Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Exercise / Bodybuilding => Topic started by: Sully on September 18, 2010, 01:32:29 pm
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Good place to post old photos of hunter gatherers and their physiques, while they were still on their tradition diets and had active lives ;)
Here' a pic for starters
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/Hunting-Gathering/bwspearthrowing.jpg)
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(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/Hunting-Gathering/hunter-gatherer.jpg)
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Impossible to find an old Inuit/Eskimo photo on traditional diet without a coat.
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Trying to find the oldest looking photos.
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Hunting, was one main highly physical exercise, many methods on hunting, and many way to do it.
Primitive hunting must have been a crazy workouts sometimes, before bows came along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DDHxOqFkAs
fighting by wars or contest def. happened, stick fighting here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIdlz55Aaho&p=C27A8C0755C33527&playnext=1
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that first video is awesome.
i wonder how bat taste?
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I want some scars
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Yeah, I would love to try bat too.
@wodgina Hah, yeah, scars tell stories. I got of few of my own. The biggest one is one my back leg, about 5in. long, jumped across a car, and my leg slid down a broken antenna, just cut right up the back of my thigh.
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In some of the newer looking ones they might have not been on their tradition diet. But they definitely just did everyday activities for exercise.
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/aboriginal6.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/aborigines.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/Kun_san.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/1105hunter.jpg)
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Interesting pics, it shows how much we have devolved in terms of physical fitness on average. Those were probably regular people in their tribe.
I think they would have more fat on them if they lived in a colder climate.
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here's a true paleo exercise, making a wooden spear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8pe9StIxcw
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Cool idea!
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Cool idea, Sully!
I want to know if the BBC guy in the 2nd video got to fight or not!!!
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Cool idea, Sully!
I want to know if the BBC guy in the 2nd video got to fight or not!!!
No I don't think he did get to fight in what you saw. Too dnagerous, legal issues etc.
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nice sully. We all need to have an annual hunt. Lets all get together at some wild location and hunt barefoot with spears and knives, then at the end of the day we will eat our kill(s) raw by the fire. We'll just live off the land for a few days. No tents or anything.
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yes, that's the idea. that's the reason we need a land where we all go hunting together. we need lots of people to support us to make our dream come true. ;D
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Yo pioneer thats actually a really awesome idea. Im right next to sully in the US where are you located?
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Nice, spring is a good time. Baby deer can be killed with bare hands!
Following wolves or other predators is good too. Let them do the work, then we swarm them with sticks. Paleo people must have done this.
Yeah, we need some land! Maybe we should all donate money for a paleo land!
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Nice, spring is a good time. Baby deer can be killed with bare hands!
Following wolves or other predators is good too. Let them do the work, then we swarm them with sticks. Paleo people must have done this.
Yeah, we need some land! Maybe we should all donate money for a paleo land!
sully , let the world know this! also we're hosting some thing which will be real paleo in my country home by next summer (hoping). where anyone can come and host the guest like paleolithic way to get donations for the land.
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Yo pioneer thats actually a really awesome idea. Im right next to sully in the US where are you located?
I live in PA
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im in texas, but could potentially meet up for this. sounds awesome. i know how to make a fire with sticks. that could make it more paleo. i also have a wooden bow... this could be badass
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Yeah, I mean when you think about it, it would strengthen our spirits to come together in unity. Every day, we bare this diet on our shoulders alone. I'm not saying its bad, but it wouldn't hurt to get together and converse. Actually meet.
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Yeah, I mean when you think about it, it would strengthen our spirits to come together in unity. Every day, we bare this diet on our shoulders alone. I'm not saying its bad, but it wouldn't hurt to get together and converse. Actually meet.
We are eating healthy but alone, well most of us. Social eating is better for mental health as a human being. Sharing meat :)
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Sully, I know this is off topic, but you seem around my age so I have a question for you. Where do you get affordable grass fed finished fat? I just got some grainfed suet from the butcher because that is the only source of fat I can get around me as of now(unless I find another source). I dont know if it is worth it to eat the grainfed suet or not, what you think? All the online sites sell the stuff for a hefty price.
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Sully, I know this is off topic, but you seem around my age so I have a question for you. Where do you get affordable grass fed finished fat? I just got some grainfed suet from the butcher because that is the only source of fat I can get around me as of now(unless I find another source). I dont know if it is worth it to eat the grainfed suet or not, what you think? All the online sites sell the stuff for a hefty price.
if you can drive from pa to nj, you can get the best quality suet from me for free. also i can introduce my farmer who lives in pa and he can provide that to you. he's little expansive though.
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Sully, I know this is off topic, but you seem around my age so I have a question for you. Where do you get affordable grass fed finished fat? I just got some grainfed suet from the butcher because that is the only source of fat I can get around me as of now(unless I find another source). I dont know if it is worth it to eat the grainfed suet or not, what you think? All the online sites sell the stuff for a hefty price.
Here in Milwaukee, Outpost Sells Grass fed beef and bison. They have 3 stores. Sendiks sells grass fed beef too. They have about 3 stores. Whole foods. I also order back fat from north star bison. I am pretty lucky, many local stores here sell grass fed beef and or bison. Plenty of wild sea food too.
So thers over 10 stores in Milwaukee on all sides of town that sell grass fed meats, with plenty of fat on them But I still like to order some bison fat, since the grass fed bison in stores is too lean.
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if you can drive from pa to nj, you can get the best quality suet from me for free. also i can introduce my farmer who lives in pa and he can provide that to you. he's little expansive though.
How much could I get from you and/or the farmer? If I were to drive that far, I would want to get a good amount, but it would be worth it. :D
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like today i open up a big kidney and through away around 2 lbs of fat from two. depends, last month, i've received 10 pairs of total kidneys. so you can imagine how much fat that could be. this month i've four of them left. my farmar charges $2.00 per pound.
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Traded my pellet gun for a bow. You know what that means. :)
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like today i open up a big kidney and through away around 2 lbs of fat from two. depends, last month, i've received 10 pairs of total kidneys. so you can imagine how much fat that could be. this month i've four of them left. my farmar charges $2.00 per pound.
If you could guarantee me a good 6-10lbs of fat, I'll def be driving out there.
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im in texas, but could potentially meet up for this. sounds awesome. i know how to make a fire with sticks. that could make it more paleo. i also have a wooden bow... this could be badass
sounds great!! now we know who to call when we are in need. this will be the 1st paleolithic village.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdUZeQs_77I
a good mix of unnatural naturalness hah
some good paleo exercise in video
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Good vid. Do you do much parkour?
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I'd say keep an open mind. Paleo exercise is all good, but you can't necessarily look at brucie or modern hunter gatherers for the ideal physique.
I used to think along these lines but posts by Tyler and various articles have convinced me that paleo men would have been bigger...eating lots of meat and doing heavy work. In any case, I can get a lot of benefits from weights.
Each to his own, but don't just look at aborigines or whatever and think that must be natural.
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I'd say keep an open mind. Paleo exercise is all good, but you can't necessarily look at brucie or modern hunter gatherers for the ideal physique.
I used to think along these lines but posts by Tyler and various articles have convinced me that paleo men would have been bigger...eating lots of meat and doing heavy work. In any case, I can get a lot of benefits from weights.
Each to his own, but don't just look at aborigines or whatever and think that must be natural.
True, only depending on where you live though. Columbus said that the indians had big bodies with broad chests and backs. That is after all what we are talking about when we say paleo= indians. They were said to eat up to ten, sometimes more, lbs of meat a day, and mostly organs. The common people only got small portions of the organs, while they mostly ate muscle meat. The warriors primarily ate the organs right after a kill in large quantities. This is also to say our ancestors ate food around body temperature much of the time. Jeez, if I wanted, I could actually eat that much meat. I ate 4 lbs of heart and oxtail yesterday and was sustained, but I could have eaten much more.
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Good vid. Do you do much parkour?
I actually don't even call it parkour, I started climbing and jumping over things with my friend Lance. We never heard of parkour/free running before, and called it junts, jumps+stunts=junts. I don't call it anything now. I just do what I do.
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I actually don't even call it parkour, I started climbing and jumping over things with my friend Lance. We never heard of parkour/free running before, and called it junts, jumps+stunts=junts. I don't call it anything now. I just do what I do.
I don't do the extreme jumping often at all. The only thing I do similar to this on a regular basis is running through the woods, jumping over logs and such along the way.
Its fun to do once in a while though.
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Here's a good paleo exercise, playing with kids
they have so much energy
here's me rough housing with my nephews
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/100_0348.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/100_0347.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/100_0351.jpg)
they like to fight with sticks too, i teach them so many things
they wear me out
ahh yeah, playing with a dog can be extremely good exercise, my sister has a small dog, that thing is amazing and hyper, its on a raw meat diet :)
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What about pictures of paleo women?
Old pics of hunter-gatherers (like the first pics), except of female physiques...and maybe modern paleo females. How about those - anyone?
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I am on this crappy computer at school.
I would post some now, but someone might think i am looking at porn.
I will find some later ;)
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Hahaha!!!
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Here's some women. Again, mainly Australian Aborigines
http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictoria/a/1/5/im/a15137.jpg
http://www.amren.com/ar/2008/09/11b-Aborigines.jpg
Heres a caveman workout for the arms, making spears are making me look ripped
DITCH THE DUMBELLS!
I RUB IT ON TH FLOOR FOR MOST AND MAKE SOME FINE DTEAILS WITH A ROCK OR DULL KNIFE
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/suleiman/MOV07b_Capture.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/suleiman/MOV07b_Capture_1.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/suleiman/MOV07d_Capture.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/suleiman/MOV07d_Capture_3.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/suleiman/MOV07d_Capture_7.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/suleiman/MOV07d_Capture_9.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/suleiman/MOV07d_Capture_12.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/suleiman/MOV07d_Capture_12.jpg)
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Each to his own, but don't just look at aborigines or whatever and think that must be natural.
My thoughts exactly. When going on a raw meat/fat diet I would not expect or want to turn out looking like those aborigines... they look way too thin and weak... I want the power & jumping/speed abilities of large cats like lions, tigers, cheetahs, etc.
In those 2 female pics the girls aren't attractive or even healthy looking... they're next to a corn plant though so maybe that's what they're eating...
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Until we see a naked Eskimo from the 1800's. Aboriginal old photos are one of the closest things we have to visually look at.
But of course not the closest thing. And everyone is going to look a bit different. Different genetics etc.
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Here's a pretty cool article. Although I don't agree with everything.
It has some good stuff on physique etc.
http://www.electricphysique.com/perfect-male-body.html
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http://www.electricphysique.com/images/tribal-and-fat-small.jpg
they have a section diet, they seem to lean towards a paleo diet i think
http://www.electricphysique.com/nutrition-facts.html
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Excellent (even if we only get ONE picture of a paleo female physique). Reading some of the articles now.
Thanx, Sully.
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Some more women pics, not totally paleo but all I could find...
(http://sandrine.nouvel.free.fr/Images/Himbas3.jpg)
(http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/50767790.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=E41C9FE5C4AA0A143917923364F7ADC62DA07252F5B814B36C3CD114E35D47EBB01E70F2B3269972)
(http://bp1.blogger.com/_SnOd5a3hGKs/SBQ_OxMoKnI/AAAAAAAAADw/Ei-EeajO8J8/s1600-h/3bath.jpg)
(http://img.fotocommunity.com/photos/13897865.jpg)
(http://www.ectomo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/aboriginepipe.jpg)
(http://fineartamerica.com/images-medium/bushmen-mother-and-child-miranda-miranda.jpg)
(http://www.randafricanart.com/images/scarification_Nuba_woman.jpg)
(http://www.randafricanart.com/sitebuilder/images/Scarification2-369x568.jpg)
(http://img.socioambiental.org/d/239061-1/xikrin_5.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/ivgu10.jpg)
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excellent, Yuli.
Where did you find these?
EDIT....I found a few, too.
(http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/0/35/148/35148272_1226498768_default_riefenstahl_africa_interv_08_0706281505_id_60475.jpg)
(http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/images/dienubav/281.jpg)
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just by searching through google
....I found a few, too.
EDIT: wow, the 2 oiled up chicks, nice muscles on their backsides, lol
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One can compare to modern (not necessarily raw, however) paleo female bodies:
(http://www.amgprofiles.com/KO/Pics/KO1005.jpg)
Movie star Megan Fox, who is on-again, off-again paleo, if I understand correctly:
(http://www.dailyworldbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/megan-fox.jpg)
Requisite crossfit pic:
(http://journal.crossfit.com/images/thumbnails/CFJ_FormFunction2.baeef534.png)
I hear tale Angelina Jolie was eating cooked paleo to get in shape for "Tpmbradier"...but I'm trying to find both old hunter-gatherer pictures as well as confirmed modern RAW paleo pictures.
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In one of Poul Anderson's SF short stories, "The Long Remembering" a man is sent into the past for a time to be with a Cro-Magnon tribe in Europe and has a beautiful wife there who is so much more vigorous and beautiful in a natural way than his own modern wife caked with makeup etc., that he is left with regrets.
Nice, relatively healthy-looking pictures of tribal women, by the way - well except one of them.
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I think some of the tribes living in the forests of Indonesia are 100% raw paleo, i saw a documentary about one of them and i saw no sign of cooking. Their diet is extremely limited, they live almost entirely on leaves and small fish, eaten raw.
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I think some of the tribes living in the forests of Indonesia are 100% raw paleo, i saw a documentary about one of them and i saw no sign of cooking. Their diet is extremely limited, they live almost entirely on leaves and small fish, eaten raw.
can u put some videos ? thanks
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Some more women pics, not totally paleo but all I could find...
(http://sandrine.nouvel.free.fr/Images/Himbas3.jpg)
(http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/50767790.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=E41C9FE5C4AA0A143917923364F7ADC62DA07252F5B814B36C3CD114E35D47EBB01E70F2B3269972)
(http://www.ectomo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/aboriginepipe.jpg)
those are lucky babies and women looks so good when they hold these beautiful babies. i also give my toddler unlimited supply of milk and feel really good about this.
it says that wild animals look good in nature and babies look good on their mothers' arms.
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Here's a pretty cool article. Although I don't agree with everything.
It has some good stuff on physique etc.
http://www.electricphysique.com/perfect-male-body.html
In one study men rated their ideal body as being about 28 lb (13 kg) more muscular than themselves and they also estimated that women preferred a male body about 30 lb (14 kg) more muscular than themselves.
I'd say most of this is a fairly accurate assessment of the population and makes good points. Me personally I also find it hard to separate what is a natural or artificial sense of beauty/self etc. I know I am fairly confident and pleased with my physical progress or prowess or whatever one wants to call it, and have no real concerns that I would need to bulk up for any woman per se, as many women I seem to know prefer thin men... anyway: At 6' I'm at a prety dense 160-165 But all the same, i'd still have to say the ideal for most would be more in the Christian Bale(s) and Viggo Mortensen(s) -who are way over the 190 range- over my build; so that statistic sounds about right. Judging by my own experiences with others, I would say for me and probably others at similar height anything under 160 is fairly underweight per society and per myself, and anything over 170 would be looking pretty normal without having to resort to taking my clothes off.
Heres some pics lookin' HG OG-RPD KD Swiss clan.
my background is Swiss and various Anglo mut and half eastern European. My dad says no one in his family were ever fit or athletic, mostly farmers. Diet owns genes.
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Nice build KD! Keep it up!
As far as height and body weight for men.
It all depends on what percent of your weight is muscle.
Has anyone here experimented with making primitive tools to develope ones arms?
Edit: As long as you got a good amount of muscle, with a thin layer of body fat. All is well.
As far as physique.
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I will :)
yeah there really is no formula or ratio and numbers can be very deceiving anyway. In a sense that was a point I was trying to make that although I don't know my exact composition, i'm fairly muscled and yet pretty light weight from what others have told me I look like. Still other than accounting for bones etc..(which I think does factor in for me) 160 for me represents a low end of 'normal' . Like I can still fit into some M sized shirts, and I just started 'outgrowing' thin Levis at 30" (my waist makes it but its all stuck/pinched on the upper thigh crotch area). So i'm still a 'small' person by society standards. Anyway...I was responding more to that article than to what the ideal physique is for a raw paleo person, even though I do have my opinions...
I don't do a whole lot of paleo type outdoor activities. I live in somewhat of an industrial wasteland and other than a few parks theres not a whole lot of nature in the immediate area. If i had a car I guess I could drive out to the scenic parts. Other than Olympic type lifts or bodyweight..i'm not doing all that much arm specific workouts. I used to love doing the forearm winding thing.
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Guys, with all due respect, you all gotta get off this low body fat train. I have very low bodyfat with a 30" waist as well, but it is not what makes me healthy. I could be just as healthy with a 36" waist. Look at the eskimos. Talking about fat being bad is getting back to that old fat phobic notion. Now if you are talking about aesthetics, yes, it is more attractive in todays society to have abs and very low bodyfat. However, when speaking purely realistic and paleo, all the women really cared about was strength and ability in the males. Whether the man had a six pack or not is not what mattered. Carrying his young for miles and being able to bring home a kill after a long day and provide for his family is what mattered to a woman. The only reason six packs and low bodyfat is viewed as sexy is purely society and culture. Do you guys concur?
I really hope you guys dont look in the mirror with disgust if you see some fat on you. I embrace my body when I have fat or not, and I simply keep a six pack just for looking good in todays society. It does not make me any more of a man though. One thing that I also take into account is that aromatase factor, converting testosterone to estrogen, which is definitely a problem with excess body fat, but to an extent, you need bodyfat for healthy hormone levels.
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@pioneer
I both agree and disagree ;D
It is true you do not need to have low fat to be healthy and strong, there are many examples of that. People that are fit with more weight should definitely put up their pics! :)
However look at some African hunters and tribal women, they have fairly low body fat.
It just depends on your genetics, where you live and what you eat.
I for one am genetically predisposed to be pretty lean, if I gorge myself I will eventually gain some weight but the weight doesn't feel good on me, I feel healthiest at my natural weight (which is considered very thin for a woman).
My grandmother who is a little overweight is having health issues which tells me everyone has their ideal weight, and in my genepool the fat will bring poorer health, I can see it by examining my family members, the thin ones feel the best.
Sure society views thin people as more attractive, I personally love the lean look but I have also seen quite attractive people of moderate fat (as long as they are not obese and they have muscle with the fat then its all gravy).
BUT - I could not give a crap about whats viewed as attractive in our society as I don't follow norms at all, the reason I love lean is just because of personal taste, 100% because of that, just because I like the look, not because what TV told me (I don't watch it).
As for looking in a the mirror in disgust because you see some fat, yes if you have some sort of anorexia then your judgement is jaded and it is a problem. I like the bit of fat I have around my upper legs, thighs and butt, but for me if I saw fat around my belly, arms and other part for MYSELF that would just not feel normal due to my genetic thin predisposition. Also we are living a different lifestyle then Eskimos, perhaps if I lived with them I would gain lots of weight, but often when you eat well and exercise you end up being naturally thin.
Anyways, I don't embrace my body whether it has fat or not, I embrace it when I feel good and I look good thats all. Whatever weight it is who cares. Everyone should go by their own standards not somebody else's!
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@pioneer
Hears my opinion.
Our body fat would go up and down naturally with seasons.
What should not vary as much is muscle mass, unless you are a young man/woman and growing.
My fat ratio doesn't matter to me. As long as I have a good amount of solid muscle.
But by no means do I think humans should get as fat as a bear. We don't try to sleep out the winter.
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What should not vary as much is muscle mass, unless you are a young man/woman and growing.
My muscle mass varies with season too.
In the summer I go out more and am more active so I naturally get more muscle.
In the winter I prefer to often stay in and work (do large stretches of only mental activity) - you could think of it as a type of semi-hibernation, during this time I get less muscle but not to the point I feel weak of course.
I think its also good if you have the ability to gain muscle mass efficiently. I can be sedentary for a month (usually its not that long lol) - I'll loose some mass, but then after a few days of exercise it grows quick, I noticed my mom is the same, a small amount of exercise increases muscle mass quickly. She'll go camping for a week in the summer and when she comes back its like a transformation every time lol
Does anyone know if its beneficial to exercise like that?
To have intervals of sedentary then active and so on...I have a feeling thats part of the reason muscle grows quickly. Its like fasting for your muscles perhaps...similar as to why its beneficial to vary types of exercise.
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But by no means do I think humans should get as fat as a bear. We don't try to sleep out the winter.
How are we supposed to do it, Sully? :)
Do you think that you or me are able to gain a bear-like fat?
I think that we are predisposed to be lean, even in winter. I'm more bulked-up now, but still lean, no matter how much I eat.
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Does anyone know if its beneficial to exercise like that?
Yeah, I think it's beneficial.
Our exercises should be IMO in sync with seasons.
I imagine not doing anything during some heavy-winter weeks. It could be healthy.
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To perform the best it would be best to have the least possible body-fat you can get away with, but the finer you cut it, the less room you have for adversity. It's like racing cars and their fuel. Cheetahs have a very low body fat which allows them to perform very well, out perform their prey. But if they fail to catch their prey they very quickly start to waste away. Maintaining excess body fat is a waste of energy. However, what is excess, depends on what you do.
And Pioneer I don't think anyone mentioned being on any low-body fat train except you. If you're getting fat it's Ok =)
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The only reason six packs and low bodyfat is viewed as sexy is purely society and culture. Do you guys concur?
you need bodyfat for healthy hormone levels.
And Pioneer I don't think anyone mentioned being on any low-body fat train except you. If you're getting fat it's Ok =)
heh, yeah well the sentiment in what was said was fine, but I mean, the whole purpose of this thread was that HG's had incredible physiques through their fairly natural biological diet and activity. Modern people - while divorced form some of the advantages of HGs, have control over a ton of other variables like choice in diet and movement as well as access to a variety of technologies and ways of thinking. No one has to do anything or to compete with anyone, but certain results will correlate with certain habits. This doesn't seem to necessitate having a judgment on which build is best, just a cause and effect.
I'm certainly not in any race to lose the remaining body fat I have. I've had less in the past and it wasn't healthy as per my nutritional program I was on. I think most people won't associate low bf with health in all instances. At the moment its not been determined by myself whether having lower or high fat percentage is to my best health interests, as i'm inclined to appreciate either stance, but honestly it effects my eating or exercise habit not at all as you say because I'm content. If I wasn't then I would asses my diet/exercise/lifestyle etc...
as for paleo folks I do not know about what builds they preferred, but I think what AV and others refer to as 'fashion thin' is different from the trim and relatively healthy bodies of the HG's discussed or shown here. You'd have to ask a Masai whether they preferred a junk in the trunk Inuit or a playboy centerfold. Plus I'm pretty sure that the gaining bodyfat thing is seen as a temporary tool for modern peoples problems rather then a long term requirement for health (beyond the actual accepted lows for %).
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How are we supposed to do it, Sully? :)
Do you think that you or me are able to gain a bear-like fat?
I think that we are predisposed to be lean, even in winter. I'm more bulked-up now, but still lean, no matter how much I eat.
Yeah that's what I was trying to say. That we are supposed to be much leaner because we stay active in winter. Much more like wolves than bears.
That's what you took away from what I wrote right?
@Yuli I am only comparing the physique of that of a wild person eating raw wild foods. Your muscle mass going down can't be compared to that of our ancestors. They had to stay active even in winter.
I stay active all year round. Even in winter. My muscle mass stays relatively the same year round. But is increasing of course since I am growing.
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There must have been times when some of them were more or less sedentary.
Maybe in the coldest parts of the season when they had some meat frozen/preserved.
Or the fact that all the members of the tribe didn't all hunt, there must cave been some that stay at the campsite, taking care of the offspring etc
Or in tropical climates when theres is so much fruit in season and fish, there were probably tribes that didn't have to do too much at certain times.
I was saying its probably just as natural to fluctuate your activity levels.
of course if I got unfit from not exercising for a week that wouldn't make me so happy :P
When you look at animals like cats, they can spend long periods sedentary and stay very fit regardless, it could be humans are able to do that to an extent as well, especially with the right diet. Some apes are like that too, they spend long periods just hangin around... :P
When you have good muscle mass already then it makes sense that staying sedentary for a while won't hurt you, and I don't mean not moving at all, just not as much as usual. Otherwise if your muscles waste away so quickly when you don't move then that doesn't seem right. When I start to exercise all of a sudden after being sedentary for a while it doesn't feel problematic for me, in fact it feels more refreshing after a break.
Talking about that...Today I went biking like crazy after working at home most of the week. I am not tired and my legs are in no pain at all, it feels refreshing, I wanna go and do it again ha ha. I think during times like this the muscles may develop faster then lets say, biking every day.
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It's also not just the thickness of the subcuticular fat layer which affects the visibility of one's sick-pack, but also the degree of water-retention in the skin.
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Yup, a person on a raw omnivorous diet can mantain muscle better than a person eating garbage. I exercise everyday, but most of the time I am lounging, or doing very moderate movements, walking etc. I maintain/gain muscle and strength very well on a high raw animal foods diet.
You have to keep in mind, even if you got food. Like myself, I still got energy.
If our ancestors had food and still had energy, they were likely to dance, sing, make trinkets, sew, sex etc.
Not all movement/exercise is focused around the actual hunting or gathering.
You can make baskets, tools, spears, cloths, wrestle, play with kids etc.
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I am not tired and my legs are in no pain at all
Do at least 300 hindu squats in a raw and you'll feel the PAIN ;D
Several months ago I performed 400 ones in a row after a 2 months brake - as of the next day I was TRULY disabled ;)
But when I do them regularly I feel quite good.
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as of the next day I was TRULY disabled ;)
lol
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That's what you took away from what I wrote right?
Yeah, I probably missed your point a little bit. ;)
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And Pioneer I don't think anyone mentioned being on any low-body fat train except you. If you're getting fat it's Ok =)
Listen, why dont you analyze my post with a little more respect as it seems you took me out of context. And bro, Im leaner than you so me getting fat is not a factor, seems that you'd rather try to insult than have a serious conversation. It is true though, look at the posts on this topic, its all about being lean. Who said anyone had to be lean to be healthy. Its obviously a tradeoff being either lean or fat.
Seems everyone who responded to me took me out of context. Im just the kind of person who likes to shake things up a bit and tell it how it is. Everyone needs to reread my post. It is obvious that I was trying to say being real lean does not correlate with being healthy, nor does being fat necessarily correlate with being unhealthy.
And don't try to say that my post was not relevent to this topic. The post is hunter-gatherer physiques and what they did instead of modern exercises. Do you guys actually think the ideal hunter gatherer physique was to be lean? Are you kidding me? They wanted to store as much energy as possible. You think they were doing sit ups and working on their abs? You guys think they were trying to watch their weight? Get a six pack? You think the women even cared whether the males had six packs or not? Plain and simple, women cared about which man could bring home the bacon, in which case, the kill. Which male could build the best shelter and provide for his young. Which male could perform better.
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lol
Every time when I perform them after a longer break the PAIN is really excrutiatinig in the "aftermath"
Not comparable with anything.
Sully, do it and you'll see 8)
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Sully, do it and you'll see 8)
Ohh, I believe you. ;) They look tough!
@pioneer
I agree with you in some aspect, but I DON"T do situps and have defined abdominals. I climb trees, carry things, adventure in th woods, make spears, and do martial arts, and that's pretty much it, (besides random things like playing with my nephews or sisters dog etc.)
You say that a woman in paleo days would only care for a man that has a functional body and can provide food etc. Not a model doing sit-ups etc.
I agree. Its about a functional body, and not what body type is popular in today's media.
I don't promote getting as lean as possible or trying to burn off extra calories with workouts.
With my exercises I try to just mimic what I would be doing in the wild. Its meant to build a strong functional body, not to look like a model.
My body is highly functional, so (having a highly functional body) it's not by coincidence that I am leaner than the average american male my age, and that I have more muscle.
So you see, a body able to provide for a woman in the wild, is a functional body, and in turn a leaner stronger body than the average american.
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I don't see the point of the debate.
Being overweight does not make you functional enough to live in the wild.
And being underweight does not make you functional enough to live in the wild.
It's quite obvious.
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Sully, I agree with you and I am not singling you out, you're not the only one who spoke about being lean. There really is no debate about it either. Just trying to get rid of some of this lean dogma. There are plenty of lean athletes out there who are not really healthy, I've worked with them. Hell, I was one. I always was lean, but was not in good health at one point in my life. Health is about vitality and functionality, as we've already said.
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Just trying to get rid of some of this lean dogma.
Yes. It's good to get rid of this dogma. But I also noticed that some people in the raw community advocate a little too much fat on ones body. I think AV does that sometimes but I am not sure.
Hey, even as lean as Bruce Lee was. In one of his books it said he thought it was very imoprtant to have a thin layer of body fat.
Bruce Lee wasn't eating raw paleo, but it's interesting that it said he was fond of steaks. And even at a time ate liver once every week.\
Edit: Oh and he hated cheese. Haha. He probably wasn't used to it.
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Do at least 300 hindu squats in a raw and you'll feel the PAIN....
I know, first time I tried it I could not walk down the stairs, I was stuck upstairs for the day, lol
thats why the reason I didn't do this intense exercise right after a week break from exercise ;)
Listen, why dont you analyze my post with a little more respect as it seems you took me out of context. And bro, Im leaner than you so me getting fat is not a factor, seems that you'd rather try to insult than have a serious conversation...
I'm sure he was joking not trying to insult you... I don't think anyone here is against people having a good layer of fat especially as some paleos obviously did, as we all know dependent on so many factors, location, diet (paleo diets can vary greatly on location), genes etc. Perhaps that part of the story was not mentioned because we are interested in achieving a certain physique and we project how we want to look to our posts, I am sure thats why.
...You think the women even cared whether the males had six packs or not? Plain and simple, women cared about which man could bring home the bacon, in which case, the kill. Which male could build the best shelter and provide for his young. Which male could perform better.
Thats true a man had to be functional in those times. But how do you know women didn't care how he looked, do you know what went through their minds, was there no time perhaps women were laughing about their men while they were hunting, hee hee...
I am sure they thought about survival a lot, but if they had time to paint in caves or do dancing and singing, they probably had time to make fun of each other, and look at each others appearances...maybe someone had a funny nose, you think they would not be able to think that...
And among men too, I am sure if they competed for their women they compared each other, in how they hunt, how effective they are, maybe how good they dance, maybe how big their balls are! lol...sorry but I think they had those emotions too.
Sure they wern't checking out their abs in the mirror saying "hmm I gotta work on those more" but there was probably a degree of vanity...
Even animals like birds display vanity, for example the peacocks flashing their tails (which have nothing to do with survival), paleo humans were probably capable of similar "displays" seeing as their brains were even more developed...
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Wow, you make a really good points. I agree with you. I just am basically referring to todays society and it's sick views on what it is to be beautiful. In the end all that really matters is one's health.
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i agree...
but hey why not be healthy, be functionally strong, and if you want do some exercise to look good as well.
i really feel plenty of primitive people would be quite lean and muscular depending on the season... hunting without guns is tough work i'd imagine and a good workout.
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i agree...
but hey why not be healthy, be functionally strong, and if you want do some exercise to look good as well.
i really feel plenty of primitive people would be quite lean and muscular depending on the season... hunting without guns is tough work i'd imagine and a good workout.
Good points. When one really studies primordial man and tribes, one realizes that they did not care about their physiques, they tried to store as much energy as possible because food was relatively scarce. Same thing happens in the wild, the alpha wolf eats first and eats the most. Having fat does not correlate with being unhealthy. Being overly fat is surely unhealthy, but that was rare in primitive days.
The only reason why we have to watch what we eat today is because food is so available to us in any amount and any kind.
As for the seasons, you are exactly correct, however I am learning it is actually flipped from what everyone thinks. We actually eat the most in the summer, store the most fat and muscle to get ready for winter. During summer, food is more abundant with fruit and vegetables whereas in the winter paleo man survived almost 100% on animal. Because more carbohydrates are available in the summer, the primitive human body was primed for insulin increases and fat/ muscle storage. Paleo man also generally got the least sleep (6-9hrs) in the summer, and the most sleep (9-14hrs) in the winter. Therefore, the kind of hibernation we had created an environment where our metabolism was slowed and we did not need as much food. By January our fat stores were very depleted and we were very lean. Our leanest was right before spring when food was starting to get abundant again. Then we were in fat and muscle storing mode again.
You see, we are much like bears who store fat in the summer for the winter. When one knows about honest paleolithic life it baffles him/her that this nonsense of being lean means being healthy. This information is just the same fat phobic low fat nonsense the media spews out to young girls who inevitably become anorexic.
surely everyone wants to be lean, but it really is just for aesthetic reasons.
If being lean was the healthiest, then why do overweight people have lower mortality rates. Yep, thats right, people with slightly higher BMIs have the lowest mortality rates whereas people with the lowest BMI have the highest mortality rates and obese people are somewhere in the middle. This baffles people, but it is true, lower BMI's correlate with death. Don't believe me? Just look at every frail alzheimers or cancer patient.
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surely everyone wants to be lean, but it really is just for aesthetic reasons.
If that's the case, don't you think it's for a reason? Just like with taste/smell/touch etc.
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heres a jackpot of Native American images.
http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?id=10150102703945578
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs477.snc3/26124_10150106457365578_10150102703945578_11309809_2838620_n.jpg)
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If that's the case, don't you think it's for a reason? Just like with taste/smell/touch etc.
I know it is a reason, sure physical attraction, but that is not my point. I am speaking purely health, and it is not necessarily healthier to be lean, nor unhealthy to have some fat; simple concept.
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heres a jackpot of Native American images.
http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?id=10150102703945578
......
Nice collection of photos there!
Look at this guy here, the hairstyle, earnings and everything, so cool!
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs509.snc3/26764_10150157514525578_10150102703945578_11616014_1014476_n.jpg)
And this guy... he's a good looking man, check out his 'sneakers' too, I want those:
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs412.ash2/69001_10150301344055578_10150102703945578_15322189_380181_n.jpg)
Most of the Natives look of average weight, some being thinner some being bigger, there is no perfect physique as there will always be these natural variations.
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I know it is a reason, sure physical attraction, but that is not my point. I am speaking purely health, and it is not necessarily healthier to be lean, nor unhealthy to have some fat; simple concept.
right, but given that, this subject had a focus, and you presented something as if people were misinterpreting health based on some modern societal concept when all the records and shared info speak otherwise. In a sense, you are giving value to the fat = healthy concept largely on the merits of it being non-conventional thinking, which it isn't. Even if having more fat than HGs was more beneficial to health today, this does not mean it was prized then or in the paleolithic or any other thing you are associating with it. To use this to say that excess body fat is attractive or prized in nature is even more of a stretch. There is no indicator this is true. When it comes down to it if this is your main point, I think you should just accept that people here have probably heard this before and can address the physiques of HGs non superficially.
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To use this to say that excess body fat is attractive or prized in nature is even more of a stretch. There is no indicator this is true. When it comes down to it if this is your main point, I think you should just accept that people here have probably heard this before and can address the physiques of HGs non superficially.
I'm just curious how you think I said excess bodyfat was prized or attractive, when did I say this? Am I trying to prove this? No! I am trying to give a simple concept that people cant seem to understand. People ate when they were hungry, stopped when they were full and if necessary ate more to store more for famine. Are you once again trying to spew that nonsense that being fat is unhealthy? Once again, being overly fat is not healthy, but to be fat to the point where you cant see your abs is fine.
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I'm just curious how you think I said excess bodyfat was prized or attractive, when did I say this? Am I trying to prove this? No! I am trying to give a simple concept that people cant seem to understand. People ate when they were hungry, stopped when they were full and if necessary ate more to store more for famine.
hmm, this is unnecessarily aggressive and incorrect. I've already acknowledged that being fat in modern circumstances could be healthier, but that doesn't mean that pursuing being lean is strictly tied to being fashionable, or that being fashionable is somehow not paleo or also an inefficient body type in nature. Appearance and fashion are an intrinsic part of human culture and certain body types and features are sought after independent of cultural distortions, even if they might vary from culture to culture. It might be a simple concept that you are saying, but you can't make those assumptions about how people ate and lived, particularly if it doesn't match up with the evidence.
Im just the kind of person who likes to shake things up a bit and tell it how it is. Everyone needs to reread my post. It is obvious that I was trying to say being real lean does not correlate with being healthy, nor does being fat necessarily correlate with being unhealthy.
And don't try to say that my post was not relevent to this topic. The post is hunter-gatherer physiques and what they did instead of modern exercises. Do you guys actually think the ideal hunter gatherer physique was to be lean? Are you kidding me? They wanted to store as much energy as possible.
[...]You think the women even cared whether the males had six packs or not? Plain and simple, women cared about which man could bring home the bacon, in which case, the kill. Which male could build the best shelter and provide for his young. Which male could perform better.
Much of what you say are just assumptions based on your acceptance that being lean is somehow not practical and superficial in nature, so that is largely why you are getting flak for 'shaking things up' in this thread because that is just an not accurate start point. The idea that having more than accepted levels of bodyfat for health is not so ultimately groundbreaking or even so undeniably correct as to be so adamant about it when people were merely discussing HG physiques..
Are you once again trying to spew that nonsense that being fat is unhealthy? Once again, being overly fat is not healthy, but to be fat to the point where you cant see your abs is fine.
not sure if you meant to target this towards me as this was my last post here:
heh, yeah well the sentiment in what was said was fine, but I mean, the whole purpose of this thread was that HG's had incredible physiques through their fairly natural biological diet and activity. Modern people - while divorced form some of the advantages of HGs, have control over a ton of other variables like choice in diet and movement as well as access to a variety of technologies and ways of thinking. No one has to do anything or to compete with anyone, but certain results will correlate with certain habits. This doesn't seem to necessitate having a judgment on which build is best, just a cause and effect.
I'm certainly not in any race to lose the remaining body fat I have. I've had less in the past and it wasn't healthy as per my nutritional program I was on. I think most people won't associate low bf with health in all instances. At the moment its not been determined by myself whether having lower or high fat percentage is to my best health interests, as i'm inclined to appreciate either stance, but honestly it effects my eating or exercise habit not at all as you say because I'm content. If I wasn't then I would asses my diet/exercise/lifestyle etc...
as for paleo folks I do not know about what builds they preferred, but I think what AV and others refer to as 'fashion thin' is different from the trim and relatively healthy bodies of the HG's discussed or shown here. You'd have to ask a Masai whether they preferred a junk in the trunk Inuit or a playboy centerfold. Plus I'm pretty sure that the gaining bodyfat thing is seen as a temporary tool for modern peoples problems rather then a long term requirement for health (beyond the actual accepted lows for %).
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No, Im not targeting my replies to only you, but everyone.
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pretty cool pic
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/Junts2005/Hunting-Gathering/aboriginespearwoomera.jpg)
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Why do you think they're wearing loin cloths?
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\
(http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/0/35/148/35148272_1226498768_default_riefenstahl_africa_interv_08_0706281505_id_60475.jpg)
(http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/images/dienubav/281.jpg)
GEAAHHHH :P
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Why do you think they're wearing loin cloths?
I don't know, maybe European influence? Photo doeasn't look that old.
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GEAAHHHH :P
beautiful women !! My God!!!