Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: d leh on August 20, 2009, 04:17:33 am
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hello r there any particular organ meats or meats from specific animals that u find more palatable especially for a beginner? also which cuts of meat or organs r the safest to eat with regard to parasites
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I started out with wild ocean fish. Yummy omega3.
Now that I've gotten used to beef beginning with seared beef, I love beef.
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As far as organs go, I prefer lamb. They're smaller and easier to deal with. I treat organs the way I used to treat supplements in my standard western diet days. I just eat a small portion with the usual meal of fat/meat. I don't really like eating them as one big meal.
My meat and fat are usually from beef or bison. I honestly can't tell much of a difference between the two. I love them both.
Lamb meet is okay with me, but the cuts are more expensive and not really worth it to me to eat consistently. Plus, my mother cooked a lot of lamb when I was growing up and I always had mint jelly with it. I don't really like being reminded of that while I'm eating. I ate a lot of steak growing up and it was pretty rare with no condiments so it was easier for me to transition with that I guess.
The only fish I like now are salmon from the store, and mackerel at sushi restaurants. I'll eat oyesters, scallops, and shrimp from time to time.
I would eat more eggs if I had a convenient (and trusted) source.
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(Wildcaught) fish/shellfish are easier to get used to for newbies as is raw ground/minced beef(oh and raw eggs-don't consume the egg-white). Lamb innards were also easier for me, way back when.Liver of any animal is the most difficult to get used to, and meat and organs from wild game is the hardest(but you'll eventually find it tastes the best after thye inevitable taste-change occurs).
You will, initially, require lots of raw spices until you get used to the taste of raw meats on their own.
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thanks everyone for the replies
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(oh and raw eggs-don't consume the egg-white).
?? We have talked about it in great length here (2 pages) : http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/raw-eggs-whites-and-yolks/
You will, initially, require lots of raw spices until you get used to the taste of raw meats on their own.
Not necessarily.
Cheers
Francois
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I found raw ground venison and bison easier to eat than raw ground grassfed beef (the leaner and less strong-tasting the ground meat, the eaiser I found it to eat). Raw ground venison and raw venison sausage were what first got me to like raw meat. Raw steak was easier for me to eat at first than raw ground beef until I got used to the texture of ground meat by eating the venison. To bring the fat levels up further, I added marrow or tallow (heated at low temps) or suet. I used mostly tallow early on because it was easier for me to eat than raw suet or marrow. I'm trying to gradually eat more of my fat raw without losing weight (tallow is still easier for me to eat).
Whole eggs keep getting whipped severely (pardon the pun ;) ) as causing biotin deficiency--without supporting evidence--both here and at another dietary forum, so I looked into it. One estimate at Wikipedia claims it requires eating around 20 egg whites a day to develop biotin deficiency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biotin#Sources), though pregnant women are more susceptible.
I scoured the Internet for a single case of any human or animal ever getting biotin deficiency from eating whole raw eggs and did not find one (the only cases I found involved people and animals eating lots of egg whites--not whole eggs--and they weren't eating biologically appropriate diets as we do). This despite the fact that many body builders report consuming 12-20 (http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/egg-cheese-recipes/39525-raw-eggs.html), 30 (http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/16517-eggs.html, http://www.discussfitness.com/forums/f47/milk-for-fat-loss-39077.html), 50 (http://forums.anabolex.com/showthread.php?t=9714), even 60 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php/t-108674861.html--a second-hand source) raw eggs a day, with the only reported side effect being one dude saying he got flatulence. Before the advent of cheap processed protein drinks, raw eggs were a common body-building food. The world record for raw egg consumption in 5 minutes as of 1931 was 70 (http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2363146). There aren't as many raw egg eating contests these days because of the salmonella hysteria, but here's YouTube to the rescue--this guy drank 20 raw eggs within 12 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qi0CiySiRI&feature=related.
Aajonus Vonderplanitz claims he sometimes consumes 50 raw eggs in a day. Tyler questioned that and I said I would personally try to see how many I can eat and the more people trash whole raw eggs the more psyched up about doing it I get (I enjoy freaking people out--which is a good thing for Raw Paleo Dieters ;) ). Someone here referred me to a primal body building site for weight gaining advice and the owner recommended that "hard gainers" like me eat "a dozen eggs a day" (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/gain-weight-build-muscle). I've read articles by numerous bodybuilding experts and many of them recommended eggs or raw eggs (especially the ones who started in the 1970s or earlier before the anti-egg hysteria). So until someone provides some actual evidence, I'm skeptical of the claims that eating whole raw eggs leads to biotin deficiency and I'm increasingly considering eating more myself--perhaps I'll eliminate them for a while first, though, to make sure I'm not getting any ill effects from them.
Some bodybuilders eat powdered or pasteurized liquid egg whites (heat pasteurization neutralizes the avidin), which I do NOT recommend, since most of the nutrition is in the yolks. This dude "gym rat" even eats 5kg of bottled pasteurized egg whites a week (20 egg whites per day) without reporting biotin deficiency (the symptoms of which are hard to miss): http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/egg-cheese-recipes/39525-raw-eggs.html. Again, I do NOT recommend that.
The adult male requirements for biotin are quite low: only 30 micrograms per day. Fertilized eggs are even less of a risk than standard eggs, because fertilization allegedly neutralizes the avidin. To top it off, good bacteria in the human intestine produce biotin (sources: "Biotin Biosynthesis in B. sphaericus," GeneGlobe Pathways: Interactive pathways covering multiple organisms, https://www1.qiagen.com/geneglobe/PathwayView.aspx?pathwayID=58; "Biotin uptake in prokaryotes by solute transporters," http://www.pnas.org/content/104/8/2909.full.pdf). The latter explains why biotin is not considered an essential nutrient.
This seems to put the raw egg controversy to rest, though Lex and others have pointed out that it would have been hard to eat a lot of eggs during the Stone Age. On the other hand, eggs--particularly fertilized ones--are basically baby chickens, so it doesn't seem like it would require much adaptation to eat them. Still, I'd be interested in any other cautions Lex might have about them.
It's funny, I was originally going to eliminate eggs, but the strong reactions I got to any mention of eating them piqued my interest (I've generally found that the opinions that are most widely and strongly held tend to be the most wrong--such as the supposed benefits of eating lots of whole grains), and the body building article that someone recommended for me got me thinking some more, and then this thread convinced we were overdue to have some actual investigating done about them.
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PaleoPhil,
I was browsing Slanker's site http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com and clicked on Eggs, too icon and there I found a reference to Christopher Eggs
http://www.christophereggs.com
Each egg contains 660 mg of Omega-3 fatty acids. For me a nice addition to my diet to combine with my liquid Green Pastures cod liver oil supplement.
The one beef I have with Christophereggs is the following quote on the FATS link
It is well known that saturated fats are bad for us. Found in many foods including meat, dairy products, and some tropical oils, saturated fat increases the risk of coronary artery disease, diabetes and obesity.
For a company that has a good product, I find that statement ludicrous.
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I scoured the Internet for a single case of any human or animal ever getting biotin deficiency from eating whole raw eggs and did not find one (the only cases I found involved people and animals eating lots of egg whites--not whole eggs--and they weren't eating biologically appropriate diets as we do). This despite the fact that many body builders report consuming 12-20 (http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/egg-cheese-recipes/39525-raw-eggs.html), 30 (http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/16517-eggs.html, http://www.discussfitness.com/forums/f47/milk-for-fat-loss-39077.html), 50 (http://forums.anabolex.com/showthread.php?t=9714), even 60 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php/t-108674861.html--a second-hand source) raw eggs a day, with the only reported side effect being one dude saying he got flatulence. Before the advent of cheap processed protein drinks, raw eggs were a common body-building food. The world record for raw egg consumption in 5 minutes as of 1931 was 70
(I've generally found that the opinions that are most widely and strongly held tend to be the most wrong--such as the supposed benefits of eating lots of whole grains), and the body building article that someone recommended for me got me thinking some more, and then this thread convinced we were overdue to have some actual investigating done about them.
Great research, Phil ! My own experience confirms that eating a lot of good raw eggs is no problem at all... except finding enough of them !
Cheers
Francois
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Paleophil, you're misstating the case. No rawist has ever claimed that you get biotin deficiency from whole, raw eggs(only exception I've ever heard of is Mercola who isn't genuinely raw, anyway). What has been shown is that raw(unfertilised) eggs are less well digested raw than cooked(unlike raw meats which are better digested raw than cooked).
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Paleophil, you're misstating the case. No rawist has ever claimed that you get biotin deficiency from whole, raw eggs(only exception I've ever heard of is Mercola who isn't genuinely raw, anyway). What has been shown is that raw(unfertilised) eggs are less well digested raw than cooked(unlike raw meats which are better digested raw than cooked).
Are you sure ?
The more the eggs are cooked, the longer they stay in my stomach. For me, raw eggs are digested much easier than cooked eggs!
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Are you sure ?
The more the eggs are cooked, the longer they stay in my stomach. For me, raw eggs are digested much easier than cooked eggs!
Here's the study I referred to re raw eggs and cooked eggs. Granted, it is just 1 study:-
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/128/10/1716
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Here's the study I referred to re raw eggs and cooked eggs. Granted, it is just 1 study:-
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/128/10/1716
Ileal digestibility seems to be improved. But cooked eggs are harder than raw eggs for the stomach.
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Please forgive the length of this, but there was a lot to address.
Thanks Dextery and Iguana! When I get interested in a topic I like to investigate thoroughly and explore all sides, because I have been consistently amazed at what I've learned this way over the years. For example, in this way I found fascinating examples of hunting, fishing, fauna eating and carnivory among some nonhuman primates that dispelled a lot of vegetarian propaganda. Interestingly, the main original sources of antagonism toward eggs seem to be large food corporations and vegetarian/vegan groups.
It looks like the food companies spread anti-egg propaganda so as to replace egg breakfasts and raw eggs for bodybuilding with their processed cereals and other breakfast food products and their processed bodybuilding drinks and supplements (such as whey protein powders). To get people to buy their processed crap they demonized eggs (as well as meats and animal lard).
Of course all of us here are familiar with the reasons why vegetarians and vegans tend not to be big on egg consumption, the propaganda tactics they use and their general preference for dogma (based on alleged "ethics") over honest inquiry. They tend to use the same sorts of tactics against eggs that they use against meats.
The other source of criticism of eggs has tended to be from Paleo dieters and others who say that eggs were not commonly eaten during the Stone Age and most chickens are fed crap today. I was in this camp, but now I think that for me, these downsides may be offset by potential bodybuilding and convenience benefits.
...The one beef I have with Christophereggs is the following quote on the FATS link
It is well known that saturated fats are bad for us. Found in many foods including meat, dairy products, and some tropical oils, saturated fat increases the risk of coronary artery disease, diabetes and obesity.
For a company that has a good product, I find that statement ludicrous.
Yes, it's ironic that the most bad-mouthed foods on the planet--red meat and saturated fat--are actually the healthiest of all (along with the other animal fats and organs) when wild or pasture-fed. It took me a long time to learn about this myself.
I have one other minor bone to pick with Christophereggs, but it's the same one I have with all the large organic, free-range egg producers: chickens are not vegetarians! So for the sake of the chickens, if not also egg consumers, stop feeding chickens a biologically inappropriate vegetarian diet! If they let them eat the insects, grubs, worms and carrion they do in the wild, the omega 3's would come naturally and they wouldn't need to feed them supplements to artificially boost it. Of course, prices would be higher, but I wish there were at least one major brand of premium eggs that did this.
Paleophil, you're misstating the case. No rawist has ever claimed that you get biotin deficiency from whole, raw eggs(only exception I've ever heard of is Mercola who isn't genuinely raw, anyway).
These are the sort of comments that piqued my curiosity:
> "(oh and raw eggs-don't consume the egg-white)."
> "Re avidin:- Some rawists have claimed that you only get biotin deficiency if you eat the equivalent of 24 raw eggs a day, including the egg-white. Others have claimed that it's better to just eat the egg-yolk as they cite potential side-effects re biotin-deficiency. It's difficult to say, but perhaps one should err on the side of caution, given the lack of fertilised, raw eggs in the UK." (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/new-to-forum-hello/msg5282/#msg5282) Elsewhere you provided a link to the source of that claim (http://ourlittlefarm.bz/knowledge). I read the article and it provided no supporting references or other evidence, so it's nearly useless. Once again it's just a claim that eggs cause problems as though it were a known fact without any supporting evidence or explanation. At least in this case they're admitting it would take a huge number of raw eggs to cause a problem. It's amazing that even some egg producers have bought into some of these anti-egg arguments without solid evidence.
> "Re raw butter:- I would suggest using raw eggs instead. One can't seem to get fertilised eggs in the UK, so you might want to heed the warnings by some RPDers re avidin, so you may want to throw away most of the egg-white." (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/new-to-forum-hello/msg5221/#msg5221)
So I was merely investigating what you have said. You're not the only one to make such statements, so I'm not singling you out--there were other comments by people at other forums and maybe here as well that stated multiple reasons for not eating raw eggs or eggs in general almost anytime eggs were mentioned, as though they were indisputable facts, with little or no references or other evidence. I grew increasingly suspicious about this, because that's the sort of talk that emanates from urban legends. Based on my research so far it's looking like most of the criticisms are indeed urban legends. Usually when I try to find the original sources, the trail leads nowhere.
I have not found much real evidence that raw eggs are unhealthy or inferior to cooked eggs, though I would not be surprised if it turned out that standard commercial vegetarian-fed raw eggs have some negative long-term health effects. Speculations about the potential problems of standard eggs and that the fact that eggs were eaten less often than meats are the closest thing to evidence I've seen. The latter argument is also true of fish, which could not possibly have been eaten in anywhere near the quantities of land creatures (which is a fact of basic geography and has been confirmed in observations of all human and nonhuman primate groups--even those humans living on coasts like the Greenland Inuit apparently tend to eat more red meat from sea animals like seals and whales than fish, with the possible exceptions of the groups that lived near bountiful salmon runs, and even there they had to eat land animals when salmon were not in season), yet most people insist that fish are healthy nonetheless--and I think they're probably right. Granted, fish are closer to land mammal meat than eggs, but eggs don't seem hugely different either (they are basically chicken ova and zygotes--in other words, animal flesh). What's your opinion of fish eggs? Other than the salt, are those also a problematic food?
What has been shown is that raw(unfertilised) eggs are less well digested raw than cooked(unlike raw meats which are better digested raw than cooked). ....
Here's the study I referred to re raw eggs and cooked eggs. Granted, it is just 1 study:-
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/128/10/1716
OK, thanks for that reference. It's the first decent one I've seen from the anti-raw-egg perspective. It looks like it may have been funded by the American Society for Nutritional Sciences. Nutrition organizations tend to be funded by food conglomerates like Nestle Corp. and the like. That doesn't refute the study, but does help to maintain a healthy attitude of skepticism.
Carnivore's counterpoint is valid and can be easily tested. Just try eating as many cooked eggs as you can one day and raw eggs the next. You'll find you can eat substantially more raw eggs, and faster.
I'm surprised that you of all people would argue that cooked unfertilized eggs are more nutritious than raw unfertilized eggs. What about all the problems with cooking you've stated repeatedly before?
While I recognize that frequent consumption of large numbers of eggs is not truly Paleo, I'm increasingly interested in quality raw eggs as a food source for the purposes of a fast, convenient and easy weight-gain food. Most people don't need to gain weight like I do, so I'm not recommending this for anyone else--just considering it for myself. First I want to go at least 4 days in a row without eating any eggs (for a baseline comparison in case I do experience problems) and then I hope to begin the egg bonanza. :D I finished the last of my current small batch of eggs today.
I'm still interested in Lex's input too, though. Because he has a way of ripping my points to shreds. ;D As always, I'm open to whatever will actually work for me.
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I'll leave you guys to the eggs, you've said everything I could add anyway :)
d leh - I found that good quality raw beef meat in the form of a big piece, thats grass fed and from as close to the farmers as possible (for example farmers markets) is a great way to start. Ask them for some suet, which is the fat, and maybe warm it just a little before you eat it. Everything at room temp, or a little warm.
Eat that for a few weeks, meat and fat in the suggested ammounts (read this forum there is alot of info), to get used to things. A little s+p, sprinkle of chilli powder maybe. Whatever. Then when your body is getting used to things, be adventurous. When you find a good supplier, dont be scared, buy some raw liver and eat a mouthful! You probably wont like it! I hated raw kidney the first time, then I got some from this great farmer and it was amaaazzzzing! I think whole meat is easier to get used to then mince.
So yeah, meat, and fat - a little warmed perhaps. :) Like they said before!
Then raw liver.....kidneys....heart!......oyseters......marrow......mmmmm
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Paleophil, I still believe that one should remain scientific and free of dogma. So, even if I'm a sceptic re any benefits coming from cooked-egg-consumption, I am certainly prepared to accept scientific studies if they also seem to confirm my own results. I used to eat multiple raw eggs in large quantities(a dozen raw duck eggs a day or 6 raw goose eggs or whatever), and I quickly found had some sort of food-intolerance - well, maybe not strictly a food-intolerance, but the stuff eventually went through me virtually unabsorbed after I'd been eating so many raw eggs every fortnight for a couple of months. Same happened when I did that absurd experiment, eating only raw liver every alternate week.
The issue with cooked eggs is that, regardless of the avidin issue, they produce heat-created toxins after cooking so I don't anyway recommend them as being "better" than raw eggs.
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I love science too, Tyler, and therefore I adopt an attitude of skepticism toward everything, including allegedly scientific studies. Like you and Lex, I've found my own experience to be the best barometer, although even that can mislead at times, so I also extensively research and investigate the science and monitor the experiences of others for clues. So I appreciate you're sharing your experience re: raw eggs. At least we were able to put the excessive concerns re: avidin in perspective. Egg intolerance is another matter. When I try the weight-gain egg experiment I'll be on the watch out for any similar symptoms. I used to get negative symptoms from cooked eggs and gave them up for raw in part because of that (a study that says that cooked eggs digest well doesn't do me much good when they didn't for me for whatever reason), so if I get symptoms from raw eggs I'll do the same.
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I'm still a wimp when it comes to organ meats, both raw and cooked. The only ones I've really liked so far were roasted chicken hearts--although occasionally cooked calves liver tasted good to me, but not always. A distaste for organs seems to arise from too many years of eating modern foods, so I hope some day to overcome this unnatural distaste just like I overcame my distaste for fats and raw meat.
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I used to eat multiple raw eggs in large quantities(a dozen raw duck eggs a day or 6 raw goose eggs or whatever), and I quickly found had some sort of food-intolerance - well, maybe not strictly a food-intolerance, but the stuff eventually went through me virtually unabsorbed after I'd been eating so many raw eggs every fortnight for a couple of months. Same happened when I did that absurd experiment, eating only raw liver every alternate week.
How did you eat those larges amounts of raw duck and goose eggs ? I suspect that you ate too much of them by overriding your instinct in one way or another (eggs salted, spiced, in alternation with another food, mixed with something else, or like the guy on the video provided by PaleoPhil on page 1 : without eating the white and yoke one after the other for each egg).
The number of raw eggs we are able to eat without any trouble varies largely from day to day. It’s not because someone ate without problem, say, 30 eggs in a short time, that everybody can do that everyday.
The day before yesterday, I ate 5 hens eggs at lunch, and then I felt it was enough. But since I had eaten between 8 to 12 of the same eggs every day for a week or more without problems, and particularly because I was influenced by what I had just read :
many body builders report consuming 12-20 (http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/egg-cheese-recipes/39525-raw-eggs.html), 30 (http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/16517-eggs.html, http://www.discussfitness.com/forums/f47/milk-for-fat-loss-39077.html), 50 (http://forums.anabolex.com/showthread.php?t=9714), even 60 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php/t-108674861.html--a second-hand source) raw eggs a day, with the only reported side effect being one dude saying he got flatulence. Before the advent of cheap processed protein drinks, raw eggs were a common body-building food. The world record for raw egg consumption in 5 minutes as of 1931 was 70 (http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2363146). There aren't as many raw egg eating contests these days because of the salmonella hysteria, but here's YouTube to the rescue--this guy drank 20 raw eggs within 12 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qi0CiySiRI&feature=related.
Aajonus Vonderplanitz claims he sometimes consumes 50 raw eggs in a day.
then I decided to eat a sixth egg after those 5. I immediately felt that I shouldn't have done that ! My digestion was troublesome and I almost fell ill with influenza – I felt it showing its head >D, but today I feel it’s over and I was able just now to eat eggs again, two of them. ;D
Cheers
Francois
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I love science too, Tyler, and therefore I adopt an attitude of skepticism toward everything, including allegedly scientific studies. Like you and Lex, I've found my own experience to be the best barometer, although even that can mislead at times, so I also extensively research and investigate the science and monitor the experiences of others for clues. So I appreciate you're sharing your experience re: raw eggs. At least we were able to put the excessive concerns re: avidin in perspective. Egg intolerance is another matter. When I try the weight-gain egg experiment I'll be on the watch out for any similar symptoms. I used to get negative symptoms from cooked eggs and gave them up for raw in part because of that (a study that says that cooked eggs digest well doesn't do me much good when they didn't for me for whatever reason), so if I get symptoms from raw eggs I'll do the same.
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I'm still a wimp when it comes to organ meats, both raw and cooked. The only ones I've really liked so far were roasted chicken hearts--although occasionally cooked calves liver tasted good to me, but not always. A distaste for organs seems to arise from too many years of eating modern foods, so I hope some day to overcome this unnatural distaste just like I overcame my distaste for fats and raw meat.
Re avidin:- That's just it, I don't think it was a question of egg-intolerance as when I eat very small amounts of raw eggs I have no such problems.
Re Francois' comment:- No, I ate the whole raw eggs at the time, just popped the whole mess into my mouth(yolk and white). I simply don't thrive on so many eggs a day. I really need raw meat(and a little raw fruit) for overall health. Eggs/dairy etc. just don't do it for me. It may be due to some food-intolerance to the grainfed origin of most raw eggs - after all, some people have a nasty reaction to raw, grainfed meats.
Re organ-meats:- The irony is that the main reason we can't handle the taste of raw organ-meats etc. is because they have much richer taste than the denatured cooked foods we eat. Indeed, cooked food is so devoid of taste that spices had to be invented to make them more palatable. It takes time to get used to , first, raw organ-meats from grassfed animals, and , if you're fortunate to find a source, you'll eventually get used to(and prefer) the taste of raw organ-meats from wild animals like deer etc.
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Re avidin:- That's just it, I don't think it was a question of egg-intolerance as when I eat very small amounts of raw eggs I have no such problems.
So do you think it was a biotin deficiency that caused your poor digestion of the eggs and/or diarrhea? This is not a recognized symptom of that, AFAIK. Did you experience any of the recognized symptoms of biotin deficiency?
... I simply don't thrive on so many eggs a day. I really need raw meat(and a little raw fruit) for overall health.
I completely agree. I never eat just eggs all day long and avoid meats. Eggs for me are a secondary food that I consume mainly for quick, easy calories, convenience, pleasure, etc., not because I think I can avoid meat by eating them.
Eggs/dairy etc. just don't do it for me. It may be due to some food-intolerance to the grainfed origin of most raw eggs - after all, some people have a nasty reaction to raw, grainfed meats.
OK, now I'm really confused. What do you think the problem was, biotin deficiency or food intolerance or both?
Re organ-meats:- The irony is that the main reason we can't handle the taste of raw organ-meats etc. is because they have much richer taste than the denatured cooked foods we eat. Indeed, cooked food is so devoid of taste that spices had to be invented to make them more palatable.
Yes, I've noticed that even supermarket bison meat is much blander than the small-farm bison meat sold at the health food market (which probably does less grain feeding) and I've developed a taste for the stronger-flavored pasture-fed and wild meats. Yet, to my brother-in-law who is used to supermarket ground beef, even that (cooked) bland bison has too strong of a taste to him and he couldn't eat it.
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Re Francois' comment: (...) It may be due to some food-intolerance to the grainfed origin of most raw eggs - after all, some people have a nasty reaction to raw, grainfed meats.
Ah, it was eggs of grainfed (perhaps even wheat ?) origin? I supposed the eggs you ate were good enough !
Cheers
Francois
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Ah, it was eggs of grainfed (perhaps even wheat ?) origin? I supposed the eggs you ate were good enough !
Cheers
Francois
Egg is a seasonal food, not available all year. Wild eggs are smalls and difficult to find in the nature. Egg is one of the most allergenic food (like grain, dairy or seafood). It contains some anti-nutrients in the white.
It may explains why some people like me can't tolerate very well eggs, even on a raw paleo diet.
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Egg is a seasonal food, not available all year. Wild eggs are smalls and difficult to find in the nature. Egg is one of the most allergenic food (like grain, dairy or seafood). It contains some anti-nutrients in the white.
It may explains why some people like me can't tolerate very well eggs, even on a raw paleo diet.
What about emus, ostriches, moas, swans, wild goose, giant sea turtles, crocodiles and iguanas eggs? In a former live very long ago, I can tell you that I could easily find a lot of eggs, some huge! ;) Nature today? Where’s some real nature left? Eggs not available all year? Perhaps, and what then?
And what’s the fuss about the whites allegedly containing anti nutrients ? If it tastes no good to you, you simply reject it and just eat the yoke. And if the yoke is no good to you either, you simply don’t eat eggs at all, it’s no problem to me…
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What about emus, ostriches, moas, swans, wild goose, giant sea turtles, crocodiles and iguanas eggs? In a former live very long ago, I can tell you that I could easily find a lot of eggs, some huge! ;) Nature today? Where’s some real nature left? Eggs not available all year? Perhaps, and what then?
And what’s the fuss about the whites allegedly containing anti nutrients ? If it tastes no good to you, you simply reject it and just eat the yoke. And if the yoke is no good to you either, you simply don’t eat eggs at all, it’s no problem to me…
And if it tastes good but makes harm ? Like with Tyler, me, and so many others ?
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And if it tastes good but makes harm ? Like with Tyler, me, and so many others ?
Then that’s something odd. Since 500 or 600 millions years, animals have learned to eat what’s good for their health; the individual who ate some harmful stuff were somehow diminished in their ability to compete and survive. Only the strongest survived and to be strong they had to be able to find and select the right food for them. They evolved along with their environment, are thus adapted to it and adapted to any kind of stuff that has been present in the environment, knowing perfectly what to avoid, what to eat to be fit and in which quantity according to their own actual metabolic state.
How do they know that ? Of course, animals as well as our ancestors in the Paleolithic era don’t and didn’t construct elaborate theories, write nor read books and studies about nutrition ??? They know by their sensory perceptions, mainly smell and taste : as long as something tastes good, it is good and if it tastes bad, it is bad. GOOD = GOOD
It works fine with everything that has been accessible in the environment for a duration sufficiently long, that is any natural stuff grown in the nature. But ever since mankind has been clever enough to introduce some new mixed, processed, and artificial kinds of stuff, the equation may sometimes become GOOD = BAD !
For example, candy and ethylene glycol taste good but are quite bad for the health. The same can happen more surreptitiously if, for instance, poultry is fed with intensively selected grain such as wheat and deprived of open, natural space. Such eggs may taste good while being bad for our health.
Another condition may be encountered when a perfectly natural, original and good tasting food cause uncomfortable reactions which could be mistaken for harmful. It happens to an animal or human that has been fed for a long duration with processed and cooked food. It is logical to infer that this phenomenon is not directly due to the ingestion of the perfectly natural food, but to the recirculation in view of the elimination of intoxinating cooked stuff or dairy products previously eaten.
So, if it tastes good but seems to make harm, either it is a non original paleo food or a detoxination reaction is incorrectly taken for harmful. Logically, I see no other possibility, except perhaps that the detox becomes so intense and violent that it may lead to the dead of the individual. Experience shows that is normally never the case for humans as long as no processed and neolithic food are reintroduced during the course of the detox.
Cheers
Francois
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So do you think it was a biotin deficiency that caused your poor digestion of the eggs and/or diarrhea? This is not a recognized symptom of that, AFAIK. Did you experience any of the recognized symptoms of biotin deficiency?
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I suspect it was a combination of factors. The diarrhea was due to my body not needing the relevant nutrients in the egg so it got rid of it(same happened when I've overate foods like raw liver). I did get depression of a sort, and muscle-pains (part of biotin deficinecy symptoms) but can't remember if I had the others.So, it could have been the avidin and/or the grainfed origin of eggs or maybe something else entirely. But it couldn't have been food-intolerance as I'm sure I'd have noticed some reaction when I only ate tiny amounts of raw eggs.
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Then that’s something odd. Since 500 or 600 millions years, animals have learned to eat what’s good for their health; the individual who ate some harmful stuff were somehow diminished in their ability to compete and survive. Only the strongest survived and to be strong they had to be able to find and select the right food for them. They evolved along with their environment, are thus adapted to it and adapted to any kind of stuff that has been present in the environment, knowing perfectly what to avoid, what to eat to be fit and in which quantity according to their own actual metabolic state.
How do they know that ? Of course, animals as well as our ancestors in the Paleolithic era don’t and didn’t construct elaborate theories, write nor read books and studies about nutrition ??? They know by their sensory perceptions, mainly smell and taste : as long as something tastes good, it is good and if it tastes bad, it is bad. GOOD = GOOD
It works fine with everything that has been accessible in the environment for a duration sufficiently long, that is any natural stuff grown in the nature. But ever since mankind has been clever enough to introduce some new mixed, processed, and artificial kinds of stuff, the equation may sometimes become GOOD = BAD !
For example, candy and ethylene glycol taste good but are quite bad for the health. The same can happen more surreptitiously if, for instance, poultry is fed with intensively selected grain such as wheat and deprived of open, natural space. Such eggs may taste good while being bad for our health.
Another condition may be encountered when a perfectly natural, original and good tasting food cause uncomfortable reactions which could be mistaken for harmful. It happens to an animal or human that has been fed for a long duration with processed and cooked food. It is logical to infer that this phenomenon is not directly due to the ingestion of the perfectly natural food, but to the recirculation in view of the elimination of intoxinating cooked stuff or dairy products previously eaten.
So, if it tastes good but seems to make harm, either it is a non original paleo food or a detoxination reaction is incorrectly taken for harmful. Logically, I see no other possibility, except perhaps that the detox becomes so intense and violent that it may lead to the dead of the individual. Experience shows that is normally never the case for humans as long as no processed and neolithic food are reintroduced during the course of the detox.
Cheers
Francois
When the theory does not explain the experience, then the theory is wrong or unfinished.
We all have a past with junk food that has made more or less damages in our metabolism. A healthy food like eggs can taste good but makes harm because the body is not able to handle properly the antinutrients or other harmful substances contained in this food. For instance, because of a compromised digestive system. Food instinct does not seem to be able to take into account some of these personal conditions. After all, this is a new situation for it : Our paleo-ancestors did not have a past of cooked junk food eater.
Not to mention also that our food instinct can easily be fooled by modern food, like our big hen's eggs.
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When the theory does not explain the experience, then the theory is wrong or unfinished.
No theory is the ultimate truth. But what I took great lengths to unsuccessfully try to explain you is so far the theory that best explain the facts observed during more than 40 years of experiments with thousands of persons and animals (mice, cattle, pigs and poultry). You stick to your analytical approach in a conventional nutritionist way, which leads to inextricable complications and contradictions.
A healthy food like eggs can taste good but makes harm because the body is not able to handle properly the antinutrients or other harmful substances contained in this food. For instance, because of a compromised digestive system.
This statement isn't exactly what is observed. Ok, the taste may still be good, but there are others subtle feelings such as for example a slight nausea warning you to stop eating the stuff or not to eat it at all.
Food instinct does not seem to be able to take into account some of these personal conditions.
Yes it is. But then you have to eat 100% raw, instinctively, with a sufficient choice of “paleo quality” foodstuff including meat or seafood or eggs everyday. Of course, one has also to be wary of modern varieties of fruits, plants and even animals. It seems few people are able to do that.
Cheers
Francois
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Ok, I kinda idiot. Ive searched the stickies and now this thread and still dont know what forms of raw meat are unsafe to eat. Commercial pork is chalk full of parasites, correct? I think I remember seeing somewhere that deer is as well. Is there any data on the number of infections gotten per year from meat born parasites? How about some papers from the science journals on this topic?
Sorry if this has been talked about before
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I've never noticed a problem with parasites. That is not to say I've never had one, but I never noticed any negative symptoms. I haven't eaten raw commercially raised pork, but have eaten raw pastured pork. Also elk and other wild game meats, and I have eaten commercially raised beef raw before. Posting with people on these forums, it's just not much of an issue, this parasite thing. If you're really scared you can freeze meat for a week or so, that supposedly kills parasites. You can also sear it if it's a whole cut, or marinate it in acid like lemon juice. I found this to improve the taste of raw poultry but not red meat, it's good on seafood as well. Good luck.