Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: ivanrk on March 26, 2018, 12:08:35 am
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I am doing a lot of reading to find out why i cant digest raw beef and after reading studies like this: Determination of free amino acids in cheeses:
www . agriculturejournals . cz/publicFiles/08676.pdf
i think hard cheeses can be compared to high meat or rotten meat and are much better than raw unaged beef.
For example brie cheese - from 100 gram cheese you have approximately 50 gram mousture and 25 gram fat and 25 gram protein of which 16 gram free amino acids per 100 gram cheese/160 gram free amino acids in 1 kg cheese according to study/. The remaining 9 gram protein are not free amino acids but probably peptides and not whole casein. So with the cheese you get predigested protein and saturated fats. With beef you get easy to digest fats and impossible to digest protein if you have low HCL in the stomach - like many people do. All those claims that raw meat is self digesting are total BS in my experience and aged cheeses may not be paleo and may not be even raw but are much better than raw beef because bacteria did the hard work to predigest protein to amino acids - the same happens in rotten meat but you can not buy rotten meat in supermarket.
It does not matter what is paleo and what your ancestors were eating, what matters is what you can digest and the truth is that raw beef is better than cooked beef but still very hard to digest because of collagen in connective tissue. I even think this collagen is as hard to digest as gluten. I think the problems that people have on zero carb diets are not due to the lack of carbs but dies to the presence of undigested protein in their diet - Aajonus say that cooked protein putrefy in the intestines but the same can happen with raw protein if you dont digest it. Unfortunately many raw paleo diet fans are just as brainwashed as vegans and make claims that have nothing to do with the truth - that ALL DAIRY IS BAD AND ALL RAW MEAT IS GOOD just because it is paleo. Yes in the meat there are proteolitic enzymes that work when you age the beef but dry aging beef takes weeks - this is not going to happen in our intestines - or if someone can show me a study that proves otherwise please show me this study.
Here is another study - Tolerability of a Fully Maturated Cheese in Cow’s Milk Allergic Children - they fed children with milk allergy with parmiggiano reggiano cheese and most children have no problem
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Allergies/sensitivities to dairy, however raw or pasteurised, are far more frequent compared to allergies to raw or cooked meats. Also, why would one dry-age raw meat for weeks? One could just wet-age the raw meat in a fly-proof container outside, with exposure to air, and the meat would be well-aged pretty soon except in a very cold winter, say a couple of days.... Plus, one could mince the raw meats. Basically, a tiny number of people might be so fouled up re their digestion due to past cooked diets that they cannot handle raw meats, but just leaving raw meat to soften and age is no big deal, then.
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My post above is specifically about beef and other red meats - chicken and fish are another story they dont have so much connective tissues and don't need so much stomach acid. You are correct about true allergies but the problem for most people is not true allergy - it is putrefaction of protein in the intestines. Most people are not allergic to gluten they just can not digest it to amino acids and it putrefy in intestines. Mincing red meat does not help much in my experience with venison and beef, marinating in vinegar seems to help somehow. Where can i get more info about this wet aging method? When i hang some beef outside it just becomes like jerky - it is even hard to cut it with knife. Maybe you are talking for some kind of fermentation of meat that will accelerate the process of aging?
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All I ever did was leave a box of raw meat in a plastic box(sealed) outside, and, as long as it was not winter, the meat became "high-meat" in 2-3 days max. Maybe UK/Austrian air is more humid.
Anyway, the vast majority of RVAFers find they digest all raw meats fine, fresh or otherwise. Putrefaction does not occur either as raw animal foods are close to 100% digested by the body. RZCers report very small amounts of stools, as a result.
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I´d like to jump into this. I have also realized that I have a hard time digesting raw beef. Even when I ground it and make tartare out of it. It felt really bad in the stomach. I recently realized that I have very very low stomach acid. So I think I know the reason for not being able to digest raw meat now. In the beginning I thought its the low bacterial count in the intestines, since digestion continues there. But even with daily portions of natural pre- and probiotics in form of honey, kefir, sauerkraut among other things nothing much has changed. If your food is not broken down properly by the gastric acids it has a hard time getting digested in the intestines. I think the particles are too big and that´s why food is stuck, hence ur bloated. So allthough raw meats are supposed to be easily digestible as AV said as well, this does definetely not count for ppl with low HCL.
I have also noticed that raw beef seems to be the worst to digest, so it makes sence when ivan mentioned the connective tissue. Thanks for the hint :) Any kind of raw meat in fact is hard to digest for me. The thoughest meats are the worst. I have however noticed that dry aged beef (4 weeks) was easier to digest. I read that the enzymes already broke down part of the meat during the dry aging process and that´s why I guess its easier digestible than fully raw. I have also experimented with High meats, beef and salmon, and allthough it seems that it makes food move that´s stuck in the intestines, you still need Gastric acids to digest it. The high bacterial count doesn´t give you additional Gastric acids (or HCL) it seems, it just gives you more bacteria for the further digestion in the intestines. And I think you need to be cautious with HM on low HCL. The gastric acid is suppose to kill the bad bacteria as well, so if you have low HCL or missing the other acids such as potassium chloride (KCl) and sodium chloride (NaCl), then I am speculating that your HM could maybe do some harm.
Regarding dairy I´d also like to mention that its fairly easy on me. Unless it´s hard cheese like pecorino. Raw cows milk seems to be a great aid when digesting raw meats, think thats because of the extra enzymes that it provides, however raw goat milk isn´t (im speculating that´s because goat is apparently alkaline forming, but u need acid forming for meats).
I came to the conclusion that any kind of hard food will be an issue if you have low HCL or missing gastric acid components. Same counts for salads with raw veggies. Out of curiosity I recently tried steamed chicken and fish, and voila, digestion was very smooth and food didn´t get stuck in the intestines. I think it´s because the cooking proccess makes certain meats softer (like fish) and somehow breaks down enzymes so your stomach has an easier time digesting it. Which is a bit contrary since enzymes are suppose to help with digestion and cooking would kill them? I don´t know. How are u battling your low HCL ivan?
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Your mileage may vary.
Cannot generalize.
Depends on the cheese, depends on the beef, depends on the person, depends on the person's current needs.
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I myself cant speak from the stance of having poor stomach acids, i can see how beef protien may be hard to digest for some people, but i would be weary of replacing it with even raw dairy products.
The one thing ive noticed that really speaks to me is the amount of tartar build up on my teeth, when i was eating dairy just occaisionally in the form of raw roquefort i would end up with a large amount of tartar where my gums have eroded a bit on the inside of my bottom teeth, but since cutting out dairy the tartar production has been drastically reduced.
Overall both ways my dental health has been good thats the only thing in my diet thats changed between my last two dental visits, i dont think raw dairy will give you cavities and rot in your mouth the way many non paleo foods do, but i feel it could cause a greater imbalance in your ratio of calcium to other minerals perhaps causing who knows what kinds of issues where ever in your body long term, maybe none other than tartar buildup but maybe many in all manner of places?
Overall i think raw dairy is a better food than cooked foods but i truly think if you can get your body to the point its capable of digesting raw meats efficiently youll be far better off in the long run.
As to how to get to that point hopefully theres someone with more experience than i, i would think at the least you should get pure fat sources of raw meat you can digest such as back fat or marrow or suet and then use those for most of your calories and at least minimizing your dairy intake that way.
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I use raw cheeses mainly just as an extra source of fat and calories as in the case of a triple crème and or as form of ketogenic resistance starch as in the case of harder cheeses. My stomach acid has lately been very high when hungry and this addition helps calm it down if that makes sense.
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why not add few tbls of raw pineapple or papaya to meat? they are full of enzymes
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How many topics like this https://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/maldigestion/ do you need to understand some simple facts about digestion. What you say is based on nothing more than your own opinion - despite the fact that this forum is full of people that complain of digestive problems even after going raw paleo - and it seems many people before me explained here why this happens and instead of pin their topics to help others you
argue with them. Please educate yourself how exactly is food digested by reading real science not books like AVs. And Aajonus claims were the same - just his own wrong opinion - he says that his vagus nerve was not working and so he had no HCL - this is just not true - i recently read a study that vagotomy does not stop stomach from producing HCL but interesting adrenalectomy do exactly that.
If you really want to help people in this forum - tell them to eat raw meats low in connective tissue like fish or organ meats - no red meat even raw - except maybe aged or marinated in vinegar or with HCL tablets. Raw beef not only does not help people with low HCL - it will make them much worse as happened with me and others. And what is worse - there are even studies that claim that even fish is not possible to digest without HCL - hcl is even more important than pancreas for digestion because without HCL pepsin is not working and pancreatic enzymes are never activated in the small intestine. The real cause of ilnesses are mineral deficiencies - not Aaajonus bs about toxins detox bla bla bla. There are studies that prove that minerals are missing in todays food including meat - so eating muslce meat will not help most people - organ meats - maybe.
Anyway, the vast majority of RVAFers find they digest all raw meats fine, fresh or otherwise. Putrefaction does not occur either as raw animal foods are close to 100% digested by the body. RZCers report very small amounts of stools, as a result.
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I am not a fan of Aajonus, only agreeing with him on some points. As regards your own opinions, like I said, most RVAFers have no problems with digestion of raw meats. Those who do , find things get solved with the use of predigested raw foods such as high meat. Only dietary orthorexics like Nicola keep complaining......
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How are u battling your low HCL ivan?
The problem is that i have no success in fixing low HCL. I will try cortisol in low doses because there are studies that show that administration of ACTH or cortisol hormone normalize HCL - i have low acth and maybe low cortisol, i tried thyroid hormone but hey dont help. I have exactly the same experience as you regarding foods. When you cook beef you fix the problem with connective tissues but you make other proteins undigestible - so the only solution is dry aging. What do you mean by this:
I have also experimented with High meats, beef and salmon, and allthough it seems that it makes food move that´s stuck in the intestines, you still need Gastric acids to digest it
- do you find raw salmon, raw chicken or raw cod fish hard to digest? Was the salmon frozen? I read in some book - some guy did experiments with HCL digestion and the result was that previously frozen salmon was not better from cooked salmon - i am now trying the find the book and get more info why this happens and if no frozen fish is better. I tried to put some small fish in a cup with water and 5 hcl tablets and the fish was degraded - i tried the same with 30 grams of raw beef - nothing happens - raw beef is undigestible with low hcl. I have to try the test with chicken and salmon.
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Good that we are in the same boat and maybe by exchanging thoughts we might fix it. This i what I found out about this topic:
a) We need to look at the digestion of the stomach. HCI is just a part of it. The whole system is called gastric acid or stomach acid. Therefore just going for HCI might not solve the problem. Gastric acid consists of hydrochloric acid (HCI), potassium chloride (KCI) and sodium chloride (NaCI).
- hydrochloric acid (a strong mineral acid), Foods that mimic and can "replace" HCI in my experience and own experiments are raw corn on the cob (worked great but is expensive in the long run), raw apple cider vinegar (I mix a small cup of water with 5 tbl of ACV and have it sometimes before, but most importantly with and sparingly after food), red wine vinegar (works similar as ACV in same dosage) and raw orange juice (even pasteurized). Then I tried beetroot juice (didnt work at all unless I added ginger), HCI from Thorne Research - Betaine HCL & Pepsin (caused constipation- its produced from pork maybe that´s why or the vegetable cellulose in the capsule was the issue) and Premier Research Labs Premier HCI (caused constipation too, its from a vegetable source- think beetroot but I´m not 100 percent, however easy to find out).
- potassium chloride (somewhat a salt as well). Didn´t do much research about that and I don´t think its the same as "normal" potassium.
- sodium chloride (salt, so there is a reason why some people suggest to eat salt with food so the stomach acids work better)
b) Red wine. I noticed that red wine from syrah (shiraz) and cabernet grapes work great for the digestion of any foods including meats, raw or cooked. In fact when I ate too much and things are stuck in the intestines (such as constipation), or my stomach digests way too slow, then this is what always helps. A glass or 2 will do the trick. Important to stick to acidic red grape varieties such as syrah and carbernet, not grape varieties such as merlot. Syrah worked best for me. That got me interested, so I looked at the composition of acids in wine and you find this:
1. Tartaric acid (found in grapes itself)
2. Malic acid (is in foods such as apple, especially green)
3. Citric acid (found in citrus fruits)
Since I didn´t want to drink that often I tried eating red wine grapes (the commercial ones not the proper red wine grapes), and I had non alcoholic red wine. Proved ineffective. Only real red wine helps. And the alcohol content in it too. It makes the stomach environment more acidic, so food digests better because of that too.
c) That whole wine subject lead me to do a cold pressed “gingershot” consisting (one portion) of 1 green apple (malic acid), half a peeled lemon (citric acid) and approx. a thumbsize of ginger (organic and unpeeled). That works wonders to aid and possibly “mimic” the stomach acids before and after food, or if some food is stuck in the intestines and doesn´t move. I always do a liter ahead, fridge it and have shot glass first thing in the morning. It could be that by adding a juiced grape and possibly salt it would be the best natural increasement of stomach acids, but I didn´t try that yet.
Other things that I noticed:
- What I found works good too and people recommended it is to drink 2 big glasses of still water before a meal, that prepares and increase the stomach acids better and that seems to work.
- I would refrain of drinking still water with foods, that will dilute the stomach acids, however sparkling water seems to aid digestion. I also wait like 30 min to 1 hour before I touch any still water after food.
- Freshly pressed (or worst but still effective - pasteurized) orange juice but NOT concentrate being drunk with food seems to mimic stomach acid pretty well too. When u drink it with a protein meal it digests better for me. I´d say a big glass does the job.
- Raw homemade kefir seems to aid or increase stomach acid too, since homemade kefir is carbonated. However only half of a small cup. Too much and it will need too much of digestion which can backfire.
It´s also very important to look at the causes of low stomach acid. They can be caused by stress, lack of sleep, alcohol and gluten plus overuse of grains (among others). I think the first look one should have when dealing with low stomach acid or HCI, is at the thyroid, since the thyroid apparently regulated stomach acid or HCI. So if u got a underworking thyroid (Hypothyroidism), u first need to fix that before trying to find something that mimics ur stomach acid. Otherwise it will be a never ending story.
I would be careful with cortisol, as far as I know it’s a stress hormone, so the more stress u have, the lesser ur thyroid might function and the lower HCI or stomach acids you might produce. But then again I might be totally wrong since I didn’t see the study.
What I am doing atm is this:
1. I switched from raw paleo to paleo, because like that I can digest food easier. Note that I only steam white meats, I don´t fry or deep fry them, not even in oven. White meats that seem to be easy to digest are chicken and white fish. So Salmon or Beef is out. Game I didn´t try, still need to experiment. I am aware that cooked food even on low steaming temps is not good, but I rather have my meat cooked and digested than raw and undigested. My acid is so low that I can´t even eat raw salads, I need to boil or steam everything to super soft otherwise I can´t digest it. Then once the HCI comes back (to try that I´d do the morning sodium bicarbonate test) i´d switch again to more raw foods including meats. I still have raw foods like raw juices and raw dairy including raw eggs, that seems to be ok.
2. Since low stomach acid or HCI can cause food allergies, hence auto immune issues (I got intolerant to many foods since I couldn’t digest the particles which went unbroken into the bloodstream which created sensitivies) I decided to do the AIP diet first, and voila no more bloating or pain. So the first step is to cut out all foods that cause issues and the same time increase stomach acid. Then gradually implement raw foods again.
3. When I have a big protein meal I take a piece of unpeeled ginger and bite in it once. I don´t chew it, just bite in it and let the juices go down my throat. That helps tremendously for digestion. Ginger in general is great for digestion
4. After eating I walk around 100 steps. That is recommended in Ayurveda as well “to get the food into the right places”. Then I would recommend to rest, so the body focuses the energy on digestion (and possibly secretion of HCI?), not on something else. Ideally you go into the sun and sit down, that speeds up digestion too I found. It could be due to the vitamin d of the sun exposure. Adding a non synthetic vitamin supplement d3 could possibly aid digestion, didn´t experiment in that yet. Or a natural food containing a lot of vitamin d, but it should be easy to digest. Again, I found raw milk a great aid here. Maybe due to the Vitamin D content? I dunno.
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I wanted to add something here. The importance of digestive enzymes. The book "Enzyme Nutrition" - The food enzyme concept by Dr. Edward Howell is an eye opener here. The first time I read it I had no clue about anything. Think its the best book about this subject. If I would re-read it (which I will) I´m sure I could fix things faster. Among many other suggestions it also mentions to eat raw pancreas and raw liver to fix digestion. I think User Sabertooth said raw pancreas helped him a lot. So that makes sense now.
Back to the subject. So, beside stomach acid, digestive enzymes are very important for general digestion. The main digestive enzymes (besides maltase, lactase, invertase, sucrase and so forth) are (not to be confused with food enzymes):
-Protease for Protein
-Amylase for Carbs
-Lipase for Fat
There are certain foods which contain these digestive enzymes. Kiwi, Mango, Pineapple, Papaya, Raw butter, Coconut, Avocado ....Now the one that I can remember which seems to have all 3 is Papaya (the greener the higher protease content) And I can confirm that. When I ate cooked beef (didnt do a raw meat diet back then) with papaya the digestion was incredible. Didn´t use anything else. So u might wanna try that but eat it with food, not after! I need to give it another try myself.
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There is something else that works very well. It´s called " Heidelberger´s 7 Kräuter Stern". It was invented by German naturopath Bertrand Heidelberger (1845-1925) and it´s a mix of 7 dried bitter herbs which aid, cleanse and restore stomach, intestine, pancreas, liver and bile. It´s not very much known outside the "German World".
Ideally you do it first thing in the morning and at spring time (so around now). I read that it can restore totally messed up livers from e.g. alcoholics. Even when people were about to have liver surgery this saved and restored the liver. The best way to take it is, first thing in the morning, to take a pinch full of the powder (tip of a knife) put it underneath ur tongue and squish it around in the mouth for around 5 minutes. Then swallow. Like that the bitters will go directly into the bloodstream and to the respective organs. You can also make a tea but the inventor did as described before. I had tried it myself some time ago sporadically and every time i had a heavy meat meal and i took a pinch into the mouth, my digestion was greatly enhanced and i noticed that my stomach was digesting much better! U can buy the stuff on the internet at amazon among other places. Ideally u buy it on amazon.de (not co.uk) otherwise the prices are a rip off. They sell mainly the organic version and u should not pay more than 15 euros. A 100g package will last you for ages.
Then there is something similar based on a liquid, again with bitter herbs and it´s called "Schwedenbitter" invented by Maria Treben (1907-1991). Also known mainly in the "German World". They sell it on amazon as well and they have a alcohol free version. I never tried it but the concept should be the same and it might work as good, or better? as the one above.
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In dogs with pancreatic insufficiency i know they treat them with raw meat diet or raw pancreas added to their kibble but i think by raw meat diet they mean raw organ meats not muscle meat. There are people that have their stomach removed due to stomach cancer for example - and if you search for post gastrectomy diet you will see that their recommended diet is meat and cheese - so it is possible to digest meat - they dont even use raw meat - so these people digest cooked meat fine even without stomach - no stomach juices - it seems the pancreas is more important for meat digestion. I have also seen studies that link hormones with pancreatic insufficiency in people. Most probably people with digestion problems have both low HCL and pancreatic insufficiency caused by low thyroid AND low cortisol. Without cortisol thyroid hormones dont work - i read thyroid forums for years and thyroid glandular or hormones works for very few people - cortisol is the missing piece - most people actually have low not high cortisol - they have high adrenaline but low cortisol. When you go to the lab to test your cortisol they test for total cortisol - which says nothing about free cortisol.
There are several books about the importance of cortisol like Safe uses of cortisol from William Gefferies and he even claims that thyroid is not so essential like cortisol.
Among many other suggestions it also mentions to eat raw pancreas and raw liver to fix digestion. I think User Sabertooth said raw pancreas helped him a lot. So that makes sense now.
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After reading a bit more about cortisol I tend to think that the issues of low gastric acids start there and in the glands. Once you have an issue there, the problem goes downwards to the thyroid which also affects digestion and gastric acids, to IBS, leaky gut, crohns, constipation and so forth. Pancreas play a huge role as well since they contribute the digestive enzymes. And pancreas aren´t activated properly when there is low HCI. Every time I eat something wrong I noticed some kind of pain in (I think) the pancreas area and with some foods (pasteurized joghurt) I start to feel cold, the coldness should be an indication for the thyroid. So i need to focus on them as well. I also noticed that when I am stressed I have very low HCI, but when I am off or abroad my digestion is great and I gain weight. So stress plays a major role since then your glands and cortisol/adrenalin changes which effect all systems downwards. I started a plan now, to finally get back HCI. It reads:
1. Specified AIP diet to stop inflammation causing the maldigestion which elevates stress levels hence cortisol/adrenalin. Decreased adrenalin/cortisol? aids sleep which is crucial for healing. Cooked (steam or braise) white meats only (chicken, turkey and quail, while white fish (no salmon or trout) being the most important due to Omega 3 which reduces cortisol, DHA and EPA which lowers inflammation) No raw vegetables, no raw salads, only cooked specific vegetables. Then fruits like cherries (most berries are out since they are too hard), banana, papaya, raw honey, certain raw herbs, raw cheese, raw goat kefir, raw eggs, animal fats like goose fat and tallow and possibly raw milk. Due to low HCI raw meats, raw fats, raw vegetables and raw salads are out since they can´t be digested due to the connective tissue and the cellulose which, however, can partly be broken down by cooking. However, I will try raw veal liver, that might be ok since its soft. White rice I need to check too. And quality salt with every food to aid gastric acid.
2. A knife point of the mentioned 7 Kräuter Stern herbs in the morning into the mouth for around 2 weeks to regenerate organ functions, specifically the pancreas since I need them for digestive enzymes for further intestine digestion.
3. Slices of papaya which has all the 3 major enzymes which helps digesting meat further and fresh orange juice for Vitamin C to lower cortisol and to increase HCI. Other fruits like pineapple have too much sugar content which should be avoided if you have candida overgrowth which again can be caused by too low HCI.
4. Mentioned gingershot (juiced lemon, ginger, green apple) in morning (after 7 Kräuter Stern) and also during the day. Ginger is a great anti-inflammatory and stimulates the digestive enzymes in the pancreas.
5. Ground Pumpkin seeds for magnesium and minerals. Either in form of aajonus pumpkin butter recipe to lower phytic acid or pure. Still need to check what´s best. Magnesium is crucial for cortisol levels and many other body functions. Thought of a supplement like mag oxalate but I rather go natural for now. Alternative would be water kefir with blackstrap (for minerals like mag) and raw cane sugar (for feed).
6. Liquorice tea from the stick (not in powdered form or teabags) for pancreas and natural sparkling water due to keep things moving. Too much liquorice isn´t good though. Red wine from acidic syrah or carbernet grapes in case food isn´t digested by the eve and acv with water eaten with meals.
7. Get as much sun exposure as possible for Vitamin D to increase metabolism. Excercise would be ideal too.
Let´s see how this goes. Ivan, When you try the low cortisol dosage as you mentioned, please report back how it went and how you administered it exactly.
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all pumpkin seeds are rancid ( from china ) except dark green ones. Pumpkin seeds unless soaked well, and slightly spouted will not offer the minerals you're hoping for due to inhibitors in the seed. Grinding pumpkin seeds will oxidize them and caused further rancidity.
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norawnofun, after MRI of the head - they told me that the pituitary is compressed - so called empty sella syndrome - empty sella can cause hypopituitarism - low ACTH - low cortisol. I bet many people have this problem and dont even know about it - pituitary can be damaged even after light hit in the head. Empty sella can be seen only after MRI and only if the rentgenologist is good.
I can tell you that even after MRI it is very difficult to diagnose secondary adrenal insuficiency or hypopituitarism - you need dynamic hormone tests that are rarely done - at least in my country.
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norawnofun,
I am not sure if i understand correctly but it seems low cortisol causes low potassium and low potassium causes low HCL
from this study https://onlinelibrary.wiley. com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.0954-6820.1961.tb00252.x
"K levels of plasma and cells is an important factor in formation of gastric secretion."
And by giving potassium to potassium deficient animal they were able to restore gastric secretion.
Regarding you plan - i can share my experience - raw dairy seems to need some intestinal brush border enzymes that ill people are missing - i mean lactose and casein are a problem - this can be fixed with fermentation or aging - clabbered milk or 2 year old cheddar for example. Raw goat kefir - i have problems with this - it is not enough fermented for me but maybe works for others. Raw pumpkin seeds - bad - no minerals in them unless grown in some exceptional soil and mineral in them are not absorbable, the same for molasses. Raw eggs - i think this is the most easy to digest food but some people say they have problem with them too - so i guess some enzymes with them will not hurt. raw veal liver - i read about some guy with pancreatic cancer - so he could eat raw liver and it made him feel good - it seems it is very easy to digest even with damaged pancreas.
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@van
I don´t touch chinese pumpkin seeds, even if organic. I don´t trust chinese foods. I buy austrian ones. These are all dark green (even the chinese ones though). When I was referring to the pumpkin butter I was referring to Aajonus recipe for it. He said that sprouting and soaking can cause issues too, that´s why he suggested the nut butter. Now whether he was right or wrong I can´t say, but it does make sense to me that his recipe can prevent some kind of seed oxidation since the nut butter consists of raw butter, raw eggs and raw honey. And honey can preserve a lot of things. Raw eggs can oxidize as well according to him, unless you add things such as honey. And these additives might prevent phytic acid in some way too. I don´t trust everything he says, but then again some things make sense. What alternatives for minerals would you suggest? I once found a website with hundreds of comments where people praised blackstrap molasses. Many of them reported e.g. that gray hair reversed or hair grew back, pains vanished and energy levels increased. Many of these ppl took it by itself or mixed in water/tea or food, which I wouldn´t do due to the sugar content. So I´d go for water kefir instead. And since water kefir eats the sugar of the blackstrap this could then be an alternative for getting minerals without much digestion (since its liquid anyway).
@ivan
I recently introduced sweet potatoes again into my diet, these are good for potassium levels, I also eat bananas regularly. That including coconut water I crave often. Might be a sign. Yesterday I had the raw liver by itself and it was very hard and chewy. That didn´t do me well. So next time I´ll do a pate and see how that goes. I also did clabbered milk a couple of times, but when things are too thick then it´s harder on the digestion for me. But everybody is different. I wouldn´t agree regarding the absorption of molasses at least according to the experiences that the people shared in the comments on that website. They were just too overwhelmingly positive. When I find it again i´ll share. Also, when I had the water kefir I felt good and food digested well in the intestines. I think what might help, as partly mentioned earlier, raw pancreas but maybe including raw glands. But since it´s impossible to get it here, maybe the powdered form would help a bit? Interesting regarding MRI. But I don´t have the money for that and I doubt it can be done here.
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Let me be upfront, I think AV in many ways duped a lot of people. I've said it before that he continually came up with prescriptions for people that seemingly only he could come up with so that He could heal them,, make a living by doing so. He loved honey and butter, who doesn't. Look into the effects of combining fats with sugar,, not good.
Good about the Austrian seeds, have only used them for thirty years as I was introduced to them from my trips abroad... If you want to believe him that honey is going to change the phytate level,,, but they are high in fat, and any fat tastes good with sugar.
I'm relooking at how I get my minerals too. Right now I'm experimenting with gettting them from animal products and not from other sources, so can't really help with ideas right now.
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Pancreas powder is dry concentrated raw pancreas. It should be better than papaya enzymes but i guess depends on quantity.
People that have their pancreas removed use pancreatin to digest their food.
You say:
When I ate cooked beef (didnt do a raw meat diet back then) with papaya the digestion was incredible.
Have you tried this with raw beef - cooks use papaya and bromelain to tenderise meat - it should work?
Regarding molasses - i read the same good stories about it - i eat a lot of it and the result was not good - but i definitely have problems with fructose so it may work for you. I think health benefits of molasses comes from copper but think raw liver is better source of copper because if there is copper in molasses depends on the soil where the plant is grown /and in our world all soils are depleted except some isolated countries/ while muscle meat may not have copper if the animal is not fed well the liver should have good amount of copper.
But since it´s impossible to get it here, maybe the powdered form would help a bit? Interesting regarding MRI. But I don´t have the money for that and I doubt it can be done here.
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I think I tried raw beef with papaya once. But I didn´t write down the progress or didn´t test it properly. And I don´t want to go back to raw meat until I am certain that I can digest it. A simple sodium bicarbonate test in the morning will show if HCI is up again. I also had to cut out some foods that didn´t do me well now. I tried the raw liver and digestion was a desaster. No different than red meat. Even in pate form. So everything red, including organs is out for me. I also noticed that certain black foods can´t be broken down properly in the stomach. Blackberries, mulberries, black current, black olives to be exact. Maybe it´s the acrylamide content in some, I don´t know. I also realized that stomach acid increases if I digest food faster. If food sits in the intestines for too long, the hunger feeling doesn´t come, hence your digestive juices won´t do the job properly when u have ur next meal. It´s pretty obvious actually. And in order to digest faster I need food to move faster through the intestines. Either with fiber or with fat. Eating veggies with meat doesn´t seem to do the trick. So i want to increase my intake of fats such as goose fat, olive oil and coconut oil. With raw eggs I´m careful atm. Raw Butter seems to do harm but joghurts work great. I think i reached my threshold for dairy for now. I noticed that when i have raw butter or raw cheese digestion was slowed down compared to without. For fiber I just started experimenting with ground oats together with coconut oil and it moves food very fast. I know oats are shit but if it helps it helps. Raisins and prunes do a good job too. About the pancrea powder I will see, first I want to go the natural way, if that doesn´t work i go for supplements. If u eat molasses just like that then u´d run into issues due to the sugar content. That´s why water kefir would be the way to do it, since the kefir grains eat the sugar.
How is your general digestion except with the gastric/stomach acid? Do things move well and fast? And are you normal weight, underweight or overweight?
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Norawnofun:
You mention red wine, and I have to say that other types work as well. I cannot drink red wine as it has a very stressing effect on me. I drink sometimes white wine or preferably mead (which can be made w/o sulfites), and they do work for my digestion, maybe not instantly, but it does has an effect.
I can also recommend Jun (honey based kombucha), but most people drink it too sweet, I usually drink small amounts, when it's become more like vinegar.
And yes, raw beef is hard to digest, but cooked meat, any kind, is really the worst for me. I get a bad stomach ache and feel heavy and depressed, like I have a stone in my stomach.
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And if you are going to eat vegetables, some actually are much easier digested when steamed, like zucchini for instance. Raw vegans eating lots of it get out much less calories than when it it's steamed/cooked, and get a lot of fibres to deal with, because they need to eat more amounts.
I used to eat lots and lots of veggies, I am kind of sick of them nowadays. Sometimes I crave raw cucumber, and then only the middle part, I discard the skin (well, its actually a fruit)... raw veggies/leaves/herbs/greens really block me up.
Thats why I really miss papaya, it was my staple food everytime I was in the tropics. The ones in the shop cannot compare.
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And, I have noticed that when I eat raw meat I get a more colour on my face, strange but true. I have also noticed that heavy cooked meat eaters actually have a pale, unhealthy colour on their face.
Concerning cheese: REALLY bad for my skin, get oily skin, or unsmooth skin. But if I eat a lot of animal fat, I don't get that for some reason.
And for me, eating cheese is really hard to control, I tend to eat too much of it, it is really addictive.
I don't get that with meat.
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White wine has no effect on me. Mead and Jun I never tried, will look into that. I did weeks of experiments and I pinned down the veggies that I can digest. I either steam or boil them. I eat them together with white meats. The more raw veggies are the lesser I can digest them, since they are too hard. And when food is too hard and u got low HCI then u (at least I) can´t break it down. Cucumber is a fruit that is the hardest to digest for me. Papaya seems to be ok, but the softer the better. Cheese and butter I totally cut out, but pasteurized joghurt does wonders. I will soon experiment with different types of magnesium since they have different effects as well. I noticed that coconut water, water kefir but also banana work very well too. I assume its because of their mineral contents, and that´s where the key to success might be.
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Concerning cheese: REALLY bad for my skin, get oily skin, or unsmooth skin. But if I eat a lot of animal fat, I don't get that for some reason.
What kind of cheese exactly is doing this to you? I have the same skin problems with most milk products especially heated and concentrated and i think most people with digestive problems will have the same experience.
But there is huge difference between different milk products. In my opinion their digestibility is:
aged raw cheese - aged 1,2 or more years - this should be practically predigested by bacteria and very easy to digest even for people with casein allergy
raw unaged cheese - aged less than 6 -12 months - concentrated casein and very difficult to digest for people with casein intolerance
raw milk from A1 cows - better that pasteurised but still have casein and lactose
raw milk from A2 cows or other animals - better that raw A1 casein
raw kefir - not much better than raw milk unless very fermented which i never could achieve with kefir
raw youghurt or clabbered milk - i think if you make it very sour this will be the most easy to digest food - the problem is that when i try to ferment clabbered milk for more that 2-3 days it gets moldy - i tried to add bacteria to raw milk and then let it clabber at 25 o C but still get moldy. There are video on youtube of people making clabbered milk and i see they get separation of casein and whey - some say only after 1 or 2 days - mine is not working. Maybe the temp is too low here or maybe the humidity is too high but i get a lot of mold on the surface of milk
pasteurised milk products - disaster for digestion
Most people buy some raw cheese like brie or roquefort or camembert and they think this is aged cheese - it is not aged it is hard cheese and not so fresh as mozarella but it is not aged cheese. Really aged cheese have sharp taste and is crumby.
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How is your general digestion except with the gastric/stomach acid? Do things move well and fast? And are you normal weight, underweight or overweight?
I am underweight and constantly hungry.
I tried to isolate the problem with HCL - i tried no protein diet and no fats- it is a disaster for me - i tried only fruits, then only starches like potatoes - i think they are worse than cooked meat. I decided to try fruits because i read about way diet and her claims that sugar moves intestines - but many people especially here in Europe have fructose malabsorption and eating fruits and some veggies is very bad idea - also honey.
Then i tried some raw fish called bacalhao - i think all raw fish is great but not easy to buy here - we have only frozen fish and when you defrost it nothing is left - 80% water and 20% meat. Yesterday i eat raw duck liver - it was disgusting but i eat it frozen - it was foye grass - so fatted liver from grain fed ducks - nothing to do with wild duck liver but this is what we have here.
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I am underweight and constantly hungry.
I tried to isolate the problem with HCL - i tried no protein diet and no fats- it is a disaster for me - i tried only fruits, then only starches like potatoes - i think they are worse than cooked meat. I decided to try fruits because i read about way diet and her claims that sugar moves intestines - but many people especially here in Europe have fructose malabsorption and eating fruits and some veggies is very bad idea - also honey.
Then i tried some raw fish called bacalhao - i think all raw fish is great but not easy to buy here - we have only frozen fish and when you defrost it nothing is left - 80% water and 20% meat. Yesterday i eat raw duck liver - it was disgusting but i eat it frozen - it was foye grass - so fatted liver from grain fed ducks - nothing to do with wild duck liver but this is what we have here.
In which country of Europe are you living?
In general, in most of the Europe you would be able to get the fresh lamb liver/heart/brain/organs. In my area, mostly Muslim Shops are selling fresh lamb meat and organs.
The quality differs. In summer, when lambs are out on the green fields, then the organs have good to acceptable quality. In winter months, quality is bad. Some times, quality also changes from one shop to another.
Nevertheless, despite inferior quality, one is able to eat them and they indeed helped me.
Later I found a source from a private shepherd in the nearby hilly area. Quality was much better there as compared to the Muslim shops, although he also fed them with grains in winter, but 100% grasses in summer.
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Regarding cheese I have made different observations:
Hard aged cheeses are harder on the digestion with low HCI since they are too dense. Parmesan for example is a no-go.
Raw A1 milk and A2 milk- i had tried both A1 and A2 (jersey) and even though the A1 has less fat content (which can be an issue digestion on low HCI), i found the jersey to digest much better which is a bit contradictive, but then again it could be due to the lower or no amount of the BCM7 protein. But there are some people which can digest A1 better than A2 due to lower fat. Also raw goat milk seems to be alkaline, so that can interfere with a inadequate acidic stomach (e.g. alkalosis), which I think I could have due to previous high intake of alkaline foods, hence i can´t digest animal protein well now. Today I had fish with sweet potatoes and baby chard, and the chard interfered with the protein digestion as it´s cellulose and alkaline. You can easily find out what food causes issues to digest when a) you burp it up naturally even after hours of finishing your meal or b) put the finger in and puke it out after some hours of finishing your meal. The food that digested easy shouldn´t be visible in the puke anymore. Whatever is left is an indication that the stomach couldn´t digest properly, hence you cut it out for a while.
Raw kefir - if its too thick it can be hard on the digestion (if you leave it in the fridge with a low amount of milk for like a week it becomes very thick,slimy and super sour). Very difficult to digest for me. The more "rinsing" the better. I don´t understand how you cannot achieve higher fermentation on kefir. Just leave it outside for a couple of days longer (don´t forget to mix regularly otherwise the top will have Mycodermia). Or/and lower the milk amount and put it in the fridge as mentioned above. That ferments it properly.
Clabbered milk - strange that the milk went moldy for you. I did quite some experiments with clabbered milk to get quark, cream and butter and left it out for way longer than 3 days (in the summer with high humidity) and it never got moldy. I put it in a 5 liter glass jar outside and sealed the top. I used raw conventional jersey milk, maybe A1 can get moldy. I don´t know. But pasteurized milk gets moldy when left outside for sure. Ur 100 % that u have pure raw milk?
Pasteurized milk - in yoghurt form works great for me. It always helps food to move. Rest like milk, cheese or cream I wouldn´t recommend.
Being underweight and constantly hungry goes hand in hand. Had the same. I was eating a lot and i lost more and more weight. The problem was overeating. When you do that most of the food passes undigested (on low HCI) to the intestines and the shaq´s there (likely worn down) won´t be able to absorb the nutrients so you won´t gain weight but you develop auto immune disorders like food sensitivities. Furthermore since your body doesn´t get the nutrients it needs you get a constant feeling of being hungry. Try eating smaller portions. That can be very challenging in the beginning since you want to eat more but try and eat half portions. You will gain weight again and your shaqs will have an easier time to digest the foods rather than overloading them with big amounts. I think it´s imperative to heal the intestines first with an AIP diet. Cut out all inflammatory foods which will heal your intestinal shaqs and once healed you gain weight and you can reintroduce the previously troubling foods again.
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I have had times when feeling constantly hungry and malnourished, despite eating more than usual.
Try to slow down your metabolism, try to find foods that are calming, grounding, nourishing and satisfying, WITHOUT being addictive.
Fruits are probably not a very good idea if you live in Europe.
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When I am craving cheese, usually I crave fats... Eating other fats usually works.
And: all that salt in cheese... I also notice that once I start to eat salt again, I get more and more used to it, and don't realise how bad it makes me feel.
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I used to crave cheese like crazy, but now I don´t touch anything else than yoghurt and sometimes milk kefir. I remember when I drank good quality raw cow´s milk my digestion was great. But atm I can´t get it. And I noticed that my body doesn´t want me to eat alkaline foods anymore, when I have meat with salad leaves or herbs, digestion takes very long. Guess it´s because acidic and alkaline foods don´t like each other when HCI is low or when your body wants to heal and produce more HCI again.
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Yes, snack on greens if you must, and eat meat and fat alone.
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Clabbered milk - strange that the milk went moldy for you. I did quite some experiments with clabbered milk to get quark, cream and butter and left it out for way longer than 3 days (in the summer with high humidity) and it never got moldy. I put it in a 5 liter glass jar outside and sealed the top. I used raw conventional jersey milk, maybe A1 can get moldy. I don´t know. But pasteurized milk gets moldy when left outside for sure. Ur 100 % that u have pure raw milk?
Pasteurized milk - in yoghurt form works great for me. It always helps food to move. Rest like milk, cheese or cream I wouldn´t recommend.
Once clabbered milk is made, then how long will it last in the refrigerator?
And if fresh cheese is made out of this clabbered milk, then how long will in last in the refrigerator?
Do you feel clabberd milk (from raw milk) to be better than yoghurt from pasteurized milk?
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I don´t recall the exact amount of days how long clabbered milk lasted in the fridge. But it was several days. I mainly made quark (similar to cottage cheese) and that I ate always quickly. When you put clabbered milk in the fridge then you just slow down further fermentation. I believe it would last 7 days, maybe more. Pasteurized (organic) joghurt is easy on my digestion since its mush and creamy, opposite to quark or cottage cheese which is a bit clumpy. Clabbered milk is sour and can become clumpy too, so with low HCI that needs to break down the bigger milk clumps can be an issue, so I would take it easy unless u put it in the blender to make it creamy. But with clabbered milk i didn´t have too much of a problem. Raw organic grassfed cows milk was the easiest to digest since its liquid, next would be organic pasteurized joghurt (never tried raw joghurt), followed by a little bit of kefir and clabbered milk. Proper cheese I never made so I wouldn´t know.
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And let's not forget some the bad stuff that can come with dairy:
- autism (problem with casein, found in both dairy and gluten)
- PCOS: polycystic ovary syndrome, much more common than one might think, many women do not know they have it. There has been quite a few studies linking dairy with it.
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And there is also a strong link between prostate cancer and dairy.
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Many other studies link dairy with breast cancer.
I don't miss dairy anymore, except maybe for goat cheese. But I also realise, how much it is in the mind, and the surroundings,
this can have an effect on what you think you like/need/crave.
My favorite chocolate 20 years ago was milk chocolate. I truly find that repulsive nowadays (but I am still a chocolate fan).
Also, I heard Asians (in Thailand for instance), think that many westerners smell strong just because of dairy eating.
I also read somewhere that when american indians would eat dairy, the others around them would not like their body smell.
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It's strange the power of the people around you can have on your own cravings/addictions.
When I started going to Thailand, I completely stopped eating chocolate, wasn't hard at all, it just happened. But then, after many years/trips, I started to hang with these raw vegans, new-ages nuts, who are totally addicted to chocolate, and then, just because it was around, and people around me where craving it, I also started to crave/eat it...
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I think we strongly need to differentiate between the types of dairy. I believe most of these studies are done on conventional pasteurized or UHT milk, since raw dairy still has such a stigma in the common and medical world. Many ancient cultures, remote area people and tribes, including several centenarian areas eat dairy frequently if not daily. But these people don´t eat conventional, grain fed, A1 breed, pasteurized or UHT milk. They mainly have raw dairy from Sheep, Goat and their cow breeds are mainly A2. I think their bodies have adapted very well to this type of milk and it doesn´t cause issues, instead it´s part of their staple diet. These cultures also eat gluten grains and still they liver long and comparably healthier than many "westerners". I think their genetics play a major role as does their whole environment. I agree about the malicious downsides of gluten, i experienced it myself, but for some reason they don´t have an issue with it. It could be because a) there is less or maybe no? gluten in their grain b) the body just got so used to it due to genetics and c) the staple diet they have might minimizes the damage of gluten.
I know there are people which can´t even tolerate raw A2, maybe because their system got damages a lot by the conventional milk, or their genetics simply doesn´t allow having it, or at this stage the body just doesn´t want it.
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https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/dairy-rivals-label-a2-milk-a-scam/news-story/e9faa2820882876b9372c2478baf3deb?sv=2882281defecc4f9414720dd983bc15b
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Link can´t be opened. It needs subscription. I know that you are very much against milk because of what you went through, but A1 and A2 breeds are definitely not a scam. I did way too much research about this topic. And needless to say, but rivals always like to discredit the competition (looking at the link text), after all they don´t want to loose business.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/a-tale-of-two-milks/514397/
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Thanks. But it doesn´t prove anything that A2 Milk is a scam.
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My problem is that I find any kind of fresh milk disgusting. My instincts tell me it is not a food I want inside of me. I want to gag, just by smelling it. Was offered just milked warm goat milk from happy goats eating only grass, but just could't drink it. But I enjoy raw meat, high meat, live grubs... It's is only if the milk is "processed" and made into a soft cheese that I could eat it.
But strangely, the last times I had raw goat cheese from outdoor animals, I didn't get that kick I used to. Probably because my body has discovered new other stuff that is more satisfying, as I have broaden my food selection, and have become more demanding.
If you don't eat for some time, (and used to eat "conventional" food) , and then you are offered a cracker, then that cracker will be totally amazing and delicious.
If you'd body is starved (not by the amounts of calories, but by all the other nutrients we don't get by eating a conventional/vegan/vegetarian/"poor" diet) then you can enjoy foods that aren't really optimal.
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Fat is for me the answer to not get dairy cravings, anything from lard, marrow, egg yolks, coconut butter, avocados, and also... raw cocoa butter which I find very satisfying. It also has quite a good percentage of saturated fats (60%), and does not speed up the metabolism like coconut butter. It's not that cheap, but when I look at the prices here in Germany of raw goat dairy, you get more for your money with cacao butter. And you avoid that all that salt in cheese.
And if you need to get more of good bacteria/fermentation, go for dry/aged meat/fish or high meat/organs, or combucha/jun, or stop using a fridge. It will happen by itself, if you are surrounded by good bacteria. People who fear "bacteria" are either paranoid or they need to clean up their system/environment, and the good bacteria will be around you naturally.
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If this is true it goes against all raw meat thing..
I thought it was supposed to be "the easiest thing for us humans to digest"
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Raw meat is easier to digest than cooked, but this rule doesn´t apply if you have low gastric acid / HCI.
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If this is true it goes against all raw meat thing..
I thought it was supposed to be "the easiest thing for us humans to digest"
It is for me. I can't tolerate plant foods in general. I don't really digest cooked lean meat well, and cooked/rendered fat gives me diarrhea. Raw meat I digest perfectly fine, and don't have any issues or constipation. Organ meats and the softer cuts of muscle are the easiest to digest, while some tougher cuts can be more difficult to digest, especially for certain people. Red meat (beef, veal, mutton, lamb, wild game etc...) is generally harder to digest than fish/poultry. I generally digest everything fine, except some tougher cuts of muscle which give me a more heavy feeling in my stomach, but that's all.
Generally, nothing applies to everyone. Perhaps the people that can't digest it as well, as norawnofun has already said, have low gastric acid. Perhaps they overeating, everyone has their own limit. Could depend on the specific animal or quality as well.
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Here is one very interesting study for lifesaving parmiggiano reggiano - it is even digested by infants. I found it why i lay at home recovering from my stupid attempt to eat raw red meat again:
Send to
Acta Biomed. 2008 Aug;79(2):144-50.
Intestinal inflammation in nursing infants: different causes and a single treatment ... but of protected origin.
Pancaldi M1, Mariotti I, Balli F.
Author information
Abstract
Three case histories of nursing infants suffering from different forms of intestinal problems, who underwent special dietary therapy in order to solve situations that would be difficult to deal with using the special artificial milk varieties on the market, are presented. These children were administered a homemade food consisting ofParmigiano Reggiano cheese seasoned for at least 36 months, rice or maize custard and tapioca, sugar, maize oil. In the first case the diagnosis of "widespread nonspecific acute colitis" was made compatible with "antibiotic-associated colitis" and Clostridium difficile was isolated from the feces. The second case, under the suspicion of cow's milk allergy, was fed by soya and hydrolyzed milk with persitent disturbed alvus with greenish feces and mucus. The third case was represented by a nursing child with persistent diarrhoic alvus after an acute episode with subsequent intolerance to rice milk. After the introduction of the food based on Parmigiano Reggiano cheese, all cases showed a rapid and progressive improvement of symptoms and alvus characteristics and were discharged with increased weight. The Parmigiano Reggiano cheese shows a high concentration of easily absorbed amino acids and oligopeptides like a hydrolyzed proteic preparation. As regards the lipoid component the medium and short chain fatty acids are directly absorbed in the bowel and immediately usable as a significant source of energy. Finally, another relevant characteristic of Parmigiano Reggiano cheese is the complete absence of lactose. The use of Parmigiano Reggiano cheese as a dietary therapy is appropriate not only for its high nutritional value, but also for its characteristics as a functional food that produces beneficial effects on health with regards to the gastrointestinal tract and the inflammatory problems resulting from alimentary intolerance, post-therapeutic antibiotic dismicrobism, or post-infective conditions. Moreover, its efficay on these pathologic conditions is further improved by the prebiotic and probiotic effects resulting from the oligosaccharides and the bacterial flora of this natural food product, only derived from the nature and the work of skilled artisans closely tied to tradition.
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I read somewhere that amino acids or peptides from parmiggiano and other aged cheese can restore digestive enzymes.
But in all studies like above they talk about cheese aged 36 months - this is not easy to find adn buy but i think the mark is 12 months - everything aged below 12 moths is not good. I read on this forum people try roquefort and feell bad - roquefort is more like fresh cheese aged 2 months only. Or gryere cheese - it seems hard but it is not aged - only 6 months. But grana padano and pecorino romano are longer aged - 12 or more months
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Thanks. But it doesn´t prove anything that A2 Milk is a scam.
A2 milk is not a scam but some people can not digest even raw A2 milk - and this guy here www.biohawk.com.au claims that ginger enzymes can digest both A1 and A2 milk
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A2 milk is not a scam but some people can not digest even raw A2 milk - and this guy here www.biohawk.com.au claims that ginger enzymes can digest both A1 and A2 milk
But who cares if you add this of that, the point is, why can't all these people digest it? Just listen to the signs the body is trying to give, and avoid it, simple
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How is ur gastric/stomach acid improving ivanrk? I have found out that I have a huge amount of parasites in my body since a long time, which I assume are the main culprit for the low gastric acid production. That including overgrowth of candida from eating too many fruits including dried. You can check yourself easily if u got an overgrowth of parasites when you look into your iris. If you see Radii Solaris or “Spokes” in you iris then this can be one method. I also think that many red lines (Somatids) in your sklera would indicate that as well. I have both in big amounts. Stool tests for several days in a row is another method to test. As I suspected that I have parasites some few weeks ago I started taking natural remedies first.
I started researching papaya seeds and came to this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17472487 After doing that including other things like eating garlic, papaya itself and certain herbs I think I activated the die off. Unfortunately I ate a lot of cooked eggs and I think the parasites feeds on that denatured satured fat. I started feeling really bad. Then recently I noticed that eggs and too much cooked meat were the main culprits so I cut out eggs. Then I bought a chemical dewormer (vermox) for 3 days and took that including papaya, raw crushed garlic, made separate teas out of clove, liquorice root, olive leaf, cooked with ginger and chewed fresh one among other things. I also drank a shitload of water. These were the hardest 3 days of my life I think. The detox was very intense. I saw different types of worms in my stool, in my vomit, i even burped them up! So I have an overload of them.
And as I noticed that eating eggs and cooked meats made things worse, I now eat mostly plant foods and I started a new cleansing program with wormwood, black walnut, echinecia, and lots of other things. I have a proper program now to get rid of them ALL. Whilst I believe that there are some beneficial parasites, too many bad ones or an overgrowth of candida can mess up everything in your body, including your gastric acid. I also started to take bee pollen after reading the immense benefits including instructions how to take and increase it SLOWLY
https://www.bee-pollen-buzz.com/how-to-take-bee-pollen.html
http://www.alternativescentral.com/beepollen.htm
https://www.mercola.com/article/diet/bee_pollen.htm
If your body is missing certain vitamins and minerals, like that you will not miss much if you can´t digest certain things. It´s the most complete food on the planet followed by organ meats. Important to put it under the tongue and let it dissolve there! Bee pollen helps against parasites too.
I already noticed the Spokes are gone in some spots, so I will continue the parasite cleanse till they are all gone. I did another body scan and I have some in the intestines and stomach as well, so if they are there and eat your nutrients you a) won´t gain much weight and b) your organs will never heal, you won´t become hungry enough so that proper saliva is produced which is needed for proper HCI. Anyhow, after my cleanse is complete or things are improving dramatically, I can write the full instruction including remedies that i took. But before you go further into your research why you might have low gastric acid, I strongly suggest you to look at your parasites first!
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caution, the fear of parasites can go on for some time, thinking that there are still more to get rid of. You might alternatively choose to simply get tested. Aggressive parasite worms like round worms can perforate tissues to evade caustic herbs etc. Drugs for these in particular simply anesthetize them so they can't wiggle back up into you, thus they get pooped out. People make tons of money and garner lots of readership when they sell and promote parasite cleansing. NOt to say you don't have them, but just it's easy to get caught on that wheel. I doubt your eye markings would clear that quickly.
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I am cautious and I know that some are beneficial. They don´t do the proper test here and I know I have them because I saw them in my stool, spit and vomit, I see them in my iris and I feel them. I can feel when they are present these shitters, especially in the evening they come out and in the morning. Also during the day. I get a bad feeling in the stomach and if its bad it reaches the area behind the neck impairing my thinking. Or I get the need to grind on my jaw. That can be an indication for their presence. Then when I take either coconut oil, papaya, raw garlic, raw honey (stopped for now), ginger, certain red wine varieties, bee pollen or certain herbal teas they get pushed down or die. All these are antiparasitic so it makes sense that they work instantly. Especially eating raw garlic. They take all my energy and they need to go. I will try every method to get them out. I don´t buy those cleanses anyway. I know it´s a lot about money making and these are full with additives and crap. I research and take what´s proven and what I know works from experience. Furthermore certain spokes either faded or shrinked, I don´t just imagine. It took a couple of weeks though. I know because I check my eyes nearly on a daily basis. When I finally get an iridology cam I want to document it.
One thing that I want to know is if at this stage it´s wise to eat raw meat and raw fats. Even raw milk. Since my stomach acid situation improved due to cutting out acids like ACV and lemon I want to eat it but I don´t want to make it worse. Apparently they love satured fats, when having cooked eggs it was horrible. Maybe raw would be better? Atm I feel best on a cooked and raw vegan diet, sadly. Then I had a white cooked fish yesterday and digestion was a desaster. I had to lie down for some time and the whole day was fkd.
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Ok, if you've actually seen them, go for it. But give yourself a time limit for how long you will take on the task yourself to expel them. Then if you still have them, collect some and have them analyzed and take the prescription drug to let you live your life fully without another thought of parasites distracting you.
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sound advice thx,but what do you think of eating raw meats during a parasite cleanse? somehow i have the urge to eat raw red beef, but i don´t want to aggravate the parasites. I´d also like to eat some raw fats with the raw meat. Do you know if they either speed up the cleansing of parasites or can impair it? I´m still undecided about that. There is no doubt about raw meats being superior, however I am not sure when it comes to a parasite cleanse.
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I don't know.s Wild cats in the jungle get parasites... I think whatever you eat will feed them. I would concentrate on eating as healthy as you can to build your own immune system.
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norawnofun - almost everything you write here is the same with me. Regarding saturated fats and not only them - low stomach acid comes with low pancreatic enzymes - we just can not digest fats unless they are raw - also i think some fats are short or medium chain and they just dont need digestion - they are directly absorbed in small intestine - but i think fat in eggs is not saturated - it is probably long chain fats also protein in cooked eggs is like gluten - not digestible. Just do some google search with the term - heat caused protein modifications and you will find a lot of info - heating not only destroy enzymes but change protein so even your enzymes can not digest is. I think unsaturated fats are long chain very hard to digest. I can tell you that there is a big difference between cow milk fats and goat milk fats - when you leave cow milk - the fat rises - this does not happen with goat or sheep milk - maybe cow's fats are long chain. I read somewhere that the protein in cod fish does not need stomach acid for digestion /not sure if they tested raw or cooked cod/- so if you cant digest it - i think the pancreas is not working as it should - but it is possible that when you cook the fish - the protein is changed so that it needs pepsin for digestion - i read somewhere this is what happens with gluten and soy protein - so i wonder is raw grains like oats will be digested by someone with gluten intolerance. Raw meat is definitely better than cooked but still undigestible for me - i tried to eat meat and took 10 doses pancreatin - it does not help - i have not doubt that the main problem is stomach acid and pepsin but pancreatin can help with fats.
sound advice thx,but what do you think of eating raw meats during a parasite cleanse? somehow i have the urge to eat raw red beef, but i don´t want to aggravate the parasites. I´d also like to eat some raw fats with the raw meat. Do you know if they either speed up the cleansing of parasites or can impair it? I´m still undecided about that. There is no doubt about raw meats being superior, however I am not sure when it comes to a parasite cleanse.
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There is no such thing as beneficial parasites - this is just another one of AV's BS. When animals have access to plain water and water from copper pipes they choose copper water - because copper kill parasites - i know this from dr. Joe Wallach - his specialty are minerals.
So raw liver is maybe the real superfood - i doubt there is another food that actually contain copper nowadays - maybe shellfish but definitely no plant foods because the soil is depleted in most countries. I read somewhere that you need stomach acid to absorb copper .
I have no hope to restore my stomach acid but i will be happy if HCL suplements do the job and help digest food. Several days ago i tried to eat beef and took 10 doses HCL unfortunately i was craving fats and ate 500 gram cream - the result was a disaster - the cream was not raw and i had to take a lot of pancreatin but didnt- now foods have enzymes with HCL, pepsin, pancreatin and ox bile in one capsule - next time i will know.
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Saturated Fats
Saturated fatty acids not only provide energy but also have structural and metabolic functions. Saturated fatty acids can also be synthesized in humans from nonfat sources or by ?-oxidation from unsaturated fatty acids (25).
Saturated fatty acids range in size from 6 to 24 carbons, but the most common in infant diets have 12, 14, 16, and 18 carbon chain lengths (Fig. 2 and http://links.lww.com/MPG/A474). Medium-chain–length fatty acids (C8–C10) can be absorbed to a large degree directly into the hepatic portal vein and transported to the liver, where they can be oxidized for energy (26). Medium-chain fatty acids have the potential to limit the oxidation of PUFA and LC-PUFA and to enhance the conversion of PUFA to LC-PUFA (27,28). In preterm infants, because of possible intestinal immaturity, facilitation of fat absorption through the inclusion of medium-chain fatty acids in the diet may be useful, but there is no demonstrated benefit for energy balance or growth (19,29). Adding dietary medium-chain triglycerides, however, has been shown to be beneficial in children with severe fat malabsorption such as intestinal failure because of short bowel syndrome or severe cholestatic liver disease (30).
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Thanks for all the extra info. Always appreciate. Things changed a bit for me here. Let me give u an update. Since a week I switched to a carnivore diet after watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGikB-54Lwk and soaking up all the daily posts from people turning their life around within a couple of days/weeks on https://www.facebook.com/groups/worldcarnivoretribe/ Basically I eat cooked meat, raw goat riccotta (very soft, not hard to break down), raw goat milk and homemade raw goat kefir, cooked and raw eggs and plus bee pollen. I also eat cooked liver. I initially used raw cows butter and raw cows cheese, but it impaired digestion so I cut it out, Raw cow milk I need to try again. Initially it helped a lot. I noticed that carbs were my main problem which was indigestion, bloating, constipation, inflammation, auto immune issues with foods and and and. So greens, herbs and veggies foods are all out, even veggie juice with exceptions mentioned below. Dairy and eggs still have carbs but very little so I eat them.
Basically I have 2 main problems. Parasites and low enzymatic activity paired with possibly low gastic acid. It´s easy to find out whether u got parasites when looking into your iris. If you have radii solaris (google) you can see. These radi solaris weels are fading away for me and my iris is clearing up, meaning becoming brighter. They accumulated throughout my shitty previous lifestyle.
I now strongly believe you first need to get rid of the parasites before any health can improve. Many people have them and they don´t know it. They are like pets, u feed them sugar and they are happy, leave u alone. Things can change when a) they start to eat more than they should, meaning they eat ur food away. The symptoms are malnourished, weight loss, bloating, constipation, mood swings, they impair the function of your organs (such as pancreas), they impair gastric acid, they surpress hunger and more..
So you need to a) kill them and b) shit them out. And cutting out the carbs is the way to go. Carbs=sugar, so if u cut out their food source they die. Its simple but that detox can be very heavy. They are dying like flies for me and detox was so bad I thought I´m not gonna make it. I see a lot of them in my stool, vomit and spit. Not as much as a couple of weeks ago but still there. Different shapes, different colors, different sizes. Eggs and worms. They are very active when I wake up in the morning and in the evening. The reason beeing, im now pretty sure, is that they move from the intestines and other areas where they are located up to the stomach in search of food. I know that because whenever I feel them coming, my appetite is supresses, I feel bloated and my stomach is unwell. Then i force puke and what comes out? Parasites. Almost always with a bit of food stuck to them.
Then when I force vomit them out (when I initiated the detox some weeks ago, see my previous posts), in the beginning I could count maybe 50 in one detox session which could last a couple of evening hours. The way to get them out is massaging your belly upwards so they come more up and u puke them out. Then ull puke automatically more and more for a couple of minutes. But just parasites. At least that´s how it is for me. Then once that is done I feel a light in my stomach and I burp. Then I feel hungry again, since they surpressed my appetite. If you think u cant vomit them out you need to push them deep down your intestines, so they have it harder to come up. Very sparkling water can achieve that, food or certain red wine grapes as I mentioned in my other posts. Red wine kills them REALLY effectively. Followed by ginger, honey, certain teas like sage, liquorice and bee pollen and many others too much to mention now.
So, enough of parasites. 2nd thing mentioned was pancreas, enzymatic activity and HCI as we already mentioned many times. Up until recently I took HCI tablets (2-3 with every meal) and different types of digestive enzymes. But after testing them on and off I can tell you they aren´t good. At least for me. Including ACV and all these other magical things. I found them to be bad for getting the body back into own shape. Yes, they might help but for me they made my body stop producing it´s own juices. After all most of these things are man made. They caused indigestion, constipation and instead of helping, they actually made things worse. So, since I cut them out a couple of days ago my digestion improved a lot. So did my HCI and digestive enzyme activity.
I´m on this carnivore diet since a week now and my body shifted. I can see that in my stool in the beginning first half of stool was bristol chart type 2 and 3 other half was a perfect type 4. The last couple of days my stool changed more and more to perfect type 4, today for the first time i only have type 4 after a week of carnivore and cutting out HCI and digestive enzyme tablets since around 4 days. I have more strenght on workouts, but the parasites are still giving me hassle, but at least I´m getting rid of them on a daily basis. I also noticed that eating more fatty cuts is the solution, solution to constipation and to shit out the parasites faster, hence heal the body faster. The faster you get rid of them the hungrier u will get since they will not surpress ur hunger anymore, so u will produce more digestive enzymes (especially in the mouth), so u will want to eat more and the more u eat the faster you heal.
Fatty additions like cheese, butter, milk, eggs, animal oil fats are never as effective as the fat from the meat itself. And dairy can be an issue for ppl (even raw). If dairy then Sheep, as it´s the highest in fat, low in PH and A2. See this chart here: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/pH-values-of-buffalo-cow-sheep-and-goat-milk-samples_fig6_312583378
For animal fatty cuts I recommend the below. But read this chart regarding Omega 6 here. As some meats like chicken are high in it so not good. http://www.lazaruswellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/EPA-DHA-Amounts-in-Fish.pdf it also gives you a very good overview of the highest EPA DHA foods which are good for ur brain.
Beef: All with the name "ribs" in it, or sometimes called cuberoll, tri-tip very high 77%, then porterhouse, top loin, t-bone, chuck eye. Mince beef (not lean) is good too.
Lamb: Mince or Lamb breast is high in fat.
Pork: Suboptimal. Bacon or pork belly is high in fat. I´d avoid pork most of the times since it´s fed shit. Wild boar belly/bacon would be great, but hard to get. But before u go for pork I recommend first reading: https://zerocarbzen.com/pork/
Chicken: Not the best. Low in fat. Chicken thights are the highest in fat but still way below beef. Also chicken is high in Omega 6.
Fatty fish would be: Salmon (farmed fattier but shittier), Sardines, Anchovies, Mackerel, Trout, Herring, Mussels. These have also good amounts of EPA and DHA. Anchovies are KING for EPA DHA
So, enough of writing. To summarize what helped me to improve my energy and strengh level, bloating, digestion, enzymatic activity and almost healed my long term should injury within only 1 week:
1. Carnivore diet with little carbs coming from raw dairy and raw or/and cooked eggs. No veggies or fruits except below. As alkaline foods will interfere with your protein and fat digestion. Salt and pepper as condiments. Bee pollen is a great addition, but should be taken as last thing in eve as it can trigger parasite die off which will decrease appetite, last thing u want in the morning as it will mess up ur whole day. I also recommend sparkling water first thing in the morning, then organic green tea after that and also as last thing in eve. It will help kill and push down parasites and improve gastric acids plus appetite. DON´T drink too much green tea. It can trigger a big die off and you will suffer for hours. 5-10 min before food freshly juiced gingershot made of ginger and green apples (50/50), that will push down parasites, increase appetite and saliva for further digestion of protein and fats.
2. With every meal I recommend drinking 1 cup (or more) of homemade kefir with whatever raw milk u want/tolerate. Kefir has the enzymes for digesting fats and proteins (lipase and protease) and gives you probiotics. U wont need those digestive enzyme tablets any longer. After food I also recommend biting into a ginger and letting the juices flow around in the mouth, let it touch the tongue. That will increase enzymatic digestion. Do NOT swallow it, don´t bite too much around it. It´s no chewing gum. Change from the right to the left side. After some time like 15 min exchange the ginger piece and do another one. I usually do that until my body says stop. Around 3 pieces is a good number. I found that this is far more effective than HCI or digestive enzyme pills. What I will try as well is swedish bitters after food, but the alcoholic version. the non-alcoholic was useless and caused issues, possibly because of the shitty additives.
3. I would avoid having lean meats such as most game meats like venison, rabbit, then chicken, duck (skin wont be enough) and so forth. Focus on the ones listed above.
4. Exercise, you will gain muscle, strenght and will increase bowel movements which will increase hunger. Youtube is plenty of quick home workouts
5. I eat 2 or 3 big meals a day until I am full. I stopped grazing and meals in between. Also after eating walk a bit and rest for a couple of minutes with the ginger in the mouth, Then take a walk or do some light excercise (still with the ginger in the mouth). Ginger helps a lot.
A week like that brought changes I didn´t see in years. Curious how the next weeks will be. Will update here. One last thing. I don´t drink still water or juices with meals, unless raw milk. But I did notice that proper sparkling water can make you eat more. Since it pushes food down so you are able to fit more food. And it also helps a lot when food doesnt move after lets say an hour or longer.
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If you're still dealing with parasites, i.e., able to puke them up, I strongly suggest you have them identified and take care of them with a prescription. Take care of them, and move on with your life. That's the advice given to me 40 years ago when I came back from india full of them.
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Beside natural treatments I have taken a prescription drug for multiple parasite strains. That didn´t get rid of them. I think I would need to poison my body with prescription drugs for weeks to get them all going. But then I can tell my health goodbye. I doubt that any pill or daily enemas will make them magically go away in a couple of days. Most importantly I see a big progress the way I do it now. I would see even more if I only eat meat without dairy or eggs not even pollen. That would speed up things a lot I think since I would absolutely cut their carb food source. I think there is a reason why people that only eat meats see their floaters go away within around a month. However, the detox might be unbearable. So far its going well, but who knows, might try meat only for some days if I wanna feel like shit again :)
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alright last post on this for me. Did you have the worms identified by a Parasitologist,, someone actually trained to identify and treat parasites? If you did, and they identified what type and gave the appropriate 'pill', I seriously doubt you'd still have any. Parasite drugs are VERY effective. Obligate carnivores can also carry parasites. I too am zero carb for some time, but I don't carry the belief that I'm protected from parasites.
Something to think about; what would your life look like ( and I'm talking about the stream of mental consciousness that You run throughout the day ) if you didn't have something to heal or eliminate? Too often our woes keep us from fully embracing the unknown.
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Van is absolutely right. There is a tendency for a small segment of the RVAF community to go in for dietary orthorexia. In the case of parasites, some erroneously believe in the fraud Hulda Clark, who believed parasites were in and all around us. From my own experience, anti-parasite drugs work quickly and efficiently, whereas herbal anti-parasite methods failed completely. I should add that most parasites are not suited to a human host but to other species, so tend to die quickly in a human host, plus, many parasites do not harm the host at all. I, for example, once had tapeworms which, except for the initial 3 days or so, had no negative health-effect on me thereafter. Granted, there are exceptions even with tapeworms, but these are rare, and easily treated with anti-parasite drugs.
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There is no such Parasitologist where I live. They are no professionals here in the first place. The multi purpose drug that I took might have been effective for some of them, but they are not effective for all of them. I also think we need to differenciate here. I think there is a big difference between parasites that you got from your travel, which lived in you for some days or weeks, compared to the ones which live in you for years and decades and got accustomed to you, your eating and bad health habits. IMO these are the ones that are the hardest to get rid of. Some of them can even get used to the parasite cleanses or chemical drugs that you take, making them less effective or worthless. Then of course there are certain things that can trigger them coming back all the time, especially if you have a weak immune system, low HCI, candida overgrowth and what not. Combined with polluted air, pets, water, pesticides, mold and so forth will make you chase your own tail. Therefore, I think cutting their food source and at the same time boosting your body is the way to go, as I can clearly see on myself now.
I also agree that you can´t be protected from parasites all the time. That´s an illusion since they are present everywhere. The question would be how long do they survive in the host, how healthy is that host and are they really harming or helping your detox. Also, herbal methods are far from useless as you claim. They might have not worked for you but for me they sure did. It was the papaya, papaya seeds, honey, black walnut, wormwood, oregano oil, garlic, ginger, green tea, liquorice, sage, red wine and what not that triggered the very hard detox symptoms and killed them in great numbers as I could see with my own eyes. The parasite drug never showed that effectiveness. It might have been your cure, but studies show that herbal things can indeed be very effective, needless to say less harmful than chemicals. However, if the host has a weak immune system, candia overgrowth, then the biggest chemical drug on the planet might not help, since your sick body invites them coming back time after time.