Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Welcoming Committee => Topic started by: Spearhead on November 16, 2009, 08:08:44 am
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Hi everyone,
I've been lurking for a while on these forums and wanted to go ahead and take advantage of your expertise if you would be so kind. Over the last two years I've been suffering on and off from stomach cramps and indigestion, bloating, fatigue, itchiness and sporadic rashes, and heavy anxiety and nervousness when my gut is inflamed. Since early this year I have gradually been taking action to heal myself and try to break out of this vicious cycle my stomach is in. I've even consulted a Chek practitioner from the Chek institute to help me try to pinpoint the internal problems. Ironically enough I'm writing this, not because I'm concerned about getting parasites from eating raw, but rather because I believe I have a parasitic infection (almost everything else has been ruled out) and I need advise on how to approach a raw paleo diet with this in mind. In any case I have a lab coming back in a week or 2 that will confirm this with 100% certainty at which point the guy I am working with is writing me a protocol to cleanse out the gut.
I'm not entirely inclined to go 100% raw paleo until I've killed whatever is living inside of me, but I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on healing parasites through RPD or any other recommendations for what I can do to heal myself. Maybe try adding some raw organ meats in combination with my cooked regimen for the time being?
Also, I recently ate some sashimi with seaweed this week and it came out nearly undigested on the way out, is it common for raw meat and seafood to come out like this in the early stages or is this more than likely the bugs inside of me eating my food first?
I'm also curious to know if you think a Metabolic type diet as developed by Dr. William Walcott is compatible with RPD? I for one am a bit skeptical of ZC even though I believe the human diet should be largely protein based.
Any help you guys can give would be awesome.
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The solution will depend on what you have, but here are a few remedies that have worked for me and my family:
- Try drinking chamomile tea. Also get some chamomile oil on your tummy externally.
- Try fully cooked meat whether pork or beef to sooth inflammation.
- Try fasting, orange juice fasting did wonders for me, 3 days.
- Try Bieler's soup daily for 5 days.
- I know a bunch of anti-parasite remedies like internal zappers, external zappers, beam ray and herbal anti-parasite stuff
Of course once I got my tummy online after some inflammation due to non-paleo food I quickly got back on the raw track.
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The solution will depend on what you have, but here are a few remedies that have worked for me and my family:
- Try drinking chamomile tea. Also get some chamomile oil on your tummy externally.
- Try fully cooked meat whether pork or beef to sooth inflammation.
- Try fasting, orange juice fasting did wonders for me, 3 days.
- Try Bieler's soup daily for 5 days.
- I know a bunch of anti-parasite remedies like internal zappers, external zappers, beam ray and herbal anti-parasite stuff
Of course once I got my tummy online after some inflammation due to non-paleo food I quickly got back on the raw track.
Thanks good samaritan.
I've actually been drinking lots of chamomile and this has helped a bit but by no means has it solved the problem completely. I guess I'm just curious as the RPD perspective on curing parasites or other intestinal infections as it would seem to me RPD has a lot of intrinsic healing properties, but maybe this can only happen once the gut is free of inflammation?
Anyways once I know for sure what it is I have it will make combating it much easier, unfortunately I can't take any anti parasitics until I collect my sample to avoid getting a false negative.
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If you want to kill parasites, GoodSamaritan is your man. If you want to strengthen your body so parasites don't bother you, then if I were you I would try RPD and see how it goes.
My own approach is to get back to basics--raw red meat, animal fat, eggs and other meats and fish--and then see if I can tolerate some berries, apples, greens and one or two other things added to that. My experiment is not complete yet. YMMV
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I was waiting for GS to chime in here :)
Why does cooked meat sooth inflammation?
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I was waiting for GS to chime in here :)
Why does cooked meat sooth inflammation?
It probably depends on what you got.
I was writhing in agony after eating a lot of non paleo sushi.
I tried many different approaches to cure my lower bowel inflammation (a slight tap of my a** and the pain radiates inside).
Of course I tried raw meat first. (no difference)
Then tried fruit. (made it worse)
Then tried fully cooked fatty pork (that worked really fast).
I don't really know why cooked fatty pork soothed my bowel inflammation that time, but it did. I mentioned my stumbling onto this solution to another person in a cooked paleo diet forum and it worked for him too.
Some things are just trial and error.
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Do you feel your heavy anxiety is caused by your gut being inflamed or do you feel anxious because it's inflamed and that worries you?
Sound like a psychiatrist :)
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It probably depends on what you got.
I was writhing in agony after eating a lot of non paleo sushi.
I tried many different approaches to cure my lower bowel inflammation (a slight tap of my a** and the pain radiates inside).
Of course I tried raw meat first. (no difference)
Then tried fruit. (made it worse)
Then tried fully cooked fatty pork (that worked really fast).
I don't really know why cooked fatty pork soothed my bowel inflammation that time, but it did. I mentioned my stumbling onto this solution to another person in a cooked paleo diet forum and it worked for him too.
Some things are just trial and error.
Raw fatty pork works very well for me to south bowel inflammation.
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Considering that I had those exact same symptoms pre-rawpalaeodiet(plus numerous others), I have my doubts as to whether a parasite is involved(in my own case, the reason was due to a near-destruction of my glandular system resulting in adrenal burnout etc. etc.)
Another point, as raised in a recent article, is that parasites are usually only an issue for those who've been eating unhealthy, cooked diets:-
http://goingferal.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/parasites-those-who-inhabit-us/
In other words, even in the unlikelihood that you have parasites, it would be far better for you to eat rawpalaeo and strengthen your system than to get rid of them. By all means use anti-parasitical remedies like wormwood tincture, cayenne pepper and pumpkin seeds, but that's not the real issue.
Re metabolic typing:- Largely useless when applied to rawpalaeo as we don't eat raw grains or raw dairy and the like, generally.
ZC, however raw, can be an issue for some, though others appear to do fine with it. I would suggest caution and trying something a little less extreme, for the moment. With ZC, anyway, one usually has to plan so far ahead to avoid cheating(ie buying several weeks' of high-quality raw grassfed meats beforehand so as to never be caught short).
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Considering that I had those exact same symptoms pre-rawpalaeodiet(plus numerous others), I have my doubts as to whether a parasite is involved(in my own case, the reason was due to a near-destruction of my glandular system resulting in adrenal burnout etc. etc.)
Another point, as raised in a recent article, is that parasites are usually only an issue for those who've been eating unhealthy, cooked diets:-
http://goingferal.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/parasites-those-who-inhabit-us/
In other words, even in the unlikelihood that you have parasites, it would be far better for you to eat rawpalaeo and strengthen your system than to get rid of them. By all means use anti-parasitical remedies like wormwood tincture, cayenne pepper and pumpkin seeds, but that's not the real issue.
Re metabolic typing:- Largely useless when applied to rawpalaeo as we don't eat raw grains or raw dairy and the like, generally.
ZC, however raw, can be an issue for some, though others appear to do fine with it. I would suggest caution and trying something a little less extreme, for the moment. With ZC, anyway, one usually has to plan so far ahead to avoid cheating(ie buying several weeks' of high0quality raw grassfed meats beforehand so as to never be caught short).
Tyler, thanks for your reply. My understanding was that only certain parasites can form a symbiotic relationship with us whereas others will always be harmful. What exactly causes the parasites to drain the host organism on a cooked meat diet while not doing so on a raw diet? Is it not that there are simply more nutrients to go around but the parasite continues to drain the host regardless?
Also, what is the real cause of food poisoning? Are there no cases of food poisoning caused by raw meat?
Re metabolic typing, although Walcott follows Sally Fallon's nutritional principles pretty closely, I was more referring to how carb, protein, and fat ratios are distributed along an either predominately high protein and fat/low carb, high carb, low fat and protein, or mixed type. The claim behind it seems to be that certain people do better with different ratios and require less of one group than the other. I don't see how excluding dairy and grains would necessarily exclude the idea 100%, although I'll admit following a metabolic type has not improved my digestion or energy at all but that is likely due to other underlying causes.
As to ZC, I don't think I would do well on such a diet, I think my goal is to go for an Omnivorous RPD supplementing my protein and fats with plenty of vegetable and fruit carbs.
In any case, I've thought a good place to start would be to start supplementing my cooked diet by eating some raw liver and see how I do, and if it gives me the benefits I'm looking for then I can build from there. Do you think this might be a good way to help me get some relief? Incidentally, the Chek practitioner I'm working with is not against eating raw meats but he has told me that since I have a compromised gut immunity I run risks given that there are going to be unknown microbes on my meat that may harm me. Personally I think this sounds a bit questionable, what's the RPD science to refute this type of argument?
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Do you feel your heavy anxiety is caused by your gut being inflamed or do you feel anxious because it's inflamed and that worries you?
Sound like a psychiatrist :)
I've been suffering from horrible anxiety since 2004. However, while I used to get anxious all the time regardless of how my gut felt, since improving my diet to a nearly Paleo diet I'm only ever anxious when my gut is inflamed, which for the last month has been almost constant.
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Hi Spearhead,
Like Tyler, I too suffered most if not all of your symptoms years ago so I will lend you my own experiences should they prove of any use to you.
Firstly, I would suspect low stomach hydrochloric acid as evidenced by your frequent passing of undigested foods. Betaine Hydrochloride supplements will help with this issue. If you have suffered with low stomach acid at any point, the chances are that you have been invaded by parasites as they're usually dealt with in healthy subjects by strong stomach acid.
Anyhow, parasites are rife in most of the population due to incorrect diet. I relieved ALL of the symptoms you describe by long scientific fasting. Check out www.fasting.com (http://www.fasting.com). This was over 10 years ago and was the beginning of my health resolution. However, with my many years since of following raw animal food diets I'm not sure if this step is completely necessary. RPD would probably resolve the issues over time anyway. If Aajonous Vonderplanitz is to be believed, the parasites are doing a good job in fact by saving you from a lifetime of incorrect eating.
As Tyler mentioned, some of the ubiquitous parasite herbs will probably help but, I expect, you will need something more powerful. I had used all of the most powerful parasite herbs before my fast. Despite this I still removed parasites of all descriptions, literally, by the bucket load throughout my 60 day fast!
My suggestion - cleanse then rebuild with correct nutrition.
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If I could jump in, eat only when hungry, stop before you're full, eat only grass fed healthy animals, know the source, don't mix meat with carbs, find a good source of grass fed fat that is tasty to you in it's raw form. Small frequent amounts of garlic with meat and fat meals doesn't give most microbes food they want to eat. don't expect overnight results. And when you get your lab results you'll know more as what you may or may not have. Good luck
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Very good jump in van! i agree with all of those. I will add though, Spearhead, that I also had extensive hospital and lab tests done when I had my problems all those years ago. They found nothing! Months later I fasted and, as I said, shifted bucketloads of parasites from a few millimetres in size to very large garden earth worm size!! My point - don't rely too much on the outcome of your tests!
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Why should I avoid eating carbs with meat? Is this due to ph levels in the stomach?
Also Michael, as to the lab test. I am getting pretty much the most in depth lab test that exists, but I agree that it's not by any means guaranteed to pinpoint anything. Here's a list of everything it tests for: http://www.forresthealth.com/store/GI-Effects-Stool-Profile-Complete.html (http://www.forresthealth.com/store/GI-Effects-Stool-Profile-Complete.html)
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Months later I fasted and, as I said, shifted bucketloads of parasites from a few millimetres in size to very large garden earth worm size!!
serious?!? did you do enemas or something? and that made you better?... how do we know that parasites are bad?
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It probably depends on what you got.
I was writhing in agony after eating a lot of non paleo sushi.
I tried many different approaches to cure my lower bowel inflammation (a slight tap of my a** and the pain radiates inside).
Of course I tried raw meat first. (no difference)
Then tried fruit. (made it worse)
Then tried fully cooked fatty pork (that worked really fast).
I don't really know why cooked fatty pork soothed my bowel inflammation that time, but it did. I mentioned my stumbling onto this solution to another person in a cooked paleo diet forum and it worked for him too.
Some things are just trial and error.
GS - So, did you eat solely fatty pork for some duration of time?... how long? what initial foods did you go to from there?
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Why should I avoid eating carbs with meat? Is this due to ph levels in the stomach?
Your body uses different enzymes to break down the carbs versus the meat & fat. If both are consumed in the same meal digestion is compromised for both. ;)
Welcome to the forum Spearhead. :)
I think Van's really hit the basics right on the head.
So long as you eat quality raw meat and especially quality raw fat your body will heal. The other variables of quantities, percentages, etc. will resolve themselves in time. Each body is different so we can all share our experiences to help guide you but the ultimate advice is to listen closely to your body.
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Tyler, thanks for your reply. My understanding was that only certain parasites can form a symbiotic relationship with us whereas others will always be harmful. What exactly causes the parasites to drain the host organism on a cooked meat diet while not doing so on a raw diet? Is it not that there are simply more nutrients to go around but the parasite continues to drain the host regardless?
It's not just that. The problem is that a cooked diet also weakens the body(re immune-system etc.) making it less resistant to a parasite. Another issue is the environment. For example, RVAFers have no issues with eating "high-meat"(aged raw(ie rotting) meats) because the bacteria live in a healthy environment(ie raw grassfed meats). On the other hand, the worst thing one can do is to eat well-aged, cooked meats rich in bacteria as the bacteria then become deadly due to the unhealthy environment they are in(close contact with toxins from the cooked food) - anyway, that's why canned foods are so connected to serious food-poisoning cases.
Also, what is the real cause of food poisoning? Are there no cases of food poisoning caused by raw meat?
Again, it's a question of the environment. As pointed out previously in this article:-
http://jacksonville.com/business/2009-11-08/story/florida_oyster_advocates_fuming_over_fda_treatment_0
the people who die or are seriously affected by food-poisoning from raw animal foods are precisely those people who've been on cooked diets for years and have suffered very serious health-problems such as diabetes, heart-disease etc. etc. In other words, if they's been eating RVAF diets, the absolute worst they'd have suffered from raw animal foods would have been a slight digestive upset or the like, and then only very rarely.
Re metabolic typing, although Walcott follows Sally Fallon's nutritional principles pretty closely, I was more referring to how carb, protein, and fat ratios are distributed along an either predominately high protein and fat/low carb, high carb, low fat and protein, or mixed type. The claim behind it seems to be that certain people do better with different ratios and require less of one group than the other. I don't see how excluding dairy and grains would necessarily exclude the idea 100%, although I'll admit following a metabolic type has not improved my digestion or energy at all but that is likely due to other underlying causes.
Agreed some people have particular issues with carbs or animal fats due to unusual past health-problems.
As to ZC, I don't think I would do well on such a diet, I think my goal is to go for an Omnivorous RPD supplementing my protein and fats with plenty of vegetable and fruit carbs.
Yeah, ZC is more restrictive and more difficult to implement, among other issues.
In any case, I've thought a good place to start would be to start supplementing my cooked diet by eating some raw liver and see how I do, and if it gives me the benefits I'm looking for then I can build from there. Do you think this might be a good way to help me get some relief? Incidentally, the Chek practitioner I'm working with is not against eating raw meats but he has told me that since I have a compromised gut immunity I run risks given that there are going to be unknown microbes on my meat that may harm me. Personally I think this sounds a bit questionable, what's the RPD science to refute this type of argument?
If you look at the various websites promoting grassfed meats you'll find studies showing that bacteria in grassfed meats are more healthy than grainfed meats(eatwild.com has a significant section telling of studies).
I would strongly recommend that you get used to raw, fresh muscle-meats first as that's the path most newbies prefer to take. Raw organ-meats have a stronger taste(as they have higher nuteient-levels than raw muscle-meats) so best to get used to the raw muscle-meats first and try the raw organ-meats later. Besides, most people find raw liver(even grassfed) to take the longest of all the raw animal parts to get used to).
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GS - So, did you eat solely fatty pork for some duration of time?... how long? what initial foods did you go to from there?
Just one big cooked slow roasted fatty pork meal at lunch made me sleep like a baby on day 1.
I took another of the same commercial slow roasted fatty pork meal the 2nd day.
That was it. Finished.
I blogged about my suffering here http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/08/02/restaurant-sushi-made-me-awfully-sick-for-a-few-days/
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Besides, most people find raw liver(even grassfed) to take the longest of all the raw animal parts to get used to).
Really? I'd imagine it'd be the spleen or kidneys as they're stronger flavored IMO. I still can't eat raw spleen but tolerate and/or enjoy the rest just fine.
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Really? I'd imagine it'd be the spleen or kidneys as they're stronger flavored IMO. I still can't eat raw spleen but tolerate and/or enjoy the rest just fine.
I'm fine with spleen, kidney if it's fresh, testicle I can't see, too fishy. I think organs are a sometimes thing. We are omnivores. In the wild we wouldn't go around killing a dozen animals and only eating the spleens. We would eat a variety, and not kill as many.
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Your body uses different enzymes to break down the carbs versus the meat & fat. If both are consumed in the same meal digestion is compromised for both. ;)
Welcome to the forum Spearhead. :)
I think Van's really hit the basics right on the head.
So long as you eat quality raw meat and especially quality raw fat your body will heal. The other variables of quantities, percentages, etc. will resolve themselves in time. Each body is different so we can all share our experiences to help guide you but the ultimate advice is to listen closely to your body.
Hi djr,
Do you mind telling me how you work out your carbs and proteins throughout the day then? Do you eat only carbs for lunch and then proteins at dinner? Or do you just have multiple meals throughout the day?
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Hi djr,
Do you mind telling me how you work out your carbs and proteins throughout the day then? Do you eat only carbs for lunch and then proteins at dinner? Or do you just have multiple meals throughout the day?
No problem. :)
I'm one of the zero-carb raw members here on the board. Mind you, this isn't by choice but necessity due to a mix of food allergies and suspected Candida overgrowth. If I could eat some carbs without problems I'd most definitely have some fruit to supplement my diet but alas I can't, at least for the time being.
My typical day will involve a good size meal (~1 pound of meat with 1/4 pound or so of fat, all raw) eaten anywhere from 8am-12pm depending on my energy left over from the previous night's meal as well as if I've done any stenuous work that morning.
If I'm doing a lot of energy expending work (either physical exercise or just mental energy as my job [project manager for an architectural firm] sometimes takes a lot of heavy thinking), or the quality of my meat is less than optimal (I've noticed I personally get less nourishment from previously frozen meat as opposed to fresh) I may need another meal 4-5 hours later of close to the same size.
Dinner is another meal of generally the same size but with a conscious effort to include a bit more fat as it's much more sustaining for me.
As time has gone on I've shifted from more frequent tiny meals to two larger meals in general each day. I attribute this wholly to my processing the fat better.
If I could eat carbs I'd eat a large meal of meat and fat in the mornings, a light snack of some fruit at ~3PMish as any glycemic shift wouldn't interfere with much of my work day, and a large meal of meat/fat at 6-7PM. This would give plenty of digestion time at each meal and should be very sustaining for the body. :)
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Mind you, this isn't by choice but necessity due to a mix of food allergies and suspected Candida overgrowth. If I could eat some carbs without problems I'd most definitely have some fruit to supplement my diet but alas I can't, at least for the time being.
Ditto! I'm enjoying much stabilised energy throughout the day since going zc/vlc but initially started it only to deal with suspected major candida problems. It certainly seems to greatly help with the symptoms of this also.
serious?!? did you do enemas or something? and that made you better?... how do we know that parasites are bad?
I don't think we do know that parasites are bad. My own opinion is that some are and some aren't. By 'cleaning the slate' through fasting I was better able to determine whether the parasites were required for some internal cleaning after following an improved post-fast diet. If they were needed they'd soon be back! :) Yes, you're correct. I did utilise daily enemas during the fast. I wouldn't recommend their use at any other time other than in the fasting state. The whole regime certainly did help. I felt better after completion than I have ever felt before or after in my entire 38 years of life!
Really? I'd imagine it'd be the spleen or kidneys as they're stronger flavored IMO. I still can't eat raw spleen but tolerate and/or enjoy the rest just fine.
I agree. Kidney just tastes of pure urine to me and, clearly, is not at all appetising!! Liver is ok in small quantities. I tend to blend it into a drink. Heart is quite meat-like in texture and rather bland. The easiest organ to eat regularly I find.
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So yesterday I had raw eggs for the first time and loved them. I also had some vegetable juice with mostly cabbage to help heal my gut. I had virtually no reaction to either one and my gut has been quiet for the first time in many many weeks. For dinner I had some raw ground bison with some raw honey and I felt relaxed and calm a couple hours afterwards. My approach is going to be to follow sort of a healing regimen as designed by AV (no dairy though of course) and when I'm better I can tinker my diet and explore more RPD configurations. The only negative is my detox process has caused my anxiety and disassociation to go through the roof as my body prepares to eliminate all the waste. Hopefully today I can go to the bathroom a couple of times at least and get rid of all the waste. My stools right now have been very pale in color which I guess indicates a lack of bile output? Anyways I'll keep this updated.
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No problem. :)
I'm one of the zero-carb raw members here on the board. Mind you, this isn't by choice but necessity due to a mix of food allergies and suspected Candida overgrowth. If I could eat some carbs without problems I'd most definitely have some fruit to supplement my diet but alas I can't, at least for the time being.
My typical day will involve a good size meal (~1 pound of meat with 1/4 pound or so of fat, all raw) eaten anywhere from 8am-12pm depending on my energy left over from the previous night's meal as well as if I've done any stenuous work that morning.
If I'm doing a lot of energy expending work (either physical exercise or just mental energy as my job [project manager for an architectural firm] sometimes takes a lot of heavy thinking), or the quality of my meat is less than optimal (I've noticed I personally get less nourishment from previously frozen meat as opposed to fresh) I may need another meal 4-5 hours later of close to the same size.
Dinner is another meal of generally the same size but with a conscious effort to include a bit more fat as it's much more sustaining for me.
As time has gone on I've shifted from more frequent tiny meals to two larger meals in general each day. I attribute this wholly to my processing the fat better.
If I could eat carbs I'd eat a large meal of meat and fat in the mornings, a light snack of some fruit at ~3PMish as any glycemic shift wouldn't interfere with much of my work day, and a large meal of meat/fat at 6-7PM. This would give plenty of digestion time at each meal and should be very sustaining for the body. :)
Fast way to cure candida is with VCO detox (if you are not allergic to VCO). Cured my candida in 3 days.
See http://www.tinyurl.com/vcodetox
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Fast way to cure candida is with VCO detox (if you are not allergic to VCO). Cured my candida in 3 days.
See http://www.tinyurl.com/vcodetox
Can't, allergic to coconuts. I'm also allergic/intolerant to basically plant matter in general so all of the herbal remedies I've read up on over the years would do more harm than any good. Saturated animal fat is working well enough for me. :)
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Hey Guys,
I want to know if the following symptoms are common for a detox. I've been having itchiness and darkened vision, general fatigue, and stools have often been a bit pale or slightly green but diarrhea has not been constant. My anxiety right now has been through the roof and only subsides a bit after eating raw meats (before it was the opposite), but I also get heavy gas or a heartburn feeling (but no bloating or inflamation) after my meals. If anyone can shed some light on this I'd appreciate it. I know I still have a long way to go as I've only been raw for 8 days, but any encouragement or insight would be very helpful.
I should also add I have two contaminants in my body. Two mercury amalgam fillings left in my mouth to remove and I am also slowly tapering off of the white poison Lexapro an SSRI which I've been on for 4 years.
I probably also have chlorine toxicity from 4 years of high school swimming.
Thanks
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Hey Guys,
I want to know if the following symptoms are common for a detox. I've been having itchiness and darkened vision, general fatigue, and stools have often been a bit pale or slightly green but diarrhea has not been constant. My anxiety right now has been through the roof and only subsides a bit after eating rat meats (before it was the opposite), but I also get heavy gas or a heartburn feeling (but no bloating or inflamation) after my meals.
I wish I could help you here. I have no first hand experience with rat meats. Do you mean raw meats? I heard rat meat can be useful in healing, but I don't know anyone who ate rat raw or even ate meat from any regular size rat.
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I wish I could help you here. I have no first hand experience wit rat meats. Do you mean raw meats? I heard rat meat can be useful in healing, but I don't know anyone who ate rat raw or even ate meat from any regular size rat.
;D Sorry for the typo. Yeah I mean raw meats, I'm not at the stage to eat rat yet.
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My anxiety right now has been through the roof and only subsides a bit after eating raw meats (before it was the opposite), but I also get heavy gas or a heartburn feeling (but no bloating or inflamation) after my meals. If anyone can shed some light on this I'd appreciate it.
Were you practicing omnivore diet or vegetarian diet before? Were you getting bloating or inflammation before you changed diets?
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Were you practicing omnivore diet or vegetarian diet before? Were you getting bloating or inflammation before you changed diets?
Omnivore, Weston a price type diet. I had horrible inflammation.
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I should also mention I've had crazy mouth and canker sores, all inside my mouth, and an increase in acne and zits. Also, I get some small mosquito bite size itchy bumps on my stomach. Are these signs of detox?
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It could be. Grain makes toxic fat and organs. WAP is big on whole grains I think.
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My PH level is more alkalized than usual, and I feel like I have some acid reflux. I think this might be from one of two things. Either eating too much raw honey or the small amount of raw kefir which I have (which I know many here shun). I'm going to try dropping them and see what happens.
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eating too much raw honey
People here aren't too big on sweets. Number one, your honey may not be unheated. Number two, even so, it should only be used sparingly. Then, kefir, may not be paleo, but I've never seen it raw in a store. I tried store-bought kefir once, and although it was "fresh as can be" it stank to my nose. I'm very sensitive to smells especially dairy. Did you make the kefir? And if so, what kind of "grains"?
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People here aren't too big on sweets. Number one, your honey may not be unheated. Number two, even so, it should only be used sparingly. Then, kefir, may not be paleo, but I've never seen it raw in a store. I tried store-bought kefir once, and although it was "fresh as can be" it stank to my nose. I'm very sensitive to smells especially dairy. Did you make the kefir? And if so, what kind of "grains"?
The honey is unheated but you are right I might be overdoing it. But for this to cause acid reflux seems a bit odd. The Kefir is super high quality from an amish farmer and tastes very good. Any recipes for acid reflux?
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I got sores around my mouth big time in the days I consumed dairy. Get rid of the kefir. What other foods do you eat other than those mentioned?
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Any recipes for acid reflux?
Here are 2 women I helped cure of acid reflux:
http://www.curelibrary.com/blog/health-notes/25-year-old-young-mother-cured-of-acid-reflux/
http://www.curelibrary.com/blog/health-notes/antacid-addict-cured-of-acid-reflux-via-herbal-colon-cleansing/
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The honey is unheated but you are right I might be overdoing it. But for this to cause acid reflux seems a bit odd. The Kefir is super high quality from an amish farmer and tastes very good. Any recipes for acid reflux?
The only Amish kefir I got, although fresh from the farm, was disgusting. Biodynamic at home is the only palatable to me.
Have you tried making bonemeal?
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I got sores around my mouth big time in the days I consumed dairy. Get rid of the kefir. What other foods do you eat other than those mentioned?
I'm eating a lot of raw ground bison meat, raw ground lamb, and raw ground turkey along with some bison organs with a lot of avocado for the fats, especially with the bison. I eat a lot of ground meats to ease my digestion, eventually I will try slicing my own muscle meats. I tried raw chicken the other day and hated it. Lots of raw eggs as well. For carbs I'm doing the PD style green juices with mostly celery, I know most people don't like them, but I have had a good reaction to them and I feel like my digestion is eased by having it in liquid form.
Basically, I'm not too dependent on dairy, I'd been using the kefir because I had it available. The only dairy I plan to keep using is unsalted butter and an occasional raw swiss cheese as I never have a problem with either of these and I enjoy how they make me feel. Liquid and cream form dairy doesn't seem to work for me at all, at least not in the current state of my gut. I've been overdoing the raw honey I think, but it has helped me clear my throat and mucus a bit.
The big problem now is my acid reflux, I'm going to stop the kefir and limit the honey to see what happens.
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For carbs I'm doing the PD style green juices with mostly celery, I know most people don't like them, but I have had a good reaction to them and I feel like my digestion is eased by having it in liquid form.
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The big problem now is my acid reflux, I'm going to stop the kefir and limit the honey to see what happens.
If you're doing the green juice anyway, have you tried cabbage and parsley juiced along with it, then when the juice is ready stir/blend cucumber into it. That might be a better green juice for your stomach right now. For me, if and when I juice, cilantro and zucchini are my best additions if any.
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Well I've reached another low. Feeling really tired and fatigued today. Stomach is not really inflammed, but the acid build up is still there and I have itchiness and rash in different parts of my body. I bought some bentonite clay to see if I can cleanse my colon out and I'm going to get some terramin clays which I know is superior to arrive by monday. I need to reverse this and quick because I can barely function right now, it takes all of my effort just to drive to work.
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I bought some bentonite clay to see if I can cleanse my colon out and I'm going to get some terramin clays which I know is superior to arrive by monday.
Uh, you will likely have a good experience with bentonite. Have you tried it before? I have. Most people into health say it's good. I only tried one teaspoon once though, exactly in the manner recommended. I got sicker than ever apparently as the result. Bentonite is heated. If it were me right now, I would wait for the terramin or find something else in the meantime. Can't you take today off and just bundle up in a simple blanket for twenty-four hours? (close to the bathroom). Have you tried charcoal or do you have some good organic earth (unheated)? I know charcoal isn't raw, but it has helped me in extreme situations and is ancient and traditional.
Maybe you eating all your meats preground from the store is the problem. I could never do that. It gives me weird nightmares.
I'm also curious to know if you think a Metabolic type diet as developed by Dr. William Walcott is compatible with RPD? I for one am a bit skeptical of ZC even though I believe the human diet should be largely protein based.
Any help you guys can give would be awesome.
Fat based works for me. I do best at about eighty-percent fat. Feels like I get rabbit starvation otherwise.
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Uh, you will likely have a good experience with bentonite. Have you tried it before? I have. Most people into health say it's good. I only tried one teaspoon once though, exactly in the manner recommended. I got sicker than ever apparently as the result. Bentonite is heated. If it were me right now, I would wait for the terramin or find something else in the meantime. Can't you take today off and just bundle up in a simple blanket for twenty-four hours? (close to the bathroom). Have you tried charcoal or do you have some good organic earth (unheated)? I know charcoal isn't raw, but it has helped me in extreme situations and is ancient and traditional.
Maybe you eating all your meats preground from the store is the problem. I could never do that. It gives me weird nightmares.
I get all my meat from US Wellness meats and North Star Bison. I don't think the meats are the problem, I think something else is causing this. I'll wait for the terramin then and hope to get better. The major thing is not only am I fatigued, but without being able to really digest my fats, my adrenals get no relief, so I am very anxious, feel disassociated and like I'm going to fall asleep or pass out. And no, I can't really take off of work, my job is not very understanding about stuff like this, and anyways I could very well feel the same tomorrow for all I know.
For the time being I'm just going to eat nothing but eggs and sip chamomile tea. If I feel better this afternoon I'll eat a little raw lamb. It's really frustrating how many setbacks I keep having, everytime I think I'm better I get setback exponentially it seems.
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I get all my meat from US Wellness meats and North Star Bison. I don't think the meats are the problem, I think something else is causing this. I'll wait for the terramin then and hope to get better. The major thing is not only am I fatigued, but without being able to really digest my fats, my adrenals get no relief, so I am very anxious, feel disassociated and like I'm going to fall asleep or pass out. And no, I can't really take off of work, my job is not very understanding about stuff like this, and anyways I could very well feel the same tomorrow for all I know.
I think you had mentioned it's US Wellness. I must have forgotten. Even so, with the best of ground meats that aajonus would buy himself in best case scenario and ate it only an hour later, I won't even try it a second time. Maybe mine was too high in fat for me too. If I ever grind my meat, I prefer to grind it within only a few short minutes of when I eat it. I have never ground meat if the meat had been wrapped in any kind of celophane. It might be fine, but something unconscious in side me I don't think thinks that.
The lying in bed is not because you are impaired from working. I took dahn energy classes. When I was not able to do anything I called them and told them so. They told me to stay in bed 24 hr straight bundled up warm to GET BETTER. I did so, and it worked. Sometimes a total rest is what's o tn order to heal. Animals do it. We probably would in paleo times too, we just had to find some out of the way nook.
Do you think you should go to a healthcare practitioner, doctor or some other outside help to see you in person?
For the time being I'm just going to eat nothing but eggs and sip chamomile tea. If I feel better this afternoon I'll eat a little raw lamb. It's really frustrating how many setbacks I keep having, everytime I think I'm better I get setback exponentially it seems.
Get well soon.
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I think you had mentioned it's US Wellness. I must have forgotten. Even so, with the best of ground meats that aajonus would buy himself in best case scenario and ate it only an hour later, I won't even try it a second time. Maybe mine was too high in fat for me too. If I ever grind my meat, I prefer to grind it within only a few short minutes of when I eat it. I have never ground meat if the meat had been wrapped in any kind of celophane. It might be fine, but something unconscious in side me I don't think thinks that.
The lying in bed is not because you are impaired from working. I took dahn energy classes. When I was not able to do anything I called them and told them so. They told me to stay in bed 24 hr straight bundled up warm to GET BETTER. I did so, and it worked. Sometimes a total rest is what's o tn order to heal. Animals do it. We probably would in paleo times too, we just had to find some out of the way nook.
Do you think you should go to a healthcare practitioner, doctor or some other outside help to see you in person?
Get well soon.
Thanks for your support! I don't really feel super ill actually, at least not in the normal sense of a flu or bug, I am just tired and dazed and super anxious from lack of good digestion. I feel confident that if I can get rid of this over acidity I can really start to heal and take major strides. Any health practitioner is just going to give me useless herbs or worse yet, drugs, when I need to fix the internal problem going on. I think if I just have smaller meals spaced out more, and I drink a little less in green juices, and use the clay on monday, I'll be able to recover 100%.
What I want to know if someone could help is, what is the underlying reason this is happening? Is it bacteria proliferation taking out the junk? Is this some form of detoxing going on? I really want to get to the heart of the matter. I should clarify, it's overacidity that is the problem, I'm not having much reflux anymore.
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Thanks for your support! ... Any health practitioner is just going to give me useless herbs or worse yet, drugs, when I need to fix the internal problem going on. ... I should clarify, it's overacidity that is the problem, I'm not having much reflux anymore.
You're welcome.
I actually had other stuff health-wise going on too, but the day I described I was totally fatigued.
I remember, well, my son got sick a few years ago, and after trying everything alternative we could find, we then were trying with a doctor.
This doctor gave him about eight different types of medicines all at the same time. My son's digestion got totally ruined when previously it was mostly only reflux during this illness. Anyway, the doctor was wrong and to save my son from possible death my son and I decided he should not take four of the medicine and go to a good traditional acupuncturist.
One treatment, and his digestion was worlds better.
I hear acupuncture started when soldiers looked dead during a battle, and they were laid at the side on rocks to keep the bodies out of the way until after the battle, or something like that. I don't know if it's true. Anyway, enough of them would recover from appearing dead after laying on the rocks. Supposedly acupuncture was developed by observing this. So, I think something based on rocks might be considered somewhat paleo.
Have you tried acupuncture? No pharmaceuticals involved and my son got well enough even though he did not drink the acupuncturist's herbs.
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You're welcome.
I actually had other stuff health-wise going on too, but the day I described I was totally fatigued.
I remember, well, my son got sick a few years ago, and after trying everything alternative we could find, we then were trying with a doctor.
This doctor gave him about eight different types of medicines all at the same time. My son's digestion got totally ruined when previously it was mostly only reflux during this illness. Anyway, the doctor was wrong and to save my son from possible death my son and I decided he should not take four of the medicine and go to a good traditional acupuncturist.
One treatment, and his digestion was worlds better.
I hear acupuncture started when soldiers looked dead during a battle, and they were laid at the side on rocks to keep the bodies out of the way until after the battle, or something like that. I don't know if it's true. Anyway, enough of them would recover from appearing dead after laying on the rocks. Supposedly acupuncture was developed by observing this. So, I think something based on rocks might be considered somewhat paleo.
Have you tried acupuncture? No pharmaceuticals involved and my son got well enough even though he did not drink the acupuncturist's herbs.
Yeah I have an acupuncturist and it does help. I might try to schedule something for tomorrow if I can. He's not as traditional as most though. I just wish I had a clear cut plan of what to do to get better. Food sensitivities is an issue always in the back of my mind too. I'm supposedly moderately sensitive to eggs (probably less for raw) and honey (again, likely less for raw) and yet both of these are the staples of any digestional healing regimen. The itching I get in my throat and in small places all over my body after eating is really unnerving and tells me something is wrong, and yet just a few days ago my stomach was incredibly calm. I think I'm going to try my chicken broth for a while and eat ground turkey, and let the raw eggs aside, they might not be helping. For all I know they are what caused the problem!
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I just wish I had a clear cut plan of what to do to get better. Food sensitivities is an issue always in the back of my mind too. I'm supposedly moderately sensitive to eggs (probably less for raw) and honey (again, likely less for raw) and yet both of these are the staples of any digestional healing regimen. The itching I get in my throat and in small places all over my body after eating is really unnerving and tells me something is wrong, and yet just a few days ago my stomach was incredibly calm. I think I'm going to try my chicken broth for a while and eat ground turkey, and let the raw eggs aside, they might not be helping. For all I know they are what caused the problem!
I know someone who also reacts to raw eggs, is a raw omnivore who drinks green juices, reverts from raw diet to cooked chicken soup when they can't take the detox etc. I would think it was you, but I don't think it is. I think from experience that sets of symptoms come together, no matter who it's often the same sets. Maybe I should introduce you, maybe you could help each other.
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Actually scratch what I just said above. I think it's more a question of stomach acidity causing itchiness. I've just had some raw ground lamb which I supposedly have no tolerance to and I still have some itching. Could this be a detox by some chance?
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I'm supposedly moderately sensitive to eggs (probably less for raw) and honey (again, likely less for raw) and yet both of these are the staples of any digestional healing regimen.
Not true. Some of us here on the forum eschew both of these and have still made marked strides in repairing our digestion and our health. :)
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Raw meat can give us what we need to heal the intestines and stomach. Did someone prescribe you eggs and honey? It was actually prescribed to me, and it did help me. But I had to get a glandular analysis, an iridology consult and everything else to get the script. I've met people who got very different prescriptions to what I got, but they had their body, and me mine.
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Not true. Some of us here on the forum eschew both of these and have still made marked strides in repairing our digestion and our health. :)
True. I'll just have to keep trying to see what can bring me the balance I need. I might do a consult with AV as well if I'm not better within a week. I do well with Raw cheese nd raw butter anyways.
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I know someone who also reacts to raw eggs, is a raw omnivore who drinks green juices, reverts from raw diet to cooked chicken soup when they can't take the detox etc. I would think it was you, but I don't think it is. I think from experience that sets of symptoms come together, no matter who it's often the same sets. Maybe I should introduce you, maybe you could help each other.
Interesting, two people who consume green juices--one gets "detox" and other symptoms and one gets acidic stomach and other symptoms, right? When one of them takes a break from the green juices and eats cooked chicken soup instead, the "detox" symptoms go away, correct? I myself used to get reflux when I drank too much green tea, which went away when I went raw carnivore. Is this just a coincidence or could there possibly be a connection between green drinks and GI symptoms for all three of us?
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probably most of us here have done green juices at one time or another. one thing came clear to me after a while, long while. that is that if I tried to chew and swallow the juice (spitting out the pulp) from any one of the greens I was using, at first it would be palatable, then in a short while, I would have to force myself to chew and swallow any significant amount. Far less than had I juiced it in a machine, and especially if I had mixed it with say celery or apple or carrot etc. I think the intestinal distress is simply the body trying to get rid of what it doesn't need or want. When we juice with machines rather than our own mouths, we bypass the stop that tells us when we've had enough, for it then becomes a mind thing, like, 'green juice will make me so and so...' and then there are the more is better thoughts.
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probably most of us here have done green juices at one time or another. one thing came clear to me after a while, long while. that is that if I tried to chew and swallow the juice (spitting out the pulp) from any one of the greens I was using, at first it would be palatable, then in a short while, I would have to force myself to chew and swallow any significant amount. Far less than had I juiced it in a machine, and especially if I had mixed it with say celery or apple or carrot etc. I think the intestinal distress is simply the body trying to get rid of what it doesn't need or want. When we juice with machines rather than our own mouths, we bypass the stop that tells us when we've had enough, for it then becomes a mind thing, like, 'green juice will make me so and so...' and then there are the more is better thoughts.
Theory sounds good.
But I never liked juicing.
I tried it, but I like chewing on celery better or eating a carrot stick.
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So I'm pretty much itching after everything I eat and my mouth and skin are very dried out. I'm feeling dehydrated and of course regular water does nothing for me but make me feel more dry. I've had a little success with papaya in a puree so far, but the itchiness remains. Must be my gastric juices being insufficient at this point? This is really becoming disconcerting.
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... itching after everything I eat and my mouth and skin are very dried out. I'm feeling dehydrated and of course regular water does nothing for me but make me feel more dry. I've had a little success with papaya in a puree so far, but the itchiness ...
My skin used to itch so much, and I barely noticed it, as it had been going on so long, I had no idea what it felt like not to it. I believe the careful attention to type of fat, source of fat and quantity of fat has abated my itching. Exactly how much of what source fat are you using in ratio to the rest of your food?
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Raw meat can give us what we need to heal the intestines and stomach. Did someone prescribe you eggs and honey? It was actually prescribed to me, and it did help me. But I had to get a glandular analysis, an iridology consult and everything else to get the script. I've met people who got very different prescriptions to what I got, but they had their body, and me mine.
dear rawzi, my mom has severe thyroid problem and she gets high cholesterol for this. she also has gum disease, sinusitis, rheumatism arthritis and recently she diagnosed for osteoporosis. where she can go to get some kind of tests like you and will know what to eat? thanks.
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probably most of us here have done green juices at one time or another. one thing came clear to me after a while, long while. that is that if I tried to chew and swallow the juice (spitting out the pulp) from any one of the greens I was using, at first it would be palatable, then in a short while, I would have to force myself to chew and swallow any significant amount. Far less than had I juiced it in a machine, and especially if I had mixed it with say celery or apple or carrot etc. I think the intestinal distress is simply the body trying to get rid of what it doesn't need or want. When we juice with machines rather than our own mouths, we bypass the stop that tells us when we've had enough, for it then becomes a mind thing, like, 'green juice will make me so and so...' and then there are the more is better thoughts.
I agree with GS--interesting hypothesis.
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dear rawzi, my mom has severe thyroid problem and she gets high cholesterol for this. she also has gum disease, sinusitis, rheumatism arthritis and recently she diagnosed for osteoporosis. where she can go to get some kind of tests like you and will know what to eat? thanks.
Aajonus did my iridology and glandular analysis.
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Tell me how you do now that you're not going to marinate. Plain is almost always better, especially with raw red meat.
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Aajonus did my iridology and glandular analysis.
do you have his contact number? dear rawzi, my mom is coming to see my little boy in this christmas vacation for 2 weeks. i want to do those tests for her.
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So I think I've entered a new stage in my recovery. I've started having lots of diarrhea today and yesterday and generally feel sick and a tad bit warm, but not yet feverish. The good news is, my stomach is for the most part calm now. I think I brought this on by not marinating my meats in lemon anymore. It has eliminated my acid reflux and horrible dryness. Itching on skin has for the most part subsided. Strangely, even though I am still fatigued and feel sickly, I also feel pretty calm, I guess my high adrenaline can't kick in in this state.
I'm actually strangely optimistic now even though I feel pretty much like I have the flu, although I'm not sure I actually do to be honest. Bad news is my mom is going to be crashing at my pad this week, and she is super anti-raw anything, so I am going to have to sneak most of my meals at work.
Overall, is my optimism justified?
I'm hoping I'm near the end of the storm. In any case, cleaning myself out like this can't be a bad thing per se.
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do you have his contact number? dear rawzi, my mom is coming to see my little boy in this christmas vacation for 2 weeks. i want to do those tests for her.
Here, I Googled this and I know this to be an address he has been reached at and sent email from even recently. I do not see his phone number public anywhere.
On this note, it is unfortunately getting harder and harder to find raw milk due to germophobic agencies like the California Dairy Board, who, although they are supposed to only be "regulating" the production and sale of raw milk, are actually on an offensive to outlaw it. This is an outrage and if you care to invest in preserving your right to raw milk and other products, you can do something about it. Write to Aajonus Vonderplanitz at optimal@earthlink.net and tell him you want to join the class action suit he is waging. You can write the California legislators, even if you don't live in California. Tell them you have friends who live there who benefit from raw dairy and you don't want to see it banned. California sets the precedent for other states frequently, so it will be an investment in your own health, too. We hope to have a page up soon just to address this issue in more depth.
Raw goat milk is another alternative, and is often more easily accessible through local small farmers who sell their excess. Call your 4-H extension to find them (if you live in the USA). For more information on this topic, read WWTL. We will also be adding a FAQ site specifically addressing the issue of finding foods on this diet that aren't readily available in supermarkets or even health food stores. Aajonus said to ask any local farmer you might be wanting to buy from if the cows/goats had any antibiotics within the last 30 days which you won't want to be passed on to you through the milk.
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So I think I've entered a new stage in my recovery. I've started having lots of diarrhea today and yesterday and generally feel sick and a tad bit warm, but not yet feverish. The good news is, my stomach is for the most part calm now. I think I brought this on by not marinating my meats in lemon anymore. It has eliminated my acid reflux and horrible dryness. Itching on skin has for the most part subsided. Strangely, even though I am still fatigued and feel sickly, I also feel pretty calm, I guess my high adrenaline can't kick in in this state.
I'm actually strangely optimistic now ...
Overall, is my optimism justified?
I'm hoping I'm near the end of the storm. In any case, cleaning myself out like this can't be a bad thing per se.
When I started eating RAF, I pretty much got diarrhea for a month. I felt good though, for the first time in maybe ever. It gives a better outlook, in my experience as well. It got me feeling calm right away too, which had been more of a struggle for me before. It worked out well too. I never got the parasite I thought I risked by starting the RAF lifestyle. Although I still practice eating RAF, parasites must be avoiding me now. The must think I'm a plague to them, if they can think. Maybe they are not attracted to healthy strong bodies.
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So it turns out I have a liver and pancreatic deficiency caused by a serious colon problem (low bifidobactor, ph balance off, etc.). Aajonus has perscribed me lots of cheese hourly to absorb toxins I am dumping into my gut as well as lots of eggs. So far I would say I am about 10% better than what I was. This weekend I ran for 1 hour nonstop almost instinctively and felt pretty good, but then of course I am still having my noontime energy drop indicative of stage 2 adrenal fatigue, which Aajonus says, and I believe, is really just a side effect of my bad digestion and nothing really chronic. I still have a lot of healing to do however. I still need to cleanse out a lot of the fungal infection caused by the ssri lexapro (which I'm now completely off of) though itching is substantially less now. Still have mouth sours and some gum bleeding, but at least I have regained 10 lbs back to 170 after losing enormous amounts of weight from the flu in early December. I also had my first piece of high meat today, fermented outside for a month, but I didn't really feel any high or anything much, I suppose it needs more time still.
My only question for you guys is, given that most of you are abstaining from dairy, I wanted to know what your typical raw dairy allergies are like? I seem to not get any discernible difference between consuming dairy and not doing so, so I don't think I have the raw dairy allergies, plus right now raw cheese is really helpful for me to absorb those toxins.
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Well, my own (raw-and pasteurised dairy-allergies manifested themselves in all sorts of ways, indeed they were the primary source of my troubles other than the cooked animal food. My chronic fatigue/anxiety- and other adrenal-related issues were directly the result of raw and pasteurised dairy as were various skin and eye-problems(eg:- severely bloodshot eyes), along with the severe constipation and wrecked digestive system(though, to be fair, the dairy was worse than any cooked animal food I ate, as regards constipation). Dairy, raw or otherwise, also almost made me lose all my teeth, led to severe muscle-wastage etc. After many years, I've come to accept that a small minority may do well on raw dairy, but I'm pretty sure it's a tiny minority, given the fact that so many of those who've claimed to me that they were doing fine on a little raw dairy, have, subsequently, over the years, grudgingly admitted to me, that they didn't do so well after all, with it, and felt better without.
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Well, my own (raw-and pasteurised dairy-allergies manifested themselves in all sorts of ways, indeed they were the primary source of my troubles other than the cooked animal food. My chronic fatigue/anxiety- and other adrenal-related issues were directly the result of raw and pasteurised dairy as were various skin and eye-problems(eg:- severely bloodshot eyes), along with the severe constipation and wrecked digestive system(though, to be fair, the dairy was worse than any cooked animal food I ate, as regards constipation). Dairy, raw or otherwise, also almost made me lose all my teeth, led to severe muscle-wastage etc. After many years, I've come to accept that a small minority may do well on raw dairy, but I'm pretty sure it's a tiny minority, given the fact that so many of those who've claimed to me that they were doing fine on a little raw dairy, have, subsequently, over the years, grudgingly admitted to me, that they didn't do so well after all, with it, and felt better without.
If this is the case and you really believe that the majority of people are allergic to raw dairy, what would you prescribe for someone like me that needs to be constantly absorbing and eliminating extremely caustic toxins being dumped into my stomach? Papaya is a poor substitute to raw unsalted cheese for this from what I know.
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just wanted to add that i experimented with some raw dairy a few weeks ago. i got (all from grass fed cows) raw butter, raw cream, raw buttermilk, and raw colostrum. the cream and butter digested with no problem and i actually felt really good eating the butter with other foods. the buttermilk and colostrum both tasted great but gave me a little constipation and a pimple. other than that i felt pretty good. anyways, it seems that i do very well on butter and cream but will only be getting those again very rarely (due to price and availability). but, im unsure whether i would still feel good eating raw dairy for an extended period of time. for some reason i can't see that going very well, even if it was just butter. but who the hell knows...
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AV almost 100 percent of the time looks at toxins as being the source of his clients problems and prescribes often very strict and hour by hour detailed instructions on how to heal and release toxins. I don't have really an direct experience with him, BUT, approaching health from the viewpoint of eliminating toxins can be a very addictive and lifelong process. One that he makes his 'living' off of. My only real hint here is that others here approach health by allowing the body to seek it's own balance by offering it a raw balanced fare, for eventually we all must find that for ourselves on a day to day basis.
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If this is the case and you really believe that the majority of people are allergic to raw dairy, what would you prescribe for someone like me that needs to be constantly absorbing and eliminating extremely caustic toxins being dumped into my stomach? Papaya is a poor substitute to raw unsalted cheese for this from what I know.
I tend to agree with van's view. I just don't see the constant detox that AV recommends as a good thing. Usually, a detox that lasts more than a short period is not a genuine detox but a sign of a really unhealthy raw food in your diet(eg:- raw dairy). Not to say that detox doesn't exist, it clearly does, just in a more minor, temporary form, IMO.
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AV almost 100 percent of the time looks at toxins as being the source of his clients problems and prescribes often very strict and hour by hour detailed instructions on how to heal and release toxins. I don't have really an direct experience with him, BUT, approaching health from the viewpoint of eliminating toxins can be a very addictive and lifelong process. One that he makes his 'living' off of. My only real hint here is that others here approach health by allowing the body to seek it's own balance by offering it a raw balanced fare, for eventually we all must find that for ourselves on a day to day basis.
We learn that every cell in our bodies has been replaced with new cells in 7 years.
Getting rid of the old damaged/worn out/poisoned cells is an automatic process, happens every day in healthy persons, and can reasonably be called detox.
When it does not happen automatically, we are sick, and for lack of what to do, need a consultant such as AV or the knowledge that we seek here.
Eating raw zero carb has been called heroic. Most people are not heroes, so AV can justly make a living from them.
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I am not sure what to think. On the one hand I am three weeks into AV's plan for me and I don't feel any real improvements, on the other hand I was on a pretty much RPD three weeks before AV and I didn't go through a "quick detox" either, I started getting heavy itching, fungal type reactions BEFORE I went to PD and that has now largely subsided. Since my stool test revealed I had a very abundant fungal infection and I just eliminated lexapro, it stands to reason I may need a longer time to fully eliminate the fungus as it runs its course. Also my colon has been having problems for years so I doubt a short detox period is realistic. That being said, AV said my type of heavy detox lasts up to 6 weeks. Since I am halfway through, if in three weeks I am still toxic, then I'll have to assume something is not working, and maybe start eliminating dairy products. In any case, my intention has never been to use PD (bar butter and maybe cheese) as a maintenance diet, but since I have a specific plan to follow for healing it seemed like a good initial option to follow to restore digestive integrity and give me back some of that flora I need to live (barring any heavy allergies which I don't think I have).
No offense intended Tyler but your claim that only a small minority can do well with raw dairy seems to me to be as unlikely as AV's claim that raw dairy allergies don't exist. I think the likelihood is there is a middle ground somewhere on this. However, I do believe RPD is better for long term health.
The one thing I'm curious about is that my stools now, though they are loose this week, are now green instead of pale, I wonder if this is a good sign indicating bile activity has picked up again?
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Why don't you just go for Cooked-meat Paleo first? That should get rid of your initial problems. That's what I did, but now after about a year of gradually fine-tuning my Cooked-meat Paleo, I've felt that raw meat is the next step for improvement. My next, after tuning that, will I expect be sourcing more and more pastured beef, and then by adding variety: Other animals and maybe some organs.
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Hi Spearhead,
I used to follow Aajonus in the case of raw dairy and kept trying and trying and trying. You can see my old posts in this forum. Raw dairy just doesn't work for me, I'm lactose intolerant. So those symptoms of my farting my guts out every time I drank dairy were signs of lactose intolerance.
Gut healers that worked for me were Bieler's soup and fully roasted pork loin. These aren't raw but they did the job really fast. Like 2 days.
Candida for me was eliminated in 3 days with vco detox. http://tinyurl.com/vcodetox if you are not allergic to virgin coconut oil.
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No offense intended Tyler but your claim that only a small minority can do well with raw dairy seems to me to be as unlikely as AV's claim that raw dairy allergies don't exist. I think the likelihood is there is a middle ground somewhere on this. However, I do believe RPD is better for long term health.
If you look at all the posts on the various forums, you will see, again and again, that the biggest health-issues reported with a RVAF diet are to do with raw dairy. And that's just those who are honest about it. I have encountered another large proportion of people who claim that raw dairy is the ultimate "detoxing" food, and one finds out, again and again, that such people only experience such nasty side-effects when they are consuming raw dairy as opposed to other raw foods, thus making it clear that they have some sort of allergy/food-intolerance towards it. Indeed, if you had a look at the closed Primal Diet yahoo group, you would find posts where people who claim to be fine on raw dairy, reluctantly admit that they need to supplement with magnesium supplements in order to counter the negative effects caused by the very high levels of calcium in raw dairy, so even that minority of people have some issues with it, unless they take steps to avoid certain consequences.
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If you look at all the posts on the various forums, you will see, again and again, that the biggest health-issues reported with a RVAF diet are to do with raw dairy. And that's just those who are honest about it. I have encountered another large proportion of people who claim that raw dairy is the ultimate "detoxing" food, and one find out, again and again, that such people only experience such nasty side-effects when they are consuming raw dairy as opposed to other raw foods....
I agree with Van and Tyler and I've noticed the same things Tyler has among raw dairy eaters and also among raw vegans--especially extreme raw fruitarians. You only have to compare the forum posts of raw vegan/fruitarian and AV followers to the posts of RPDers here to see that we RPDers tend to have far less "detox" issues like constipation/diarrhea, anxiety, depression, dry skin, acne, etc., etc. Like Tyler indicated, most of the "toxins" that need to be detoxed come from the foods the people are eating.
Most of the people I've encountered who are still having problems with Paleo are doing one or both of two things:
1) eating dairy (raw or otherwise)
2) eating lots of heavily-cooked foods
Then there are others who have pre-existing glandular problems with thyroid or adrenals.
As for the raw vegans, one guy (Amir) who tried a raw vegan diet found he was getting negative symptoms from it (he was healthy before he started) and posted about his concerns at a raw vegan forum. The other forum members essentially castigated him for worrying and complaining about nothing and told him it was detox. He asked them why the people in this forum didn't seem to have nearly as many of the nasty "detox" symptoms, and instead seemed to report all sorts of benefits. They ignored his points and just dismissed them with scorn and laughter.
Who knows, some folks may be able to handle raw dairy without problems, but given that it's not part of our evolutionary heritage I think the caution principle suggests we should skeptical of it until it's proven healthy, unless it's simply impossible to obtain any healthier fats. If I were hell-bound to try raw dairy I would get rid of all negative health symptoms with RPD first, then I would try a raw dairy experiment, and even then it would only include raw dairy fat, not raw dairy milk. Raw dairy is too expensive and inconvenient for me now to bother with it anyway. However, my market's grassfed suet price shot up from 90c/lb to over $5/lb again at the last visit. If that price holds I may need to reconsider.
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I'm surprised that you find raw dairy so expensive. Here in the UK, r grassfed raw dairy can be had for a little less than 2 pounds for a bottle.
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I'm surprised that you find raw dairy so expensive. Here in the UK, r grassfed raw dairy can be had for a little less than 2 pounds for a bottle.
I would never try raw milk. I was referring to raw fats. As I've stated many times before, so far my grassfed suet has been much cheaper than commercial butter, much less raw grassfed butter and other dairy fats.
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hey spearhead, how you doing these days?