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Liver in excess flares my Candida up so there's mo way I could make a natural sweetener part of my regular diet.
man, you're quite sensitive to carbs! I haven't looked up how much carbs other offals have, do you get flare ups from any other organs?I haven't noticed issues with any other organs.
Given that bees don't live in cold climates and how rare sweetness is in the wild, there's no way sweet is required to achieve perfect health.It gets to below 0 degrees F out here and theres plenty of bees.
man, you're quite sensitive to carbs! I haven't looked up how much carbs other offals have, do you get flare ups from any other organs?
Do a lot of you ZeroCarbers use honey?Since honey contains carbs, then true ZeroCarbers by definition do not eat honey. Did you mean to ask if any carnivores eat honey? Like bears with carnivorous morphology but omnivorous tastes, I occasionally eat honey, but see it as a treat. I don't regularly use any sweetener.
For example,from what I read in Lex's posts,he found he needed to add salt.I was doing that for quite a while. I had hypostatic orthotension when I didn't. I cut it out again a couple days ago and things are going better (anecdotally I also seem to be getting more energy from the same amount of food sans salt).
Phil: I'm refering to people wo follow the zerocarb WOE.I've never heard of someone calling themselves ZC while eating honey regularly. Do they claim that honey is ZC? If so, do they make this claim based on Aajonus' bogus claim that there are no carbs in honey (just "enzymes")?
It seems there are differences,like I mentioned above,as to what it truly consists of.Some zerocarbers eat cooked food,some drink coffee(yes,you'll see that on the other ZC site), some eat dairy,some use honey...I used to read ZIOH and never saw anyone claim that honey was ZC. Has someone made that claim there?
....The neutrophils that we rely on to kill any invading bacteria and viruses form 60% – 70% of the white blood cells in our bodies. They are generally much more active than any other blood cell. It can be disastrous to our health, therefore, if their effectiveness is compromised in any way. But this is exactly what happens if we eat too much carbohydrate and too much sugar in particular.
By ‘sugar’ I do not mean just the white, granulated stuff we serve from a bowl on the table; this is called ‘sucrose’ but the term sugar applies to glucose, fructose (fruit sugar), maltose (grain sugar), honey (a mixture of glucose, fructose, sucrose and dextrin). http://blog.zeroinginonhealth.com/2009/04/28/afraid-of-swine-flu-stop-eating-carbohydrates/
.etc.I guess there should be different classifications just like there are in the vegetarian world.Yeah, like "carnivore" and "low carb". That's why this section's title contains "carnivore" as well as "ZC".
For example,from what I read in Lex's posts,he found he needed to add salt.Bear added milk,cream,aspartame,some add honey....etc.Salt is not a carb and I wasn't aware that Bear calls himself ZC, but even if he does, that doesn't make honey ZC.
So,the point is:There must be a reason why honey,milk(sweetener),splenda is added.Is it that after a while the body needs something "different" than just meat??I don't know and it could be something as simple as they like the taste. You'd have to ask them.
p.s. I do realize that some people who diet are more concerned with weight loss than health,so that might account for some of the differences.I don't know,just asking.ThanksYes, I believe that does account for some of the differences in what some low carb dieters eat, though not all. What do you eat and why?
Phil: I didn't say "regularly".I noticed that Actionhero uses it on occasion.As I mentioned, if it's not a regular food then it could be regarded as an occasional cheat, but that would not make it zero carb--it would be an acknowledged cheat.
would be a Also,I was trying to refer to sweeteners in a general sense.I asked: "honey or some other sweetener"?The answer to that is no, sweeteners in a general sense are not generally regarded as truly "ZC" by anyone other than folks trying to justify their habits. Even zero-carb sweeteners have been found to spike insulin (Charles of ZIOH has actually written about that, and studies have demonstrated this). The most common hypothesis for why is that the super-sweet taste tricks the body into thinking it is ingesting sugar, so the body generates insulin to offset the perceived sugar. Artificial sweeteners are likely unhealthy in other ways and I would personally eat raw honey before I'd eat artificial sweeteners, but to each his/her own. Inclusion of sweeteners of any sort could be regarded as cheats/exceptions/compromises, but I don't see any of them as truly ZC in the spirit of what doing ZC is supposed to be about.
On Charles' site they use all kinds of stuff:splenda,milk,cream,BBQ sauce....whatever.It doesn't matter what Charles' definitions are.Correct--at least not to me it doesn't, and apparently not you. I congratulate you on not drinking the ZIOH cool aid. ;) (Not that I have a personal beef of any sort with Charlies or that forum--I learned some good stuff there and first encountered Lex Rooker there, which was a major boon for me--we just have different views on some things.) I see Charles' claim that milk is ZC as an excuse to eat it, not something grounded in fact or supported by evidence.
I'm talking about what the members actually eat.Haven't you seen the recipes in there???It sounds like you're talking about the recent bizarre experiments of Charles and others who followed him off the deep end into things like ice cream, yes? Like I said, I don't consider Charles' making and eating of ice cream to be evidence that it's ZC, nor anyone else's following him into that experiment. As I recall, even he admitted it was a cheat, not truly ZC even under his new loose definition. I don't understand how he equates an all-animal-foods-diet that includes milk with ZC, but I can guess why. For one thing, it would be a pain to have to change his URL and Web documents to replace ZIOH and ZC with All Animal Foods (AAF) or something. Plus, AAF isn't as catchy as ZC. :)
As far as classifications,there might as well be ones for cooked-ZC, raw-ZC,and part-time raw-ZC. Since this is a raw site then obviously the ones who cook would go to Charles' site.Correct--as well as the Dirty Carnivore site--and that's what folks tend to do. The owner of the DC site (Satya) is a former member of this forum. There's some good info at both forums, though I prefer the latter because it's less dogmatic, more-evidence-based approach is closer to mine.
Also,you could have lacto-raw-ZC,or lacto-part-time-raw-ZC :DHeh, heh. At the risk of pissing Tyler off, I think that sort of factionalism and obsession with detail is a wee bit more characteristic of vegan/vegetarian/fruitarian forums than ZC forums, though a faction did split off of ZIOH and it is possible there could be more schisms in the future.
I know salt is not a carb.I just mean that it seems the body needs something else other than only meat in a some/maybe a lot of cases(such as dairy,sweetener,and/or salt).Yeah, but you're mixing together disparate things and "it seems the body needs something else" is not a good reason to eat something. I think there is a case for salt intake if not enough salt sources like animal blood are consumed, but the case for salt does not justify dairy or sweetener. To me raw dairy only makes sense as a staple if one is not intolerant and animal body fats are not feasible, and then just the fat and possibly fermented milk. Sweetener only makes sense as one reason for some to eat some whole raw fruit or honeycomb, but never as a processed additive. But to each his own.
For me,I'm getting to VLC at this point.Seafood,meat,eggs,celery,cucumber,tomato,macadamias.I want to try that for a while and see how I feel.Good luck. Make sure you get enough fats for your individual needs and unless you're planning on eating a lot of wild, fatty fish, shellfish and seaweeds, I would also read up on and perhaps consider pasture-fed animal fats and organs, sea salt, and young greens (but I'm no expert and still have some symptoms that haven't completely resolved).
I've been reading Lex's journal and even he ate other stuff once in a while.Like once a month scrambled eggs with butter(cooked).My understanding is that Lex doesn't eat near-ZC (he eats liver as part of his mix regularly) because he thinks it's necessary, but because he tried it as an experiment and since it has been very successful doesn't see a reason to add in plant carbs right now. So I doubt that he's trying to adhere to any particular definition of ZC, though raw ZC approximates his approach (I think RPD or raw carnivore would actually be more accurate terms).
As far as fats:So far what I can find is pasteurized butter,rendered beef fat,rendered pork fat(not good enough?).Eggs are helping me quite a bit.As well as fatty fish,ground grass-finished beef,pork,lamb(all from same farm anyway)I'll search for suet/marrow if I feel the need to.Might order from Slanker's.I don't know.I wouldn't bother ordering until you've tried them all and found out what works for you. You don't want to end up with a load of food you don't want.
Yeah sweeteners are pretty addictive.Ask any bear you might come across ;) However,from reading on these forums,one of the benefits of ZC vs VLC/LC is that cravings should cease to exist.But from what you're telling me plus the recipes(ice cream,cheesecake,mousse,hamburgers) on the other site,I guess not ;DSpeaking only for myself, and not claiming it means anything for anyone else, there are certain foods I used to crave that I don't anymore, such as pizza, ice cream, cheese, crackers, cookies, and other baked goods, but if there are reminders of certain foods, then I do crave them again. I find the biggest trigger of cravings to be eating some of a crave-generating food again and then storing some in the house. Forums like this one in which people rave about raw fruits and honey do tempt as well. Raw fruits and honey give me the strongest cravings these days. Perhaps it's because I still eat them occasionally, but I think there's more to it, since honey is the favorite food of the Hadza, above even meat.
I think one of the things we shouldn't get bogged down on is to try to live up to a particular "classification" of a diet.I mean seriously,did paleo man go around and say,"I'm not eating that fruit/vegetable,I'm ZC"? No way.Everyone is eating a particular "classificiation" of a diet, even if it's just the SAD or the "anything goes" diet, but I agree with you about avoiding dogma, which is why I'm glad that "Carnivorous" is in the title of this section. Unfortunately, people tend to focus on the "Zero Carb". It's like a lightning rod. It might help to add "Very Low Carb" so folks wouldn't confuse carnivorous with ZC. If we had vegans here they might be more upset by the "Carnivorous".
So far,my RVLC is going really well! I get pure water/sodium from cucumbers and celery(world's best natural water filter)and my other needs are met with what I described above.To me, ZC seems too dry,and I seem to have less cravings than a lot ZC'ers from what I have read so far.But,of course,there is no shortage of opinions ;)Good for you, and I agree that ZC as conceived by people like those at ZIOH other than Lex Rooker never made complete sense to me. Some ZCers do very well, and the photo transformations at ZIOH are actually much more impressive than the few we have here, but others do not do so well. Despite all the negative talk about pemmican in this forum, the last I checked the all-pemmican-diet eaters, Del Fuego and his family, were still doing very well and looked great. It's hard for me to knock success, even if I wonder whether in the long run they would do better with some organs in their diet. Del Fuego was also experimenting with other foods when I last checked.
sidetrack:I think cooking came about just to expand food availability.First came fire,then came the baked potato.After that,all hell broke loose.That's all,no big mystery 8)Yeah, I think most scientists and well-read folks already hold that basic view (excusing the New World potato example, which I'm guessing you meant as a joke).
...But for me,I just don't like to cook anyway.Hate cleaning up after,I'd rather have all that fat inside me than scrubbing it off the pan ;DHeh, heh. Same here. Originally eating raw was going to be a temporary experiment for me, and then I would test a standard cooked-Paleo diet again and see what happened, but when I started listing all the reasons for me to eat raw in response to bogus assumptions made about it, I started to wonder why I should eat much cooked again. I still can't come up with good reasons to eat cooked, other than occasionally in social situations.
Speaking of going cold turkey, did anyone try raw turkey meat?