Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: TylerDurden on May 05, 2015, 12:55:51 am
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3066381/Is-superfood-honey-FAKE-jars-manuka-sold-world-produced-New-Zealand.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3066381/Is-superfood-honey-FAKE-jars-manuka-sold-world-produced-New-Zealand.html)
Manuka honey is often mislabelled as being raw in the UK. It is also mostly fake, not being manuka honey at all, judging from the article. What I mean is, we have to be more and more careful about the provenance of our raw foods, whether animal- or plant-based.The food-prodcuers just love to lie to us all the time.
In the UK, to certify honey as being so-called "raw", all one has to do is heat the honey for "only" a short period to a temperature below 80 degrees Celsius(!) and it can be labelled raw!
What we need is a time-worn method to determine the difference between grassfed and grainfed without having to buy it first, etc.
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raw hone is usually bubbly
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I find that raw honey tends to dry up my mouth immediately, much more so than pasteurized honey. That's how I tell them apart.
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I could never tell the difference. When I ate raw heather honeycomb, I was fine until I started eating too much of it, after which I got a burning sensation in my mouth. I got this burning sensation in my mouth always after eating any so-called raw , liquid honey from a bottle, which is why I suspected they were never raw.
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I think once pure honey has been heated to a certain temperature, it will never crystallize, while pure raw honey will always crystallize after some time. I don't know if this is reliable for telling them apart, or how hot they have to be heated to create enough damage to prevent crystallization from ever occurring. And I'm sure soon they will come up with some chemical that makes heated honey crystallize anyway.
In the meantime, and until I find a better way to tell them apart, I will only buy honey that is already crystallized.
As a personal experience, a friend and I used to buy honey from a shady supplier who was selling what she claimed was organic honey, and it would always come already crystallized. Once in the summer, after a week or two of temperatures ranging from 35C to 40C (95 to 104F) in the city (likely lower in the countryside, but we didn't ask where it was coming from, so it may have been somewhere where temperatures got a bit higher than that), we ordered four 1 kilo jars and they came in liquid form. When asked about it, the seller said it was just because they had harvested it that week and that it would crystallize quickly if we put it in the fridge. That was 6 months ago, and the two I got never crystallized. My friend ate his anyway since he's not that into raw and he was having it with tea anyway, but he agreed that the taste was different and worse. I think that maybe they were exposed to the sun during or after extraction during those hot days, and that that may have heated the honey to the point of no return. Or maybe just temperatures as low as those 40C (104F) in the shade are enough to destroy it's ability to crystallize. Or maybe it was a coincidence, and while this honey was heated more during extraction, it had nothing to do with the weather and the temperatures required for this to occur are much higher.
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In Austria, organic honey is a big thing but actually raw honey is impossible to get unless you know a beekeeper personally. I have found a cheapish source of raw honey from Germany so that's OK. They promise that the honey is like it is in the hive, ie with propolis and pollen in it. They also claim to extract the honey only at the average hive temperature(c. 22 degrees Celsius), as opposed to doing it at the extreme 40 degrees Celsius level limit allowed for raw honey producers.
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Do they have a website? I'd like to learn more about how they are extracting it at such low temperatures.
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Some unheated raw honeys relatively high in fructose take a very long time to crystallize, which I have posted about before. Honeys that are not prone to rapid crystallization include tupelo, fir, pine, basswood, acacia, neem and sourwood tree honeys. Some require more than a year to crystallize and white tupelo honey reportedly never crystallizes. (http://www.floridatupelohoney.com/tupelofacts.cfm (http://www.floridatupelohoney.com/tupelofacts.cfm))
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Do they have a website? I'd like to learn more about how they are extracting it at such low temperatures.
This is all I found:-
http://happygorilla.de/product_info.php/akazienhonig-roh-500g-p-93 (http://happygorilla.de/product_info.php/akazienhonig-roh-500g-p-93)
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How much honey do you guys eat? Its like a twice a year thing to have a mouthful of it here. Some of the local organic farmers at the farmers market will sell comb they cut themselves and I trust that its totally raw other than where the hot knife cut the edges, they dont have the budget or time for tools to do otherwise. If i couldnt get that it wouldnt really matter, I dont live where it makes sense for honey to be part of the diet.
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Good thing you came up with this thread. I remembered now I have some wild honey comb in the freezer.
After eating the wild honeycomb with the baby bees in them I do believe this is how nature meant for us to eat honey.
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How much honey do you guys eat? Its like a twice a year thing to have a mouthful of it here. Some of the local organic farmers at the farmers market will sell comb they cut themselves and I trust that its totally raw other than where the hot knife cut the edges, they dont have the budget or time for tools to do otherwise. If i couldnt get that it wouldnt really matter, I dont live where it makes sense for honey to be part of the diet.
I go several months without any honey, then eat 2-8 tablespoons a day for a couple of weeks. Rinse and repeat.
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If i couldnt get that it wouldnt really matter, I dont live where it makes sense for honey to be part of the diet.
What do you mean? Do you say that because you live somewhere temperate?
The honey available to you is local, isn't it?
I'm not necessarily saying that it is indispensable, but it doesn't make sense to me to deny yourself such food, when in season. Such a prized food, too. Just remember to keep aware of the sensory stop, and acknowledge the fact that the signal may (or may not) be milder than with other more common types of food*, which could lead to overeating.
*(in regard to Dominique Guyaux's observations of the dietary senses http://www.guyaux.fr/images/memoire_guyaux.pdf (http://www.guyaux.fr/images/memoire_guyaux.pdf) <warning: it's all in french)
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having only seen a handful, maybe even only three, wild hives in my life, i cant imagine id ever be able to source it for myself in much quantity, and that it would be a rare treat in a more wild, natural life. i guess i am similar to cherimoya kid in that i eat quantities of it for a short period, maybe even only a day or two, and then am done. its definitely not something i would want to eat daily, or monthly even. i do find that it seems to fill its specific, ultra nutrient and calorie dense niche and has some intense calming and strengthening qualities. this post only made me curious about the honey eating habits of people on the forum, and it just seems odd to obtain honey from afar and eat it regularly, or to eat honey regularly in general, espseically if you cant source it locally.
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This is all I found:-
http://happygorilla.de/product_info.php/akazienhonig-roh-500g-p-93 (http://happygorilla.de/product_info.php/akazienhonig-roh-500g-p-93)
Were you able to confirm that Happy Gorilla's honey is truly raw? How do you fare with it (any side effects or benefits?) and how is the taste?
Can you recommend any English-language sellers of raw honey?
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Were you able to confirm that Happy Gorilla's honey is truly raw? How do you fare with it (any side effects or benefits?) and how is the taste?
Can you recommend any English-language sellers of raw honey?
No idea, I have not tried it yet but plan to next month. No idea re english-language sellers either as I am long gone from the UK.
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http://www.wildabouthoney.co.uk/ (http://www.wildabouthoney.co.uk/)
http://www.wildabouthoney.co.uk/products/raw-arbutus-bitter-honey-1-kilo (http://www.wildabouthoney.co.uk/products/raw-arbutus-bitter-honey-1-kilo)
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http://www.wildabouthoney.co.uk/ (http://www.wildabouthoney.co.uk/)
http://www.wildabouthoney.co.uk/products/raw-arbutus-bitter-honey-1-kilo (http://www.wildabouthoney.co.uk/products/raw-arbutus-bitter-honey-1-kilo)
Thanks Jessica. Is the arbutus bitter honey your favorite? It looks like they are out of stock. Have you tried the eucalyptus honey?
I see that the Portugese arbutus and eucalyptus trees/shrubs are evergreens. I've been noticing that evergreen trees/shrubs tend to produce healthful foods, with claims of benefits for the immune system and aging. The bitterness and health benefits (http://www.mr-loto.it/nutrition/arbutus.html, (http://www.mr-loto.it/nutrition/arbutus.html,)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257634 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257634)) of arbutus berries made me wonder if the tree/shrub was regarded as sacred, as the rowan tree with its bitter medicinal berries was. Sure enough, it was: http://www.theoi.com/Flora2.html (http://www.theoi.com/Flora2.html)
Eucalyptus raw honey is another one that reportedly tends to crystallize slowly, along with longan and leatherwood. Arbutus honey reportedly crystallizes faster.
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ive never tried any of there honey paleophil, it was just a coincidence that i came across that page so i thought i would post it.
i dont eat honey all that often and, to be honest, i am not a fan of anything other than
http://shop.nativeseeds.org/collections/frontpage/products/shf500 (http://shop.nativeseeds.org/collections/frontpage/products/shf500)
http://shop.nativeseeds.org/collections/vendors?q=Sahuaro%20Honey%20Farms (http://shop.nativeseeds.org/collections/vendors?q=Sahuaro%20Honey%20Farms)
which is produced on my friends farm down in cascabel arizona. the farm is very remote and full of ancient mesquite and suhuaro cactus, producing the most delicate, deliciously sweet and creamy honey ever. i havent had any since i lived down there but i can tell you it is of the best quality and nothing since has quite compared. which is probably why i dont eat more honey. i cant afford it, but if i could i would buy a few jars to stock up on.