out your lower end of ........ crap. You can do this as many days as you like. Once your tongue is cleared up, it is not necessary. It's not a problem to do it periodically with this low dosage and it won't cause the legendary castor dash to the can, explosive downpour. It is cheap as dirt at Indian grocery stores or you can get it at pharmacies or health food stores.
A wee story. My ex never got hungry. She always looked at food as a necessary evil. Her mother (was wonderful) fed her hamburgers and potatoes every day of her childhood, (yuck) no variety along with other SAD items. Her tongues was/is consequently disgustingly white and frothy.
When I got her to try the castor (blaster), ;D I had her try a larger dose. Anyhoo she spent hours on the great white telephone and had to flush it a few times. It was amazing what quantity came out. After a couple of days of this her hunger got so strong that she suddenly had no patience for me dawdling to the dinner table. It was quite humorous actually.
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nice. did you ever try this with cream or butter?
I haven't tried it with cream from the point of view of fermenting it but cream/butter/honey mixed together are very likely what the Gods eat. It is definitely manna from the heavens. ;D
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i tried the milk honey thing. it does produce a kefir like drink. However imho ist nowhere close to real homemade kefir using kefir grains. the grains are an incredible symbiosis of 30-50 different bacteria and yeasts. there are very few bacteria that can suvive in honey because its such a concentrated fluid. thats why honey doesn't spoil. some can off course and they can b used to make mead or ferment milk. this doesn't give you the amazing advantages of a truly symbiotic bacteria/yeast culture found in kefir grains. don't be afraid of the yeasts they actually rival the bad yeast (candida)in your gut. I liked the milk honey drink and it is definetly a fermented product but it is not as potend as grain made kefir. you can use pasteurised milk and grains.
you can also eat the grains themselve. they are the most concentrated probiotic you wil find. plus added anti cancer kefiran. I eat grains regurlarly they double every week or so. nothing has ever done more for my hut flora.
I've had a similar discussion on another thread but you are the first to mention that the grains give a stronger result. Interesting. I find kefir a bit strong anyways and can only eat it one day or maybe two days or else I get upset stomach. Typically we make it when our raw milk has been in the fridge too long and it is starting to taste off a bit.
That's why I gave away my grains. We only had the kefir occasionally and so it just kind of rotted on the fridge from neglect. It still worked of course.
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they are the most concentrated probiotic you wil find.
You can eat the grains and this will have a positive effect on the stomach? Hmmm... I will try snacking on some kefir grains today.
I'll keep kefir grains in mind in the future when I come across a source of raw milk. Ideally I think everyone should be eating fermented foods to assist replenish the bacteria in the gut. The only problem for me is finding a consistent source of such a food. I'll have to put more thought and energy into ensuring that, along with high meat, I find ample sources of raw, fermented foods.
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You can eat the grains and this will have a positive effect on the stomach? Hmmm... I will try snacking on some kefir grains today.
I'll keep kefir grains in mind in the future when I come across a source of raw milk. Ideally I think everyone should be eating fermented foods to assist replenish the bacteria in the gut. The only problem for me is finding a consistent source of such a food. I'll have to put more thought and energy into ensuring that, along with high meat, I find ample sources of raw, fermented foods.
You can also make kefir from pasteurized milk. Better than nothing.
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Last night I cleaned my tongue for the first time. The only reason why I haven't done it in the past was because I was under the impression a fancy tongue scraper was necessary to clean the tongue. I will be sure to continue to clean it every morning.
Before breakfast I ate the appetite stimulating mixture and had a somewhat smaller meal of solely raw meat. After eating, I also ingested a probiotic. Lastly, I sucked and chewed on some raw honey comb.
I'll continue using the appetite stimulating mixture before eating and taking a probiotic afterwards.
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Sounds good. Just one thing occurred to me. If you start to get mouth ulcers, a sore throat or sore teeth discontinue the mixture. Also if your appetite returns to normal you can discontinue it. In fact you may find that you would modify it to suit your taste.
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you could make water kefir as a staple fermented drink. i drink both water and miklk kefir. also occasionlly some mead. i also sometime ferment veg juice. just spinach&parsley juice some lemo juice an raw honey. ferment very quickly like 8 hrs
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Last week I began zapping using a Hulda Clark zapper and on the same day began taking probiotics. Since beginning both, my lungs have cleared and opened significantly. Breathing is much easier; taking deep breaths feels more natural.
Also, I have been digesting fat and red meat much better! Before I could only eat a certain amount of food before beginning to belch and then would sometimes regurgitate undigested food and stomach acid. It seemed as though my stomach couldn't physically handle the amount of food I ingested and would reject it.
Now, I can eat much more food and digest much more comfortably. This has allowed me to understand when I am truly full or when I am just stuffed with too much food and not enough digestive 'fire' (or friendly bacteria in my opinion).
As for what measure is causing what, I can't be sure though my instincts tell me that zapping has helped somewhat with the clearing of my respiration. The probiotics seemed to have been the agent in aiding my digestion. After eating a hardy meal of fat and red meat to my content, I'm sure to take one capsule to help with the digestion.
In the future, I would like to experiment with kefir grains and raw milk.
Ioanna, if you would like more information please don't hesitate to ask.
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I made the switch to full raw (minus a cooked meal here and there) about three weeks ago and have noticed my appetite is about 1/2 of what it was before. Literally about 1/2, I now on raw only consume about 2200cals/day, prior on cooked I was 4000-5000/day. Fairly active over here :D
Which leads me to think that the cooking process destroys 1/2 the nutriants in the food, making you eat 50% less. Just a thought.
I also notice I'm more energetic now, and am actually more active now.
Matt
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Good for you Matt!
I just wanted to add something about the ferments discussion. There are many different ways to get good bacteria. There are many ways to ferment milk using different bacteria, there is kefir that can be used to ferment different things - even water and coconut water (using different cultures). Sometimes anything fermented is called "kefir" which isn't exactly accurate. There are ways to ferment vegetables and meat and honey and grains and then there is kombucha which like kefir is a symbiotic culture. Fermentation is an art form that I am trying to become proficient in because I love ferments. They just taste and feel wonderful to my body.
What I have found is that I like different ones at different times and some never. Different people take to different ferments. I always assumed that we are attracted to the one that has the bacterias in it that we most need.
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Ioanna, if you would like more information please don't hesitate to ask.
yes please :)
i pm'd you back when you posted this, but in re-reading this i am just now remembering. not sure you got it?
hey dorothy... i pm'd you too ;)
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I made the switch to full raw (minus a cooked meal here and there) about three weeks ago and have noticed my appetite is about 1/2 of what it was before. Literally about 1/2, I now on raw only consume about 2200cals/day, prior on cooked I was 4000-5000/day. Fairly active over here :D
Which leads me to think that the cooking process destroys 1/2 the nutriants in the food, making you eat 50% less. Just a thought.
I also notice I'm more energetic now, and am actually more active now.
Matt
The reduced need for food has been our experience also. When visiting relatives, I feel hungry often.
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You can also make kefir from pasteurized milk. Better than nothing.
Al - I'm afraid that I disagree with you on this. I personally think it is better to make water or coconut milk kefir or kombucha or just about any other option for fermenting rather than pasteurized, homogenized, hormonized, antibioticized, de-natured milk from cows fed grains. Milk is a fabulous food when it's natural form and can be so very bad for a body when it is destroyed in this way. I think that raw grass-fed milk is to regular milk from the store what fresh berries picked from the wild are to twinkies. I'd take a stabilized for room temperature pill form of probiotic before using pasteurized milk to ferment with. Just my opinion from how my body reacts to the two different substances.
I say if you take whatever you have that is raised properly and ferment it - you will be better off. If you have good organic beets or cabbage or cucumbers etc. - use them. If you have un-heated hand packed honey, use that. If you have a great meat source use that. If you have someone who can share with you a kombucha scoby then use tea. You can use ginger, grapes, fruit - just put a cloth on top to let the alcohol release. Fermented vinegars can be some of the best ferments that help to break down foods that are difficult to digest beautifully. If you have great naturally raised eggs - ferment them. Those are supposed to be a real delicacy and when I finally have more eggs than I eat every day I will be excited to try it. If all you have is water - get water kefir grains. Even fermented grains are better than pasteurized milk imho. I'd drink a beer from a local brewery or home made with the yeast still in it before fermented pasteurized milk any day.
The only reason you would ever use pasteurized milk is if you had cancer, couldn't get raw, and needed the sulfured milk (cottage cheese) in order to get fats to by-pass your liver. But even then...... I would choose other ways to help the liver to digest the fats instead of challenging the liver to get rid of the toxins in the bastardized milk product. The sulfur in fermented raw milk however can make fats water-soluble and get them right past the liver into the cells and is one of the best cancer remedies ever discovered - by Johanna Budwig - super genius. If you have a liver that is up to par you don't need that.... but it's good to know.
Things that I cannot eat otherwise seem to be just fine if not really good for me otherwise. So, if honey, milk, cruciferous vegetables etc. etc. usually don't digest well - don't let that scare you away from trying them fermented.
Ok, that's my little "Song of the Ferment". ;)
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yes please :)
i pm'd you back when you posted this, but in re-reading this i am just now remembering. not sure you got it?
hey dorothy... i pm'd you too ;)
loanna - I did not get your pm.