Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Off Topic => Topic started by: TylerDurden on September 06, 2008, 01:28:44 am
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Out of boredom, I decided to ask a quirky question about RPF members, here!
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I am not. The skin seems to protect my head. Just pull it back when I have to pee. 8)
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Yes.
In our country it is unacceptable for a Filipina woman to marry or entertain in courtship a Filipino man who is uncircumcised.
I got circumsised when I was 13 years old.
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ouch! never knew that, i guess its worth it though ;D
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I don't think anyone in my age group was circumcised in the UK at that time unless the parents asked them to.
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Yes but I wish I hadn't been. I agree with Sully that it protects the head. The most sensitive part is exposed and becomes desensitized as a result. An analogy would be running barefooted vs running with shoes. Protected feet are more sensitive. I'm sure that if foreskins served no purpose, there'd be no need to be born with them.
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Yes.
In our country it is unacceptable for a Filipina woman to marry or entertain in courtship a Filipino man who is uncircumcised.
I got circumsised when I was 13 years old.
Edwin,
I just have to ask. How is she to know? Is it acceptable for her to check first? ;D
I agree with Andrew... I'm glad I don't remember the experience! Ouch!
Craig
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If they are still teenagers or even older, any of her male friends or relatives may try to verify. It's not uncommon for high school students to compare the different kinds of circumcision cuts they have.
There are doctor checkups and everyone in the school will hear about who is still uncircumsized.
For teenagers, boys joke about who is uncircumsized, and shame falls on who is not.
Shouting expletives at one another, you can shout "supot" / uncircumsized to your "enemy". You can also shout "kupal" to your enemy... "kupal" is that milky white dirt that smells bad on the uncircumsized if he does not know how to clean his uncircumsized penis. This is what makes Filipinos in general think the uncircumsized is unclean.
If the man and the woman are older, it is assumed that the Filipino man is circumsized. If he is a foreigner, usually they are not circumsized and I think many Filipinas will be accommodating that the foreigner is uncircumsized but he just needs to know how to clean his penis so there is no bad smell and no "kupal".
I'm thinking about whether to circumsize my sons or not. My wife is vehemently FOR circumcision. I said that if nature meant men to be circumsized then men should have been born circumsized. But my wife will not hear any argument for not circumsizing our sons.
I would most probably have my sons circumsized. Too much societal pressure. Imagine not being able to court a girl because you are "supot" and in those teenage years, that kind of pressure is unbearable for boys.
Edwin,
I just have to ask. How is she to know? Is it acceptable for her to check first? ;D
I agree with Andrew... I'm glad I don't remember the experience! Ouch!
Craig
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Yes.
In our country it is unacceptable for a Filipina woman to marry or entertain in courtship a Filipino man who is uncircumcised.
I got circumsised when I was 13 years old.
That surprises me. I'd always thought that Roman Catholics were much less likely to accept circumcision, due to the whole notion of the integrity/beauty of the whole human body(also St Paul was vehemently against it:-
http://www.cirp.org/library/history/
I know that there are Muslims in the Phillipines but I'd assumed that they were in a minority, compared to the Roman Catholics, there. Perhaps this is a practice left over from before the Spaniards arrived?
Circumcised at 13? That must have been frightful. The usual reason given for why circumcision is OK, is that it's done during infancy when the baby is not fully self-aware.
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I don't think anyone in my age group was circumcised in the UK at that time unless the parents asked them to.
It seems to be very rare in the UK. It's only practised, really, by Jews and Muslims and some of the African immigrants.
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Yes but I wish I hadn't been. I agree with Sully that it protects the head. The most sensitive part is exposed and becomes desensitized as a result. An analogy would be running barefooted vs running with shoes. Protected feet are more sensitive. I'm sure that if foreskins served no purpose, there'd be no need to be born with them.
You do know there is such a thing as "foreskin restoration/foreskin reconstruction"?
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Circumcised at 13? That must have been frightful. The usual reason given for why circumcision is OK, is that it's done during infancy when the baby is not fully self-aware.
The circumsize when born trend was being done by some people around the 70s and 80s, but beginning the 1990s, the trend is back to the more traditional circumsize at around 10 to 12 years old.
Basically the reason is the baby is too small, the doctor might chop off is penis; and the baby is fully self-aware and gets into horrific pain at such a young age.
At 10 to 12 years old, it is a right of passage that every Filipino boy is mentally conditioned to go through with. I had to remind my father to circumsize me, that is why I felt I was overage at 13 to be circumsized. We did laugh at a rather tall high school classmate when he was found out to be uncircumsized at a medical check up. He had his circumsicion at 16. Man, that is old.
Traditionally, before medical times, the boys in the province at around 10 to 12 years old on summer break would line up to be circumsized by the local healer who wielded a very sharp axe and "CHOP" one by one. The boys are asked to chew guava leaves while in line. Then CHOP. The boy spits his guava leaves on his just chopped penis foreskin as an antiseptic. Then jumps into the clean river just beside the line. Then he goes home for healing and wears their mothers' dusters.
My circumsicion was done in a hospital. My dad's and my grandfathers' circumsicions were done the traditional way.
It will be a painful 2 weeks. But it is a rite of passage every Filipino boy has to go through. After that, he feels he is going to grow up to be a REAL MAN and has the confidence to court women now that he is circumsized.
I never thought of a religious connection with circumsicion, it may be a Filipino tradition which has nothing to do with Christianity or Islam.
Here is a nice web page http://www.circumstitions.com/Philippines.html
Learn more about circumcision in the philippines when you search for the words: circumcision Philippines
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Basically the reason is the baby is too small, the doctor might chop off is penis; and the baby is fully self-aware and gets into horrific pain at such a young age.
At 10 to 12 years old, it is a right of passage that every Filipino boy is mentally conditioned to go through with. I had to remind my father to circumsize me, that is why I felt I was overage at 13 to be circumsized. We did laugh at a rather tall high school classmate when he was found out to be uncircumsized at a medical check up. He had his circumsicion at 16. Man, that is old.
Yes, that makes sense, as one of the key points made by anti-circumcision groups is that there is a small chance of failure due to the knife slipping etc.(0.2 %/2.0%?), a figure which is even higher outside the US. And babies can experience trauma.
There's something to be said for rites of passage. Some hunter-gatherer tribes have been pretty brutal in the past re subjecting their sons to such rituals. The argument is, apparently, that the tougher the "test", the more value the person will place on becoming a fully adult member of the tribe/society, facing up to responsibilities etc. - like Groucho Marx stated(more or less - no one wants to join a club where just anyone can become a member). Cults and secret societies also go for elaborate,tough rituals in order to gain respect from the new member. Hazing in US colleges is such an example. Still, I'd far rather have done a really dangerous puberty-initiation-rite such as the Masais'(ie killing a lion with a spear), than more drastic alterations.
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The funny thing is, the skin didn't come all the way back untill I started to go through puberty. In about two weeks after going through puberty when I was younger the skin was able to retract all the way back after I fiddled with it for a bit.
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Yes, sure!
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My mom never saw the logic in hacking off a part of the penis. She kind of saw it as a barbaric ancient religious practice that would reduce a males sexual pleasure for sadistic purposes. I some what share her belief, all those arguments they give to get it done are kind of outrageous. I've never had problems, and I don't think I ever will.
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I made a thread about it on 'my' old raw community. http://www.giveittomeraw.com/forum/topics/1407416:Topic:291430?id=1407416%3ATopic%3A291430&page=2&feed=yes&xn_auth=no (http://www.giveittomeraw.com/forum/topics/1407416:Topic:291430?id=1407416%3ATopic%3A291430&page=2&feed=yes&xn_auth=no) Some members are no longer members, so their replies disappeared, which can make it a confusing read. I called it FGM/MGM there (female genital mutilation/male genital mutilation); because I think raw vegans are mostly opposed to it.
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Interesting that Germany is finally trying to ban male circumcision:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18604664 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18604664)
About time.
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In tact, thank you very much! One of like 5 things my mom did (or didn't do, since I just found out she actually tried to, but the jew wouldn't do unjewish babies, thank lucifer christ for that little bit of dogma) right in raising me.
I used to be embarrassed in the locker room with the other chappies but now I'm pretty proud that I wasn't mutilated.
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Here's a cool video where Daniel Vitalis discusses circumcision. I am honestly glad to say I wasn't circumcised. It makes sense to keep it covered and sensitive until an erection for sex. I don't wear underwear even with jeans, and have no issue. But my friend said when he wore no underwear with jeans, it made his head raw from the rubbing. Simply cause he was circumcised. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wHwsygNWW2s# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wHwsygNWW2s#)!
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To me circumcision especially to babies is akin to the barbaric ritual of binding a girls feet in japan that must cause deep unconscious issues. It is a cultural mutilation practice to keep males subdued. I can't believe any modern woman would want to do that to her son let alone the boy's father! After going through a cultural sacrifice I'd think males would want to spare their sons. Any other body parts you want to cut off while you're at it? I bet if we cut off the left thumbs of our males they'd be better behaved too.
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first, feet binding is practiced in China, not Japan. second, comparing taking off little skin and limb mutilation is really silly. as far as i can tell there is no functional issues. maybe a little less sensitive but no loss of functionality. while feet binding can make one disabled. to me it is no more barbaric than ear piercings.
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first, feet binding is practiced in China, not Japan. second, comparing taking off little skin and limb mutilation is really silly. as far as i can tell there is no functional issues. maybe a little less sensitive but no loss of functionality. while feet binding can make one disabled. to me it is no more barbaric than ear piercings.
I don't think comparing it to piercings is really accurate. But I get that it's not cutting off a finger.
Still, I don't think circumsion is really logical. It just doesn't make sense to make alterations to a natural physique like that.
It's my understanding it used to be done to make sex less pleasurable. And now today I've seen websites (likely government or public health related) saying it can prevent STD's. Which is likely bull.
here's one such link - http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2009/03/25/circumcision-guards-against-stds (http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2009/03/25/circumcision-guards-against-stds)
Any body care to comment on whether there's any merit to circumsision actually preventing STD's?
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/male-circumcision-and-the_b_249728.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/male-circumcision-and-the_b_249728.html)
and so on.
The notion that circumcion hardly affects sex is just pure rubbish. On an anecdotal level, women who've had sex with both types of men report that sex with uncircumcised men was far better. The reasons are as follows:- the extra foreskin apparently allowed women to have sex with less lubrication needed in the vagina. Also, the reduced ability re stimulation in uncircumcised males causes them to insist more on oral and anal sex in order to achieve orgasm, and vaginal sex is more violent in order to achieve orgasm:-
eg:-
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Eeeb_Sub2G8J:www.noharmm.org/bju.htm+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Eeeb_Sub2G8J:www.noharmm.org/bju.htm+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk)
The only apparent "benefit" of circumcision is that sex with condoms when one is uncircumcised is less pleasurable. Which is why many men ask sex workers, with virtually zero chance of success, to not force the use of condoms during sex.
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"Experienced" ladies I've talked to say circumsised taste and smell better and cleaner... it's the culture in my country.
Yesterday my 11 year old was asking about circumsision and I said NO.
I said it was a bullshit harmful tradition that had to stop.
For him I had all the excuse with his current healing eczema. I said what if you were cut and your penis didn't heal?
And for the Filipinas who culturally prefer circumsised? He asked.
I said in his generation the people will be informed that circumsision is bullshit.
The too sensitive head part is true for some men. My driver says he ejaculates in only 4 pumps. That is a possible side effect I cannot yet explain to my boy. I don't have that problem. But it's a good concrete example I can explain to him.
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Oops - of course China - excuse the brain spasm - typed the wrong country! -[
They are the same in that they are used to control a population! They change the appearance and function of the human body. Just because it's the function in sex doesn't mean it isn't as detrimental to some of those who it is done to. If a man chooses to do it when he becomes an adult and is completely informed regarding how it is going to affect him it's another thing entirely. Piercing parts of the body that are vital to function for babies and young children would also be mutilation. A made up example would be if a culture had the practice of piercing their babies' tongues so their ability to eat and taste all the flavors is affected.
I think most men in the US don't even consciously realize that they were mutilated AS BABIES by their own parents which effects their entire lifelong sex enjoyment and the enjoyment of their partners and is done to keep them and their women in line sexually, behaviorally and psychologically.
All the stuff about health reasons to do it are totally bullshit.
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"Experienced" ladies I've talked to say circumsised taste and smell better and cleaner... it's the culture in my country.
Yesterday my 11 year old was asking about circumsision and I said NO.
I said it was a bullshit harmful tradition that had to stop.
For him I had all the excuse with his current healing eczema. I said what if you were cut and your penis didn't heal?
And for the Filipinas who culturally prefer circumsised? He asked.
I said in his generation the people will be informed that circumsision is bullshit.
The too sensitive head part is true for some men. My driver says he ejaculates in only 4 pumps. That is a possible side effect I cannot yet explain to my boy. I don't have that problem. But it's a good concrete example I can explain to him.
Good for you standing up for your son when he is yet too young to understand it all for himself!
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"Experienced" ladies I've talked to say circumsised taste and smell better and cleaner... it's the culture in my country.
It's cheap to think that way. It takes the sacred out of the sex. Imagine a world where lovers felt blessed to meet each other intimately. Where our sex organs were met with innocence and curiosity. Instead it's judgement and preconceived ideals here, there, mostly everywhere. Anyway, isn't sex carnal, and hot, and even stinky :P? Really, who's selling this?
I think its the culture in this country too. -[ Most people still do it here, and seem to be pleased about it. I've um seen it all as a nurse, not as a partner, so I can't speak for taste, but it is really just a health and hygiene thing. If a person is clean and healthy they look and smell and likely taste pleasant. If not, no. Dirty, sick men are incredibly disgusting, whether they're altered or original.
I think male and female circumcision is vile, cruel, evil. I have nothing good to say about it. I've seen it performed, I hate it. I have to clench down on myself with all of my will and repeat that I have to keep quiet. I get so upset. I can't let it go. I still see those helpless baby boys madly sucking on sugar water as the butcher slices through foreskin, leaving their penis mutilated. Everybody's always so pleased. While I choke back vomit and tears. It makes me wish I could burn the whole place down. --- please excuse the emotional outburst. It's therapeutic letting it out.
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Just the thought of it makes me feel the same way Adora and I haven't seen it done. It seems to me the perfect symbol - the ultimate expression - of the horrors that we do to one another in the name of culture. I don't think I could have been able to hold it together like you were able to.
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And another thing - I remember my girl friends a few years back getting their clitorises pierced. They wanted to give more pleasure to their men. I thought, and still think ~ Since when is the man ever not pleasured, and what about the scar tissue on your precious little clit :o, which part of that little powerhouse of pleasure are you willing to loose feeling in? There choice was midline. I barely understand myself, but the rest of the world is just nuts.
Dorothy, I'm not proud to have "held together" :'(
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You had to hold it together to keep your job and feed yourself and your daughter. You losing it wouldn't have changed what was happening. I'm amazed at how numb and brainwashed people are -- they would have not understood at all what your problem was and just got you fired with no good coming from it. Maybe sharing your experience during it and how horrible it was might make a difference though to someone who is on the fence here or somewhere else. The graphic nature of your description should be enough to make any mother refuse to have that done to their baby.
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Dorothy thanks for what you said. I know your right, in my head, but....
Mother's don't watch. They say I can't see that, and spin out of the door, for a coffee.
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Dorothy thanks for what you said. I know your right, in my head, but....
Mother's don't watch. They say I can't see that, and spin out of the door, for a coffee.
Jeez - If you can't "see" it - maybe it's a clue that you shouldn't be letting someone else do it to your baby??? duh.
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The world is truly mad in some instances, but that is a manifestation of how backwards we are because of operating from improper premises. But the pendulum will swing back the other direction and it will all be an unpleasant memory, just like slavery and other unsavory, cruel and barbaric customs. I saw a crunchy mama at the co-op with a bumper sticker on her car that read something like "Circumcision is mutilation" and I gave her some praise in the parking lot to show my appreciation that she thought it was important enough to raise awareness about the problem.
I will have a baby sibling born c section on friday and I have to make my objections known to my dad and stepmom in case the baby is a boy. Last time I didn't feel it was my place, because I was younger and less sure of myself, but this time I'm going to at least make them aware of it. I'll also be sending them an email with photos of the process. I saw a video of the procedure on youtube and it is infuriating. For the sake of the energy at the birth site I'll have to detach a bit and just let it go whatever happens. It won't help to bring unhappy energy to the situation. Can't believe that a society calling itself 'civilized' and 'modern' can even permit the butchery.
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Hi Thoth
I agree it is best to keep the birth place positive. Can you discuss it today? C section is pretty bad too. I have absolute confidence in your ability to make an excellent case not to circumcise their baby. They may still, but if anybody could persuade, you could. You've mentioned that the dynamics are challenging, but why wait, center yourself and let it fly. I sent love.
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I asked my dad why it was done. He said the doctor insisted, and that it was cleaner. In Detroit in the early 70's, nearly ALL boys were circumcised. I am not Jewish or Muslim, never have been, never will be. I was very angry because that should have been MY choice, and no one else's.
If there was no reason for foreskin, it would not have developed. Cutting it off is stupid. If I have any sons they will be 100% whole when they leave the hospital (or birthing yurt, or kiddie pool, or bathtub, or whatever).
Cesarean births at least have a valid reason for being as breech births can kill but circumcision is freaktarded.
That might be a personal opinion, but it pissed me off at age 15 when I realized that not everyone had a scar.
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Thoth what happened with the baby?
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Cesarean births at least have a valid reason for being as breech births can kill but circumcision is freaktarded.
Cesarean births should be an option only for emergencies. But nowadays they are pushed on many parents. I agree they can save lifes though. My sons heartbeat dropped down to 50 during my nearly 43 week check up, I never went into labor, he had to come out right this second.
My son is not circumcised. I found this video http://youtu.be/UAGNnqyNidY (http://youtu.be/UAGNnqyNidY)
and it broke my heart. I don't even need to know any scientific facts about pros and cons. I only need to know that nature intended men to have a foreskin and that I could never see my baby getting hurt like that.
I hate it when pro circs try to argue with benefits.
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Hi Suiren, Mom's like you are my heroes!
I love your new avatar pic, what a gorgeous family you have!
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Hi Suiren, Mom's like you are my heroes!
I love your new avatar pic, what a gorgeous family you have!
Thanks!
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Suiren AND Ferocious are heros!
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Hi Suiren, Mom's like you are my heroes!
I love your new avatar pic, what a gorgeous family you have!
Thank you! And thank you Dorothy too. We just try to parent gentle and natural. I'm not a fan of a lot of standard parenting advice.
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I like the new pic too. What is your signature???
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I like the new pic too. What is your signature???
That is the anglo saxon rune poem - 11. I like the German translation better btw., it seems more accurate.
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Hi Suiren
I will look up the German translation. I love runes. Have you ever used them?
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I have written and read runes, but not rune magick if you are referring to that. :)
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I draw runes from a bag and read there meanings to have their council. What do you mean? Is what I'm doing called rune magic?
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Cesarean births should be an option only for emergencies. But nowadays they are pushed on many parents. I agree they can save lifes though. My sons heartbeat dropped down to 50 during my nearly 43 week check up, I never went into labor, he had to come out right this second.
My son is not circumcised. I found this video http://youtu.be/UAGNnqyNidY (http://youtu.be/UAGNnqyNidY)
and it broke my heart. I don't even need to know any scientific facts about pros and cons. I only need to know that nature intended men to have a foreskin and that I could never see my baby getting hurt like that.
I hate it when pro circs try to argue with benefits.
Me too, thx for the support.
And I agree with Thoth, you got a fierce lookin' crew there!
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I draw runes from a bag and read there meanings to have their council. What do you mean? Is what I'm doing called rune magic?
Ahh! Now I understand. Yes I think that would be considered rune magick. I knew someone who did this.
I don't personally, just know what letters they stand for and translate them.
gc
Thank you! :)
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/german-circumcision-ruling-alarms-jews-muslims/article4416555/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/german-circumcision-ruling-alarms-jews-muslims/article4416555/)
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Merkel jumped in somewhat disgracefully to make sure that religious circumcision would not be prosecuted by the courts despite the recent ruling. I could understand it if people had to wait until 18 in order to get circumcised voluntarily but, as a helpless baby with no rights? That's just sick. Indeed, there have been claims re long-lasting psychological effects occurring as a result of such early circumcision.
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I see that the rather gay Judaic custom of sucking the baby's penis during circumcision has been banned in New York due to the contraction of herpes by several babies as a result:-
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baby-dies-herpes-virus-ritual-circumcision-nyc-orthodox/story?id=15888618 (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baby-dies-herpes-virus-ritual-circumcision-nyc-orthodox/story?id=15888618)
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I see that the rather gay Judaic custom of sucking the baby's penis during circumcision has been banned in New York due to the contraction of herpes by several babies as a result:-
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baby-dies-herpes-virus-ritual-circumcision-nyc-orthodox/story?id=15888618 (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baby-dies-herpes-virus-ritual-circumcision-nyc-orthodox/story?id=15888618)
Sorry but what?? It WAS legal? -X
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Sorry but what?? It WAS legal? -X
Yes, it was legal for ages, until it was discovered that circumcised babies were dying from herpes.