Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Off Topic => Topic started by: TylerDurden on April 23, 2015, 06:48:28 am
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3049022/The-island-dangerous-visit-Mysterious-Sentinelese-tribe-rejected-outsiders-60-000-years-try-kill-sets-foot-land.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3049022/The-island-dangerous-visit-Mysterious-Sentinelese-tribe-rejected-outsiders-60-000-years-try-kill-sets-foot-land.html)
Now, I have no idea if their lifestyles are exactly the same as in palaeo times as so many modern hunter-gatherer tribes have clearly changed their practices quite drastically since the start of the Neolithic era, but it is quite possible, at first glance, that these hunter-gatherers are the one genuine palaeo tribe we should be emulating!
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Given the lack of contact beyond a small number of photos showing them to be nearly naked, with javelins and bows and arrows and what looks like some bowl/basket-like thing they use to gather water, what would you emulate?
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The problem is that they kill anyone who arrives at the island. There's no way to study their diet.
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Bingo!
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Nitpicking on my words. Honestly! I was just enthusing about a possibly genuine palaeo tribe. I had often pointed out in the past that modern HG tribes all had certain non-palaeo practices such as raw dairy consumption or whatever, so finding a tribe that is presumably still "palaeo" is unusual, to say the least
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How did they estimate 60,000 years?
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How did they estimate 60,000 years?
The figures are likely arbitrary and come from vague guesses based on the out of africa theory.
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They pulled the 60k figure from out of their ASS!
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They pulled the 60k figure from out of their ASS!
So it seems. It could be 3000 or 100,000. Only genetic studies and archeological evidence would tell for sure. Meanwhile, nobody is getting near enough to find out, I guarantee it.
If humans do ascend as a result of Moore's Law, I imagine these people might be left completely alone forever, to repopulate the Earth. LOL
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Since Cherimoya is right that there's no way to study the diet and lifestyle of the isolated Sentinelese, what group(s) do folks think is the best (not perfect, of course) example today that can be studied, which would enable "emulating" them, as Tyler put it, or at least maybe learn some tips from them (and not necessarily do everything exactly like them, which probably wouldn't be possible for most of us in modern societies anyway)?
I'd also be interested in people's reasons why a particular group makes a good example. Feel free to consider and explain any relevant evidence and factors, such as studies/research, your own genetics/ancestors, what foods/activities are available in your area, and also what might make sense for other people with different genetics and locales, if you think a different diet/lifestyle would be more appropriate for them, and so on.
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Just imagine the marvellous lifestyle of these islanders. In a delightful island of abundance, not a care in the world, plenty of seafood, going back to Nature etc., the only disadvantage for me would be the horrible heat and the inevitable mosquitoes. Ah well, I guess I was born a 100,000 years after my time, I should have been one of my Neanderthal ancestors on those beautiful Ice-Age glaciers.
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Do we at least know what foods they have access to? Fruits veggies and sea food?
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Do we at least know what foods they have access to? Fruits veggies and sea food?
I would suspect that seafood forms a majority of their diet. Ah, this states that they eat "seafood, honey, plants, seeds, and coconuts":-
http://www.traveltoads.com/andaman-and-nicobar/food-and-culture/ (http://www.traveltoads.com/andaman-and-nicobar/food-and-culture/)
They are also known to eat coconuts,turtles and small birds:-
http://www.apisrilankan.com/world/last-known-isolated-tribe/ (http://www.apisrilankan.com/world/last-known-isolated-tribe/)
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awesome! i hope everythings raw! i wonder what uncooked turtle taste like ???
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awesome! I hope everything's raw!
It's very unlikely. Virtually impossible if they've mastered fire, and since they can build bows I am pretty sure they can also make fires. Since cooked food is addictive, they must be cooking at least a part of the food they pick.
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Cool. Thanks for the links, Tyler. It seems that scientists have been observing them from afar and also learned things from semi-modernized Andamanese as well as from past contact before the most remote people cut off contact. This is particularly fascinating:
"Initially thought to have been badly affected by the tsunami on Christmas 2004, it was soon revealed that the islanders had moved to higher ground before disaster struck – almost as if they knew the giant tidal wave was coming. " http://www.apisrilankan.com/world/last-known-isolated-tribe (http://www.apisrilankan.com/world/last-known-isolated-tribe)
It has been reported that some wild animals sense tsunamis, hurricanes and earthquakes before they strike. I wonder if these wild people share some ability with these other wild creatures?
I also found these reports:
"All we know is that the Sentinelese are hunter-gatherers; they do not farm. They live on fruits, fish, tubers, wild pigs, lizards and honey." http://www.odditycentral.com/travel/north-sentinel-island-the-worlds-hardest-place-to-visit-2.html (http://www.odditycentral.com/travel/north-sentinel-island-the-worlds-hardest-place-to-visit-2.html)
"Life continues day to day, tending fires from past lightning strikes, hunting wild pig, gathering fruits, tubers, fish, crabs, honey, grubs and the eggs of turtles and seagulls."
http://old.himalmag.com/component/content/article/280-The-Sentinelese-of-the-Andamans.html (http://old.himalmag.com/component/content/article/280-The-Sentinelese-of-the-Andamans.html)
"They hunt pig and turtle and fish with bows and arrows in the coral-fringed reefs for crabs and fish, including striped catfish-eel and the toothed pony fish. They also gather fruits, wild roots, tubers and honey." http://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes/jarawa (http://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes/jarawa)
"They live in groups of about 40 to 50 people, in a hunter gatherer lifestyle, eating berries, pig, monitor lizard, fish and other wild foods." https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/the-jarawa-onge-and-sentinelese-of-the-andaman-islands (https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/the-jarawa-onge-and-sentinelese-of-the-andaman-islands)
"They gather and eat the vegetation that surrounds them, e.g., berries, tubers, plants, coconuts and other fruits, and wild pigs" https://prezi.com/5fbfqbtxp8qo/the-sentinelese-people (https://prezi.com/5fbfqbtxp8qo/the-sentinelese-people)
"The ocean is a very important source of food for these secluded islanders. They utilize a variety of “home-made” spears, harpoons, nets, and dugout canoes to aid them in their quest for dinner. As a whole, the Sentinelese appear to be a healthy and thriving community which is in part due to their good diet (which includes seafood, honey, plants, seeds, and coconuts). Another contributing factor may be their healthy and active sex lives which was documented by Indian Anthropologists during a “contact” expedition in the 19070?s." http://www.seathos.org/tag/sentinelese-people/ (http://www.seathos.org/tag/sentinelese-people/)
"The Jarawa ... get their food from the surrounding forest and sea. Their food items include Wild boar, big monitor lizard, crab, fish, sea curdle, eggs and molluscs like trouchus, turbo and bivalves. Wild jackfruit, a small fruit (tale), tubers like potato (anima) and arum (cheuba), are also eaten. The Jarawas relish honey (lauba). Meat is roasted or boiled, fish and molluscs boiled. They neither add salt nor sugar to their food. The Jarawa are totally unaware of alcoholic drinks or any narcotic." - G. K. Ghosh, Tourism Perspective in Andaman and Nicobar Islands, 1998, p. 65, https://books.google.com/books?isbn=8170249783 (https://books.google.com/books?isbn=8170249783)
I have heard that jackfruit is very tasty.
This is about the last survivor of another group of traditional Andamanese people called the Bo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_people_%28Andaman%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_people_%28Andaman%29)):
"Boa was born in the jungle of the northern Andamans and grew up in traditional society, learning to gather wild potatoes and hunt for wild pigs, turtles and fish."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1248754/Last-member-65-000-year-old-tribe-dies-taking-worlds-earliest-languages-grave.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1248754/Last-member-65-000-year-old-tribe-dies-taking-worlds-earliest-languages-grave.html)
This is about another Andamanese people, the Onge, who are fairing poorly since contact with civilization:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6I6L8b6mQs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6I6L8b6mQs)
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I doubt humans have any earthquake-sense. Most likely, they saw wild animals cowering away from the beach and just followed them inland, imitating them.
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I have heard that jackfruit is very tasty.
Sure, it is!
I doubt humans have any earthquake-sense. Most likely, they saw wild animals cowering away from the beach and just followed them inland, imitating them.
That's quite possible, but who knows? What would be the threshold differentiating "wild humans" from wild animals?
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That's quite possible, but who knows? What would be the threshold differentiating "wild humans" from wild animals?
Well, wild humans do have extra brain-power compared to wild animals, which might confuse things. Wild animal species also have all sorts of instincts and senses that we humans do not have such as magnetic sensing, electronic sensing, echolocation, ability to see in the infra-red or ultraviolet spectrum and so on.
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Well, wild humans do have extra brain-power compared to wild animals, which might confuse things. Wild animal species also have all sorts of instincts and senses that we humans do not have such as magnetic sensing, electronic sensing, echolocation, ability to see in the infra-red or ultraviolet spectrum and so on.
Or maybe "do not use". A very good friend of my parents seems capable of electronic sensing, as he once visited my room and casually advised me to move my bed at least 10cm from the power sockets, as it might trouble my sleep. And not in the "I've heard that it's bad" way, but rather in the "I see/feel that it's bad" way.
Yes: some animals can effectively distinguish colors, some not, some have a milder "broader" sense of smell, others have a more specialized but intense smell...to each animals its particularity. Some skills are of course shared among several different species.
I don't see how extra brain-power would confuse things. The contrary would be true.
A confused, polluted brain, however...
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Oh, and about echolocation :) (more like 8))
Blind man uses echolocation like a dolphin - Extraordinary Animals - Series 2 - Earth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IKT2akh0Ng#ws)
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Extra brain-power might mean too much emphasis on the frontal lobes and not enough on more primitive parts of the brain where extra senses might reside.
I am extremely dubious of the echolocation claim. For one thing, most so-called "blind" people can actually see things, albeit mainly blurred shadows and the like. Real blindness involves total death of the optic nerve so that no information at all can reach the brain.
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I am extremely dubious of the echolocation claim. For one thing, most so-called "blind" people can actually see things, albeit mainly blurred shadows and the like. Real blindness involves total death of the optic nerve so that no information at all can reach the brain.
Dolphins actually have very good eyesight, it doesn't stop them from using echolocation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin#Senses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin#Senses)
"Most dolphins have acute eyesight, both in and out of the water,"
Bats aren't blind either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat#Other_senses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat#Other_senses)
"Although the eyes of most microbat species are small and poorly developed, leading to poor visual acuity, no species is blind. Microbats use vision to navigate, especially for long distances when beyond the range of echolocation,"
So these blind people claiming they can use echolocation are quite believable. At least to me.
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Human echolocation has been known and formally studied since at least the 1950s.[1] In earlier times, human echolocation was sometimes described as "facial vision".[2][3][4] The field of human and animal echolocation was surveyed in book form as early as 1959.[5] See also White, et al., (1970)[6]
1. Richard L. Welsh, Bruce B. Blasch, online Foundations of Orientation and Mobility, American Foundation for the Blind, 1997; which cites S. O. Myers and C. G. E. G. Jones, "Obstable experiments: second report", Teacher for the Blind 46, 47–62, 1958.
2. Raymond J Corsini, The Dictionary of Psychology, Psychology Press (UK), 1999, ISBN 1-58391-028-X.
3. M. Supa, M. Cotzin, and K. M. Dallenbach. "Facial Vision" - The Perception of Obstacles by the Blind. The American Journal of Psychology, April 1944.
4. Cotzin and Dallenbach. "Facial Vision": The Role of Pitch and Loudness in the Location of Obstacles by the Blind. The American Journal of Psychology, October 1950.
5. Griffin, Donald R., Echos of Bats and Men, Anchor Press, 1959 (Science and Study Series, Seeing With Sound Waves)
6. White, J. C., Saunders, F. A., Scadden, L., Bach-y-Rita, P., & Collins, C. C. (1970). Seeing with the skin. Perception & Psychophysics, 7, 23-27.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_echolocation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_echolocation)
More Daniel Kish stuff:
Blind guy riding a Bike - It is possible - Real Life Batman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyRpdrJKmFI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyRpdrJKmFI)
Teaching the blind to navigate the world using tongue clicks: Daniel Kish at TEDxGateway 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob-P2a6Mrjs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob-P2a6Mrjs)
So is anyone motivated by the Sentinelese example to try some new foods? Wish I could try jackfruit. Have been keeping my eye open for that for years. Francois' recommendation has further piqued my interest, as I know he has impeccable taste.
I tried durian fruit not long ago for the first time and didn't care for the imported Thai variety that's available in my area.
I haven't tried grubs, seagulls or turtles yet. I wish I had thought to try one of the countless gecko lizards in Florida. One dude reported geckos to be tasty: http://able2know.org/topic/160097-1 (http://able2know.org/topic/160097-1)
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I would NOT eat seagulls if you live in the states. I live in San Diego and there are thousands at the beach. Their diet consists of whatever humans decide to throw away.
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Yeah, I’m not itchin’ to try seagull meat myself, :) even though I don't live near a really big city like San Diego. I’ve seen an Eskimo boy of the past portrayed as hunting seagulls in a film, but those would have been more pristine.
So, Tyler, now that we have a rough idea of the Sentinelese diet, what do you think of it? Do you still think it's sufficiently genuine-Palaeo to be worth emulating, or approximating?
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So, Tyler, now that we have a rough idea of the Sentinelese diet, what do you think of it? Do you still think it's sufficiently genuine-Palaeo to be worth emulating, or approximating?
Change all foods to raw and it is certainly RAWpalaeo. I personally would prefer a diet of raw wild pig/boar/wild turtles combined with lots of raw shellfish and some raw herbs like raw, wild garlic/radishes etc.
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And if some of the foods are cooked, then it would classify as regular (aka "cooked") Paleo, yes?
Have you eaten turtle?
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And if some of the foods are cooked, then it would classify as regular (aka "cooked") Paleo, yes?
Have you eaten turtle?
No, I have never eaten turtle, raw or cooked.