Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: invisible on May 04, 2010, 10:34:11 am
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for the people who take fish oil what brand do you use and where do you get it from and is it raw i.e. cold pressed or fermented?
I saw this in a local pharmacy http://www.swisse.com.au/Swisse/PRODUCTS/Fish_Oil/default.aspx#/PRODUCTS/Fish_Oil/Product_Range-O/SWISSE_ULTIBOOST_WILD_SALMON_OIL/Benefits-E/
It looks to be perfect, but I'm skeptical since as I said I saw it in a local pharmacy where everything else is garbage lol
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Great product, but pricy.
http://www.building-health.com/blue-ice™-royal-blend-gel-81-oz-240-ml-p-66.html
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Green Pastures sometimes has sales on overstocks of Blue Ice CLO. I was paying $19.90/8oz bottle for liquid Arctic Mint, but now it's back up to $44. Right now the sale is on Salty Cod @ $29/8oz, if you can stomach that flavor (haven't tried it myself): http://www.greenpasture.org/retail/?t=products
Does anyone know how long one can store unopened bottles of Blue Ice? I'm thinking that maybe I should stock up on whichever ones I find I can stomach when they go on sale. The liquid in one opened bottle I had eventually started to get thick and lumpy, but the contents of the current bottle are still crystal clear and liquidy over the same time frame. Strange how much difference there can be between bottles.
I noticed I'm able to handle the Blue Ice better over time--it's burning the back of my throat less and less.
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I recently started using Blue Ice fermented oil too. I got in capsules so I just chew the oil out to avoid swallowing them. It tastes bitter.
It seems a little solidified inside the capsules, can anyone relate to this?
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Bitter doesn't seem like quite the right word for how it tasted to me the first time I tried it, though that comes close. It was more like powerful and maybe a little medicinal and very burning. It was like drinking vodka straight. Now it seems pretty mild. My first bottle of Blue Ice CLO did solidify into a thick gel, yes.
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Alright I just had a feeling it might have been rancid.
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Only buy the raw, fermented, unscented, cod liver oil from Blue Ice. At leats it's the only one I know which is genuinely raw.
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At this point the Blue Ice liquid seems boringly bland to me. It's amazing how in just several months I could experience such a change in taste sensation with it.
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At this point the Blue Ice liquid seems boringly bland to me. It's amazing how in just several months I could experience such a change in taste sensation with it.
Hi PaleoPhil,
Long time no speak! :) I've disappeared into 'babyworld' these last 6 months or so and have missed being around the forum but I'm going to make a concerted effort to get back on here.
Being a natural substance, do you think the change in taste sensation you've noticed with Blue Ice CLO could be due to fluctuations in the actual product? I've been using it for a number of years now and have experienced a variety of different tastes and textures. Interestingly, my latest batch does not give the burning sensation frequently experienced by myself and most others either. I wonder if they've altered their production methods? It's a most welcome change no matter what! :)
Michael
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Quite possible, as my current bottle hasn't congealed like my first two bottles did.
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It was foolish of me to order the capsuled ones. Even though I don't swallow, putting them in my mouth alone causes problems and the residue that goes down with the oil I swallow is still destructive.
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Quite possible, as my current bottle hasn't congealed like my first two bottles did.
That's interesting. Do you still experience that back-of-the-throat burning sensation a little or has it completely receded? I haven't noticed it at all on my last couple of bulk orders. I've also just starting giving it to my, now, 14 month old son - just 1-2ml. He loves it and actually asks for it now! :)
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Interesting. It's amazing how much young children like ancestral-type foods. They're taste buds haven't been ruined yet.
MoonStalker, perhaps you could try biting into the gels, sucking out the oil and then spitting out the gelatin capsule, if you don't mind the taste? I do that sometimes.
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That's what I usually do with gel capsules and the like. These capsules are more fragile and have a powerful scent, so that isn't enough. Next time I'll to buy the non-capsule bottles.
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Interesting. It's amazing how much young children like ancestral-type foods. They're taste buds haven't been ruined yet.
Yes, I think you're spot on with that observation. The key is avoiding the manipulation and destruction of taste. I was certainly positively surprised by his love of the CLO. I'll have to start that thread soon regarding the raising of my son which could, hopefully, act as a useful record for others if continued over a period of time including developmental photos etc
It was foolish of me to order the capsuled ones. Even though I don't swallow, putting them in my mouth alone causes problems and the residue that goes down with the oil I swallow is still destructive.
Is there any way you could obtain a cheap needle syringe, MoonStalkeR, to plunge into the gel capsule and extract the pure, untainted liquid? I would expect these are cheap enough to buy or you may even be able to access a free one from a hospital or drug treatment centre?
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I will definitely try that, though I would expect the liquid itself to be tainted by the capsule's material. In the meantime I will use the Carlson's bottle I still have.
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Cool. Good luck with that and keep us posted with your results. You're probably right that the oil may have become a little tainted by the capsule but it's a huge improvement on chewing or, worse, consuming the capsules! :)
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Just picked up a bottle of the Blue Ice fermented CLO today. It smells like it would make an excellent catfish bait. Burned going down, so it must be working.
I've heard of some people getting a fishy smell from this stuff. Anyone here noticed that?
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Glad to hear you've made the purchase tdister. I used to get the burning but don't seem to anymore. I have suspected they're using a different production method as the oil seems better all round.
If there were no fishy smell to it I'd be a little concerned to be honest! :) I must say, however, that it's only slight and it's by far the tastiest cod liver oil I've ever tried.
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Glad to hear you've made the purchase tdister. I used to get the burning but don't seem to anymore. I have suspected they're using a different production method as the oil seems better all round.
If there were no fishy smell to it I'd be a little concerned to be honest! :) I must say, however, that it's only slight and it's by far the tastiest cod liver oil I've ever tried.
I've noticed a reduction in the burning sensation already. It's barely there now.
Oh, by fishy smell I meant coming from you, I read of a lady who was giving her son half doses because he started smelling like it on full doses.
I'm trying to figure out the best way to take it for full benefits/absorption. Take it on it's own or with other food? I wish I could stand having it in my mouth so I could "chew" the fat to aid digestion. I've been taking it in the morning and chasing it with eggs.
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tdister, Great to hear the burning has almost ceased. That's very interesting!
Oh, sorry I misunderstood. I have no idea if I smell of fish from taking it but, certainly, my partner who took it throughout her pregnancy and continuing for the 14 months since giving birth never seems to smell of fish. I suppose digestive problems such as reflux, indigestion etc could cause one to give off a certain fishy odor.
Regarding the best way of taking it, I would recommend taking doses with meals and, preferably, meals containing lots of good other fats. Weston Price, of course, found that the benefits of CLO were only fully appreciated when it was taken along with raw butter (or other foods high in Vit A). I think your protocol of chasing it with eggs is a good one also. I wouldn't be overly concerned about 'chewing' the fat. There's nothing to be gained from this IMO.
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... Weston Price, of course, found that the benefits of CLO were only fully appreciated when it was taken along with raw butter (or other foods high in Vit A).
CLO is already very high in vitamin A. What raw butter has that CLO doesn't is vitamin K2.
I think your protocol of chasing it with eggs is a good one also.
Egg yolks do also contain vitamin K2.
I wouldn't be overly concerned about 'chewing' the fat. There's nothing to be gained from this IMO.
Someone here posted that chewing fat is beneficial--I think it was one of the Instinctos--but I can't find their post now. I hope whoever it was will respond. most non-processed animal body fats require at least some chewing anyway and I find that suet becomes more enjoyable to eat and less likely to cause gas or go through me when I chew it a lot.
Plus, chewing fat is so common among traditional peoples, including even Englishmen not too long ago, that there is a common phrase in English: "chewing the fat". Inuits are well known for "chewing the fat".
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CLO is already very high in vitamin A. What raw butter has that CLO doesn't is vitamin K2.
Egg yolks do also contain vitamin K2.
Someone here posted that chewing fat is beneficial--I think it was one of the Instinctos--but I can't find their post now. I hope whoever it was will respond. most non-processed animal body fats require at least some chewing anyway and I find that suet becomes more enjoyable to eat and less likely to cause gas or go through me when I chew it a lot.
Plus, chewing fat is so common among traditional peoples, including even Englishmen not too long ago, that there is a common phrase in English: "chewing the fat". Inuits are well known for "chewing the fat".
I understand that fermented CLO does have K2.
I've heard to chew fat thoroughly before I ever heard of paleo eating. There are enzymes for sugars and fats in your saliva, as I understand it.
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I understand that fermented CLO does have K2.
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Ah yes, I forgot, but I don't think the amount has been carefully measured, but if it has please let me know. However, I think K2 is why the WAPF recommends taking butter oil along with CLO (I don't myself, though, because I eat other K2 foods like liver and free range egg yolks and because I don't handle dairy products well).
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CLO is already very high in vitamin A. What raw butter has that CLO doesn't is vitamin K2.
Yes, thanks for correcting me on that Phil for the benefit of other readers. I did realise my Vit A gaff after I'd posted! :D
Someone here posted that chewing fat is beneficial--I think it was one of the Instinctos--but I can't find their post now. I hope whoever it was will respond. most non-processed animal body fats require at least some chewing anyway and I find that suet becomes more enjoyable to eat and less likely to cause gas or go through me when I chew it a lot.
Plus, chewing fat is so common among traditional peoples, including even Englishmen not too long ago, that there is a common phrase in English: "chewing the fat". Inuits are well known for "chewing the fat".
I stand, potentially, corrected. But, it was just - as I said - my opinion based on my own current knowledge. I'm certainly aware of the well-known phrase "chewing the fat". Empirical evidence such as the Inuits chewing fat holds value too, IMO, but do you guys know of any studies on the subject? Clearly, breaking the fat into physically smaller pieces is always going to help digestion by providing more surface area for digestive juices to break down hydrogen bonds etc but I wasn't aware of any lipase enzyme being secreted in saliva or of any other scientifically known benefits of chewing fat. If the physical element is the only factor then, of course, it becomes irrelevant with regard to taking liquid oil.
Anybody care to enlighten me?
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There's 'lingual lipase' secreted in the mouth.
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I consider myself enlightened! :) Thanks miles.
I've just briefly Googled 'lingual lipase' and it does indeed appear to be secreted from glands around the tongue for the purpose of breaking down triglycerides to diglycerides and free fatty acids. In essence, a critical initial stage in fat digestion!
I must admit that I was completely unaware of this but will certainly read up further now on this subject.
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Bingo! Thanks Miles and Michael. Just what I was looking for.
Here's some fascinating stuff I found on lingual lipase:
Lingual Lipase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingual_lipase
“In the uterus, the fetus is dependent on a high-carbohydrate diet. After birth, fat in milk or a milk substitute becomes the major source of nutrition. Absorptive rates of dietary fat are much lower in neonates than in adults, 65-80% as compared to >95% respectively, which can be attributed to low pancreatic lipase activity. (1 Hamosh M, Scow RO (January 1973). "Lingual lipase and its role in the digestion of dietary lipid". J. Clin. Invest. 52 (1): 88 – 95. doi:10.1172/JCI107177. PMID 4682389) Furthermore, milk fat is not a good substrate for pancreatic lipase. This fact, in combination with the bile salt deficiency and low pH throughout the gastrointestinal tract of the neonate, demands that lingual lipase be the main enzyme catalyzing the hydrolysis of dietary fat. This enzyme activity has been seen as early as 26 weeks gestational age, with ability to hydrolyze dietary fats variable according to digestive tract maturity.(1)”
Human distribution of lingual lipase within the body is more like that of other primates and carnivores than of plant-heavy omnivores and ruminants:
From Fat digestion and absorption, By Armand B. Christophe, Stephanie DeVriese, p. 1:
“(L)ingual lipase is present in rodents and ruminants who have no gastric lipase, whereas carnivores, lagomorphs, and primates, including humans, have predominantly gastric lipase.”
Oral lingual lipase continues to work in the stomach of rats:
Lingual Lipase and Its Role in the Digestion of Dietary Lipid
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC302230/?tool=pmcentrez
(emphasis mine)
Abstract
“The serous glands of rat tongue were found to contain a potent lipolytic enzyme which hydrolyzed triglyceride to mostly diglyceride and free fatty acids (FFA) at pH 4.5-5.4. Homogenates of lingual serous glands from adult rats hydrolyzed 40-70 mmol of triglyceride/g per h. The soft palate, anterior oral pharyngeal wall, and lateral oral pharyngeal glands also contained the activity, but at a much lower level. The lipolytic activity was also found in saliva collected through an esophageal cannula and in stomach contents of rats fed a fat-rich meal. The stomach contained very little activity, however, when saliva was excluded. Lipolytic activity was not found in the stomach wall or in the parotid, submandibular, and sublingual glands. The findings suggest that the lingual serous glands secrete a lipase which catalyzes in the stomach the conversion of triglyceride to partial glycerides and FFA. It is proposed that this reaction is the first step in the digestion of dietary lipid.”
Combining knowledge of lingual (salivary) lipase with the below report that a-amylase-binding bacteria in plaque are aided by salivary amylase in binding dietary starch to teeth and in promoting dental caries calls into question the claims that the existence of salivary amylase proves that humans are omnivores or herbivores rather than carnivores. The salivary evidence actually seems to point more toward carnivory/faunivory than omnivory/herbivory.
From: Salivary a-Amylase: Role in Dental Plaque and Caries Formation
Critical Reviews in Oral Biology and Medicine, 4(3/4):301-307 (1993)
http://cro.sagepub.com/content/4/3/301.full.pdf+html
(emphasis mine)
"In summary, the available evidence from in vitro, animal, and human studies implicates dietary starch as a cariogenic substrate. a-Amylase bound on the surface of plaque bacteria may promote the processing of dietary starch. To obtain a more meaningful picture of the role of starch and a-amylase in the caries process, the relationships between a-amylase, a-amylase-binding bacteria in plaque, and starch intake should be assessed in caries active and inactive subjects. Bacterial plaques having high levels of a-amylase-binding bacteria may concentrate salivary a-amylase within the plaque matrix to provide more glucose from dietary starch in close proximity to the tooth surface. Such plaques would likely be more cariogenic in the presence of starch-containing foods than plaques having low numbers of a-amylase-binding bacteria. "
Diglyceride
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“A diglyceride, or a diacylglycerol (DAG), is a glyceride consisting of two fatty acid chains covalently bonded to a glycerol molecule through ester linkages.”
Vegetarian Frequently Asked Questions - Ingredients
www.ivu.org/faq/ingredients.html
“Mono- and diglycerides are esters of edible fat-forming acids usually of the sweet alcohol glycerin. ...”
Glycerol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol
“Glycerol is sweet-tasting and of low toxicity.”
Since diglycerides contain sweet glycerol molecules (see Staying healthy with nutrition: the complete guide to diet and nutritional, By Elson M. Haas, p. 452), I wonder if the breakdown of hydrolyzed triglyceride by lingual lipase into mostly diglyceride and free fatty acids (FFA) (and possibly partially into glycerol and fatty acids?) could explain why suet tastes mildly sweet to me when I chew it extensively.
Still more evidence that humans are more fat-oriented than starch-oriented is this report suggesting that diglyceride-rich foods may promote weight loss in humans:
Diglyceride-Rich Foods May Promote Weight Loss
http://bastyrcenter.org/content/view/448/
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Bingo! Thanks Miles and Michael. Just what I was looking for.
Glad you were able to benefit from my ignorance and questioning Phil! :)
Lots of info to work our way through there, thanks. I hereby declare you the resident forum researcher! :) Nice work.
BTW, I've now finally acquired a suitable farrier's file (known here as a rasp). It certainly wasn't cheap but seems to do the job on the beef and lamb bones I've tried it on so far. It seems to take a while filing to get any worthwhile quantity but I intend to pursue with this new venture and have taken a teaspoon of raw bone filings for each of the last couple of days. I'm also starting to up my intake of liver, CLO and sunshine and I have some nightshade-free low carb kimchi fermenting away in my crock pot. I hope to report back to the forum with any outcomes over the coming months.
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Michael,
It just occurred to me that various woodworking tools could be pressed into service to reduce bone to meal. The planer etc. come to mind. I'll keep you posted.
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Good suggestion raw-al. I'm a woodworking enthusiast myself! For that reason, I'll let you experiment with that line of inquiry as I wouldn't want to put any of my prized razor sharp planes anywhere near any bones! :) But, it's probably a very reasonable suggestion and I could imagine it working beautifully.
I look forward to an update!
BTW, a word of warning to anyone intending on trying van's farrier rasp techniques for homemade bone meal:
- Firstly, DO NOT hold the blade with your hand whilst screwing on the separately purchased handle. I foolishly did this and it absolutely shredded my hand!! I didn't even notice until a few minutes later when blood was streaming everywhere! So, be careful.
- Secondly, DO NOT try washing the rasp after use! Please follow van's advice and invest in a wire brush for 'dry' cleaning after each use. I ignored this. My partner (I'll blame her!) ;) washed it up and left it sitting in a pool of water. Needless to say, my new £30 farrier rasp soon took on a wonderful burnt copper hue!! It took a long time to remove the acquired surface rust and restore it with my, newly purchased, wire brush!