Author Topic: High fat diet problems  (Read 7949 times)

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Metallica

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High fat diet problems
« on: August 17, 2008, 10:36:37 am »
is there any problems with having a high fat diet?

i have heard High Fat diets can Induce INsulin resistance, i believe there are a buch of studies on pub md about this.

Offline wodgina

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2008, 10:45:33 am »
Yeah it causes heart disease, diabetes, strokes, fatty liver...
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Metallica

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2008, 10:47:34 am »
but isnt fat the primary fuel source?

this is where it gets confusing, paleo man diet was extremely high fat ( 60 - 80% )

Offline wodgina

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2008, 10:49:49 am »
Well who do you believe? obese diabetic doctors or muscular trim paleo/primitive peoples?
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Metallica

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2008, 10:58:02 am »
paleo. but i have heard people doing a high fat, low carb diet ( keto ) and there a1c was slowly increasing and they were feeling bad.

Offline wodgina

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2008, 11:07:00 am »
Were these people eating a ketogenic diet high in cooked dairy and cooked meat and animal fats along with artificially sweetened sodas or were they eating raw paleo foods?
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Metallica

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2008, 11:19:22 am »
thats true, you just dont know...

wood, whats a sample of your diet, so i can get some ideas of where to begin, if you wouldnt mind.

Offline wodgina

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2008, 11:26:18 am »


ok right now i'm eating (it's all grassfed) 500grams of ground meat which I put in a food processor with 200 grams of suet with a fair amount of sea salt (tasty!). I may bolt around 200+ grams of liver  later with sips of mineral water if I'm still hungry.

Bolt- Is Aajonus speak for knocking it back like your swallowing some tablets or a shot of spirits.

“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Metallica

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2008, 11:32:27 am »
you basically swallow liver whole?

is that good?

i actually though about mincing raw meat ( organic meat ) and putting it into little balls and swallowing it whole, but im not sure how good that is since Chewing is the first step to digestion.
and its not to much fun swallowing tiny balls of raw organ meat

Offline wodgina

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2008, 11:42:55 am »
chop liver up into tiny pieces, easy to bolt because it's slimy...you will learn to enjoy raw meat believe me! but you have to be psychologically open to it or else you never going to start this diet!!! maybe you need to see Aajonus.

for me I was desperate, stuck in a rut and had lost all hope, I was also in pain which is a great motivator.

You know a lady on Vinnie's RVAF forum cured her Grave's disease with the primal diet maybe you should contact her.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Satya

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2008, 11:48:44 am »
Well who do you believe? obese diabetic doctors or muscular trim paleo/primitive peoples?

Bless you, Andrew.  You are feisty and sexy and awake!  Carry on in your slashing of myth and your bolting of meat.  Come winter I plan to try an almost all carnivore plan.  Until I try it, I certainly cannot speak to how it is on the body. 

But you are spot on in that unhealthy doctors don't know jack about nutrition.  If they did, would so many people be unhealthy?  Oh, maybe they do know, but they want the money from the ever present chronic diseases to make their yacht payments.  Ever think about that when blindly following their advice, oh believers?

Metallica

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 10:23:32 am »
Anyway here are the studies:


Insulin resistance depends on fat content (saturated fat=bad, monounsaturated=good):

http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive...1/msg00272.html

http://www.springerlink.com/content...85/fulltext.pdf


High-fat induces insulin-resistance:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/350/7/664

"The lean, insulin-resistant offspring of patients with type 2 diabetes had severe insulin resistance, as compared with insulin-sensitive control subjects matched for age, height, weight, and activity. The difference could be attributed largely to a reduction of approximately 70 percent in insulin-stimulated nonoxidative muscle glucose metabolism. Using 1H magnetic resonance spectroscopy to measure intramyocellular lipid content, we found that insulin resistance in muscle was accompanied by an increase of approximately 80 percent in intramyocellular lipid content in the insulin-resistant subjects, as compared with the insulin-sensitive control subjects. These data are consistent with those of previous studies in humans7,8,9 and rodents,31,32 which have suggested that dysregulated intramuscular fatty acid metabolism has an important causative role in insulin resistance and may have a similar role in fat-induced insulin resistance in the skeletal muscle of the insulin-resistant offspring of patients with type 2 diabetes."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12108518

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14665711?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryP anel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2547860?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryP anel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

http://submit.clinsci.org/cs/113/cs1130417.htm


Low-carb improves insulin sensitivity:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16436102?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryP anel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15767618?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryP anel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1461145?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryP anel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

"Just for grins, take a look at this classic study done in a metabolic ward comparing what is basically a Protein Power diet to a low-fat, high-carb diet. If you look you will see that the PP diet lowered the fasting insulin levels by about 50 percent whereas the low-fat diet lowered them by about 8 percent, and 8 percent came about only because the calories were so low.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/63/2/174

-Dr. Eades"

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2008, 02:27:53 pm »
Our bodies are wonderfully flexible machines that can adapt to many different food sources and environments.  Many studies have shown that if a particular food requiring a specific enzyme is removed from the diet, then the body will reduce and finally stop manufacturing that enzyme.  If the food is reintroduced, the body will not handle it efficiently in the beginning as the necessary enzymes are not present for proper digestion, however, the body will again slowly ramp up the production of the necessary enzymes to efficiently digest that food if it remains a consistent part of the diet again.

I would expect a similar behaviour as far as insulin is concerned.  After many years of eating only meat, I'm sure that my body has pretty much shut down insulin production and there is a good chance that upon taking a glucose tolerance test (drinking a glass of pure glucose and then measuring the level of blood glucose over several hours), I'm sure that I would test diabetic also.  Since my body hasn't had to deal with large influxes of glucose for an extended period of time (years), I would expect it to shut down production to accommodate only the the very small swings I get eating my all meat diet.

What none of the extracts discussed was what happens to insulin production after giving the body the same amount of time to re-adapt to the high carb diet that they gave to the test subjects (rats?) to initially adapt to the high-fat diet.  They seemed to be one-way tests.

Stephen Phinney found the same types of errors in the initial studies done on keto adapting athletes.  The researchers would start the test by changing the diet to high-fat, low-carb, and performance would drop within the first week.  The researchers would then stop the study because it was clear that a ketogenic diet was bad for athletic performance.  The real problem was that not one of the studies ever gave the test subjects enough time on the high-fat diet to allow their bodies to keto adapt.  Phinney did run such a test and found that after about 8 weeks the test subjects were back to their initial performance levels but now eating a high-fat diet - their bodies had adapted but it took significant time.

I always look for this bias when I read studies or research extracts and usually find it.  The time it takes the body to adapt is also the reason that I don't make rapid changes in my own dietary testing.  I tend to stick with things for a couple of months (and often longer) and let the body adapt and stabilize before I make the next change. 

Lex

Offline Nicola

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2008, 06:43:26 pm »

ok right now i'm eating (it's all grassfed) 500grams of ground meat which I put in a food processor with 200 grams of suet with a fair amount of sea salt (tasty!). I may bolt around 200+ grams of liver  later with sips of mineral water if I'm still hungry.

Bolt- Is Aajonus speak for knocking it back like your swallowing some tablets or a shot of spirits.



http://www.livinlowcarbdiscussion.com/showthread.php?tid=367

Charles has been on about cramps and over eating when he adds salt to meat - now you are eating salt...what can you say has changed for you? Do you notice any change on digestion (in other words your poo ???)?

Nicola

Offline wodgina

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Re: High fat diet problems
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2008, 09:03:15 pm »
http://www.livinlowcarbdiscussion.com/showthread.php?tid=367

Charles has been on about cramps and over eating when he adds salt to meat - now you are eating salt...what can you say has changed for you? Do you notice any change on digestion (in other words your poo ???)?

Nicola


No effects on digestion, why? what do you suspect?

I haven't added salt for two days since because I haven't craved it.

All the fat I eat now digests since zero carb

“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

 

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