Author Topic: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews  (Read 26124 times)

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Offline LePatron7

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2013, 02:42:10 am »
My understanding is that magnesium and vitamin D actually play larger roles in keeping calcium from causing problems.

What I've seen online (I have yet to read the book "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life" since it hasn't arrived yet) has said that Vitamin D3 helps it absorb from the gut, and Vitamin K2 helps it get where it's supposed to be and keep it out of arteries and other unwanted areas. Magnesium is very important for bone health too though.

Fortunately for us pastured foods are very high in Vitamin K2.

I recommend that book for more info. The Amazon site has some of the book available to read for free.

http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2013, 08:35:35 am »
all the calcium studies you are basing this on were done on heated calcium. excess raw calcium is excreted through the urine just like all other excess minerals. this is the point of urine. if its raw it doesn't get stuck anywhere and cause problems.

I've read studies showing correlations between heart disease and calcium/magnesium content in drinking water.  The higher the calcium and lower the magnesium, the worse the heart disease. 

If there's no history of it in one's family, it's probably no big deal, as long as all your dairy is raw and grassfed.  however, heart disease is RAMPANT in my family. 

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2013, 08:36:31 am »
What I've seen online (I have yet to read the book "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life" since it hasn't arrived yet) has said that Vitamin D3 helps it absorb from the gut, and Vitamin K2 helps it get where it's supposed to be and keep it out of arteries and other unwanted areas. Magnesium is very important for bone health too though.

Fortunately for us pastured foods are very high in Vitamin K2.

I recommend that book for more info. The Amazon site has some of the book available to read for free.

http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727

The ability of magnesium and vitamin D to counteract excess calcium has been well-known for many decades.  I agree that K2 plays a part, but it's a supporting role, not the dominant one.

Offline svrn

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2013, 03:37:04 pm »
I've read studies showing correlations between heart disease and calcium/magnesium content in drinking water.  The higher the calcium and lower the magnesium, the worse the heart disease. 

If there's no history of it in one's family, it's probably no big deal, as long as all your dairy is raw and grassfed.  however, heart disease is RAMPANT in my family.

id like to see this study. was the drinking water spring water or just water with calcium and magnesium added in?
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2013, 09:12:16 pm »
id like to see this study. was the drinking water spring water or just water with calcium and magnesium added in?

No, the minerals were naturally-occurring.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/143/5/456.full.pdf

"The odds ratios for death from acute myocardial infarction in the groups were inversely related to the amount of magnesium in drinking water. For the group with the highest levels of magnesium in drinking water, the odds ratio adjusted for age and calcium level was 0.65 (95 percent confidence interval 0.50-0.84). There was no such relation for calcium. For the magnesium/calcium quotient, the odds ratio was lower only for the group with the highest quotient. These data suggest that magnesium in drinking water is an important protective factor for death from acute myocardial infarction among males. Am J Epidemiol 1996;143:456-62."

So this says that magnesium appears to be protective against heart disease, while calcium does not. In addition, we should be aware that calcium and magnesium are chemical opposites in your body.  The action of one cancels and opposes the action of the other. Calcium makes your muscles contract, magnesium makes them relax.  That's just one example.


Offline svrn

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2013, 02:16:22 am »
so magnesium does protect the heart while calcium doesnt....

this does not show me how the calcium was detrimental in any way.

thats like saying protien is good because it builds muscle but fat is bad because it doesnt.

this proved nothing to me.
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Offline svrn

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2013, 02:19:23 am »
dont you people realize that all excess minerals are excreted through the urine? this is one of the main functions of urine.

if the minerals are raw the excess is excreted.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2013, 04:33:29 am »
Svrn, calcium and magnesium counteract each other in the body.  So, if magnesium is accomplishing something in your body, and you increase your calcium levels, then the calcium will reduce/reverse the thing that the magnesium was accomplishing. 

In addition, calcium can be directly responsible for heart disease, because the plaques that form inside arteries often contain a lot of calcium.

Offline svrn

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2013, 02:37:08 am »
once again you repeat things with no proof.

i already explained how the last study was not proof.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2013, 03:29:06 am »
once again you repeat things with no proof.

i already explained how the last study was not proof.

If you want to take the risk, that's your choice. 

Offline svrn

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2013, 08:27:29 am »
Your taking more of a risk than me by eliminating parts of your diet off of baseless conclusions.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2013, 09:21:26 am »
I'm OK with letting those who read this thread examine the evidence for themselves and make their own decisions.

Offline svrn

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2013, 11:57:58 pm »
just want to reming everyone that the study previously posted says nothing about whether or not too much raw calcium has any advers effects. all it says is that it does not prevent myocardial infarction like magnesium does. The stdy said absolutely nothing negative about too muhc calcium.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2013, 01:38:10 am »
just want to reming everyone that the study previously posted says nothing about whether or not too much raw calcium has any advers effects. all it says is that it does not prevent myocardial infarction like magnesium does. The stdy said absolutely nothing negative about too much calcium.

Do you want me to post links showing that calcium and magnesium are chemically antagonistic in the body, and reverse each others' effects, or do you want to google it yourself?

Calcium is by nature a "rough" mineral.  It's shape is spiky, and because of that, it tends to snag on softer things (like the walls of your arteries, for instance) and also tends to accrete (build up)  in places, because its spiky shape also helps calcium particles stick to one another.   This is helpful for forming bone, but not so good when you're trying to keep your arteries clear.

Magnesium is the opposite.  It moves easily around the body and tends to stay suspended in a liquid solution (like your blood, for instance) much more easily.  It's not spiky, so it doesn't scar the walls of your arteries, nor does it build up easily, unlike calcium.

If you don't believe this, Google it.

Offline jessica

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2013, 07:48:17 am »

If you don't believe this, Google it.

 I was with you until this part.  Pure genius.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2013, 09:04:37 am »
I was with you until this part.  Pure genius.

Oh yeah, that was absolutely intentional.  ROFL  not really.  :P

But it's true, nonetheless.  I've actually done a fair amount of calcium and magnesium chemistry through making soil mineral supplements at home.  Calcium loves to sink down and clump up, and you can see the spikes all over the clump of calcium.  Magnesium is the opposite.  It simply won't clump up, and it never really sinks all the way down to the bottom of the liquid solution.  They're complete opposites.


Offline jessica

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2013, 12:00:49 pm »
I watched this little interview with a retired USDA biologist who talks about the issues of geoengeneering with chemtrails and how it affects the soil.  Really interesting obviously, I mean, what are we as humans doing?  I cant even imagine...

http://youtu.be/9jf_nVLGDTo

hows that for a Segway? I am pretty sure you mentioned soil.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2013, 12:05:33 pm »
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2013, 12:27:00 pm »
Article on Vitamin K2, magnesium, D3, and calcium.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/16/vitamin-k2.aspx

That's very interesting.  I do take vitamin D orally.  I also eat a fairly large amount of high fish. I wonder if high fish has a lot of K2.

Offline svrn

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2013, 04:27:07 pm »
more studies done on isolated chemicals that have no relation to their raw state?

i googled and found no studies done on raw calcium showing its antagonistic relationship with magnesium.

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2013, 09:10:49 pm »
Fine.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/956805373/1111579

"Magnesium and calcium are two sides of a physiological coin: They are antagonistic to one another yet come as a team. For example:

• Calcium excites nerves, magnesium calms them down.

• Calcium makes muscles contract, but magnesium is necessary for muscles to relax.

• Calcium is necessary to the clotting reaction – so necessary for wound healing – but magnesium keeps the blood flowing freely and prevents abnormal thickening when clotting reactions would be dangerous. "


If you want more, just google "calcium magnesium antagonistic", without the quotes.

I especially want to point out that third bullet point regarding how calcium makes blood clot, and magnesium helps it to flow.  Remember what I told you about how calcium and magnesium behave in a liquid solution?

Given the tendency of calcium to cause blood clotting, I try to avoid excess calcium.  There's a long history of heart disease in my family, and I don't want to take that risk.

You may have no family history of heart disease, and so the excess calcium may not do you much harm.

I would like to point out that, when Dr. Price actually measured the average mineral levels of the diets of the tribes he studied, he found that the average calcium level was only about 5 times higher than the average American diet at the time.  However, the average magnesium level was much higher, more like 12 times higher than the American diet. In contrast, the ratio of calcium to magnesium in dairy is about 12:1.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 09:24:03 pm by cherimoya_kid »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2013, 09:17:56 pm »
Here's an excerpt from Dr. Price's book:

"... It is of interest that the diets of the primitive groups which have shown a very high immunity to dental caries and freedom from other degenerative processes have all provided a nutrition containing at least four times these minimum requirements; whereas the displacing nutrition of commerce, consisting largely of white-flour products, sugar, polished rice, jams, canned goods, and vegetable fats have invariably failed to provide even the minimum requirements.
In other words the foods of the native Eskimos contained 5.4 times as much calcium as the displacing foods of the white man, five times as much phosphorus, 1.5 times as much iron, 7.9 times as much magnesium, 1.8 times as much copper, 49.0 times as much iodine, and at least ten times that number of fat-soluble vitamins.

For the Indians of the far North of Canada, the native foods provided 5.8 times as much calcium, 5.8 times as much phosphorus, 2.7 times as much iron, 4.3 times as much magnesium, 1.5 times as much copper, 8.8 times as much iodine, and at least a ten fold increase in fat-soluble activators. For brevity, we will apply the figures to calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, iron and fat-soluble activators in order.

The ratio in the Swiss native diets to that in the displacing diet was for calcium, 3.7 fold; for phosphorus, 2.2 fold; for magnesium, 2.5 fold; for iron, 3.1 fold; and for the fat-soluble activators, at least ten fold.

For the Gaelics in the Outer Hebrides, the native foods provided 2.1 times as much calcium, 2.3 times as much phosphorus, 1.3 times as much magnesium, and 1.0 times as much iron; and the fat-soluble activators were increased at least ten fold.
For the Aborigines of Australia, living along the eastern coast where they have access to sea foods the ratio of minerals in the native diet to those in the displacing modernized foods was, for calcium, 4.6 fold; for phosphorus, 6.2 fold; for magnesium, 17 fold; and for iron 50.6 fold; while for the fatsoluble activators, it was at least ten fold.

The native diet of the New Zealand Maori provided an increase in the native foods over the displacing foods of the modernized whites of 6.2 fold for calcium, 6.9 fold for phosphorus, 23.4 fold for magnesium, 58.3 fold for iron; and the fatsoluble activators were increased at least ten fold.

The native diet of the Melanesians provided similarly an increase over the provision made in the modernized foods which displaced them of 5.7 fold for calcium, 6.4 fold for phosphorus, 26.4 fold for magnesium, and 22.4 fold for iron; while the fat-soluble activators were increased at least ten fold.

The Polynesians provided through their native diet for an increase in provision over that of the displacing imported diets, of 5.6 fold for calcium, 7.2 fold for phosphorus, 28.5 fold for magnesium, 18.6 fold for iron; and the fat-soluble activators were increased at least ten fold.

The coastal Indians of Peru provided through their native primitive diets for an increase in provision over that of the displacing modernized diet of 6.6 fold for calcium, 5.5 fold for phosphorus, 13.6 fold for magnesium, 5.1 fold for iron; and an excess of ten fold was provided for fat-soluble vitamins.

 For the Indians of the Andean Mountains of Peru, the native foods provided an increase over the provision of the displacing modern foods of S fold for calcium, 5.5 fold for phosphorus, 13.3 fold for magnesium, 29.3 fold for iron; and an excess of at least ten fold was provided for fat-soluble vitamins.

 For the cattle tribes in the interior of Africa, the primitive foods provided an increase over the provision of the displacing modernized foods of 7.5 fold for calcium, 8.2 fold for phosphorus, 19.1 fold for magnesium, 16.6 fold for iron and at least ten fold for fat-soluble activators.

 For the agricultural tribes in Central Africa the native diet provided an increase over the provision of the displacing modern diet of 3.5 fold for calcium, 4.1 fold for phosphorus, 5.4 fold for magnesium, 16.6 fold for iron and ten fold for fat-soluble activators...."


that's from chapter 15.

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price15.html


Offline van

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2013, 06:55:21 am »
more studies done on isolated chemicals that have no relation to their raw state?

i googled and found no studies done on raw calcium showing its antagonistic relationship with magnesium.
I doubt very seriously that you've find a Study done on raw calcium.  Most researchers don't recognize a difference, raw vs. cooked.  Considering that most waters are high in inorganic ca.  one might want to question as to how one could separate such a study if there was one, of course unless the participants in the study were drinking distilled water.


Offline jessica

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2013, 09:21:51 am »
Just anecdotal experience, two friends of mine, who drink well water with high calcium and also eat oxalate containing foods have had kidney stones in the past few months.  Both are healthier then the average American and eat cleaner diets, but still eat shit like quinoa and chard.

I passed a kidney stone a few years ago, it was after a winter of drinking well and spring water that was very high in calcium, it affected me pretty quickly and I stopped because I felt really swollen in the face.

I now eat raw dairy and some pasteurized but local and grassfed butter and drink RO water and find no issues, no swelling, no kidney pain.  I also take mag glycinate, usually daily, sometimes I forget. 

My guess is that whatever form of calcium that is in raw milk has been broken down a bit by the cows digestion process to be more easily assimilated.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Raw Cheese: Types, Brands, Sources, Reviews
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2013, 12:12:33 pm »
more studies done on isolated chemicals that have no relation to their raw state?

Speaking of isolated chemicals. I think I've seen you mention that salt is toxic because it's used in a lab to make explosives. FYI that's sodium in it's pure state which can only be made in labs. The salt in sea salt is bound to chloride (and various other things) to make it totally harmless.

And those studies are relevant to calcium, any calcium (raw or cooked), leading to problems. You can't provide any evidence that "raw" calcium is magically different than "cooked" calcium and somehow the body can magically regulate it because of that.

Also, grass fed dairy usually has a decent amount of Vitamin K2, which would help direct the calcium where it needs to go and away from arteries. However I highly doubt someone drinking a lot of dairy could negate the effects of the excessive calcium (cal:mag ratio) without eating A LOT of magnesium rich foods. The upsetting of the cal:mag balance in the body is likely the biggest problem when drinking lots of dairy.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

 

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