Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Science => Topic started by: TylerDurden on January 08, 2016, 08:20:45 am
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3388976/Suffer-allergies-Blame-Neanderthals-Genes-inherited-ancient-human-relatives-immune-systems-sensitive.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3388976/Suffer-allergies-Blame-Neanderthals-Genes-inherited-ancient-human-relatives-immune-systems-sensitive.html)
Note how the cited proportions of Neanderthal DNA in various modern humans has risen since a few years ago! In other words, the Neanderthal portion of early modern man DNA may be far higher than previous claims.....
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Are they insinuating neanderthals are not adapted to earth conditions?
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Are they insinuating neanderthals are not adapted to earth conditions?
No. I just think it is another feeble excuse to attack Neanderthals and suggest falsely, like so many times before, that Neanderthals were somehow "inferior" to modern humans. Any suggestion that Neanderthals were equal or superior to early modern man would directly contradict the absurd Out of Africa theory.
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Why would Neanderthal being equal or superior to Homo Sapiens contradict the OoA theory? I thought the theory was just about Sapiens leaving Africa quite late, nothing else? Besides, any serious paleo-anthropologist recognizes the fact that modern man has some percentage of Neanderthal DNA in him, especially people of Eurasian descent.
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Why would Neanderthal being equal or superior to Homo Sapiens contradict the OoA theory? I thought the theory was just about Sapiens leaving Africa quite late, nothing else?
No, the out of africa theory proponents had always stated in the past, as though it were a Biblical fact, that early modern man had never ever interbred with the Neanderthals or any other hominid subspecies - indeed, that was one of their 2 main points. It was only until after recent DNA discoveries in the last decade or so, that out of africa proponents had to admit that at least half of their theory was wrong. Other studies have shown that Neanderthals had at least as advanced a culture as early modern humans, in terms of tool-use, burial rites etc. etc. The out of africa proponents have always tried to claim that Neanderthals etc. were all infinitely inferior to humans in all ways which is why they supposedly died out. This never made any sense to me, as , taking average brain to body-size ratio into account, Neanderthals were likely more intelligent than even Cro-Magnon-era/Early Modern Man.
Besides, any serious paleo-anthropologist recognizes the fact that modern man has some percentage of Neanderthal DNA in him, especially people of Eurasian descent.
Well, people of non-Subsaharan-African descent, anyway, judging from scientific sources.
The point I was making, though, is that multiregional hypothesis advocates such as Wolpoff had stated for decades in the past that modern man was actually the result of various (so-called) "apemen" subspecies interbreeding with each other and that recurrent attempts to portray Neanderthals as being somehow "inferior" are not based on real facts.
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Neanderthals DID die out because they couldn't adapt. Likely there was something deep in their individual character and their culture that made them unable to change in response to the presence of the new invaders from Africa (homo sapiens sapiens) and the change in climate.
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Will white Europeans die out and be replaced by north Africans and middle Easterners?
Maybe the neanderthals were too multicultural and sucked at reproducing.
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Neanderthals DID die out because they couldn't adapt. Likely there was something deep in their individual character and their culture that made them unable to change in response to the presence of the new invaders from Africa (homo sapiens sapiens) and the change in climate.
That is what out of africa advocates have been claiming for years. The trouble is that all the various OoA claims made, such as that Neanderthals were stupider, incapable of speech, unable to hunt properly etc. etc. have all turned out to be quite false. A more solid claim is that Neanderthals might not have been immune to various diseases brought in by other hominids. Plagues have wiped out many past civilisations, no matter how much more technologically-advanced some of these were compared to others.
Another, more plausible theory has been put forward, namely that Neanderthals were more intelligent but had fewer children due to the harsher climate etc. they lived in, compared to other hominids, and so were simply outbred.
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Will white Europeans die out and be replaced by north Africans and middle Easterners?
Maybe the neanderthals were too multicultural and sucked at reproducing.
No, because every population reduces its birth rate once its women gain more power in society, and Western European culture will not tolerate the same treatment of women that is common in the Middle Eastern Muslim populations. The Muslims are still a tiny minority, and they will assimilate. There might be a few more ugly incidents, but they will.
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That is what out of africa advocates have been claiming for years. The trouble is that all the various OoA claims made, such as that Neanderthals were stupider, incapable of speech, unable to hunt properly etc. etc. have all turned out to be quite false. A more solid claim is that Neanderthals might not have been immune to various diseases brought in by other hominids. Plagues have wiped out many past civilisations, no matter how much more technologically-advanced some of these were compared to others.
Another, more plausible theory has been put forward, namely that Neanderthals were more intelligent but had fewer children due to the harsher climate etc. they lived in, compared to other hominids, and so were simply outbred.
The last article I read pointed out that Neanderthal culture appears to have been very set and unchanged for hundreds of thousands of years, based on the extremely consistent nature of the archaeological record of their living sites over hundreds of thousands of years. Their culture just didn't evolve nearly as fast as human cultures tend to, was my understanding.
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The last article I read pointed out that Neanderthal culture appears to have been very set and unchanged for hundreds of thousands of years, based on the extremely consistent nature of the archaeological record of their living sites over hundreds of thousands of years. Their culture just didn't evolve nearly as fast as human cultures tend to, was my understanding.
The big problem with the above claim is that it has been shown that the Neanderthals developed a complex culture long before that of early modern man. That shows a higher level of intelligence and a greater creativity. For them to then somehow stagnate afterwards does not make any sense. Also, early modern humans had no additional extras at the time which could explain them surpassing Neanderthals. Indeed, only in the Neolithic era, later on, did early modern humans start to become even more complex.
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No, because every population reduces its birth rate once its women gain more power in society, and Western European culture will not tolerate the same treatment of women that is common in the Middle Eastern Muslim populations. The Muslims are still a tiny minority, and they will assimilate. There might be a few more ugly incidents, but they will.
They aren't. That is why sharia courts are becoming more and more common in the UK. As one extremist Islamic cleric in Norway pointed out, those populations which deprive women of their reproductive rights are the ones projected to overpopulate the globe in the next century. Subsaharan Africa, which is not even mostly Muslim, is set to explode in numbers by 2050, for example.
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They aren't. That is why sharia courts are becoming more and more common in the UK. As one extremist Islamic cleric in Norway pointed out, those populations which deprive women of their reproductive rights are the ones projected to overpopulate the globe in the next century. Subsaharan Africa, which is not even mostly Muslim, is set to explode in numbers by 2050, for example.
They will assimilate or they will DIE. They haven't NEARLY the numbers, organization, or weapons to even begin to fight back against a determined White population, dude. And everybody knows it. LOL
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The big problem with the above claim is that it has been shown that the Neanderthals developed a complex culture long before that of early modern man. That shows a higher level of intelligence and a greater creativity. For them to then somehow stagnate afterwards does not make any sense. Also, early modern humans had no additional extras at the time which could explain them surpassing Neanderthals. Indeed, only in the Neolithic era, later on, did early modern humans start to become even more complex.
It's possible to be intelligent while still set in your ways. Since there was a stable climate in Eurasia during the last Ice Age, unchanging culture that was well-adapted to the enviroment was naturally-selected for. When the climate changed, Africa's castoff freaks (who were obviously more open to change than either the Neanderthals OR the Africans that stayed home) were able to invade and adapt faster. I suspect the genes that produce innovation died out among the Neanderthals long before the end of the Ice Age. They were useless under those circumstances, I'd guess.
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They will assimilate or they will DIE. They haven't NEARLY the numbers, organization, or weapons to even begin to fight back against a determined White population, dude. And everybody knows it. LOL
Let's see if you are correct on this prediction in a few years or decades.
The problem is... do whites still have the balls.
What I do think will happen this 2016 is this:
http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/11/tet-take-two-islams-2016-european-offensive/ (http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/11/tet-take-two-islams-2016-european-offensive/)
Tet, Take Two: Islam’s 2016 European Offensive
(http://gatesofvienna.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/parisriots4.jpg)
Already started with the new year 2016 with 1,000 barbarians raping, groping, robbing Germans in Cologne and other cities.
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I find the term oversensitive immune system vague and this article shows how very little modern science truly understands the total scope of what the immune system is and the totality of all its functions.
The theory is predicated upon an idea that because neanderthals had lived in much more septic and harsh environments
compared to the emerging neo humans, that they evolved an overactive immune system which made them susceptible to allergies, and this was passed down to modern humans when they interbred.( Bullshit)
I have often wondered about the true dynamic of the human immune system as a driving force in evolutionary adaption. The current scientific model is an oversimplified and truncated cartoon caricatured myth, that doesn't come close to grasping the full power and magnitude inherent within the human immune system. I postulate that there is much more to the immune system than simply fighting off invading microbes and rebuilding of damaged and degenerate tissues. Within the larger scope.... the immune system modulates genetic expression, in order to bring the organism into alignment with an ever changing environment. It maintains a homeogeniality between the myriad of variant forms which interchange genetic information within an ecosystem .
The antigens produced in reaction to foreign proteins for example, are actually mutagenic substances which the immune system produces to induce epi genetic changes. What science has diagnosed as an "allergy" is in actuality a mutagenic immune response, in which the release of histamines, cytokines, antigens, ect are reacting in accord with the natural order and are serving a vital function. This whole notion of allergy's being an immune overreaction is a gross oversimplification.... the allergic reaction is exactly as it should be, generally speaking, the body knows no ideology and reacts to foreign proteins with the appropriate response as best designed within the genetic code. Allergic reaction could be seen as the catalyst by which adaptation to aberrant material which is unfamiliar to the previous forms...out of the allergic response the immune system engages in a progress of learning by which it can alter genetic expression to best cope with adverse situations.
This by no means...means that the adaptations are 100% successful, or that they occur without negative consequences.....In extreme cases where the entire diet is transformed within a short period there is monumental genetic upheaval, and many traits have to be sacrificed or transformed....when intrinsically alien and aggravating proteins, mutagens, carcinogens, endotoxin, etc is imposed upon a group of people, without any previous immunity, it may take multiple generations of suffering and there could possibly be many positive attributes which must be sacrificed in order to become equitably adapted to a point where the immune system returns back to homeostasis... be it humans to wheat...or a koala bear to eucalypti.
Modern humans with "throw back genes" whom are exhibiting allergic "overreactions", (if there is any validity to it at all) could signify a positive phenomenon of active resistance to aberrant environmental conditions... The fact that their immune system is fighting something is a good sign, and if the proper understanding was applied then it may be possible to eliminate the underlying causal factors, and return the body back to homeostasis.
Another (far out) theory regarding modern human disease being responsible for the overtaking of neanderthals and the other forms of human at the time, is that of the proactive mutagenic weaponized viral antigens evolved by the most highly adaptable emergent hominids, mutilated the DNA of the other sub species to the point where only those whom interbred and aligned themselves with modern humans survived. Much in the same way how native Americans where decimated by small pox, and the ones who survived the ordeal interbred with the invading population. Its possible some subgroups like Neanderthals being isolated for hundreds of thousands of years, and having no previous exposure, were hit hard by the viral antigens of a highly evolved biological phenomenon, which remains a mystery to science.
Not only is the human immune system endowed with great power to modulate genetic expression, but it may produce powerful engineered viral antigens capable of infecting and altering the genetic expression of others within the breeding range. This could serve a number of different functions, such as to bring into closer genetic viability separate subgroups of humans. In the same way mothers milk passes on antibodies, these viral antigens could be part of a higher level of cooperative evolution, by which an individual once exposed to mutant antigens can spreed the genetic alteration and modulation to all others within the breeding population. Successful modulations of this sort helps facilitate interbreeding of once divergent subgroups into more highly evolved unified forms.... and unsuccessful ones are weeded out through natural selection.
There is indeed much mystery within the systems of biological life, and the human immune system may be just as important a factor in our ascension from the lower animals as is our mind...these two forces may in some as yet to be discovered way be working interconnectedly in accord with a higher intelligence.
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Let's see if you are correct on this prediction in a few years or decades.
The problem is... do whites still have the balls.
What I do think will happen this 2016 is this:
http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/11/tet-take-two-islams-2016-european-offensive/ (http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/11/tet-take-two-islams-2016-european-offensive/)
Tet, Take Two: Islam’s 2016 European Offensive
(http://gatesofvienna.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/parisriots4.jpg)
Already started with the new year 2016 with 1,000 barbarians raping, groping, robbing Germans in Cologne and other cities.
The Holocaust is within living memory. Every race on this planet is only alive because white people didn't see fit to exterminate them. Seriously, we do genocide better than anybody. We industrialized that stuff. LOL
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They will assimilate or they will DIE. They haven't NEARLY the numbers, organization, or weapons to even begin to fight back against a determined White population, dude. And everybody knows it. LOL
There is no determined White population. Whites nowadays are trained to hate their own kind for no valid reason, unles they avoid brainwashing by the Liberal media.
I increasingly like the Muslims. They are the only ones with any guts, willing to fight for their beliefs, they have solid family values, even in this decadent age, frown on alcohol/drugs etc.. Only drawback is the inbreeding aspect. Ah well....
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It's possible to be intelligent while still set in your ways. Since there was a stable climate in Eurasia during the last Ice Age, unchanging culture that was well-adapted to the enviroment was naturally-selected for. When the climate changed, Africa's castoff freaks (who were obviously more open to change than either the Neanderthals OR the Africans that stayed home) were able to invade and adapt faster. I suspect the genes that produce innovation died out among the Neanderthals long before the end of the Ice Age. They were useless under those circumstances, I'd guess.
Except that the Neanderthals existed for 100s of thousands of years(700,000+) in an age of differing climates which often changed suddenly:-
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nerc130k.html (http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nerc130k.html)
The point is, like I said, there is no innate difference in culture or behaviour between early modern man and neanderthals that can explain how the former superseded the Neanderthals. Early Modern Man had no access to more advanced technology or a superior culture or whatever than the Neanderthals, until c. 30,000 years later when the Neolithic era began and agriculture got invented. Agriculture etc., arguable arose out of increased domestication/increased organisation of humans, not because of any increased intelligence. Indeed, the transition to agriculture appears to have led to a large decrease in average human brain-size, in tandem.
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Seriously, we do genocide better than anybody. We industrialized that stuff. LOL
This shows a distinct lack of historical knowledge. The Chinese managed to wipe out maybe as much as 100,000,00 Chinese during the Taiping Rebellion alone and killed many, many other millions in other rebellions and civil wars throughout history, the Mongols wiped out as much as 70,000,000 people in their time, the Jews under Lenin, Trotsky and then the Jewish deputies under Stalin, such as Genrikh Yagoda head of the NKVD, were responsible for the mass slaughter of many tens of millions of Russians from 1917 to Stalin's death in 1953. So, I guess the Chinese, er, "win", as regards being the most prolific mass-murderers in history.
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War is not genocide. Wars leave survivors.
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War is not genocide. Wars leave survivors.
Not a valid assumption. According to that illogic, only the total wipeout of a population/group counts as genocide, in which case genocide cannot exist as a credible term since there are always survivors somewhere after any conflict.
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Not a valid assumption. According to that illogic, only the total wipeout of a population/group counts as genocide, in which case genocide cannot exist as a credible term since there are always survivors somewhere after any conflict.
Anyway...
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"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." Malcolm X
Its disingenuous for one to be convinced that the laws which govern the microbial life in their own struggle for primacy do not apply to the world of man...as is below so is above... its evident by whats going on in the world that the competing demographics act in similar ways to competing strains of bacteria in a petri dish, where if the balance isn't just perfect one strain will dominate the others.... there is an inherent knowing of the primal imperative of passing on ones own strain of divinity which is embedded into the self-hood of every living organism... but how this plays out is determined by the environment...our artificiality combine with the highly mutated ego generate concepts of religion and attempts at social control and engineering. These newly emergent forces have diverged from the natural order, and do not take into account the biological imperatives of what is necessary to deal with overgrowth and imbalances, which if were accommodated for "intellegently" would allow divergent populations comprised of multiple strains of human beings, giving the proper environmental conditions, to coexist and co evolve in symbiosis, much in the same way that other animal species are able to, outside of the petri dish of human prejudice and scarcity mentality