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Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: roony on January 24, 2010, 05:23:35 am

Title: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 05:23:35 am
I read somewhere on this forum chilli pepper or cayenne was bad for you, anyone know why?
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: TylerDurden on January 24, 2010, 05:31:02 am
That's just a rzc notion. Raw omnivores don't have a problem with it. Indeed, cayenne can be very useful as a stimulant etc.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 05:55:23 am
Isn't it supposed to be a poison or something? albeit a weak one?
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: TylerDurden on January 24, 2010, 05:58:11 am
Isn't it supposed to be a poison or something? albeit a weak one?
A very mild poison can in moderate amounts be beneficial rather than toxic if it boosts the immune-system. For example, excess bacteria activate the immune-system thus boosting mood-levels via increasing serotonin levels.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 06:08:32 am
What are the side effects for excessive use? I had some kombuchua & im finding some pretty bad contraindications, i feel so moody its unbelieveable lol


Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: djr_81 on January 24, 2010, 06:12:22 am
Kombucha used to make me feel good at first then within an hour I'd feel tired and moody. I chalked this up to feeding my overgrowth of Candida; wonder if it was something else?
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 06:14:07 am
That's just a rzc notion. Raw omnivores don't have a problem with it. Indeed, cayenne can be very useful as a stimulant etc.

Oh yea, why do rzc's see it as bad
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: Ioanna on January 24, 2010, 06:57:49 am
maybe for being a nightshade??  if you try some, tell us about it :) 

kombucha is so entirely horrible for me!  so is raw apple cider vinegar.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 24, 2010, 07:23:30 am
Cayenne is one of the best, most useful herbs out there.  We have some form of cayenne in the home at all times:

- home made cayenne tincture for instant circulation needs and medical emergencies

- dried ground cayenne to instantly stop bleeding and heal wounds

- fresh cayenne for soup (my wife and kids are not raw paleo) when they have mucus (because they are not raw paleo)

don't abuse it. keep it handy.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: Ioanna on January 24, 2010, 07:34:37 am
gs, are the 1st and 3rd with dry, ground or fresh cayenne?
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 07:52:14 am
gs, are the 1st and 3rd with dry, ground or fresh cayenne?

fresh for tinctures, ground or fresh for soup, both good
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 24, 2010, 08:01:56 am
For soup, we have fresh cayenne. 

For the cayenne tincture, here are instructions how to make it:

CAYENNE PEPPER TINCTURE:

NOTE: Parts EQUALS Volume, and NOT Weight in the following Tincture Method. Modify this procedure by using DRIED Herbs ONLY, if FRESH Herbs are NOT AVAILABLE, and when making other Herbal Tinctures also. Also if you want to make a SUPER-POTENT Tincture (i.e. - Cayenne Pepper & Lobelia Seed Pod - see below), then allow the Mixture to sit for a FULL 3 Months!
1. Start to make this and ANY Tincture, if possible, on a NEW Moon.
2. Take a Quart Canning Jar and fill it 1/4 FULL with DRIED Cayenne Peppers, getting the HOTTEST ones (i.e. - Habanero, African Bird, Serrano, Jalapeno - 200,000+ Heat Units), that you can obtain.
3. Add ONLY enough 50% Grain Alcohol (100 Proof Vodka) to COVER the Cayenne Peppers, which have been chopped FINE, using a Blender or Grinder.
4. Use enough FRESH Cayenne Peppers, that you can blend with 50% Grain Alcohol (100 Proof Vodka) to turn the Mixture into an Apple Sauce-Like Consistency.
NOTE: If you can't find 100 Proof Grain Alcohol, then use 190 Proof Grain Alcohol and dilute it by 50% with Distilled Water.
5. Add this Mixture to the 1st Mixture, filling up the Canning Jar 3/4 FULL.
6. Fill up the rest of the Canning Jar with MORE 50% Grain Alcohol.
7. Shake it as MANY times as possible, during the Day.
8. Let this Mixture sit, until the following FULL Moon (15-16 Days), but OPTIMALLY until the following NEW Moon (28-29 Days)!
9. Strain this Mixture through an UNBLEACHED Coffee Filter.
10. Bottle the RESULTING Tincture.
11. Take 2-3 dropperfuls - 3-4 times per day, when needed.

http://healingtools.tripod.com/thn8.html
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 08:05:08 am
Lobelia Seed Pod combine well with cayenne?
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 24, 2010, 08:30:15 am
My understanding is that chili and cayenne peppers are both nightshades. Nightshades contain natural insecticides at relatively high levels (as compared to luscious fruits and greens) that recent research has shown may be a problem for people with autoimmune disorders (and tendencies in that direction). I used to poo-poo the talk about nightshades contributing to inflammation, arthritis, etc., but eventually I tried eliminating them and found that my health improved significantly as a result. So I don't poo-poo the dangers of nightshades anymore.

I'll repost some stuff I posted before on this, because I think that most people are unaware of the dangers with nightshades (as I had been largely unaware):

Tomatoes contain natural toxins that act as natural insecticides and anti-fungal agents: tomato lectin and alpha tomatine. Tomato lectin and alpha tomatine can work together to increase gut permeability and contribute to “leaky gut syndrome,” which itself can contribute to IBS, arthritis and a host of modern syndromes and diseases.

Many plant foods (generally speaking, the nonfruit plant foods) contain natural insecticides they use to defend themselves against insects and other predators. The human digestive system has evolved enzymes that break down and thus detoxify some of these plant toxins, but it appears it has not had enough time to develop this adaptation to certain plant foods, such as tomatoes and other nightshades, and it may be that it cannot completely detoxify even the plant foods to which we are most adapted without additional help (after all, even mountain gorillas must regularly detoxify by supplementing with clays or charcoal to avoid excess accumulation of plant toxins, despite many millions of years of adaptation to eating plant foods).

The Centre for Drug Delivery Research in the UK and the Faculté des Sciences Pharmaceutiques in France state that "Tomato lectin (TL) is a bioadhesive glycoprotein that has been shown to bind selectively to the small intestine epithelium."
[html= http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T7W-3WMJSNY-3&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=fd27edca692b7072d14f7f8a2ee6bf28]Studies on the uptake of tomato lectin nanoparticles in everted gut sacs[/html]. Tomato lectin interacts with gastric parietal cells in patients with autoimmune gastritis (see http://jcs.biologists.org/cgi/content/abstract/95/4/563).

Here is an excerpt of a presentation by Dr. Cordain on MS and diet that discusses tomato lection and alpha tomatine:

How to Treat Multiple Sclerosis with Diet (multiple videos; covers the role of tomatoes in MS)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhkmDHLCUEs

From the description: "Of Tomatoes, Vaccines and Autoimmune Disease - Tomatoes are almost universally considered to be healthy foods, though there are anecdotal reports that avoiding consumption of nightshade plants, including tomatoes, may improve symptoms in patients with rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune diseases.

In this cutting-edge report you'll learn about a component, tomato lectin, which has the capacity to interact with the immune system in a way that may promote autoimmune disease.  You'll also learn about another component of tomato, alpha tomatine, which can act as an adjuvant and boost the immune response to tomato lectin, and also increase gut permeability."

Here is Ashton Embry, the MS diet expert, discussing Dr. Cordain’s presentation:

The Role of Lectins from Grains and Legumes in the MS Disease Process
Ashton Embry
http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=show&pageid=2344
 
"I want to summarize a number of important points that Dr Cordain made in his presentation. Some of them were new to me and they are most important for understanding why it is essential to avoid eating gluten grains and legumes as well as a few other types of foods including tomatoes. His work has also put the concept of the role of a leaky gut in MS in a new context and this also has ramifications for understanding how potentially problematic food and bacterial-derived protein fragments can cross the intestinal barrier and engage the immune system. Dr Cordain’s presentation is quite technical but to me it is imperative to understand how various proteins derived from foods can be part of the MS disease process on a molecular level. This provides a solid, science-based rationale for WHY it is critical to avoid foods such as legumes and grains if one wants to keep the MS disease process well controlled."

It was quite a shocker for me to learn that some of the foods that we were taught by scientific consensus and media hype to consider “superfoods” are not necessarily so super, and I’m sure it will be quite a shock to many other people as well and there will be enormous resistance to accepting this, unsurprisingly. We are on the cusp of a revolution. Such changes to the reigning order tend to be tumultuous.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 08:37:51 am
Excellent post paleophil, arent cayennes & chilli's beneficial precisely because of their high level of natural insecticides, this insecticide causes the burning sensation via its seeds, pods etc.,
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 24, 2010, 08:50:11 am
Plant insecticides can have medicinal effects when taken very briefly, but based on much of what I've read, it's not wise to ingest plants that are high in such insecticides over long periods, as staple foods, at least not without periodically taking detoxicants like clays, charcoal, etc. Plants high in toxins, like nightshades, will apparently pose more of a problem to people with sensitive immune systems, such as myself, than to others.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 08:57:37 am
Plant insecticides can have medicinal effects when taken very briefly, but based on much of what I've read, it's not wise to ingest plants that are high in such insecticides over long periods, as staple foods, at least not without periodically taking detoxicants like clays, charcoal, etc. Plants high in toxins, like nightshades, will apparently pose more of a problem to people with sensitive immune systems, such as myself, than to others.

I've noticed my water intake rapidly increases, throughout the day after ingesting cayennes or chillis, i actually feel alot better after drinking large amounts of water, even hours after ingesting the cayenne

I also feel amazing after taking charcoal,

thnx for pointing that out paleophil
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 24, 2010, 08:58:01 am
Yes our family avoids all forms of nightshades.

But we make an exception for cayenne for treatments / remedies / emergencies.

Treatment is not the same as making it a food.  Do not make cayenne a habit.

Cayenne is one of the most important herbs out there because of it's circulatory properties it enables all other herbs to work.

Know how to use cayenne.  It's a good tool.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 24, 2010, 09:05:46 am
Yes, well said, GS. Unfortunately, the people who were well-schooled in how to use plants as medicinals have largely been wiped out. So it's crucial that we protect the few who remain, try to keep their knowledge alive and spread it to the modern world. I saw a lecture by an ethnobotanist who started a shamanic medicine school in the Amazonian rainforest for this purpose. I wish I could remember his name.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 10:05:29 am
Yes, well said, GS. Unfortunately, the people who were well-schooled in how to use plants as medicinals have largely been wiped out. So it's crucial that we protect the few who remain, try to keep their knowledge alive and spread it to the modern world. I saw a lecture by an ethnobotanist who started a shamanic medicine school in the Amazonian rainforest for this purpose. I wish I could remember his name.

What about Richard schulze?
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 24, 2010, 10:56:33 am
What about Richard schulze?
Given that I'm testing a raw carnivore diet, whereas Richard Schulze apparently follows a vegan diet (is it cooked vegan?), and given that no shamanic society has every followed a vegan diet, I think you can guess what my opinion of his work would be.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: RawZi on January 24, 2010, 11:30:14 am
Unfortunately, the people who were well-schooled in how to use plants as medicinals have largely been wiped out. So it's crucial that we protect the few who remain, try to keep their knowledge alive and spread it to the modern world.

    I loved hanging out with the old ladies in the rainforest.

- fresh cayenne for soup (my wife and kids are not raw paleo) when they have mucus (because they are not raw paleo)

don't abuse it. keep it handy.

    I used to do that one.  I wasn't raw paleo either.  When I gave it the cayenne pinch in soup, my hypothyroid started to become more balanced.  It's good for some things.  It's not the right medicine for everything.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 11:50:33 am
Given that I'm testing a raw carnivore diet, whereas Richard Schulze apparently follows a vegan diet (is it cooked vegan?), and given that no shamanic society has every followed a vegan diet, I think you can guess what my opinion of his work would be.

He doesnt promote a vegan diet, he's a brilliant herbalist & a naturopath first, i've never heard him promoting a vegetarian diet, i've been following his work for years, in a lot of ways he understands human biology & physiology, better then aajonus & cordain put together, because he was taught by one of the best herbologist naturopaths of our time, Dr. John R. Christopher

He pointed out the facts of fats, & bechamps germ theory etc., years before aajonus & the primal diet, aitkins etc., came on the scene

Most importantly like aajonus, he got results, he genuinely heals people

For example Dr. Schulze on how expertly he uses cayenne pepper to heal people from gangrene & save people from heart attacks

   "Cayenne increases blood circulation and eases the pain of congested swollen veins. Veins, unlike arteries, have thinner, less muscular walls. Because of this, they easily herniate, swell, and collapse. Cayenne helps the blood move through the veins easier. It even dissolves clots, and being a very rich source of vitamin C and bioflavonoids, and other vitamin C complex nutrients, it actually strengthens the walls of the veins, and has been proven to clean them and help them regain their elasticity. I have seen many diabetics, and others, with horrible circulation problems in there legs and extremities - some so far gone with gangrene they were scheduled for amputation - who recovered.

    Cayenne is most effective for heart and blood circulation problems, and for angina pectoris, palpitations, and cardiac arrhythmias. It's a miracle for congestive heart failure. It is a specific for anyone who has any type of circulatory problems, such as high or low blood pressure, elevated cholesterol, triglycerides and fats, even varicose veins. With the heart, cayenne is great for prevention as well as for the treatment of disease. It relieves the pain of angina pectoris by helping get more blood to the heart muscle itself. And, if a person has a heart attack, cayenne is the surest first aid remedy. I have had almost a hundred patients actually save their lives by using a tablespoonful of cayenne pepper in a glass of warm water, or 10 dropperfuls of the tincture, and drinking it down fast. In every case, it brought the person right out of it with minimal damage, some with no damage at all."
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: invisible on January 24, 2010, 04:26:27 pm
I think spices are bad for you. Sweating, runny nose and flushing is pretty standard. Sign of an allergic reaction. Would never eat them again.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: RawZi on January 24, 2010, 05:40:37 pm
I think spices are bad for you. Sweating, runny nose and flushing is pretty standard. Sign of an allergic reaction.

    I'd rather wait to see and hope I get a cold if I need a runny nose.  Cayenne is a nightshade.  It goes best with pasteurized cow or dairy, need I say more?  I completely avoid spices most of the time.

    My husband argues a friend of his taught him cayenne is good for health.  Mind you, this friend died many years ago, of a health problem, circulatory system, young age.  No one including him or the doctor even knew he had a circulatory problem until it was too late.  He was possibly accidentally masking the fact he had a health issue, by using cayenne. 
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: TylerDurden on January 24, 2010, 06:29:11 pm
Given that I'm testing a raw carnivore diet, whereas Richard Schulze apparently follows a vegan diet (is it cooked vegan?), and given that no shamanic society has every followed a vegan diet, I think you can guess what my opinion of his work would be.
  Same applies in that there are no genuine raw zero carb tribes as they eat raw berries or seaweed at various times of the year. For example, the Inuit in the relevant wikipedia entry are described as storing foods like seaweeds, frozen berries etc:-
While it is not possible to cultivate plants for food in the Arctic the Inuit have traditionally gathered those that are naturally available. Grasses, tubers, roots, stems, berries, and seaweed (kuanniq or edible seaweed) were collected and preserved depending on the season and the location."
"
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 24, 2010, 08:53:07 pm
He doesnt promote a vegan diet,
I didn't say he promotes a vegan diet, I said he "apparently follows a cooked vegan diet." I found the following:

"[Dr. Ron Shulze] became a vegan, began an intensive exercise program and literally changed everything that went in and out of his body, mind and spirit." https://www.herbdoc.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=106

I treated that conservatively, not saying that he is promoting a vegan diet, because it doesn't literally tell others to follow it, even though it is on his website and it certainly comes across as suggesting that a vegan diet is a good thing, with no caveats about it not necessarily being good for everyone. Is that the Ron Schulze that you're referring to and has he since abandoned his vegan diet?

Quote
For example Dr. Schulze on how expertly he uses cayenne pepper to heal people from gangrene & save people from heart attacks ....
He seems to be recommending taking the cayenne on a continuous and long-term basis, yes? For chronic problems like heart disease I would prefer to use a raw Paleo diet low in plant toxins and antinutrients (found in reportedly relatively high concentrations in grains, legumes, nightshades and nuts, as compared to fruits, meats, fish/seafood and insects), so I'm increasingly less impressed by Dr. Schulze's work the more you reveal. Sorry. I see plant medicines as more appropriate for acute illnesses and acute flares of chronic illnesses. I don't believe plant medicines should be taken chronically if it can be avoided, just as with synthetic medicines.

I actually tried cayenne in the past for my poor circulation and hair loss after reading articles by people with similar views and claims to those of Dr. Schulze and after hearing about one person's anecdotal claims of benefit. The cayenne provided me with no noticeable benefits, whereas eliminating all nightshades including cayenne and going raw carnivore greatly improved my circulation and body temperature regulation. I'm not making claims or recommendations for anyone else on this, just sharing my own experience and research, both of which are at odds with what Dr. Schulze claims about this. People may wish to investigate the research I provided above and the ingredients and processing methods of Schulze before they buy any of Schulze's products. In general I advocate skeptically questioning claims and openness about information. If you're going to tout Dr. Schulze on a RPD forum you should reveal why you're doing that despite the fact that he doesn't appear to advocate RPD (and if he now does you can update us on that).
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 24, 2010, 08:54:51 pm
 Same applies in that there are no genuine raw zero carb tribes as they eat raw berries or seaweed at various times of the year.
Correct and I have pointed that out myself, including at the ZC forum (and took flack for it). Which is one reason why I call myself a raw facultative carnivore rather than a raw ZCer. As I have pointed out many times before, even wolves and coyotes eat berries. I didn't say that eating any plant foods is not Paleo. I'm even planning on trying wild berries and other in-season fruits this summer. However, RPD is not about trying to literally emulate every aspect of HG diet and lifestyle to the letter regardless of negative consequences, which you also do not do (for example, traditional Inuits also cooked some of their foods and you don't do that). It's about using knowledge about Paleolithic nutrition and human metabolism to try to optimize our diets today in a way that is customized for our own individual needs. I don't know why I seem to do even better on an obligate carnivore diet than facultative, but it could be due to past damage from SAD, or it could be that berries and seaweed do not further optimize my diet beyond what meat/fat/organs do. Just because HGs eat those other foods does not guarantee that they are optimally healthy.

At any rate, my point was not that no one should eat any plant foods. I was asked my opinion of Schulze, I read at his website that he followed a (cooked) vegan diet that is not RPD and saw that he was selling products that are not RPD and gave my preliminary opinion based on what I've read. If it turns out that he has since adopted a RPD diet and promotes that and he has stopped selling his non-RPD products, I will update my opinion. You're not advocating Schulze's recommendations, are you?
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 24, 2010, 09:06:55 pm
When my brother was sick and in an emergency room in a hospital which could do nothing about his breathing problem, I saved the day by having him chew on 2 fresh cayenne pieces. It took 10 mins to take effect.

I decided to make cayenne tincture so next time, it will only take a minute.

Cayenne tincture is popular with my wife and in laws and friends who are not raw paleo.  Clears sinuses, mucus, soar throat, etc.  I have none of those, like you, I'm on raw paleo. 

Cayenne powder has saved our household from cuts, and bleeding injuries.  No need for stitches, no need for emergency rooms, just slap it on.

I gave away cayenne tinctures in small bottles to friends and relatives.  I know it saved a friend who cancelled her sinus operation because the cayenne cleared her sinuses.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: jessica on January 24, 2010, 09:36:40 pm
    I loved hanging out with the old ladies in the rainforest.

ha! where did you do this? that is my dream!  have you heard of the thirteen grandmothers?  they are 13 shaman women from tribes all around the earth, the have set up a forest healing center as well as a Institute of Natural and Traditional Medicine Seed Bank
http://www.grandmotherscouncil.com/

some times i wake up with mucus, mostly from sleeping inside, second hand smoke from my neighbors, or the slight begining of a sickness(thats usually as far as it goes), if i make a garlic, cayenne, kelp broth with maybe a piece of liver or something, it kicks out the germs, clears any mucus and generally feels stimulating...so i say yes to cayenne in medicinal doses
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 24, 2010, 09:48:17 pm
  Same applies in that there are no genuine raw zero carb tribes as they eat raw berries or seaweed at various times of the year. For example, the Inuit in the relevant wikipedia entry are described as storing foods like seaweeds, frozen berries etc:-
While it is not possible to cultivate plants for food in the Arctic the Inuit have traditionally gathered those that are naturally available. Grasses, tubers, roots, stems, berries, and seaweed (kuanniq or edible seaweed) were collected and preserved depending on the season and the location."
"

Excellent post, we have herbs, roots & spices in our environment for a reason & we need herbalists naturopaths with their knowledge of nature, to help us where paleo diets dont work

There are plenty of dangerous strains of parasites & mutated forms of bacteria, a paleo diet will not protect you from, fortunately for us the advanced immune systems of the cows & animals we consume, kill most of those for us

Which is WHY we dont eat soil & grass & leaves, UNLESS theyre specifically edible for humans, they contain dangerous strains of parasites & bacteria FOREIGN to the human body


The birds & animals & insects around us CONSUME incompatible parasites & bacteria from the air around us, they also recycle the toxic gases & radiations of the sun & our solar system

Birds & animals & insects & plants, are our Secondary Immune System
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 25, 2010, 12:26:41 am
Excellent post, we have herbs, roots & spices in our environment for a reason & we need herbalists naturopaths with their knowledge of nature, to help us where paleo diets dont work ....
Yes. While I advocate skepticism and questioning, I do think that there is some value in natural herbal treatments. I found the book Wild Health by Cindy Engel to be interesting. Rather than approaching it from the viewpoint that Schulze seems to on early examination promote (which I will attempt to summarize as "I have found the best way of healing, which includes a vegan diet, and here are my products you can buy that will heal you"), Engel takes the approach of, "Let's look at what the animals do and see what, if anything, we can learn from them."

I tend to be attracted more to an open-minded, investigative approach like the latter than the wisdom-on-high approach and I tend to be skeptical of people who are pushing their own products. That doesn't mean the products can't be good, it's just that I know the seller has an economic motive behind them that doesn't necessarily coincide with my own motive of better personal health for me. Rather than just her own personal experience or high theory, Engel also draws on field observations and laboratory studies. It seems to me that we can learn more from studying animals and people living in the wild or near-wild (ie, wild animals and hunter-gatherers) than we can from one dude who had success with a particular approach and is selling products. For example, I would recommend that people put less import on what I say based on my personal experience than they do in their own personal experience and observations of wild animals and HGs (by themselves or credible sources) in a near-Paleo-type environment (ie, wilderness). What works for me may not necessarily work for you and my modern environment is not the primordial laboratory conditions that human beings evolved/developed in--which were those of the wilderness of the Paleolithic era. In other words, I am less persuaded of something because Dr. Schulze says it's so, than I am because we observe it in the actions of the animals and HGs in the original laboratory conditions of humans (countless generations of living in wilderness or near-wilderness) and find it produces beneficial results in a host of them and then find we can make predictions based on these observations and that we can benefit ourselves from what we've learned.

I'm trying not to be too hard on Schulze, since I only so far have to go on what has been said here and what is on his website, but the more he is cited without supporting evidence to beat anyone who disagrees with him about the head for how wrong they are and how beneficial cayenne is, which is something I tried and didn't work for me, and the more his products are promoted, the more skeptical I become.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 25, 2010, 12:39:37 am
I've never been interested in his products, just mainly when i couldnt be bothered to make my own lol

I'm more interested in his techniques & idea's

I'll have to look up Engel, any good links?

thnx
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 25, 2010, 12:46:54 am
I've never been interested in his products, just mainly when i couldnt be bothered to make my own lol

I'm more interested in his techniques & idea's

A wise emphasis when coupled with skepticism, IMO.

Quote
I'll have to look up Engel, any good links?

thnx
The book is searchable at Amazon.com.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: RawZi on January 25, 2010, 01:58:08 am
I gave away cayenne tinctures in small bottles to friends and relatives.  I know it saved a friend who cancelled her sinus operation because the cayenne cleared her sinuses.

    Same here, just today, but my friend ate a marble size balls of high meats rather than cayenne.  Well, it was just an appointment for this wk, not an operation, but she was very sick for several weeks and nothing worked until she tried her first himeat ever, just this morning.

    She said it feels so right, she will never go to a doctor again.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 25, 2010, 02:04:33 am
   Same here, just today, but my friend ate a marble size balls of high meats rather than cayenne.  Well, it was just an appointment for this wk, not an operation, but she was very sick for several weeks and nothing worked until she tried her first himeat ever, just this morning.

    She said it feels so right, she will never go to a doctor again.

Nice

There is a lot of studies & research supporting Schulzes work, which is in contrast to Aajonus, which is why i like Schulzes work so much, his understanding of physiology & naturopathiology is stunning


If my own research didnt coincide with Schulze or Aajonus i wouldnt be posting here lol
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 25, 2010, 06:01:19 am
Nice

There is a lot of studies & research supporting Schulzes work, which is in contrast to Aajonus, which is why i like Schulzes work so much, his understanding of physiology & naturopathiology is stunning


If my own research didnt coincide with Schulze or Aajonus i wouldnt be posting here lol
You didn't fully answer any of my questions about Schulze and so far I'm not particularly impressed with either Schulze or Aajonus (although I did learn a little bit from Aajonus' writings/interviews and he is one of the few prominent people who advocate raw meat), yet I post here nonetheless.

I'll try again. From Schulze's website I found: "[Dr. Ron Schulze] became a vegan, began an intensive exercise program and literally changed everything that went in and out of his body, mind and spirit." (https://www.herbdoc.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=106) Is that the Ron Schulze that you're referring to? The diet he referred to there was cooked vegan, correct (normally people specify raw if their diet is raw)? What is his diet currently?

Schulze seems to be recommending taking cayenne on a continuous and long-term basis, yes?

roony wrote: "[Schulze] understands human biology & physiology, better then aajonus & cordain put together...."

OK, I'll bite. What does Schulze understand so much better than Cordain?

...    She said it feels so right, she will never go to a doctor again.
I wouldn't advise that. If nothing else, doctors can measure various health markers so you can make sure you're on the right track (though you may need to persuade your physician to check the right markers--which you can find about from Dr. William Davis of Heartscan and Dr. Kurt Harris of PaNu).
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 25, 2010, 06:34:25 am
I wasnt under the impression you wanted any info about Schulze, lol

I'm not about write a biography about schulze, you can google sam biser, for his excellent interviews with schulze, or look up barefoot hebalist, as goodsamaritan mentioned

He basically modernised herbology & naturopathy & brought alternative medicine upto date, into an effective & powerful, a devestating healing medium

One of the biggest alternative health forums on the internet, CUREZONE.com was created solely because of richard schulze, as he popularised effective techniques to heal aids & cancer patients, without dangerous poisonous drugs, using the physiology of the human body


Richard Schulze isnt an ordinary herbalist, he's what i would call an EXTREME herbalist lol

He does crazy things with herbs, like using herbs to pulling tumours right out of your body & curing terminally ill patients, especially aids patients


He's well known for using simple herbs like cayenne, for healing stuff like chronic heart conditions, gangrene etc., he basically improved & popularised on the techniques one of the best herbalists of our time, Dr John R Christopher

He's also talked about regrowing organs, like damaged hearts etc., with herbs, stuff like pulling out tumours using poultices, regrowing tissues where doctors declared arms & legs had to be amputated

He's also famous for one of the most effective & extreme techniques for curing cancer & aids, the cold sheet technique

This just happens to be one of the most advanced detox techniques, in naturopathy today
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 25, 2010, 08:08:57 am
...I'm not about write a biography about schulze, you can google sam biser, for his excellent interviews with schulze, or look up barefoot hebalist, as goodsamaritan mentioned
I'm not looking for a biography, just brief answers to my questions.

Quote
He basically modernised herbology & naturopathy & brought alternative medicine upto date, into an effective & powerful, a devestating healing medium
I'm looking for specifics, not generalities. They can be just a few, brief specifics or even a single example of where Schulze's understanding of human biology and physiology greatly exceeds Cordains'.

Quote
Richard Schulze isnt an ordinary herbalist, he's what i would call an EXTREME herbalist lol

He does crazy things with herbs, like using herbs to pulling tumours right out of your body & curing terminally ill patients, especially aids patients
The more I learn about this dude, the more my alarm bells go off. I think a more apt term to describe that than crazy would be charlatanism. The pulling-tumors-out trick is an old scam.

Quote
He's also talked about regrowing organs, like damaged hearts etc., with herbs, stuff like pulling out tumours using poultices, ....
Sounds like more charlatanism. Talking about stuff and making extraordinary claims is not evidence of knowledge or efficacy. As Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (from a practical standpoint, rather than a philosophical one). Anyone can make extraordinary claims, what's more difficult is providing hard evidence to back them up.

Quote
He's also famous for one of the most effective & extreme techniques for curing cancer & aids, the cold sheet technique
If it's so famous, how come I've never heard of it? If half of what you say is true about this guy Schulze, he's making Aajonus seem more and more reasonable.

If you keep promoting Schulze here, this non-RPD guy who has an air of charlatanism (based on what you've shared and his website), I predict that Tyler will have a field day with him, and he'll probably be less gentle about it than I've been. Especially if you continue to not directly answer the questions about him that are posed.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 25, 2010, 08:34:41 am
We're going off topic again for the nth time....

Maybe you guys can discuss personalities in an off topic thread?  Aptly name it for the personalities you want to critique on?
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 25, 2010, 08:44:15 am
I'm not looking for a biography, just brief answers to my questions.
I'm looking for specifics, not generalities. They can be just a few, brief specifics or even a single example of where Schulze's understanding of human biology and physiology greatly exceeds Cordains'.
The more I learn about this dude, the more my alarm bells go off. I think a more apt term to describe that than crazy would be charlatanism. The pulling-tumors-out trick is an old scam.
Sounds like more charlatanism. Talking about stuff and making extraordinary claims is not evidence of knowledge or efficacy. As Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (from a practical standpoint, rather than a philosophical one). Anyone can make extraordinary claims, what's more difficult is providing hard evidence to back them up.
If it's so famous, how come I've never heard of it? If half of what you say is true about this guy Schulze, he's making Aajonus seem more and more reasonable.

If you keep promoting Schulze here, this non-RPD guy who has an air of charlatanism (based on what you've shared and his website), I predict that Tyler will have a field day with him, and he'll probably be less gentle about it than I've been. Especially if you continue to not directly answer the questions about him that are posed.

If you're going to be an asshole about it, go use google, i've got better things to do
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: PaleoPhil on January 25, 2010, 09:18:52 am
Critiquing views and actions supported by evidence or logic is fine, but I find completely personal insults to be unpersuasive and a mark of a weak case. You insulted Loren Cordain and now me without backing it up with evidence or logic. I'm not seeking to promote Schulze or any of his extraordinary claims here. The burden or proof lies with anyone who does. If you intend to make any further claims then I suggest you do it in a separate thread, per GS' suggestion. If you don't intend to answer my questions or mention him again, then I have no further interest in him and won't waste time investigating his views or discussing him or his work further.
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: roony on January 25, 2010, 09:24:04 am
My statement still stands, if you dont have the manners or politeness to ask people for information, that is exactly what you'll get called

Dont waste my time, if you've already closed your mind regards the subject, thnx
Title: Re: Is chilli or cayenne bad for you?
Post by: goodsamaritan on January 25, 2010, 09:26:17 am
Back to cayenne please?  

Some other newbies are reading the forums to learn about health rather than the bickering.

Any other bickering posts below my post will be deleted.