Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Metallica on June 01, 2008, 11:38:15 am
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should we be taking supplements if so which ones ?
i feel supplementing with Vitamin C, Cal/MG isnt a bad idea?
i know Aajonus is against supplements, correct?
what are your thoughts on this.
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The only supplement that I need is sea salt otherwise I get easily dehydrated, get a rapid heartbeat and get over-heated.
I work out in the sun so I should be getting plenty of D3. If you don't get much sun, you might want to consider supplementing with cod liver oil or better yet, whole cod livers! But that wouldn't really be supplementing, would it?
The mineral ratios in raw meat are perfect - except for salt because animals are bled these days while our ancestors would have had access to it. Blood contains almost the exact opposite ratio of sodium to potassium as raw meat. One of our members, Lex, had an increase in bone density after going on his all raw meat, organs, and fat diet, which is the diet I chose to follow.
Craig
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Yes, Aajonus is against supplements, one reason why I'm in favour of him - most diet-gurus make their money from selling really dodgy supplements to their gullible clients.
As regards, the use of supplements, it's always best to get the nutrients, instead, from natural, raw foods. However, people coming from cooked/processed diets often are very severely deficient in certain nutrients, so that they sometimes need megadoses of certain supplements as a quick fix while they're looking for a more natural, raw alternative. I, for example, would undoubtedly have benefitted from temporary use of magnesium supplements, at the start of going raw, though I chose not to.
*Ah well, I should be off on my floight now, I guess this is better than just standing around the check-in gates.*
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The only supplement that I need is sea salt otherwise I get easily dehydrated, get a rapid heartbeat and get over-heated.
Craig
Craig, how much Sea Salt do you comsume a day?
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what does everyone think about taking Joint Supplements(Glucosamine/Chondrotin/MSM)?
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However, people coming from cooked/processed diets often are very severely deficient in certain nutrients,
this is definitely me; i was a life long processed eater. im extremely low in zinc, magnesium, copper and borderline low in b12; i just dont believe diet alone can bring my levels up. so i need to supplement for a few months
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I think there should be a distinction between qualities of supplements, and not paint them into a broad stroke. To say all supplements are bad, or they are good, doesn't seem like a reasonable statement to me.
Obviously the stuff you can get at GNC or from a pharmacy is crap. The stuff made in labs in pills with excipients is crap. Most supplements don't work and have negative side effects. Or they work a little bit, but aren't good for the condition in the long term like laxatives (their long term side effect is constipation...seriously!).
I also trust AV because he is against supplements, but I'm not sure I agree completely. I'm considering taking a systemic enzyme supplement "Neprinol" because I believe in the healing power of systemic enzymes and because the food I get is nowhere near as fresh as it could be. I also believe that nutrients could be harvested from natural sources (like b12 grown in bacteria on plants) and put in some kind of supplement that is usable and not harmful to the body, but I also believe that most companies will cut corners and don't truly care about finding the best way but rather a decent way that will make them the best money.
I hope to one day do my own research into diets and maybe supplements, and perhaps if I can learn enough craft my own and research them to find out if supplements really can work. It would be nice to find out that they don't and you should just eat whole foods, but that seems a tiny bit over-romanticized of a notion to me. Or taking it a step further, maybe you can achieve normal health (which is a great accomplishment, normal health by my definition is tribal type health) but you could achieve something more with supplements. For example the enzyme supplements and either hormone or hormone precursors. I do believe that even with a natural diet and good lifestyle your enzyme and hormone levels will still decrease with age, leading to loss of muscle tone, dry skin, low sex drive etc. (all age related symptoms). So perhaps we could find a way to support the body with a good diet and then just put a few extras in there in supplement form to keep it as vital as your peak.
The people that lead me to believe this is possible are: Peter Ragnar, Bob Delmontique and the author I'm currently reading John Thomas. They all have pictures of themselves in which they look younger and healthier than their age, even compared to tribal peoples or isolated people as per Weston Price photos. So clearly they're doing something right, check out Bob he's like 80+!
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Craig, how much Sea Salt do you comsume a day?
I don't measure it but if I had to guess, probably about a teaspoon.
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I think there should be a distinction between qualities of supplements, and not paint them into a broad stroke. To say all supplements are bad, or they are good, doesn't seem like a reasonable statement to me.
Obviously the stuff you can get at GNC or from a pharmacy is crap. The stuff made in labs in pills with excipients is crap. Most supplements don't work and have negative side effects. Or they work a little bit, but aren't good for the condition in the long term like laxatives (their long term side effect is constipation...seriously!).
I also trust AV because he is against supplements, but I'm not sure I agree completely. I'm considering taking a systemic enzyme supplement "Neprinol" because I believe in the healing power of systemic enzymes and because the food I get is nowhere near as fresh as it could be. I also believe that nutrients could be harvested from natural sources (like b12 grown in bacteria on plants) and put in some kind of supplement that is usable and not harmful to the body, but I also believe that most companies will cut corners and don't truly care about finding the best way but rather a decent way that will make them the best money.
I hope to one day do my own research into diets and maybe supplements, and perhaps if I can learn enough craft my own and research them to find out if supplements really can work. It would be nice to find out that they don't and you should just eat whole foods, but that seems a tiny bit over-romanticized of a notion to me. Or taking it a step further, maybe you can achieve normal health (which is a great accomplishment, normal health by my definition is tribal type health) but you could achieve something more with supplements. For example the enzyme supplements and either hormone or hormone precursors. I do believe that even with a natural diet and good lifestyle your enzyme and hormone levels will still decrease with age, leading to loss of muscle tone, dry skin, low sex drive etc. (all age related symptoms). So perhaps we could find a way to support the body with a good diet and then just put a few extras in there in supplement form to keep it as vital as your peak.
The people that lead me to believe this is possible are: Peter Ragnar, Bob Delmontique and the author I'm currently reading John Thomas. They all have pictures of themselves in which they look younger and healthier than their age, even compared to tribal peoples or isolated people as per Weston Price photos. So clearly they're doing something right, check out Bob he's like 80+!
I hear you on the enzymes. I don't think you could really overdose on them since they're basically just specially arranged proteins anyway. It'd probably give your your body a rest from having to produce so many digestive enzymes when you were cooked. If there's any relationship there. Do systemic enzymes get absorbed intact?
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There was some research that they do get absorbed, work with radio-tagged enzymes. So if you believe that kind of stuff (and I do depending on who funded it) then I'd say yes they are absorbed intact.
The main purpose of them is to digest the fibrin that is created whenever you cause inflammation or just from aging. That's why old people are stiff and young people are supple, the fibrin in and around the muscles, joints and organs.
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http://www.spectracell.com
this was the lab i used, its suppose to be very accurate, i was extremely low in zinc, mag, copper, and my antioxidants were low...
im hoping to get them balanced within 6 months
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I find about 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of salt per day is plenty. It doesn't take much.
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My SUPPLEMENTS
1500mg Vitamin C
4mg Copper
45mg Zinc picolinate
200-400mg Selenium
1-2ounce of Magnesium oil ( usually i rub it directly onto my skin or do a soak in it)
B6 100mg
Probiotics ( Culturelle )
Saccharomyces Bouldardii
i use these supplements maybe a few times a week
R lipoic acid
Iron
Maca
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My SUPPLEMENTS
1500mg Vitamin C
4mg Copper
45mg Zinc picolinate
200-400mg Selenium
1-2ounce of Magnesium oil ( usually i rub it directly onto my skin or do a soak in it)
B6 100mg
Probiotics ( Culturelle )
Saccharomyces Bouldardii
i use these supplements maybe a few times a week
R lipoic acid
Iron
Maca
Metallica,
Satya mentioned copper as something not to get too much of and is one of the reasons she limits liver to once a week. Maybe eating some liver (preferably raw) would be better than a supplement. I'm surprised you're low in iron ad B-12. How long have you been eating RAF (raw animal foods)?
It could be the processed carbs that are preventing you from absorbing some of these nutrients (or causing you to use them up). The magnesium is probably a good idea if you're eating any kind of dairy but it will give you diarrhea if your Mg starts to overtake your Ca intake. Calcium tends to be constipating while magnesium is laxative in nature. The two in a 1:1 ratio balance each other.
I don't really do supplements besides the salt but it's recommended not to split up the B vitamins. It's best to take a B-complex rather than any of them singly. Yet again, this has to do with ratios.
Craig
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well i was SAD for most of my life, vegetarian for 1 year and raw vegan for 1 year..
i been semi raw paleo for 2 years now....
i got a blood test which is suppose to be extremely accurate and tested very low in Zinc, Copper, Magnesium, and borderline low in b12, Iron..
im think its possible due to my hashimotos disease which messes up my gut?
i remember my naturo doc told me my problem is in my gut... so there is where im looking.
i also think i have candida.
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I don't see a bunch of supplements healing the gut or candida. I think the first approach should be to use food. If you could go a month or so eating 1lb or more raw meat a day and occasionally getting in as much raw organs (preferable liver for those nutrients you are lacking) and then get a blood test I would think there would be great change. I'm not sure about zinc but all of those other nutrients are plentiful in the liver, and many are plentiful in muscle as well.
Candida I would imagine is automatically reversed when you cut out carbs, so try going very low carb for a month. Stomach problems seem like another thing that naturally get worked on by good diet.
If none of your symptoms get better that's when I would go for supplements, and then keep trying to ween off of them and see if the blood work stays good with just food.
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I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on a multi-mineral/fulvic acid supplement.
I have a feeling I could benefit from this, just to make sure I'm getting all the minerals that I should be, as I'm sure that today's soil quality is nowhere near what it used to be.
US Wellness meats sells one: http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Categories.bok?category=Nutraceuticals%3AConcentrated+Liquid+Minerals
and then there is Shilajit, which I've taken before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shilajit
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/fulvic.htm
So I'm wondering what you guys think, if it's necessary, and if so which one would you go with? The one from US Wellness meats seems overpriced, but it has the benefit of being standardized
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I'd try both and see which one you feel better on. What do you mean by standardized for the US Wellness one? The other one gets cool points for having a Sanskrit name and being "ancient" though.
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should we be taking supplements if so which ones ?
i feel supplementing with Vitamin C, Cal/MG isnt a bad idea?
i know Aajonus is against supplements, correct?
what are your thoughts on this.
In my experience, supplements are no match for real raw nutritious, organic, wild food.
And supplements are potentially polluting to the body.
I feel that if you need supplements, your diet is no good, your food sources are not nutritious.
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The trouble with supplements is that they are almost always full of unnatural substances such as trans-fats(eg:- magnesium-stearate) which are used as fillers or preservatives. I've only ever come across one single exception to that rule, which was Dr Ron's website. Otherwise, all other supplements, however "raw" or "pure" in their description, are not worth taking, as they all have some form of artificial preservative/filler/binder or whatever. Of course, it's not always possible to get hold of the "real thing" such as some organs, so...
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have you tried this yet http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Categories.bok?category=Nutraceuticals%3AConcentrated+Liquid+Minerals ?
i believe supplements are very important to take... i was reading on Jack Lalanne he takes about 40 supplements a day.
also the author of rawpaleodiet.org takes a lot of supplements and recommends them...
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Yep, I got it some time last week and I've been taking it as directed
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have you tried this yet http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Categories.bok?category=Nutraceuticals%3AConcentrated+Liquid+Minerals ?
i believe supplements are very important to take... i was reading on Jack Lalanne he takes about 40 supplements a day.
also the author of rawpaleodiet.org takes a lot of supplements and recommends them...
One should always be wary of gurus recommending a mass of supplements. The reason is that diet-gurus make most of their money from kickbacks from the supplement-manufacturers they recommend. Of course, there are exceptions such as Aajonus, but Vinny and LaLanne and the warrior diet guru/Dr Atkins etc. take the whole supplement-recommendation to ridiculously greedy extremes.
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Could you clarify that last sentence? It kind of reads like those three people take supplement recommendation to greedy extremes.
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Could you clarify that last sentence? It kind of reads like those three people take supplement recommendation to greedy extremes.
Sorry, error in grammar. I've changed it to refer to Aajonus as an exception to the rule of diet-gurus making money on supplements.
But you only have to look at their individual websites to see how many dodgy supplements they sell such as ionized water etc.
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Come to think of it, I even feel guilty recommending Dr Ron's supplements, but the trouble is that harsh government laws in the West prevent us from buying such things as raw adrenals from organic, grassfed animals etc.
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what do you think of this product
http://www.naturalzing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25_40&products_id=93
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honestly, ridiculously overpriced with a lot of worthless/unnecessary ingredients at levels that are so low there's no point in their inclusion.
it really isn't that hard to get enough vitamins from food
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But you only have to look at their individual websites to see how many dodgy supplements they sell such as ionized water etc.
Here's an interesting look at ionized water:
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html
I really like the way he has tables with "hype" on one side and "science" on another. (We should try that sometime in our rawpaleo.com articles.) I always did like chemistry, but I have only taken general chemistry for engineers. I am not too well-versed in organic chemistry, but I think the site has sound science.
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Come to think of it, I even feel guilty recommending Dr Ron's supplements, but the trouble is that harsh government laws in the West prevent us from buying such things as raw adrenals from organic, grassfed animals etc.
You don't have to feel guilty. We understand. What's Dr. Ron's website?
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just ordered some MSM, seems like a good supplement
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You don't have to feel guilty. We understand. What's Dr. Ron's website?
Edwin,
You can find it here: http://www.drrons.com/
Craig
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this MUlti seems decent
http://products.mercola.com/multivitamin-vital-minerals/
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boxcar how you making out with http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Categories.bok?category=Nutraceuticals%3AConcentrated+Liquid+Minerals
does this product contain 100% of your daily vits/mins?