Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: Poncho on June 28, 2013, 01:02:38 am
-
I have many thoughts on this topic.
I am not asking because I don't have any idea,
I'm asking because I would like more opinions, opinions from people in other countries etc.
I'm also not saying that I know the answer,
But I am saying that I'm sure you don't KNOW the answer either haha
Just discussion please, I have a lot of interest in this.
No one knows, all we can do is think and talk and put things together to help us progress.
-
In the general population people tend to be afraid of bacteria and parasites.
They also think that:
animal fat is going to cause a heart attack.
red meat causes colon cancer.
a lot of protein will cause kidney damage
-
But all of the medical sites posting garbage about it.
They have all of these made up 'facts' painting a really false picture for people.
They've gotta know better, dont they?
Then there are they people who go on these forums and claim to have gotten really sick blah blah blah from raw meat.
That's gotta be bullshit. Cause I mean I've eaten raw a few times daily for about 6 months now.
I started off very ill, now I get complimented on my radiant skin.
I am only going up, slowly but surely.
All of this controversy has had me afraid, because it all seemed so deliberate.
Like someone has been planting the weird evidence that would lead people to believing such garbage.
But now I'm wondering if maybe people here in canada are just misinformed as a whole?
So maybe there is hope, if there is a teacher?
I'm confused, haha.
-
also, a very good example of the weird seemingly maliciously fabricated evidence that leads people away from health:
http://www.eatingwell.com/blogs/diet_blog/4_celeb_diets_to_avoid (http://www.eatingwell.com/blogs/diet_blog/4_celeb_diets_to_avoid)
-
But now I'm wondering if maybe people here in canada are just misinformed as a whole?
Of course they are misinformed, but it aint just canada, it's pretty much everywhere
-
Because Raw Paleo is a diet - not a religion.
-
I never used to be a conspiracy theorist, but I slowly find myself being put into that category because it's so obvious that the government (U.S. I at least know for sure, I guarantee others) knows whats really good for people but are driven by power and money and control. I'll explain:
Since the early 1920's, a German nutritionalist (can't remember her name, sorry, but Gary Taubes talks about her in Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It) noted, upon arriving in America for the first time that "the children are exceptionally large" and also that Americans eat a "disproportionate amount of bread and grains" There was no burger king back then, there were no refined fats, but she still said we were tubby. In the 1970's there was finally declared the epidemic of heart disease by the U.S. govt (all hail) and what do we do about it? Stop eating fat! What has changed since then? Heart disease is now the leading killer of Americans. People are told it's because they won't give up their McD's and other greasy food, but in reality, its all processed foods. Triscuits being pawned off as 100% whole grain and healthy and Dave's Killer Bread (Oh I've been battling my grandma on this one for months) is healthy because he uses grains and seeds only (not true, there are some fishy ingredients on that list). It's because those refined carbs give people a dopamine boost and are as addictive as cocaine. That's not my opinion either. There are a lot of recent studies (Dr. Oz just had one on his show this last month) showing how the same amount of dopamine is released for a cocaine addict as a coca-cola addict. However, I digress.
In light of all these wonderful studies and powerful evidences, what does the government do? They would never admit they were wrong about low-fat diets. No, we have always been at war with Oceania. It's just now they have to say that what helps your heart the best? "omega-3 fatty acids" (all hail). Wait a minute, omega-3's are a fat. But isn't that bad? No, let's never allow that question to be asked and the govt. can still go on being hailed as mighty savior of our terrible disease ridden nation, with all those damn polluters (let's go buy some manufactured cars and plastics) pesticides (let's go to wal-mart for food) and fast food joints (but they are so quick and I'm so tired).
The government WANTS us sick. They are okay with letting plant foods being known as good raw, but they'll also throw out the notion that needing to eat cooked grains is truly going to help you. And every now and then promote the idea that someone somewhere got sick from eating a raw steak and make a HUGE deal about it. Raw vegans? I delivered flowers to a lady not too long ago that was dying of cancer. She and her husband were goat farmers. She had a handful of bumper stickers (memory fails me of their exact wording) that led me to the conclusion she was near vegetarian, if not quite "healthy" by SAD standards. I believe she took the conventional treatment and received radiation and chemo. My heart broke.... So many things going through my head. If only's and but's and how my discontent with the govt can be shown from either two ways by them:
1. They are absolutely the most retarded board of scientists/doctors/leaders to EVER walk the face of the earth in ALL of history. Which lends to just how GREAT (sarcasm) democracy can be.
2. They are playing dumb and want our money, want us sick, want control, while they continue living with the secret power of being able to keep people from enjoying life. Which also shows how great democracy isn't.
Doctors go to school to learn about drugs from other doctors that did the same. They learned from books produced and funded by pharmaceutical companies. Those companies get the "FDA" stamp of approval on their drug for a certain share of the cash, regardless of side effects (huge lists far worse than what you're trying to cure, so much so it's become comical rather than sickening to the average american), the govt also has other branches they maintain (ADA, AHA, USDA, etc.) all promoting the same thing, "eat plenty of grains and make frequent doctor visits." Why can they promote doctors of western medicine so much that have the worst record of medicine in history, far worse than Ayurveda or Chinese medicine, both of which arose from the introduction of processed (cooked) foods.
Too long, didn't read?: People bash raw paleo because they are brainwashed by a government that wants to keep us sick, regardless of their countless failures, our greatest mercies would grace them to plead ignorant, somewhere in the middle would show them pleading greedy, and at the far end, which I can't help but lean towards, hopefully not out of resentment, but out of sheer truth, they would plead sadistic, simply enjoying having the power they have and reveling in the fact that they can control a whole nation of people, constantly getting them to partake in the actions (eating poor food and downing drugs) that continue to make them more sick.
I know, I hate the big conspiracy texts also, but I can't seem to find any other logical conclusion.
-
From the link you posted,
"What’s missing?
Dairy, which is how most of us get our calcium and vitamin D. The Paleo Diet is also low in carbohydrates—and there’s research that shows limiting or eliminating carbs impacts your memory and your mood"
Yet they don't cite the research... hmm...
Anecdotal evidence of people on ketogenic diets (cooked) seem to say their mood and memory are greatly increased.
My mood and memory go down when I have carbs of any sort, more refined being worse, easier to digest not being an issue.
"What’s missing?
If you’re not eating any animal-based products like meat, fish, eggs, poultry or dairy you’ll miss out on vitamin B12—a vitamin your body needs to transform fat and protein into energy, as well as other essential functions. You also won’t get much, if any, vitamin D—and more and more research is showing that adequate vitamin D is important in warding off a host of chronic conditions, from heart disease to cancer."
Umm, Liver contains awesome amounts of vit. d... and we are probably the least deficient people in B12, considering thats mostly what we eat. haha. Yet of course they say "food-born Illness" as to why you shouldn't eat raw meat.
So far 6 weeks of raw meat (including high meat) and I only slightly puked once, though I'm pretty sure that was from alcohol. -v ;D
-
Guys I just got a live blood analysis, it uncovered a lot.
It's very interesting.
I wrote a nice detailed post, read it on my blog.
But the point I wanted to emphasize here, is the amount of parasites in my blood.
Guess how many?
NONE.
Most people typical american dieters have some.
I didn't have a single one.
-
I don't like that the web is full of crazy 'intellectual seeming' madness like this:
Why Are People Still Eating Meat? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkh5rZcA8q4#)
-
Vegans will always bash meat eaters, raw or not. They think they have found the absolute truth but need to survive off supplements. The comments on that video are absurd. "people have no taste receptors for amino acids so that's why meat doesnt taste delicious like carbs" or "humans don't like to kill so we are herbivores"
Those people are so destroyed by their lack of b12 they are irritable and ignorant and can't even use logic. Best to ignore and move on.
-
But theyre wrong.
Its been proven countless times.
It's cool if they want to deny their bodies the proper nutrients, fab, but I'm not okay with them convincing others that it is right.
You know, the follower-type people who really look to others for guidance?
They want help, and instead they receive false information delivered by some passionate lunatic.
-
I agree with you Poncho. Yes, they are wrong. In Aajonus' experience, adding raw meat to raw fruit and raw vegs increases the cure rate of sick people.
I have experienced this myself in healing people.
I'm sad that there are vegan healers. I call them noisy short on knowledge teenagers. When they mature enough and kill enough of their patients they will learn raw paleo diets.
Our time is coming. Soon veganism will be buried by the raw paleo diet tidal wave.
In the future, all healers will know raw paleo diets and the variations in which to cure people.
-
It is very frustrating and saddening Talya. I think the best we can do is continue getting the word out.
GS, I'm not so sure with our current day that raw paleo will become a big thing. Most people I talk to are usually so revolted by the concept they usually say they would rather die. Plus, vegetarianism is usually seen as the pinnacle of health because of the massive media brainwashing.
-
We can do it.
I'm sure of that.
There is enough undeniable proof out there.
It's just going to take persistence and dedication.
Don't ever accept the idea that you should just keep your wisdom to yourself and live your own happy life.
That's insanity, were all too connected for that kind of thing to be possible.
-
I don't mean to be a pessimist and I probably sound like one but I consider myself a realist. The hundreds of people that saw me lose 20 lbs in a little over a month asked me what i did, if I starved myself or something. I said I ate as much as I wanted. Then told them I ate beans, meat, and veggies. First question "no fruit or bread?" I said nope. They almost always said "ill just count calories and eat a little bread" even when telling them I consumed over 2000 calories a day, mostly in fat and protein and that calorie counting was a lie, they still didn't care and would rather eat bread and "exercise it off"
my point is trying to show the world that raw is as wonderful as we've experienced it to be is like trying to show a drug addict that he'd feel better without drugs. It's like trying to tell a child that sex is better than candy or chocolate. The idea of their favorite thing being taken away at the slight chance the new thing is better doesn't appeal. People fear the unknown more than they are intrigued by it. People don't want to face the fact that they believed a lie because they take it too personally and consider it a reflection of their character.
Don't get me wrong, I try to let anyone know that I can, and gauge their reaction before diving in all the way. But this thread is about why people are averse to raw so that's what I'm trying to stick on. Playing devil's advocate. I want my family and friends healthy just as much as myself. It's just I've been here before, making health leaps and people usually respond with "cool pass a beer"
-
Yeah all of that seems to be the same for everyone, I get that.
But then why do we stop there?
It's not the learners that are the problem here, it's the teachers. Us.
Because honestly, the majority of people don't give a shit, right.
But we do,
so we have to learn to teach them in a way that will be effective.
See, we've got the truth on our sides,
it isn't actually possible that we would not find a way to lead others.
People are ALL sick, all of them. (Including us, I think it's going to take at least a few healthy generations going by for us to see health again.) The sicknesses are so unique in each person, which should further prove to them how absolutely poisoned humanity is.
The more videos and articles I read online, the more I see that every type of person is catching on.
People all over the world, scientists, activists, parents, you name it.
The problem is, they are only catching on to pieces of the whole truth.
I've seriously spent weeks and months and now years researching and observing my own symptoms as well as the symptoms of others.
I know that it's only a matter of time before the whole truth gets out, I hope that I'll be around to see it.
-
All we need are business models.
That will get the ball rolling.
-
I think, as it was said by another here, that over time we are the best examples. And yes 'famous' people in the media will help to a great extent. But living as an example is what I am talking about. Losing twenty pounds in a month is great, but your friends don't know whether or not you'll put it right back on, as the majority of dieters do. If you think about who in your life has influenced you the most towards health: physical, emotional and spiritual, it most likely was someone who was vibrant, loving, optimistic, intelligent, kind, caring... as well as healthy looking. My point is, pure presence or the ability to shine as a completely aware individual far outweighs something like a verbal description of a newly adopted diet or lifestyle in influencing others. Something to think about in this world of competing should do's and should not do's.
-
Once I'm healthy, I'm moving to the wilderness.
In the wilderness, I don't expect to be influencing others with my healthy presence.
Seeing as I don't plan on having many 'others' around me. Ever.
I'm trying to spend my healing time wisely
I figured I may as well give it my all while I'm here in the world of technology and sick people.
If that's considered a bad idea, I don't really care, because it feels right.
Even if people don't learn from me now, it doesnt matter, because when they come looking for answers they will be right here waiting.
The internet remembers all.
I think the only damaging thing is going to be all of the grouchy negative people bashing supplements and 'non paleo' ways of helping the body transition to raw paleo.
Our bodies are messed right up.
Generations of damage have been dealt, and certain people's bodies are clearly taking it harder.
People just need help. When the sickness gets into the brain, it becomes much harder to cure. Cooked food really messes up the brain.
It won't be easy, but it has to be done. Just try your best and don't tell people that helping is a waste of time.
Because that's all I'm hearing, a lot of the time.
-
I recognize the stage you are in in this healing and realization process.
I can see that when you become cheerfull in your youtube videos you'll be a youtube sensation for paleo dieters on youtube.
Try to look for that black 70 yr old lady who looks like 30.
Ingers videos are inspiring.
-
Gotta keep in mind that my youtube videos serve a few purposes.
-Documentation of my recovery (Must be accurate)
-Informing others
-Working on my verbal expression (Because I suck at it, but can write just fine)
-Getting vegans to understand that they are just slowing down the recovery of man, but that the raw ones are on the right track in certain ways.
-Being true to all 4 reasons.
I will not fake cheer just to get likes, even though it is very clear to me that would work.
I understand how to manipulate people, it's very simple, I'm just not interested in that.
I want to show everyone how true all of this is, that even a crazy unstable 20 year old girl can see how right it is.
Then they will be able to someday look back on my old videos and see how far I've come.
It will be good, just wait haha. Don't give up on me, I know what I'm doing. My emotions are just all over the map and really messing up my credibility. My sanity somehow remains intact underneath it all.
-
"I think, as it was said by another here, that over time we are the best examples..." "But living as an example is what I am talking about..." "If you think about who in your life has influenced you the most towards health: physical, emotional and spiritual, it most likely was someone who was vibrant, loving, optimistic, intelligent, kind, caring... as well as healthy looking. My point is, pure presence or the ability to shine as a completely aware individual far outweighs something like a verbal description of a newly adopted diet or lifestyle in influencing others. Something to think about in this world of competing should do's and should not do's.
van, well said.
lead through example, not by trying to convince others.
i'm not sure i want some hollywood movie star promoting what i personally chose to do, and how to live... it makes it seem "hokey", like everything else they promote... :D
when we're all the last healthy people alive on this earth, things will be great. gs, no more computer attacks! the stupid shall be punished. let the "youtubers" revel in their moment of popularity... i can't wait until they're gone. they thrive on ignorance, and they mislead the ill informed, without dignity or responsibility.
where's a massive solar flare, when you need one? ;)
-
van, well said.
lead through example, not by trying to convince others.
i'm not sure i want some hollywood movie star promoting what i personally chose to do, and how to live... it makes it seem "hokey", like everything else they promote... :D
when we're all the last healthy people alive on this earth, things will be great. gs, no more computer attacks! the stupid shall be punished. let the "youtubers" revel in their moment of popularity... i can't wait until they're gone. they thrive on ignorance, and they mislead the ill informed, without dignity or responsibility.
where's a massive solar flare, when you need one? ;)
I gained the courage to start raw paleo by watching others eat raw meat on youtube and explain how great it is.
These raw paleo promoting videos really help someone nervous about the transition.
Without the internet, I would not have been able to discover raw paleo.
Without that discovery, I would not have healed from all of my injuries properly.
I was helped, I see the importance in helping others.
I am condensing my helping into a smaller amount of time, so that I can be free to live in nature.
The purpose of life is to help others, you obviously don't agree
Keep on Keepin on, though.
-
i has been brought to my attention in other threads, that my opinion of youtube is "less than popular"... allow me to recant my feelings relating to the site, and offer an apology to those who find it a valuable resource.
i'm very sorry to have ruffled feathers.
i did not intend to offend, or disrespect.
-
Youtube is so big, it's like saying you hate the internet.
If you do, in fact, hate the internet, then you wouldn't be here.
So I just don't understand why you have bad things to say about it?
-
not to carry on, but to answer your question:
it just seems there are better venues. you posted a youtube video of a guy you described as crazy. why get lost amongst people like him? the internet has value, i do not hate it. hence, my being here on this forum. i'm sure i could also find a diet / lifestyle forum that encourages people to eat mcdonalds for every meal. personally, i would chose not to get nutritional data from that site, if i felt the premise was lacking in intellectual substance.
in my opinion, posting to a personal blog, or personal website would only add credibility to your cause. if crazy people reach other crazy people through youtube, maybe posting to youtube is "advertising" to the wrong crowd. after all, who would you be trying to convince? that is why i thought van's memo was "well said". the repeated suggestion that we stop trying, and start being, is something rarely considered for action. it seems a noble notion.
instead of admitting something like, "youtube is so big", maybe concentrate on making yourself "bigger" than youtube.
i offered an apology for being so blatent with my personal viewpoint, and i reiterate, it was not my intention to offend anyone. not just to you, or c_k, but to everyone who has sensitivities i have long since lost, i will make an effort to be more tactful and delicate with my opinions and posts in the future. to act on my own suggestion, i will make the effort to no longer post remarks that are not considered "politically correct", or "insensitve" to varying opinions (outside of my journal).
i will move on now.
-
http://www.radiancenutrition.com/2011/08/19/put-down-that-kale-smoothie-why-you-should-cook-your-food/ (http://www.radiancenutrition.com/2011/08/19/put-down-that-kale-smoothie-why-you-should-cook-your-food/)
Aside from the irrational ignoramuses who bash raw paleo just because it's different; here's a good, brief introductory article as to why people might reasonably 'bash' raw paleo. References are cited, and you can use it as a starting point to do more research, if you want.
-
Woah. Is that ever the craziest thing I have ever laid eyes upon.
What the hell?
I have come to the conclusion that raw organic diets work the best.
By far, raw paleo or raw vegan.
Always raw though. Any cooked diet pales in comparison.
I can see why people believe raw vegan is the best, because it does show great results when perfectly executed.
But cooked? I've never seen great results from a cooked diet.
I had no idea people were still trying to say that cooked was better than raw, haha.
They should probably wake up and get with the times. We know better now.
Thank you for leading me to that exquisite piece of literature.
Very interesting
-
"The invention and continuous development of food treatment has had a substantial, if not major impact on the intellectual, societal and economic development of mankind."
This is true, but in the opposite way that she means it.
-
From that article you posted miles:
Eating raw food has a cost.
Cooking also appears to have a positive effect on net energy in the body. Humans on vegetarian diets exhibit higher reproductive performance when eating cooked food than raw food. Evidence of low energy intake in women eating predominantly rawfood is supported by their having higher rates of amenorrhea or menstrual irregularities than those eating cooked food. In one study, it was found that menstruation was absent in 23% of females of childbearing age who ate at least 70% of their food raw and in 50% of women reporting a 100% raw diet. Although these women were primarily vegetarian, the addition of raw meat to the diet did not change the odds of ovarian suppression. The researchers concluded that women suffered because of their relatively low net energy gain as a consequence of eating their food raw. A nutritional analysis suggested that in traditional communities, a diet of raw wild foods would render survival and reproduction difficult.
I'm sure GS would have something to say about that.
My opinion: it sounds nice but we all know how studies can be skewed to whatever they want to show. If the women on raw vegetarian diets had trouble ovulating, and the addition of raw meat didnt help, I wonder if they considered anti-nutrients that were possibly cooked out for the cooked counter-parts. Nutrition is a big puzzle and if they don't consider the notion that a primarily raw meat diet is better than a primarily raw vegetable for many people, then they will always run into anti-nutrients. Also, I wonder if they included organs or if they just gave the ladies t-bones all day. Was the raw meat healthy/close to wild/grass-fed? Was there enough fat? I doubt they would give the women fat, that causes heart disease so we cant have a study showing the opposite. Sounds like poor dieting all around.
Again, we have an issue of looking for what you want to look for.
-
" Although these women were primarily vegetarian, the addition of raw meat to the diet did not change the odds of ovarian suppression. The researchers concluded that women suffered because of their relatively low net energy gain as a consequence of eating their food raw. A nutritional analysis suggested that in traditional communities, a diet of raw wild foods would render survival and reproduction difficult."
First of all, bahahahaha at the last sentence erhmerhgehrd!
And in re to the first part they better qualify that shit, how much meat, what kind, etc etc. When on a proper, biologically appropriate raw diet, one's body chemistry should balance and harmonize, if that's not happening, you are doing it wa-rong! =p
Listen to your body first, use common sense second and stick with aliments that nurture, pretty simple!
-
"first part they better qualify that shit"
All references are cited you lazy bum: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fallnurses.com%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D8215%26d%3D1299813556&ei=7GLRUaicHOKb0QXxlIDoCQ&usg=AFQjCNF5qHsWc0eGENmX_jYwNKyQ3299MA&sig2=xMAWRowFu60CUOJ3AElvPQ&bvm=bv.48572450,d.d2k&cad=rja (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fallnurses.com%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D8215%26d%3D1299813556&ei=7GLRUaicHOKb0QXxlIDoCQ&usg=AFQjCNF5qHsWc0eGENmX_jYwNKyQ3299MA&sig2=xMAWRowFu60CUOJ3AElvPQ&bvm=bv.48572450,d.d2k&cad=rja)
Do you think their cooked counterparts are putting so much more thought into having the perfect macro-ratios etc? Why is it so much more important for the raw dieters, unless raw food is less nutritious?
Poncho you sound like a religious zealot. How long have you been eating raw paleo; how much evidence have you seen? You are asserting things you cannot possibly know. Go ahead and experiment with your body and research 'alternative' therapies, you will get further than following anything your doctor is likely to suggest, but do not kid yourself that you know things which you do not. For all you know things might start going wrong down the line, and if you cling to faith and beliefs things are going to get much worse than if you just evaluated things rationally. Perhaps things won't 'go wrong', but they just won't go as well as they could have done. It's important to have people who are willing to try things out, like Raw Paleo, so that others have information to evaluate; but you should know that it is an experiment, that you are in poorly charted territory.
Just because the mainstream is ignorant and corrupt, and has things wrong; and x people can see that, it doesn't mean x people have things right either. When most people are ignorant regarding health, it is left to small groups of individuals to research and theorise based on scarce information and experiment on themselves. People only have so much time to try so many things, and if people find something which makes them feel better than before they're likely to be happy to stick with it. That doesn't mean it's the ultimate therapy. Desperate people are easier to please...
-
I was so sick in the body and mind that I was lost.
I spent years trying different diets and different natural therapies, nothing ever brought me back.
My boyfriend was my 24 hour attendant, he suffered in a different way.
Even without physical injuries.
His mind and body changed dramatically, he became just as depressed as myself, if not more.
I was right here in this body watching closely 24 hours a day, as raw paleo began changing it when nothing else would.
My boyfriend dropped the entire 30 pounds of weight he had gained.
The bags (dark and deep) under his eyes that had bothered him daily, were gone within a couple of months. Maybe less
My mother joined me on raw paleo as well, she completely transformed too.
She was receiving compliments left and right about her youthful appearance (which hadnt shown itself in years, before raw paleo)
She had been struggling to lose weight for years, with raw paleo it was easy.
You can call me what you want, but I have done research for hours and days and months.
When you actually look, you will see that the documentation is there.
It is only hidden and overlooked.
Youre just one of the people that are holding it back.
It's strange that you confuse youre own ignorance with me being ignorant.
I'm not religious, I'm just passionate about stopping the suffering that I see every day.
I don't want anyone to have to suffer the way I have, but they will, if the ones who know don't start bringing out the truth.
That article is shit, that's the point.
I can disprove all of the lies woven into it.
Irritating that you believe something so hilariously untrue...
What do you get out of bashing this and telling me that I know less than I think I do?
You couldn't have any idea of what I know. I haven't written much.
Are you a doctor?
-
Oh, this was a fuck up on my part.
I thought that someone else posted that article just to show me the opposition.
I thought it was an absolute joke, honestly.
I read through the article a few times, trying to decide whether or not it was actually written as a joke article.
Then I thought that you were some random guy that came in thinking that the article was actually being considered here.
I was arguing with you, thinking that you were just a little mislead.
I take it all back though, you are in too deep, I do not wish to fight with one of you.
Go live your life with this superior knowledge you've got.
Even raw vegans are healthier than the average people, because of the raw food.
Raw Vegan Diet Makes 70 Year Old Woman Look 40 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q-0o7eAi50#)
-
The article was interesting. I just emailed the author to see if she'd be willing to say which of the references she got each factoid she presented on the differences between raw and cooked meats. Hopefully she'll respond.
-
Eric. Yes, she should have numbered the references and linked them to the text. That would've made the article easier to use.
Poncho, in regard to that video: How do you know it's because of the raw food, and not because of other lifestyle aspects including the variety, quality and freshness of her food? It is fair to consider that the raw aspect might be important, but you do not know. Maybe the raw aspect does have advantages but simultaneous disadvantages.
-
There is such a thing as raw done the right way and cooked done the right way.
What I do know is that it is suicide to go 100% cooked... cooking every single thing including fruit... and all animal food well done cooked... is suicide.
Raw when done wrong has its own pitfalls... see all those idiots eating tiny plates of vegetable salads... see those raw meat eaters who do not expose their meats to the air and culture bad bacteria... eat raw animals mostly protein and not much raw fat. Or keep eating raw dairy but they are lactose intolerant.
There are many pitfalls. Personal teaching is required many times.
-
Because I've seen it a thousand times!
I don't mean to be all sassy and defensive, I'm sorry for that.
The idea of people going down the wrong path because of misinformation just freaks me out.
The wrong path can be absolutely detrimental.
I'm really sure about this, it is entirely undeniable.
The most recent proof I found was yesterday.
I was reviewing videos by a raw vegan on youtube, and I found something remarkable.
She feeds her DOG a vegan diet!
I was blown away as I searched further online and found that dogs actually do well on raw vegan diets.
I decided to look a step further, vegan cat diets.
As cats are considered 'obligate carnivores', I wondered if maybe....
Yep, cats on raw vegan diets.
Doing better than normal cats.
Incredible eh?
That's how horrible what we feed our pets is, that even our cats are so nutrient deprived that going from carnivore to herbivore benefits them!
Thats how much better raw food is...
Could you imagine?
(cats and dogs are supposed to eat meat, I know that. It just blows my mind that they can get healthier than they do on regular store bought food even when they go vegetarian)
I mean, I have known for a while that a raw meat diet really does well for cats and dogs.
I've seen it.
But I never...
Raw vegan cats - cats aint carnivores at all (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL46kl0z1JI#)
-
Yes I've also seen people fail to do it right a thousand times, too.
Thats true.
But the ones that succeed go far beyond anyone eating any form of cooked diet.
-
Okay, I kept looking for vegan cats, and came across this..
My vegan cat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9c4NiPb_Tc#)
We have really messed up this planet of ours.
I have heard of a study that proves that cooked food has done this.
I'm going to go look at it asap, Ill let you know what it says.
-
Vegan cats... ha ha ha.
You won't be able to make the next generation that way.
-
its only because in nature there are only raw unprocessed foods. so if a cat is either in an area with no meat/bugs sources the next step down is eating as much raw vegetable matter as possible. only feral cats would most likely not do as well as domesticated cats seeing as their sources of veggies is way less calorific and would have to be foraged for. domesticated cats are given large portions that are highly calorific, which cats don't have to search out. plus what are these "raw" folks really feeding their animals anyway, I am sure it takes some supplementation and/or grains. cats are not meant to forage all day, they will waste away munching on veggies and fruits, they are meant to hunt for a few hours and rest and conserve energy. anyway its the same for humans, if you want to be raw vegan, you are eating the second best food on the planet, raw unprocessed veggies, and will have to eat more often because you are eating less calorific and less optimal foods. and you are still missing out on the best building blocks for a strong body, with no complicated complete proteins and fats that support brain and all systems in the body.
people are stubborn and they are also crazy and willing to make themselves sick for their convictions. please don't get yourself stuck in a mind that you are going to heal or fix the world, it wont happen, only lend as much energy to the fight that you have, and if that's just enough to heal up yourself and your family, that's fine, but don't get lost in the mix, live a full life outside of what you eat and regardless of your health
-
Yes, listen to Jessica.
As much as I myself would like to heal the world, there are physical limitations. (but we can always dream... maybe why we do charity stuff like write websites and write books and make videos.)
Over dinner, my mother in law was talking about a dear friend with alzheimers... so I asked... are we going on a rescue mission again? She declined. We were already maxed out helping her brother heal from a large kidney cancer tumor.
-
The idea of people going down the wrong path because of misinformation just freaks me out.
If you're freaked out about the possibility of you going down the wrong path due to misinformation, just develop your critical thinking skills, be willing to experiment on yourself and be open to both positive and negative feedback from your body with respect to your experiments.
If you're freaked out about the possibility of others going down the wrong path due to misinformation, stop it. People's eating habits are often based on irrational beliefs and all manner of chemical dependencies, and there's really not much you can do to change them. If someone hits rock bottom and they're open to new ideas, offer them. Otherwise smile, nod and change the subject.
On the topic of cats, I just spent two weeks working at a martial art training camp as co-instructor, and was staying at a friend's house. She had cats, and fed them a largely industrial diet of processed wet and dry cat food. They were so indoctrinated to that poor quality food that when I dropped a piece of liver on the floor for one of them out of pity it wouldn't eat it. It sniffed the liver for a few minutes, then walked away. Humans aren't the only animals that can fall off track with respect to diet.
BTW, my co-instructor's diet was of poor quality also. She was taken aback by the fact I ate nothing but raw organ meats, raw animal tendon and raw animal fat the entire two weeks I was working with her.
-
haha come on!
I'm going to give you a very loose uneducated unknowledgeable example here that I think might open your eyes.
Alright, do you know of when the african americans had zero rights and were treated as lesser beings?
Slavery? I hope so, but I don't know which countries get taught about that. Yeah I am not wise when it comes to history or the worlds activity haha.
Anyways, if they would have all stuck to the mentality "This is just how things are, don't try to change it because you never will", what do you think would have happened?
They fought for their rights, they fought for what they believed in. They fought for the truth.
They were up against all of these hideously ignorant white people who had full control over them.
Eventually, they succeeded.
I believe in this. I believe in mankind. Let me try. Let anyone try.
If we all try our best, someday, we'll succeed.
Because it is right, it is true.
I think theres something to fighting for the truth.
Eventually, it will overcome all else.
Life is so empty when you go through it sick.
No one deserves to live like that, but many do.
I'm completely cool with the idea of trying to change the world for my entire life, and never seeing success.
I know that I will help some people at least, and hopefully what I do will help people someday long after I've died.
What the hell are you even doing if you aren't trying?
goodsamaritan, you're obviously helping if you're healing people haha.
Healing others to the point where you're 'maxed'?
"are we going on a rescue mission AGAIN"?
You're selling yourself short!
If you are helping others, you're changing the world.
Eric, come on. I noticed that my sister's cat wont eat raw meat either.
The only thing I learned from that was that I need to help it.
I felt pity, because I understand that because of us, she doesn't even understand that she wants real food.
The same applies to humans.
It's cool if you want to look the other way, but why would you insist that others do the same?
Let me at least try for a while before I come to the same conclusion.
Any 'trying' will benefit in the long run.
-
I find that diet bashers can be helpful when they provide a different perspective that includes some data, as in the case of the article Miles cited, rather than just assumptions, insults or straw men arguments.
This appears to be the key bit in the article regarding raw diets that include animal foods: "the addition of raw meat to the diet did not change the odds of ovarian suppression" (http://www.radiancenutrition.com/2011/08/19/put-down-that-kale-smoothie-why-you-should-cook-your-food (http://www.radiancenutrition.com/2011/08/19/put-down-that-kale-smoothie-why-you-should-cook-your-food))
This appears to be what she is referring to:
"Vegans had no significantly higher odds of underweight than vegetarians or meat eaters." (Koebnick, C., Strassner, C., Hoffmann, I., Leitzmann, C., 1999. Consequences of a long-term raw food diet on body weight and menstruation: results of a questionnaire survey. Ann. Nutr. Metab. 43, 69–79.)
If so, it would be more accurate to say that the "inclusion" of meat in the raw diets did not change the odds of ovarian suppression, rather than the "addition."
The only meat eaters mentioned in the survey study report were those following "instinctotherapy" diets containing "large amounts of fruits." While it's just a survey, which is possibly the weakest form of dietary study of all, the results fit with what I've seen over the years as the 4 biggest long-term pitfalls of raw diets:
1) undereating
2) not enough starchy foods (accumulating evidence suggests that our Stone Age ancestors ate underground storage organs raw, before the advent of cooking, but there aren't many available in supermarkets today)--especially ZCers or near-ZCers that avoid animal starch as well as plant starch
3) too much sugary fruits or honey (usually sugary fruits) and not enough antioxidant/detoxifying nutrients in the body, like B6, glutathione, Mg, zinc and iodine, to deal with the stress from chronic high sugar intakes
4) not enough organs, connective tissues, bones, blood, fermented foods and other foods commonly eaten in the past but rarely eaten nowadays
The reports I've seen suggest that these are general tendencies of Instinctos (not all), and it seems to stem in part from their emphasis on eating what tastes good to them and often not having much experience with or knowledge of traditional foods that are unpopular today. I suspect that those fruit-heavy Instincto-type raw dieters who eat a very restricted diet that has one of these four problems and who also refuse to get their nutrient levels checked or take any foodlements/supplements are at greatest risk of problems.
On the other hand, one thing the survey report didn't address, which raw vegans and GCB rebut with, is the possibility that some of the self-reported "amenorrhea or menstrual irregularities" could be healthy covert menstruation. At first, that counterargument seemed too convenient to me, but there is some science supporting the possibility (see Periods - They May Be 'Normal', But Are They Healthy?
http://debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com/2009/04/periods-they-may-be-normal-but-are-they.html (http://debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com/2009/04/periods-they-may-be-normal-but-are-they.html))
-
Fascinating blog link Phil. I'm now embarrassed that I bought into the idea that monthly bleeding is both normal and healthy for women.
And Poncho, if you want to proselytize, you're welcome to do that. Just saying that unless the person you're proselytizing to is open to making radical changes, your energy would be better spent on other things.
-
Ah! I knew it.
I'm gonna get really personal here for a second, for the sake of relating to the blog post.
Before the accident, my body was in really good condition.
That special time was always 4 days, very light, and with no pms or cramps
Then came the accident, the body was in very poor condition
that time got super special and one time even lasted 9 days, very heavy, insane pms and debilitating cramps.
Its getting better but its sure taking its time.
When I finally achieve health, maybe itll go away entirely!
Its like you just told me that you put another piece of cheese at the end of my maze.
I'm even more excited to reach the end now, I hope kinda close haha
-
My energy is best spent on doing my best to contribute to helping mankind along in the right direction.
And also squeezing it all into run-on sentences, I'm good at that.
We're just pieces, part of a whole. If you arent serving the whole, youre not too useful.
Not too useful to the world, not too useful to yourself. One in the same.
-
My friend who is a psych major said "PMS is purely a North American phenomenon." I guess in Europe or other parts of the world women don't get bitchy and whiney before their period.
In that blog the lady only talks about plant based raw diets. I don't see how people do it. I'd be hungry all day. I'd have to eat all day long foraging like a cow to survive.
My dogs took to eating raw fairly easily but that's also cause we tossed them chunks of raw meat every now and then so they were used to it. Organs however they were a little slow to take to. It's a common thing for many people's animals to nearly starve out (some peoples dog's not eating for 3-4 days) before deciding that the slab of raw beef in front of them is actually nutritious. Within a week or two, however, they are always jumping and excited at dinner time. If you're curious of the anecdotal evidence of pictures of dogs becoming healthier through a raw diet:
Yet with that present there are still people that believe myths about feeding raw to dogs.
People do not go through life with their brains. They use emotions. People that are unhealthy/overweight/diseased don't look at food as healing/harming. They see it as tastes good/bad. No other category exists. Sometimes an addition is supplemented with that of good=unhealthy/bad=healthy and the principal is carried out in "I ate something healthy so I can treat myself to something like a donut"
It's honestly the same principle that drug addicts have: "I'm - (x is negative state: tired, hungry, angry, lonely, pain, etc.) so I DESERVE [y] (y is something that makes me feel better: donut, sugar, chocolate, cigarette, beer, meth, etc.) And again, you wont convince an addict to not use. They have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.
-
In my humble opinion the worst way to promote raw paleo is by encouraging others to follow our diet. I'm sure none of us can stand the way vegans, vetetarians, paleo dieters, ZCers, etc. CONSTANTLY promote what they're doing as the best and greatest thing for health. So there's no reason we should be doing that to other people.
Although many people know of how I eat, I NEVER encourage others to eat raw paleo. Although I will admit when I first started, like most newbies, I had the weird fixation of wanting to get others to start eating raw too. Now I could care less. I'm very happy to have my diet, supplements, etc. and if other people see I'm getting good results they're more than welcome to ask me for tips (which has happened once or twice). But I gave up trying to get people to eat raw a long time ago. Even when people are discussing their health problems around me I keep quiet unless I'm asked.
It is interesting though how I've progressed on raw paleo. Originally I wanted everyone to eat raw. I talked to people about it, etc. Now I rarely mention my diet unless someone brings it up.
-
Wait, what?
Are you thinking that I was trying to say that I dont understand raw being good for pets?
I know that raw is the way for everyone haha
Animals and people alike. Because we're all animals, I think a lot of the world 'knows' that, but they don't really know. Ya know? haha
ps have you seen the quantities that the healthy raw vegans need to consume daily?
Insane. I like the idea of having enough nutrients in my body to be able to handle missing a meal once in a while.
I beg to differ. People are pretty far gone, but never too far gone.
I hope you've seen on tv what people can overcome.. and I mean, thats just what the tv is showing us.
I've heard of people overcoming crazier things too.
I'm sure a bunch of people on this forum know stories of people overcoming.
Everyones sick and not being taught not to use their brains, I think thats correct.
They need to be woken up. They aren't dead, right? So we can wake them up.
It's obviously going to be difficult, but maybe thats not where you want to help change the world?
There are many ways.
The thought that they will be earth's superman probably leads to a lot of disappointment, and then these people get kinda snappy and not okay with others thinking they can make a difference? I dont know. It doesnt make much sense to me.
No, I wont become wonder-woman. I never thought I would? Thats ridiculous. I want to play my part in fixing the world.
I don't think i'll get credit, or ever see the results with my own eyes, but I am not interested in the fame.
I just want to help.
I'll help by doing as much as I possibly can to educate and turn people's lives around
I've already educated a few people and it feels good. You can see it in their eyes, they are interested.
When they ask questions, you know that they are interested.
Im literally telling people that this is the right way to eat, and then providing so much personal experience and facts that they gain real interest. Everyone starts off defensive, because theyre being told that theyve been doing it wrong.
Then after the explanation, they ask questions, then more and more questions.
Eventually they know enough for me to be sure they are waking up. My job is done once they start waking up, from that point on it's enjoyable.
It's a very slow process, you get a lot of shit, but its worth it if you can wake someone up.
And you always can, because they aren't dead, remember! It just may take a very long time.
It's very counter-productive to go around telling people to stop trying to help.
Lets all help instead of arguing about whether or not we should help.
-
menstration has been a marker of proper endocrine functioning for me. I went for 5 years only have 2 periods, from the ages of 25-30, once I started to figure out I was really having some serious blood sugar issues, and I wasn't just an alcoholic or a binge eater, and as soon as I eliminated root veggies and the carbs came down(while still maintaining a good weight), my menstration started within 2 weeks, and has been on schedule, with the moon, with proper ovulation for 6 months. I can tell my body is changing with this added boost of hormones, I can feel bones healing, my skin getting stronger, softer, clearer. I feel more female then ever, I feel like procreating mentally and physically. Honestly I have been devoid of wanting that for 5 years, absolutely no urge at all, tbh I haven't had sex for 4 because it hasn't been anything id even considered, and when I had the opportunity, intoxicated or not, it was just painful and uninteresting so it didn't happen.
I think the markers of a womens cycle are really important to pay attention to, and the fluxuations of hormones and urges to fornicate come with heightened fertility during cycles. I don't think its proper for them to be overly painful or draining feeling. It should be noticeable when ones ovulating, and just before the actual mensus occurs. These are just the physical aspects of the change in hormonal composition within the body and reproductive system.
I really think that people are still turned off by menstruation due to our cultures. The book "the Great Cosmic Mother" really teaches the history of how womens cycles and traditions have been absolutely marred as a means to disempower .
Its also funny to me, for as much as vegans and health food folks are obsessed with "detoxing" why isn't menstruation though of as this, a great cleansing and renewing of creation.
P.S. I am just saying don't get caught up in it all more then is good for you. We can all participate well in this world if we keep ourselves healthy and lead by example.
-
yes yes I just think (know) that people are being mislead and it is leading them through a miserable empty life that concludes in an untimely death.
I'm a leader type person, thats nothing new.
See the accident happened, and I lost my mind. And with that, my ability to have a healthy body and to help others around me.
That was always my job, to make the good decisions and give the good advice.
I was 17, and I was actually able to help quite a few people.
Only with trivial kinda things like relationships and whatnot, but it was my purpose.
I was sharing not what I knew from my own experience, but what I could figure out.
Now I have all of this personal experience, as well as this incredible knowledge that is not widely known about at all.
Then everyone I know, I look at them and I see everything wrong with them.
Because I spent so much time searching for the answers to my problems, I understand their problems and how to spot them.
I can see where they hold their extra weight, they tell me about all of their problems, I see the massive mistakes they make when they act based on their emotions, ah! I see it all!
The list never ends.
And none of it is real! Well, it's real, but it doesnt have to be.
They arent just genetically programmed to have these issues, like they have been made to believe.
I just think back to grade 10, when my grandpa died of cancer.
And how maybe if I would have been able to learn all of this just a few years earlier, he might still be here.
And then I think of how many people have their family members and loved ones die, and they don't know that there are answers out there!
I feel obligated, to spread the word. To make people know, really KNOW. So that even if they kinda dismiss it, they will think back to what I said when someone they know needs it.
I can think of quite a few instances in my life where this knowledge would have come in handy.
even before my accident, I would have been open to it for sure.
I just wasn't looking for it, so I didn't find it of course.
-
To clarify, and in case there's any misunderstanding, covert menstruation does not mean no menstruation. It means healthy menstruation with minimal or no external bleeding in which most or all of the menstrual blood is reabsorbed and possibly reused by the body and it's apparently the norm among wild primates and at least some traditional HG peoples, if the reports on this are accurate. Modernized humans and captive primates are reportedly the only animals on earth that commonly have overt menstruation. It's interesting and perhaps telling that scientists have not found an agreed-upon biological purpose for overt menstruation (many people assume that it gets rid of toxins, but I have yet to see any science supporting this notion, and this was addressed in the article I linked to in my last post).
To my embarrassment, I also used to dismiss vegan claims re: menstruation. Then it occurred to me that it's annoying when vegans dismiss Paleo and raw Paleo claims without looking them up and I was engaging in a bit of a double standard by not bothering to investigate their claims. I did so and found info supporting the existence of healthy covert menstruation.
There are negative health symptoms that may help distinguish whether one has a truly pathological condition involving amenorrhea vs. a benign or even beneficial phenomenon, some of which I listed in this past post: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/amenorrhea/?action=post;quote=108037;last_msg=108072 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/amenorrhea/?action=post;quote=108037;last_msg=108072)
Vitamin B6 (especially the P5P form) has been reported to reduce symptoms of pathological amenorrhea, PMS, morning sickness and menopause (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/934.html, (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/934.html,) http://www.terrytalksnutrition.com/weekly-articles/2012/04-27/the-life-saving-value-of-pyridoxal-5-phosphate-p5p-and-magnesium, (http://www.terrytalksnutrition.com/weekly-articles/2012/04-27/the-life-saving-value-of-pyridoxal-5-phosphate-p5p-and-magnesium,) http://tinyurl.com/mk4ugmu (http://tinyurl.com/mk4ugmu)).
Preliminary evidence found that vitamin B6 restored menstruation and normalized hormone levels in three women with amenorrhea who had high prolactin levels.
Prolactin is a hormone that may be elevated in some cases of amenorrhea. A preliminary trial of 200 to 600 mg daily of vitamin B6 restored menstruation and normalized prolactin levels in three amenorrheic women with high initial prolactin levels; however, 600 mg daily of vitamin B6 had no effect on amenorrheic women who did not have high prolactin levels.124 A number of other small, preliminary trials have not demonstrated an effect of either oral or injected vitamin B6 on prolactin levels,125, 126, 127, 128, 129 and they also have reported inconsistent effects on restoring menstruation.130, 131, 132 Larger, controlled trials are needed to better determine the usefulness of vitamin B6 in amenorrhea. http://www.vitaminsource.com/Products/7029-coenzyme-active-b6-caps-50mg-wp5ppak.aspx (http://www.vitaminsource.com/Products/7029-coenzyme-active-b6-caps-50mg-wp5ppak.aspx)
Raw animal foods, especially raw organs, are a reportedly a good source of B6 (http://www.keeperofthehome.org/2008/07/the-health-benefits-of-eating-raw-meat.html (http://www.keeperofthehome.org/2008/07/the-health-benefits-of-eating-raw-meat.html)). Dr. Terry Wahls uses both raw meats and organs and B6 supplements (probably the highly bioavailable P5P form) in successfully treating her MS.
Since overweight is a far more common issue among the general population than underweight and since it has been shown that B6, which is found in raw animal foods, can remedy pathological amenorrhea, the focus of the critical article on raw diets seems a bit off target. The more important risk appears to be not getting enough of certain important nutrients, such as B6, by overly restricting the diet. Not only does cooking not help with obtaining sufficient B6, it reportedly makes it more difficult.
-
Vitamin B6
Roasted Beef: 0.5mg 27%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7387/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7387/2)
Raw Beef: 0.6mg 30%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7491/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7491/2)
Pan fried beef liver: 1.0mg 51%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3470/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3470/2)
Raw beef liver: 1.1mg 54%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2)
Energy availability in raw vs cooked meat & tubers:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19732938 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19732938)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228431/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228431/)
Taurine:
"Robert Backus DVM, PHD of the Dept. of BioSciences of the University of California agreed with Dr. Hassan PHD microbiology (North California)in that taurine can be heated in hydrochloric acid up to 110 o C (262 oF) for 24 hours without substantial destruction. This was what author, Ann Martin (Protect Your Pet) found out when she sent her questions out to these biologists. "
http://www.msdivine.net/felinebeauty/taurine.php (http://www.msdivine.net/felinebeauty/taurine.php) (Best source I could find on this... No studies available on pubmed etc..)
-
Somehow, in healing practice I find those minute difference in numbers to be false.
Raw beef experienced by my driver opens up his small blood vessels and makes blood through them flow again. Cured 4 years of erectile dysfunction.
-
Did you first try feeding him the same food, but appropriately cooked?
-
If those numbers are accurate, the difference is small, but it's still in raw's favor, not cooked. Also, Dr. Wahl's recommended raw meats and organs because heat damages omega 3 fatty acids, which is widely reported (http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/fats/how-cooking-affects-omega-3-fatty-acid.html#b (http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/fats/how-cooking-affects-omega-3-fatty-acid.html#b), http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cooking-omegas/#axzz2XsySnTVP (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cooking-omegas/#axzz2XsySnTVP)) and it also damages glutathione precursors according to Dr. Chris Masterjohn (The Biochemical Magic of Raw Milk and Other Raw Foods: Glutathione, http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/fats/how-cooking-affects-omega-3-fatty-acid.html#b (http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/fats/how-cooking-affects-omega-3-fatty-acid.html#b)).
I wonder where this notion that B6 is particularly sensitive to heat comes from? Here's another instance where this claim was made: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/need-raw-meat-for-b6/?action=post;quote=29628;last_msg=29628 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/need-raw-meat-for-b6/?action=post;quote=29628;last_msg=29628)
Thanks for the data, Miles. It helped me realize that the more important connection of B6 to raw foods is probably not in the B6 levels of the foods themselves, but the B6 level in the body. I read before that B6 helps the body protect itself against oxidative stress from cooked foods, and I found more on it:
a unique form of vitamin B6 can help prevent the formation of advanced glycation end products (AGEs) and has been shown in laboratory and clinical studies to help avert complications of diabetes such as neuropathy, retinopathy, and kidney damage. Known as pyridoxamine, this novel form of vitamin B6 offers critical protective benefits not only for individuals with diabetes, but for everyone seeking to prevent many of the deleterious effects of aging.
This may help explain why certain people like me report more benefits from raw foods than others, like Miles perhaps. I'll make a wild guess that his B6 status is probably better than mine. This is an example of how diet bashers can be quite helpful in revealing why certain people do better on a particular dietary approach than others. Thanks Miles!
If B6 really does help protect against damage from cooked foods, I wonder why I don't recall coming across this connection in the past (is it just my bad memory? :P ) and why B6 was so little discussed in this forum until I started blabbering about it? It's an interesting mystery.
Here's some more info suggesting benefits to raw:
Raw human breast milk was found to be superior to pasteurized: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1714023/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1714023/)
Cooking temperature
"This is not a can of worms I've opened on WHS yet, but I think cooking temperature is a significant factor in health. Gentle cooking methods preserve nutrients, form fewer potentially damaging compounds such as advanced glycation end-products, lipid peroxides and heterocyclic amines, and do not increase the energy density of foods. In diabetics, a diet composed of gently cooked foods increases estimated insulin sensitivity, improves glucose control, and substantially decreases markers of inflammation, compared to one composed of similar foods cooked by higher-heat methods (7, 8 ).
Stephan Guyenet on Cooking temperature in What Causes Insulin Resistance? Part VI
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2012/01/what-causes-insulin-resistance-part-vi.html (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2012/01/what-causes-insulin-resistance-part-vi.html)
I do cook some of my food and I do so in part to avoid one of the biggest potential pitfalls of raw diets in today's world--undereating. Most dieters are trying to lose weight, rather than maintain or gain it, so it's an issue for a minority of "dieters", but it can be a very important one. Even overweight people could potentially be impacted by it if their diet is severely restricted and undereating results in not getting enough of certain important nutrients. Paul Jaminet has discussed the nutrient angle (macro as well as micro) quite a bit.
-
WHya re people bashing raw paleo?
who cares!
Most people will perish as this world burns at the hands of the poisons of the kingdom of Satan.
And I say good riddens. While the sheeple die and become extinct the elite of this world who understand true health such as ourselves will survive and thrive.
The solution is not to convert the idiots but to create as many of the free people of the future as possible.
This will have to include polygamy of course to create any reasonable amount of change in the future.
A more powerful raw animal food community in america will also be necessary if we are to keep our children out of the filthy blood and cum stained hands of child protective service who we know will not accept raw paleo families.
-
Oh lord I didn't even consider what cps would think of parents feeding raw bacteria filled high meat.
-
They would consider giving high meat to your child ample reason to kidnap them and put them on 7 psychotropic medications (the national average for kids kidnapped by cps) in a some sickos rape dungeon.
If they found out about high meat that kid would be gone a second.
Having children is no longer safe in america folks, get with the program. The only way to fight this is with a strong nationwide raw paleo movement which i unfortunately dont see happening.
For example america has a very strong "patriot" movement. A veteran whose wife just birthed his child had the child instantly kidnapped and the only excuse was that he was part of an organization caled oathkeepers.
Well word spread very quickly throughout the patriot community and due to the communities extreme popularity in America cps was forced to return the child.
This is the kind of thing we need for raw paleo parents.
-
Vitamin B6
Roasted Beef: 0.5mg 27%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7387/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7387/2)
Raw Beef: 0.6mg 30%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7491/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7491/2)
Pan fried beef liver: 1.0mg 51%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3470/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3470/2)
Raw beef liver: 1.1mg 54%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2)
Energy availability in raw vs cooked meat & tubers:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19732938 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19732938)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228431/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228431/)
Taurine:
"Robert Backus DVM, PHD of the Dept. of BioSciences of the University of California agreed with Dr. Hassan PHD microbiology (North California)in that taurine can be heated in hydrochloric acid up to 110 o C (262 oF) for 24 hours without substantial destruction. This was what author, Ann Martin (Protect Your Pet) found out when she sent her questions out to these biologists. "
http://www.msdivine.net/felinebeauty/taurine.php (http://www.msdivine.net/felinebeauty/taurine.php) (Best source I could find on this... No studies available on pubmed etc..)
not sure what you are trying to say here. I hope more pro cooked food propaganda isnt infecting the boards again.
There could be more b6 in cooked food but it will be much less utilizable by the human body.
Its the same concept as having one worker thats completely healthy vs 2 workers in wheelchairs.
You are going to have more workers with the wheelchair option but if you go with the healthy guy you will get much more out of that one person than the two damaged people.
QUALITY OVER QUANTITY
Nutrients work in the exact same way. Do you understand what I am saying here? Il try to explain better if not.
-
It's a shitty time to be an American for sure. Not only that, I'm am educator soon to be involved in the public schooling system. Hopefully I can help some messed up kids.
I was thinking the exact thing about that cooked v raw thing. The nutrients are still there, but are they bioavailable? I know cooking vegetables (broccoli for sure) locks in the nutrients and limits bioavailability. I could find a source when I get to my computer if people can't google raw vs cooked broccoli. The nutrients are only extractable in a lab. Why do we magically think meat is different?
-
I do cook some of my food and I do so in part to avoid one of the biggest potential pitfalls of raw diets in today's world--undereating.
I'm not sure I follow. What does eating raw have to do with undereating? Isn't that one of the things the anti-raw pushers promote? That we can't get enough calories from raw foods?
If you can get a hold of beef fat, you can eat plenty of calories. At 200 calories per oz, I eat 7.5 oz daily for 1,500 calories daily just from fat. I also eat aprox. 1 lb (15 oz) beef chuck roast daily for another 550 calories, putting me at a little over 2,000 calories. Plus I eat various fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds.
The point I'm making is we can get plenty of raw calories if we have access to the right foods.
-
I'm not sure I follow. What does eating raw have to do with undereating? Isn't that one of the things the anti-raw pushers promote? That we can't get enough calories from raw foods?
If you can get a hold of beef fat, you can eat plenty of calories. At 200 calories per oz, I eat 7.5 oz daily for 1,500 calories daily just from fat. I also eat aprox. 1 lb (15 oz) beef chuck roast daily for another 550 calories, putting me at a little over 2,000 calories. Plus I eat various fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds.
The point I'm making is we can get plenty of raw calories if we have access to the right foods.
I also do not understand how eating raw could lead to undereating. Since I got my last meat package a week ago I've been eating about two kilos of meat plus I would say about 200 to 300g suet per day.
-
I'm not looking for an argument, just sharing my experience and reporting what I've seen to Miles to try to help explain that I am not a 100% raw purist or dogmatist and think I can understand some of what he's sharing and still also see great value in raw foods. I don't see it as an absolute either-or choice between 100% raw vs. 100% cooked in every single case for every individual in every circumstance. I'm also hoping this forum will continue to allow some alternative views and not go the way of silencing or ridiculing of all dissent. I wouldn't want it to become like 30BAD in that.
I have access to the foods mentioned and I find I when I'm full on raw foods I can eat still more if I cook some. This fits with the claim of many rawists that obese people can lose weight best on a raw diet, which matches what I've seen from people's reports in this forum. It's a great strength of raw diets, as most people go on a diet at least in part to lose excess body fat. I think it's actually also a big concession by promoters of the coctivore hypothesis that rawists lose excess body fat more successfully. Normally, this would be seen as a reason to do a diet rather than to not do it.
-
WHya re people bashing raw paleo?
who cares!
Most people will perish as this world burns at the hands of the poisons of the kingdom of Satan.
And I say good riddens. While the sheeple die and become extinct the elite of this world who understand true health such as ourselves will survive and thrive.
The solution is not to convert the idiots but to create as many of the free people of the future as possible.
This will have to include polygamy of course to create any reasonable amount of change in the future.
A more powerful raw animal food community in america will also be necessary if we are to keep our children out of the filthy blood and cum stained hands of child protective service who we know will not accept raw paleo families.
I think that if you knowingly let the world die because it lacks the knowledge that you have,
you are actively killing yourself.
Maybe I'm wrong, but you should probably reconsider your proclamation there, just to be sure.
I think the whole 'every man for himself' kinda attitude is a critical ingredient in the formula for the poison that keeps humanity going in the wrong direction.
Just because you know how to live a superior life, doesn't mean youre an elite being. It means that you know more. If you don't help others, what is the purpose of you?
-
This fits with the claim of many rawists that obese people can lose weight best on a raw diet, which matches what I've seen from people's reports in this forum. It's a great strength of raw diets, as most people go on a diet at least in part to lose excess body fat. I think it's actually also a big concession by promoters of the coctivore hypothesis that rawists lose excess body fat more successfully. Normally, this would be seen as a reason to do a diet rather than to not do it.
This is my experience. Specifically, if I eat cooked foods, I do not recognize "fullness" until I have overeaten. For years, this was diagnosed as binge-eating disorder. When I stick to raw foods, and I never overeat. Other symptoms of binge-eating disorder, such as obsessive thoughts about food, are absent with RPD. I think that most of my health improvement has been due to the elimination of sugars and other neolithic foods, but there is a discernible improvement in other symptoms (like arthritis, diabetes, ease of digestion, and overall energy levels) when I eat strictly raw paleo.
As far as "people" bashing raw paleo, I say, "Let 'em!" Beware of becoming a counter-basher; that would be hypocritical.
-
People dont want to hear the truth and dont want to be helped.
WE must accept that most people on this earth will die at the hands of the luciferian cabal.
After accepting that we can realize the true path to victory which is through the people of the future.
Imagine if every male on this board had 20 or 30 kids. Imagine what kind of effect that will have on the world in a couple of generations if all of the males in those families have 20 or 30 kids.
Do the math and you will see that converting people is a huge waste of time compared to raising children because over 99 percent of them dont want to hear it.
The mormons didnt get to where they are by converting people. They got to where they are through massive birth rates only possible through polygamy (never would have happened through monogamy and especially not through polygyny) and thats why it is illegal.
the raw paleo dieters are the elites of this world because as I watch all those around deteriorate and suffer i see myself and those who live like my thriving. We are the ones who have what it takes to survive the assault being inflicted upon humanity right now. THis makes us the definition of elite and we will be the ones to carry our genes into the future abnd the greater the extent to which we do that the more successful we will be. Converting people is a huge waste of time compared to this in my opinion.
Most of hamanity is already lost their conditioning is scientific and perfect. Those few of us who it does not work on are mutants in terms of rest of hamanity and we must pass on the genetic code of the free men of this planet as the death rate and infertility rate of the sheeple continues to skyrocket.
We must take advantage of the death of the sheeple and replace them in the future.
The mystery schools have a saying about this, "let the dead bury their dead". Although these are the most evil people on our planet they are also some of the smartest and you cant help but agree with a lot of what they are saying when you read their writings.
-
Please note that my point is not that you should not tell new people about raw paleo diet.
My point is only that theres is no use in wasting your time with people who simply want to argue. If they want to bash raw paleo let them.
You aint seen nothing yet though.
If raw paleo ever becomes truly big you will see the brightest minds in the disinformation business begin to enter the field of discrediting the raw paleo diet and what you are seeing now from durianrider or others like him will seem like a joke.
-
on the topic of overeating one raw foods.
I eat A LOT less on raw than I did with cooked, probably half the amount. remember the giant plates of meat and starches and sauces and everything I used to eat when eating cooked and I was still always hungry and still very skinny.
Now I probably eat less than half of what I ate by weight and am always satisfied with very little food. On top of that im not extremely skinny anymore and look very healthy in terms of my weight. Looking at pictures of my skinny days is kind of scary lol.
It may seem like im undereating compared to the old days but my body is very happy. I think you just need a lot less food when it raw because it is so much more bioavailable.
-
People dont want to hear the truth and dont want to be helped.
WE must accept that most people on this earth will die at the hands of the luciferian cabal.
There are quite a number of people on this mindset.
-
Just because all of the good people I personally know (family and friends mostly) are ignorant and hideously misinformed, doesn't mean Ill willingly let them die at my feet.
Thats a little twisted, dont you think?
About the only concept modern human has shared with me, that I believe in more than ever, is being a good person.
Helping others, not letting someone suffer just because they push help away with their deeply bred shitty dispositions.
The more someone fights me about raw paleo, the more I know they need it.
I'm not saying random strangers, I mean my loved ones.
What kind of selfish bitch would I be not to help whoever I can to know what I know?
And it is very true, that people hate being told new things.
That doesn't matter. It's not their fault that they are programmed like that.
The way I see it, I know better.
So if I can't change them, their failure is my own fault.
People are like computer games (grade 4 computer games), you know the mystery solving adventure games? Confusing, but ultimately doable.
You might have a very hard time solving the mystery, you will probably have to try it quite a few ways, but if you don't just get angry and quit, youll figure it out.
Cause its a computer game. And honestly, there are only so many ways to do it.
It doesnt take a genius here, it just takes a creative person to persevere.
-
Good luck. Maybe you will do better than me but iv been at this for years and found that trying to help someone who doesnt ask for your help will only make them hate me and probably make them even less likely to take any advice I give them.
That being said there are plenty of people who do ask for my help and in those cases I am extremely happy to do anything I can. My advice is to focus on those people.
-
Just because all of the good people I personally know (family and friends mostly) are ignorant and hideously misinformed, doesn't mean Ill willingly let them die at my feet.
Yes, keep on going as you can humanly can.
I keep doing that.
See my latest case. Kidney cancer tug of war with the medical idiots.
http://www.myhealthblog.org/2013/07/02/kidney-cancer-update-the-scare-of-votrient-lentin-plus-high-energy-breathing-difficulties-vitamin-d-and-omega-3-deficiencies/ (http://www.myhealthblog.org/2013/07/02/kidney-cancer-update-the-scare-of-votrient-lentin-plus-high-energy-breathing-difficulties-vitamin-d-and-omega-3-deficiencies/)
-
Have you ever helped someone who didnt want your help and was argumentative with you initially about the raw paleo concept?
-
Have you ever helped someone who didnt want your help and was argumentative with you initially about the raw paleo concept?
Oh yes, there are always people like that. Such as they don't want to eat this or that, or their tummy aches on this or that. You just work with them to see what will work, what is passable, what the compromises are. In this case I am shoving in raw fish or ceviche fish because this guy can't or won't eat even seared beef. He likes his rice so I give him organic rice and tell him to make porridge for ease of digestion. Healers need to be flexible.
And some you need to give up on.
-
Have you ever helped someone who didnt want your help and was argumentative with you initially about the raw paleo concept?
Oh yes, there are always people like that.
This doesn't make sense to me. These people who do not want your help... what brings them to you in the first place? Do their loved ones drag them in?
-
Poncho, I just wanted to say I love your mindset! That is how I think too... it needs creativity to help others! And that makes so much fun when you really go for it! Very challenging. But it sure is possible. What you need though, is so much love. Love makes you creative. I use this in my family all the time. And patience!
I 100% believe we can help the ones around us. We might not see the results, at least not soon, but I very much believe it has an impact. Because this raw paleo diet is just amazing.
Just never get upset if things do not happen on your pace. ;) Great stuff to learn!
I think GS has a great way to think about it too. Be happy about every little change in the right direction! Never demand perfection from others, only from yourself. That is what will give you power, too.
My parents do far from perfect... but they do way better than years ago. And you can see it on them. They look way healthier now, and their mental state is better too. My "hubs"/best friend does great too, he looks great and eats way better now. Not perfect but way better! And you can really see it.
I always tell, ditch the crap, and add in lots of seafood, preferably raw, but any seafood is great. Add wild edibles. Etc. Step by step. :) And all the way long they see me drink raw fishhead smoothies... eating about everything raw.. having awesome energy and happiness. Daddy says to me, Inger I will try to do better, step by step! I say, great dad! If you do next step I promise I will stop painting my toe nails (he thinks this is very sinful) and he thinks that is a great business! LOL I sure would do it for him if needed. It is not that important to me. ;) But he has to go first..lol
-
Yes! Youre the best!
Thank you Inger, haha.
I have found that others are very slow in their transitions so far, but it is true it satisfies me nonetheless!
I just need to know that people are trying. I want them to feel the benefits that I have.
The benefits give life a whole new meaning, I find.
Everything feels valuable and worthwhile now, its great!
The more I heal, the more my anger and sadness goes away. Soon I will be just love.
I really didn't think id ever get to say that. I thought I was doomed.
This is what everyone needs.
When you take the subways in Toronto, it is filled with posters saying "Are you depressed? Try this medication" and "Are you feeling sad? Join this study and test out these new anti-depressants for us!"
A lot of people are on anti-depressants and the numbers are just growing.
Somethings gotta change or I'm going to end up surrounded by zombies.
-
Im glad to see other people are able to help others. Maybe its the worst for me because im in new york city. People here are evens cared of raw milk. Theyre all a bunch of big babies. Its one of the worst cases of it in the world. People here do not live in reality at all so are very hard to talk to.
-
I know Poncho how scary to be surrounded by zombies. I spend so much time on free counseling on Psychiatric Revolution forum on Facebook and I meet lots of prescribed drugs addict people
-
Things will get better. The Weston Price and Paleo diets are growing very fast, sushi bars are popping up all over the place, and the raw vegan diet is growing too. All of these factors will lead people to a raw paleo diet. We just have to persevere. All you younger people have no idea how much has changed (as far as dietary trends) in the last 12-15 years. The only raw diets that people really talked about back then were raw vegan diets. Aajonus was out there, but few raw foodists listened to him. Instincto was out there too, but VERY few people outside of France were really aware of it.
Believe me, things have been getting continuously better now for years. Have faith.
-
I doubt it. More and more people also seem to be going in for more heavily processed diets. It would not surprise me at all if most humans end up eating some laboratory-processed gunge made from hydroponic farms.
-
I doubt it. More and more people also seem to be going in for more heavily processed diets. It would not surprise me at all if most humans end up eating some laboratory-processed gunge made from hydroponic farms.
Well, after this week I've noticed that this one little town I'm visiting has the most actively ignorant inhabitants I have ever met.
I realized that if there are so many here in this small area, the world must be jam packed with em.
These ones may have to just be washed out by a synthetic food wave.
Maybe it would take a hell of a lot of time and energy to change them.
However it goes down, it seems that times are really changing.
I'm just a kid really, but I listen.
I have heard older people all of my life just melting down about how fast the world is changing.
And that "in their day" everyone could smoke on planes and the oh so terrible healthy living movement was unheard of.
I think were slowly but surely progressing.
-
I doubt it. More and more people also seem to be going in for more heavily processed diets. It would not surprise me at all if most humans end up eating some laboratory-processed gunge made from hydroponic farms.
Sadly, I think you're probably right, Tyler, and the news in recent years supports you on this:
Eight Ways In-Vitro Meat Will Change Our Lives
http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/11/17/eight-ways-vitro-meat-will-change-our-lives/ (http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/11/17/eight-ways-vitro-meat-will-change-our-lives/)
First Animal-Free In Vitro Meat Burger is Ready for Debut
http://laist.com/2013/05/14/in_vitro_meat.php (http://laist.com/2013/05/14/in_vitro_meat.php)
Japanese Make "Delicious", Nourishing Steaks From Human Feces :( :o l)
http://tinyurl.com/64hc4jw (http://tinyurl.com/64hc4jw)
Hydroponic Meats Inc
http://www.manta.com/c/mm3pt1k/hydroponic-meats-inc (http://www.manta.com/c/mm3pt1k/hydroponic-meats-inc)
Sure, there will be a growing minority of folks who will revert back to healthier, more traditional ways of eating, but the massive tide toward more and more processed junk foods is sweeping across the globe and inundating the last surviving pockets of traditional societies and it is celebrated by governments, corporations, most scientists and gullible citizens as "progress". They march gladly to their own destruction and some exponents attack anyone who doesn't march to this drum as engaging in "paleofantasies."
-
Sadly, I think you're probably right, Tyler, and the news in recent years supports you on this:
Eight Ways In-Vitro Meat Will Change Our Lives
http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/11/17/eight-ways-vitro-meat-will-change-our-lives/ (http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/11/17/eight-ways-vitro-meat-will-change-our-lives/)
First Animal-Free In Vitro Meat Burger is Ready for Debut
http://laist.com/2013/05/14/in_vitro_meat.php (http://laist.com/2013/05/14/in_vitro_meat.php)
Japanese Make "Delicious", Nourishing Steaks From Human Feces
http://www.dailytech.com/Japanese+Make+Delicious+Nourishing+Steaks+From+Human+Feces/article21932.htm (http://www.dailytech.com/Japanese+Make+Delicious+Nourishing+Steaks+From+Human+Feces/article21932.htm)
Hydroponic Meats Inc
http://www.manta.com/c/mm3pt1k/hydroponic-meats-inc (http://www.manta.com/c/mm3pt1k/hydroponic-meats-inc)
Sure, there will be a growing minority of folks who will revert back to healthier, more traditional ways of eating, but the massive tide toward more and more processed junk foods is sweeping across the globe and inundating the last surviving pockets of traditional societies and it is celebrated by governments, corporations, most scientists and gullible citizens as "progress". They march gladly to their own destruction and some exponents attack anyone who doesn't march to this drum as engaging in "paleofantasies."
Anyone who is even slightly in tune with their body will not touch that shit.
The ones who do, will suffer.
There isn't even a possibility that the world will somehow start eating like that?
Are you kidding?
Theyre going to start dying from it really quickly, it may be a slow death, and then the smart ones will simply say "told you so" to anyone who was still deciding whether or not to eat doll food.
-
The doll food is only going to help move things along in the right direction more quickly.
-
Are you kidding?
I ain't the one promoting it, just passing on the info.
Theyre going to start dying from it really quickly, it may be a slow death, and then the smart ones will simply say "told you so" to anyone who was still deciding whether or not to eat doll food.
They haven't started selling it yet, but that's part of my point.
I've seen people embrace gruesome death rather than try cooked Paleo, much less raw Paleo, so not much surprises me any more.
-
There's nothing magical about meat from an animal. Animals/plants/humans are just chemistry, and if we understand the chemistry sufficiently, we can make a vat-grown meat just as healthy as the best grassfed meat.
-
I agree with Tyler not even on a scientific basis alone but also a philosophical one. People have this belief of evolution like they can control their adaptation and do what they want. It's very proud and naive. Americans especially care only for hedonism, and indulge in whatever tastes best, without a second thought as to consequences. Humanity (and nature) tends to a state of chaos and destruction, second law of thermodynamics. But somehow weve been lied to, with the idea we can overcome. Those That seek health seek it like sheeple do, listening to media streams of Dr. Oz and the show the doctors and all these other scientifically backed liars.
I'm watching fight club this very moment and find the same desperation in my own life, always do watching this movie. The problem is people don't see this movie as breaking out of being Jack's follower. They see it as a psychological trip. People don't like fight club because you have to take a hit. People don't like raw or any healthy dietary change because of that addictive stuff they need to lose but refuse to even see as their problem. They try to go to support groups (plant based or cooked diets) but eventually Marla singer (health issues) shows up and ruins it.
you know why the first rule of fight club was not to talk about it?
-
Whaaaat?
Who has told us that we can overcome anything?
I havent been told that, quite the opposite actually.
I said I would overcome, I have been saying that for a long while now.
And no matter how many people doubted me, I didn't quit.
Now I'm almost a healthy human being again,
I was told I wouldnt be.
I'm saying now that anything good is possible.
I guess you can get in line if you want to be one of the people with no faith in anything.
Because there are many of those.
Its a little melodramatic to be saying the world is doomed.
As if human stupidity could destroy planet earth? hah.
Just relax and spread the good news, the news of a way of life that is capable of mending this grimy map.
The smart ones left alive after the synthetic food bomb will think back on this news, and then the world can start going in the right direction.
Maybe itll happen like that, maybe it wont. Whatever. Just inform people and learn more and live happily. What else can you do?
-
You sound very zealous, Poncho. lol, I went to an evangelistic christian university, I know how they sound :P The thing is (in my experience) the degree of zeal is runs parallel to the amount that it turns someone off, which ends up being multiplied by the receivers degree of need for that info. You can't scream a 300 lb. diabetic into going raw, even though you could be living proof to have done the same thing in their shoes, losing 150 lbs on raw and stopping diabetes, but that doesn't mean they will care any more.
-
haha maybe Im better in person, but it does work.
I figured out a while ago, that people suck.
I thought there was no hope for them, because no matter how much I talked to them, they didnt budge.
So I thought I hated them all, and that I will never fit into society again.
It was so miserable (I was also really fucked in the head and depressed)
I didnt know what to do.
Then the raw meat fixed me up even more,
I realized what I must do.
Learn as much as I can about raw pale,
and then argue with people until they are forced to see the truth.
It's worked.
I'm a really good arguer when I'm in my right mind, that might have something to do with it.
People also listen to me, and I dont mean that they actually take what Im saying seriously at first, but they do start and remain listening for some reason.
The system I've figured out kinda loosely works like this:
I study the target, I find their weaknesses, then I research how raw paleo will help specifically those problems.
Then I get into it with the target, I bring up raw paleo, we discuss the pros and cons,
then when they start showing a lot of resistance, I pull out their weaknesses that raw paleo will help with (which are all weaknesses)
They hate me for this, they get angry and eventually shut down.
Maybe in a few hours or days, they come back
with a slightly or substantially more open mind
they come with questions, but are sure to say things like "well I could do the vegetables, but NOT that meat! I just couldn't."
I inform and provide examples of my own progress, using my own body as a visual aid.
Then they come back again.
More open than the last time.
This is where I'm at with everyone I've been trying to teach so far (other than my nana, mom, and boyfriend who all eat raw paleo with me. I used my system on them too, they were the first ones. Well, not my nana, she never asked questions really.)
The progress is pretty undeniable.
It's to the point where I can pick out which stage I'm at with each person, because the same lines are used by everyone.
It's like everyone here is programmed the exact same.
I'll let you know how it goes
-
They are all programmed the same. American education has used the food pyramid for a long time. Idk what Canada uses but I know most modem society teaches us grains are the best thing for us and even though they taste bad that just means they are healthy. Then of course meat is poison and raw meat?! Dear god you'll die from bacteria in one meal. Stay as far away as possible and stick to safe grains. They will prevent that mean heart disease. They are all lied To In the same way so it stands to reason their arguments would be the same.
let us know how it goes with those people and be honest if any of them start to get bothered by your presence. I know that happened with me. People want to be accepted before they are held accountable. One of the most amazing speakers I've ever heard said that. Changed my life that moment. It still affects me daily.
-
I think that some will like me and listen to me, and the rest will hate me.
But what I'm telling them makes so much sense, that even if they walk away from me, theyve learned something.
Thats where the trick is I think, finding out exactly which things people really dont like about themselves or their lives, and then teaching them how raw paleo can fix that stuff for them and then more.
I dont mind being the bad guy if it means that people get to live better lives.
I know that I would have wished that someone would have forced health on me, before I was beyond saving. (If I hadnt found raw paleo myself, when I did)
haha okay I cant word that right.
But you know, if you were just a regular american dieter till it killed your body entirely and you were on your hospital bed saying goodbye?
It scares me a lot.
And then that video of that 70 year old raw vegan, when they show her husband and he looks ancient.
Ah. And then she talks about her friends all looking old and wishing that they had followed in her footsteps?
Thats so scary.
I've honestly imagined many times ending up alone in this world, because I outlived my friends and family.
Its so sad.
Its good to save yourself, sure. But whats the point if you end up alone amongst the sickies?
I've never met another raw paleo dieter before.
I think that was another motive of mine, I just found hidden in my subconscious haha.
People need to be taught. End of story.
-
I didn't see Tyler or anyone else say the whole world is doomed (although maybe I missed it). We here certainly aren't doomed, because, like Poncho said, we won't touch the manufactured glops. It's lots of other folks that will be doomed by their own ignorance.
-
I didn't see Tyler or anyone else say the whole world is doomed. We here certainly aren't doomed, because, like Poncho said, we won't touch the manufactured glops. It's lots of other folks that will be doomed by their own ignorance.
They are just infected with generations of nasty misinformation in every form.
They don't deserve to die.
Just because you were able to learn, maybe because youre smarter, and maybe because youre lucky, doesnt mean you deserve a good life any more than anyone else.
-
I agree 150%. I hope you didn't think for a second that I wouldn't.
-
Just checking,
Gotta be sure that the ones with the knowledge arent also selfish.
Because that would really slow things down
-
haha maybe Im better in person, but it does work.
I figured out a while ago, that people suck.
I thought there was no hope for them, because no matter how much I talked to them, they didnt budge.
So I thought I hated them all, and that I will never fit into society again.
It was so miserable (I was also really fucked in the head and depressed)
I didnt know what to do.
Then the raw meat fixed me up even more,
I realized what I must do.
Learn as much as I can about raw pale,
and then argue with people until they are forced to see the truth.
It's worked.
I'm a really good arguer when I'm in my right mind, that might have something to do with it.
People also listen to me, and I dont mean that they actually take what Im saying seriously at first, but they do start and remain listening for some reason.
The system I've figured out kinda loosely works like this:
I study the target, I find their weaknesses, then I research how raw paleo will help specifically those problems.
Then I get into it with the target, I bring up raw paleo, we discuss the pros and cons,
then when they start showing a lot of resistance, I pull out their weaknesses that raw paleo will help with (which are all weaknesses)
They hate me for this, they get angry and eventually shut down.
Maybe in a few hours or days, they come back
with a slightly or substantially more open mind
they come with questions, but are sure to say things like "well I could do the vegetables, but NOT that meat! I just couldn't."
I inform and provide examples of my own progress, using my own body as a visual aid.
Then they come back again.
More open than the last time.
This is where I'm at with everyone I've been trying to teach so far (other than my nana, mom, and boyfriend who all eat raw paleo with me. I used my system on them too, they were the first ones. Well, not my nana, she never asked questions really.)
The progress is pretty undeniable.
It's to the point where I can pick out which stage I'm at with each person, because the same lines are used by everyone.
It's like everyone here is programmed the exact same.
I'll let you know how it goes
Poncho, did you ever stop and think that it was because you had hit rock bottom with your condition that that was why you opened yourself to raw paleo? That happens to most,,,out of desperation people then become willing to do something different, to go against their grain.
Your method that you describe,, You might see if when you're in the midst of your persuasion,, where's your heart? Are you trying to convince the other from your head, or do you really feel their heart and moment by moment truly care for them. Ultimately we're all here not to find raw paleo or any other diet, but to share in the joy of love. Don't want to sound preachy, but I see that as your real opportunity in sharing what you now know with others. For if you are successful, then they will be able come from their heart in sharing with those that they meet and want to help.
-
i look so healthy now that people dont believe that i used be sick all the time looked like it. They think im lying about it or just made it up.
even people who would see me vomiting for no reason and covered in acne and generally sick all the time now also think it never happened an that i was just always healthy and its all in my head.
it just means that lots of people will simply think what they are supposed to no matter what.
its like when i told people years before the economy started to even go bad that we were going to hit a depression and now all those people that i know i told that to say that i never said that before it happened. their brainwashing simply erased their memory of me saying that.
-
i look so healthy now that people dont believe that i used be sick all the time looked like it. They think im lying about it or just made it up.
even people who would see me vomiting for no reason and covered in acne and generally sick all the time now also think it never happened an that i was just always healthy and its all in my head.
Yes, similiar stuff has happened to me, too. really frustrating when people pretend that you were never ill.
-
Poncho,
Dont you know anyone who has been thriving on a cooked diet?
I think its easy to forget that not everyone is sick and going to die because of it.
I know quite some people who have lived untill their 90s and have been healthy and happy.. on a cooked diet.
They did not need any medication or whatever.
I feel like whats wrong with todays people is that they take alot of drugs and alcohol and processed foods with sugars and fats and dont even make a connection between that and their sickness.
I have NEVER in my life seen someone eat raw meat.. let alone raw high meat.. thats just not for me.
One of the biggest promotors of raw paleo is aajonus vonderplanitz and he does not look super healthy to me.
So.. taking all this into account I dont find it weird that people bash raw paleo.. I dont blame them either.
If you want to "convince" people.. then lead by example as some have already suggested.. become living proof. Make people jealous of your radiant health, that will convince them.
I wouldnt listen to a dietician who is fat and has the worst skin ever, thats not weird to understand.
I want to make clear that I have seen benefits from some parts of this diet (raw egg yolks are awesome, thanks GS, I will keep on thanking you) and raw fats aswell. It helped me immediately and in so many ways.
I understand your intentions and I dont think its bad, but remember that alot of raw vegans have the same intentions and seem to think to have found the truth.
People claiming to have the truth, I would be ware of them.. unless they have the looks and energy that I envy.. and keep this for over 10 years.
Dont get me wrong, I used to want to convince people aswell and thinking Ive found it.. I did it as a vegan, I did it on cooked paleo and I did it on raw paleo.. and right now Im thinking of a combi between cooked and raw paleo. Still.. now I question my own thoughts and theory and hope that others can enlighten me with their experience. I try to learn and keep my options open to try new things.
:)
-
See the photos here: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/what-do-raw-paleo-children-prefer/msg66466/#msg66466 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/what-do-raw-paleo-children-prefer/msg66466/#msg66466)
-
I know quite some people who have lived untill their 90s and have been healthy and happy.. on a cooked diet.
They did not need any medication or whatever.
Statistically (in the US), the vast majority of people over 50 are sick enough to have consulted a physician and take medications regularly. Perhaps this is different in your country, or perhaps you are saying that living to 90 implies good health. Whatever your motive in vindicating cooked foods, you can't refute the ancestral health record: modern-day diseases did not appear in mankind until the advent of cooking, agriculture, and domestication. Even short-term surveys implicate the modern (cooked, processed) diet as the cause of most disease.
You cannot convince me that a ticking time bomb is safe and harmless.
-
You cannot convince me that a ticking time bomb is safe and harmless.
Perfectly put.
-
Poncho, did you ever stop and think that it was because you had hit rock bottom with your condition that that was why you opened yourself to raw paleo? That happens to most,,,out of desperation people then become willing to do something different, to go against their grain.
Your method that you describe,, You might see if when you're in the midst of your persuasion,, where's your heart? Are you trying to convince the other from your head, or do you really feel their heart and moment by moment truly care for them. Ultimately we're all here not to find raw paleo or any other diet, but to share in the joy of love. Don't want to sound preachy, but I see that as your real opportunity in sharing what you now know with others. For if you are successful, then they will be able come from their heart in sharing with those that they meet and want to help.
Did I ever stop to think about the obvious?
I have NO interest in your demeaning assumptions.
Have a good day
-
Yes, similiar stuff has happened to me, too. really frustrating when people pretend that you were never ill.
Thats what it's like to recover from a brain injury. It doesn't get better, but I do.
-
Statistically (in the US), the vast majority of people over 50 are sick enough to have consulted a physician and take medications regularly. Perhaps this is different in your country, or perhaps you are saying that living to 90 implies good health. Whatever your motive in vindicating cooked foods, you can't refute the ancestral health record: modern-day diseases did not appear in mankind until the advent of cooking, agriculture, and domestication. Even short-term surveys implicate the modern (cooked, processed) diet as the cause of most disease.
You cannot convince me that a ticking time bomb is safe and harmless.
I agree with the processed food. Didnt I say that in my last post?
Also I stated that there is power in raw food for healing the diseases created by processed junk food.
Think about:
-Sugar.
-Salt.
-Vegetable oils.
-Radiation.
-Chemichals.
-Alcohol.
-Drugs.
-"Medicine".
-Make up.
-Deodorant.
-Gasses from cars and factories.
-Dairy.
-Grains.
-Caffeine.
And the list goes on...
And very important; the lack of the right nutrients in eggs and meats.
Dont forget that people tend to stay away from red meat and eggs, cooked AND raw.
No healthy foods for the immune system.
Im still experimenting and searching, sure, but I think at this moment in time.. I know too much people who are thriving on a cooked diet, to totally deny the option. I think its dangerous to become a radical on anything, thats why I made the connection with these vegans who stopped eating processed food, salt and get rid off toxins and pick up on exercise. They seem to have found the truth, while years later its clear that they are missing out on essential vitamins and minerals from animal foods. But they are so stuck on the fact that theyve "healed", that they wont try animal foods and just take supplements, because of lack of vitamins in the soil (whatever they got that from ???).
Well, to sum it up:
Convince people with your bloodwork and your ripped physique and healthy eyes and skin. Especially the bloodwork is important in this. If this is looking "perfect" than you will attract people who are sick and in need of help. You could help them. Stay happy and in balance and come from a place of love, like Van said.
Oh and Poncho, You seem to be very irritated to everyone who has another opinion than you, whether its diet or your approach of helping people. Others have the right to their opinions and mistakes just as much as you do.
We are all here to learn from eachother and sharing experiences and opinions are a part of this. A little respect, even if you totally disagree, would be in its place. I am referring to a comment that you made to for example Van or Bookittyrun.
-
Kaizen: I am including cooking as a form of food processing. Heat radically changes the form and content of the macronutrients and micronutrients in all foods.
-
Kaizen: I am including cooking as a form of food processing. Heat radically changes the form and content of the macronutrients and micronutrients in all foods.
I know :). But Im not sure of that. Just like Im not sure about the fact that parasites might be a good thing. Or eating meat filled with bacteria would be good. Im not saying a resounding never, but as of now I wont be trying that any time soon. I do, however, try raw meat and fish aswell.
As there is data to cooked meat being bad for you, there is also data about cooked meat making us human. So.. its just the data anyone wishes to believe. Just like vegans report that meat in general is dangerous, they seem to have data for that aswell.
Maybe you are right Eveheart and that is why Im experimenting with raw meat, but I will not condemn cooked meat just yet.
-
Here let me help you out here
I have very compromised digestion
If I eat cooked meat, I get sick and bloated, I get rage that cannot be tamed, its insane haha
If I eat raw meat, I feel better and better each time.
This is consistent and 100%
If you are a thinker, you'll conclude that the raw meat vs cooked meat concept may have some ground. and therefore deserves some reconsideration on your part.
-
our need for cooked meat is nothing more than an addiction
-
Here let me help you out here
I have very compromised digestion
If I eat cooked meat, I get sick and bloated, I get rage that cannot be tamed, its insane haha
If I eat raw meat, I feel better and better each time.
This is consistent and 100%
If you are a thinker, you'll conclude that the raw meat vs cooked meat concept may have some ground. and therefore deserves some reconsideration on your part.
I wont deny that this is what you experience and I am, truly, happy for you :).
Id say, go on what makes you feel best.
Consider that what you described at what you experience as rage and bloating, might have another cause that only you have. Not everyone in the world. Or does everyone you know get bloated and rage after eating cooked meat?
Im not sure, but it might be a case of candida that you have. Taking some organic garlic (sauce) with it might definetly do the trick of relieving the bloating.
I do consider raw, as I mentioned before a couple of times. Im just not falling into the trap of totally condemning everything else.
-
Kaizen: I am including cooking as a form of food processing. Heat radically changes the form and content of the macronutrients and micronutrients in all foods.
And generates abnormal molecules (new chemical species), many of which are noxious, some of them slowly and gradually accumulating in the body.
Kaizen, once again, the destruction of nutrients by heat is a very minor problem compared to the production of dangerous substances. >D Destroyed nutrients don't just mysteriously disappear without traces: they are transformed into something else.
There's no special "power" in raw food, because it's our normal fuel (none would say that there is a "special power" in diesel fuel when poured it in the tank of a diesel vehicle :)). Healing may spontaneously occur when the cause of disease (in most cases, junk food and drinks, cooked food, dairy and grain) is removed.
"I know too much people who are thriving on a cooked diet (...)" Yes, me too. Some will be lucky enough to remain in good health till they quietly die in their sleep at an advanced age, but "years later its clear most" get painful disease(s) due to the accumulation of toxic molecules in their bodies. Many of those I had known in apparently fine health died of illness or are now seriously ill, including some family members and friends.
But no doubt that a partly cooked paleo diet (excluding dairy and wheat) is better than a standard western diet, as proved with more than 1000 volunteers by Seignalet at Montpellier. Just found this link about his experiments : http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/04/01/dr-jean-seignalet-ancestral-diet-and-auto-immune-disease-trials/ (http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/04/01/dr-jean-seignalet-ancestral-diet-and-auto-immune-disease-trials/) ;)
-
Hi Iguana :)
I consider everything you say and agree with most of it!
You have been in this lifestyle long enough, so I will have to ask.. can you show me examples of people who have been eating raw meat over 10 or 15 years (or even better 40/50 years) ?
Show me as many as you can and maybe even point out what makes them look or feel healthier than the healthiest person on a cooked diet.
Its just that everyone I google or look up on youtube that eat raw meat.. doesnt look that healthy or fit to me. Just like raw vegans dont look that healthy to me. The girls Im attracted to eat alot of meat and vegetables.. cooked paleo kind of girls.
It would help out alot to see it on the outside that a person is healthy. :)
I do like the way you conversate Iguana, even tho we might disagree on some subjects. Your critique makes me think over alot of things and u dont seem to mind someone like me who is asking alot of questions. Its all out of interest and not plain old bitchin :o.
:D
-
Thanks!
I can show you (below - the line on his face is the shadow of a cloth's line) a photo taken 3 years ago of GCB, born in 1934.
The persons I know, mostly in Switzerland, who have been eating “instincto” for several decades (some since the 60’s) age quite slower and better than most others. What strikes me most is that women remain nice-looking and attractive till an advanced age. I ain’t got any photo of them, though.
Have you seen the 4 photos I linked in an above post: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/what-do-raw-paleo-children-prefer/msg66466/#msg66466 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/what-do-raw-paleo-children-prefer/msg66466/#msg66466)
-
Iguana has been doing the diet for 2 decades and a half. Others, like Aajonus, have done far more than that.
-
Photos of course are a complete waste of time as they are so deceptive, re lighting, photoshopping etc. I've seen cooked diet gurus look great on public photos, only to hear from others how truly sickly they actually looked in private.
-
He does look good for his age :).
The young boys look good aswell.
So thank you for posting these pictures! ;D
To go on about cooked meats...
What signs would implicate that toxins of cooked meat are accumulating in the body? Whether its seen on the outside or felt on the inside?
And.. if these toxins indeed do accumulate, would it be accurate to say that raw egg yolks are a good way to get rid off these toxins?
-
The accumulation of toxins is a logical inference and it can be clearly seen, for example in cellulite, and also smell. People often stink, and the older they get the more they may stink. An odor is due to some molecules in the air. Thus, if someone is polluting the ambient air, it certainly means that his/her body is saturated with malodorant molecules and if we perceive a substance as stinking, it means it's noxious.
Cannibals would certainly and wisely refrain from eating a stinking person! -v
-
It's easy to spot the signs of heat-created toxins from cooked foods harming the body. One only has to look at signs of increased aging such as cellulite, sagging skin etc. etc. Heat-created toxins are heavily implicated in accelerated aging.
-
I never noticed any smell from eating cooked meat.
Cooked or raw starches feed candida/yeast and made me stink in the past.
Also, dairy products feed candida/yeast and made me stink in the past.
The acidic nature of cooked meat creates an environment where candida is dying off and this creates alot off smell.
After using some natural herbs with it, the candida dies off and the smell goes away.
Feeling clean like a baby.
So, are u sure its due to just the meat.. or maybe the combination of meat and carbs.. like everyone on a SAD diet seems to take.
-
By referring to my own compromised digestion, it's always by hope that people will put two and two together.
I can't digest anything, but somehow I can digest raw meat.
Why doesn't that click in your head?
Cooked meat is horrible for your body, but the body is strong. The cooked food gets it down eventually, without exception.
My body being weaker, the cooked food really gets it down right away.
Raw meat makes everyone better.
My boyfriend lost 40 pounds in a few months eating this way with me.
He is just a normal guy, not dying of illness or anything.
This worked for my mom too.
Cooked paleo works to a certain extent, my aunt is doing that.
It doesn't have the same benefits, at all.
This is seriously undeniable. I've tried very hard to find it false, it's not possible.
You can find doctors, scientists, public figures, and thousands of people that will say it's false.
But real research will tell you the truth.
Always be wary of your teacher's motives.
-
was your boyfriend overweight to begin with? i just remember you also posting about how he was constantly hungry after meals. just curious if he shouldn't tweak his diet so as not to get thing
-
was your boyfriend overweight to begin with? i just remember you also posting about how he was constantly hungry after meals. just curious if he shouldn't tweak his diet so as not to get thing
Yeah it was all stress weight. He didn't even look like himself anymore, he was pretty miserable.
He was just going through the beginner period that I went through, where I was hungry constantly.
I told him that, but he made me ask you guys because he was paranoid.
-
By referring to my own compromised digestion, it's always by hope that people will put two and two together.
I can't digest anything, but somehow I can digest raw meat.
Why doesn't that click in your head?
Cooked meat is horrible for your body, but the body is strong. The cooked food gets it down eventually, without exception.
My body being weaker, the cooked food really gets it down right away.
Raw meat makes everyone better.
My boyfriend lost 40 pounds in a few months eating this way with me.
He is just a normal guy, not dying of illness or anything.
This worked for my mom too.
Cooked paleo works to a certain extent, my aunt is doing that.
It doesn't have the same benefits, at all.
This is seriously undeniable. I've tried very hard to find it false, it's not possible.
You can find doctors, scientists, public figures, and thousands of people that will say it's false.
But real research will tell you the truth.
Always be wary of your teacher's motives.
It does not "click in my head", rude girl, because your argumentation and examples are weak.
Your argumentation looks like the fruitarian guru durianrider.
Do you really think that.. YOUR digestion is the strongest argument out there?
If you tell me that you rage after eating cooked meat, well.. I personally dont know anyone who would rage after eating cooked meat.. never heard of it.
The fact that you think its true (after how long of eating this way?) does not mean its true.
Apart from all the above Id like to repeat that I am trying raw meat and I might drop cooked meat completely in the future, but the way you communicate its no wonder people have been bashing raw paleo. Its not the diet per se, its you.
That being said; this is my last reply to you. I wish you good luck on your journey.
-
I smell troll.....
-
I smell troll.....
Are you referring to me, and if so.. what do you mean by this?
-
Are you referring to me, and if so.. what do you mean by this?
Quite obviously. Nothing wrong with being wary re a diet's claims, but personal attacks are not condoned. Ah well, I'll put this thread in the Hot Topics forum.
-
Quite obviously. Nothing wrong with being wary re a diet's claims, but personal attacks are not condoned. Ah well, I'll put this thread in the Hot Topics forum.
It wasn't meant as an attack. But the way she talks down to people is something I really dislike.
So I just wanted to point out that she isn't God who knows it all, and that her arguments aren't rock solid.
Also, she wants to help people out.. well I just wanted to make a little more clear that people dont even care about your message if your communicating it in a disrespectful way.
I don't mean to make a big issue out of this. So I'm taking myself out of it.
If you think I went too far, I apologize..
:)
-
Kaizen is clearly trying to adopt a raw diet.
His benefits from cooked meat are likely from cleaning up his diet. Once figuring out how to eat raw will notice more improvements.
-
Yeah it was all stress weight. He didn't even look like himself anymore, he was pretty miserable.
He was just going through the beginner period that I went through, where I was hungry constantly.
I told him that, but he made me ask you guys because he was paranoid.
Aha I see. Yeah there are a lot of younger people that are sooo inflamed. Like the freshman 15 type shit, it looks pretty uncomfortable and definitely not healthy. Glad he is past that and you both are feeling healthy.
-
If you tell me that you rage after eating cooked meat, well.. I personally dont know anyone who would rage after eating cooked meat.. never heard of it.
The fact that you think its true (after how long of eating this way?) does not mean its true.
I get where you are coming from Kaizen, that its all relative. So put yourself in Poncho's shoes and it is true for her, for now. I don't know, I feel like there is always some kind of beginners enthusiasm on all diets, were we see results and are convinced this is the universal cure all. I think you will note most of us here have varied diets, some include something while others exclude the same. It's all about finding what works for your personally, and that definitely changes as your body heals and adapts.
But I don't understand this sentence I quoted. Where does she talk about raging? Only because I experienced it in the past, while eating "raw paleo" but sometimes with grainfed meat, which eventually made me sick, even raw, and sometimes due to blood sugar caused hormonal issues or use of weird supplements(DHEA, do not take!), but this was like.....4 years ago. Just curious
-
I smell troll.....
I fail to see why Kaizen felt that Poncho’s post was rude: my limited grasp of English prevents me to see what this fuss is all about. Who would be a troll and why? There seems to be a nasty obsession about trolls on this forum.
-
Here let me help you out here
I have very compromised digestion
If I eat cooked meat, I get sick and bloated, I get rage that cannot be tamed, its insane haha
If I eat raw meat, I feel better and better each time.
This is consistent and 100%
If you are a thinker, you'll conclude that the raw meat vs cooked meat concept may have some ground. and therefore deserves some reconsideration on your part.
This is a quote where she talks about raging.
By the way, I understand what you say Jessica.. about beginners enthusiasm. :)
I dont mind that at all, but the way of communicating is something I dont get.. no matter if u found the perfect diet or not.
-
I fail to see why Kaizen felt that Poncho’s post was rude: my limited grasp of English prevents me to see what this fuss is all about. Who would be a troll and why? There seems to be an nasty obsession about trolls on this forum.
Talking about.. why it doesnt "click in my head".. is considered pretty rude, atleast to me. Its a demeaning way of talking to someone.
Its not just what she said to me, but the whole attitude to someone who disagrees with her.. like the other person is stupid and people should listen to her because she got the answer.
I dont understand why I am a troll either. Im not against raw meat at all, but Im asking questions.. Im critical towards anything, but willing to try new things at the same time.
-
Talking about.. why it doesnt "click in my head".. is considered pretty rude, atleast to me. Its a demeaning way of talking to someone.
OK, I had had never seen or heard this expression, so I had no idea.
Jessica said something I also witnessed several times (it also happened to myself, and not only with diet): our understandable enthusiasm when we discover something new and remarkable. Good you're are immune to that tendency! And you're no troll, I can certify that! ;D
-
This is a quote where she talks about raging.
By the way, I understand what you say Jessica.. about beginners enthusiasm. :)
I dont mind that at all, but the way of communicating is something I dont get.. no matter if u found the perfect diet or not.
Oh I see. I guess she was talking about non raw paleo causing a bloated rage.
I totally understand how you viewed her statements too.
Poncho can you see how this is pretty limited?
There are many people who have weak digestion here as well, where raw meats doesn't just work right away, many have low HCL or other digestive disorders that need healing with high meats, clearing of liver or gallbladder issues, rebalancing of gut issues, blood sugar issues, hormonal. This is in no way to say what you have overcome isnt amazing, Poncho, just to say consider yourself very lucky you have a "%100 success rate".
Its definitely good to take everyone "advice" here just as a sharing of personal anecdotes, nothing more, and focus on what truly works for you. Which, as I said before, will probably change and evolve. Healing is generally an erratic process, slow, big leaps and bounds, some stabilizing set backs due to availability of foods or whatever and repeat.
-
OK, I had had never seen or heard this expression, so I had no idea.
Jessica said something I also witnessed several times (it also happened to myself, and not only with diet): our understandable enthusiasm when we discover something new and remarkable. Good you're are immune to that tendency! And you're no troll, I can certify that! ;D
Haha thanks :).
I do understand the enthusiasm aswell. I have had it on raw veganism, fruitarianism, cooked paleo and even on parts of raw paleo. Ive been falling into that trap way too often to realize that I need to keep my options open. I understand that chances are that I might be wrong on some things, even if they made me feel good.
This is why I ask alot of questions.. because I am enthusiastic about what some parts of raw paleo have offered me, but Im also aware that things might be much more complex then I think they are.
I think this is the first forum Ive been on where I can honestly express myself and play "advocate of the devil" in order to truly learn from you people and get to know all the ins and outs.
;D
-
Oh I see. I guess she was talking about non raw paleo causing a bloated rage.
I totally understand how you viewed her statements too. Poncho can you see how this is pretty limited? there are many people who have weak digestion here as well, were raw meats doesn't just work right away, many have low HCL or other digestive disorders that need healing with fermented meats, clearing of liver or gallbladder issues, etcetcetc. consider yourself very lucky you have a %100 success rate
Its definitely good to take everyone "advice" here just as a sharing of personal anecdotes, nothing more, and focus on what truly works for you. which, like I said, will probably change and evolve, its generally an erratic process, slow, big leaps and bounds, some stabilizing set backs due to availability of foods or whatever and repeat.
I do appreciate your understanding Jessica. And the way you view the process is something I definetly agree on.
I also appreciate all of you active members for your input and most of all, honesty. Even the fact that everyone does things a little bit different is a good thing. Admitting to taking supplements or medicine is also something thats brave to do.
By the way, on youtube there is a video where she is crying because she is not getting medical marijuana. Im sorry, but taking drugs and then say you are feeling perfect on a raw paleo diet takes away alot of the credibility. So 100% succes rate, I dont know about that.
Is there anyone by the way, who does live strictly on raw meats (maybe eggs and veggies with it) and has no need for supplements or medicine? If so, please respond.. Id like to learn more from your experience :D!
-
Is there anyone by the way, who does live strictly on raw meats (maybe eggs and veggies with it) and has no need for supplements or medicine? If so, please respond.. Id like to learn more from your experience :D!
I don't take supplements or medicine. However, in winters I have taken a vit D supplement, but I'm hoping that I won't need to this following winter.
-
I don't take supplements or medicine. However, in winters I have taken a vit D supplement, but I'm hoping that I won't need to this following winter.
Thanks for responding, Haai :).
1. So, what does your diet look like? And if you want, could you describe it as precise as possible?
2. Also, in what way did raw paleo help you?
3. And, do you feel as healthy as humanly possible, or do you think there is something to be gained still?
These questions are also meant for others who follow raw paleo without any supplements or medicine for some time now :).
-
I fail to see why Kaizen felt that Poncho’s post was rude: my limited grasp of English prevents me to see what this fuss is all about. Who would be a troll and why? There seems to be a nasty obsession about trolls on this forum.
There was nothing rude whatsoever in Poncho's post, which was why I thought that Kaizen was being deliberately hypocritical in this regard. As for Kaizen being thought of as a troll, he was being a bit too confrontational which was a bad sign. However, we'll see....
-
There was nothing rude whatsoever in Poncho's post, which was why I thought that Kaizen was being deliberately hypocritical in this regard. As for Kaizen being thought of as a troll, he was being a bit too confrontational which was a bad sign. However, we'll see....
Im looking for truth about health.. Im asking hard questions perhaps. I think its dangerous for you, me or anyone else to say that their diet is perfect. Unless u can back it up hardcore with not just numbers, but results aswell. See, Im fairly new to this diet as I will admit, but you and some others are quite experienced. So for me as a newbie to ask questions shouldnt be bad as long as you can answer them with something other than.. "it just works" or "it works for me so it is truth". It seems like I have to be controntational sometimes to get some answers or evidence or results..
Is it wrong for me to ask alot of questions? Is it wrong for me to wanting proof in the lines of bloodwork, healthy physiques, and all this without drugs, supplements or whatever?
Tyler, you obviously stated that Poncho didnt say anything rude, so let me use her way of asking this to you:
"Why doesnt it click in your head that Im just searching for evidence and in the end, truth?"
-
Thanks for responding, Haai :).
1. So, what does your diet look like? And if you want, could you describe it as precise as possible?
2. Also, in what way did raw paleo help you?
3. And, do you feel as healthy as humanly possible, or do you think there is something to be gained still?
These questions are also meant for others who follow raw paleo without any supplements or medicine for some time now :).
1. The past couple of months I've been eating mainly beef muscle meat, heart, liver, kidney, bone marrow and fat trimmings. I've also got some lambs heart in the fridge at the moment. Sometimes I eat minced wild venison. I was eating about 125 to 300 g of berries (raspberries or blueberries) per week. But i've been eating quite a few plums this past week or so, because the plums on the plum tree in my (parent's) garden have just ripened. They are quite an old variety. The plums are like one third of the size of the one's you see in a supermarket. I've also been eating a few dandelion leaves and mint leaves that happen to grow in the garden, but no more than like 10 leaves every three or four days or so. Yesterday I found a load of wild brambles and ate them till I could eat no more. In another couple of months, when there's no more wild fruit I'll be eating 100 percent animals foods till next summer. I eat when I'm hungry and stop eating when I'm full , but on days that I work out I will not eat before working out, or if I do eat beforehand it would be a very small quantity.
2. I no longer have eczema, which prior to starting the Raw Paleo Diet covered pretty much my entire body and made my life hell.
3. Bear in mind that a healthy diet alone will not necessarily counter the detrimental effects of other, unhealthy aspects in one's life, such as air pollution, a sedentary lifestyle, lack of sun exposure, emf exposure, being unearthed etc etc. Like Iguana often says, a Raw Paleo Diet should be considered the norm, not something 'special' that can make miracles happen. People have diverged from the normal diet and started eating an unnatural diet, which is discordant with our evolution, an that is one (of probably several) contributing factor(s) to their ill health. So in answer to your third question, no I do not think I am as healthy as humanly possible, but I do not believe that my diet is the limiting factor. But I really want to get hold of a thyroid gland for some iodine. When I get round to finding a job I might buy thyroid gland from Dr Ron's website, it's combined with liver though, which i don't need, especially at that price.
-
Alright Kaizen, you big fool.
Or small, can't be sure from that avatar you've got.
A brain injured girl can do whatever the fuck she wants if it helps her heal.
If it helps make the healing a little less painful, as it takes a painfully long time, even without added pain.
The marijuana video is a real recording of how I was doing at that point in time.
It was for the purpose of showing people what brain injury can be like.
All of my first videos are trying to do that.
Once I noticed that people we're generally incapable of comprehending them, I stopped posting them.
The marijuana was my only help, and I was devastated that a 'doctor' would deny me something so important.
You don't comprehend things, thats why I asked you if it clicked in your head.
I can't believe you have the nerve to judge me. You are an absolute fool.
The rage is another thing that brain injury caused. I was telling you about it, I wasn't asking for anyone's opinion on it.
Fuck everyone in my life thinks that they can just have opinions on my brain, and them be valid.
Seriously, you can't know.
No one here knows what it feels like to look down and see that your knuckles are white because your fists are clenched so hard, to feel the anger coursing through your veins, the tears flowing down your face, the hateful thoughts clouding your mind, all for seemingly no reason at all. That's what would happen when I really fucked up my digestive system.
Now it's not so bad, but I'm still not better.
No, I'm not 100%, and I might never be. No way to know, as far as I know.
I owe the progress I've made to this 'diet'.
Because for the 2.5 years or so before I found it, I was healing but getting sicker and sicker all at once.
You don't know what you're talking about.
-
Take it to PM please. The irony of the direction of the thread and its title. I'm tired of reading about us bashing each other.
-
Take it to PM please. The irony of the direction of the thread and its title. I'm tired of reading about us bashing each other.
I think you can learn a lot from this guy.
He's like a vegan, stating shit without knowing.
I started this thread. Of course I'm going to openly address someone who's bashing me on it?
Its messed up that everyone here turns on each other so quickly.
The modern human condition at it's finest. Every man for himself.
-
Im looking for truth about health.. Im asking hard questions perhaps. I think its dangerous for you, me or anyone else to say that their diet is perfect. Unless u can back it up hardcore with not just numbers, but results aswell. See, Im fairly new to this diet as I will admit, but you and some others are quite experienced. So for me as a newbie to ask questions shouldnt be bad as long as you can answer them with something other than.. "it just works" or "it works for me so it is truth". It seems like I have to be controntational sometimes to get some answers or evidence or results..
Is it wrong for me to ask alot of questions? Is it wrong for me to wanting proof in the lines of bloodwork, healthy physiques, and all this without drugs, supplements or whatever?
Tyler, you obviously stated that Poncho didnt say anything rude, so let me use her way of asking this to you:
"Why doesnt it click in your head that Im just searching for evidence and in the end, truth?"
So what? Some people like Poncho have experienced wonderful effects from a rawpalaeodiet and have no reason to question it. That is their right. Also, as regards photos/bloodwork etc, such things mean absolutely nothing. I've seen photos that made very ill people look absolutely healthy and vice-versa, and checking cholesterol-levels is meaningless as the science is completely divided as to what high/low/good/bad cholesterol even means etc. etc. At the end of the day, one can only experiment on one's own to see what works. Granted, one can sometimes thereby foul things up (I, for example, chose to consume raw dairy for a time, which was a disaster), but one can't expect others to be perfect, either.
-
Granted, one can sometimes thereby foul things up (I, for example, chose to consume raw dairy for a time, which was a disaster), but one can't expect others to be perfect, either.
haha I did the raw dairy thing for a bit, too.
brain injury + dairy = outrageous magnesium deficiency
-
Take it to PM please. The irony of the direction of the thread and its title. I'm tired of reading about us bashing each other.
Your right Dr. D ;). I knew what I was getting myself into, but did it anyway.. this time Im really out of this topic 8).
-
Also, as regards photos/bloodwork etc, such things mean absolutely nothing.
You can hardly say that blood tests mean nothing. They can provide a very useful insight into one's health status. You can test your blood for a lot more than just cholesterol. As for cholesterol, I think it's pretty well agreed amongst most nutritional scientists that HDL cholesterol is 'good' and that LDL and VLDL are 'bad'.
-
You can hardly say that blood tests mean nothing. They can provide a very useful insight into one's health status. You can test your blood for a lot more than just cholesterol. As for cholesterol, I think it's pretty well agreed amongst most nutritional scientists that HDL cholesterol is 'good' and that LDL and VLDL are 'bad'.
Not really. Scientific concensus on diet changes all the time. I gave the example of cholesterol as it is a classic case where people aren't really sure re its status as regards health. There's books like the cholesterol myth etc.
Point is food science and its impact on the human body are still heavily misunderstood. There is, thankfully though, a lot of solid data on the harm done by heat-created toxins in cooked foods.