Author Topic: Humans are a hybrid with Chimpanzee Female mating with male Pig says Geneticist  (Read 31781 times)

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Offline eveheart

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I really don't have much to add to what I said. But, to clarify, expound, and add a few more keystrokes: the western scientific method doesn't claim to define reality. Instead, it investigates phenomena by following a format of hypothesis, prediction, experiment, observation, conclusion. Even JK's example (of when the earth was flat) was merely a conclusion based on certain evidence, such as the human eye's line of sight and ships disappearing at sea. Other scientists of the same era used celestial evidence to determine orbits around the sun. When the so-called Dark Ages were over, former flat-earth scientists were free (of Roman church restrictions) to observe the heavens, so their conclusions changed.

Even if we say the obvious: "reality is reality!" once an observation is subjected to the scientific method, the explanation for reality can change. Add to that the limitations on observations due to space and time, and scientific knowledge becomes seemingly arbitrary.

All that pig/chimpanzee business was just some maverick scientist questioning the discrepancies of evolutionary theory, such as the fact that humans are hairless like pigs, not hairy like primates. Observation of evolution is flawed by time - none of us were there when evolutionary branches occurred - so we are unable to define "reality" as if we actually observed the event happening.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline JeuneKoq

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Basically the scientific method states "If a hypothesis is verified and approved with calculations, observations and empirical evidences, then it becomes a theory (or scientific "truth") that remains true until it is refuted by another verified hypothesis".

Example: The big bang theory is true, unless it is disproven.

Sometimes theories remain verified for a long time, and thus acquire a new status -which I forgot the name-, describing them as "as close to reality as it can get", such as the law of gravitation, I believe. They still remain refutable, like any other theory.

I'm sorry if it seems like I just repeated Eve's words, my only goal was to make it extra-clear.


I realize this does not answer Iguana's question of "what is reality based thinking according to Sabertooth". He's the only one who can do that.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 08:00:25 pm by JeuneKoq »

Offline eveheart

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then it becomes a theory (or scientific "truth") that remains true until it is refuted by another verified hypothesis".

Example: The big bang theory is true, unless it is disproven.

And to make is more clear, replace the word true with accepted by [name the authority] as true.

Therefore, various "authorities" may have various "truths." Kinda like the string theory of reality.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline sabertooth

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What is "Reality based thinking" ? I don't understand. Could both of you, Eve and Derek, (briefly please, Derek!) explain what you mean ? Feel free to replace the word "reality" with whatever other word is more suitable.

I was just being a little sardonic, and to the contrary I believe that paleo man focused his attention heavily upon the subject of reality, though it was in a way that was not perverted by the syntax of scientificentric ideology. I speculate that it must of been a more experiential reality, not overshadowed by the ideology of the historical Giants whose words and actions have shaped of our modern world view in a way that in many respects willfully ignores much of the reality of human nature because it cannot be neatly put into a testable theory. 

 My attitudes have been shaped by the feeling that the empirical truth sought out by science is not the be all end all of the human experience of reality, in the words or McKenna "Science is only a minor art form" and I like Terrence, believe that if we give ourselves over to this machine model of the universe bound into an absolute reality governed by universal law, we end up denying the fundamental reality that the human mind which includes a universe onto itself. This universe of mind if set free, is capable of creating, imagining and envisioning itself into a multitude of plural realities that contain multilateral tapestry's of both confecting truths as well as harmonious unities that are not mutually exclusive.

Truth of one individuals reality compared to that of another's, is not a question of "either or"...It can be" both and". If only we could realize that most of reality is simply a projection of the ever evolving human mind, then we would understand the limitations, laws, assumptions and perceived reality of yesterdays most prominent minds are not set in the stone age. Prometheus is always waiting to steel the fire from the gods who are caught not looking, and the bottom of Pandora's box always contains deeper secrets that have yet to be dug out.

Everything flows and all is transient, so for the human mind to be convinced that there is actually a set reality which is governed by absolutes, and that the mind itself has no control over the process, is in essence not Paleo, and it negates the miracle of the human minds potential to create magic, in the way it goes against the spirit of the mind of man to dream, imagine, and envision what realities may potentially exist beyond the horizon of yesterdays faded truths.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 12:35:57 am by sabertooth »
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Wouah, that title...!
« Reply #79 on: March 27, 2015, 05:27:50 am »
Thanks for your answers. Yes, science doesn’t pretend to hold the ultimate and definitive truth: religions pretend that. Scientific theories are always provisional.

I would like to add that our perception of the real is relative to our physical and psychical structure and we don’t know what the reality truly is, or at least we have a very partial perception of it. But we all have the same physical and psychical constitution and we all perceive the world the same way, so our perception of it is objective, although relative.

So we all agree that a wall is a wall and isn’t an submarine, that a fish is a fish and can be eaten  while a wall is not edible.  ;)
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline eveheart

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So we all agree that a wall is a wall and isn’t an submarine, that a fish is a fish and can be eaten  while a wall is not edible.  ;)

F, now why did you have to go and say that? Be on the lookout for a Daily Mail article about wall-eating by Neanderthals and a lathe-and-plaster cancer cure.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline Iguana

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Re: a decent title, please!
« Reply #81 on: March 27, 2015, 07:37:23 am »
LOL! Because some say « to each his/her own truth », which is not true! Although relative, there is an objective truth. The bore and stroke of my car are 85 x 88 mm and it has 4 wheels plus a spare wheel. It’s true for everyone and it’s not "to each his/her own"!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline sabertooth

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 In the fields of theoretical physics where there is rarely the kind of evidence that would qualify as 100% factual , the truly scientifically minded often referred to a plausible theory as being elegant.

There is a recognition that truth is something of a value judgment that exist on a spectrum, that spans from complete and total bullshit on one side and indisputable fact on the other. Elegance comes into play when you are able to present a partial truth in such a way that even though it doesn't illuminate the entire picture, nor does it leave out all  room for doubt, it can still cast enough light on the mystery that one has the feeling of being able to perceive a revelation of truth.

Take the monkey swine nonsense for an example of how grains of truth can be present even in the most outlandish of propositions, for those with the vision to see the connections. Even though its preposterous that we were the descendants of bestial relations between chimps and swine, there is still a truth in the fact of how much humans have in common with swine. Human and swine embryos are virtually indistinguishable. Although we diverged some 80 million years ago, we still share a common ancestor. Perhaps because we live in similar environments and our great ape ancestors may have eaten very similar omnivorous diets of roots , shoots, animal remains, and whatever else we could get, that we separately coevolved similar traits. The mutagenic factors in the diets and environment's, triggered similar alterations in both swine and hominid ancestors...Much in the same way both polar bears and artic foxes both coevolved thick white coats as adaptations to the artic, without being directly related.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 09:33:27 am by sabertooth »
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

 

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